#jcs meta

[disregardcanon]

there are so many moments in jesus christ superstar that i LOVE, but one of my absolute favorites is the way that jesus backtracks in gethsemane

"why, then, am i scared to finish what i started? what YOU started. i didn't start it." jesus in jesus christ superstar is bearing the weight of everyone's expectations and just. doing his best to try to manage them. judas wants him to stay grounded in his humanity and the opinions and thoughts of people on the ground. respectability politics is how you stay under the radar long enough to make lasting change. make the money to give to the poor, keep our reputations up strongly, we can make a real impact here and now if we don't get too loud.

simon wants him to rise up and lead a revolution. the people in need want him to heal all of them right now immediately even though he's just one guy with only so much ability and time and focus.

mary magdalene wants him to chill out and let her take care of him. peter and the background apostle gang want to be his posse as he gets big and use him to get big and famous. "then when we retire we can write the gospels and they'll still talk about us when we've died"

herod wants him to do his magic as a party trick to gain his salvation, as though that could save him

pilate wants him to deny what he's being accused of so that pilate "can save him", as though that was an option.

and then, of course, we have the absent god the father wanting him to die "far too keen on where and how, not so hot on why". and in the 1973 movie version we get this montage of different images of the crucifixion that implies god sent him this vision of how impactful his death will be, but he still doesn't necessarily tell him WHY, and in other versions there's no evidence that jesus gets... any answers. whatsoever.

different characters TRY to be attentive to his needs and thoughts during the musical, but even those who try very hard (mm, judas, pilate) just.. can't get through. because even if jesus told them.... there isn't anything any of them can do. the story was written long before any of them got here. and there are no answers left in its wake

[randomness-is-my-order]

for me, nothing at all changes about jiang cheng’s end-of-canon circumstances by the reveal that he distracted the guards that led to his capture by the wens after the lotus pier attack and the reason for it is simple: you can’t be redeemed by something you did before you committed your wrongdoing. the change of character and growth needs to happen after you fucked up. his prior “good” choices/“heroic” acts do NOT make him a better person in hindsight because he went ahead and acted like a piece of shit later on, anyway. it’s like saying a murderer should be pardoned because they saved a bird from dying ten years ago or that they donated to charity that one time, “omg look they had a good heart <3”. even the text treats it like this afterthought, contextually, because by the time any of it would be revealed—it’d have been way too late for anything to change. a history of violence and hate cannot be erased nor reduced by an action taken in good faith (if not good sense) before this history ever began.

redemption happens as a response to your choices in the aftermath of your fuck-ups (or in some cases, the narrative effectively nullifies the wrongdoing itself which leads to a blank slate/redemption; but that is NOT the case with jc), not as callback from the distant past when you were perhaps a less shitty person. many think jc revealing this “secret” would be significant in some way. but... how exactly would you expect wei wuxian to react to this revelation? show gratitude after jc’s choice inevitably led to the loss of his golden core? be happy that his once-buddy cared for him before jc contributed to his death and the death of the wens and the death of countless other innocents? imagine someone once close to you lied and betrayed your trust and say, framed you wrongfully so you got jailed. later, they recount how they kicked your bully in the balls when you were both in school. okay...? how the FUCK does that change anything? you are STILL in jail?

jc’s prior good will means nothing after the bridges he’s burned to the ground, burying them twenty feet under. and he knows this. he knows that revealing the truth will make no dents. wei wuxian won’t have a better view of him just because of it. jiang cheng’s actions do not gain a softer edge. the redeeming action has to come after the tragedies he has helped with and participated in. he’s not magically a better person with this context. he’s just as who he was before. because what we are evaluating his morals on was not his supposed love/care for wei wuxian but his actions. his violence. his hatred that targetted people unjustly. these do not change. these don’t go away. these should not go away. these should not be as easy to go away. that’s all.

[sonik-kun]

The fact that Jiang Cheng is described as looking more like Jin Ling's older brother, the latter having adopted his mannerisms and "tsundere" attitude just shows how close these two are.

Wei Wuxian even acknowledges it when he teases Jin Ling for his dog's name which he observed was similar to Jiang Cheng's.

