#i got so much guilt you'd think im Catholic

[kyuala]

sometimes im like.. super anxious posting stuff abt my faith bc of the way i live but at the same time... if u cant accept that part of me u cant accept me period

[lucysgraybird]

to show hospitality to angels

pairing: billy the kid x reader

warnings: discussions of religion (brief and light)

title source: hebrews 13:2. i think

a/n: hello ! i am not catholic and thus don't know protocol for catholic mass. generally im like religious lite so im really sorry if my discussions of God are sacrilegious in this, it's just how i conceptualize religion. also i don't think they are sacrilegious, im just preemptively apologizing

Billy was not a religious man, but that didn't mean he never went to church. Call it Catholic guilt, call it respecting his ancestors, but he made it to mass on Easter and Christmas and on rare Sundays if he was particularly missing his ma. 

This particular winter morning saw him in the sanctuary for the Christmas morning service, doing his best to be still and silent. Though these holiday services were longer, he preferred them to the ones on Sunday – the church was prettier, decorated for the season, and there was usually more (and nicer) music. The choir stood behind the pulpit, though admittedly he wasn't paying much attention to the full picture, searching for one singer. Someone had a lilting soprano voice that made the world soft and a little fuzzy at the edges; maybe not trained, maybe not clean, but the kind of voice that played on the outskirts of memories of sleepy childhood nights. Through First Noël and Little Town of Bethlehem he scanned the right of the choir, but couldn't identify quite where the voice was coming from. 

Then, for Silent Night, you stepped forward, a worn book of music clutched open to your chest as you gathered your red-and-green ruffled skirts. Billy had made the early New Year’s resolution to be a little more careful about falling in love, but the moment you began to sing he knew that was out the window. There was a slight tremble in your hands, betrayed by the fluttering paper and betraying your nerves at this solo, but your voice soared clear through the chapel anyways. Every worry Billy had went out the window – the cold and snow that were rolling in, the bounty still on his head, the insecurity of his whole life, all gone at the sound of your voice. There was only here and now, the sweeping melody wrapping around him like a blanket.

It was over in a second. The solo, that is. The feeling it had brought him, the peace he hadn't felt in God knows how long, remained for the rest of the service, until he was standing and scrambling to the front after the final prayer to talk to you.

“Miss?” He said, the brim of his hat crushed in his hands.

You turned, face soft and open. “Yes?”

“I just wanted to tell you that you got a real beautiful voice.”

A smile just about split your cheeks, now dusted with a pink blush. “Oh, thank you! I was so nervous, so I'm glad at least one person enjoyed it. I've never seen you here before. Are you new in town?”

Now it was his turn to flush. “I've been here a couple months. I don't make it to church as often as I oughta, I suppose.”

To his surprise, no judgement sprung up in your eyes. 

“There's no set number of times someone ought to come to mass,” you said. “We all have lives. Church is always there when we need a break – or can take one.”

Such a sage statement coming from someone his age, maybe even a little younger, almost made him laugh, but it actually settled the nerves in his chest.

“I thought since you were in the choir, you'd be real pious,” Billy said.

Your mouth turned down in a conspiratorial smile, just this side of letting out a giggle.

“I slip out the back after we sing sometimes,” you confided. “I grew up a preacher’s daughter, and it seems more worth it to me now to go to church when I actually want to be with God, not just because I feel like I have to.”

“I like that,” he said thoughtlessly, and immediately felt stupid for the simplicity. 

It earned him a toothy grin, though, and you brushed your hand against his arm.

“I have to get home now, but I would like to see you again. I'm a teacher at the schoolhouse in town, so you can find me there every afternoon.”

His surprise at your interest in him manifested in silence, and you dropped your hand in shame.

“I'm sorry, that was incredibly forward of me. If-”

“No! No, I want to see you again too. I'll come by the school on, say, Friday? If you're not too busy?”

“Not at all. Just tell me your name, so I know who I'm welcoming?”

“William,” he said, something about you making him desperate to be proper, then desperate to be honest. “Billy.”

“Well, Billy, it was lovely to meet you.”

You cast a glance around the room, then rose on your toes to press a kiss to his cheek before leaving to get your coat. What a strange tableau you would've created, he thought, had anyone seen you: the lips of a preacher's daughter on the skin of an outlaw. It was almost something out of a dime novel. It wasn't until you were surely long-gone that he realized he had never caught your name.

