#pro alicent hightower

[the-daily-dreamer]

The fact that they couldn't give us a scene of Alicent enduring her teenage pregnancies and worriedly confiding in her father which could've garnered some level of sympathy, but instead they gave us scenes of-

An underage Aegon masturbating.

An original character for adult!Aegon to SA.

A Green Council that completely reduces Alicent's involvement.

Child fighting pits.

More SA directed at Alicent from Larys Strong.

A completely illogical scene of Rhaenys and Meleys crashing through the dragonpit and murdering countless civilians.

...all of which could've been devoted to worldbuilding that actually explained why Alicent and the rest of the Greens feel as justified in their wariness towards Viserys and Rhaenyra's lackluster decision making.

They gave us so many unnecessary scenes that exist purely for shock value. It’s a cheap attempt at drumming up the feelings people had during seasons 1-4 of GOT.

And by doing this they lost critical time where they could produce actual nuance for both sides. Show the real reason that team green doesn’t and shouldn’t give a crap about what Viserys wanted, and why they had every right to pursue their claim.

We got to see Rhaenyra have a miscarriage but not a single scene of Alicent giving birth (much younger and scared and crying for her mother)?! We got to see Rhaenyra marry Daemon in an uncomfortable and boring blood ritual but not Alicent’s wedding where she had the opportunity to voice or show her displeasure in her circumstances and see how creepy Viserys is marrying a child?! We get a bunch of scenes of Viserys caring about, and doing things for, Rhaenyra but no scenes of Viserys rebuffing and intentionally ignoring his children (except the driftmark fight but again that’s showing him standing up for Rhaenyra more than ignoring the team green kids).

If we actually got scenes showing Alicent suffering instead of implying it and hoping that (intentionally obtuse) fans will get the picture, and scenes showing just how different Viserys mistreats his other kids compared to Rhaenyra instead of having characters just say it out loud. We might have had a show that produced more fans that are on the fence. But instead we have a show that uses critical time trying to shock you with illogical death, SA, and generally uncomfortable sex scenes. Thereby overshadowing any opportunity for people to understand team green and sympathize with them

[vaenaera]

imagine being upset at seeing a fourteen year old be killed but then looking forward to seeing a toddler be killed

[marysblo0d]

Face card, no cash no credit

[alicentsecretstan]

The topic of "Whitewashed" Green and Blacks my honest opinion.

This something that I have been thinking since watch the show, and it have been a topic discussed from both sides that I saw in the fandom.

But there is majority difference is how is done on TB and TG.

For exemple Alicent is a complete different character from the books. She is less a stereotype evil stepmom and more like a protagonist of Dostoevsky story. And we see in the show part of her book characterization showing up. Still I feel like her character is way more complex and add to the over all tragic aspect of the big narrative. And even her more controversial moment, like the infamous last scene with Viserys, it fits her character from what we see before, to have confirmation bias moment so she could do what she already deeply wished, because is part of Alicent characterization even though some aspects is contrived and I don't took away from people that found out that scene dumb. And that goes in a similar fashion to Aemond, it have base on things they already have stablish way before.

"The idea that we control dragons is an illusion " - Visery

" A dragon is not a slave". - Daenerys Targaryen

But when comes to TB whitewash it doesn't add to story and sometimes is even contradictory what they even stablish before. The most clearly exemple of this is Daemon and Rhaenyra.

The first episode of the show we have Daemon giving Rhaenyra neckless what is a nod to part of the book that heavy implied the grooming aspect of their relationship. And is very important aspect for understand his political motivations behind his actions, arguably some even could say he himself play a part on creating the family feud. It doesn't mean he doesn't have feelings for her. But in the show? Is very romantized and underplayed and is contradictory.

Daemon took her to the brothel, took her hat off exactly for everyone to see her white hair, he wanted to expose her. And then He left her there, because it was supposed the moment of " I spared you" that Daemon talks to Rhaenyra on the beach years later. Whatever it doesn't work, because at this point he already got what he wanted. Ruined her reputation so they could married. But we as the audience should see this redeeming quality.

