#it's like dude the christians are not making that claim and the atheists are not addressing it

[professor-doc-emeritus]

it's incredible to me how some christians online will be like "you stupid atheists just don't understand Christianity, it's really like this!" and then go on to describe a heresy that would have gotten them burned at the stake 500 years ago

[greenerteacups]

I'm on my nth re-read of books 1-4, and I keep finding new things to be delighted by, on top of the old reliable lines that make me giggle every time. Like in book 4:

“Yeah,” said Harry, whose success had overdosed him with optimism. “Hey, think about this: you reckon I can just Banish the water and walk down?”

“Oh, bless, he thinks he’s Moses.”

How does (presumably pagan-ish or non-religious based on holiday celebrations) Draco know about Moses? Does he think Moses is a wizard??? I mean... he DID accomplish several miracles with a big stick. Any of the implications here make me cackle

Oh this is awesome, I've been wanting to talk about this for ages: I think wizards know what the Bible is! And Christianity, and Judaism and Islam, and I think there are practicing members of all of those religions (and more!) in the Wizarding World. Here's why.

The Bible (Old Testament specifically — Draco's references lean towards the OT because that's the broader cultural referent, it's the common glue of the Bible/Quran/Torah and if wizards know any Abrahamic text, it's that) is a huge, ubiquitous, world-shaping cultural text that was thousands of years old before the International Statute of Secrecy. The date of 1692 for the SOS means that any muggle culture before the 17th century is fair game, even if it's not accepted by wizards. So that's why I think atheist/agnostic/pagan wizards should still have at least referential familiarity with it.

The fact that wizards celebrate Christmas (NOT Yule, although obviously in Lionheart they do both) tells me that there is at least vestigial religious belief in the population. Expressions like "Merlin" in place of "God" tells me that wizards probably have a different relationship with it — Merlin's generally treated as a kind of prophet? — which is giving "splinter sect of Christianity defined by the emergence of Merlin as a separate prophet for wizards," but I'm not gonna spiral too far into that headcanon, because this is a lore analysis post. But that's my working idea, here.

The first-order response to the "what about magic?" problem is: Not everything that happens in the Bible can be explained by the Harry Potter magic system. Water into wine, sure. Resurrection? Impossible, as far as 99% of wizards know. Harry Potter is the only person we know of to be fully resurrected, and even he's never technically full-dead. Moses parting the Red Sea? I mean, we can imagine spells that would do it, but think about how much water is in the fucking sea! We don't see anything of nearly that scope happen in the series. And what about manna? We know for a fact that you can't use magic to make food!

But let's sidebar that, and drill down on what you can explain. Water into wine. Curing the sick. Okay, cool. There's still a big difference between "established in-universe ability that has been ritualized and turned into technology" and "literal miracles." Walk on water? Sure, you could probably perform a spell for that. But does Jesus? Do we know, for a fact, that he had a wand, or that he cast a spell? Had the spell for that been invented yet? Are you even sure he was a wizard? Can we prove it? Moreover, would it matter?

This leads me to my bigger point about the nature of religious belief: if you believe the dude's divine, having magic doesn't change anything, right? Because he's still the son of God. Christians don't believe Jesus was divine because he performed the miracles; they believe he was divine and so performed the miracles. There are many different IRL-theological stances on how much of the supernatural stuff in the Bible "actually happened," and you can be a skeptic about the scientific facets while still subscribing to its broader philosophical and religious claims about God.

Even if you take Jesus and other Abrahamic characters out of the question, there's still a place for religion in wizarding society, because of the afterlife. With the exception of ghosts (who by their account have never been fully "dead," and so don't know it) and inferi, the relation between the wizarding world and the afterlife is a one-way conduit. That means there's still plenty of room for wizards to adopt religious beliefs specifically about the afterlife, and religion would still play a social role in defining how people approached those topics.

Finally, the pagan elements of the Harry Potter series read less to me as an espousal of sincere religious conviction and more as a ritualistic vestige of prehistorical magical practices. Since the universe's magic draws heavily on pagan ceremonies — especially in the realm of potions/herbology/magical creatures — ironically, I can't imagine paganism as a religion in the universe of Harry Potter. Like, it's just straight-up true! It would be like starting a religion around meteorology, or chemistry. There's no element of mystery or divinity involved for faith and belief to fill in the gaps; you know how magic works, and you can be good at it.

What JKR did with the magic system — apparently on accident — was to textually validate huge volumes of pagan practice without invoking any of the associated spiritual or religious beliefs. And since we live for seven years in the mind of a competent, practicing wizard who does tons of magic without seeming to believe in any particular god at all, I have to infer that you don't need to. Rowling has, again, likely not on purpose, built a universe whose central conceit is: "what if the pagans were just straight-up right?" and revealed the answer to be: "well, then it wouldn't be paganism anymore."

[papatundespainknife]

based on the backstory and personalities of the Mikalesons, do you have any headcannons about Mikaelsons + religion?

oh HECKIE YEAH

i think it's honestly SUCH an interesting topic and concept seeing as how their all you know immortals n shit and magics real and etc etc. unlike say, btvs where Willow literally invokes Osiris, tvd doesn't really make any solid references or claims about the whole Deity Situation until apparently legacies but I haven't watched it yet and sounds Kinda Dumb so I'm ignoring that lol. But the rule of thumb with shows like these seems to be that once you say draculas and witches are Super Real then it's open season for Zeus enter stage right like it's an episode of Xena. Which when you look at the Mikaelsons....... Wild.