[starzzmissthesun]

drop the bartylus song explanations bestie (pls pls plssss plsplss)

Hiiii!!!! Sorry this a little late I've been a little busy the past couple days! This ones definitely gonna be a long one, but i might skip a few songs, so if their are any other ones you'd like to hear about lmk!! Some of these i associate with one of them in particular rather than both. The relation to them and the song is not necessarily what i interpret the song as, but just how it fits and relates to them!!! (also guys dont judge me for the music taste)

Trees-Mcafferty

So this one is very much like catholic/religious guilt, but is even just like being in a family and culture (like the purebloods, like the blacks) that is very very homophobic and strict. The first verse says "my mom was a christian, my dad is an alchie, i bet that he kills me", this to me is very regulus in the whole, walburga being someone who was brought up in a strict and 'be perfect' way, which she then puts onto her kids. And orion someone who is way harder on them, no room for repenting, just damnation. Though they both could represent this song, for they both had such controlling and strict home lives. I feel like it also, especially towards the ends of the song, talks about being different and "wrong" and a freak, feeling just so outcasted and trying to fit in, but never being able to.

If I Saw Him, Id Still Kiss Him-Mcafferty

This is veryyyy Barty's POV after Regulus died. It describes a house filled with ghosts and memories. Barty wishing they ran away instead "Lets go to italy, just you and me, i think wed really like it there", thinking that maybe regulus wouldnt have had the fate he did if they left the whole war behind. It describes the depression and loss of self/hope throughout the rest of this war. The verse from "took a picture of a picture" to "Get to New York for the sunsets" to me, describes how regulus had a different relationship to him than anyone else. I mean this song to me is especially sad if you think of it as they never really got together it was just an almost/what if?

Blue Eyes Like The Devils Water-Mcafferty

This is another Barty POV song to me, but its overall just a description of them being in bad situations and them falling for each other was just making everything better and worse at the same time. This shows how they were kind of raising themselves, both parents ignoring them so long as they do what theyre supposed to. It's just the two of them kind of deal.

The Lions Den-Mcafferty

Another song about them going down together, Barty POV again too. He sees Regulus falling more and more into this dark obsession and going down together. I especially think of the lions den as The Cave, especially in a Barty went with him Au. Him watching regulus getting pulled down everywhere, in his dreams, in real life, hallucinations. "I still remember his eyes on mine" The guilt consuming him, wishing he went with him too. Going crazy because of it "Let me break, let me slip to the bottom of this hill, let my body fall into the pit, into the lions den" and "this is just a bad dream, everybody wakes up soon" convincing himself its not real, that one day hell wake up and regulus will be ok, so everything is. Or the "waking up" is death, he wishes to fall under the water aswell, to die, to be at peace with regulus.

Alligator Skin Boots-Mcafferty

This song is regulus when he's had his change of mind, when he's decided to sacrifice. It starts with him kind of comparing himself to his parents and their complacency and their being messed up. Then from "Im cold to the touch" to then end, is him in the cold waters dying, for his friends who are now in the order, and hoping the others will be safe once the war is over, too.

Pine Point-PUP

Ok so this ones very special to me for them! To me, its them both looking at each other as they go their own way once they've lost each other in the war. "where i kept my eye on the prize, it was you" Barty going crazy after loosing reg, Regulus seeing barty get more and more into the death eater stuff right as he is changing his mind. They have such a intertwined history and memories. Now they're both praying they're doing right for the other, and that the other is doing something right. Bonus points for this song: mentions of loosing an older brother, also just like an awesome breakdown riff.

Just gonna saying im not gonna go into the pheobe bridgers ones rn cause soo many of her songs are them (specifically reg's pov in my mind) but if anyone wants me to, lmk.

Geyser-Mitski

This is the yearning for your best friend song!!! Like just being like, "is this not enough? i have everything, yet i still want to be more with you" To me, its so them cause of the "ive turned down every hand that has beckoned me" cause i think they never would even consider being with anyone else, its JUST the other for them. And also "I will be the one you need, i just cant be without you" is their obsession and need to be with eachother, and the way they idolize each other, the need to be congruent. The whole song just describing a love so strong it builds up inside you, it calls to you, but pushing it down ruins you from the inside out.