Whatever this is small compared to Rhaenyra that in the process of making her more sympathetic and "Not like other girls" they make her incredible dumb and inconsistent.

House of the Dragon has a lot time jumps, and in between young and old transition for Young Alicent to Old Alicent is well done and make sense for her character. But Rhaenyra? Well is so hard to connect her young self and old self.

What we know about Young Rhaenyra?

She likes to ride on her dragon.

She is bold and reckless. She has "the blood of the dragon".

She have been part of the small council for a time.

She doesn't want kids.

And she even says to Alicent, she can't think of anything worse than be trap in castle giving birth to children.

And what is the first scene of old Rhaenyra? She is giving birth. There is some sad irony here if was made on porpoise. But a lot of what she was, isn't a thing anymore. A lot of her characteristics are wash out.

Alicent ask to bring her baby to her. And Rhaenyra, as political move decides to go there and take her own child. It shows how much power in a small time Alicent gain over.

What is not something she already had so much in the book. Even so, in the book is Alicent that suggested a marriage between Helaena and Jace. Because at this point in the history, Rhaenyra still holds the power.

But in the show. Even despite Rhaenyra being part of the small council longer and the legitimate heiress. She lost political power agaist Alicent.

And that has nothing to do with Rhaenyra being a woman, because Alicent as well is one, and even someone that has way less cards on the game. That is all because of the incredible bad choices she done.

First she decided to bear children outside a marital union. Generating bastards that according to the law, this is treason and only for that her and her children would be kill. And you could say she doesn't have that much choice since her husband won't sleep with her and she need to produce an heir for her lineage to continue and because of the prophecy.

Whatever how she goes on about this is what genuinely sink her down in a level of delusional. Because instead of going to summer Islands and have a baby with black man, and the only difference would be a black hair, and so what would be more on pair with the level of book suspicions about the legitimacy, she decides to try to have white children and wants to pass them off as the children of a biracial man. 😭

And she does that in front of everyone. And then she decides to leave in the worse possible moment. Doing so the greens took over.

And that is the funniest part about the Dance in the show. Because the greens, they don't create the situations that lead them to power. But actually they just explore the incompetence of the TB.

Whatever at same time we supposed to feel bad of Rhaenyra because she bled out and her humiliated herself when she started to lactation in the small council ( even though is logical because this medieval times, people don't care about this, even game of thrones we have a woman breastfeeding a boy Infront everyone).

All her acts from now on is done exclusively out desperation so the audience feel bad for her. We supposedly to see her a victim of bad propaganda and that is why her fans like her. I think this tweet make a good exemple of what I mean and how her fans see her:

Rhaenyra that once was bald and reckless act out of despair. She fake her husband death because she needs to marry Daemon because otherwise she feels powerless and lost. She begs for her father's support after being away from him for years. And then different from the books when she her sons are promised to Varyans since their childhood, she suggested a marriage out desperation.

Because that way her acts feel less part of responsibility, even though she was the one that got herself in this position.

Whatever there is a part of her character that continued since her young age. When her and Daemon stop and saw people making fun of her, she showed a lack of interest on what the small folk think of her. And in the same episode she seduce Cole to go to bad with her, even know this could cost his life. And when adult she kill a man without thinking. She doesn't care for the people she should reign over if that enters in the middle of her self interests.

She doesn't want war, and supposedly care about the prophecy, but put almost no effort to it when clashes with her own interests.

[sansas-amythest-hairnet]

I love characters who are just haters because I too am a hater

[witchy-v1xen]

There's not a day when I won't feel sorry for her. He never deserved her or any of his children. Ironically, he killed Aemma for a son only to eventually gain not just one but three and neglect them. He traumatized a teenage girl for the rest of her life, using her and leaving her in the dust like she wasn't shit.  