I think that Freya, Finn and Rebekah are the most unironically straight-forwardly religious and I think they've stuck to the norse/scandinavian beliefs they grew up with. Freya both because of the 1,000 years of Napping Nonsense but also because she's a witch and that's the school she was taught in so she's sticking with it. Finn for similar naptime reasons and also because he doesn't see a reason to change and didn't even when they were in France and hanging out with christians. For Rebekah it's like pure sentimentality. She likes a lot of the aesthetics of mainly catholicism (the swagiest of sects) but at the end of the day she's still out here making offerings to Freya (the goddess not the sister fdjkgdfsdfs) because she's a sappy little sentimental bitch and that's what brings her comfort. I don't think she's particularly religious which I think Freya and Finn are but she enjoys the celebrations and finds comfort in the actions/words/rituals/prayers/etc.

Kol and Elijah are more wiggly in their beliefs. Kol still calls back to his roots a LOT but he's also expanded out over the years since he's still a witch at heart and a curious cat. He's less interested in following any one religion and more in what resonates with him. So his believe system is very eclectic. What he believes in he believes in 10000% and is dead serious about. He's also experimented and educated himself about world religions the most out of all of them. Dude could probably teach a clss tbh.

Elijah is the one who's actually been the closest you can be to an atheist in a world like this. He's had periods of like, religious nihilism and periods were he's a little more hopeful about it. He's just spent so much of his life trying to be the Good Reliable Son and like Niklaus praying for divine intervention both with their father and with Niklaus only to get shit in return that it broke him and he just stopped and abandoned all religion/spirituality and focused only on the tangible. Hope's birth fucking shakes him to the core lol. Generally tho even after her he's still more in the like, "not my scene but i do love a good festivity" camp.

Niklaus is an evangelical's idea of an atheist where it's not "i don't believe in god" but instead "i feel god personally slighted me at my bday party so now i'll hurl rocks at him for the rest of my life out of pure spite". his sense of abandonment, unwantedness and paranoia doesn't stop at the threshold of religion. Ofc, he's old as dirt and literally has his own coven that bitches KEEP FORGETTING HE HAS so he's not in doubt that the divine exists. But Thor didn't protect him from his father's abuse so fuck that guy and jesus didn't fix SHIT for him so equally fuck him.

Wouldn't be shocked tho to see him "ironically" do rites/sacrifices to Odin via shit like the death of an enemy/creatively using old school practices for physical/psychological torture bc he's Like That. Does he also end up carving a mjolnir into Hope's crib and giving her a little one on a necklace? yes but this ain't about that hush.

Kol and Niklaus are also the most likely to have an affinity for gods like Loki and his children for reasons I feel are obvious lol. The holiday arguments this creates between them and Finn are unhinged.

[percabeth4life]

...do you think you could explain how religion works in pjo? Cause that didnt make a lot of sense to me. Percy isn't an atheist (at least after he gets claimed idk what he did beforehand) but he also doesn't seem to worship/honor the gods in any way besides the bare minimum.

In a literal fashion it works in a casually Christian dude wrote it and he doesn't actually care for or respect the Gods in any way and treats the campers worship in a casual manner. In addition he views the Gods fairly negatively based on his portrayal of them so likely doesn't think in universe that they should be worshiped. So they're beings that exist but aren't worshiped, and only honored the bare minimum or when they need things.

In a meta fashion, their worship is very bare minimum as it seems they've forgotten their roots. It could be considered part of why the Gods are so "cruel", they're not being given any honor, respect, or love for all that they try to do. Only their biggest actions are counted, any small acts are ignored. So it's a mutual circle of them not being honored so them not doing much and thus them not being honored-

Basically, Rick doesn't know how to write a religion involving more active worship of non-perfect beings.

[demon-girl-izalith]

I think we should keep something in mind this Christmas/holiday season. As the Christian narrative floats around, the white swaddled newborn plastered on billboards, and the focus on what's "sacred" and "holy" circulating through churches around the western world...

The body being "sacred" has nothing to do with some fucked white European idea of chastity or purity. It has absolutely EVERYTHING to do with making sure people are able to feed themselves and their children, not be straight up poisoned by pollutants, or fetishized and exploited for profit. Holiness has nothing to do with being clean or looking your Sunday best.

It was never actually about "purity" or "virginity" or "cleanliness". If it was, why the hell would Jesus have been crucified? The real historical dude said stuff that pissed off people in power so much they fucking merked him. Nothing pisses off agrarian feudal lords or modern capitalists more than telling the masses that they aren't simply morally justified, but on the side of GOD when they steal medicine and food for their children. If you don't believe me, I highly recommend reading William Herzog's "Parables as subversive speech", read about what theologians actually think historical Jesus was talking about all those years ago. Whether you believe in God or not, think religion is a plague or pray a rosary every night, I think keeping this in mind is like super important.

Christianity becomes dangerous and, in the opinion of this demon girl, blasphemous when it is removed from the context of its social cause, when it's co-opted by those in power and disarmed of the radical rhetoric that it was born from originally. I think that's exactly what we see in broader society. I think that an entirely rational response to this is to equate all of Christianity or even all of religion with evil... But I think there's nuance here.

