#im sure canon does this sometimes too but like. the way the fanon version makes non-bat characters look so stupid...

[mamawasatesttube]

one other thing that really makes me roll my eyes in dc fics is the insistence that the bats can take down anyone, even their most op teammates. like... you guys know a character doesn't have to be the most physically capable one in the room in order to be interesting or strong in their own right, right? look me in the eye. cass had to save tim from shrike. bane broke bruce's back. mind-controlled kon snapped tim's arm like a twig. trying to make them ~always~ able to counter even the most powerful opponents is so boring im sorry like they can and do lose fights sometimes, and that's interesting actually. they are all incredibly competent martial artists, yes! that doesn't mean they can win every single matchup. that's simply neither the point of nor the strength in their characters.

[lovebecomeshim]

hello! your zutara posting today has finally motivated me to ask this question because I came to atla very late(last year, to be specific) and I Love It Very Much but am 1000% out of the loop as far as why what remains of fandom (at least that I've seen among my friends) is so very strongly zutara. I'm not opposed to it per se I just don't really know what has driven it to apparently be such a popular ship? can you help me understand and maybe convert me a little bit?

Hey!! Your ICON! :D I can try but I’m not sure how coherent I’ll be; however I AM sure someone a lot more competent will be willing to add to this. Either way, I’m glad you asked because my plan was to drag down as many people as possible with me.

*smacks the hood of zutara* this baby can fit so much mutual love and support!

This got so long, I’m so sorry. I don’t know how to put it under a cut on mobile and it already got deleted once so I’m scared to mess with it lol. Moving on.

I’m gonna start this with a disclaimer that im on mobile so formatting is tricky and I’m also really new to atla in that I only completed my first watch through in like 2019??? So some of my info is all just based on what I’ve picked up from Discourse 👀 so anyway the sparknotes version: zutara was wildly popular from the beginning. To the point where the atla crew internally disagreed on which ship should be endgame. (Ex. Bryke [showrunners] asked the writers to rewrite The Southern Raiders to make Zuko seem less ideal for Katara than Aang [which failed, depending on who you ask]; the animation team purposefully created a visual parrallel between Oma and Shu in the Cave of Two Lovers and Zuko and Katara in the catacombs under Ba Sing Se in the Crossroads of Destiny; etc.)

The ship was popular enough that Bryke actually chose to display zk fanart at a con for the sole purpose of mocking the fans, but that’s neither here nor there. The entire episode Ember Island Players, while a love letter to/parody of the whole show, was an opportunity to address zutara’s viability as a canon pairing (while, again, mocking zutaras for romanticizing that catacombs scene). Point is! It’s always been popular but with it not being endgame, there’s got to be something that’s given it staying power.

And that’s honestly got to do with three things: their dynamic, thematic cohesion, and potential.

(You know what... you know what, it’s four things. The fourth is they’re so aesthetically pleasing together and individually. Like, they’re just good looking people [specifically when they’re grown but they’re also cute kids] and that absolutely doesn’t hurt) (but it’s not the Point, it’s just nice to point out sometimes)

The dynamic is hard to get into without also looking at the canon pairings, but I think I can do that without unnecessary bashing. It’s just that part of the magic of zutara is really highlighted by what they give to each other that their other relationships don’t.

First off, it’s classic enemies to (would be) lovers. The absolute truest form of it. It’s not too different from how CS started out: a rogue antagonist with a job to do—but no personal vendetta against the future love interest—who is deeply and emotionally invested in his personal storyline (revenge/redemption) with little regard for how it effects other people after his entire life and genuine good nature are marred by suffering, and a fierce warrior girl with a strong moral compass and her own personal investment in stopping him (protect her family and save the world doing it). Obviously frustration and animosity grew between them by the nature of them being on opposing sides, but that just lends itself to the sweetness of their later reconciliation.

The thing is that while they’re wildly different on the surface (he’s a hot-headed prince of a fascist regime who is trying to capture the Avatar to please his father; she’s a nurturing daughter of the chief who is trying to protect and train the Avatar in order to topple his father’s throne) they find out that they have so much more in common both in their experiences and their personalities.

(What follows is an excessive use of the word “both” and I’m sorry about that)(I can edit it. I can do that. That IS an option............)

They both have an innate sense of justice that they are determined to see done (zuko, at the war meeting, sticking up for the Earth Kingdom kid when the guards torment his family, choosing not to steal from the pregnant couple despite his circumstances, abiding by his word to leave the SWT should Aang come willingly, etc.; katara, literally.... at any point). They both have pretty one-track minds at accomplishing certain goals once they’ve put their mind to it, regardless of a lack of support in that endeavor (it goes without saying I guess, but zuko’s entire hunt; katara’s determination to get the earth benders to fight back, her determination to absolutely destroy Pakku until he agrees to teach her, etc.). They both lost their mothers at young ages. Their worlds are war-torn and traumatizing to them both, if in different ways, but that ultimately forces them to grow up too quickly to be wholly independent individuals. They both have issues with their fathers (for WILDLY different reasons, but). They both hold extreme prejudices that they need to learn to overcome (which ties into thematic cohesion)(bit like Lizzie and Darcy in that way but magnified by a million). They’re both extremely emotional and empathetic—which can and often does result in loud outbursts. Katara’s a bit better adjusted and can temper her anger for longer than S1 Zuko can, but they both feel that anger deeply and have no compunctions expressing it (Katara is, usually, more justified, particularly in S1. Again, S1 Zuko is severely maladjusted but at the point when they could’ve feasibly become a couple, he’s so much better off with the way he carries himself). They both struggle with feelings of inferiority in their bending abilities when confronted with prodigal benders like Aang and Azula, but have the work ethic required to double down and become two of the most powerful benders in the three remaining nations. This is a little more minor but it is a parrallel that appeals to some shippers that they both have these alter egos in the Painted Lady (notably fire nation coded) and the Blue Spirit (water tribe coded) that are pretty different from who they are day-to-day and are useful in accomplishing a purpose that they as themselves cannot.

(I’m.... I just realized that this could potentially get very long. Should I have made a slide show with bullet points??????)

Anyway, similar. I know there’s more but there’s literally so much to love about zutara that I’ll drive myself a little crazy trying to compile all the ways they’re similar. (Just gonna say that at this exact moment I went back to add more similarities.... so okay then)

Once they’ve reconciled, we see how all of these things only lend themselves to a deeper intimacy together than they share with literally anyone else. There’s a steady partnership that positions them as the mom/dad of the gaang, while also providing the support necessary to allow the other to not have to carry so much responsibility. A lot of zutaras will point out how zuko is actually depicted doing the more domestic chores that are normally relegated to Katara once he joins the gaang, since the others in the group are two 12-year-olds and sokka. The one that sticks out the most is how he makes tea for the group and then serves them, while Katara is able to just relax with her friends around the fire. Fanon expands upon this a lot to Zuko helping with the laundry or the cooking or whatever else needs doing since he, as a once-refugee, is used to doing his own domestic tasks. Before Zuko joined, Katara was the one mothering everyone, sewing for them, cooking for them, etc. She’s always tending to the needs of the group, and that includes emotionally. She does the emotional labor for the gaang 99% of the time, but when she’s the one falling apart, she’s usually doing it alone and without the comfort that she normally provides for others. Until Zuko. And that’s before they’re even friends.

