alright chat . it's time for "dissecting the inherent tragedy of transformers: botbots and the relationships in them":
toxic doomed yuri edition ( referring to these two ↑ )
(yes, i made this picmix myself 4 this. i have no regrets. also no tl;dr because you guys NEED to read this)
something i want y'all to understand is that it is Not about the idea that spud wasn't loved. he was VERY much loved by everyone, ESPECIALLY burgertron.
the whole point is that he sabotaged himself in the process of ruining someone else's life, someone who valued him and his word above others. he and burgertron BOTH let their ego get in the way of their personal lives, the only difference is that burgertron at least had the dignity to swallow his pride and apologise when it mattered most.
He gave spud a second chance because he loved him. because he recognised that he does deserve redemption, and above all else, he wants spud to know he cares, even if that means he'll never see him again, or they'll never be friends. (Even in light of the "sidekick" comment, i genuinely don't think he held any inherent malice in that statement. even if burgs was an egotist, he still loved him.)
the worst thing burgertron did in their relationship was be unaware, and im sure that despite his ego, he never meant for spud to get hurt. that's why he went out of his way to protect him, when he couldve just stood there and let spud get put on the back of a truck to never be seen again. it would have been easy.
but he didn't. he did the hard thing. the Right thing. he stood up for someone who never did the same for him.
Spud Was Loved.
Spud Is loved.
and sometimes love isn't going to look pretty, or manifest in holding hands and cuddling, and it isn't all rainbows and sunshine. it can hurt.
it can be letting go of someone who you hurt by accident, who you never meant to harm, but it happened anyways because you made the fatal mistake of being oblivious.
And that's what Burgertron did. he let Spud go, because he understood they both needed time to heal on their own terms. regardless of if he's mad at him or not, he does still harbor positive feelings for him, and he stood up for him during times he probably shouldn't have. If he ACTUALLY hated spud, he wouldn't have stuck his neck out for him at bot prom. or believe spud when he was lying through his teeth in the games.
And that's what makes them so tragic. perhaps in another world, another life, they'd have been Actual good friends, who truly stuck by each other. maybe things would have been different.
But we'll never know that now, will we?
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I honestly feel bad for Hunter. Having neglectful parents suck, I can see why he’s so attached to Kevin. Especially considering they’ve been friends since third grade (I think). I’d be scared if my friend started running off with some chick too tbh. Because now it’s not just us anymore.
[although Hunter still has Robbie, I love Robbie]
You and me both, Anon 💔
[prev ask for context]
And you’re preaching to the choir about neglectful parents lmao there’s a reason I relate to him so heavily. More like about a million reasons but that’s beside the point.
I agree and I definitely think it plays a very large part. Even the band’s name changing is symbolic of that loss of the illusion of them that Hunter was living under. I didn’t touch on it much in the previous analysis because I was trying to stay focused on his parental issues. But when discussing his attachment to Kevin in any way it’d be an oversight to ignore the fact that Hunter is in love with him. Dare I say canonically.
“When I first got the script, the first thing which popped out to me was that Hunter seemed like he was in love with Kevin.”
– Adrian Greensmith
It's how Adrian played Hunter. It's as close to canon as it can be without it being in the script.
Although I do not think that it's entirely necessary to accept him being in love with Kevin for the following to make sense, it does enrich it imo.
So in my mind he subconsciously believes that Kevin and he are something. Something more than simply best friends. Not that he’s able to realize that. He automatically pushes everything down the second he feels it. Unless it's anger, of course. [emotional regulation issues | father]
You can see him repress his emotions so clearly here.
And yeah, the bandname. In the same scene, we get a quote I always read entirely too much into love to analyze deeply. Watch how he says it. It means way more to him than it should.
Skullfucker is them. It's Kevin & Hunter. It's his idea of them and their future. Of touring and performing together. Of striding into adulthood together.
His preceding "You can't. You can't-" is him practically begging Kevin not to abandon him. [abandonment issues | mother]
"You can't leave me because we are Skullfucker. Skullfucker is us. You can't break us. You can't throw me away, you were supposed to be the one that doesn't throw me away because we're us. You can't break Skullfucker."
It makes sense that Skullfucker is quite a 'strong' and over-the-top, even violent name. It's everything Hunter wants to project outward to protect himself and what he has with Kevin.
Aside: it changing to Skullflower, which has a softer connotation while still befitting a metal band, can easily be read as symbolic of Hunter being forced to learn it's okay to be vulnerable as well. But that'd be a tangent and a half.
Kevin is shattering his entire world in the scene. He's taking a fucking sledgehammer to it.
"You need me a lot more than I need you. Without me all of your dumb fantasies disappear. But without you I might actually live a real life." - Kevin Schlieb
"Dumb fantasies" can be read as the more obvious. Namely, their band making it big while Hunter has to make zero compromises to his vision.
Or there is the arguably more painful version. Hunter's dumb fantasy is them. Them together. Them being anything. Which certainly all falls apart without Kevin.
Aside: I wish to note that while I think Kevin makes a good number of painfully accurate points during this fight, I don't think he means all of it at his core. It's said in the heat of the moment and should thus be taken with a grain of salt.
