#grian discourse

[astrowarr]

every life series season has a villain, but not in the way you might think. it's always a symbol of some kind. it's not a person, but a concept, an ideal, an overarching force. that is, in every season except wild life

third life had circumstance. everything was new and hard to grasp, and no one knew what to do. the villain of third life was the world itself; think of the animal extinction, for example.

last life had brutality. both physically and mentally. it was rife with betrayal and isolation; reds had to abandon teams, and the boogeyman mechanic's paranoia forced everyone apart.

double life had love. love, and the fate it tangled itself in. it was a complex villain, but love killed them again and again, and rewarded the single person who didn't give in to it.

limited life had time. the passage of time itself was the enemy and everything was driven by that. they clawed their way to every last second, and time ate them all in the end.

secret life had the secret keeper. unyielding, unrelenting, unmoving, all-knowing. when the secret keeper forced them to do awful things, no one disobeyed, but hated it all the same.

wild life has grian. grian is representative of every wild card the world plays. he runs the command, and stops it at the end of the day. he is transparent about that. he accepts bribes for information, and unabashedly uses his knowledge to his advantage. he is Other. the players treat him the exact way they did the secret keeper; he's not a player like them this season, he's a symbol, and one of every awful thing that's happened to them at that

which is to say, wild life's villain is a symbol and an overarching force. it's just, for the first time, simultaneously a person, too. everyone else is realizing that too and are pointing their blades at grian, slowly but surely. it is SO fascinating

[hermitcraftx]

One big problem with Scar's recent tweet (the one stating him and Grian have to avoid each other due to lots of negative feedback) is the sort of unawareness on this website. Yes, CCs certainly don't step foot here nearly as much as other websites, but acting like it's solely a YouTube and Reddit problem is driving me insane.

For the past year most of Trafficblr has been nothing but negativity and complaining towards folks that post Scar and Grian together, complaining that they're overrated and that they're sick of seeing them together. Almost all of the "hot takes" and "discourse" that people post are just whining about how annoying and popular Grian is, and how everything is desert duo, and how they want to see other things.

And I've pointed that out. Several times! Few people listened! Mcytblr confessions is almost entirely negativity, I see rancid takes about Grian alone (not even MENTIONING desert duo or scarian) on a damn near daily basis. I've gotten hate asks saying things along the lines of "of course you post about Grian and Scar" and "I followed you for Joel, not scar". Popular fan artists and bloggers hopping on the hate train, bullying popular fanon concepts and canon concepts, saying they hate the angst, or that it's overrated, or that there's too much shipping and they don't like it anymore. People that like other MCYTers like Zedaph, or Big B, or Tango, or anyone and everyone under the sun all blamed Grian and desert duo for their lack of content and accused Grian fans of not putting enough effort into fandom. Effort! Into fandom! Like it's a requirement and not a hobby you do for fun!

And those exact same people are shocked right now. I'm going to pull you all close when I say this: fandom is supposed to be fun. It is not a job. Nobody is required to like certain things, and that applies to your dislike of Grian and Scar together, true... But the wave of hate the past year or so has been ridiculous. If someone only watches Grian or Scar, that's fine. They don't have to watch anyone else. If they only post about desert duo or scarian it doesn't make them shallow or basic.

If you are genuinely upset by this, please, I beg of you: take a break from fandom. There have always been more popular characters and pairings in fandom. That is a fact of life. If you are genuinely, seething, furiously upset about all the Grian and Scar, or anything in fandom, take a break. You have to remember that the CCs don't have to do this, and they are friends and people too, and the negativity you have towards your fandom make them think you hate it. While it's true the bottom of the barrel dwell in YouTube comments and on Reddit, I see a lot of negativity on Twitter and Tumblr.

Frankly, I'm pissed. And grateful we even have a life series anymore, with all the negative feedback they get on every little aspect of the life series. Let friends be friends, for fuck's sake. And if you feel you MUST post negatively about anything in the life series or group, I suggest you make like the DSMP fandom and add CC! or C! indicators. Someone on Twitter bemoaned they weren't complaining about "fanon scarian, not canon scarian" which I think is a roundabout way of denying they're two separate things. But I digress as that's not what this post is about. The point is is that those same people that were so eager to complain about Scar and Grian being overrated are awfully, awfully quiet now. For shame, do better, and have fun. It's Minecraft YouTube, not a job.

