#humanity (the town)? except it doesn't matter because one means death and the other means death too

[vorakh]

sorry disco elysium you will always be a queen in my heart but you made me want to get better, while pathologic gave me at least one mental illness ):

[weenwrites]

hey, same person who requested Medium/Psychic Reader. I've noticed you wrote only for 2 characters but is it okay if u do the same for Optimus and Ratchet please?

[ Please do not repost, plagiarize, or use my writing for AI! Translating my work with proper credit is acceptable, but please ask first! ]

Optimus

The rides back to base from the church are always haunted by this eerie and tense silence, and it's impossible to miss the stark difference in their demeanor before and after the church congregation. He's unsure whether it's normal for humans to seem exhausted and on edge after attending a religious congregation, and though he momentarily considers this may be part of their religious culture, he's far too concerned to simply leave it be.

He asks the question up front and directly, it's clear he's not beating around the bush, and he wants an answer because he's concerned for their welbeing not only as their guardian but as a friend. If they choose to lie to him, it'll be hard persuading him to leave it at that unless they're a very--and I mean very--good liar. He is by no means a lie detector, but he's good at picking up on the signs and interpreting them.

If they're honest with him, he believes them rather quickly, given the general belief of the existence of an afterlife in cybertronian culture. However he finds it fascinating, given how it's not exactly clear that humans have a "spark" or a "soul" that would be reborn, and yet some persist after death and take the form of a ghost with the potential to grow malevolent and harmful towards the living.

When he goes to pick them up, he'll offer to escort them back home early and so they can rest and relax from whatever it was they had to do that day. However, if they don't wish to be alone in that moment, he'll bring them back to base and they can sit near the rails as he works, or they can join him on a brief patrol around the area.

Ratchet

He's not one to poke and prod at business that doesn't concern him, no matter the rumors he hears about it, yet the only exception is when said business ends up hurting others. In this case it has to do with his charge. He's heard the kids gossip about the local church in town, and they talk about ghosts and the paranormal, and of course he doesn't believe in such things... Or so he thinks.

His eyes are sharper than they'd expect, and he tends to notice a lot of things that they think they're hiding well as he drives them back to base. He doesn't miss the haunted look on their face, or the tense periods of silence after attending the "assembly" at church, or the way they jump at the creaking of the metal pipes that run along the walls once they're back inside.

And one day he'll ask how "church" went after picking them up. If they're clearly reluctant to talk, he'll push, insisting that it's obvious that they don't look well after whatever they had just done, and as their guardian, he needs to know what's happened because he's concerned that it's causing them some sort of harm.

But if they're honest, he'll hesitate to respond. He's skeptical that ghosts and spirits exist, seeing as humans don't seem to have any sparks that persist after their bodies die, but if humans are the spawn of Unicron, then perhaps this is a result of that? If this is genuinely what is causing them all this stress then he'll take it at that. From then on, every time they finish "church", he'll offer to take them for a drive around the town to get their mind off all the stress they no doubt endured during the exorcism or whatever else it was they had to do that day.

[chloe-caulfield94]

Certain things are never justified

One of the reasons I am captivated by the Bae vs Bay dillema is that it perfectly exemplifies the difference between "pure" utilitarianism on one hand and rules-based utilitiarianism as well as deontology on the other.

To put it simply, under "purely" utilitarian ethics, actions are judged solely based on their outcome. Ends justify all means.

Under rules-based utilitarianism, actions are generally judged based on their results, but with some exceptions. Some actions, which violate fundamental values and principles, can never be considered justified, even if they would bring about positive results.

And under deontological ethics, actions are judged based not on their outcomes, but rather based on whether they conform to the moral duties resting on the person performing the action.

Do you see the difference? Under "pure" utilitarianism, ANY action can be justified, as long as it produces the result you deem positive. Doesn't matter how vile the action is, it can be justified, as long as the situation is "exceptional" enough.

Under the latter two approaches, certain actions are so reprehensible, that they can never be justified, no matter what outcome they would produce.

Now, you'd think that murder, that is intentionally causing the death of another human being outiside of the context of self-defence, is something so reprehensible that we'd all agree it's never justified. Unfortunately, the Bae vs Bay dillema, the fact that it even is a dillema, proves that some people are able to rationalize even murder, "for the greater good".

And yes, Max intentionally taking Chloe from the safety she enjoys on Friday and thrusting her back in front of a barrel of a gun on Monday, is murder. Bay Max intentionally, as a result of her conscious decision, causes Chloe to die. She willingly causes Chloe's death, which wouldn't happen otherwise. If Max does nothing on Friday, Chloe lives. It's Chloe's death that requires Max's conscious input. It doesn't matter it's Nathan who's pulling the trigger, the same it doesn't matter it's not you behind the steering wheel if you push someone into traffic.

If Bay Max ever stood trial, her action would be classified as murder - she intentionally caused another person's death with her actions. And no, "destiny" is not a valid defence in criminal court. And no, the fact that Chloe was originally in danger and it was Max who saved her life doesn't matter, because it doesn't make Chloe into Max's property that she can freely dispose of. It matters that on Friday, when the final choice is made, the original danger has already been averted and it requires Max's conscious decision and intentional action to recreate that danger and push Chloe into it. And no, nobody can "okay" their own murder. Especially a depressed, abused teenager.

At best Bay Max could try to claim the defense of necessity, arguing that she committed a criminal act in order to stop great harm from occuring. But that defense involves acknowledging that the act the defendant stands accused of was in fact a crime, but due to the unusual circumstances of the case, the accused should not be punished in this specific instance.

In contrast, if Bae Max ever stood trial, she would be acquitted. Because to be held responsible for something, you need to at least be able to predict the consequences of your actions. Max had no intent to destroy the town, which is why she couldn't be found guilty of murder. She couldn't even be found guilty of manslaughter, because on Monday, when she performed the action which brought about the Storm, it was impossible for her to predict that would be the result. You can't retroactively ascribe Max's state of mind from Friday to her action on Monday. To find someone guilty, the action and intent have to exist simultaneously.

Bae Max wouldn't have to argue necessity or any other specific legal defense. Her action (or rather inaction) was simply lawful, as it didn't contain the necessary elements of any crime on the books. You are never under a legal obligation to take a life. So by refusing to take a life, you cannot possibly commit any crime.

To my chagrin, a lot of people are willing to justify murder. To them, utilitarianism excuses even the intentional taking of another person's life, as long as it produces a result which they consider "a greater good" or at least a "lesser evil".

So I'm going to give a different example, which hopefully will illustrate to everyone that "pure" utilitarianism is a flawed ethical system, leading to monstrous, inhuman conclusions. There's one thing that hopefully nobody would ever try to excuse.

TW: sexual assault

Let's consider a hypothetical scenario, in which the terrible crime Max saves Chloe from on Monday is not murder, but rape. It's not a far-fetched scenario, since the "photo sessions" Jefferson and Nathan subjected their unwilling models to were a form of sexual assault. Given Jefferson's ramblings about "taking away the innocence and corrupting" the teenage girls he abducted and how both him and Nathan kept calling their victims "whores" and "sluts", the repulsive sexual undertone of their violence is clear. And who knows what Nathan would've done to Chloe had she not mustered the last bits of her strength to flee from his dorm room?

So in this different scenario, Max has the option to push Chloe from the safety she enjoys on Friday back into danger on Monday. But not to be murdered. To be raped.

I beg of you, please tell me you wouldn't still choose the Bay in that different scenario. Please tell me you at least find rape to be so evil of an act that you would always prevent it, without even considering the results from a utilitarian perspective. Please tell me you would never let someone be raped, not even to stop a tornado with multiple fatalities.

So if we agree that there's at least one act so vile that it can never be justified, no matter how "exceptional" the situation might be, no matter what the consequences of preventing that act might be, don't you think that murder should also be considered an unjustifiable action? It's not appropriate or even possible to compare different types of atrocities, but you could make an arguement that a victim of rape at least has a chance to overcome their trauma and continue their life. A victim of murder has no such chance.

Why is the clash of "pure" utilitarianism with rules-based utilitarianism and deontology so important? I apologize, I know I'm going to fulfil Godwin's law, but I think it's warranted this time.

Some SS and NKVD members were simply sadists, relishing at the opportunity to murder and torment others with impunity. But some were people who bought into the deplorable, false narrative that in exceptional circumstances, like war or revolution, great sacrifices simply had to be made. That some people, whose continued existence was a threat to the nation, had to be removed. Regrettably, they had to be killed. But their murder was justified, as it would produce a greater good for the rest of society.

If you're a "pure" utilitarian, you can be persuaded to commit any atrocity imaginable. If you are willing to intentionally take a human life outside of the context of self-defence, then under right circumstances - war, revolution or some other calamity - you could do anything, as long as a persuasive arguement is made that it's "a lesser evil" or that it will lead to "a greater good" or that it simply "has to be done".

But if you acknowledge that there are some actions, like murder, which are never justified, then you remain immune to such arguements. No matter the circumstances, you would never commit certain acts of evil. You have at least some basic red lines. And that makes you a moral person.

[rivangel]

gee, my friend!! congratulations on 2k, that’s a big number fr 💙

levi and 8. shielding the other one with their body (can we… shield levi? 👀)

thank youuuuu suki <3 plot is sponsored by a fic i read a while lol. idk what’s up with my writing style in this one but djfjsjdjgj also nanaba is nb because.

//gn!reader, canon-typical violence, injury | ~1.8k

To think that an abandoned town like this—surrounded by a moat, watchtowers and all—is a safe haven during the night, but by daybreak, the formation is just as vulnerable as if they'd camped in a meadow.