Old friend-Mitski

This is in a scenario where they've broken up(which would never be by their choice imo). Idk i feel like if they ever broke up, itd be similar vibes to these lines: "I havent told anyone, just like we promised, have you?" "everytime i drive through the city where youre from i squeeze a little" "Ill take anything you give me". Do you see the vision?? Drowning mention too!!! It's more of a mentally/emotional drowning(like in depression/insanity, etc). in my mind the "someone whos loves me now, better than you" would be less of a literal statement, and more of a hope or a wish. Like they each would be unable to be together because they each have to be with a person who is "better" for them, since they enable each other to be really themselves. It's denial that they actually want the love the other gives.

Me and my husband AND two slow dancers-Mitski

Literally regulus as he's drowning in the cave. He's remembering barty, all of their shared memories, and praying that theyll "stick together" like they always have. Two slow dancers, maybe his afterlife. Or his last thoughts that lull him to "sleep". In the chaos of the hands and air squeezing out of his lungs, hes brought back to a memory of them. They both wish they could go back to before the whole mess, "to think that we could stay the same" hes criticizing himself for hoping the two of them could join this war and stay as they were.

I will-Mitski

ok, picture me this: regulus lives AU!! Maybe Barty went with him, or found him, or reg goes to him after the cave, but nonetheless!!! He's weak, hes scared for defecting, theyre both at odds. But all Barty can do is take care of him, and reassure his fears, though he, himself, is feeling those as well. Just like listen to the lryics:(((

Crack Baby-Mitski

This is Regulus watching Barty get more and more obsessive over Voldemort, as he's slowly doing the opposite. Reg knows Barty doesn't notice and doesn't know why he craves this approval, but Regulus does, he can tell. "With wild horses running through your hollow bones" that father figure voldemort is to barty is something he need so bad, its unstoppable. Just like that, dark magic, the murder. He caught a taste of it, and he can't go back.

Once more to seeyou- Mitski

(starts shaking) They can't be seen together, not just the homophobia of the time, and pretentiousness of their families, but their families hating each other. "but with everybody watching us, our every move, we do have reputations" GOD tell me that's not them!! They are both in such "important" families, for two opposing beliefs, that taught them they must hold themselves to high expectations to keep up the family name. Everyone's eyes are on them both!!! Rumours start easy!!! "and felt the taste of you bubble up inside me" Having so much love for each other, but having to hide it!!! It destroys you!!! Having to hide your emotions and wants not just in public, but to your family as well, and just wanting and yearning for the fairytale domesticity!!!

Im your man-Mitski

Everyone's like, this is barty to reg. NO!!! Its regulus to barty!!! REGULUS was the one who grew up in the pureblood culture/beliefs, he might've been the one to convert barty, to introduce him to it. i could quote the entire song, but i wont... BUT!! This is, to me, Regulus towards the end of his life. He's changed his mind, and now he sees how he destroyed Barty, how he guided him to voldemort, and told him all of his beliefs. How, in his old, skewed view of the world, he was "turning" barty away from what he now saw as the right way. He wishes barty chose someone else, who wouldnt've done that. And now, standing at the edge of the water, he can feel his death, his fate coming close. He knows that it was his choice to be so horrible. And now, after leading barty astray, hes leaving him there, hes betraying not only voldemort, but the love of his life.

The frost-Mitski

Barty's all alone. All of his friends are dead, his family is gone, regulus is missing and betrayed him. "youre my best friend, now ive no one to tell, how i lost my best friend" he not only lost regulus, he lost the only person who would truly know how he feels about it. He feels resentful towards regulus, not for betraying him, but that he was never told!! did he forget? did he think he wouldnt understand? Did something change? Did nothing change and he never really knew Regulus like he thought he did? Should he have seen it coming, but he was to busy pretending everything was ok? "but me, i was hiding, or forgotten"

Heaven-Mitski

Either one of them POV reminiscing over the last time they were together, regulus before his death, and barty after regulus' death. Equating their love to heaven, the love they have for eachother is religious. Very love song by LDR. Both sensing their fate coming near, the calm before the storm. Regulus knows hes going on a self sacrificing mission, and barty knows his mind is unraveling quicker and quicker as the days go on.