TL;DR: Traffic Twitter and Trafficblr both have problems with hating on Scar and Grian disproportionately and now that it's rearing it's ugly head, they blame YouTube and Reddit to absolve themselves of responsibility. Fandom is supposed to be fun!

[mayadoesfandomstuff]

Thinking abt the dream-grian buildmart copypasta and it's absolutely not lost on me that the reason why that copypasta even exists is definitely because dream just cannot fathom that a minecraft builder from a "family-friendly" server could be good enough to beat him at pvp like absolutely he stereotypes hermits as "not as good" at pvp compared to other people

[flurmitcraff]

I'm still so very sad about many things but also specifically about Mumbo taking the Sahara merch down from his store. I completely understand why and respect his decision, and i think the company that works with him does the designs to order so that minimizes wastage...but Sahara was one of my favorite hermitcraft projects ever and such an ambitious redstone design and all their season 6 shenanigans meant a lot to me.

I'm no stranger to still loving the *work* despite the terrible actions of one of the creators (orson scott card hates everything I am and Speaker to the dead is still a great book lol) but its evident Sahara means a lot to Mumbo, and it couldn't be easy for the hermits as Iskall was a member and friend for so many years. I don't mean any more speculation to this post other than this whole situation is upsetting and *doubly so* for the victims and Vault Hunters community that directly financed or were employed by him full time. This doesn't just concern fan culture but peoples livelihoods.

[logosbot-tm]

I'm not even a shipper but I did see a post (and several tbh) about Mumbo's death in wild life being turned into Mumbo being a rebound/replacement for Scar??? It's so weird even as a nonshipper I know Grian and Mumbo have been iconically Like That (and everybody knows it and jokes about it) for years. I'm convinced a chunk of this fanbase just skips through video

I will say that I'm not fully sure why this was sent to me, but yeah, I've seen it too. Gonna take off the shipping goggles for a hot sec.

(More below the cut...like a lot more, this ended up as a long ass ramble)

Mumbo's treatment within fandom is rather... odd, in my opinion. He gets pushed to the side a lot, he's treated as if he's pathetic (which yes, Ik that the "wet cat" thing is a joke, but when he's consistently portrayed as pathetic you start to wonder), he's treated as a replacement/rebound for Scar, Grian and his interactions are spun into being about Desert Duo (yes, I've seen this happen multiple times, its weird), disloyal, completely incompetent, and when he died he was immediately talked about as "The new canary".

Which

1) That was Jimmy's curse, why are you trying to apply it to someone else who doesn't fit?

2) No, Mumbo wasn't the first one out when the curse was first broken, that was Lizzie

Mumbo and Grian's friendship is also treated as Not As Important As Desert Duo™️. Grian being distraught about Mumbo's death? Nah, let's focus on Desert Duo being friends instead. Grian bringing Mumbo (and Skizz) back to life? Let's focus on the fact that Scar and Grian flew around together (which is cute don't get me wrong). Mumbo killing Grian after being instructed to do so? Let's talk about how this a Desert Duo parallel.

Hell, Grian and Mumbo's friendship isn't even the biggest "victim" of being twisted as only existing to further the Desert Duo narrative. The friendship that has been most affected by it (within fandom ofc), is Grian and BigB's friendship.

Which, is even odder to me. Grian and BigB have known each other for ages, Grian went and looked for BigB himself (because He Wanted To Be Secret Soulmates), Grian said in 3rd life that he didn't want to kill BigB, and the two of them have known each other for long as hell and have even travelled to Sweden together irl (wayback in like 2017).

There's a lot to say about the fandom's treatment of BigB but yeah, not what this post is about.

It's very difficult to interact with fandom content within both the Life Series and Hermitcraft nowadays. You can't escape Desert Duo or Scarian, even if you try. A lot of the time another ship tag, duo tag, or character tag ends up clogged with Desert Duo/Scarian stuff, and if you block the tag it gets filled with blacked out post saying "This post contains Scarian, do you want to see it anyway?" (<can't remember the exact wording), and often UNTAGGED Scarian/Desert Duo posts pop up in other tags, often tagged with another ship that has nothing to do with the post (<Seen this happen a few times in the Grumbo tag). The Scaridarity tag is filled with Scarian posts, which makes it hella annoying to go through/follow that tag.