"You need me a lot more than I need you. Without me all of your dumb fantasies disappear." These lines I view as painfully accurate.
"But without you I might actually live a real life." This one I think is not to be taken entirely at face value. It is said in anger with the intention to hurt in my opinion. And it works. But it's not what Kevin actually thinks.
He lashes out after this. As it's the only way he knows how to deal with anything and it beats having to examine why this is shattering his very being. [emotional regulation issues | father]
Aside: let it not be thought that I in any way condone his actions leading up to this scene. While the speech class scene is my favorite scene in the movie, Hunter's actions in it towards Emily are inexcusable.
And the consequences that follow are something he brought upon himself.
There is also a case to be made for this being an example of or affected by Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, as I view all the members of Skullflower as being AuDHD (ADHD + Autistic).
But to circle back to Kevin running off with Emily...yeah. Of course that shatters him. Kevin is the only person that he feels safe around and on top of that he's in love with him.
His bubble of safety and his presumption that Kevin is his are turned to dust before his eyes and he doesn't even know why it's hitting him as hard as it is.
Also yes, they have indeed been best friends since third grade.
"Hunter's been my best friend ever since he stopped Molly Levine from pulling out my hair in third grade" - Kevin Schlieb
And yes, Robbie rules. We love Robbie in this household. I love that he's someone Hunter can also lean on. Even if it does have to be through very heavy projection.
And a hug. You can't fault a good hug.
I will emphasize tho, he never actually loses Kevin.
He couldn't. The way in which he thought he lost Kevin was a way he never had him to begin with. Kevin is still his best friend, still his bandmate and still someone who is safe and who is there for him. Kevin was just angry at him (and for good reason, let's be real). But he wasn't actually abandoning him. Hunter only felt like he did. [abandonment issues | mother]
Look no further than the fact he broke him out of Rehab. He came back for him because that is what Kevin does. Even if he gets mad, even if they fight, even if Hunter acts entirely out of line, Kevin is never gone. Never lost.
There will be consequences, absolutely. But he'd have to do a lot worse to actually lose Kevin for real.
Tune in next time, where I will explain why Hunter and Kevin's relationship fits a BDSM bratting dynamic /j ANYWAY-
I do think their relationship is special. Just not necessarily in a way that involves kissing, unfortunately for Hunter.
Thank you so much for asking, Anon 🤘
If you are the same Anon from last time, then thank you again.
I enjoy going on these incomprehensible rants and I'm massively thankful for being asked about my special interest like this.
It's very nice ^-^
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this is kinda vent-y and i don’t know how to explain this better but— i miss sanders sides. and i miss when the fandom was truly active. you can only do so much fanon content after such a long ‘’hiatus’’ (if we can even call that). i miss the sides, i miss seeing any new official tss content and getting so happy from it that my face hurts from smiling so much. i miss being fascinated by fanarts, i miss seeing familiar usernames from people that are (to a certain degree) well known in this fandom in my dash. i miss searching for new fics to read every once in a while because i have a Very Specific Taste and have already sorted through all that had my interest. i got into this fandom in late 2019, and even by that time it wasn’t ‘’very active’’ compared to earlier years i guess, but compared to now, it was thriving.
it’s just kinda... disappointing. i thought i would never get uninterest in sanders sides or thomas’ content in general, but now i see myself every day more and more far away from whatever it is that he creates. i still think thomas is an amazing and talented person, but... there’s been a while i haven’t got excited for his content.
i really liked roleslaying with roman, and the characters and pretty much everything about the series. it’s so fun and has a lot of potential fandom/fanon wise, but i think it can’t help but live in sanders sides’ shadow. specially with the name being roleslaying with ROMAN, even though they’re different version of the same characters, we associate one thing with another. i didn’t really mind the merch videos at first, but considering we haven’t had a new tss episode in over a year... it’s getting embarassing. like really, really embarassing. like, i wouldn’t release a new merch for a series i haven’t produced for in more then a year because i would genuinely be ashamed of myself for doing so.
it’s just really unfortunate that it has come to this situation. i get that the season finale is a big project, but he has been working on it for AT LEAST over a year (and i’m not exaggerating). meanwhile several other videos have come out. i mean, of course he doesn’t owe us anything but... even considering from a productive point of view -- it takes a lot of time and effort from script writing, costume prepping, songwriting, filming, editing, all of that -- i personally feel like there is no reasonable explanation for a new episode taking this long to come out. it’s not like he’s procastinating, he’s just neglecting it and hoping people will forget about it.
sanders sides got me lots of positive experiences -- a fun fandom, new friends, amazing fanon creations, incredible characters with so much potential for more development... it was what got me into gifmaking in the first place, but now there is just... i don’t really get excited about it anymore.
it kinda feels like we, the audience, have been left in a limbo. even if thomas’ would come out and say ‘’hey sanders sides is gonna be discountinued’’ it would be... at least SOMETHING. like we would know better than having blind faith and waiting for new content, you know. either get it done or end it, i don’t know.
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