When memories snow-Mitski

"and if i break, could i go on break? be back in my room, writing speeches in my head" Barty is crazed with guilt, hes breaking. Hes replaying the last conversation, moment, argument, touch, glance, anything he had with regulus. Looking for anything different he could have done instead that wouldve changed the outcome. His memories are mixing together, he cant remember what actually happened and when. Those memories snow and they obscure his view of reality.

Early sunsets over monroeville-MCR

STOP!!! Barty is grieving!!!! "running away and hiding with you, i never thought theyd get me here." him staying down low enough that he wasnt suspected to be a DE, he ran away from his dad to be a DE. He thought they could never find him, and now his soul is close to being taken from him, til hes nothing. all he has left are jumbld memories. "but would anything matter if youre already dead? and should i be shocked by the last thing you said?" The betrayal means nothing, for regulus is dead, who is he supposed to be mad at? and maybe he shouldve seen it coming, maybe there were signs. He can never go back. "and in saying you loved me made things harder at best, and these words changing nothing as your body remains" Regulus loving him makes the hurt only worse, and admitting that to himself hurts even more. No matter any scenario in which he said something different, where he begged regulus not to go, or that hed leave with him, or they never joined in the first place matter, because regulus is still dead, his body is still at the bottom of that lake.

Living legend-Lana Del Rey

This is Regulus POV!!!! He worships Barty, he idolizes him. "..all the things you do, and the ways you move, send me straight to heaven." He regrets never telling Barty just how much he loved him, and he regrets having to betray him "and darling i never meant to defy you" This is set to me, once again, once hes changed his mind and is going on his mission. "I never meant to be bad or unwell, i was just lving on the edge right between heaven and hell, and im tired of it." trying to balance how he feels about barty once hes switched beliefs, he still is utterly devoted to barty and loves him, but they now have these huge opposing beliefs. and he cant help but blame himself. That part right after the last chorus that is just "why?" over and over and over again.

Mojo Pin-Jeff Buckley

This song is literally describing still feeling your lover there, long after they are gone, and feeling conflicted about how you should feel. "Dont want to weep for you, dont want to know" maybe barty is conflicted, he doesnt want to know what happened to reg or why, he knows he wont like the answer. he doesnt want to accept regulus is gone, and he doesnt want to accept why hes gone. "oh the welts of your scorn. my love, give me more, send whips of opinion down my back, give me more" Barty has now changed his mind, he realizes that he would rather know, he would rather regulus had gave him reason, then he couldve gone with him, and maybe he wouldnt be dead. As long as he's still getting something tangible from his lost lover.

Oh my GOD!!! go listen to ghost of you by My Chemical Romance, every single lyric is barty after regulus died, im not doing this one, cause id have to to just say every line, but PLEASE look at the lyrics and think of them!!! JUst some of the lines are: "if i died wed be together", "all the things that you never ever told me", "ever get the feeling that youre never alone?", "And all the smiles that are ever gonna haunt me" like please somebody help barty!!!

Yours, mine, hours-mcafferty

So, first of all, this song switches from regulus' POV to barty's at the lyric "and i wrote all of my songs..." just to be clear. Regulus wants to be the perfect son for his family, and he takes it too far in the process. "and you are innocent, at least you wish you finally were, you gotta keep your head up, but not too high, cause youll lose sight of what youve got" He doesnt realize barty is in the DE stuff just as deep as himself until hes changed his mind. "and im sorry, my love, that i ruined what we had" hes betraying barty, hes abandoning them. Then every line from bartys POV is just perfect. "he says 'i miss my brother, but hes not coming home, and i know that hes better, so its tie to grow up'." i mean COME ON? "you were my best friend, so i will love you 'til the very, very end" They both have so much guilt and regret and have wronged each other, but they still cant bring themselves to hate each other.

Anyways! im done for now!!! but if anyone wants my thoughts about them (about anything really) in relation to a song lmk!!it doesnt have to be angsty! also sorry if this is long and doesnt make sense:/

[actualbird]

hi zak! I saw the tags you left on a reblogged post about Luke and suffering in relation to catholicism and that made me think. one of my classmates used to mention "the catholic guilt" (particularly about having desire), and I just thought it fits Luke so well. He felt so guilty about loving Rosa (and leaving her alone...) for so long T-T. Also, I'd love to hear more of your thoughts about catholic and filipino luke if you'd like to write about it!

irt to these deranged tags i left on this post abt suffering as salvation and luke forever ago, screencapped below for reference

hello hello! sorry this response took Ages but now im finally down to answer this so....