To be clear, I stand with the satanists who support the fight for separation in church and state by chastising the corrupt institutions who have become the opposite of what they claim to espouse. I stand with the atheists who keep the naive theologians in check, and offer peace to the people who have been ravaged by the monster modern Christianity is to so many. Don't stop doing what you're doing. If Jesus was standing here today he'd be standing with you. You're fighting modern day pherisees out here and I'm for it.

Now, this is not to say there aren't problematic things that were always present in the Christian religion, of course there are. And they're quite abundant. I think Christians need to be very aware of that as well. There's nuance there. What I'm calling for here is a realization that the religion of the oppressed is not the same as the religion of the oppressor, and that the religion of the oppressed, when not stripped of its merit and co-opted by systems of greed, can be a force for good. And when we use that lens to look at this bizarre spectacle we call "Christmas", we can learn some interesting stuff.

What I'm saying is, if you're trans, gay, whatever, for the love of God, literally, please LIVE. Listen to your friendly demon izalith. By existing as who you are, you are sacred. Don't let the people wearing robes and claiming to be on the sides of angels and "God" tell you who you can or can't love, or what you can or can't be. If there is a God out there, and he's with those punks, then he's no god. I spit on his name. Angels are overrated anyways... It's the demons, the poor person who steals from Walmart to feed themselves and their children, the prostitute who is proud of their job and the life they work hard to sustain, the fat trans person who goes to Christmas mass in goth makeup... It's those people who the religion was originally made for. It wasn't made for the rich, the white, the straight, the normative. It was made for us. For all those people who are downtrodden, cold this winter, unable to buy food, scared and tired. Fuck that shit they used to traumatize us and belittle us when growing up. It's all lies and venom anyways. If no one loves and accepts you, this demon will.

[rei-does-stuff]

no but LITERALLY the other day I saw that stupid terfy post comparing women wearing makeup to hijabi women and I was like “what in the fresh fucking hell” it’s so weird how obsessed they are with policing how different women choose to dress, for whatever reasons they do it. I don’t understand how they can call themselves “feminists” while also implying that women covering their hair for religious reasons is “oppressing themselves for the male gaze” like can we take away the phrase “male gaze” from these dinkuses for like, idk, forever???? do they even know that religious head coverings in Islam are for Allah (PBUH)? I know I’m not an expert on Islam but seriously they can’t even be bothered to know the bare minimum of any culture or religion other than their own before mocking it.

and I hate how their go to is “oh those third world countries are oppressing women with their backwards Brown culture” and you can tell that’s basically what they’re saying because we all know they would never criticize the Christian fascism that’s taking over western countries, but the second people are oppressed by a religion that’s associated with brown people they alstart squawking like chickens with their ducking heads cut off.

it’s like… the act of choosing to wear a hijab IS NOT FUCKING OPPRESSION!!! AND YOU CAN TALK ABOYT THE ISSUES FACED BY MUSLIM WOMEN WITHOUT BEING FUCKING RACIST!!!!! idk, as someone whose number one focus in study in school is intersectional social theory, it just bothers me to no end how these fascist women will see a white American male senator literally ban human rights and overtly state his religion as a cause, and say nothing about it, but when a Muslim does the same thing it’s all “SAVE THE POOR BROWN WOMEN” and ik you know more about this than I do from your own perspective im just rambling about this because you’re like the only person I can ramble about this kind of stuff to since you agree and understand it. sorry if it sounds like I’m being preachy your post just reminded me of some of the shit I’ve seen and I’m just like “cool cool cool these women are totally not overt right-wing white supremacists, nope, not at all nope no way” /s

anyways ur Muslim lesboy swag is off the charts you should be given free reign to slaughter any terfs in ur vicinity /lh

OOOH BOY LILY I WAS FUMING WHEN I READ THIS BC I HATE RACIST TERFS SO MUCHH MANN (nothing against you tho dw :)!)

[I saw that stupid terfy post comparing women wearing makeup to hijabi women] dude I see that all the time and I fucking hate it bc they are NOT the same thing at all. It all comes back to them thinking that hijabs are something the patriarch created when like. No. Sure it’s been used that way occasionally but it’s not as common as they make it out to be they intentionally misrepresent it to make Muslims and hijabs look bad and it’s so infuriating.

[implying that women covering their hair for religious reasons is “oppressing themselves for the male gaze”]

GOD THIS ONE I REALLY DISLIKE bc its so clear they have no idea WHY people wear hijabs. And especially since most people who say this are white and Christian (or atheists which might be worse imo) they’re coming at this from that point of view so they have NO idea what they’re talking about when it comes to that.

[they can’t even be bothered to know the bare minimum of any culture or religion other than their own before mocking it.]

It’s because they see as Muslim as either scary terrorist or poor innocent women who need be to saved for their evil religion and country by white people, really fucking gross

[and I hate how their go to is “oh those third world countries are oppressing women with their backwards Brown culture”]

God yea, they really need to calm their white savior complex for ONCE that would be greatt

Also they claim arab countries are backwards when they don’t know shit abt them, it’s awful

Especially what you said about them never criticizing Christianity for similar views, its only bad when the “evil” brown people do it apparently. Racists fuckers.

[it’s like… the act of choosing to wear a hijab IS NOT FUCKING OPPRESSION!!! AND YOU CAN TALK ABOYT THE ISSUES FACED BY MUSLIM WOMEN WITHOUT BEING FUCKING RACIST!!!!!]