The bright day gave eyes (in addition to Miche's supernatural sense of smell) crystal-clear visibility, and so the presence of approaching Titans was caught well in advance. They wandered in threes, but in exchange for the advantage of no abnormals to contend with, there were plenty of numbers all attracted to the scent of human flesh.

But there was time. That's the reason elite soldiers like you and Levi were chosen to evacuate the field hospital—what once was a stone watchtower. Erwin commanded that the objective was to outrun, not fight.

His speed and your level head, besides your close relationship that made you act in-sync was perfect for a mission that made it imperative to work together.

You both started at the exposed top floor and worked your way down, ushering the rest of the injured that hadn’t yet, or couldn’t, escape all on their own. One medic joined you.

Good progress has been made so far. You and Levi, and three others counting the quick medic, descended the stone steps now to the first floor. Louder than your heart in your ears was the cocophony of shouts, snapping reins, thunderous steps and the gnashing of jaws just outside this structure. Your lungs burned. Almost out.

Fingers the size of your own body slam through the wall into the narrow stairwell, causing a roaring crash you feel down to your bones.

Levi acts fast and in one enormous slice, frees your way. Fingers to be replaced by a hoard of steam, and a monstrous roar. "Hurry up!”

He leaps down the steps with effortless agility, not pausing for whom he trusts will stick to his heels—and of course you do, tailed by two moaning, injured men, and the grim medic. She has done well to keep her head.

The first floor has been the most spared from the chaos—so much so every cubicle curtain is still upright, even. No sound of howling for help or terror, except a woman with expressive blue eyes and a cast. You mistake her frightened yowling for a cat at first.

"Get them out!" Levi orders you. "I got this one."

You don't think, you act, and throw your body against the thick oak door. The medic is a small woman, of course not cut out for combat, but she joins you. The wood is stuck stiff, probably from the damage done to the tower's integrity.

"Shit."

"We can do this," you insist. "Keep going."

Both men volunteer to shove alongside you, as best they can. Every crunch of stone, sometimes cascading feels like a taste of death. There's no way in hell the third floor is still intact. It too is most likely exposed to the air, where humans can be picked up and treated as a snack. You're running out of time.

But you're close to freedom, so insignificant to mean getting out of this tower, you think bitterly. The door protests and groans, but you're close. The lighter whining of the bed as Levi ushers her up is like a warning siren.

Just a little—

The sound like a mountain snapping in half behind you seems to come long before the ceiling physically collapses.

Levi.

Again, again, you don't think, you act, rocketing back from the door with a shove and into, onto—doesn't matter—Levi mid-run, before the weight of the world comes crashing down on top of you.

It sounds, when you can hear, like distant thunder for some reason. You're within, now, a very, very small coffin. Then you hear no more.

Levi is the first to blink rapidly from unconsciousness and coughs, then squeezes his eyes shut. Dust. Can't breathe. A grueling headache. He remembers it found him first in sleep.

After taking account of his own state, he surveys his surroundings, or lack thereof.

Not rock, or not just rock, but dead weight lays upon his curled-up form like a massive blanket. Fortunate, he thinks at first, that it's dark and his vision keeps warbling in and out of clarity, because he can't tell which name this corpse belongs to.

One second later, the bliss of ignorance shatters. He barks your name, blinking wildly in the cramped, heavy darkness. He commands himself to get calm.

His hand, the one not pinned underneath himself, finds purchase in your neck. He thumbs your pulse and turns his head. Where are your breaths? At first he thinks his nose finds your cheek, but it's your bleeding forehead. He smells blood. Your blood.

Fuck—disgusting.

He feels a solid pulse, and, awkwardly nuzzling the side of your mouth, slow, warm breaths wash over his cheek. A weird noise leaves him, hitched like fear and a low moan in pain and ultimate relief.

Blood is fresh, he thinks in a flurry. It can't have been long since the tower collapsed. Everyone else is surely dead—or he'll treat them that way until he can guarantee he and you are making it out of this.

He forces his incessant panting silent, groping over your back inch by inch so he can to shield your head from further harm. It's all so far away, worlds away, but he hears Titans.

Keep breathing. Keep breathing.

He squirms his head, half-laying on his back now, and his lips touch your ear.

"Wake up," he grunts, very aware then that he's wasting his air. You and the others have been buried alive under rubble. He can't waste both your supplies of air saying your name or begging you not to die, or you'll most likely die anyway.

He could risk crawling out on his own, but that'd mean risking the rubble he displaces crashing right on top of you. It's bad enough that you shielded his body with your own. You could've died on impact. You could die.

Can't climb up either. He's strong, the strongest he’s aware, but not even he can lift a ton of rock.

"Stay alive," he settles on, bullying his other arm up past your shoulderblades. Small bits of gravel and rock shift. With the most coverage he can, he shields the length of your spine. If something happens to your head or spine, that means death for sure, one way or another. It's all he can do—he can't get on top of you.

His heart throbs. Dammit, why couldn't he have been faster? If he'd went for the door before you, he could've gotten it open and most everyone out. Why did he try to save everyone? Now it's just him and you.

Every time this kind of situation has happened before, he’s always the only one left.

"Stay alive..." he mumbles in your ear, then your name. "Don't die on me."

His splitting headache makes it hard to deliberate or even think any more. Whenever he catches himself nodding off, he bites his tongue until it feels like it’s splitting in half, using the pain to stay awake, and devoting constant concentration to tracking your thready, but steady breathing.

When, under the clashing of shovels and shouts, you're both uncovered and your bodies are lifted from the rubble, Levi is found bloody, the only one conscious but delirious, and clutching your body as if you were lovers in bed—not soldiers pinned under tons of stone, dust, and rubble.

You're the only two out of five living.

You wander to wakefulness finally, on a bedroll, parallel with a half-dozen of your comrades who were injured during the attack. You distantly think that five is a good number all things considered, before you turn your head, and wince.

I’m injured…?

Blinking the haze and blur from your vision, the first thing you notice with any meaningful clarity isn’t the clean blue sky through the forest canopy, but in your far-back peripheral: Levi. He sits up against a towering oak, hunched with his knees tucked to his chest. One sword lays balanced across his knees. His fist clutches the grip tight despite his angry knuckles and bloody fingertips. His dull eyes stare vacantly forward, expression hard like a stone.

Which doesn’t even twitch when you say his name. It’s like he’s keeping a statue’s vigil. The only thing living or waking about him upon squinting is the rigid pattern he taps his leather boot in. Tap… tap, taptaptap… tap… tap, taptaptap…

Movement around you is slow—the formation has evidently traveled since… since the tower came crashing down on top of you, you now remember with a start. Tents are up, tendrils of soft smoke billowing up around the area. Lunch.

“Levi?” you ask again, in a weak voice. You tilt your head back to peer at him upside down, because it hurts too much to raise it. “Is… Did we…”

“Hey, Lieutenant. You’re awake,” Nanaba greets with a relieved sigh. You didn’t notice them approach.

They stand over you now with their hands on their hips. The tapping doesn’t stop—or rather it hardens at the approach of someone new.

“What happened?”

They crouch down. “Well… Shit. This is gonna be hard to hear, but only you and Levi survived. I think…” They cast a quick glance in his direction. “I think the Captain’s in worse shape than you. He hasn’t really moved since we got here. Refused any medical, but that’s nothing new.”

You release a breath you didn’t know you were holding. It must’ve been torture for him, riding with no placement near the injured wagons. Duty calls.

He doesn’t appear to hear you and Nanaba talking about him right in front of him, but you know better. His dull eyes narrow despite the hundred-yard stare in them. He keeps tapping.

“I have him taken care of,” you volunteer without thinking. “Um. Well, you know.”

Nanaba looks pained, then scoffs without any humor in it. “I do. When our squad found you…” They trail off.

He protected me, didn’t he? you think with painful fondness. Even when you protect him—and it’s exceedingly rare Levi needs protection at all—he finds a way.

“How… How long were we?”

“A couple of hours. Chances are, he was awake the whole time. So. Try to get him to take it easy,” they say.

You huff in astonishment, eyes wide. Hours. Buried alive for hours. “I’ll try.”

They nod. “Rest up.”

Nanaba leaves you both, or rather leaves you. You lay in silence for a little while longer until you find resolve to slowly push up into a sit. The tapping persists, but your eyes meet for the first time. Despite the state he’s in, his gaze is so intense you want to look away.

“Thank you for protecting me… Hey. Even you couldn’t get out of all that rubble, so, you stayed awake and made sure I was okay. Thank you, Lev’… Now that we’re here, and I’m awake, you don’t have to guard me anymore,” you chuckle lamely.

It’s a plain reassurance, but your head is pounding. You’re still weak.

The tapping doesn’t change. You recognize the technique he’s using to ground himself for what it is, besides his blade being cocked for all to see despite the peaceful area. It’s impossible to tell what he’s thinking, but maybe he isn’t, and that’s just it. That’s what’s wrong.

“It’s okay. I’m okay,” you say again. “Can I sit with you?”

His severe gaze drops. A crack in his armor appears when his shoulders deflate. The tapping slows.

Carefully, you shuffle back, giving his blade wide berth, and sit so your sides are touching.

You rest your head on his shoulder. At first he goes rigid, and then seems to slump completely.

“Everything’s okay, Levi.”

Tap… tap, taptaptap… tap… tap, taptaptap…

“…How’s your head,” he asks, or rather says in a soft rasp.