[mhsdatgo]

Ok, so let me get this straight. My son's bully cuts out his eye after him and three other kids jumped on him ARMED, next thing I know there's an eyeball in a tray and said son is disassociating and wincing in pain while getting stitched up, and the problem is that he called obvious bastards bastards? And I'm supposed to like... Shut up when my abusive husband basically spits on me and my plead for justice? And I'm evil because I rightfully lashed out? And... I'M the one that needs to apologize?

Trust me, Alicent is stronger than me. If I was in Alicent's place, even she would be straight up horrified by the things I'd do if my son's eye was in a tray.

[spacerockfloater]

“Rhaenyra did try having kids with Laenor, but it didn’t work. That’s why she had bastards. What was she supposed to do, rape him?”

Babe. She should have not married him in the fist place.

I’m sorry, did you watch the show with your eyes closed? Rhaenyra marries Laenor because she believes that they can both fuck whomever they want in this relationship. She tells him they’ll both be free to dine as they please! The only thing she cares about is her own pleasure and freedom, not her duty! And I’m supposed to root for her?

[2rats1gogh]

I’ve never really seen anyone talking about this, but I noticed that one of the main reasons why I am team green is because team green feels like an actual team that is this whole thing together.

Team Green feels connected, united, like a family.

Team Black on the other hand is… meh.

And let me explain why:

Rhaenyra being delusional and thinking that Daemon is actually in love with her when he literally just groomed her since she was a child because he has always been after her title and now wants to be her king consort. They have one of the most toxic, creepy and problematic relationships in the entire fucking show.

Then there is the very awkward and uncomfortable moment of Rhaenyra and Daemon having sex on Laena’s funeral, while Rhaenys, Corlys, Baela, Rhaena and Laenor are mourning the loss of their daughter, mother and sister. How fucking disrespectful is this. And then the fact that they have Laenor “killed” just so they can get married and have their own perfectly blonde targaryen babies.

And Rhaenyra lying about Jace, Luke and Joff to everyone in her very own “team”, trying to gaslight not only Corlys, and Rhaenys but also her own sons into thinking they are trueborn, when even Jace himself. as a child, starts asking questions.

Then there are obviously Rhaenys and Corlys, who for some fucking reason neglected their trueborn granddaughters in favor of some dark haired white bastards their daughter-in-law is trying to pass off as their son’s children. Rhaenys is trying sooo hard to please her misogynistic husband because he so desperately wants his name to go down in history. Then the disrespectful betrothal of Jace and Luke to Baela and Rhaena. Rhaenyra is literally robbing these poor girls of their rightful claim to Driftmark and usurping them. And now, with Luke being dead, Rhaena’s claim dies with him.

Baela and Rhaena losing their mother, and now their father suddenly remarries, and has two blonde boys. Rhaenys losing BOTH her children and then seeing her son-in-law and daughter-in-law getting married soon after that.

Everyone in team black is after their own ambitions. They lie to each other, they don’t trust each other, they suspect each other in different things, they cheat on each other (with each other) and lie about it, they give each other forced ultimatums, and yada yada. All their scenes feel forced, tense, awkward and uncomfortable. They look so miserable with each other.

Team Green in this sense is the exact opposite.

Although their dynamic is far from perfect, obviously, you cannot deny that they care about each other very very deeply.

Alicent loves all of her children, and even while acknowledging their flaws, she still loves them.

Aemond might’ve been a little envious of Aegon, but he would never turn his back on him. He would never betray his brother, be would never try to take his crown from him.

Aegon was far from being a perfect man and king, but, as we know, it was his love for his family, and the fear of them getting hurt that made him a more responsible person and a more protective father, husband and brother. Sure, he is a cheater, but at least he’s honest about it and doesn’t lie to his wife. He is not a hypocrite.

Criston is working for Alicent not for ambition or for self-gain, but because he genuinely loves her, whether it’s romantic or platonic, doesn’t matter.