Honestly if you’re not muslim or aren’t from said countries where the issue is prevalent I’m not gonna listen to a word you fucking say bc half of the time it’ll be misinformed and or REALLY racist, yk???

Anyways no worry you weren’t being preachy! This gave me a good excuse to rant too!!

Thank you btw, my lesboy swag is indeed off the charts :)

[automatismoateo]

I got watchmakered today. via /r/atheism

I got watchmakered today. I live in Ohio, so not exactly in the bible belt, but close enough. Lots of christians of different denominations around. I work at a department store, and while it isn't a religious store perse, we do sell some jesus-y bible-y stuff. I don't know if this makes the clientele feel empowered or what, but I am constantly having people tell me about "someone who loves you more than anyone else can" and given tons of jesus pamphlets. It kind of baffles me how people can think "yeah, this guy that works in a semi religious store and has soaps with bible verses directly across from his register has definitely never heard of christianity" but I digest. Normally, I just smile and nod, and throw the pamphlet away after they leave and that's that. Today, this 70 year old man decided to ask me follow up questions after his little spiel. I've noticed whenever they have follow up questions, it's never enough to just say "oh yeah, I believe in god and go to church all the time" because they have to make sure you believe the "correct" version (i.e. the one they subscribe to) of the fairy tale. I decided to be honest. Went like this: Do you go to church? "no" do you believe in god at all? "no" can I ask why "because I've read the bible and know a fair amount about religion and it just doesn't seem to comport with reality." Dude starts chuckling, assuring me he's not laughing at me, which means he definitely is and tells me about the prototypical apologist conversation that has never actually happened. He said he was talking to a guy and he pointed to his watch and said "no one made this" at which point the hypothetical atheist says "what are you talking about? Of course someone did!" Old man says "exactly" and smugly walks away leaving Atheon McStrawman to question everything he believes. Dude then has the audacity to claim "I don't even know where I got that from, it just came to me." Sure guy, we all know exactly where you got it, the same apologists that failed to make it a valid or compelling argument in the first place. Look, I'm more than happy to spend an hour or two explaining why that's a shitty argument if this was anywhere else, I'd even suggest better arguments to use and tell you why they're better for your position, but I'm at work and I have a ton of shit to do. Go feel self-righteous somewhere else. Not that I could have actually said that and kept my job. I find it baffling that anyone, even one of the old guard like this guy, can still think this is some kind of great gotcha argument. I don't really have a point here, I just wanted to share. Maybe you'll find some humor in it. Submitted August 20, 2024 at 03:38AM by sameguyinadisguise (From Reddit https://ift.tt/xwc0BSb)

[tetsunabouquet]

Stop blaming feminism as a whole for Hollywood's shit

I'm coming this as the granddaughter of a feminist activist who worked in abortion clinics when they were still illegal in my country. It's one thing to say the current wave of feminism is demonizing feminine values and has, in a way, become yet another version of the patriarchy saying that to act like a man is the superior way to act and that it's the cause of Hollywood churning out horribly written female characters. It's another to demonize feminism as a whole. Take a video I recently watched on YouTube on the subject, the dude made it clear he disliked feminism but reiterated stuff like, 'feminine qualities have their values'- when that is literally the original feminist message. Congratulations, you are an old school feminist without realizing you are one. Not only that, but to prove the guy's point he showed a couple of newspaper articles, including the rise of mothers murdering their children. First of all, this dude is unknowingly to himself, implying that infanticide is a masculine trait as women acting masculine and rejecting feminine values was the big focus point. Personally, I don't think an argument essentially saing, "Feminism is bad because now the women are killing their children like we do", is an argument that speaks bad about feminism but rather speaks badly of men because infanticide isn't something I'd ever think is a good idea to claim in a debate. Secondly, is this dude chronically online? We're living in an economic crisis as bad as the Great Depression, we just outlived a pandemic, and there is an actual feminist setback on the abortion rights in the US and Poland alike. I'm pretty sure any of these factors play a bigger role in the rise of infanticide by their mothers hand then shitty Hollywood movies. Because it's not like making abortion extremely difficult to practically impossible will result in an increase of unwanted children or something. It's not like there aren't deeply painful reasons not to want the child and how some of these mothers will just kill the baby instead of giving it up for adoption. No, that's totally not a thing... Yeah right. Ironic considering it was coming from a Christian man, when the religious (including strict Christian) communities look down on a child born out of wedlock and a girl losing her virginity before marriage. Them slutshaming women for doing so as they raise their daughters, filling them with an almost traumatic sense of shame when they end up with like that. I think a girl in that situation is likelier to kill herself or the baby then an atheist, middle class college girl that consumned Hollywood media who got knocked up by her boyfriend as they weren't using protection. Seriously, you're giving Hollywood way too much credit and you're showcasing that you think women are so easily manipulated by media that we would kill our children because Hollywood is saying 'settling is bad'. Imagine being that filled with hatred for a movement you've become completely brainless and delusional.