Then, at the end of the book, Wei Wuxian quickly recognises that Jin Ling just wants to protect his JiuJiu from political enemies. Likewise, Jiang Cheng wanted to protect Jin Ling and keep his position as a new sect leader safe and secure. He wants him to have a protective adult figure in his life that can guide him because Jiang Cheng was deprived of this when he first started as sect leader. 🥺

They truly are all they have, and I love their relationship so much 😭😭

Jiang Yanli would be so proud of them 🥹

[mxtxfanatic]

The cutest but also funniest and most ironic thing about wangxian’s relationship in their first life is that from the outside looking in, it really does seem like they don’t like each other! But when they reflect on their memories of the other, it’s always sweet af.

Wei Wuxian spent the whole Cloud Recesses arc “pestering” Lan Wangji, while Lan Wangji would always blow up on him and reject his invitations to hang out. But when Wei Wuxian returns to Lotus Pier? He fantasizes about inviting Lan Wangji over to give him a tour of his home and show the other teen how he lives. On the other end, Lan Wangji has kept all of Wei Wuxian’s gifts—even skirting his clan rules to do so—and goes on a one-man quest to explore the foods that Wei Wuxian had told him about in casual conversation. Wei Wuxian had reoccurring dreams about running a somewhat isolated farm with Lan Wangji as his immediate neighbor. Lan Wangji, concurrently, was having rated R dreams about Wei Wuxian’s library punishments. When Wei Wuxian gets surprise-kissed on Phoenix Mountain, not only does Lan Wangji take it harder than he does when it happens, but Wei Wuxian is absolutely ecstatic to find out that it was actually Lan Wangji all along, which is also his reaction to discovering the teenage Lan Wangji’s wet dreams.

Even their infamous Sunshot Campaign “fights” are remembered by Wei Wuxian as moments where Lan Wangji was just displaying worry for his wellbeing, a worry that Wei Wuxian was unable to validate due to circumstances outside of his own control. Once the war is over and Wei Wuxian is removed from the setting where he must act tough and untouchable for his own survival, they are able to have a peaceful, level-headed conversation acknowledging the root of Lan Wangji’s worry and also Wei Wuxian’s acceptance of it even with his inability to change course in order to assuage it.

But the greatest thing about this relationship dynamic is not that it completely upends the story setup of “enemies to lovers,” but that it also shows that if nobody else understands them, wangxian understand each other. At no point in time did they ever think the other hated them, even if they fought or parted on bad terms during stressful situations. At no point have they ever truly misunderstood each other—not their feelings or intentions—except through outside instigation. They have always been on each other’s side, and if that’s not the most romantic shit you’ve ever seen, idk what is!

[hellamorte]

so. i've replayed the demo once more, and this scene baffled me at first, his indifference and displeased face like?? hello??? what happened to our knight in shining armour?? and then i realized it's one of the very few moments he lets himself be real.

it's clear that leander doesn't like getting involved when he might look bad to one of the parties, so this is such an honest and raw reaction when he has to act, when he has to choose between the loyalty of his followers and the potential gain of doing 'business' with mc, and he hates it. also the way he slides back into his good guy mode in the last sprite is just so tasteful 🤌

i think he chooses to take mc's side not because he likes them so very much, but because it's the path of least resistance: bloodhounds are most likely to stay loyal anyway, someone mentioning the senobium is obviousy not a big deal — well, not big enough to go into a fight with your leader, — and the bandaged hands, on the other hand (what a lame pun!!!!!!! sry), are a very promising tidbit (remember that information is currency). like i'm sure leander guessed there was something wrong with mc from the start, just didn't know the details. btw mc noticed his act — the practiced speech of help offering and his suspicion about mc needing a magical solution.

also i'd like to pinpoint that he's the only one eliciting that vital piece of information from mc to potentially gain leverage. it's not like we as players have any choice here but hear me out: even ais and vere (!!!) are showing some kind of respect regarding mc's hands. ais stops mc before they undo their bandages and vere is 'careful not to disturb them' when grabbing mc's arm. did leander reaalllyyyyyyy have to go that far (also if mc hesistates to touch him, he will grab their hand himself :DDD)??? he wants to make sure you need to trust him and him only like dude. i'm still not over the piece of a dialogue below i mean how can he be so honest and manipulative all at once?!?????