And yes. Grian and Mumbo have been a duo since... 2017? 2018? Somewhere around there. They're genuinely close as all hell, having gone on a roadtrip together, and having travelled to Sweden together. They both put references to each other in their videos all the time, they have a robot son named after their (at the time) duo/ship name, and in the life series they've been on a team 2/3 times + they always base closely on Hermitcraft (more than once they've linked their bases, more than once they've had a messaging system).

But nowadays that's largely ignored/pushed to the side, and for a little while there was this odd idea about a "Grumbo divorce".

Which, yes I know it was a joke, but also...what???

On the Hermitcraft server, the Hermits doesn't interact all the time. It's literary called /Hermit/-craft. Often, this is because the Hermits are busy with their own projects, things irl, or they just don't interact. This doesn't mean that a ship is getting "divorced" or anything. Hell, it's a ship. The shipping shouldn't be your main focus when watching a video. The shipping is just something for fun.

So yeah, it was weird to see the "Grumbo divorce" jokes be made, when they're still very close, and Are Still Like That™️ about each other.

There's also this odd thing I've noticed within the fandom, where people can't let Grian and Scar do things on their own without twisting it into Scarian.

No, I promise that in the escape room video that Scar wasn't in, Grian didn't think at all about the fandom's headcanon that Scar is a vex.

All this being said, I also have to say that:

I don't hate Scarian. Does it frustrate me? Yes! Very much so.

But that's because of the fandom. I am a Scarian shipper, I enjoy Scarian, and I enjoy Desert Duo a lot. The fandom has made that experience a lot less enjoyable, because of the weird treatment of other people, because you can't escape it even if you try, because everything gets twisted into Scarian/Desert Duo all the time.

It's frustrating, because it's barely the Hermitcraft or the life series fandom anymore, it's basically the Scarian fandom.

Which, fine, I get it. Its the biggest ship, and I understand the enjoyment of it, nothing wrong with that.

But there's other people on both servers, other duos, other teams, and I promise you everything isn't about Scarian all the time.

I think that Scarian shippers/Desert Duo enjoyers mainly watch Scar's videos, with shipping goggles already on, and then they watch Grian's. They read into things that genuinely doesn't matter, all to further the narrative of Scarian. (I'm not saying everyone does this, or that they do it on purpose, but it comes across as such.)

I can't say that I haven't read too much into something because of a ship, hell, I've been here for Mumbo and Grian as a duo since before the duo even existed.

But to me it feels as if it's going a tad bit too far now.

I keep seeing more and more people get frustrated and tired of Scarian/Scarians, and I get it entirely. I see this happen from multiple corners, from multiple people.

Also, Grian and Mumbo are a duo to such an extent that the Hermits comment and joke about it, hell, even non-Hermits do that. I mean Tommyinnit straight up said "You (Grian) and Mumbo come as a pair".

I'd also like to mention the odd treatment of Grumboers from Scarian. Yes, I know that some Grumbo shippers have entered the Scarian tag just to hate on it, don't do that. Just... genuinely, don't do that, what the hell are you even doing actually.

But when Scar said that people were "Annoyed with him and Grian teaming together all the time" (Which they haven't done. They've interacted a lot, which ain't surprising. They're p good friends), there was an odd wave of posts I saw that blamed Grumboers?

I assure you, that whole thing wasn't our fault. People who've complained about that have done so in the YouTube comments, on reddit, and ofc some have done so on twitter (which is just an awful cesspool of negativity, which is why I don't use it).

It's not our fault. A lot of Grumbo shippers are also Desert Duo enjoyers/Scarian shippers. I mean, I am.

There's also this odd narrative that "Grumbo shippers never experienced this much hate when Grumbo was the biggest ship"

Which is just blatantly false.

In the past, people got hate and death threats for shipping. Didn't matter what you shipped, you got hate for it.

At the time, there was a bunch of posts, much more negatively charged than this one, where people went "This isn't the Mumbo and Grian fandom, stop treating it as such." There were a lot of posts about how Grumboers were annoying as all hell, and how we clogged tags. There were straight up hate posts being spread, often by the majority of the fandom.