Which is WHY people romanticize the catacombs of Ba Sing Se so much. Katara is verbally attacking Zuko out of her own righteous anger but also her own prejudice when Zuko, surprisingly, chooses to be vulnerable with her. He’s been on a journey that’s opened his eyes a bit, but he’s never actively chosen to expose the rawest parts of his past to anyone. But for some reason he chooses to do that with Katara of all people. While she’s yelling at him. He sees her humanity, and for once can look past his prejudice and empathize with her. And this time, when she breaks down, she gets to be comforted. Katara normally talks about her mother when she’s trying to explain to someone else that she sees and understands they’re pain, as a form of comfort to them. Here, Zuko uses the exact same tactic. He sees her and he understands. And for zuko? He’s not being shut down. He’s allowed to articulate his pain regarding his mother without being ignored and made to internalize it, and he’s allowed to process how he feels about his scar out loud without being told that he deserved it. And then he lets her touch his scar, something we’ve seen him actively avoid before. He’s completely open to her and she’s completely open to him and all it took was one five minute conversation. She was about to use the little bit of Spirit water that she had, that she was saving for something Important, to heal the scar that still daily causes him pain just because they had, somehow, connected.

Plus there’s the whole parallel to the star-crossed lovers forbidden from one another, a war divides their people—

And then zuko messes up, he regresses, he gets what he wants and he HATES it. And the sense of justice he had as a child has been restored to him against his will and he can’t think of anything he wants to do more than the Right Thing, so he joins team avatar. Before he does that though, we get to see his relationship with Mai, which is where comparison really comes in. And what we see is Zuko, fresh off of his encounter with Katara in the catacombs, trying to be emotionally honest with Mai... and getting shut down and dismissed. Which is just how Mai is and it’s fine, but not for Zuko. Still, he keeps trying, and he keeps getting ignored or scoffed at or yelled at. Which is really a larger symbol for how he doesn’t fit in his old life anymore, but again that’s about thematic cohesion. He tries to articulate his anxieties about returning home, he tries to make romantic gestures, he tries to explain how morally conflicted he’s feeling—and Mai diverts to some kind of physical affection to shut him up and a parting comment that is pretty much always, in essence, “I don’t wanna talk about this.” So they don’t. On the other hand, once zuko and Katara are friends, we see him again emotionally distraught and caught up in his anxieties about facing Iroh, and it’s Katara who comes to him and listens to him and comforts and encourages him.

Similarly, we have Aang clamming up and getting uncomfortable whenever Katara shows any negative emotion, usually resulting in him making excuses or running away. Or, in the case of the Southern Raiders, lecturing her on how she needs to just let go of her anger about her mother’s murder. People have talked this episode to death and usually better than I ever could, so imma... keep it brief. There’s a serious disconnect between Aang and Katara in his ability to empathize with Katara and her needs that has her tamping down her vulnerability and amping up her anger. He tells her that he was able to forgive his people’s genocide and appa’s kidnapping (petnapping? Theft??), which is blatantly not true but also not an entirely equal parrallel to Katara’s situation, and continues making these little remarks throughout the episode. But it’s Zuko that Katara opens up to. It’s with him that she’s able to talk about the most traumatic day of her life, and it’s with him that she’s able to get the closure she needs, cementing their bond as friends and partners. This disagreement between Aang and Katara is then... never resolved. They just never bring it up and hear what the other is saying.

There’s a fic called The Portraits of Ember Island that has a line that so completely sums up the heart of the matter for why people love their dynamic. For context, zuko has woken up early to help Katara with the cooking and they spend the whole time just letting one another talk, and zuko stops to ask why she always just lets him talk. And so she stops to ask why he’s always helping, and it goes as follows:

There’s just... so much mutual support! Trust! Intimacy!! And it just continues like that from the Southern Raiders on, listening to each other, advising each other, watching each other’s backs! And then! Literally saving each other’s lives!! I will never be over the last Agni kai. Not ever. Zuko may have been willing to jump in front of lightning for anyone, but he actually did it for Katara. And in a show, that’s the thing that really matters. It’s a fulfilled trope usually exclusively applied to romantic pairings, and it ended up applying to Zuko and Katara. And then she ran out into the middle of a fight with tunnel vision just to get to him.

Also!! Also Zuko pushing Katara out of the way of the falling rocks at the Western Air Temple!! And Katara catching him as he fell from the war balloon that he fought Azula on!! Before they’re even getting along, they’re the ones reaching for each other. They come to this place of equal ground, as partners, who watch each other’s backs, call each other out but still listen attentively and understand, and provide the support that the other has been sorely lacking up until they knew each other (whether that be from lack of effort or lack of understanding from others, or an unwillingness to accept it for themselves).

Then, trailing along under the surface of this, we see the themes of the show totally embodied by Zuko and Katara as individuals and in their relationship to one another. There’s a YouTuber, sneezyreviews, who has a, like, 2-hour explanation on why she not only loves zutara but also believes that their endgame would’ve actually elevated the writing of atla to new levels particularly because of thematic cohesion and resolved character arcs. It’s the zutara dissertation I never knew I needed, and it’s funny and eloquent and effective, so I’m just going to sum up her section on thematic cohesion to the best of my abilities and then link it for whenever you have the time. And I HIGHLY recommend it, especially if you want a full understanding of what makes zutara so great and gives it such longevity.

Guru pathik has a line that goes something like this: separation is an illusion; things that seem different are just two parts of the same whole. Iroh also tells Zuko something similar: balance and strength are achieved when the different nations come together and influence one another and celebrate what makes them each unique. And this lesson is a massive central arc that both Zuko and Katara go through, moving past a black-and-white, good guys-vs-bad guys, us-vs-them mentality and into a greyer, more nuanced view of the world. Zuko sees the fire nation from an entirely new perspective and while he still loves and hopes for his nations future, he surrenders his blind loyalty to them in exchange for an unflinching loyalty to peace and love. Katara too had to come to terms with the fact that cruel people exist in the earth kingdom and water tribes, while some fire nation citizens are just regular, kind people who also need and deserve to have someone speak on their behalf. And this is honed in directly on how they view each other. They grow in their individual journeys to be open to the humanity in the other and then, once they’ve found that, they’re able to grow more in compassion for others in a beautiful feedback loop. And this is all matched in the symbolism repeatedly and intentionally associated with them in canon: sun and moon, fire and water, yin and yang, Oma and Shu who found love despite their warring nations. Their individual arcs are completed in each other and complement the themes of atla beautifully.