"you were right to hide this from me (but now i know). that curse of yours... it's unlike anything i've ever dealt with (i can't help you). i can tell you're discreet (praising) but you'd best not go showing that off to anyone else (so that only i know your secret)"

and the most fascinating thing? i don't think he's a genius mastermind or anything of sorts, he just gets people, operates on an intuitional level, it comes to him naturally, and most of the times he believes that he's doing good.

tl;dr leander is one of the most interesting characters i've ever come upon and it's captivating to see him slip out and back into his goody two-shoes persona and i hope we'll get more moments when he's raw and real soon 👀

[gusu-emilu]

been thinking about how wen qing is an interesting blend of wei wuxian and jiang cheng's characters

wq is devoted to protecting her brother and has to constantly scold him for trying to befriend/help wwx because it'll put them at risk. she has to constantly weigh what she thinks is right with her duty to her clan and the dangers she and wn could face for going against that duty. very jiang cheng of her.

at the same time, she shoulders her burdens alone and keeps wn in the dark about their situation. i'm thinking in particular of an episode during the wen indoctrination camp arc where wn asks why he has to stay away from wwx and wq answers "you don't need to know why." part of how she tries to protect her brother is by hiding the truth from him. very wei wuxian of her.

her personality is harsh, she has a sharp tongue, and she's logical and straight-to-the-point. yet she softens for the people she cares about. very jiang cheng of her.

she is a mastermind in her field who challenges the boundaries of what is possible, inventing an incredibly risky surgical procedure and then (under ethically dubious circumstances) successfully performing it on the first try. very wei wuxian of her.

in the end she sacrifices herself to save wwx. also very wwx of her.

[qiu-yan]

thoughts

also wasn't sure what to do with the lan simp brothers so i guess they can sit on the side

[dallasgallant]

The gang with Pony really is those “taking the lord of darkness for a day out” memes. In my reread/watch, he is observant and imaginative yes— but pony is also a bit of a “doomer” to use modern terms. He really harps on and cannot fully absorb all the rough and unfortunate reality he and his friends have to take (see the rough breaks Convo after the Drive in and in the lot) — he is so in this negative spiral.

*at Soda fountain*

Pony, holding ice cream : we will never amount to anything. We will stay and suffer

Totally unprompted. Just having a completely normal if not nice day and he’s so caught up in himself 😭 goes back to this post and getting exposed to the rest of the world/having a ‘touch grass’ moment

Pony doesn’t see the best in things off the bat, it’s really Johnny who does that, after pointing out the sunset and Pony’s own mentality that is when Pone really starts to fully consider the broader world/others. Wakes up to it/recognize what seeing sunsets is There were hints of this but he was too caught up before. - lot of metas I have coming up all link back to my point on him leaning to learn to be content/appricate what you have instead of wallowing in the bad.

Not invalidating his feelings, especially not as a 14 year old going through a lot of bad and traumatic stuff one after the other but Jesus, kid…

[whetstonefires]

yk i've seen a fair amount done with Liu Qingge and Jiang Cheng as parallel characters, because like there's this angry sword guy who's very bad at communicating and very attached to the protagonist and wishes he wasn't, and ends the story in the 'not chosen' position. no argument here. that's fine.

kind of want to see though what you could do with Jiang Cheng and Luo Binghe as parallels.

guys who fulfill the narrative-structural role of 'antagonist' for a big chunk of the story, who are also the guy the protagonist would die for, and kind of literally does.

and in both cases the book makes space to convey both why each of them kind of deserves that, as much as anyone can, and also absolutely doesn't deserve it (derogatory), and also doesn't deserve it (sympathetic (that's such an awful thing to do to someone who loves you, holy shit; don't self-destruct for people and expect them not to take massive damage)).

[disregardcanon]

just got done watching the 50th anniversary touring production of jesus christ superstar. here are The Thoughts

i've watched either the movie or a different bootleg of jcs during the week of easter for the past 8 years. i LOVE jcs and am very familiar with the material, so this was not a first for me except for seeing it live

i'm not sure if the setup for the staging was unique, but there were 3 big parts: 2 two level bits that were set up towards the back (one that was used almost solely for the instruments) and then in the middle was a very large, elevated cross made of grated metal. it was where the smoke machine bits came through and it had bright lights that hugged the edges.

the way that the cross elevated a bit in the middle of the stage and bisected it was really cool. it let different actors (a lot of the time jesus pre-arrest) elevate themselves over the rest of the scene, and created a pretty clear divide between two different events/sides.