“It hurts. But that means I’m alive. Thanks to you.”

“Don’t be a fucking fool,” he seethes.

Your lips part.

“I was useless. And I’m the reason we were crushed. Staying awake all that time counts for shit.”

Each sentence, blandly spoken, comes seemingly punctuated by an invisible blow.

You stare. You kind of want to slap him. “I had three others trying that door with me. It wasn’t enough then, either… but we’ll never know if it was inevitable or not.

“Waiting was everything you could do. Ha… You gave your whole heart, as always. If you really wanted to be useless, you would’ve had to die.”

His chest wracks, and a sound that’s both a weak gasp and a surrendering, yet silent sob. His head bows and the tapping fails. You reach over and touch his gnarled knuckles.

“It’s okay.” You kiss his greasy hair and embrace him best you can in this position.

It’s okay. You can’t ask for solace, but your continued hearts’ beating, that you can, and that he gave you.

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[debonairrose]

there is good in the world. there is bad in the world.

a little bad is enough to outweigh a lot of good.

this world is bad. horrible to live in. human kind is not kind. people eat each other. we live in a dog eat dog world. not a human world. no man is good if he doesn't not do anything to fight evil. it doesn't matter if you're weak. if you don't work on getting stronger then you're complicit in wrong doing.

you can't tell yourself "this does not concern me". because we're stuck on this planet together, we need to hold each other accountable.

you can't stand by and let evil doers do their act. if you do, then you have no right to be mad at others if they stand by when your land is pillaged and your loved ones are raped. i am not afraid to die fighting evil. i know that god will compensate me and that this life is a test. but i will not die in vein, i will make sure to make my death worth it if it ever came to it. i don't mind suffering if it makes someone else suffer a little less. otherwise i'm a weak and a worthless scum. if you don't agree with me then i hope you do not complain when someone bombs your house and kills your family. if you think love and kindness is the answer and the only answer. you can go ahead and hug that guy who raped your daughter or pillaged your town or killed your parents or ruined your childhood. i prefer to act differently. even if it takes 40 years. i will become stronger and i will not forget the evil things people have done to each other.

i despise people who think getting a college degree, a job, a car, a house and a family is a life goal. who think that's enough. what a worthless life that would be. you aim so low that you spend your entire life achieving ordinary things. you only have one life yet you treat it like you'll get a thousand others so why care about this one in particular.

Seriously? what a pitiful life goal that is. when you stand before god, do you wish to impress god or please him by telling him that you spent 40 years getting a house and raising two kids. and then a load of silence... seriously? that's all? did you even try that hard? did you even stop once and think if that's enough or is there something more you could've done. is that all you could've done? seriously, ask this yourself, as a challenge, "was that all i could've given, or did i not live to my full potential."

doubt yourself, if it means you can become greater.

if you believe all life is special, then by definition a guy who murders your loved ones is equally special. if everyone is special then by definition no one is...

how about... all life is worthless except those who are actually fighting for their lives, fighting to live better. fighting to protect your rights and land and groceries and friends and preserve your morals.

if my text offends you and you've kept reading this far then wake up and get offended by yourself. as ridiculous as that sounds, it is even more ridiculous to let culture steer your mind and aspirations, telling you what is your purpose, what is enough, how to live.

especially if that culture's whole focus is consuming, consuming and degeneracy, and "taking it easy and having fun'.

[the-firebird69]

We don't have time for you people this is a nuisance here he got up and it's like I have to stop these idiots cuz I need stuff and if I don't I won't have anything. That's all he says every day now he means you idiots here over and over I need people here I need people to crush them we've been listening and hearing him and sending people in to get you and it's well worth it you're very very spoiled a bunch of assholes got this going to go up there and die so is the Asian idiot who operated on him no but he wanted to and he keeps pestering him about it so he's dead it's a couple other people on board one of them says he's his friend all the time and he's kind of obscure but he's running around him all day bothering him like some sort of Love struck puppy dog with a mortal hatred of our son so we're going to kill him all these people going to die up there Sherry's going to die permanently and we have something to do with it because you won't shut your f****** mouth and leave him alone it's not your job to bother him it's what you're doing is illegal I'm getting rid of tons of you huge piles or outside of town if you're a people you're a race is it hard to understand you're causing it good for you get your f****** face out of mine. Then I do this all day long you can't watch any TV cuz they sit spewing stupid s*** at him so I'm going to get rid of them. Several other people are going to die very soon in Prometheus happens pretty quickly it's within about 2 weeks roughly and more of it's going to happen shortly in the movie cesario as a matter of fact there's a bunch of deaths in the movie going on today American made

Thor Freya

We noticed something you stop doing your kill shot stuff and people need it and we did see that they're holding their halting it so we're going after a big time

Olympus

You doing a good job and I need to hear it I will tell you the patience is very low here from him he wants things done he wants it done a lot faster because this situation still deteriorating I want to make a note that this place is a tinderbox and nobody has done anything except for Brad you're not really coming down on your bed it seems like that cuz everybody's a huge a****** about it and he saw what you're doing with John Wayne boulevard and he's too stupid to understand that he's in trouble too because of fire that he's a suicidal freak he says he made the AI do something which is stupid now he's saying about my husband. You doing a good job if we try and help you it'll go put so I say just keep trying to do a good job and BG is down there now and he listens to our son and you guys told he told you told him so he went ahead with it he said well the faster the multiples out the faster the stuff can come in and the more people he can hire but it's really about his farming and where those if he has more farms that can accept that kind of mulch and the testing. So the testing went on yesterday and the stuff is fine doesn't have human waste or that much other stuff here. So they're going to go ahead and start using it and everybody's going to sit there saying they're contaminated they tested on the site and so here it goes you people are going to be fired if you start doing it or even trying to so we have to move in to make sure it doesn't happen

Hera

Zues

New signs that they're doing it in signs or not they're trying to do it but they're not very good at it so you go and grab them you doing it more will start doing it but this is going to start moving now finally and what a lot of work that we had to do and we don't want to have to do this again it's really putting your foot in the other place in the other place and has nothing to do with power okay you're just taking up our time except for the people trying to do it I'm going to penalize you

Thor Freya

It's a huge number of people yelling Sherry is dead and they're going to do it anyways and they have the counter stuff and they don't say anything expect our son to he's sick of these retards and doesn't talk to them on purpose. He says all they do is go around in circles trying to get people here so their butt f****** assholes they're trying to take over the house but the clones are too that's why they Mark the roof and they had Dan put it out there they're trying for the mortgage company so now we're going after mortgage companies. And the brush is moving it's going to go faster and faster he saw the new mulcher there. And you saw a few pieces of heavy machinery that were new and the truckers got to it and they're using the Peterbilt and the international and the ones that are going to be in the Bruce Willis heist and they're doing it on purpose and you just wanted Empire to have the money you c********** stop sucking cock maybe you can figure it out and the whole incident might be fake him running to the ship it's a dumb thing to do anyways cuz doesn't do anything to the aliens except piss him off is that going up to a hornets nest and hitting it.

And by the way Garth says that's what he's doing and it usually is

Ohhh shit losers ok I see it. And she's sucking the blood down I guess my body would be on board but you say it's like a mothership that that thing comes from and you think it's an ostromous I think you're right so you're probably up there and some idiot that we hate

That was our son talking with Sherry I think it's real cuz she's saying things are stupid no it looks like her and sounds like her but we don't think it is her yeah she's a little better looking than normal which is not right

Thor Freya

[cienie-isengardu]

The Lin Kuei? As far as social dynamics and structure. You probably have a lot of these questions answered already, so you might just have to consolidate them... but what do think the Lin Kuei social structure is like?

I know there's the Grandmaster whose above everyone, and the Master Assassins (game characters we know about) and Sifu above everyone else, and rank is probably determined by skill less than birth. Sektor doesn't seem to get any special protection or treatment despite his family tree.

But what exactly is the hierarchy among the members? Who out ranks who? Both in teams, and as a group? What are the inter Lin Kuei relationships like, who feels what about who? What exactly is the qualifications? (Cyrax who I admittedly don't pay much attention to, for example confuses me, since he doesn't seem very impressive as a fighter?) How is rank maintained? I know they probably fight for it, but fighting constantly or to the point of death / serious injury seems counterproductive, even in mk? How is peace maintained? How is punishment dolled out, what constitutes punishment in a aggressively combative society like that, and in such a brutal environment, what is punishment?

If there's other things you think of to answer that I didn't ask, answer those too please. I love how much thought you put into these. Your the best. 🥰

"RELEASE THE RAMBLES!!!"

First off, sorry it took me so long to answer. Secondly, thank you very much for such a wonderful ask! Hope you will not regret once the rambles are set free, because there is a lot to talk about :D

The safest way to analyze Lin Kuei social structures would be to start with some basic question: what is a Lin Kuei? And the answer will be of course a clan, more precisely, a clan using assassins and thieves as its main source of income. But there is also another thing about Lin Kuei that will play an important role in creating and sustaining social structures - the strong independence streak and the pragmatism born from it.

Because the vital part of Lin Kuei is their loyalty to themselves. They work for those who can afford their service, but they aren’t bound to any earthrealm government or outworld ruler. I mean, Shang Tsung/Shao Kahn probably had a long-lived deal with Lin Kuei that benefited clan and in MK9 Lin Kuei offered the emperor their loyalty and service, but we also known that cyber Sektor refused to serve Quan Chi/Shinnok [MKX] once he decided the sorcerer had failed to fulfill his part of contract. Which means at the end of the day, the Lin Kuei benefit was the major goal to achieve. Even Kuai Liang’s reformed Lin Kuei shows this tendency - Sub-Zero will work with other Earthrealm Defenders but he isn’t blindly following anyone and is willing to go against fellow combatants (seen especially in banters with Raiden [MK11] where Sub-Zero questions god’s competence to protect the realm).