The canon pairs... just don’t. Which, again, is fine. But the very things that give atla longevity and popularity are anchored in zutara. Kat@ang doesn’t accomplish this. They’re... nice. Sweet. Especially when you erase a good portion of their interactions in S3. It could’ve been just a sweet love story. (Personally, the dynamic between toph and aang accomplish the same thing that zutara does, with complementary personalities that fulfill the theme of opposites blending in harmony) M@iko, on the other hand, is less sweet but I think wasn’t even supposed to last. Zuko’s relationship with Mai seems to represent his relationship with his old life as a whole. He can’t be emotionally vulnerable, he’s goaded into abusing his privileges, his agency and opinions aren’t respected. They just don’t have common ground with which to discuss anything that matters, so they don’t. As far as themes, the relationship doesn’t fit with atla. It’s zuko returning to and sticking with what is (on the surface) like him, what’s expected. Fire nation with fire nation. Fluid water bender with the flexible air bender. Like with like, separated from what is different and challenging and complementary.

And all of these things combined of course lead to the potential for the ship. I don’t know how familiar you are with the post-atla canon but... well, miss “I will never turn my back on people who need me”, miss “I don’t want to heal! I want to fight!” ends up living quietly in the SWT as a designated healer who turns a blind eye to the water tribe civil war happening right outside her front door. Which can be fine! People change! Some people just wanna stay inside. I just wanna stay inside! But the potential future for zutara is so much more satisfying, with Katara becoming the most unconventional Fire Lady the uppity old cads who are stuck on the old ways have ever seen. Fanon has her serving as a voice for the other nations within a kingdom at the point of its biggest political upheaval, as a confidante to Zuko who can actually help him while he’s trying to figure out how to move forward and make reparations. They have the opportunity, together, to accomplish what they both have set on their hearts to fight for: positive change that lends itself to harmony and balance. And the steambabies! A popular headcanon is that their firstborn daughter, the crown princess, is actually a waterbender, which causes such an uproar among the people who are adamantly clinging to the old ways. It’s just a future full of potential to be forces for good together, full of trust, intimacy, joy. The exact era of peace and love and balance that zuko announces that he intends to ring in with the start of his reign as Fire Lord is, again, magnified by the very personal zutara relationship. And we love to see it.

tl;dr zutara isn’t for everyone. Some people just don’t vibe with it. Some are nostalgic. Some love the canon they grew up with. Some have been disappointed for years. Some just see themselves in other characters and want their happiness instead. Whatever the reason, that’s fine. But for me, I love the way these two, from the moment they give each other a fair chance, are able to lower their walls and prejudices to see the other for the kindred spirits they are. They see each other’s humanity, and their response is to pour out love and support and compassion. I love that they’re a power couple in battle. I love the symbolism and, honestly, soulmatism that colors their every interaction. I love that they embody the whole storyline of atla in their relationship and how it develops, which is notably why their seasonal arcs always culminate in each finale with how they relate to one another. I love that zuko adopting a waterbending move is what actually saves his life and then katara’s. I love the chemistry! And I love the future they could’ve had, instead of the ones they were given.

So, in conclusion: I just think they’re neat and I hope you do too, at least a little bit. Even if it’s just respectfully from a disinterested distance cause you do you. And now here is the video I mentioned. I’m sorry this post got so long and then I gave you an even longer homework assignment, but I can’t recommend it enough. She says it all better than I can.

[romqnticstylez]

hello, lately I have seen many tiktoks with hatred towards ronarry where they compare it with harmione or just say "they are brothers"...

I think you have been loving the ship for a longer time and that is why I ask you what is the difference between ronarry / harmione and why them do you ship? (shippeo ronarry)

ok so im not really good at explaining this kind of stuff so bear with me anon

Harry doesn't really like spending time alone with Hermione. Sure, sometimes he does, but he prefers Ron. Sometimes he dreads being alone with her. Not getting lovey-dovey vibes there.

They aren't attracted to each other. I don't want this to be too long and take days to respond so I'll just say that again. They are not attracted to each other. Hermione's type is someone argumentative and someone who can make her laugh. Like Ron. Harry's type is someone funny and someone who can pull him out of his 'brooding sessions'. Like Ginny. That's an oversimplified version to why I think Harmione wouldn't work. Anyways...

Now we have Ron and Harry. They're both supposed to be straight so of course they're not gonna be into each other in canon, but I think they could work because honestly I dunno what would change between them if they got together. It'd be pretty much the same except for more cuddling and doing some not-kid-friendly-at-all stuff. If Rowling wasn't homoph*bic and acknowledged made Harry bisexual, he would've been into Ron. And no, I'm not just saying that because I ship them.

We don't know what Ron felt towards Harry but he was obviously not gonna be into Harry in canon because..well read above- But it's fanon. That's the point. Of course they're not gonna be attracted to each other in canon; not seriously since endgame is them with Hermione and Ginny and not a teensy tiny crush because of homoph*bia.

saodosakGOjawjowjodjasjovsajoga (sorry tired for a mo')

Ron and Harry have a particular dynamic that is NOT the same as Harry and Hermione's dynamic. Ron and Harry's relationship could turn romantic but Harry and Hermione's wouldn't last if they got together. No offense to whoever ships them and thinks they'd work out, but I think they're incompatible as a couple.

I don't have to ship Hermione and Harry just because I ship Ron and Harry with the thought 'They have similar relationships' because they DON'T. It's very different, and I'd rather ship a sweet Best Mates to Lovers ship than an incompatible ship that's familial (I have a similar relationship with my brother so don't attack me with reasons why they AREN'T like siblings, please.) or toxic/abusive ships.

TL;DR: They have different dynamics; I think Ron and Harry's is much much better for a romantic relationship. This wasn't meant to offend anyone, by the way, but I hope it answered your question Anon! Also it'd help if you ignored any mistakes or typos.I don't wanna reread this again. Any-who, bye.

Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn't the same as Ron. There was much less laughter and a lot more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend. - HP4

[ectonurites]

can anybody please explain the appeal of tim drake because ive been into the batfamily for a while now and tbh im really confused on why people like his character so much compared to the other robins. like they all have their own thing going on and he just... doesnt?

Have you read his Robin solo? Because if not and you want to try to like him but just don’t understand why people do, that’s what I’d recommend. That and like, Young Justice 1998. 

Because Tim definitely... does have his own thing going on. Maybe not in the same way as the others, but like, there’s a reason he has a 183 issue long solo comic that ran for like 16 years: he was fun to read about!

But I will give some more specific thoughts on the subject as a Tim Drake Appreciator™ (this got long im sorry)

The appeal of Tim (especially early on Tim) is kinda the fact that he’s this more normal kid. For a while that is his ‘thing’. He was basically designed to be a self-insert (he definitely became more than that along the way, but from the start he was meant to be relatable) in a different way than how Dick and Jason had been before him. 

Like the role of Robin from the start was this way to create a character young readers could identify with more, could see themselves in more. And Dick and Jason did that, but they still had this element to their lives and stories that was more... unattainable for the average reader. Dick was a circus prodigy, Jason was either also a circus prodigy if we remember pre-crisis or if we go with his post-crisis story he’s this street-wise orphaned kid who had a really tough life but still went on to be a hero anyways. Obviously those lives are relatable for some people, but those’re definitely not as broadly recognized as common upbringings especially not by DC trying to market to the ‘average’ kid/young teen.