Helaena would never betray her family, her brothers, her mother. They are all she has. She would never switch sides even if given an opportunity.

And even Otto, arguably one of the main villains of the whole show, still loves his family. Sure, he is ambitious, but he would never become Corlys level of ambitious.

Team Green feels like they are fighting against the enemy all together, they have the same goals, they feel united and you can feel their devotion to each other. Especially after blood and cheese, when they become closer than ever. They’re in this together and only if they stick to each other, they can make it. It feels genuine and honest. They don’t hide anything from each other, they always have their loved ones’ best interests at heart, they would never in a million years betray each other. Yes, they are all doomed from the start, but their dedication and love to each other is truly something else.

[the-daily-dreamer]

I will never forgive HOTD for making me sit through TWO Rhaenyra births and TWO Rhaenyra weddings…

But never having us see Alicent’s wedding or births. Scenes that would have forced the fans to confront the true reality of how despicable her situation is. It would force viewers to see a child, devastated, as she walks down the aisle to her creepy old man of a husband. It would force viewers to watch a little girl have a child. Completely unprepared and alone, crying for her mother and finding no sympathy. She has no father to protect her. No mother to guide her and comfort her. No husband who cares about her.

It would force team black to stop seeing her as the evil seductress, for even a moment. And see her true vulnerability. See how she doesn’t, and never did, want this. See how these are not consequences of her actions, but instead the consequences of the men around her that she has to suffer for them. Because they don’t care about her. Viserys doesn’t care about her.

These are scenes that are meant to bring sympathy to her character. To give Alicent a reason to be righteously angry at the family and system that broke her down and stole her childhood. It gives Alicent a valid motive to fight aside from fear. And it takes away the chances for team black to deny her suffering at least a little bit.

Because as the current narrative sits, it’s easy to ignore Alicent’s experience and warp it into a much more pleasant story. They see Alicent “seducing” the king and then she is already married. And then she’s pregnant and the babies magically appear. No screaming or crying or bleeding involved. All is good. The teenager definitely didn’t suffer at all. And by doing this some people can’t sympathize as much or they are given allowances to intentionally not sympathize.

Instead. The current narrative allows for Alicent to be the seductress, the crazed woman, the jealous bitch, and the villain. But if we saw what she actually went through. Alone, scared, suffering, neglected, and holding it all in. We would be allowed to see her as she truly is. The victim. Finally crushing under the weight of it all and lashing out.

(And the narrative would be all the better for it because instead of feminist icon team vs crazy trad wife and co (as far as team black sees it), we would have woman fighting against patriarchal narrative for her own claim vs woman fighting against patriarchal narrative to destroy the people who hurt her)

[vaenaera]

aemma was married at eleven and then deflowered at thirteen and from then on her entire life was spent as a broodmare birthing babes that died in their cradle and mourning children who had never taken their first breath but somehow you think this woman who suffered so much would be glad to see another woman suffer too

[marysblo0d]

This was actually how the scene was written in the original script

[girl-intrigued]

"Alicent's son sits my throne"

That's your brother , your father's firstborn son , a trueborn prince of the realm now King crowned by the septon. He is King because he is his father's son who was a King that's how it works in westeros that's how your daddy became King because the realm didn't want Rhaenys as Queen. Thats the same way you wanted your son to be lord of driftmark and not baela because she was corlys' daughter's daughter- what is so difficult to understand here ??????

[thesunfyre4446]

why are people so obsessed with comparing alicent motherhood to rhaenyra's?

their situations are so different. alicent had no support system, the only parental role model she had was otto. she was maritally raped and forced to have children at 15 with an abusive neglectful partner and no support system to help and guide her. (because yes, a 15yo teenager is still a child and needs help and guidance to deal with a baby)

while rhaenyra's mother also died, and viserys is also a shit role model, rhaenyra had children when she was older with a man she loved \ cared about. she chose to have kids with harwin. also, laenor was also a kind man and seemed to support her and the children.

alicent and rhaenyra both loved their kids and did the best they could. alicent is def struggling with her motherhood, but the way this fandom shows her no compassion and labels her as a "bad mom" while forgiving viserys's horrible treatment of his children is so disappointing to see.

people don't realize that "you're not as good of as mother as this other woman" is constantly weaponized and used to oppress women. and it's never "you're not as good of a dad as this other man". never.