Interestingly, Shirai Ryu in the past did offer their service to various Japanese leaders / shoguns and who knows, even in modern days the clan still could have served the government as some special forces in time of need (and in return, have some protection and/or supplies from government?). In contrast, there is little to none information of Lin Kuei being loyal to one country - I mean, the sources usually call Lin Kuei warriors the “chinese ninjas” but we have never seen them showing any sign of national pride, haven’t we? Their only pride comes from belonging to Lin Kuei and their own skills. Another point against connection to any government is the fact that Lin Kuei are operating world-wide and collect people with special powers from over all world (Cyrax comes from Botswana [Southern Africa], Smoke/Tomas Vrbada from Prague [Czech Republic] and even Ice Bros were born in USA in old timeline). So, the fact that Lin Kuei warriors are diverse in terms of their powers and appearance/ethnicity will also affect the social structures.

So, the social structures on one hand must create a society that blindly follows Grandmaster’s will, on another be enough A) elastic to adapt a vast number of different people and B) solid to maintain the clan independence from others, Earthrealm and Outworld alike.

The problem with independence is that Lin Kuei works for the best price which also means constant danger. For warriors sent on missions to the safety of the whole clan. Without a clearly defined loyalty to anyone but themselves, Lin Kuei would be left on its own in case of enemy attack or any other potentially dangerous crisis. So the members of the clan must stick to each other because no one else would do that.

Regardless of type or date of source, the clan headquarters - one or many existing at the same time? - is usually presented as located in a naturally hard-to-reach, isolated place and with a clear defensive character, as can be seen below :

Lin Kuei for ages used naturally hard to invade / attack places like mountain peaks separated from the rest of the world by abyss with a bridge that can be easily destroyed and solid, thick walls to protect the clan. But here is a thing to think about - as much as there were a lot of strong, cunning and skilled warriors, Lin Kuei operated world-wide, taking jobs in various parts of Earthrealm and Outworld and some missions could take months if not years to finish and there was no guarantee that everyone would return. Which means the warriors couldn’t always be available in case of an enemy's attack or other serious crisis.

So, to maintain the defensive advantages, especially in a naturally harsh environment, there should be someone to control and if necessary take care of the state of walls, the bridge(s), residential buildings and so on. Which means Lin Kuei would need access to natural resources (wood, stone, metal) for expansion or repair but also for experienced craftsmen. There is also a matter of access to drinkable water and food supply, the most basic requirement for a clan to survive and thrive.

On one hand, warriors could fulfill such roles too, especially if we take into account a paragraph from Mortal Kombat novel by Jeff Rovin (1995):

They [Lin Kuei] would kidnap children when they were five or six and raise them in secret caves or woods to become superb athletes, great scholars, and unparalleled fighters, able to use all weapons and to improvise arms from common objects such as paper rolled to a knife-point or sand packed into a sock. They would train the children, boys and girls both, to be masters of many trades: carpenters, fishermen, priests, and even beggars, so they could blend in and make themselves useful in different towns as they traveled on missions for their lords.

Many young people died during training: some could not hold their breath for five minutes and drowned, others weren’t fast enough to avoid the weapons of the masters, some starved or froze or dehydrated when they were stranded, naked, in deserts or on mountaintops and told to make their way home. But those who survived were the Lin Kuei.

On the other hand, to become masters of the traders mentioned above, those children needed proper teachers. And yes, the already trained warriors could pass the knowledge to the younger generation but warriors first and foremost were responsible for earning money for the clan which is why personally teaching kids anything other than martial arts seems like wasting a time they could utilize in a better (more profitable) way.

This is why I suspect the social structures of Lin Kuei included various groups responsible for different needs of the clan.

The leader

So, we have a Grandmaster, the ruler. In modern times, pretenders for this title needed only to defeat and kill the current leader to take over the clan. Like Cyber Sektor and Kuai Liang did. But such practice may be just an exception to the long tradition, because Cyber Initiative was an extreme project that divided and ultimately destroyed the old version of clan. Killing the previous owner of the title may have some value (as in, eliminating any potential conflict of interest) but at the same time choosing and teaching a successor sounds much more practical. Because leading such a big clan is no easy feat thus any preparation would be useful and beneficial for the clan’s future. Not to mention the possibility of some secret knowledge that should be passed alongside.

Sadly, we don’t have much information about the inner politics of Lin Kuei. From the crumbs here and there, we know about Sub-Zero and past-Grandmasters that:

→ they could have offspring (example: Sektor).

However the sources don’t define if that was required from them in the form of a marriage or just as a way to secure the continuing inheritance of power (a tradition that Kuai Liang could simply ignore) or from their own choice or if the procreation of a child was unplanned and just happened. Whatever the truth was, in the case of Sektor, “it was never in question that he would join the Lin Kuei.”

The line from MK9 Sektor bio suggests that being a child of a warrior does not give immediate status as a member of the Lin Kuei. This in turn could suggest that not every child begotten by Lin Kuei warriors would be forced to join the clan. Sektor, as the son of the Grandmaster simply didn’t have a choice in the matter and who knows, maybe there is some premature qualification should the child be taken or not.

Another interesting part of Sektor’s BIO is this line: “Though this mission will put his clan in good standing with Shao Kahn, Sektor's ultimate goal is to supplant his father as Grand Master of the Lin Kuei." which may suggests that Sektor wasn’t the designated heir after all so plotted to overthrow his father?. I mean, he was sent to the Mortal Kombat Tournament as a participant and then cyborgized while the Grandmaster himself stayed human with a handful of other members of the clan. Then again, Sektor’s ending suggests that Grandmaster wasn’t surprised much by Sektor’s attempt to take over Lin Kuei, so maybe the killing of the previous leader was in fact a necessary part of rite of passage between old and new ruler?

�� it was against tradition for them to personally train new recruits

Stated in Deadly Alliance, in Frost’s Bio:

The winner was a mysterious female named Frost who seemed to have freezing abilities similar to those of Sub-Zero. Breaking with Lin Kuei tradition, the new Grand Master, Sub-Zero, took it upon himself to train this new recruit.

Interestingly, the Grandmaster was supposed to be the absolute ruler yet there were some traditions that actually regulated his or her participation in daily life of the clan. Kuai Liang simply ignored those and chose Frost as his apprentice, who at least in theory, became his appointed heir. By that logic, Sektor shouldn’t be trained by father, at least not before he gained the official status of Lin Kuei and proved himself worthy of Grandfather’s attention.

→ but it was their duty (choice?) to teach advanced arts to a few selected warriors.

This is mainly seen in Mortal Kombat Conquest TV series. The third episode (“Cold Reality”) gave us Shang Tsung’s explanation about clan and its warriors:

“The Lin Kuei, an ancient sect. Their training is the deepest secret as is their code. They are silent, swift and always lethal [...]. For some, a select few… the Lin Kuei Grand Masters will continue their education into darker areas. Then death comes in more interesting ways.”

Then, through this and another episode, the TV series shows that Grandmaster in fact personally oversees the training of Sub-Zero. So, the training of the new recruits may be against the tradition, but passing the advanced knowledge and the final trials seem to be not. Or at least the trials of the warrior with special (ancient) abilities.

This suggests the social status of a warrior - or any clan member - is affected by Grandmaster’s favor or lack thereof. Those chosen will advance, become more powerful and thus sent on more dangerous yet profitable missions. With a successful streak of missions, their notoriety will grow between prestige clients and the Lin Kuei community for good strengthening their social position. And who knows, one day they could take the place of (grand)masters in the inner circle serving closely the leader? On the other hand, those whose loyalty or skills get doubted by the Grandmaster are punished in several ways.

Inner Circle / Ancient (?) Masters

The same as with Grandmasters, there is little confirmed information about Lin Kuei masters. Bi-Han/elder Sub-Zero seemed to be favored by Grandmaster who called him the “our most cunning assassin and thief” (Mythologies: Sub-Zero) but it doesn’t sound like he was one of the inner circle.

In Mortal Kombat: Defenders of the Realm (episode 5, “Old Friends Never Die”), Kuai Liang mentioned “Ancient Masters” who decided to change warriors into cyborgs, while in the Mortal Kombat Conquest TV show we could see that Grandmaster keeps talking to some men about Sub-Zero’s training and powers. Interestingly, those men had uniforms looking more like his own than of any warrior.

(If Lin Kuei co-operated with Shang Tsung for ages, their life-span could be extended by sorcerer’s magic. Or, their own special abilities allow for such a long life. Thus the name of ancient masters?)

I think it is right to assume those masters formed an inner circle that advised the leader and helped in training the chosen warriors and most likely oversaw specific operations / aspects of the clan's life. Most likely with Grandmaster, they made the higher command and were the law.

Warriors

In the simplest way, this is the working class that earns money and builds the reputation of the clan. The warriors were the main source of incoming profit for the clan, but it wasn’t just material goods from assassinations and stealing but most likely also important intelligence data that Lin Kuei could use for its benefit or sell on. Thanks to them, Lin Kuei was also feared and respected in Earthrealm and Outworld alike.