costumes- most of them were what i'd expect from a jcs production, but i was impressed by how lowkey and modern jesus's civilian clothes were (the khaki shorts, the loose white top, the light gray hoodie) and then the way that the leader guy of the I BELIEVE IN YOU AND GOD SO TELLLL ME THAT I'M SAVED! has jesus's exact same outfit but with the colors of the shirt and hoodie swapped. i dunno that worked for me. judas's look, of course, SLAYED in the don't you get me wrong number. sparkling like a star, with his hair all done up in this brilliant and gorgeous updo... *chefs kiss* and then pilot's crown was good and subtle and i love love loved herod and his gang. herod had a big goofy overcoat that gave him a cartoony frame and then he took it off and was in this straight up cabaret bright gold high boots outfit with french revolution aristocracy era face paint and get up. the lackeys had on these striped outfits and harem pants and the like, big circles that surround your head kinda like a dog cone? and at the very end of the number when he's encroaching in on jesus and about to kick him out he kicks the head of every single lackey who's on the ground in a line, like waiting for a beheading? and then it like SPEWS BLOOD along their neckline and the cone. visually appealing, horrifying, and interesting, especially with the french revolution imagery.

they did this really interesting thing with guitars and microphones with the actors. so jesus had a guitar that he carried around with him a lot and peter did too. jesus took it out during emotional moments and the way that they framed the gethsemane number to start with was him just working out his emotions through song? he plays the number himself (and he and peter were playing on pilot's first little number, which is interesting symbolism) and then as he finally builds to a point where he can't keep going he unplugs the guitar from the amp and goes to cry and finish the number with no mic.... just him.

additions on gethsemane- as he was winding up to the FIIINNNNEEEEE I'LLLLLL DIIIIIIEEEEE bit, the lights started flashing from all different directions. in the divine intensity. you will be doing this. you don't have a choice. then jesus, who's mainly performed in a much more.... traditional? style than neeley's jesus finally DOES take it into that piercing, 70s rocker falsetto belt.... and to have that happen right before he finally... does give up. just collapse into a little pile of just him, no more lighting anymore but this single spotlight on this sad, tired little man... the heart. it wrenches. then judas comes in from the Super Secret Suprise Entrance Cross and everything just keeps going.

super funny when we got all the apostles looking between each other when judas and jesus have their fight and judas leaves and then peter strums a cord and restarts" ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT I'D BE AN APOOOOSTTTLLLEEEEEE"

caiphas was, unfortunately, hot.

thinking about the shift of the ensemble so quickly from We Are The Sinful Temple Fuckers to We Are The Ailing of the Earth and how the ailing surround and overwhelm jesus and the way that it just. is visually even more in person

the use of the mics was also interesting. the high priests had mic stands that they always came in with as props and the dancing with them was cool and worked well, and then jesus/judas/mary passed around a mic some, both on the mic stand and without it. and especially when it was on the stand it gave this sense of... presence and importance. a lot of the judas-mary altercations were spent moving the mic back and forth and it was +++++ especially since we saw the microphone taken away from jesus when he was arrested (taking away his power along with his guitar, his ability to express himself). the mic's cord was ALSO used in really interesting ways. the first time it really comes up is when judas is realizing that he's been duped by the narrative and he's been left with the bag... and then he stretches the bright red cord out to its full length as he climbs up to the second story and threads the cord to stage the hanging... with the microphone. the lighting in this scene was great and just UUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHH watching judas send the microphone over the edge and leaving IT hanging as the symbol of judas's death. fucking. fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

the other time that the microphone cord itself comes up is in pilot's last number, when the crowd is getting increasingly YOU HAVE NO CHOICE CRUCIFY HIMCRUCIFY HIM! and pilot's like. uh. how about i beat him? will that satisfy your blood lust? and he fucking wraps his mic cord around jesus's hands and holds him in place with it??? like oh my god. that made me feel some kind of way.

peter brought his guitar back out when he and mary magdalene were singing about how jesus should probably make things stop sucking now, please? then them on the smaller, more cut off scene watching jesus get beaten and sentenced to crucifixion. the powerlessness of that staging

jesus spends most of that number physically on the ground. he falls off the cross to the ground. he's so bloody and broken looking and it was painful.

the way the crowd shifts from being the taunting crowd to the JESUS CHRIST! SUPERSTAR! background singers. but. this staging... it had jesus. out during this number. and the chorus kept on hurting him as they KEPT DEMANDING ANSWERS? just like the way that they made every character who did that a guard (they had different roman emperor heads, it was great) and then. jesus is still there. he is still broken and beaten and Not Yet Crucified. and they're passing him around like emma perkins in inevitable.