[a0random0gal]

Do you know what infuriates me the most about Rhaenyra?

No, it's not her entitlement, her spoiled princess behavior and surprisingly not even her insufferable stans.

It's her complete lack of action after she marries Daemon. She finds herself in a situation where her father's health is declining at a steady pace and is as such incapable of ruling and in need of a regency. This is her big moment right? Historically when an old king/queen needed a regent their heir always stepped up to fulfill that role, to start taking the crown and testing the waters while their parent was still alive and show the council, the nobles and the people what kind of ruler they were going to be after their mom/dad died.

But not Rhaenyra. Who loved to talk about the things she was going to do after becoming queen, who loved to remind everyone that she was still the heir in spite of Aegon's birth.

This is her occasion, her opportunity to take power and start ruling, to hold her first meeting with the small council, to begin making allies at court and establish her authority and gain respect as future queen.

But no for some reason she decides to fuck off to Dragonstone and leave all the politics, all the big decisions and royal duties to the greens.

And after that not only has the audacity to complain that Alicent and Otto are the real power behind the feeble Viserys, but to get mad after being "usurped".

Like girl you literally handed them the chance to dismiss you and crown Aegon in your place on a silver plate, you don't have the right to react like this, cause unlike you they can actually recognize an opportunity and seize it lmao.

[rc1207]

I have seen quite often that many people consider young Alicent to be too sensitive and just an envious/jealous girl. Well...

Daemon almost killed Alicent's brother at the tourney, (he was much younger than him). Gwayne was so badly wounded that even the maester had to personally visit Otto and warn him that his son will live.

Otto and Daemon's relationship has always been tense. Daemon allows himself to insult the memory of Otto's dead wife, in front of EVERYONE at the council.. And I remind you, mother's death is the same trauma for Alicent as for everyone's beloved Rhaenyra whom everyone loves to justify her behavior with the death of her mother. But no one talks about Alicent, even tho she also lost her mother. Alicent loved her very much and she still misses her, praying every day at the sept. Do you think she doesn't know what kind of relationship her father has with Daemon? She knows what a terrible person Daemon is, what frightening violence he is capable of, but she is silent and smiles because he is a prince, he is the brother of the king, and uncle of her best friend. She always has to be silent, polite and patient, just like her father.

Imagine what Alicent felt when she found out that Rhaenyra had slept with a man like Daemon? Betrayal. No, it's not just envy that her "friend" has privileges, it'sdisappointment. To make matters worse, Rhaenyra lied to Alicent, she SWEARS BY HER MOTHER'S GRAVE AND DEATH that she IS TELLING THE TRUTH. Mother. Little Alicent values her words, she values the memory of her mother, she is still grieving, and she believes Rhaenyra.

She even refuses to believe her own father, the closest and dearest person in her life. And for what? Eventually she becomes the reason why her father is kicked out of the Red Keep in disgrace, depriving the status of the king's right hand. She defended Rhaenyra's honor, she justified her, and was left absolutely alone again. No mother, no father.

She feels the bitterness and pain of loneliness in the court, and then this feeling doubles because what she did turns out to be a huge mistake. Her best friend is a liar. From Alicent's perspective, her best friend hooked up with a man who had been at enmity with her father all her life, almost killed her brother, and after Rhaenyra smiles at her as if nothing had happened, and shamelessly scatters words, the consequence of which is the departure of her father.

But yeah, for some stupid reason of course "she's just jealous girl" and nothing more.