//steeples hands.....is luke pearce catholic coded? to Me, yes, and ive been casually throwing around this concept ever since 2021 HAHA. the filipino bit is actually just me projecting, so i wont go too much into that, but the religious bit Is something i wanna talk about. and i apologize in advanced for how long this response is gonna end up being

quick disclaimer b4 i start tho: im Not a theologian or an expert in religious theory, im just some guy who went through over a decade of catholic school and lives in the philippines, a primarily catholic country. this whole response is not saying "catholicism bad." it's more the institutions from where we experience catholicism from can twist it into something harmful, and i got to experience that first hand and how it affects one's view of themselves

ANYHOO, LET'S START FROM THE BEGINNING

like....the Beginning beginning

part 1: in the beginning, adam and eve did an oopsie so now we're all saddled with original sin (i swear this is important to luke pearce, bear with me)

quick recap on those who are unfamiliar: in the book of Genesis, god told adam and eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge. and then they did. this was the first ever sin in the history of humankind, and it is inherited by all humans through birth. so like, yay, happy entrance into the world, newly born baby child! you are guilty of sin already. this original sin is most usually absolved though through baptism, so it's not too much of a problem. but what im interested here is less of the nitty gritty semantics and more of the concept this all puts forth:

that under catholicism and similar denominations, a child, somebody who has not done any wrong at all, is inherently tainted by sin

now, the Good reaction to sin or any wrongdoing one has done is to recognize it and to atone for forgiveness. and within the "recognition" part is where guilt lies. functionally, guilt has a purpose. it makes us realize that we had done something wrong, it makes us feel remorseful, and it adds motivation to atone, to turn a new leaf, and to be better. in healthy amounts, guilt is useful and a natural part of being conscious over the things you do. and in unhealthy amounts, guilt is agonizing.

but thats for stuff you actually Did.

if the thing you are guilty for isnt actually something you were responsible over, the guilt cant do anything to make any of it better. you cant be a better person from it, because you didnt even do it. it just sits there, making you feel horrible for something that was out of your control. but because guilt is a Good thing to do, it doesnt matter if it's functional or not. it needs to stay. because it's Good, and the sin youre saddled with (whether or not you were responsible) is Bad

now let's bring in luke

luke's parents died when he was very young. this led him to living with mc's family, and a huge insecurity and fear he had from the beginning was that he felt guilty for burdening them, for stealing the love and care from mc's parents when that shouldve been for mc alone. the story SSR Shape Of You goes into this particular childhood experience extensively (and i highly reccommend it to anyone who hasnt read it yet), and tells us that his guilt was so bad that he wanted to run away and even erase himself from existence.

but luke didnt even do anything wrong

at the time, he was a child. he had no bearing whatsoever in the accident that killed his parents, he had no sway over who wouldve ended up looking after him, he had no control over the situation. like a newborn baby born under catholic doctrine, luke finds himself inherently tainted by and guilty for the circumstances that landed him to where he was.

this kind of pattern is going to follow him for the rest of his life, and the concept of inherent sin and inherent guilt begins to evolve. if luke can find himself guilty for things out of his control, then he can also find himself guilty for things that arent even sins in the first place

key example: love

like you said, luke feels immense guilt over loving mc. but why? love is the opposite of a sin, afterall.

it's just a sin when luke does it. because luke sees himself as inherently bad, and sees mc as inherently good. he sees himself as unworthy of her or someone who will just bring pain into her life, and causing pain someone you love is bad. if love is the knife he uses to hurt someone he loves, then that love is bad. that love should not be realized, and luke should feel guilty for even yearning for her.

by this point i think it's obvious that original concept has become twisted and overly punishing, even cruel. and thats because:

a lot of institutions teach catholic doctrine in an unhealthy and harmful manner. this is why many catholics and lapsed catholics experience The Catholic Guilt(TM). what was originally a pretty reasonable thing gets blown out of proportion from the places we learn these things from, and then getting exposed to this for majority of our lives lets it worm its way into our brain where it'll tend to stay

and if one's brain also has a tendency for self hatred and/or mental illness........well. it all gets worse.