(and his horror keeps going on)

something about how they gave judas's actor bright white hands after touching the blood money to contrast against his dark brown skin. something about how in this show he gets both pilot and jesus's symbols of being doomed by fate (pilot's bloody hands, jesus's crown of thorns).

like. they do not crucify this poor motherfucker until after the entire staging of "don't you get me wrrrroooonnnngggggg". and then we have to watch him raised onto the cross and his painful cries and everything. a few murmured notes from the crowd. then it's just a few actors helping to take jesus down off the cross and judas sitting on the edge, looking forlorn and regretful and just. so lost.

and a tattered jesus manages to move to the spot across from him, and sends him a tiny smile. he takes the crown of thorns off his own head and passes it over to judas.

the lights go down and the show is over. judas is forgiven. he's elevated! he's trapped!!!!!!! he and jesus are here together in this story that neither of them can control. they share that knowledge, and then the lights go down.

i am no longer the same. i don't want to be

[peekaboo6293]

I guess the way I read it, he was looking for an excuse why his heart was beating so fast…

[dephoraowo]

I feel like some people in the fandom need to go read a dictionary because where on earth does the novel even show Wei Wuxian having a hero complex?

The novel literally shows the opposite:

The suction from within Biling Lake was growing progressively more powerful. While Wei Wuxian’s sword excelled in dexterity and agility, a lack of strength just happened to be its weakness, and it was forcefully pulled to lower and lower altitudes until it was close to the surface of the lake.

Wei Wuxian steadied himself while yanking on Su She with both hands, shouting, “Somebody come help! If I can’t get him up, I’m gonna have to let go!”

And this:

“Stand back,” Lan Wangji said. “You are not needed here.”

Wei Wuxian humbly took his advice and backed off. He backed all the way to the entrance and took a peek outside. Wen Ning was in the middle of stoically strangling Song Lan, lifting the man by his neck and slamming him into the wall, creating a giant man-shaped hole in the process. Song Lan, also expressionless, seized Wen Ning’s wrist and flipped him over, crashing him into the ground. Loud, incessant bangs and booms accompanied the battle between the two stone-faced fierce corpses. Neither side could feel pain, nor were they afraid of injuries. Unless they were cut to pieces, they could keep fighting no matter how many limbs they broke.

“There doesn’t seem to be a need for me here either,” Wei Wuxian mumbled to himself.

If the fandom is so desperate for a guy with a hero complex, they don't even need to worry. We already do! In fact, mxtx was so generous, she literally gave us two!

Wei Wuxian was observing the terrain as he fled around, setting off flames. Suddenly, a sharp pain stabbed through his arm. He looked down to see he had been shot by an arrow.

As it turned out, the Lan sect disciple whom Lan Wangji had glared at earlier had found a bow and arrow abandoned by the Wens and tried to shoot at the yao beast. Perhaps because of the beast’s fearsome savagery and agility, the boy’s hands were panicked and unsteady, and the shot had flown astray and pierced Wei Wuxian instead.

Wei Wuxian had no time to pull it out. He struck the ground again, calling forth another surge of flames.

“Back off! Don’t make more work for me!”

The sect disciple had wanted to fell the yao beast with a single shot to its vital spot, in hopes of regaining some of the face he’d lost earlier. Who could’ve thought it would turn out like this? His face flushed progressively paler as he fled into the water.

Let's not forget this scene:

Before walking away, Wei Wuxian repeatedly exhorted him to sit still and not to move. At least they weren’t too short of money—he had a habit of hiding small change in various corners of his clothes, which came in handy now. He walked around and bought food and dry rations to prepare for the long journey ahead. It took him less than an incense time to grab everything, after which he immediately returned to the spot where they’d separated.

But Jiang Cheng was gone.

...

Jiang Cheng struck a palm at him. The strike was so weak and feeble that Wei Wuxian did not even sway.

“Hit me all you want. As long as it makes you feel better.”

“Did you feel it?” Jiang Cheng asked.

Wei Wuxian was momentarily taken aback. “What? Feel what?”