But the creation of Tim changed the game a bit. Dick and Jason were these aspirations a kid could look to like ‘wow I want to be cool like that!’ but Tim was a Robin designed for kids to look at and go ‘wow, his problems and civilian life are just like mine AND he’s a hero, I want to be cool like that!’, ya know? Tim was... just a clever kid with an average life who managed to connect some dots and had enough drive to want to fix things he saw were a problem, he didn’t have the same kind of heightened drama backstory the others did. The Robins that came after Tim definitely didn’t have this idea of relatability in mind the same way either. Unfortunately Steph’s time as Robin was much more of a marketing ploy than an actual like... decision to make her Robin, so it’s hard to really fit her into this conversation. But Damian from the start was first of all initially created not to be Robin but just as the son of Talia and Bruce back in the 80’s, but when he was later reimagined into the character that would become Robin he had the whole ‘raised by and is the heir to the league of assassins and is the son of batman’ thing going on still. He just was not supposed to be relatable that same way, he was a character designed with different things in mind.

I really think it was more just DC’s 90′s era younger-audience comics in general that tried to push that relatability thing (like in YJ how Cissie even after quitting the team stays a major character as a civilian throughout, and the civilian aspect that’s super present in Bart’s 90s solo too, etc), but later in the 2000’s that idea was definitely pushed to the side in favor of... putting in even more dramatic superhero-y stuff.

And the other thing that’s... such a more normal thing but it actually made him unique here, was that Tim’s dad was still alive until like 2004 (so 15 years into Tim being around as a character). This gave Tim a lot more typical ‘family school girlfriends normal life etc’ problems on top of/in contrast with his superhero problems. These just manifested in very different ways than they could with the other Robins because of that unique situation with a living civilian parent who doesn’t know about hero stuff (until he did find out which lead to that whole Unmasked thing, but there was only the brief time around War Games & Identity Crisis where Jack knew Tim was actively Robin and he was... still alive) Tim also had his life at school expanded way more than most other Robins, like, he had such an extended supporting cast of civilian friends which is a really interesting thing to read about (and the fact that he hasn’t had that stuff since the New 52 I think really hurts his character)

And then related to that loss of his dad... Personally another thing about Tim that really interests me is how a lot of things were more... his choice. if that makes sense. A lot of characters in the Batfamily were struck with tragedy/extreme trauma before they became heroes and that’s what spurred them into this life of becoming heroes. Tim’s situation wasn’t like that at all! When he first got involved in everything during Lonely Place of Dying, the only tragedy he’d experienced was watching Dick’s tragedy happen. Which sure yes traumatic obviously, but that’s not the same as how pretty much all the other Bats had gone through these very personal losses or other sorts of very first-hand personal traumas that served as motivators. Tim didn’t start to experience those things until after he got involved in the hero life, and aside from his Mom’s death which was more of just an unrelated incident (that technically happened before he was officially Robin but it was during his time training to become Robin), pretty much all these other tragedies and things... would not have happened or been experienced by him had he not become Robin. 

That’s not me placing blame on him or anything like that, because god no that’s not how that works, but it’s very interesting because from his point of view he definitely feels that guilt because he knows him being Robin played a role in a lot of it (Thinking specifically about in Adventure Comics #3 when Kon even says “I know what guilt does to you” to him like it’s... it’s a thing with him!). His dad was murdered because he was Robin. He only met Steph and started dating her through being Robin, and thus he would not have experienced the loss of his girlfriend dying like that had he not been Robin. Tim met both Conner and Bart through being Robin, and would not have had a personal connection to them when they died otherwise. The whole Bruce’s death thing after Final Crisis, like. I could go on honestly, that was only talking about losses not even his own experiences nearly getting killed, but yeah, all these personal tragedies were experienced by him specifically because he chose to bring himself into this life, which I think in turn plays into how throughout his comics you see him go from having this really optimistic view on things and being really hopeful to seeing him at that low point he reaches by the time of Red Robin. (thinking about that one post that points out how Tim started out in the 90′s as an optimist and Steph a cynic and by the time they were Red Robin and Batgirl in 2009 they had switched outlooks...) 

I also think that him having had such a great team book with the original Young Justice can help contribute to people liking him. His friendships with the rest of the core four and that team in general are really compelling. (and that’s something like again when looking at the other Robins, while Dick had the Titans ofc, Jason never really found footing with a team outside of like one mission with the Titans and then We All Know How Damian’s Teen Titans Stuff Went. Steph also only ever really worked with a team outside the batfam on very brief occasions) and even though I’m not as big of a fan of the 2003 Teen Titans run that came after YJ, people who read Young Justice and also that could follow and be attached to those same characters over a pretty decently long period of time. 

Idk man, I don’t really have an ultimate point here i’m just rambling. I can definitely understand not seeing the appeal to him right away (honestly i’ve been into Batfam since like 2013/2014 and Tim did not become one of my faves until 2020) especially if like... idk when you say ‘into the batfamily’ that can mean a lot of different things. If you’re reading more like the bigger events with the batfam sure Tim can kinda fade into the bg a bit, if you’re more talking about fanon the fanon version of him is prettyyyyy uhhhhh not really the same as how he was in pre New 52 canon, if you’re mainly reading New 52 era Batfam stuff then that Tim I also don’t understand the appeal of bc thats Not My Boy, if you’re interested in a different member primarily and only familiar with Tim when he shows up in things focused on that other character then it’s easy to not really understand the appeal right away bc he’s more there to support that character rather than shine in his own right. 

I think it’s also worth mentioning he’s just not everybody’s cup of tea, and that’s totally fine. Like, these are fictional characters and sometimes you just will vibe with a character and sometimes you won’t! idk if this helped at all or even made sense. but yeah. I just think he’s neat 😌

[kaissauce]

okay, phucker, do it

ok let's do this @rolli-zolli @ninikins

Horrortale: technically an alternate timeline instead of au. after a neutral run where undyne's queen the core malfunctions and food becomes scarce and people resort to eating humans because sans suggested it. Aliza is the protag. latest thing that happened in the ongoing comic was Aliza agreeing to go with Papyrus to solve his last puzzle. as for the appearance of sans he has a HUGE hole on his head and a red eye. he got the hole from undyne when she got his magic eye which was going to be used to power the core. sans didnt die tho and killed the guards holding him down and just took whatever eye was on the ground and used it as a replacement for his magic eye that's powering the core. i quote first words he said after putting the eye in his socket "who the fuck took my phone?". then the magic eye went apeshit and broke the core again. oh and also he made alphys braindead by quite literally scrambling her brain. yeah this au is rough sans hasn't really eaten anything since the core was destroyed since he decided not to eat any humans.