[halflingkima]

the thing abt. the save-the-gods narrative in cr right now. to me.

is that so many of them started faithless with intention, and that leaves open the perfect opportunity for the typical finding-faith storyline (which i find way more meaningful/useful/entertaining in the dnd context with empirical evidence gods are real). but like good players, they’re letting the story push-pull them and so far those who had any chance of helping them find faith have gone about it all wrong.

fcg is a great example bc at the start of the campaign, he was the perfect candidate for that typical find-faith storyline. but with his black and white thinking ripping the nuance from these ideas, he’s actually pushing his friends further from religion.

the only character who effectively introduces the characters to the concept of gods and worship and holy callings is deanna. her relationship with her god is layered and nuanced and at the moment, genuinely in question. she is the epitome of show-not-tell when it comes to religion. she shows the hells – my faith is my faith and is shaped by me. your faith - if you want to build it - doesn’t have to look like fcg’s blind belief.

and bor’dor’s story, and ashton’s story, and chetney’s claim, and to a degree, laudna’s story: they all bring to mind real world atheist origin stories for me. “why would a god allow suffering” “well i’ve never seen a miracle” “my prayers were never answered” “even the most devout aren’t truly protected”

and that’s with the added hurt of knowing a being is there, they exist.

but the reference to the real world makes me think of how this game is mirroring real life. religious people are too panicked abt the potentiality of their religion dwindling/fading/disappearing (nevermind that the practices and communities can continue even if the gods fall) that they’re thinking in black and white: you’re with us or against us. and the rhetoric for those on the fence is essentially “well you’re a good person, right? ok then our side’s right.”

it’s the same (christian) absolutist thinking that pushes atheists further away: “everything happens for a reason” “bad things happen because of non-believers” “there’s a grand plan we’re not privy to”

both deanna and the hearthdell occupation perfectly exemplify the religious context of the moment. the Big Guys™ and freaking out and implementing force – and therefore incurring resistance – while the average everyday person approaches with understanding and nuance.

Looking at where the characters started – perfectly primed for their own come to gods moments – and where the narrative has pushed them – back into their corners of distrusting big dudes in the sky – I have no clue where the larger narrative is going. And i’m excited to find out! but it is kind of frustrating to watch them ping pong this stuff at the table for what will probably be another. 30-ish episodes.

[religion-is-a-mental-illness]

The Bible in a Nutshell

“The Bible in a Nutshell”, by Casper Rigsby

Introduction

If you've ever read the whole Bible you are well aware of just how big this book is. With an estimated word count of well over 700,000 words, the book is not an undertaking for the casual reader. In addition to the lengthiness of the book it can also be a very tedious and boring read as well. This turns many people off to wanting to commit any time to understanding the foundational doctrine of Christianity.

However, as atheists we really need to have at least a basic understanding of the Bible if we are going to make a judgment call about the religion. You see, no matter which sect of Christianity someone subscribes to the Bible is the foundation of Christian belief. So what I offer here is a mere 7,000 words to tell a slimmed down version of the basic story of the Bible. I've tried to make it humorous and something that could be fun to read.

I've stripped away all the philosophy and metaphor and simply offered the story as it is in its most basic form. Because of this, what I offer here is more a literary critique and artistic rendering than a theological examination. What I want to focus on is the narrative rather than any underlying allegory or metaphor inherent in the narrative. And what I want the reader to ask themselves is if this story is actually believable or not. I want to challenge the notion of biblical literalism by showing the story in its most basic form is simply too fantastic for any rational person to believe it as fact.

You see, if the story broken down to its most basic form doesn't make sense, it won't make more sense if you just complicate it by throwing in even more outrageous claims. I think by the time the reader finishes this story they will come to an understanding of just how silly biblical literalism truly is.

--

Forward

What I'm going to offer here is a bit of blasphemy, or at least in the eyes of Christians it is. This is the story of the Bible broken down into sheer simplicity. Broken down and simplified in this manner it becomes abundantly apparent just how ridiculous the whole thing is. I hope you enjoy.

In The Beginning

In an alternate dimension outside of space and time lives the most powerful wizard ever known. He's so powerful that he can speak things into existence. One day he is sitting around bored and thinks, "Let me make myself some other beings that can bask in the glory of how awesome I am." So he spent six days thinking and speaking the whole universe and everything in it into existence. Then he took a nap, because that was a lot of talking to do.

One of the many things the wizard, let's call him The Wiz, created was people. He made people extra special out of dirt like a mud golem to look and think like him. Basically like little The Wiz dolls. But at first it's just this one dude named Adam and he's very lonely and bored. So The Wiz rips out one of Adam's ribs and says, "Alakadabra!" and the rib turns into another person. But this person has nipples that actually serve a purpose.

So The Wiz sets these two up with a sweet little place in a garden with everything they could ever need and then says, "Oh, by the way, I created a tree in that garden that will kill you. Just to spice things up a bit, ya know. Don't eat the fruit off that tree."

Well one day a talking snake shows up and sees the person with the functioning nipples, her name was Eve, and says, "You simply must try the fruit on that one tree! It's divine!" So she does and she shares it with Adam because it's very tasty and instead of dying they just get smarter and notice they're naked. So they hide when The Wiz comes back around, because of being naked and all, and The Wiz immediately knows something is wrong. So he says, "What the fuck guys? I told you not to eat that fruit. Now I'm going to have to kick you out of the garden."

So they get kicked out and The Wiz is double pissed at Eve so he makes her menstruate and makes childbirth really painful for her. They have two boys named Cain and Abel, which end up fighting because The Wiz likes meat better than vegetables and Cain kills Abel. So The Wiz sends Cain to live in some weird land called Nod and he finds a wife there and does his thing. In the meantime, Adam and Eve have many more children and a couple thousand years go by in which the earth fills up with people.

