#he manages to kidnap the spirits of whatever heroes close to bruce are currently dead and maybe his parents and tortures them

[why-is-it-always-autumn]

not to beat a dead horse but something I feel like gets ignored a lot in “Why doesn’t Batman kill the Joker?” arguments is the fact that Batman and Joker don’t live in the real world, they live in the DC Universe, where multiple afterlives canonically exist and coming back from the dead is extremely common.  Killing Joker isn’t permanently stopping him from hurting anyone else, it’s sending him off to guest star in Hellblazer or team up with Etrigan unsupervised or make a deal with Necron and now he’s alive again but he has superpowers, or he’s the new ruler of Hell, or he’s a malevolent ghost and now he’s Deadman’s problem.  At least if Batman sends him to Arkham he’ll get an alert when the guy breaks out and he can make reasonable assumptions about things like “how far could he have gotten?” or “What resources does he have?”  Batman sends the guy to Hell and he could be doing literally anything, no timeline on when he’ll turn up again, no way to keep tabs on him short of calling in favors from the magic crowd.  If Joker escapes and comes back he stays a basically human guy with a knack for chemistry and an immunity to his own concoctions.  If he dies and comes back his abilities could be anything from “ghost that appears in the corner of Bruce’s vision to gradually drive him mad” to “literally exactly the same” to “The new Spectre, for some reason”.  There is no way to know.  The only certainty is that at some point he will come back and hurt more people, and there’s no way Batman doesn’t know that.  It’s not mercy or naivety to keep the extremely dangerous mass murderer somewhere you can keep an eye on him instead of booting him into the unknown and hoping for the best.  This is something that needs to be taken into account.

[comic-voice-over2]

The Joker Strikes Back (Chp 15)

Their search is almost over...or in Joker’s case, not even close!

           Enraged, Talia forces Joker to attack Team Phoenix, yet the clown refuses to, trying to fight the possessed spirit on his own. Though this is unsuccessful—Penny delivers the first blow by smacking him with the lock she carries.

           “I swear, this’ll be a cake walk if Talia keeps this up” Penny chuckled out “Now then, we should continue finding Roy, and…”

           “Bitch, please!” Talia shouted “We figured he left a trail, so we had him dragged out someplace else! Best give up while you can!”

           Phoenix, enraged on hearing this, storms over to Joker, as he punches the clown dead in the face, breaking any teeth in the process. The others then begin to pull him from Joker, probably allowing him to hopefully explain his—or their’s, thanks to Talia—reason for being back, and for why he’s so difficult to kill, even for Batman himself.

           “Hmph. So you want to know about it all, yes? Fine…I will tell you…” Joker stated.

           As the other five stared and watched, Joker begins to explain as to what had happened. Even though he had died at the hands of Red Hood, he did get thrown into the Gotham River—thanks to Munki. But during some time, Talia’s spirit was still in limbo long after her death in Arkham City. She ended up dead thanks to Joker while being a human shield to protect Batman from getting shot.

           “Was this all during you being sick?” Red Hood asked “I remember Tim mentioning it to me once…”

           Joker nodded, as his sickness was from the Titan overdose he had during the final fight in the Asylum. He did so to hopefully kill Batman, but in turn…it ended up killing himself after Clayface was beaten. So for that, Joker and Talia ended up killed during the whole gang war…and with Batman’s interfering.

           “That would explain why Harley went nuts” Oxford muttered “Though…with Red Hood killing you again, how did you end up reliving between that?”

           Joker had wondered that himself, though he ended up being reanimated after he got cremated before the Scarecrow attack. This would also apply to Poison Ivy as well, who ended up dead after she helped Batman rid of the toxin that spread across Gotham.

           “O-Oh…I think I remember that…” Red Hood stammered “I had that tank…and tried to kill him out of revenge…”

           “So it was you who was assisting Scarecrow?!” Nightwing asked in anger “Why did you ended up siding with him?!”

           “I was…I was trying to…I dunno, I was just so fucking angry!” Red Hood replied, looking away from Nightwing “So angry, I didn’t know what I was doing, other than getting at Bruce for not saving me from…THIS GUY!” as he pointed at Joker.

           Joker laughs as he was busy dusting himself off, as he was gonna continue the story. Red Hood yells in anger as he pulls out his guns, shooting at Joker. Nightwing stops him, trying to calm both themselves down, apologizing for yelling at him in the first place.

           “Nightwing…I could never be angry at you. You did nothing to upset me…” Red Hood stated “…aside from the time you faked your death. But aside from that, I still love you…”

           “Hey, I hate to break up this love moment” Phoenix stated “But uh, we got a clown being controlled by my crazy mother so…want to fight some more?”