So, on one hand, being a warrior in itself was a prestige rank that gave a chance to gain fame. The skilled and smart could advance into higher positions (the master assassins and thieves) and maybe even get Grandmaster’s attention. On another the life of a warrior was the most dangerous and hazardous occupation in the clan with little prospects for a long life. The victory was paid in warrior’s blood and pain while punishment for failure was severe and harsh.

The easiest way to classified them would be those two categories:

→ the common ones,

in games and comics looking alike, without distinctive features. It is hard to tell, if they possess any special abilities, if they were blood related to each other, what kind of missions they took.

→ the master assassins and thieves,

whose uniforms and weapons are modified to their personal taste and style of fighting and who have greater independence than warriors from the first category. I think it is right to assume that named warriors should be classified as such. So we have Sub-Zero/Bi-Han, Tundra/Kuai Liang, Smoke, Cyrax, Sektor, Frost, comics!Hydro.

Yet, this division may be in fact disastrous due to lack of enough sources. I mean, the lack of individuality does not necessarily imply a lack of appropriate abilities and for all we know, the “nameless” members just wear proper uniforms for their duties. Something that maybe even the named characters would wear if any source actually showed their downtime between missions. Frankly, the classic “ninja look” also makes everyone look alike, with only proper colors to distinguish between characters. Like the old comics version of Sub-Zero and Hydro - the main detail to tell them apart was the color of their eyes because both wore the typical Lin Kuei blue and dark uniform.

There is a lot to say about Lin Kuei warriors, so I will focus only on the aspects most vital to the subject and the role and effect it has on the Lin Kuei social structures.

→ armors, uniforms and their colors

Lin Kuei seems to have various uniforms, from those with plain (“classic”) look to very ornamented ones. Like I mentioned earlier, there may be an established type of clothes the warrior should wear on duty between missions while during the job the uniform was personalized due to the owner's skills and preferences. Some more advanced designs could be also a sign of personal achievements and were given / passed down (as family heirloom?) to said warriors.

The most noticeable thing however is the color. Since most clan members shared some kind of blood-ties (thus specific set of genes), the color may represent their connections to a specific branch of the clan. For example, blue was used by cryomancers and those warriors who had water-related powers. At the same time, blue seems like the most common color used by Lin Kuei. It makes sense for Kuai Liang’s warriors to use such tone, as to honor their leader and maybe even cut off from the dark past of the clan but frankly, Sub-Zero’s freezing power was called “ancient one” in Mortal Kombat Conquest TV series that alone was set ages before the last tenth Tournament happened, so maybe the ice/water always played a big role through the history and Lin Kuei simply adapted it for its common use? As to combine the reputation of the clan with the terrifying powers of cryomancers?

There is also grey color used by Smoke that fit well to his special power and yellow worn by Cyrax. Albeit if that has any connection to his unique genes or is just a color for a specific branch of clan or just esthetic, hard to tell.

Then we have a red color that most commonly is related to fire, something that Sektor frequently used at least in the new timeline. At the same time, various Grandmasters used red / reddish or burgundy colors (examples: [1] Mortal Kombat Conquest TV series, [2] Mythologies: Sub-Zero, [3] Sektor’s Ending in Mortal Kombat 9). So the red accents on Sektor’s uniform may in fact be a sign of his blood-ties to the leader (or leading family?).

Whatever true reasons lie behind the meaning of colors, Lin Kuei warriors seem to be segregated in certain smaller groups. Interestingly, even if Sektor’s red color in fact symbolised his connection to Grandmaster, this played little to none role in the MK9 game. Of course, the source did not show much inner dynamic between Bi-Han, Sektor and Cyrax but even with so limited space, Sub-Zero was the central figure in the group screen time which makes an impression he was in fact the leader. Then, the argument about the Cyber Initiative project happened only between Sektor and Cyrax, which could also imply Sub-Zero outranked them so they did not want to bring attention of their superior to their personal conflict. Especially since disobedience to Grandmaster was a serious crime.

→ codenames

Mortal Kombat X and 11 provided information that Shirai-Ruy does have some system of official ranks including the term Chujin that in general was a middle rank between ninjas (Takeda Takahashi is a known example). Lin Kuei has complex social structures but as far as we know, they do not use analogous to Japanese ninja system of ranks and yes, I know I categorized the named characters as the master assassins and thieves but frankly, I don’t remember other warriors to refer to them as such. The warriors just called each other by codename and various sources say the codename wasn’t something that permanently belonged to one individual. The name of “Sub-Zero” is the best example since it was used by many warriors through the course of a long period of time.

In both timelines, Bi-Han and Kuai Liang come from lineage of cryomancers serving Lin Kuei

and currently have ongoing conflict to whom the codename truly belongs. Because apparently, the name is passed to new generations once the younger cryomancer will prove their worth, most likely, by defeating the present champion. This does not mean that one must die because frankly, “retired” cryomancer still could teach adepts or serve the clan in a meaningful way. Also, which is very prominent with cryomancers, their mastery over ice grew stronger with passing years, so Bi-Han and Kuai Liang’s Grandfather in fact could be a pretty powerful warrior even as an old man.

The important thing however is that, the codenames may determine the position in clan hierarchy. We don’t have a way to analyze the subjection between codenames and social status of Sektor, Cyrax or Smoke but names used by cryomancers may define their level of mastery over ice. The title of Sub-Zero has existed for ages and I think it is right to assume this is a codename intended only for the best of the best. Sadly, we don’t know how high in the hierarchy was “Tundra” but we can’t cross the possibility that Bi-Han at some point in his career used that name too, before he managed to earn the mantle of Grandfather’s name.

So, Lin Kuei may not use typical ranks and instead stick to codenames passed from one generation to another. Thus no one is addressing Bi-Han as the master assassin and thief but everyone knows that the person using the codename “Sub-Zero” is one of top warriors in the service of the clan.

→ combat experiences, teachers and retirement

Combat experience is something that affects a warrior’s position in a clan because no amount of training (even as hellish as training of Lin Kuei adepts) will be the same as real life and death struggle. The more experienced a warrior is, the more valuable become to the clan. At the same time, old age will slow down even the best of the best fighters at some point. Surprisingly, the first game mentioned (hinted) the idea of retirement in Lin Kuei in Sub-Zero’s (Non-Canonical) Ending:

"After receiving the title of Grand Champion, Sub-Zero disappears back into the shadows from which he came. His only goal in the tournament was...the assassination of Shang Tsung. He was paid a large sum of money by one of Tsung's wealthy enemies. With his mission accomplished, Sub-Zero will collect his fortune and retire from his dangerous profession."

The original Sub-Zero was usually described as 32 years old. Which doesn’t sound old, but if we take into account the previously mentioned passage from the book, the teachings started at the age of 5 or 6 which could mean Bi-Han already survived two decades of harsh servitude to the clan (that abducted him and his younger brother). No one leaves Lin Kuei but there is a possibility that at some age the warrior may step down from the dangerous profession. Then, such a “retired” fighter could train adepts and young, less experienced members of the clan and maybe even start a family that will produce offspring - preferable with special powers - to supply the clan with new recruiters.

Because of that I assume that warriors in their prime were used mainly to do the dirty job and get as much money and valuable items as possible. Once they survived to a certain age, they shared the gained wisdom with less experienced fighters. We don’t know how students and teachers (“sifu”?) were assigned to each other; it may be related to their family ties or similars powers (cryomancers teaching cryomancers, like Kuai Liang and Frost) or the veterans picked youngsters for certain skills or traits that made them worth the time and effort. Anyway, veterans, as those who survived years of service, should be placed high in the hierarchy. Because their experiences and wisdom help to shape a new generation of warriors earning money and fame for the clan.

→ they work alone, in pairs or in bigger groups.

We rarely see the “nameless warriors” working alone - in case of danger or mission, they form a small army and do as they are commanded by Grandmaster (MKX) or one of master assassins, like Bi-Han (Mortal Kombat 2021). In contrast various sources show that named characters usually worked in pairs (Smoke & Tundra, Cyrax & Sektor, Sub-Zero/Bi-Han & Hydro) or alone (Bi-Han, Frost) and in some special cases, commanded larger groups of warriors.

This is an interesting detail, because all the named warriors seem to be to some degree familiar with each other even though it looks like they were permanently paired. Of course, training together will have this effect, but Lin Kuei operated world-wide and in different realms so it is not guaranteed that warriors had time to hang out between missions or to be at the same time in headquarters. If they possessed diverse, opposing elements, after passing the trials and earning the title of warrior, they could be trained separately. Thus again, a smaller chance to form (forbidden) friendship. Which is why I think there must be some exercises that force fighters to cooperate or test their skills in some sort of tournaments. Partially to see how well they fare in fight (thus judge their usefulness to clan), partially to establish hierarchy between them.

Who and how decides about pairing certain fighters is completely a mystery. On one hand, Hydro (water) and Sub-Zero (ice) were compatible and probably naturally increased their own powers. But we also have Kuai Liang (ice) and Tomas (smoke) whose elements seem like not the best combination since Smoke’s power should work better with fire (at least his battle cry, “Where there is Smoke, there is fire!” suggests that) and there is Cyrax and Sektor who powerwise may work well, but their mindsets are extremely different.