it's clear in canon that luke is uhhhh not the most mentally well individual. his guilt is so overwhelming that it's the driving force in so many of his choices, stories, and experiences. which is big reason #1 for why luke just seems so catholic to me, because of the sheer intensity of his guilt and how he sees himself as inherently bad and unworthy.

but in the roadmap of sin, thats only the beginning. because the process goes:

sin (bad) -> recognition of the bad aided by guilt (good) -> atonement to become better (good)

which leads to big reason #2

part 2: suffering, pain, and misery as atonement

it's important to note that catholicism does not posit that "suffering is good", but there is a clear pattern of veneration for people who endure suffering under noble causes. many, many people in catholic history have been martyred (and many also sainted), one of the biggest examples being jesus himself.

pain is not good, but someone who chooses to take it on for good reasons (self-sacrifice, martyrdom, putting others above one's self) or stays good in spite of all the pain they experienced (unwavering faith, a heart of gold), well, THAT person is good.

however, like a lot of stuff in catholicism, things get twisted into extreme variations because of how it gets taught or experienced. it doesnt take a genius to see how "people who endured pain for good reasons were brave and devoted people" can transform into "to experience pain is inherently noble" when you take into consideration that many sins (like, of the seven deadly sins variety, pride, sloth, lust, etc etc) are variations of indulgence.

specifically over-indulgence, yes, but there's a dichotomy now. here, in the list of Good Stuff are things that feel not-so-good, and over in the list of Bad Stuff are things that do feel good

bad stuff is a sin, and from part 1, sins are things you should be guilty for

and now, to feel good is also bad, so you should be guilty for that. which reinforces the concept that to feel bad is good.

congratulations, you've unintentionally glorified suffering and demonized pleasure! //sad trumpet noises

you can see this kind of thinking pretty clearly in luke pearce. there are the big examples like the previous one i brought up, where he feels so guilty for his feelings for mc. but it appears even in smaller casual situations, like in his 1st birthday event story. this moment was seared into my brain

"can i look forward to this?" is indicative of hesitating in the face of happiness. even something as mundane as anticipating a birthday surprise is something to be approached with caution, feels too good to be true, to be allowed, because feeling good is bad and luke doesnt see himself worthy of it

but okay, we're all guilty now of the horrible sin of enjoying life. what comes next? atonement, becoming better, growing from the bad to become good, right?

and what better way to cleanse one's self from the sin of feeling good but through the nobleness of enduring pain?

luke is guilty over the sin robbing burdening mc and her family -> thats okay he's leaving for college anyway! wont be able to burden them there -> oopsie the NSB happens but hey at least this lone wolf suffering is a great way to atone for his past sin -> oh god the guilt of abandoning mc though -> oh GOD the mission that killed everybody but him -> NEW ACHIEVEMENT: SURVIVOR'S GUILT ON TOP OF THE CATHOLIC GUILT! -> oh GOD he's even guiltier now of his feelings for mc because of his illness, he'll only bring pain to her, how selfish of him to have feelings like this, bad and wrong -> the best way to handle this is to stay away from her to let her live in peace (lacking the pain that luke will bring) and deprive himself of her who brings him joy (inflicting pain of separation onto sinner as punishment) -> the path to salvation (to being good, because only in being Good is someone worthy of love) is through constant suffering and endless self-deprivation

kinda insane how luke's self-perceived sins and self-inflicted sufferings gain compound interest of misery, but his spiral into self-loathing is littered with this kind of nonsensical "because i did [THING], i should deserve pain/NOT deserve happiness"

for luke, suffering became the mode of atonement, it became the solution for sin and guilt.

part 3: conclusion

to wrap this all up, i wanna make it clear that i dont necessarily think luke is like, catholic in the story. nor is even it a headcanon i have. it's more that the intensely self-punishing thought patterns luke has in relation to guilt and suffering are very, very familiar. it resonates in a way that is horridly relatable to people who have experienced these specific catholic experience woes, but it can also resonate in completely different ways to other people as well.

but given that....yeah. based on my own experiences, all this //gestures at too-long response, is why i keep using catholic language and imagery whenever i talk about luke. it's so familiar. he's so familiar. luke would not be out of place in a filipino catholic high school crying during a 3 day retreat

thanks for the ask!!!