Shipping with in the Hermitcraft fandom wasn't accepted at all, and Zombiecleo got bullied of off tumblr for saying that she didn't care if people were engaging in shipping.

I'm glad that shipping is accepted now, because by god it was an awful time, but don't say that "Grumbo shippers never had it this bad". We had it a lot worse. Shippers as a whole had it a lot worse. Don't pretend like it didn't happen, and don't try to act as if it's only Scarian shippers that have been hated.

In all honesty, I'm just tired of all of this. Like really tired. I'm tired of seeing everything get twisted into Scarian/Desert Duo, I'm tired of the ignorance of the fandom's past, and I'm tired of seeing hate aimed at any ship/shippers

But I do think that its time to leave the desert. It's not fun to be in the fandom anymore due to the behaviour. Sure, keep shipping, keep having fun. But for God's sake please stay in your lane, tag your things properly, and please stop trying to force Scarian/Desert Duo upon everyone.

I don't think that the hate is deserved, but everything isn't about Desert Duo.

This is most likely the only time I'll make a post like this, and I'm only making it because I'm finally fed up and tired.

Thank you for the ask.

[the-somwthing]

hmmm...Grian

idk how to elaborate on any of this tbh. I’m sure there are no questions.

[daydreaminglifelesslove]

i mean im reminded (and checked the video to remember right) of him joining and being turned into a proper hermit of hermitopia after he invited scar to be the first to try after the other spooked him by the Join! machine he made in his season 9 episode 27/called hermitopia and him at the very end of the video exclaiming to himself and the audience on how sad but true the smushed smallness trait he made for the hermits who joined hermitopia was more to his in real life height. (which, it’s implied but he’s short) and how much he hates how in game the effect/mod it looks so wrong in f5. also i guess because he’s a chaos gremlin, pesky bird, creechur, who fools everyone by being a cute ‘smol’ person (or just two big long black lines for eyes, a simple cozy enough red sweater/jumper, waffle hair, can remind u of bread, seeing irl him with his cats) who is so compacted with so much unrelenting energy he flies everywhere like a bird and gets into places that intrigue him. maybe some extremely old perceptions and kept views too with all the coming years knowledge we have now on what season 6 (or more&in gen viewers who came from evo, after it was finished) grian was like. new and probably to himself in over his head and intimidated and overwhelmed and maybe a little shy. <- has started his season 6 playlist awhile ago, never seen it in full, watched like a good ten episodes with a estranged friend and stopped watching at least 6 partly because of it. knows a lot about it from the grapevine. and ig watching all videos of hermitcraft recap season 6-9 a year ago because me not having time to watch all 30+-min episodes and getting a fun summary from pixl and zloy. i know I’m sending this late and if I write the one i said in tags got deleted it will be late too but i wanted to say this and possibly w/e else because i couldn’t stop myself otherwise. got into a explaining long wordy defensive ‘apologist’ brainrot spiral over…my main guy who entertains me? idk explaining and defending and arguing can be fun or just the right or wrong idk switch of i can’t think of anything else to do but maybe do it if i can with trying to be kind and careful. idk.

anyway felt like writing something and reblogging it, late or not. it is pretty harmless accepted or liked or is a fine by most grian enjoyers headcanon. or sorta truth. i mean i usually don’t see him at all that short, I guess because i curated my space and don’t mind it. I do like the idea of parrot or allay or bee or baby chicken grian just existing. or being a devil on your shoulder. idk it’s part of his vibe tho there are people who make him buff (cause he can be quite strong, would be in character and irl) and tol enough. height differences are also nice, lanky tol mumbo and smol or short grian. etc etc. i mean because i hope and think and maybe know op understands my feelings and to bring them as examples, the dynamic and height differences of tol lanky etho and short bdubs, adding tol scar or taller than bdubs but shorter than scar cubfan or really any hermit taller than bdubs who tangles themselves into his magnetic charming sometimes cute when angy or flustered. Etc. yeah. Done for now very tired. My inbox, dms, reblogs, comments always open.