Dusttale: i think this was originally a korean au? basic rundown: too many genocide runs sans goes apeshit and tries to get his Lv up by killing monsters himself man went fuckin insane kills his brother blah blah blah edgy angsty au the ghost of papyrus haunts him n stuff. sans literally just looks the same except he has his hood on and sometimes artists draw him with papyrus's scarf. the cool artists draw him with his hood on and has the hood completely cover his face so u can only see his glowing pupils. although people call him dust sans he's actually named murder sans

Killer: so frickin similar to dusttale except sans goes apeshit because of the human being like "join me lmao". three different outcomes come from this. i think it was 1 sans joins human 2 sans joins human kills human later on 3 kills human or something. friends with color sans who is basically his impulse control. pretty sure his soul's fucked up and Color sans tries to make his soul un-fucked but Nightmare comes in and fucks up the progress. he has white shorts, his eye sockets are constantly pitch black and leaking tar or something also has a weird target thingy on his chest. OH YEAH ALSO HE HAS BEEF WITH UNDERSWAP SANS ALMOST FORGOT. basically swap sans tried to make killer good and then they had a fight, swap sans lost and was on the verge of dying thankfully swap papyrus was able to save him in time i think

Dreamtale: Dream isn't in the drawing but his brother, Nightmare is. Sooo he used to not look all goooy and have tentacles n stuff but then he ate a couple hundred apples and yeah. he's six years old apparently. Nightmare and Dream are supposed to be guardians of a tree that has 500 golden apples and 500 black n goopy apples. the golden aples are positive and the goop ones are negative. you're not supposed to eat either of them cus bad shit happens. Dream and Nightmare live in a village and for whatever reason they're all dicks to Nightmare because ooughh he's the guardian of negativity that's not baller. he also goes apeshit (do u see a pattern here) and eats a goopy apple n then becomes the goop man he is today. he fuckin eats 999 apples jesus christ. and the last one is eaten by Dream because if u eat all 1000 apples u become unstoppable and immortal. so that would be a bad thing if nightmare got the last one. wop wop wop these dude aren't sanses they only have the body of one if that makes sanse.

Error: manlet. he's literally an error and that's why he's like that. also he's technically not a sans now, the redesign for him was so that he could be in the creator's webcomic named Lucidia. Error sans, aka the destroyer of aus, finds aus to be mistakes so he tries to get rid of them. his process of doing this is simple: get the human soul to the void so that they can't reset, destroy the au. he primarily attacks using his strings which can wrap around one's soul and control them. he like some aus like outertale because of how open and empty it is. he likes to be alone and has haphephobia. if u touch him he'll glitch out and possibly crash. he crashes whenever gets overwhelmed. said crashing causes him to shut down and reboot and he's powerless while doing so. he's actually pretty easy to beat if you know how to push his buttons the right way. in the og ask error blog made by his creator Loverofpiggies he kidnaps Swap sans who tries to help Error become a better person. this ends horribly as error leaves Swap sans in the void who then becomes an error aswell due to being alone in the void too long. Error actually regrets doing that to swap sans

Aftertale: OK FUN FACT THE SANS OF THIS AU, WHO'S NICKNAMED "Geno" IS ERROR. aftertale is a comic made by LoverofPiggies it's been SOOOO long since i last read it so i cant really give a good summary. but anyways Geno is trapped in the loading screen with the human and will die if he leaves the loading screen. eventually from being in the loading screen for too long after the events of aftertale he becomes Error.

OOF WOWIE THERE'S SO MUCH TO GO

Underfresh: he's not even a sans either. "Fresh" is a parasite inhabiting a skeleton. his birthday is on 4/20 which is ironic cus he doesn't like drugs. he censors swears. he speaks 90's lingo and dresses like a neon sign. for some reason he has eyebrows and a gold tooth. the glasses he has can change text but normally defaults to "YOLO". he can't feel anything since he has no soul of his own and just latches onto the host's. instead he learns how to act from the people around him. not being able to feel actually bothers him a LOT

Echotale: Aka Gaster sans. uhhh this one was also a comic if i remember correctly. basically Frisk and G!Sans are the only ones in the au and they're trying to find the core to fix the fucked up timeline that they're in but the core keeps changing positions so that sucks.

Swapfell: originally made by Khhoppang who left social media. Started out as an Alphys x Undyne au so only those two were designed but Kh was planning to design more of the characters. before they could people had a field day with the idea of mashing two aus together and SO many people came up with their own designs for sans and papyrus. Khhoppang left social media because they got overwhelmed with all the art reposters and stuff, pretty sad. the appearance of the sans in that au is the purple one with a scythe (i dont think he has a scythe in the og design).

Swapfell Red: so basically this is the swapfell made by people that isn't Khhoppang. community made per se. Sans's appearance changes constantly because as said before many people made many different designs. typically he just looks like Swap sans but with red high heel boots and his color scheme fits underfell

Fellswap (gold): Au made by blackggggum. so swapfell is underswap turned fell, fell swap is underfell swapped it takes a bit to understand that. his appearance is somewhat similar to Swapfell red. He's kind to his friends but if ur his enemy he'll fucking deck you. he's blind in his left eye, the leader of the royal guard, and secretly into dressmaking. fun fact in this au Papyrus has autism

Xtale: uuuuhhhh so Cross is a complicated one. he's part of the royal guard along with papyrus. has beef with xgaster. responsible for the downfall of his au and then Underverse happens and Ink is all "oh cool someone to mess with" and they became friends for a bit then shit hit the fan

Underfell: OOOOO YES UNIRONICALLY ONE OF MY FAVORITES. So Underfell sans is actually a very powerful mf and constantly has his magic eye activated because he has so much magic. This au is also technically an alternate timeline where monsters "lost their humanity" as the creator put it. so basically trust in the underground is scarce. Sans and papyrus, contrary to many interpretations i fucking hate, are actually on good terms (and no sans doesn't call papyrus "boss" the creator said if he does he'd do it ironically and papyrus would hate it). Fun facts he pays Grillby in socks (grillby accepts the socks as payment and wears them), if u make grillby laugh he gives u a jacket that looks like his and it's heavily implied that sans made him laugh because their jackets are similar

Underswap: ah yes another classic that i love as well. originally made by PopcornPr1nce who fled social media because they hated how the majority fandom treated Underswap (Blueberry and Carrot were popular names for the fanon swap papyrus and sans). Swap sans is constantly infantilized by the community which sucks and i hate it so i draw my own very super cool version of him whom i kin because i am also very super cool.

Outertale: mainly an aesthetic au pretty sure there's no comic of it. basically, instead of underground they in space. outer sans dies in underverse after like minutes of screentime lmao

Epictale: a comic made by Yugogeer. the og comic was retconned and the creator loathes the original version and made a reboot that's much better. Sans actually dies very early in it because Yugo hates how Sans is almost always focused on in aus. also the creator hates how meme-y their sans has become (like him saying bruh every single sentence, using a rubber chicken as a weapon, cookies, etc.) he's friends with Cross but not in canon. He has a purple magic eye that makes him immortal and i think only epic gaster could remove it which is how sans was able to be killed when he fought gaster.