“My spiritual power. Did you feel it?” Jiang Cheng pressed him.

“What spiritual power?” Wei Wuxian asked. “You didn’t use spiritual power at all.”

“I did.”

“What exactly… What did you say?”

Jiang Cheng repeated himself word for word. “I said, I used it. I used all my spiritual power and then some for that strike. So I’m asking you—did you feel it?”

Wei Wuxian stared at him, falling quiet. After a moment, he said, “Try hitting me again.”

“Forget it,” Jiang Cheng told him. “No matter how many times I hit you, the result will be the same. Wei Wuxian, do you know why Core-Melting Hand is called that?”

Wei Wuxian’s heart sank.

“Because his hands can dissolve golden cores and render the victims unable to form new ones,” Jiang Cheng continued. “Their spiritual power will dissipate, reducing them to nothing more than ordinary humans. And an ordinary human in a cultivation clan is good for nothing. They can only live out the rest of their common lives, abandoning all dreams of ever ascending higher.

“Wen Zhuliu dissolved Mom and Father’s golden cores. Once they lost the ability to fight back, he killed them.”

Wei Wuxian’s mind was in turmoil. At a loss as to what to do, he murmured, “…Core-Melting Hand… Core-Melting Hand…”

Jiang Cheng laughed grimly. “Wen Zhuliu, Wen Zhuliu. I want to seek revenge. I have to. But how can I? I don’t even have a golden core anymore, and I’ll never be able to form a new one again. So how am I going to take revenge? Ha ha ha ha ha ha, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha…”

Wei Wuxian’s legs gave out from under him. He stared at Jiang Cheng, who seemed to have gone insane. Words failed him.

No one knew better than him just how competitive Jiang Cheng was. How much he valued his own cultivation and spiritual power. And with a single strike, Core-Melting Hand had shattered his cultivation, self-esteem, and hope for revenge to smithereens!

Jiang Cheng howled with laughter like a madman. He lay back down on the bed with his arms spread open and abandoned himself to despair. “Wei Wuxian, why did you save me? What’s the point of saving me? To let me live on uselessly while I watch the Wen dogs run rampant?”

...

Though awake, he remained motionless, not even flipping over and asking where they were. He wouldn’t eat or drink. It was as if he was interested only in dying.

“Do you really want to die?” Wei Wuxian asked.

“I can’t get revenge even if I live, so I might as well die. Who knows, maybe I can even turn into a malicious ghost,” Jiang Cheng said.

“You’ve gone through Soul-Tranquilization Rites since you were a kid. Even if you die, you won’t turn into a malicious ghost,” Wei Wuxian commented.

“Since I can’t seek revenge dead or alive, what difference does it make if I live or die?”

After that, Jiang Cheng didn’t speak again.

...

Jiang Cheng’s mind and face were both racked with confusion. “Then why was I able to pull it out?”

“Because the sword recognizes you as Wei-gongzi,” Wen Ning answered.

Lan Wangji stood up, lifting an unconscious Wei Wuxian on his back.

“What do you mean, it recognizes me as Wei Wuxian?” Jiang Cheng snapped. “How?! Why me?!”

“Because the golden core presently channeling spiritual power in your body is his!” Wen Ning snapped back, even harsher.

...

“Your golden core was never restored,” Wen Ning said. “It was completely dissolved by Wen Zhuliu! The reason you thought it was restored was because my jiejie, Wen Qing—the best doctor of the Wen Clan of Qishan—cut Wei-gongzi’s golden core from his body and used it to replace yours!”

Jiang Cheng’s face went blank for a second. “Replaced mine with his?”

“That’s right!” Wen Ning said. “Why do you think he never used Suibian again, and never carried his sword with him when he went out? Was it really because of some youthful indiscretion? Did he really enjoy it when others spoke ill of him behind his back or to his face, saying he was rude and had a poor upbringing? It was because bringing it along would be pointless! You see…if he brought his sword along when he was invited to those banquets and Night Hunts, there would inevitably be someone wanting to duel or spar with him for whatever reason. Without his golden core, he had no spiritual power. If he drew his sword, he wouldn’t last long at all…”

Jiang Cheng stood dumbly rooted to the spot. He looked queasy, and his lips quivered. He even forgot to use Zidian as he suddenly dropped Suibian to the ground and struck Wen Ning on the chest with his hand.