Also adding to all ypur anti-grianfanbase posts, everyone makes him uwu short---- like its SO ANNOYING. He's always about 2'1 and too uwu short to do anything

honestly this one is just harmless headcanon to me i agree that i dont really know WHY the general consensus seems to be that hes short but also thinking about him being too small to reach shelves makes me laugh

[yunostexe]

i dont know what BigB and Grians shipname is and i doubt it's this but in my heart i want it to be brian

[silverechosandblankmasks]

This is def not an attack!! But like;

People who make content/talk specially about Bad Boys and Roomies but don't include Grian really like, confuse me? (Specifically, people who either talk about or make stuff around the dynamics of the series they were in but don't include Grian while still calling them Bad Boys and Roomies)

Don't get me wrong, Grian is not everyone's little guy and I know him being "everywhere" can be a bit tiring for some, and that's so valid!

But like, it's not Bad Boys or Roomies without Grian?? It's Jimmy&Joel and Etho&Cleo then. The reason those are the dynamics and named for those dynamics is because Grian adds to it, he's just not there standing in a corner while they do stuff ya know?

There's nothing wrong with preferring those pairs and being happy these team ups provide them, but you really can't fully remove Grian from these dynamics without destroying how the team is. He was a structural part of Jimmy&Joel's Limited Life experiences, he was a structural part of Etho&Cleo's Secret Life experiences.

I'll refrain from going all analysis on Grian's relationships in the Life Series and the people he teams with for another day, but yee I just wanted to ramble about what iv noticed recently.

[xoxo-ren-xoxo]

i feel like im always 100x happier when i straight up just block people who get negative about silly things i like. that being said im prepared to block a LOT of people after this wild life session 😭i dont care if u think it was bad/too brutal/not entertaining im killing u w my mind because i think it was lovely

[mumbo-jumbo-facts]

MUMBO JUMBO FACT #25

in hermitcraft 7, mumbo did an episode where grian and rendog talked over his minecraft footage. He also did specific things to mess with them, for example, he gave the part where he built a piston door to grian, who knew basically nothing about it.

It was pretty fun I'd say!

this fact used to mention iskall85, I do not condone his actions, and thus this fact has been edited

[chipjrwibignaturals]

got struck momentarily by profound loss thinking of a grian wl win and how we missed out on a "the house always wins" theme to go with the series' gambling motif

[hermitcraftx]

you're allowed to not like the way people headcanon characters as trans but if i see one more person being openly hostile abt transmasc grian headcanons i WILL get violent. who cares if theres a lot of it and you think its wrong and you dont like it and its a stereotype the moment you become aggressive and mean . you are in the wrong. like if you go onto someones trans headcanon post just to be like "ew what the fuck are you smoking" you are just mean and you will be reincarnated as a cockroach

[fluffy-papaya]

‘people only hate watcher grian because it’s so popular!’ no actually i hate it because it was popularized/created by A 2019 Asshole who has left such a huge stain on hermitblr that some hermits still don’t like tumblr, it’s ruined any discussion/the tags of EVO, which existed as its own series outside of grian and the watchers, and it makes it impossible to ever talk about grian as a character because someone will Always try to make his character watcher-related, even when that isn’t applicable to the conversation.

[vyeoh]

i dont understand watchers lmao

like i kind of get the gist

but i did not watch evo

and do not have time to (sadly)

so...help???

Luckily for you, the watchers at this point are pretty removed from the Evo ones! There are some pretentious purists out there, as with anything, that like to bitch about people not following the original script (god knows I'm guilty of this with other stuff lol) and I've noticed bitching about this specifically becoming more popular, but I'm assuming you're coming to me about the lifer series watchers and not Evo watchers. That being said, here's Vio's Watcher guide of questionable accuracy:

The Life Series watchers are only really "canon" in Martyn's lore, with them being referenced but not explicitly canonized in the Secret Life state (the symbol on the mask is their symbol from Evo but no one else really has lore, period, so I hesitate to count this as more than an easter egg for anyone else but Martyn). From what I can tell, the Watchers retained a few things from their Evo lore:

1) The ability to move players to new worlds- In Evo, the Watchers were the ones who moved people to more updated versions of the game (the series concept was playing survival but gradually updating the game version as they went). This ability lends to the life series Watchers being the "gamemakers" and being able to put players in a new game ever season

2) Grian - at the end of his Evo series (tho notably not the Evo series in general), he was taken after jumping into the end portal by the Watchers. Based on the end credit poem being replaced with a dialouge between two of them, and a third one joining in at the end, the assumption is that Grian became a Watcher. As Grian is also the server owner for the Life Series, him being a Watcher plays well into the Watchers being the game runners. I'm not sure how canon this is in Martyn's lore or if it's still an unknown, but it is a prevailing theory that Grian's involvement isn't part of the other Watcher's plans and is to try and fuck up their shit on the inside and essentially do damage control for his friends. This is based off of the quote "He was never meant to interfere, he was onlt ever meant to watch" from Martyn's videos. However, c!Martyn, who is the perspective we see, is not omniscient and therefore there's a lot we just don't know.