When it Rains it Pours

Now it's thousands of years later and for some reason no one is worshipping The Wiz, which really makes him angry since he made these people specifically to glorify himself. There's this one guy named Noah though who still thinks The Wiz is super awesome. So The Wiz tells Noah, "Build a big boat and put two of every animal on the boat along with your family because I'm fixing to drown all these other assholes." Noah builds the boat and the animals come. He packs up his family and then The Wiz sets about flooding the whole world and drowning everyone. POOF - now you're a corpse. Neat trick.

After about a month and a half, once The Wiz was sure everyone was good and dead, he makes the flood waters recede some and Noah sends a dove who fetches a branch from a tree that somehow withstood the torrential floods and let's Noah know there is land ho. Noah lands the boat on a mountain, because screw you physics, he's got a wizard for a bff. Then The Wiz pops a rainbow into the sky and tells Noah that this is a sign that he won't murder everyone in that particular fashion again, because The Wiz likes to keep you guessing.

So Noah and his family repopulate the earth (let's try to gloss over the incest part). Eventually this guy Abraham comes on the scene and The Wiz really takes a liking to this dude. The Wiz tells Abraham that he's doing a super awesome job worshipping The Wiz, but unfortunately Abraham is going to need to murder his son Isaac because The Wiz likes blood. Abraham says, "Sure thing", and proceeds to carry this out. At the last minute The Wiz sends one of his personal minions to stop Abraham and tell him that The Wiz was just pranking him. Haha! Almost made you kill your kid!

Turn by Turn Mis-navigation

So we flash forward a bit more and one of Abraham's descendants named Moses gets tossed in a basket and thrown into a river. He floats to Egypt and gets found by some of pharaoh's folks who think he's cute and adopt him. But it turns out that Pharaoh has captured all the descendants of Abraham called the Jews and enslaved them. When Moses grows up and realizes he's a Jew, The Wiz tells him that Pharaoh needs to let these people go. The Wiz tells Moses to go to Pharaoh and ask him to release the Jews, but when Moses does this The Wiz has put Pharaoh under hypnosis or something and Pharaoh refuses. So The Wiz sends plagues and murders all the firstborn in Egypt to teach Pharaoh not to fall for The Wiz using magic to make him intentionally obstinate.

Eventually Moses gets all the Jews out of Egypt, but Pharaoh sends troops after them. They get to the Red Sea and they're stuck, but then Moses says, "The Wiz taught me a trick" and he pounds a walking stick on the ground. The sea splits in two and all the Jews walk over to the other side. The Egyptian troops try to follow them and The Wiz makes the sea fall back on them and drown them. POOF - now you're a corpse. (That trick is getting old)

So now Moses and the Jews are free and The Wiz tells them he has a special place for them to live. But before they can get there Moses has a one on one with The Wiz and is given a bunch of rules for how to properly worship The Wiz. When Moses goes to tell all the Jews the new rules, they've made a cow out of gold and are worshipping it.... because hamburgers!

Moses gets all huffy and throws down the rocks he wrote the rules on and breaks them. The Wiz is pretty peeved about the whole cow worship thing too so he makes everyone confused about how to walk a straight line and causes them to wander around on like 40 acres of desert for 40 years. They finally find the place they're supposed to live but Moses doesn't get to live there because The Wiz is fickle like that.

To Be Continued...

So that basically wraps up the Old Testament and the whole Jewish thing. In the next segment I'll break down the New Testament and the story of this Jesus fellow.

==

Enjoy an amusing romp through the crazy world of the bible.

Along the way, realize how much of it is empty filler.

[hedgehogcryptid]

People can be so fucking stupid. Back during the colonization of America by the Spanish, there was this priest called Bartolomé de las Casas. And this dude blatantly spoke against the mistreatment of the indigenous people in all its forms. He spoke against the indiscriminate killings, against the battles fought against them, and also against the forced labor they were subjected to (and claimed that this forced labor was, for them, a cause of death and suffering equal to war). He wrote to the king of motherfucking Spain to tell him "the people doing these things are savages, and doubly so for the fact that they are christians". Instead of minimizing their deeds over that shared moral code, what he said was that, as christians, they should know better and that made their crimes worse. He refused to give the sacraments to the men who had native people working for them, which is a really fucking big deal, as far as my atheist ass can gather. He had to flee to Spain again because everyone wanted him more or less dead, and even from there he kept advocating for the native american people until the day he died.

And there's some academics over here claiming that "nah, a lot of the unspeakable calamities he described were actually exaggerations", and saying shit like "that massacre wasn't 3000 people, it was more like 1000 or 2000" as if that was not still a lot of people. They get carried out on the inconsistencies, they say he was making it sound worse than it was just to gather more support. And they completely miss the fact that a dude in the fifteen hundreds felt the absolute need to denounce acts of violence against the native american people as crimes. If he did, in fact, exaggerate, it was because he was aware of how the society of his time worked, and he knew no one would care unless he made the already terrible reality worse.

And this dude is the main defense I have against the people who say shit like "buT It wAs A dIfFerEnT tImE" to somehow justify their shitty values and racist views.