“You’re lying!” he bellowed.Wen Ning was forced a couple steps back from the blow. He picked up Suibian from the ground, sheathed it, and pushed it against Jiang Cheng’s chest.

“Take it!”

Jiang Cheng unconsciously took the sword. He didn’t move but looked at a loss as his gaze turned toward Wei Wuxian. He would have been fine if he hadn’t looked. But when he did, Wei Wuxian’s despondent expression and ghastly pale face—with blood still gathered at the corners of his mouth—was like a hammer smashing his heart. Moreover, Lan Wangji’s gaze chilled him so keenly he felt like he had plunged into a frozen cavern.

“Take that sword and go to the banquet hall, the drilling grounds, anywhere,” Wen Ning said. “Order everyone you come across to pull it from its sheath and see if anyone can! Then you’ll see if I’m lying! Sect Leader Jiang, you…you are such a competitive person. All your life, you have been competing with and comparing yourself to others. But know this—you could never have compared to him!”

...

Out of the blue, Lan Wangji asked, “Is it painful?”

“What?” Wen Ning said.

“Extracting one’s core. Is it painful?”

“Lan-gongzi. You wouldn’t believe me if I told you no, would you?”

“I assumed Wen Qing would have found a way.”

“Before going up the mountain, my jiejie prepared many anesthetics in hopes of alleviating the pain of extracting his core. But later, she realized such medication would be completely useless. If the subject is in a numbed state when the golden core is extracted from the body, it affects the core’s stability. It becomes harder to prevent it from dissipating.”

“…Therefore?” Lan Wangji probed.

Wen Ning pausing in his rowing. “Therefore, the subject of the golden core extraction procedure has to be completely conscious for its full duration.”

He had to be conscious as he watched his golden core be cut from his meridians and extracted from his body. He had to feel his surging spiritual energy gradually subsiding, calming, turning ordinary—until it became a pool of stagnant water that could no longer make waves.

It was a long time before Lan Wangji found his voice again. It was a little raspy, and the words he spoke seemed to tremble. “Its full duration?”

“For one day and two nights,” Wen Ning said. “He remained conscious throughout.”

“At the time, how confident were you of success?”

“About fifty percent.”

“Fifty percent.” Lan Wangji soundlessly drew a deep breath and shook his head. He repeated, “…Fifty percent.”

His hand tightened its hold on Wei Wuxian’s waist, gripping so hard his knuckles turned white.

“After all, no one had ever conducted any sort of core-swapping procedure before,” Wen Ning said. “My jiejie had written essays on the subject, but they were only theoretical. No one would ever let her experiment on them, so the theories remained untested. The sect’s seniors said she was indulging in flights of fancy, that the idea was completely impractical. They knew no one would ever be willing to extract their golden core and give it to someone else—because if they did, they would be fundamentally crippled. They would never reach the pinnacle of their ability but would remain mediocre the rest of their life.

“So when Wei-gongzi returned to seek us out, my jiejie was reluctant to even attempt the procedure, at first. She warned him that writing an essay was one thing, but actually doing it was quite another. She wasn’t even confident she’d have a fifty percent chance of success.

“But Wei-gongzi kept pestering her. He said fifty percent was fine; the chances of success and failure were equal. Even if it didn’t work out and his core was wasted, he wasn’t worried about his future—but that wasn’t the case for Sect Leader Jiang. He was too competitive, too focused on what he stood to gain and lose in this aspect, since cultivation was his life. And if Sect Leader Jiang could only ever be an ordinary, mediocre person, his life would be over.”

Definition of hero complex:

A hero complex, also known as a saviour complex or hero syndrome, is a psychological phenomenon where a person seeks recognition for being a hero. Hero complexes can be detrimental to the lives of others and put innocent people at risk.

A person with a hero complex may:

- Create situations where they can be the hero and resolve them

- Take responsibility for problems that aren't theirs to solve

- Offer unsolicited advice

- Overstep boundaries

- Strive to be the ones to save the day, no matter the odds or situation

In the examples above, we can clearly see that Wei Wuxian knows his own limits. If there is something he can do to help, he will help. HOWEVER! He will not help if he knows that it isn't within his own capabilities because there's a chance that, if he fails, he might ruin the situation further and make things worse than it is! And I know people will be using this as a refute, so I will also say it here. Wei Wuxian will not make risky decisions UNLESS THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE! None of the novel's textual evidence mentions any kind of instances in which he acts "recklessly" with his own life in a situation where any other action other than risking his life would have achieved the same or better results. If there are safer options, he will not make such decisions.