           The two nodded in agreement, as Nightwing allowed his fiancé to continue shooting at him, with Oxford casting some fire spells with it for increased damage. Penny summons a shield on the doors to prevent Joker from escaping with ease. She laughs with Talia commanding the clown to attack her, so the shields can break.

           “Not on my watch!” Phoenix stated, as he swings the sword at Joker, preventing him from coming at Penny.

           “Argh, you’re as crazy as they are!” Talia shouted “Joker…get the sword!”

           “Bitch, you crazy yourself! He’s got one in his hand” Joker stated, then realized what she meant “Oh I get it…you mean…”

           As the crew stepped back—Penny deactivating the shields in the process—Joker reaches around, as he pulls out a giant sword. To Phoenix’s surprise, it looked exactly like the one Ra’s uses.

           “That’s one big bloody sword!” Oxford yells.

           “Indeed. And speaking of the bloody part, there’s gonna be some blood on it!” Joker stated “Hopefully some of your’s!”

           “Not gonna happen, clown prune” Penny points out “We’ll take you down, so we can save Roy! You bet your ass on it”

           Joker snarls as he goes after Penny, trying to cut her with the sword. Penny tries to summon a shield to protect her from the oncoming attack—which succeeds. Joker rebounds as he hits the ground, the sword falling out of his hand. She then summons a thunder cloud, which allows Nightwing to hit Joker with a stronger electric attack.

           “I love this!” Red Hood said happily “But we’ll let Phoenix have his fun later on”

           “I agreed…save his ass for me!” he stated “He’ll pay for kidnapping Roy!”

           However, since Penny had removed the shields from the outer doors, more of Joker’s goons—and even some of Talia’s members started showing up—coming in, surrounding the group and Joker, who was getting up himself slowly. The assassins began to draw their swords, as they slowly stepped closer, making Team Phoenix gather around, wondering what to do next.

           “Who are these lesbian-looking ninjas?” Oxford asked in shock “I’ve never seen them before!”

           “They are my loyal subjects…members of the League of Assassins” Talia stated through Joker “They follow whatever command me or my father give out, and they do it with unfailing support”

           “Though that support system must’ve failed when they didn’t save you both from getting killed” Oxford chuckled “Yet they probably gathered the corpses afterwards”

           Enraged, Talia commanded her troops to go in on them closer, as she made Joker grab the sword. The ninjas glare at them evilly, with Joker’s troops chuckling nearby, preparing themselves just in case Team Phoenix manages to get through.

           “Mr. Wayne, do you know how to beat them?” Penny asked Damian “Because, y’know, given your history with the Assassins and shit…”

           “Well, with the memories coming back, I actually do…but I’ll need your help with this Penny” Phoenix stated “Maybe you can boost me up…”

           “Boost huh? Well, if you want that, I can do so” Penny stated “I just need some space first…”

           When Damian asked what did she meant by that, Penny lets out a giggle as she unleashes a gust of wind, pushing the assassins away from them—and directly at Joker’s troops. With that, she then chants a small spell to help out with Damian’s request of a boost. When she was done, he felt a surge of power swimming within him.

           “Did that help?” she asked.

           “Oh hell yeah! I feel great!” he replied happily “But enough talk. It’s fighting time!”

           Hearing that causes Team Phoenix to attack the combined—yet remaining—forces of Talia and Joker with surprising ease, much to the dismay of the latter watching on. He slams his fist in anger as he mutters out something, while nearby, sitting with him was Arsenal, who is pretty much tied up.

           “What’s wrong, Joker…army’s too wimpy to fight?” he asked sarcastically.

           The clown jumps up and began to smack Arsenal in the face with a gun, causing the hero to spit out some blood. Fighting the pain, he lets out a soft chuckle, saying that Batman may hit harder than Joker could.

           “You’re just lucky I let you live” Joker grumbles “Had it not been for your shrimpy boyfriend, you’d be dead by now!”

           “You wish, freak! I knew he’d come to save me” Arsenal stated “Besides, even the crazy bitch in your head has made you more deranged. Both of you belong in the grave!”

           Hearing that made Joker smack him in the face again, this time with the additional pain making Arsenal cry out in agony. With the nearby henchman asking Joker if they should relocate him, the clown said that let him stay where he is, since Team Phoenix is still looking for him.

           “A little game of cat and mouse wouldn’t kill us…yet it may kill them” Joker chuckled out “Besides, I think Phoenix and myself should have a little party of our own…”

           “What…are you saying…?” Arsenal groaned out.