Temmietale: it's undertale but everyone is temmie, don't question it

Trainertale: it's undertale but it's Pokemon, don't question it

Dancetale: it's undertale but you dance instead of fight, don't

Mobtale/Mafiatale: im unsure if mobtale and mafiatale are separate or not but they are very similar. basically undertale but mafia it's self explanatory

Undertale: no clue which au is this one, nope not at all/j

Bittytale or whatever idk: so take sans, make him small. boom. never understood this au

THAT BASTARD INK: HOOO BOY SAVED THE WORST FOR LAST. FUCK THIS GUY/j. THIS DUDE. IS THE REASON IM STILL INTO UNDERTALE AUS. I LOVE EM SO MUCH. also technically not a sans. He comes from an unfinished au and ripped his own soul to escape said au and became an outcode. for so long he was just a soulless husk until someone drew him and he got splashed with paint which let him feel. soon he learned to keep the paint in vials so that he can be able to feel 24/7. And then he learned how to create things with a paintbrush and the paint and spent time alone drawing up his own world until a portal appeared and took him to the multiverse. now he encourages artists to keep creating aus. he's the protector of aus in the sense that he keeps other outcodes from disrupting the script of the au, so if it's pacifist and an outcode tries to kill people he'd stop them, if it's genocide and an outcode tried to help them he'd stop them. no matter what he wants the au to stay on script. fun fact the creator of ink and the creator of error never had them interact with each other in canon, that was all the fandom's doing. Contrary to popular belief he's not really considered "good" his alignment is officially "Chaotic neutral". I personally interpret him a lot more chaotic than in canon because it's fun but he's a pretty chill guy actually. he can just be a bit of an ass sometimes. According to the creator of Ink (who is Comyet) his interpretation in Underverse is not canon compliant. one of the biggest canon things that underverse contradicts is Ink deliberately not taking his vials. if he were to do that in canon he'd become a husk again which is the equivalent of him "dying". he was described as a walking corpse by Comyet, without the vials he can't function anymore. Like Error he's pretty easy to beat if you know his weaknesses. also he has fears of empty spaces and being alone

off topic kinda but i very much love how Error and Ink are opposites yet parallel even though they were completely written without the other in mind. Error believes getting rid of aus is getting rid of anomalies. Ink believes people interfering with aus are anomalies. Error loves emptiness, Ink hates emptiness. list goes on it's funky fresh.

also uhhh sanses missing from that drawing that i can name from the top of my head

Seraphim sans, Insans, Dusttrust, He who shall not be named because he's from an 18+ au, Swapswap (yes. that exists), Storyshift, Inverted Fate (very good au i suggest checking it out), Negatale, Oceantale, Template, Pale, Mafiafell, Farmtale

my phone is at 9% y'all are spared from me going on

[toonbly]

Oh please do give us the essay I would LOVE to hear your thoughts.. your Freemind content is like kisses directly to my brain 's all so good.

OKAY SO LIKE. quick tw for discussions about internalized transphobia and internalized homophobia

QUICK CLARIFICATIONS: I’m a queer transmasc nonbinary and some of this is projection. A LOT of this is cherry-picking from and overanalyzing little bits of FM canon.

im gonna put this under a readmore to save yalls dashboards

HERES WHY FREEMINDS NARRATIVE IS 10X MORE INTERESTING IF HE’S QUEER:

So some things to cover: We’re cherry picking from canon and MOST of this is based off of fanon interpretations of freemind’s character. i should also clarify that I myself am asexual and nonbinary transmasc (though i only use they/them pronouns), im not entirely sure of my romantic orientation but yknow, obviously im not cishet lol. Some of it’s self projection, some of it is character study, either way I think it’s important to clarify that some of this is my OWN experience and that what im outlining here obviously isn’t the universal queer experience.

SO COVERING CANON. like okay, most of us tend to go down the route of “Freemind is gay/bi/otherwise queer in terms of attraction and he’s just in denial of it” in our freemanverse content and like, if you pick apart the source material there’s canon backing for this! (ie: Freemind saying he can’t wear earrings cause sailors do that and sailors are “kinda gay”, then later going on and on about how he wants to be a pirate and how he should’ve done that instead of being a scientist.) LIKE OKAY, OBVIOUSLY THIS WAS JUST ROSS MAKING A HOMOPHOBIC JOKE AND PROBABLY DIDN’T THINK ABOUT THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS AT ALL. obviously that is the case, but as most freemanverse content does we are casually Throwing That Out The Window and cherry-picking from canon because Freeman’s Mind is full of gross content and we are simply here to take whatever we want to and RUN AWAY AS FAR AWAY AS WE CAN WITH IT. What I’m saying is basically, yeah, there’s some canon backing for Freemind possibly being gay/bi/whatever and just in denial of it due to internalized homophobia and some toxic masculinity issues. In terms of toxic masculinity he constantly brags about how cool and tough he is, makes himself out to be an invincible genius, etc. He very much frames himself as the “Tough man who feels no emotions because ReAl MeN dOn’T cRy.”

That’s basically all we need from canon. Accidental subtext on Ross’s part implying internalized homophobia and Freemind’s constant attempts to frame himself as what a “real man” would typically be considered as resulting of toxic masculinity.

Now moving onto fanon: Many fanon narratives take Freemind’s character and try to give him a redemption or healing arc. Basically the guy learns that he’s allowed to show emotions and that this doesn’t make him pathetic or lesser than anyone else, and usually he does so with the help of those around him (typically the other Freemen, sometimes Eddie, hell sometimes h/lvrai characters like Tommy!) So here we have the narrative of “A man struggling with toxic masculinity and self worth issues learns to better himself, he lets others in and starts to be true to who he actually is strengthening both himself and the connections with the people he loves.” This is an arc I love and have incorporated into a LOT of my works involving Freemind! Hell I think it’s difficult not to take his character into that direction.

But, okay, what does this have to do with Freemind being queer? Obviously I’ve mentioned the internalized homophobia subtext and all that but up until now it seems like I’ve only really mentioned the more emotion-based aspects of Freemind’s arc. Well this is where we get into my own personal interpretation of Freemind’s story.

My version of Freemind is a gay trans man, he realized he was trans sometime in his teens but only came out and transitioned sometime during college. In my version of the story, I think Freemind grew up around a kind of rough crowd. He’d hang out with those sort of boys at school that were just the EMBODIMENT of toxic masculinity, and I think he kind of internalized a lot of what they told him? They told him things like “Boys don’t cry” and “Boys are tough” and “Boys can’t like girly things” and “Boys can’t like other boys, that’s weird.” etc etc etc. He hung out with a rough crowd and didn’t have the best support system at home, and a lot of this resulted in his more egotistical larger than life personality- He acted out a lot both because his peers told him to and because hey, at least it got him some form of attention. He was a smart kid, sure, but that was never really enough to impress anyone around him. He kinda developed this “I’m better than ALL OF YOU” attitude as a defense mechanism, and as he started coming into himself and actually accepting that he was trans he took those things that his peers told him “””real men””” do and don’t do and cranked it up tenfold, just to further prove that he was better than all of them and than he was even more of a “””real man””” than any of them could tell him. He took these toxic view points and internalized them, making them a key point of his personality just so he could prove himself and put himself above others. I don’t think he struggled too badly with internalized transphobia, at least in the “I can’t be trans cause that’d be bad” sense. I think he struggled with it more in the “I have to do all of this or I’m just lying to myself and doing this for attention” sense. Granted, he never held anyone else to this same standard, he’ll never admit it but to him things are always different when it’s him. Sure Freeman and Feetman can have their little boyfriends and do gender nonconforming things, but that’s different, they don’t have to prove themselves for anything, they’re not held on the same pedestal as he is, they’re not Gordon Freemind. It’s different whenever it’s him.