[simptasia]

Hello! Im so sorry to bother but i just got back into Lost again and charlie has given me brainrot especially Trans Charlie and i was wondering if you had any specific hc or things like that? I really love Hurleys and Charlies friendship and i always feel when he finds out he's not only super supportive but also super chill

oh gosh! you're not a bother at all!

i do have specific trans charlie HCs and i never get to talk about this so thank you!

tw: references to trans/homo/biphobia both external and internal. and trans subject matters like transition, dysphoria, surgeries etc

there are many many words under here. so many :)

charlie realised he's trans when he was 5, that is to say, he realised he's a boy pretty much as soon as the concept of Boy could take root in his mind. picture 5 year old charlie walking into the kitchen and loudly announcing "i'm NOT a girl, i'm a BOY" to his parents and liam

the reaction is mostly amusement. liam laughs because he's 7. but yeah i do think his family assumed this was like, a tomboy phase that charlie would grow out of with time. but were still very cool with it. simon notes "i have two boys now ^_^", and megan offers to cut charlie's hair, which he happily accepts, he hated looking like a girl

over time it's clearly not a phase but the notion of charlie = boy, son, brother becomes second nature to the pace family. liam gets in the habit of calling charlie "baby brother" so he doesn't accidently call him his sister and that nickname sticks forever

so basically charlie's family is not transphobic. like i imagine the worse you'd get from these three is ignorant/well meaning comments. (and yes, simon was more bothered by charlie being a musician than him being trans. bless your strange heart, papa pace)

any bigotry charlie suffered in life, both from being trans and bi, was mainly from school and people he met outside of home (like, nasty groupies for example). i imagine he received slurs that typically apply to sapphic people. because his schoolmates assumed he was a butch lesbian. i can see charlie wishing they'd call him the right nasty words

charlie has a vicious combination of confidence and insecurity so theres bursts of "yeah i'm a bloke, i'm bi, what of it" and other times deep internal shame. and he's catholic too so that adds to the uh oh soup. i mention him being bi because i feel that adds to his guilt, like this notion of "even if i'd stayed a girl, i'd still be doing something wrong. i'd still be wrong"

and i think this shame and insecurity ties into his promiscuity, because he has this desperate need to be desired and validated. people wanting him, taking pleasure from him, gives charlie a sense of self worth. same with his need to be useful and have attention, etc, basically all that fucked up charlie jazz (...or punk rock, as it were)

ahem, heh, didn't mean to go down that road but writing meta about charlie is such an easy well for me to fall into. it's a rich tapestry

in regards to hurley. 2004 was a different time (gosh that feels weird to say) but i don't think its out of character to imagine hurley is cool with it. he doesn't fully, like, get it but he's like "that's great, dude" and that reaction is always a relief to get. hurley is the cis straight friend we all deserve. i think there are lost characters who would be weirded out by this or needed it explained to them but hurley is [thumbs up]

okay now an assortment of trans charlie headcanons/notes

teenaged charlie had the whole slouching in baggy shirts thing going on (making him look rather grunge). as soon as it was legal for him to get top surgery, he had it, he hated those things. so he had it done at 18, so by the time of LOST, twas 10 years ago and thus i imagine his scars are almost totally faded. you'd have to get real close and if you did you'd notice they're a tad janky because like, charlie was a poor street busker from manchester, he had to go for a really cheap option but hey it got the job done

he did try wearing a binder (i say binder, it was bandages) but he stopped because it was fucking up his ability to sing. it suits charlie that he'd put his musical ability over his physical well being. so most of the time that he had tits he made do with sports bras

side note: age 12 to 16 charlie was in The Worst Mood Ever. teen charlie makes adult charlie seem composed and rational. just a hormonal mess of anger, rebellion, poor posture, dysphoria, sexual discovery, messy greasy red streaked hair, FUCK THE SYSTEM THE WORLD ISN'T FAIR I HATE EVERYONE. with periods as a cherry on top. i just wanted to put the image of teen charlie in your head. i'm just being condescending for funsies, cuz pouty grumpy charlie is cute, but he really did have a lot to be upset about. teen years were rough for charlie, is what i'm saying, his main sources of joy being music, [redacted] and the few friends he had (liam and the other two members of driveshaft). oh and sweet food

but i digress

he has not had bottom surgery. if you asked him why he'd joke "what and give up multiple orgasms?" but the real reason is that charlie has very powerful drive to become a father one day and part of that desire includes with his own. body. so he's kept all the parts needed for that Just In Case. and yes, doing that would majorly trigger his dysphoria but people aren't always rational, charlie least of all. he's a barrel of conflicting emotions. he has good days and bad days in regards to his lower anatomy