           “Simple really. I wanted to fight him, but the bitch that’s possessing me wants him dead, namely for Batman’s part” Joker replied “Least both of us may get our wishes come true”

           With that, Arsenal barked at Joker—ignoring the fact that his face is hurting—saying that if he lays one finger on Phoenix, he’d tear a new hole on the clown. Joker simply laughs as he reaches for something he’ll need.

           “And with the condition you’re currently in, I doubt it” Joker laughed “And if you want to be beside him so much, a joint funeral would be glorious!”

           Soon, he pulls out a sword…which looks similar to the one that either Talia or Ra’s owns. In fact, the sword is more likely Talia’s, which she had used while inside the theatre over in Arkham City during that point. Arsenal questions the clown as to what he’s gonna do.

           “I basically told you earlier: I’m gonna kick your boyfriend’s ass…with this beautiful sword the bitch left behind!” Joker responds, admiring it.

           “Which basically you probably stole!” came Talia’s voice “Figure you would have sticky fingers! Even Batman must’ve known”

           “Oh, can it, bitch!” Joker snapped “You’ve been a pain even when you’re dead! I shudder to think of how Ra’s or Nyssa ever dealt with you…”

           Talia got furious as she makes Joker bang his head on the wall until he got too dizzy to walk. Of course, with her being a spirit, this is making her feel some pain as well. Arsenal couldn’t help but chuckle at the view in from of him.

           “What’s so funny this time?” Talia asked.

           “You two should get some help…though, I doubt that’ll happen…” Arsenal replied, but he got cut off by a henchman who suddenly enters the room.

           “B-Boss!” he startles “They’ve gotten pass the crowded room! They’re…they’re heading through the Treatment room!”

           Hearing this has got Joker feeling rather dizzy. He wonders how they’ve known about the Intensive Treatment room in the first place—but then they turned to Roy, who was busy watching them in return. This got the Joker upset yet again.

           “You told them?!” he asked in anger.

           “How else, by fucking smoke signals? Yeah, I told them!” Roy answered “Asylum’s too big anyway; they’d be lost for hours!”

           Joker then pushes the chair, causing Arsenal to land on his left side, hitting his head on the floor. He lets out a groan of pain, as he’s now sporting a headache. He grabs the sword as he stated that he’ll try and handle this on his own, and if he kills them, he’ll kill Arsenal afterwards. One of his henchman pulled up Arsenal and his chair back upright.

           “There’s a chance I can take Phoenix on without the need for his teammates nearby” Joker mutters “Makes killing be less of a chore”

           Meanwhile, the gang has traveled through the X-Ray area, wondering if they’re going the right path. Penny states that the Intensive Treatment area isn’t too far off, long as they follow the schematics. Red Hood himself has been a good help: He recognizes going through here at some point.

           “Wasn’t this during Joker’s time torturing you?” Phoenix asked.

           “Definitely. Going through here is giving me chills” he responded “I’m surprised I haven’t ran off like a punk, crying yet. So far so good”

           Nightwing pulls his fiancé close to comfort him a little as the group advances, but not far off, they noticed a door with a sign saying “Intensive Treatment” over it. They cheer for joy as their search for Roy is nearly over.

           “Hang on Roy, I’m almost there!” Phoenix shouted happily.

           But to their surprise, the door swings open—with Joker standing between them and where Roy is hidden. The group stops as they prepare to battle him, but Phoenix stated that they’re better off searching for Roy without him. They look at him in shock.

           “No way, dude. You have no idea what Joker’s capable of” Red Hood pointed out.

           “I know, which is why I want to experience it alone” Phoenix replied “Besides, I don’t mind a bit of bloodshed after I’m through with him…”

           Realizing that he truly wants to deal with Joker solo, they agreed to let him handle this alone. But since Joker won’t allow them to pass him, Penny mutters a chant that allows teleportation, sans Phoenix. Where they have landed is anyone’s guess, long as the trail to Roy remains hot enough for them.

           “So…it’s just you and me now, clown” Phoenix stated coldly.

           “Indeed. This will be quite a fight to enjoy telling over and over…depends on who still stands” Joker replied with a smug “And I know it’ll surely be me standing”

           Phoenix scoffs at that remark, as his hand hasn’t left the sword handle. He stated that it will be himself that’ll remain standing, and that Roy will be rescued after it.

           “I’d like to see that happen!” Joker shouts, pulling out the sword.

           “Bring it the fuck on!” Phoenix added, beginning the fight.