Are warriors forced into such partnerships by their superiors or were they allowed to find the right partner, sadly we do not know. On one hand, the dynamic between named characters makes an impression they are in fact an equal partners - Smoke joined Kuai Liang in his quest for revenge on his own (MK9), Sektor didn’t manage to force Cyrax into submission before the man left the clan. Comics!Sub-Zero and Hydro were so close that “Bi-Han” wasn’t afraid to admit his fears of undead Scorpion relentlessly haunting him and Hydro was supportive all the time (“Blood and Thunder”). On the other hand, partnership could provide additional safety and increase the chances of survival during missions and maybe even uphold an already earned social position, so the warriors may seek each other for solely pragmatic reasons, even more since friendship was seen as a weakness and forbidden. I also suspect that though partnership between two warriors was based on mutual benefits, there could be fierce competition between pairs.

Surprisingly, all known to us partnerships are between male characters. There is no gender-mixed duo as far as sources are concerned (unless comics!Hydro was female, trans- or agender person and frankly, for 4 comics issues only one narrator box used the pronunciation of “he” for Hydro, while Scorpion was constantly called by Lin Kuei, other characters or narratives as “he”, which always makes me wonder about Hydro’s gender. Or did comics!Lin Kuei warriors talk about themselves in third person to not betray their and their comrades true identity / gender?). Regardless of the nature of said partnership, those working together share a strong bond. Kuai Liang and Tomas outright considered themselves very close friends (family) despite clan rules that forbidden friendship. Bi-Han was willing to show his weakness / fear to Hydro who in return was very protective of him and even Sektor shows a pathological need to keep Cyrax at his side despite all the oblivious signs how unwise this decision is. Frost, sadly, didn’t have any named partner (what may be related to her role of chief between female Lin Kuei warriors) and if she was included in an important mission, she partnered Grandmaster (MK: Deadly Alliance). And their collaboration was based on a master-apprentice relationship, so it had none of the equality that characterizes the previously mentioned duos.

Of course, ultimately, the warrior who works alone does not need to share the fame (and earning?) with anyone. Bi-Han is the best example of that (Mythologies: Sub-Zero, Mortal Kombat novel (1995) or his bio from the original game). And yes, every warrior should be capable of completing the job, but though weak Lin Kuei fighters may look superhuman in Earthrealm they will not last long in Outworld.

And that brings us to another important matter:

→ the place of activity.

Because those who work frequently in Outworld by default should be considered better in the combat area. But at the same time, Lin Kuei must have a wide and well organized spy network, to keep track of all potential recruits (Smoke and Cyrax), access to science research and laboratories and so on. So, especially in modern times, combat skills may not be the most appreciated feature anymore and some Lin Kuei warriors, no matter how weak they are compared to others, will still have their special value to Grandmaster’s plans. Due to the nature of spying, they could also work alone or in small groups far from their homeland. Thus, operate outside the social hierarchy established between other warriors.

→ Punishments

A warrior could die on mission at any moment, but also could be killed for various offenses, such as:

Leaving the clan - punished by death and this seems to be a consistent punishment in all sources. Of course a determined warrior could manage to successfully run away (like Takeda, the founder of Shirai Ryu or Kuai Liang did) but Lin Kuei does not forget such crime and will hunt down the fugitive for years. The best example comes from the Mortal Kombat book, in which Sub-Zero spent two decades hunting down his own ex-partner in crime to kill him in a brutal way in front of the man's family.

So even if someone managed to run away and start a new life, there was no escape from the clan's wrath. In the modern time, Cyrax was captured and cyborgized - for him, it was fate worse than death. This actually brings the question, if there were warriors responsible for hunting down fugitives or was it the duty of those whose partners broke the sacred rule of “no one leaves Lin Kuei”?

Failure of mission - another known major crime punishable by death yet most likely not applies to Kuai LIang’s reformed clan.

In the Conquest TV series, by Grandmaster’s order two warriors that failed the mission were killed by then current Sub-Zero. This was as much public execution to show others what happens once you fail as presenting the ice powers of freshly promoted cryomancer:

“Before you stand two who have failed. For this there can be but one consequence and it must come from within, within us. Earth, wind, fire, water. To control one element of the four that make up life is power. A twist of nature, an aberration, one who brings forth true killing force. Before you stand one whose ancestors have passed on such power to us. Remember this well. Behold... Sub Zero. [Grandmaster’s speech, episode 3, “Cold Reality”]”

This is just one example from the distant past but it may also be a suggestion that warriors with special powers played the role of executors.

Another example, from Mythologies: Sub-Zero, thus relative modern times:

Scorpion: Yessss... I am Scorpion. You killed me in cold blood.

Sub-Zero: I had no choice. If I had not stolen that map I would be the dead one.

Frankly this attitude is both inhuman treatment of subordinates (failure in itself is just another source of experiences and sometimes failed mission wasn't the result of someone’s mistake or incompetence but of independent circumstances) and unpragmatic (losing manpower). We may only wonder if warriors were punished for failing all kinds of missions or just selected ones. At the same time, a fighter that survived to old age should be really respected - with such harsh laws, not many members live to old age and those who did through the decades failed little to no missions.

Lin Kuei punished also impostors:

which brings us back to the point about codenames and their relationship with social position (and hey, Noob’s complaints aren’t baseless). We don’t know though what kind of punishment was used for such an offense.

Disobeying Grandmaster was also a big deal. I suspect this could be punished by death too although rather not in Kuai Liang’s clan:

“When Sub-Zero made historic peace with his clan’s enemy, Scorpion, defiant Frost challenged her Grandmaster as unfit to lead. Sub-Zero defeated and banished Frost. [MK11]”

In general, Lin Kuei laws were harsh and cruel and it was really easy to lose such hard-earned privileges and positions.

Recruits

In ancient times, children were abducted at the age of 5 or 6 and forced into harh training. Some didn’t survive but those who did became fully pledged to Lin Kuei warriors. In modern times, it seems like most adepts have some blood-ties to other members of the clan and usually are “given” for training freely. There are exceptions to the rule, like Bi-Han and Kuai Liang, who were stolen from home at a young age. Finally, there are people who seem to join Lin Kuei on their own (or at least they think it was their choice), like Smoke, Cyrax and Frost.

(Tomas and Frost are confirmed users of special powers. Cyrax most likely possesses some unique genes too or at least is capable of well controlling his own energy (chi) during fight. Frankly, it looks like Sektor is the only one named Lin Kuei who does not utilize any special power. Ironically, considering how Grandmaster (Oniro) from Defenders of the Earthrealm was shapeshifter. Who knows, maybe Sektor didn’t inherited father’s unique skills?)

So even recruits are a diverse group to begin with and include people ethnically totally different from the majority(?) who needed to learn a new language(s) and culture from scratch. This alone gives a ground for potential conflicts though there is little to none examples of racism between Lin Kuei adult members? I mean, Lin Kuei used to look down on everyone who wasn’t one of them all the same, with special hatred for Shirai-Ryu - not for being Japanese (different ethinc group) but just for being Shirai-Ryu.

The adepts were trained by older warriors and looking at Sub-Zero’s origin (MK9), some adepts trained with family members (Kuai Liang and Bi-Han and maybe even under their Grandfather’s eye?) and teacher (Sifu?) could train more than one student at the same time.

In a way, those coming from the lineage of warriors could be from the start at better social standing than those who were “no ones” or came from far away lands and needed to earn respect of others. Those blood-related to clan members either developed specific powers during training or at least possesed special DNA that could be passed down to the next generation. So, even if those children weren’t the best of best fighters, they still have something valuable to the clan.

At the same time, again, Sektor doesn’t seem to have any special privileges, not once in game(s) called his father as anything other than Grandmaster and in general, he did not have much presence (respect?) between other warriors. I mean, he freely spoke only with Cyrax who in the end did not listen to him at all and almost always fell silent if there were more people around. So yeah, how big an impact on social dynamic between fighters had their blood-ties is not sure.

I’m not gonna talk much about the life of adepts (and there is a lot to say about potential pathologies and harm done to the kids), but they for sure were the lowest rank in (warrior) hierarchy, at least until they proved their worth.

So, the Lin Kuei warriors could be separated in three categories, from lower social rank to the highest:

adepts (in-training, maybe assisting in missions under the watchful eye of their superiors),

warriors (the one earning income),

veterans (teachers)

and the circle was completed.

(For some reason, the circle of Lin Kuei warrior life resembles the “Three-field system” but I have weird associations, I guess).

Household?

When we talk about the Lin Kuei clan, the first association that comes to mind is its warrior nature. But with such a large organisation, warriors are just one social class rather than the majority. Because someone needs to feed them, cloth, arm, heal, which seems logical to assume that there were other specializations that keep the clan running.

I mean, Lin Kuei is an independent faction that as far as we know, has no ties to any earthrealm government. This alone suggests to keep that independence the clan have to possess their own source of food, water, medical supplies and access to other necessary resources, so no enemy could besiege their strongholds and starve them and so on.

⇒ The medics will be for sure an appreciated branch of the clan. And yes, warriors to some degree must have medical knowledge (if not to save people then at least to know how to successfully kill them) but at the same, with so many specific genes and used in fight elements, some Lin Kuei members may have different medical needs than normal people.

⇒ Armorers (and smiths?) provide clan additional defensive equipment and weapons. And we know that even in modern times Lin Kuei barely used firearms and relied more on shurikens, knives and swords.

⇒ Scientists, computer experts and researchers, especially in modern times when C.I. Project became a thing, most likely playing a big role in the clan, fulfilling Grandmaster’s wish to change warriors into cyborgs. May not be liked by the traditionalist members of Lin Kuei, but favored by the leader (so be untouchable).

⇒ Farmers and craftsmen, providing the clan with the basic needs. I doubt they had much impact on social dynamics and may not even live on the grounds of the Lin Kuei Temple / Fortress. I imagine them living in the surrounding villages (or at the foot of the mountains?), giving the Lin Kuei food and handicrafts (and maybe even their own children?) as a tribute, and in return get protection.