[queenlua]

rambling about The Study Of History TM or whatever; got longish so it’s under the cut

i’m a little “eh” when people wax poetic about how studying history shows us that “people have always been people,” people are the same everywhere, etc

not because i disagree!  obviously we have been homo sapiens for a very long time, and to deny the commonality between you and some ancient peasant farmer, between you and some dude across the ocean, etc, cheapens your understanding of yourself & your place in the world

but!

quite often, people end up presupposing, or ahistorically projecting onto the past, a value system / framing / worldview that those people would not have recognized, that those people may well have found incomprehensible.  being an atheist in ancient times generally meant something very different than it would mean now, for instance; i always found it a little uncomfortable when new atheism would gesture at atheists from hundreds of years prior, as though they were both perfectly describing the same sort of thing.  (particularly when e.g. the "atheists” themselves wouldn’t have described themselves in those ways; i vaguely remember some blog post series about how certain older quakers / sufis were actually atheists, and like, yes, based on their writing you could argue that, but they would not describe themselves that way, and also they were in a much different intellectual milieu, were not reacting against modern fundamentalist christianity, etc... just seems polite to at least acknowledge those differences) 

or like, e.g., when contemporary conservatives argue that the judiciary is some fundamental tension between “originalists” and “activists,” and framing it as though it’s some age-old dispute, they’re erasing the history of how that framing came to be (which is quite recent even by US history standards!).  and to accept that framing when talking about how e.g. early-1800s justices would’ve understood their role is just incorrect.  gotta try and understand them on their own terms

((for the full comedy version of this, check out neopagan arguments about the question of animal sacrifice, in which modern practitioners will earnestly argue that somehow Odin nowadays is totally cool with modern conceptions of animal rights & welfare, and this doesn’t conflict with older understandings at all due to [insert weird theological reasoning here], even though ancient Norsemen would... obviously disagree... lmao))

like, obviously shouldn’t go Shitty Pop Historian and make lazy/essentialist/orientalist/etc claims about “other” and/or ancient peoples; i roll my eyes into the back of my skull whenever there’s a take that’s like “actually [group] is like this due to [foreign word referring to some religious/cultural concept from like five hundred years ago],” as though you can reduce a huge swath of people to some lame buzzwords, as though you don’t need to bother understanding them in their full cultural/economic/etc context

but what’s exciting to me is, even though people are always the same, the kinds of societies/frameworks/values we can construct can vary wildly, which means if there’s something about society that sucks, it’s not necessarily an eternal thing; we can change it, and i think that rules

[bondsmagii]

I have no idea where to find spiritual commumity anymore bc I'm a polytheist pagan, so I believe there are Actual spirits, fae & deities, not just the "essense"/idea/representations of them like a lot of newage wiccans. And I feel very at odds with how actual spirituality in general is so removed from popular practices. Like some of these people are saying they're atheists & look down on theists while practicing magick! It feels kinda appropriative? Like they only want the Witchy Aesthetic™

yeah, I don't get that either 🤔 I've seen a lot of people claim to be atheists but then also claim to believe in the paranormal, or practise various superstitions, or even dabble in magic, and I'm like. dude. you do realise that "atheist" doesn't mean "I don't believe in the Christian god", right? like. it means you don't believe in any god or higher power or higher force. nothing at all. just you and the big, empty expanse of the universe. people really do seem to think it's shorthand for not being Christian, which is just... bad form. like. Christianity isn't the only religion out there, my dudes.

I'm really not involved with any part of the witch community online because it's just not what I'm into, but I've heard a lot of criticisms from pretty much every angle. it's definitely also been commercialised and turned into an aesthetic, overwhelmingly by young white people who just want a cool look for the internet. it's similar to how paranormal investigation has been turned into a gimmick for YouTube views, which makes what I do (genuinely trying to collect and archive real, actual experiences for real, actual research purposes) very difficult. not to sound like an old edgy bastard here, but sincerely when things go mainstream it's the death of them. quantity is prioritised above quality, and misinformation runs rampant, and before you know it you have people hexing one another over Twitter drama and 2049403 videos of people's faces being far too over-expressive as their bedroom door slowly blows shut behind them.

I'm very lucky in that I have no need for community and in fact despise the very concept, so my advice for this might be useless if that's something you require in order to get the most out of your spirituality. but for what it's worth, I stopped trying to define things and stopped talking to people about it. my beliefs are private and intensely personal. in my opinion, nobody can experience their spirituality in a communal way because it is so intensely personal and no two people will ever agree on anything. I believe you can commune far more easily with what's out there if it's just between you and them, and you can come into it sincerely and with absolutely no influence from anyone else. like I said, though -- this is what works for me. in a great example of what I literally just said, it's a very personal thing and so this might not work for you.

[mooifyourecows]

honestly i thought i would hate Midnight Mass. What with being raised Catholic and now having an extreme hatred for Christianity as a whole. i thought it would piss me off too much

but that ending?

fuckin gorgeous. very cathartic

Spoiler alert under the cut because i wanna briefly just touch on what i really loved without ruining it for others lmao

something that has always bothered me as someone raised around really devout catholics and other christians (and mormons ugh) is how they claim that religion is the one thing keeping them from being bad people. like anybody who doesn't have religion, or people who don't have christianity at least, have nothing to stop them from murdering and raping and stealing and etc.

because that's just completely ignoring the fact that almost everyone has a conscience and morals and ethics that exist outside of religion.