BUT, as he begins to grow and learn and not hold himself to such a high standard, Freemind begins to learn that all of these things aren’t true. He learns that showing emotion, being gender nonconforming, being attracted to men, etc. doesn’t make him any lesser than the others around him and there’s no “different standard” for him JUST BECAUSE it’s him. Hell there’s no different standard for him at all, there never has been, and the people who told him otherwise were just toxic assholes who he shouldn’t have to please in order to exist as himself. As he is, he’s good enough, he’s always been good enough, and allowing himself to be vulnerable and accepting who he is doesn’t make him lesser than those around him.

What I’m saying is this: Freemind’s narrative outlines the journey of a man learning vulnerability and learning to accept himself and allow others into his life. His character arc cannot be complete until he does these things, and in certain stories Freemind’s inability to be vulnerable and accept who he is might become a detriment to his goals and the goals of others around him. If he doesn’t learn to accept himself and open up to others he will fail to achieve his goals. Ultimately it is Freemind allowing himself to open up, accept himself, and be vulnerable that saves the day. Alone, this is already narratively interesting, but if you also mix in the ideas of him being queer in any fashion and learning to accept that and that there’s no “right way” to be himself, it adds a LOT of layers to the narrative. It becomes less a story about some dudebro learning that he’s allowed to feel emotion and more a story about a queer man learning to accept who he is, being proud of who he is, and how allowing himself to be vulnerable contributes to this acceptance. It becomes a narrative about how being open with yourself and others can lead to you discovering who you really are and accepting and loving yourself for it. Freemind’s identity as a queer man becomes DIRECTLY TIED into his character arc of learning vulnerability and allowing himself to make connections and I feel like that’s really important! Sure, not every narrative needs to be about a queer struggle and frankly I don’t like tackling it constantly myself, but Freemind’s story in particular becomes much more interesting under a queer lens especially considering how you could very easily tie the discovery and acceptance of his identity into his general character arc. It’s a story about a queer man learning to love himself and becoming a happier, better person for it.

TL;DR: As a queer transmasc nonbinary myself, I find the idea of Freemind’s narrative being queer incredibly interesting. It’s easy to tie in Freemind’s identity to his character arc of becoming more vulnerable and open about both who he truly is as a person and in an emotional sense, and I think it’s really interesting to make a character’s identity relevant to their arc somehow. Granted, this doesn’t always need to be made the case because queer struggle narratives can get tiring on some queer audiences, but in this specific case I think it’d be an interesting character study. 

[acircusfullofdemons]

Follow up question <3 tell us about the Pastas.

- @maddgicalgirl

@maddgicalgirl So. :>

Wait b4 I get into that, idk how familiar you are with creepypasta (im assuming at least a little bit bc you asked this lol) but just to be safe: Creepypastas are internet horror stories, they're (imo) usually pretty sucky bc they're all written by 12yos, but whatever the fandom never sticks with Canon anyway. There's also the SlenderMansion AU (very popular, you've probably seen fanart of it) where the pastas all live together. Whos there depends in the person i guess? So for me its: Tim/Masky, Brian/Hoodie, Slender, Toby, Ben, Jeff, EJ, Jane, LJ, Smile Dog, Sally, and my parame Simon. Sometimes Jason & Slender's brothers are there, too.

I mostly daydream about Tim/Masky being my dad. and also Brian/Hoodie, being my other dad. They are Married <3

Tim is your typical tired dad, I guess? Him & Brian work for Slender with Toby (who've they also mentally adopted as their son/brother). Brian worries about everyone (he has anxiety) and is generally a mother hen ngl. Since I also mentioned Toby here (+ I want all the proxies together), he's a chaotic lil shithead but knows when to pull it together for serious situations. A more realistic version of the popular fanon, I guess.

If Tim is a Tired Dad then Slender is a Tired Grandpa <3 /j. He's the one that actually runs things & makes sure the pastas don't murder each other, especially Jeff & Jane. Its also hard to tell if he genuinely cares about the pastas or not - an elderitch being with no face is pretty good at hiding its true emotions, shocker ‐ but he does tolerate them living in his house, so. Probably? He secretly wants to be a dad let him have this.

Jeff.....has actually chilled out. Like. A Lot. I'm still toying with the idea of if he murdered his older brother, Liu, yet. Because if he didn't, then Liu would be a detective; but if he did, then Simon (my parame) would be able to see Liu (they're the para i mentioned that can see ghosts) & fix their relationship so Liu can move on. ANYWAY, personality-wise, he's still an ass but now its like. A Funny Asshole. Probably bc he spends to much time with LJ. He's also the primary caretaker of Smile Dog (he's a "family dog", but also Jeff's Dog, u know?).

Jane has also chilled out. In the sense that she isn't trying to murder Jeff on sight anymore. After some talking (and encouragement from Slender), they've decided to call it a truce (?) and more or less ignore each others existence unless necessary. It works surprisingly well.

Here's a post that kind of explains the gaming pastas ("Glitches" as they're called here), including Ben.

Sally is. just a lil 8yo baby we love her <3. She's also the only child living at the mansion & kind of likes it that way. She likes being the only Baby so all the attention is on her 💖

EJ is the mansions doctor! He was turned into a Demon before finishing med school, but Slender has plenty of medical books and its EJ's Special Inerest (listen....idc at this point. they all have adhd and/or autism. fight me) so he learned everything pretty quickly, which is good because its. a bunch of murders living together. What do you think happens daily.

I don't daydream about LJ that much idk why I listed him but yeah he's There he Does Things.

I'd talk about Simon but I've gone on long enough, that's like. a whole other post lmao.

[gender-chaotic]

Yknow i love me nasty, smelly, gross, asshole beej as well as him being redeemed, loving and being a big softie for his new found family, over all making him a big softer.

I want a nice healthy dose of both when it comes to beej and i wont deny when people clean him up and look him look thin and conventionally attractive/sexy it does really annoy me, but certain people in this fandom are acting like canon musical beej is this big weak baby who canonically woobified from the other versions of beej because people in the fandom are woobifying themselves. Yeah musical beej is still nicer, more sympathetic, softer in this canonically he still is disgusting, smells, looks gross, is a pervert constantly making dirty jokes flirting/harassing with adults, attempted to murder multiple people. If you dont like the musical fine, cool, you have a right to and im sure there are valid reasons to not like it, even as a fan i can see why people might now like it, but some of these takes of the musical and musical beej himself are pretty bad and some of the same people prefer cartoon and/or movie beej.

I dunno about you guys but cartoon beej is literally just the spooky version if the genie from Aladdin or cosmo and wanda i know people have compared musical beej so these things but cartoon beej is literally a children's version of beetlejuice. Of course in his universe He's still dangerous and a pretty bad/nasty guy i mean he's universally hated in the neitherworld but he just like musical beej he's clingy, emotional, soft for the few people he cares about, lonely, ect. The cartoon and cartoon beej himself are way more divorced from the movie canon than the musical is tbh.