My conclusion is that, Lin Kuei have pretty complex social structures in which Grandmaster and his closes circle administrate the whole system, warriors, depending on their age and expertises, are responsible for earning money and prepare the new generation to replace them, while household is there to keep previously mentioned groups alive and in the best condition. Everyone plays a role that helps to maintain Lin Kuei independence and reputation.

So, finally I get to the main part of the question about the dynamic between characters.

Who outrank who is a good question. The Grandmaster of course is above everyone else and so are the “ancient masters” / inner circle. Bi-Han seems to be one of the favored warriors by Grandmaster, the only(?) one confirmed to be the most cunning assassin and thief and the use of a codename associated with “ancient power” only adds to that impression. So, in regard to the named five characters (him, Kuai Liang, Smoke, Cyrax and Sektor) I would say Bi-Han outranked everyone. At the same time, he does not act arrogant against his fellow clansmen. Okay, to be honest, he seems to not interact much with anyone but that is rather the abrasive, asocial nature of cryomancer than anything else, really. And we have examples from various sources that Bi-Han wasn’t always rude to people around him. (Noob is another deal, but even then he has a more passive-aggressive attitude toward his brother than outright hate / arrogance).

Anyway, Bi-Han outranked the others. And yet, he does not seem to perform any special social functions - except maybe at Grandmaster’s command executing those who failed. In contrast, in MKX intro vs. Sonya, Frost was described by Kuai Liang as “chief among [female Lin Kuei]” which implies her high rank and responsible position in social structures.

One may wonder why Bi-Han most likely wasn’t given similar honor but to be an effective chief, the person must be available and close at hand. Going with Mythologies, the elder Sub-Zero barely came back from one mission (stealing map of elements) to be sent right away for another difficult task (stealing Shinnok amulet and side trip to Netherrealm) and then next one (Mortal Kombat Tournament). Of course, the game due to its limited time and space, won’t focus on realism such as making a proper preparation for the job but even if Bi-Han was allowed little rest between one and another mission, it really looks like he didn’t spend much time at Lin Kuei Temple. Thus there was no point in giving him any big group to oversee, if he wasn’t available to control what was going on between his subordinates. Also, he seems pretty familiar with Smoke and Kuai Liang’s close relationship but there are not many hints that he tried to do something about their breaking clan rules forbidding friendship.

Then again, there is a possibility that Kuai Liang, Smoke, Cyrax and Sektor did in fact belong to Bi-Han’s own “cohort” what could explain

A) why all the five characters are always so closely tied up to each other while the rest of clan members are just a background and

B) why with Sub-Zero’s death everything went to hell between them.

(And again, the amount of duties to female Lin Kuei could keep Frost from leaving headquarters too often, thus no need for partnership with anyone. Because of that, she grew angry at Kuai Liang for “holding her back” and at the same time not respecting enough to grant her the title of Sub-Zero).

Pragmatic resolution to solving inner conflict would be some kind of neutral judge (chief) and the fight for rank and position most likely happened under watch of superior(s). As in, official challenge, especially for top ranks like Sub-Zero. The official fight did not need to end with someone’s death but this could be one of rare situations when a warrior could kill the other fighter - or even the hated teacher / master? - without much consequence. Of course, Lin Kuei proved pragmatism is not always a priority but I strongly believe the clan structures were based on discipline and so arbitrary fights were also severely punished. What is the point of having warriors if they can’t be sent to earn money due to unnecessary injuries? Also, corporal punishment in itself shouldn’t be that big deal for society growing up in brutal ways since early childhood - which is why I suspect that the punishments were administered in public. As a form of humiliation, to force the guilty people to earn respect of fellow warriors again from scratch.

I suspect that warriors could be separated into smaller groups - basing on their special powers or family connection? - that competed with each other. Age could also regulate how one person should act around the others; for example, like youngling around veteran or fully trained fighter. Not sure how this rule could relate to those representing “household”. Were there laws protecting them or could they be bullied/killed on whim? Could warriors even be involved romantically with “servants” / lower class? The good thing from such affair could be the birth of children given to the clan once they were old enough and well, sex with “outsider” in itself can be a good way to relieve the warriors growing tension / stress resulting from living in a brutal environment without complicating things between companions. To be fair, some warriors could have romantic / intimate relationships with each other as well but most likely kept them secret to avoid punishment.

There is also a matter of who and how chose warriors to represent Lin Kuei at Mortal Kombat Tournament. I mean, Bi-Han was always the first choice, supported by the first game and Mythologies but did he choose Sektor and Cyrax as his companions or they naturally were chosen as part of his group or did Grandmaster assign them to Sub-Zero on his own? Dunno but keeping the five named Lin Kuei warriors together through the course of years really makes me think they came from the same, for a lack of better word, a cohort.

Cryomancers most likely stuck together (Bi-Han and Kuai Liang) and Smoke tagged along. Cyrax looks like an easy going type of person who isn't afraid to speak his mind so I wouldn’t be surprised if he were either on good terms with most clan members or pissing the rest while human Sektor, in contrast, is much more introverted, or even withdrawn from social interaction. This is of course only my subjective feeling, but he lacks a dominant presence to make a big impression. Not like the older Sub-Zero or Cyrax. Then we have Tundra!Kuai Liang whose loyalty belongs first and foremost to an older brother than the clan itself and to honor Bi-Han he will get into all sorts of dangerous problems and conflicts not caring for consequences at all. A behaviour that may not sit well with Sektor (even more, if he never had such a strong bond with own father/other people?). Sektor and Kuai Liang have a long history of ideological conflict and I suspect they truly could agree only about not giving up Cyrax’s remains to anyone and whatever was going on, protect the body at all cost.

Interestingly, as much as Kuai Liang and Tomas or Kuai Liang and Cyrax were close and on good terms (especially after the fiasco of C.I. project), Bi-Han and Sektor seem to be much closer to each other. If not in the stricte emotional sense, they at least share the pride in Lin Kuei and strive for perfection (manifesting itself in accepting their drastic changes for example). Even with limited sources, the storyline never(?) put Sektor and Bi-Han against each other, either as humans or cyborg and wraith and I strongly suspect there may be something much deeper about their relationship that lack of interaction on screen could suggest in the first place (x)(x).

Then we have tradition vs technology.

This most likely is a modern issue that could be the basis for serious inner conflicts between warriors. Those taking jobs in Outworld for sure must be powerful fighters, especially since technology is not something working well there. Bi-Han in most if not all sources was a traditionalist who didn’t use much or outright refused to use technology and I wouldn’t be surprised if he worked in Outworld frequently (especially Bi-Han in the newest movie was presented as a close associate of Shang Tsung). For the weaker warriors, advanced technology could be a life-saver. Then there is the whole Cyber Initiative that divided (and ultimately destroyed) Lin Kuei. For such a project, the clan either worked with independent / private researchers and cybernetic experts or actually had its own specialists (another possible social group?).

From MK9 we know Cyrax spoke in public against Grandmaster’s plan. In Defenders of the Realm, Smoke and Kuai Liang run from the clan at the first occasion to avoid such fate. Logically thinking, Sektor (supporter of the advanced technology) should not get along well with Bi-Han (stubborn traditionalist), the same as he fell out with Cyrax, Smoke and Kuai Liang. And yet there is not much evidence suggesting any big conflict between them. Of course, Sektor could simply not speak against his superior(?) the same as he argued with Cyrax but in all fairness, I doubt Bi-Han’s lack of use of technology was a secret not openly critiqued by others. I mean, even comics!Kuai Liang said about his brother that Bi-Han was “stubborn in many ways, refused to utilize modern technology on his missions. A shame, really. He was among the Lin Kuei’s finest --although fast becoming obsolete”. If Sektor and Bi-Han (and the rest of the group) worked together on joint missions, the issue of technology would come sooner than later. Though I suspect that no matter what Sektor would say, Bi-Han outstubborn him anyway. On other hand, it looks like only Sektor needed/chose to use advanced technology (flame thrower) while the rest relied on their special powers. In that case, being Sektor between gifted people for sure was a hard deal.

So, if I have to rank them I would say Bi-Han → Sektor & Cyrax who most likely were at least a bit higher than Kuai Liang (younger cryomancer) and Smoke. In case of conflict, I think as long as it was possible, they solved their problems among themselves. Bringing authority (Grandmaster, one of chiefs(?) or Bi-Han)’s attention was never a good idea because it could lead to public punishment / humiliation. Bi-Han may or may not knock some sense into others if the inner conflict gets out of hand or at least told them into face how idiotic they are (and he is pretty famous for insulting/mocking even those he shouldn’t. Like Quan Chi, a powerful client. Which is why I doubt he would tone down his natural abrasiveness. Especially not for an idiot that actually deserves it ).

And yet, whatever conflict was between those five characters, they still stayed loyal to each other. At least until someone outright broke one of the most punishable laws, like leaving the clan.

For example, Cyrax and Sektor argued about C.I. project - and most likely it was already an ongoing argument between them. Cyrax even was “among those speaking out against the Grand Master’s plan”. Not a good thing for their partnership yet Sektor still vouched for Cyrax when Shang Tsung had his doubts about the man. Or how Bi-Han changed sides during Tournament (MK9) - otherwise his fight against Scorpion would have zero sense - and maybe he did discuss the course of his action with his fellow clan members. But whatever he told or not what was going on, Cyrax was absolutely ready to kill Scorpion to avenge fallen cryomancer (“Scorpion will pay for this!”). Then we have Smoke not abandoning Kuai Liang even though he was already turned into Cyber Sub-Zero and attacked his friend and of course furious Tundra interrupting the Outworld Tournament and literally demanding from the Emperor to bring him Bi-Han’s murderer to kill. Hell, even Noob and Cyber Sektor stick to each other despite everything that happened.