3) Listeners/ why the Watchers seem to hate Martyn and also Jimmy: from what I understand from the little Evo lore I remember (this was years ago lmao), the Listeners appeared later as an antagonistic force to the Watchers, and got Martyn and Jimmy on their side. They were presented as a route to freedom vs the Watchers, but once again unreliable narration needs to be kept in mind. This is likely why the Watxhers keep fucking w Martyn specifically (and might provide an in canon reason for why Jimmy keeping dying first as well lmao) but it hasn't really be touched on beyond 1) Martyn is canonically a Listener and 2) the Watchers know he's a Listener

4) So.... what are the Watchers? - this one is, canonically, unknown and therefore the source of the aforementioned pretentious bitching. You need to keep in mind that mcyt roleplay is not structured and Evo especially didn't start out expecting deep worldbuilng. This, plus the fact that the Watchers are higher powers that different people have different opinions on, means there's going to be a lot of info that just doesn't line up, from both a meta and in canon perspective.

One theory is that they're a representation of viewers. This is at least somewhat true, imo, based on how Grian "becomes a viewer" after ending his series. This is not canon, but personally I do like this theory lol. This also carries into Secret Life, where viewers can submit tasks via the statue. However, I don't think this is canonized ever and might just be more symbolic than literal. There's also a theory that Watchers vs Listeners are a dichotomy between the bad viewers who just "watch" and demand things without "listening" to the players, while Listeners are viewers what actually "listen" to what the players want to do. However, as with everything, this is speculation based off of a 3rd person limited perspective.

5) Are they evil?- once again, depends on who you ask and what version you're talking about. According to c!Martyn in both series, yes. According to c!Grian from Martyn's lore, probably? Or at least he doesn't like this particular plan of theirs. According to Evo fans who remember them as just "plot bunny for why the version of the world keeps changing", probably not. We really don't know a ton about them and so you are free to make them as evil as you want or as neutral as you want.

This is preally much all ik about the Watchers and how they relate to the Life Series. You will notice that most of it is theories or hinted at things. The beauty of mcrp as a genre is that it's very semi-formal, and so canon is a bit wiggley. So TLDR: do whatever the fuck you want lmao. You don't need mine or anyone else's approval. It's your right to do what you want with canon, just as it's your right to bitch about it on the internet. Just don't be a dick about it and everything will be fine 👍

[th3-c0ll3ct3r]

Preaching to all people who think some content creator are messaging minor for no reason

aka Twitter/tumblr cross over users.

AhEm... YOUR INTERNET PROVIDER(S) CAN SEE THE THINGS YOU DO WITH YOUR INTERNET AND THAT INCLUDES MESSAGING

(and discord... because you're using the internet to get on there... As hotspots too)

This means if a content creator is messaging a minor in an inappropriate or bullying way (in the UK at least) they would come knocking at you door asking for all your personal information, identification, means of contact and be asking questions.

Has that content creator been arrest yet? Nope.

Is cyber bullying/harassment a crime in the UK?

Yes! Under the laws:

Protection from Harassment Act 1997

Malicious Communications Act 1988

Defamation Act 2017

And can even prevent you from getting jobs in the future of your employment wants to look at your social media! Which is legal! (as in they want to make sure you're not a weirdo or anything! They can't deny you a job based on political stuff or opinions on other companies!)

Is messaging a minor inappropriately a crime?

FUCK YES‼️‼️

Sooooooo keep this in mind when you post things online, that the government CAN BE INFORMED OF YOUR ACTIONS ON THE INTERNET BY YOUR INTERNET PROVIDER IF YOU DO SOMETHING SUSPICIOUS OR THAT BREAKS THE LAW