charlie takes T patches. i chose these for practical reasons because he's on an island for 3 months. he wears them under his arm and claire assumes they're nicotine patches until she knows charlie is trans. he's wearing each patch for 3 days or more days instead of 1 day like he's supposed to, in order to make 'em last. charlie is clearly an already moody person, but man the concept that charlie is having hormonal issues too really adds to it

and thats something that i really love about my trans charlie headcanon is that i can think of so many canon things that make it make sense. like, the baby brother thing but also

physically: charlie is short, looks rather different to his brother (rounder face) and is hippier than the average cis man. and also charlie has a tendency to puff out his chest (going the opposite of his terrible slouch days cuz now he's titless babey). these are just aspects of dom that happen to work out well for this

story wise: in the show we only see charlie as a child and a grown adult, as such making it easy to fill in first puberty pre transition teenaged charlie off screen. he's possibly 18 in that desmond flashback so cutting it a tad close but i imagine he's had hormonal arrangements for himself since he was 16. and hormones really are fucking magic. also artistic licence, because at the end of the day i am still talking about somebody played a (presumably) cis guy actor

personality: well, besides the aforementioned hormonal mood swings. okay, the stuff i'm gonna say about charlie is not how i see all trans men. i just think being trans ties into certain aspects of charlie's manner. i mentioned before his desperate need for validation, to be useful, to be loved. charlie is really overcompensate-y, he's trying too hard All The Time, one could see that as him like overperforming masculinity. look, charlie has issues, and its clear as day he really really wants to slot himself into the role of husband, father, provider, protector. not inherently a bad thing and certainly not inherently a trans man thing buuut i think it fits. ties into the idea that most of his life charlie has felt the need to constantly prove himself, and that includes things like: a good musician, a good catholic, somebody who can take care of people he loves, being even worthy of love and. being a Real Man. all wrapped up in one confusing mess of a psyche

nah, i got more, still going. furthermore, i don't think charlie being trans is the only reason he's insecure (a rich tapestry) but what if one of many reasons charlie has his nasty jealousy issues with claire is that he thinks so little of himself that he's deeply afraid claire will leave him for a "Real Man". toxic masculinity hurts us all bro. and its not even like charlie is some kind of hypermasculine dudebro or anything like that (he wears nail polish and eyeliner for one thing. he's punk rock) but some odd harmful attitudes come out in subtler ways

to be clear i don't think charlie doubts he is a man but the human mind can be a total fucktruck and i'll say it again: charlie is insecure

anyways. charlie doesn't have a deadname, he was born charlie and he will die charlie. and another neat thing is that theres nothing in the show to suggest that charlie is a variation on charles. he is simply charlie. his middle name "hieronymus" was added by him though, obviously

he had a dildo/strap on packed with him but it was lost to sea during the crash. rip charlie's cock [plays off key flute version of my heart will go on]

he's not out to the wider public. basically in my version of ~canon~ the only people who know are his family, claire and uhh, well, the dozens upon dozens of people he's slept with (charlie's desire to keep this secret vs charlie's rampant desperate lust: the latter always wins). you would think rumours would spread and you're right! but charlie also spreads rumours, sneaky boy. yeah, i heard that the bass player of driveshaft has a big thick cock. a friend of a friend told me, trust me

basically trashy cringe inducing english tabloids have had some things to say about our dear charlie. which only serves to make the concept seem more unbelievable and silly to people. which, as backhanded as that sounds, works for charlie!

i realised i hadn't mentioned this yet: claire is very cool with this. charlie had never been so nervous to come out to somebody in all his life, because he loves claire so much, but once she understood what charlie was telling her (different time, claire didn't know that trans men existed), she rolled with situation. claire's a sweet girl, she's grown up uninformed about queer stuff (and she's bi but thought she was straight until kate) so i imagine her saying some not quite right things but she doesn't have a bigoted bone in her tiny body

and claire never betrays charlie's trust and keeps his secret forever (yeah at least 50 groupies know charlie's trans but thats not the point. it's the principle of the thing)

so yeah. there's defo more, if i like got into more specific scenarios, but thats the gist of what comes to mind and it was still quite a lot, so! thank you for your time