this is another reason why i loved The Good Place. it wasn't religious but it also wasn't NOT religious, you know? it had a more unbiased view of ethics and a person's conscience and i freaking LOVED that. it gave me the type of comfort that religious people get from praying for forgiveness and expecting a utopian afterlife for them once they passed on, but without all the gatekeeping and turf wars of religion.

so midnight mass, having a character like Riley, who had lost his faith, who didn't buy into the monsignor's desperate attempts to bring him back to trusting and believing in the religion he cast aside, was just... ah 😘👌

His speech on what he thought death would be, and later Erin experiencing some of what he said while she described it to him in her death dream was like... so beautiful man.

and the fact that Riley, someone who had no faith in god or the church anymore, a heathen by Bev's standards, had managed to avoid hurting anybody after the Monsignor let him be changed by the "angel".

an ATHEIST caused less harm than the preacher and UGH that just feels so good and warm and fuzzy in my chest

and Hassan’s whole part of the show? hnnn that hurt. his desperation to keep his son Muslim and not let him give into the flashy promises and miracles of the fanatical Christians? all while still trying to be a good father who loves and accepts his choices as he draws away from him? OUCH!

but that scene with them praying on the beach as the sun rose cured all my sadness about Ali being swept up in the madness

i wish Bev's death was more cruel, tbh but ehhh the fact that everyone was just ignoring her and nothing was going her way was good enough i guess lmao

anyway, good show. difficult to watch at times, but still good. Mike Flanagan please never stop making series, they're so well done and make me feel so many emotions.

i don't know how closely this story followed Stephen King's books, but hey, props to him as well for only killing like 300 feral cats and one dog. pretty tame for the dude

[cheifcornerstone]

Hey dude, please take the ex christian, ex catholic and exvangelical tags off your pinned post.

These tags are not for you, they're a space for those harmed by christianity to vent and post about various things that happened to them in religion away from religion, and seeing a post like that in those tags just brings up all the religious trauma caused by christianity.

I see what you're trying to do, you want to bring those who left back to god, creating a bunch of prodigal son stories with that post. There are, however, several problems with that post preventing you from doing that.

First off, wrong tags, if someone in the ex christian and related tags sees it they'll only be pushed further away because of the trauma it triggers.

Second wrong arguments, the fine tuning argument, moral argument, kalam cosmological argument and the others you're trying to use there are not just debunked, but are thoroughly debunked, so you're just looking like an embarrassment trying to use them.

Your best course of action would be deleting the post entirely, but if for whatever reason you feel you can't do that, at least take it out of the tags where it's doing more harm than good, aka the ex christian, ex catholic and exvangelical tags

Hey Anonymous Tumblr, I will not take off the tags off my pinned post.

These tags are for anyone who wants to use them according to Tumblr TOS. You are making an assertion that this tag is only for traumatized people and that cannot be proven. The tags are there for anyone to find a post related to said tag. I think that leaves a lot of room for interpretation and good things as individuals we have the agency to do that.

You can’t possibly know what I am trying to do so I will tell you. I like to engage in civil discourse with other tumblr users to strengthen my resolve and theirs. We both learn something and can walk away all the smarter for it. Why ex tagged? I like talking to people who are well versed in religion and are skeptical enough to question it. These are my people being an ex-convert myself. You are not the arbiter of what causes trauma and what doesn't. Everything and anything can cause trauma. That is why tumblr gives the opportunity to block users and post. Stop trying to frame me as an abuser when users have freedom to disassociate with me with a click of a button.

All theist arguments all have refutations, and all the refutations have refutations. It goes on and on like a little dance. Nothing has been debunked yet in regards to fine tuning and the moral argument. I spent hours hearing atheist arguments against these claims and ultimately it's up to the listener to decide what to believe. My best course of action would probably be to ignore you completely or just explain myself to you until I can't anymore. If you are writing this on behalf of yourself I am sorry you were hurt by the church. I am here for open debate and discussion. I wish you the best of luck but I will not change my post.

[automatismoateo]

So sick of fake Christians via /r/atheism

So sick of fake Christians My aunt passed away from cancer a week before Christmas. It was horrible and heartbreaking for everyone. My aunt was the kindest, most loving person you could meet. Well here comes my older sister (35). She loves to claim being this great Christian while our brother and me are atheists. I'm the middle of 3. My sister is in a situationship with a narcissist that no one likes. He makes my cousin's (aunt's daughters 18 and 21) uncomfortable. My sister likes to claim this dude is a "godly" man but he just sucks. Won't even call my sister his gf and lies all the time. Our younger brother (30) and I told our sister that she could not bring this guy to our aunt's house. That made our sister mad so she screamed at us and had the world's biggest temper tantrum. I was also going through a miscarriage while this was all going down and she knew. While she was at our aunt's house she continued to treat me terribly and did some really messed up stuff. While carrying a prayer book around. Now she's on a mission trip in south America. She sent me a message "sorry for hurting you" and then demanded an apology from me. This was after I spent Xmas eve in the ER bc I caught some nasty bug that won't go away. Except I was extremely kind the whole time I was around her. I'm not apologizing for protecting our much younger cousins during the most vulnerable time of their life. She pulled similar stuff at my wedding since it was a religion free pot friendly wedding. I'm just so over this nonsense. I don't understand how she can treat her siblings so terribly and then go "spread the word of god." Submitted December 31, 2023 at 10:52PM by TriscuitBiscuit787 (From Reddit https://ift.tt/7rRAOjJ)