Those five were a really loyal group, weren’t they?

So, in general:

the social structures of Lin Kuei were diverse and complex,

the punishment was harsh and deadly - in some cases, executed by a fellow warrior in public.

Bi-Han most likely had a high position in clan hierarchy but he wasn’t outright called a master

and there is possibility Sektor, Cyrax, Smoke and Kuai Liang worked under his command.

Most of the Lin Kuei members share blood ties to some degree but experiences and skills seem to outrank any family bond. In contrast to friendship, keeping touch with family (within the clan) is rather not forbidden. There may be a conflict between friendship (a choice) and family matters (a fate / tradition of serving Lin Kuei to uphold).

Kuai Liang and Smoke broke clan rules forbidding friendship (and Bi-Han did nothing about that?).

Cyrax most likely were familiar with Tundra and Smoke enough to like / respect each other. In the case of Tomas, the additional factor for keeping together could be the fact that both were born as outsiders (different ethnicity, lack of blood ties to clan).

Cyrax and Kuai Liang had ideological conflict with Sektor, who in turn seems to be on good terms with Bi-Han.

Bi-Han on the other hand seemed to not have any conflict with the four named warriors? Kuai Liang was his brother (and there is no example he was abused in any way by the older sibling, I think?), MK9!Smoke may not be on a first name basis with Bi-Han (didn’t call him in game as anything else than Sub-Zero or Kuai Liang’s brother) but he was accepted as Kuai Liang’s close friend. At the beggining of Tournament, Cyrax was seen on Sub-Zero’s right side and there is the scene-parallel (with Sektor cut off from the frame, the impression is that we were shown the honorable/”good” Lin Kuei) and he showed protectiveness toward Sub-Zero.Then there is Sektor who somehow get along with Bi-Han (and Noob) without any complaints or problems. Of course, Smoke, Cyrax and Sektor could be smart enough to not get in any open conflict with abrasive Bi-Han. Kuai Liang is a whole different matter, I guess.

The named characters in fact didn’t need to like each other but they were taught discipline and loyalty to the group from the start. Though it would be really hilarious if the most abrasive cryomancer with little to no social skills was in fact the one that keep them all together and was a bridge between strong-willed/hotheaded Kuai Liang & Smoke, independent Cyrax and blindly loyal, withdrawn Sektor.

I’m not sure if such a mix of strong personalities was the norm between warrior groups or was it just Bi-Han’s luck to get involved with duos of Tundra-Smoke and Sektor-Cyrax at some point. Anyway, this is my take on social structures and dynamics between Lin Kuei.

Hope it satisfies your curiosity!

[chloe-caulfield94]

Don't EVER say you have a fundamental moral understanding of right and wrong after you said you would sacrifice ~5000 people for some bitch, you cunt

I always relish the opportunity to share my views with others, as long as they are willing to listen. And despite your ... combative attitude, you seem to be at least somewhat willing to expose yourself to opposing views, since you quoted one of the last sentences from my post about Bay Max as a modern-day sin-eater, which means you likely read it in its entirety. So instead of complaining about the lackluster form of your ask, I'm going to engage with its substance.

You brought up the discrepancy in numbers. One life versus many. Of course, generally speaking, the outcomes which benefit a greater amount of people are preferable over the outcomes which benefit a lesser amount of people. But utilitarianism should never be the only lens you're using when analyzing the morality of an action.

Utilitarianism, especially when it becomes simplified to "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" must always be tempered by respect for certain fundamental values, like human life and dignity. Utilitarianism, when it is completely unshackled, can be used to justify just about any atrocity, as long as the outcome of that atrocity benefits the collective. Depriving people of rights, dispossessing them. Killing them. All that has been done in the name of benefitting a greater number of people than the number being "sacrificed".

To stop the Storm, Max would have to kill Chloe. Let's call a spade a spade. She would have to take Chloe from the safety she enjoys on Friday and push her back in front of a barrel of a gun on Monday. To save the town, Max would have to intentionally cause Chloe's death to happen. The death that has already been averted at that point and wouldn't happen again without Max's conscious decision. Imagine seeing someone about to be run over by a car, pulling them to safety and then pushing them under the next car. This is what is required of Max.

While I do believe that generally the outcomes which help the most amount of people should be favoured, I also believe that ends never justify the means. We should look not only at the outcome, but also at the means used to achieve said outcome. And certain means, if they violate fundamental values, are never justified. Using them is always immoral, even if the outcome of such an immoral action would bring benefit to other people.

Killing human beings, unless it is done in self-defense or in the defense of others, is never justified. Outside of the narrow exception of defense, it is always an act of evil. Supreme evil, since human life is the greatest value.

By defense I mean using force to repel an ongoing, unlawful attack from a different person, directed at us or another person that we are stepping up to defend. On Friday at the cliff Chloe, simply by living and breathing, is not engaged in an unlawful attack upon anyone. So killing her would most certainly not be an act of defense, not unless you take all meaning out of that word.

My sense of morality tells me that killing ("sacrificing") a human being is never justified, no matter what it would accomplish. Which is why in any trolley problem my answer is always the same. Do not pull the lever. By pulling the lever you are usurping for yourself the right to decide that someone is less worthy of survival than others. You are usurping for yourself the right to take a human life. In the scenario we are considering, Max using the butterfly photograph to go back to Monday and undo her rescue of Chloe is equivalent to pulling the lever to direct the speeding trolley to the side track. So the moral thing to do for Max is to tear up the photograph. Do not pull the lever. Do not engage with the situation, if the only thing you can do to save the people on the main track is to kill the people on the side track. Because saving the people on the main track doesn't erase or justify the fact that you killed the people on the side track. At the end of the day, you are a murderer. No matter what supposed benefit you achieved with that murder.

The moral standard I presented above is internally consistent, as moral standards should be. It doesn't matter if sacrificing that one person would save 10, or 1000 or a million people. Killing someone is always an act of evil. It is never justified.

I'm curious if the standard you brought up would be equally as consistent. You seem to be under the impression that killing one person to save 5000 is a no-brainer. Would you kill one person to save 10 others? Would you kill one person to save 2 others? Would you kill 50 people to save 51 others? If your standard is consistent, then your answer to all the questions I just asked should be affirmative. Because the reasoning would be the same in all of those cases. Kill a lesser amount to save a greater amount.

But if your answer to at least one of the questions I asked above is negative, then what's the difference? What's the ratio of people being killed to people being saved that makes the killing justified? 10 to 1? 100 to 1? Why that particular number? Wouldn't any number in this context be completely arbitrary?

And if your answer to all those questions was affirmative, if you truly, consistently believe that killing a lesser amount of people is justified if it saves a greater amount, don't you realize how dangerous that mode of thinking is? The belief that killing people is justified as long as it helps the collective is totalitarian thinking. This is the exact type of reasoning that evil regimes throughout history used to justify their actions.

I would never think like that. Human life and dignity is off-limits. It can never be sacrificed. Not for anything. There's nothing noble or heroic about sacrificing other people's lives. It's deplorable.

At the end of the day, even though I'd like to think there are certain moral principles that are universal to all, that's not the case. Unofrtunately, morality is not objective. It's subjective. It's always informed by your peronal beliefs and preferences.

For example, I'm a Christian. The priest in my parish often says in his sermons that ends do not justify the means. I fully agree with that teaching. Certain actions are always evil, no matter what fruit they would bring. Thou shalt not kill. The taking of a human life is always evil, unless in self-defence. For me, that's a moral absolute. But you seem to be following a different moral code, with no absolutes, not even human life. A code where everything is justified under the right circumstances, even murder. As long as the numbers get high enough, as long as it's an "extraordinary" or "exceptional" situation, anything goes.

I believe that no matter what numbers are at stake, there are no exceptions to the protection of fundamental values, like human life.

I'm also an individualist. I believe that certain fundamental rights, like the right to life, can never be sacrificed at the altar of the collective. You seem to be a collectivist, who permits sacrificing individual rights, including the most fundamental right of all, if it serves to achieve some greater goal. For me, no goal is great enough to sacrifice human lives.

Let me leave you with one more question:

What would you do in Max's shoes?

I don't mean what would you do if it was Chloe's life on the line. You seem to hate her. Killing her would be easy for you.

I mean what would you do if it was YOUR best friend, someone you actually care about and you had the choice of killing them to stop a destructive hurricane. Would you kill your own best friend?

If the answer is no, then why do you expect from Max something you would not do in an analogous situation? And Chloe is Max's best friend. Replay the game and count the times Max calls Chloe her best friend, how many times she promises to be at Chloe's side, see how she reacts to seeing Chloe alive after emerging from time jumps, read her diary. You may think they shouldn't be friends, and you are entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't change the fact that they are best friends.

If the answer is yes, do you realize how unhinged of a take that is? Willingness to kill someone you deeply care about, because that would accomplish something?

Sacrificing friends is action movie/video game morality. You know, commander Shepard blowing up Kaidan Alenko with a nuke just so he can have Lt. Williams all to himself. But once you apply real moral standards to that mentality, it becomes indefensible.

One might even say it offends their sense of right and wrong on a fundamental level.