Musical Beej is basically a fusion of movie and cartoon beej and you can boo me but im right and its strange to me how people complain about musical beej ruined beej or whatever because he's softer and a little more sympathetic despite the fact he literally shares quite a few traits with movie and cartoon beej. Obligatory not every verson of a character is going to be the sane and changing things up keeps things fresh. Sometimes its really really bad but musical beej seems like the best parts of movie and musical beej with a few new ideas to shake things up and as someone who is a abit older in the fandom and who grew up with both movie and cartoon beej and love them both as well as mucial beej i like what they did with the musical and how they portrayed him.

The fandom and younger fans maybe be woobifying and babying beej but actual canonical Musical beej is still a disgusting, nasty, asshole and making him a but nicer, softer,sweeter, ect. Wont ruin his completely as long as you can do it right and now infantilize and woobify him too much. I think some of these people have some actually good criticisms about musical beej and the musical and again if you don't like the musical fine but theres a difference between fanon and canon interpretation and i think some of these bad takes about musical beej comes from a place of bias.

Lastly just like you don't have to like the musical and musical beej people are allowed to dislike the movie and movie beej as well as the cartoon and cartoon beej. I want everyone to give all 3 canons and beej's love and appreciation including the older canons but people are allowed to dislike certain beej's or certain canons it doesn't make them some kind of "tourist" or "fake fan" its their preference i love all 3 but some people don't and thanks okay.

Edit: oops sorry one last thing. conventionally attractive, bishie, completely woobyfied does suck but stop acting like this is new I've seen people draw beej like this back in middle school back when i used to search deviant art for beetlejuice art. The musical is attracting more people so of course you're gonna see it more and condensed in one place since alot of the fandom hangs out in the same few sites. Not to mention acting like all new fans/musical fans are woobyfing beej or ok with doing this stuff is just wrong i see plenty of these fans making nasty, dirty, gross beej warts and all you just gotta find the right content .

[kinkymagnus]

Hey I've read a lot of your posts, where Magnus is a trans boy and I like that a lot, but I was wondering if you don't like the canon cis male Magnus? I'd ask you non-anonymously too, but I'm honestly scared of some people's hate messages for a question like this... sorry

long answer long answer lmao

hmgmgmnggg ok so i, hm. ok, i don’t think this was meant in a rude way at all, and i promise im in Education(TM) mode not Kill The Malicious Evil Transphobe(TM) mode like im not, accusing you of anything here, at all 

but i do have a few Issues with like, the way this was asked i guess

i will answer your question just--give me a sec, im a little uncomfortable here

also like, ok, i get why you’re sending it anonymously, it’s cool--personally i’ve never seen anyone get hate on behalf of trans magnus headcanons (rather than against them) but i mean, hate can come in all shapes and sizes i guess? and anxiety, so. whatever, it’s fine, i get it

but anyway moving on: first, “canon” cis magnus. my dude... my guy... did at any point magnus say I Am Cisgender or pull out his dick.... like... neither trans or cis magnus is really “canon” just as like, you know, izzy isn’t confirmed straight or bi or pan. we know she likes dudes and personally i think the way she looks at clary indicates she sure do like girls, too, but that doesn’t seem to have been intended so it’s debatable, and that’s basically it. 

also, in the context of just like... historical shit, realistically magnus isn’t cis. is he trans in the way i write about (like afab, “pre op”)? no, not necessarily in canon (although he isn’t... not that either i guess--we do see his flat chest, no scars, but HYPOTHETICALLY that could be a glamour, or the scars are magically healed. we know he has an adams apple, but there ways to do that without magic, let alone with magic. so like. i’m just saying.) 

but like, he wouldn’t be cis how we understand it either by the simple virtue of being much older than the western gender binary as we know it. even if he was born with a penis and all of that and identified as a Man(TM) And Nothing Else that wouldn’t mean his idea of masculinity/manhood would be the same as ours, or that it wouldn’t at least be shaped by very different factors. so like. even if my version of trans magnus isn’t confirmed canon, cis magnus certainly isn’t either i think. that might be slicing hairs or getting finnicky with language, but it’s how i feel about it. 

and just assuming that he’s canonically cis rubs me the wrong way, like, characters aren’t cishet by default, you know? obviously the writers probably weren’t intending to make him trans, and cc certainly wasn’t when she stole his character from dark hunters and made it “her own”, or else there’d be a bunch of transphobic tropes in there, but like, you know, death of the authors, we make sense of canon now. intentions arguably don’t matter, we do with the story what we will, especially when working within it.

again i don’t think you were necessarily being like “well magnus is canonically cis so :/” but it rubs me the wrong way and is something i’ve seen before so like, yeah

secondly, “trans boy” magnus versus “cis male” magnus. why boy, anon. why boy

(god why does “why boy” sound like a bizarre t-shirt slogan or a mbmbam segment--NO, BRAIN. WE ARE ON SERIOUS BUSINESS.) 

but seriously tho like the sort of infantilization of trans men is really a thing (seeing them as “soft bois” and “uwu cute boys” and feminine/soft/small/delicate) and like, specifically calling magnus a trans boy versus when he’s cis he’s a “male” (which technically can refer to any age but has those like, Connotations) sits wrong with me. like, magnus isn’t a boy, you know? i mean i get making jokes like “aw my boys <3″ or whatever, but with this it’s not that say memey context AND specifically it concerns a trans man (not to mention him being asian) so like, it feels, yikes? like just. he isn’t a “trans boy”

im sorry i realize it seems like im just like harshly picking apart your answer and i really dont mean to sound like a bitch here but like, again. Education(TM) mode not Anon Hate(TM) mode. just for learning, it’s cool, i’m not angry at you, it’s chill. 

to answer your question with the yikes language gently nudged to the trash chute: do i dislike cis magnus? 

simple answer: yes.

complicated answer: not really. i already stated why i don’t like Cis(TM) magnus as it feels unrealistic and dumb and also he just doesn’t have cis energy lmao, but if you just mean like... well this isn’t really “cis” but kind of what people mean in this context, AMAB magnus (meaning he was “assigned male at birth” aka has a penis and all that) and he’s canonically gnc so like, he’s “cis” even if his understanding of masculinity might be different than ours and obviously we’ve seen him be gnc and all that.... i don’t really hate that, and objectively, i have no issues with it, but personal taste wise, i basically only read/write trans magnus as you see on my blog now. because i’ve kind of absorbed it as “canon” in my head (fanon, i guess, lmao) 

plus, just generally trans magnus is really important to me because like, a) he is #goals i too want to be a muscular gnc hottie, b) he’s relatable and i project all my shit onto him lmao, c) it just feels very validating, in a lot of ways--with the sexual preferences i write about, his insecurities, just the way he looks, and him being trans is just kind of reassuring, you know? also d) i honestly think it fits him/his character/his backstory and he just has the vibes u kno 

so basically, Cis(TM) magnus? no-go. cis magnus as in AMAB/identifies as a man full stop even if it’s wibbly wobbly compared to current times and lbr no one is going to really explore that much beyond him being outwardly gnc sometimes? fine, whatever. trans afab magnus still being gnc as hell? yessssssss

ldkgjfgh anyway im glad you like my posts!!! and hopefully ive Inducted Another Into The Trans Magnus Cult (thats a joke, but seriously, im just like,,,,,maam do u have time for ur lord and savior trans magnus?? maam blease)