This is the direct opposite of Su She and Jiang Cheng. Su She was clearly trying to save face by killing the Xuanwu of Slaughter, "playing the hero," but he failed, either due to lack of skill or just not in the right headspace, and made things worse.

In Jiang Cheng’s case, I honestly don't know why he distracted the guards. Did he do it out of love, or was he just trying to "play the hero?" I say this because the novel didn't even say that the guards spotted Wei Wuxian. It just says they were patrolling around the area. If he did it out of care for Wei Wuxian, why didn't he take responsibility? If he really did try to save Wei Wuxian from the guards, why was Jiang Cheng not willing to live with the consequences? Did he not expect to be captured by them? He overestimated himself if that's the case. And he made things worse for Wei Wuxian because after that stunt of his, he just wanted to die. Not only that, he literally made his own sacrifice into Wei Wuxian's problem. And how could Wei Wuxian, who had just promised Jiang Cheng's parents to take care of him, let him die like this? So Wei Wuxian was forced to give up his core to give Jiang Cheng a reason to live. (Honestly, Jiang Cheng could still live as a normal person. He could still lead the clan as a normal person since a clan follows bloodline. Doesn't matter if he is competent or not, core or no. We literally have Jin Guangshan leading the Jins for goodness sake, does that man even know how to fight? Jiang Cheng just can't stand being an average dude, which is so ironic because in Wei Wuxian's second life, he literally became an average dude, even with a core. Man couldn't even defeat Jin Guangyao.)

[randomness-is-my-order]

the myth of helplessness and the “hands-tied” rhetoric for authority figures in mdzs

i’m pretty sure every one of us has seen this notion echoed around for atleast one of the clan/sect leaders when it came to their compliance and/or active participation in the wen remnants’ genocide as well as their prior lack of help/refuge for the wen remnants once wei wuxian had rescued them. while this goes beyond just the way the cultivation world’s leaders handled the aftermath of the sunshot campaign (namely, their lackadaisical approach to helping civilians, exploiting those weaker than them, etc.), i’ll start with the genocide because that’s the crux of it all. that’s the nail in the coffin, that’s the biggest proof of why i feel so fucking angry whenever i see this sentiment of excusing/justifying/or even explaining why the sect leaders did what they did.

and like most skewed interpretations of mdzs (and i don’t mean this in a haughty superior way of only MY way of reading the text being THE right way but i feel like this is something we all have noticed after traversing the fandom waters for a while), this too begins with jiang cheng.

now, let me clear: jiang cheng, in full sobriety and clarity of thought, led the siege of the burial mounds to kill a group of innocent people, which included elderly women and men and a child. you would think this should be obvious but i’ll retierate: NOTHING justifies this, nothing excuses this. the same applies to every single sect leader and sect affiliated member who went for the siege that day and participated in the killings, whether directly or indirectly. this isn’t a nuanced situation and i personally feel that a discussion that begins with the premise of muddying the culpability of the people involved in the genocide shouldn’t even be entertained because the reasons do not matter. they just don’t. it doesn’t matter that nie mingjue’s personal philosophy stemming from his upbringing and loss gave him a narrowminded view of the “wen-dogs”. it doesn’t matter that jiang cheng was sunken in grief and rage after losing his sister. it doesn’t matter that the lans were convinced of wei wuxian’s deviousness and found it paramount to put an end to him and his affialites. it doesn’t matter that some were operating on half the information because when you march into the temporary residence of your supposed foes and kill them all in cold-blood despite them being unarmed and untrained—the weight of ensuring that your violence has a meaning, a justification is on YOU! if you’re committing this act, you have to make sure you aren’t being led blindly by manipulating rumors and ideals.

even before the genocide, before the nightless city massacre, before the qiongqi path ambush—the way i’ve seen handwaving of jiang cheng’s mindset regarding the wens is a little baffling. “he had the burden of being a sect leader” “he had to protect his clan, his hands were tied!” jiang cheng wielding power and authority are often repackaged as baggage that his poor self is so tragically saddled with. it genuinely puzzles the shit out of me. have we all forgotten about “with great power comes great responsibility”?? jiang cheng’s responsibility as a cultivation sect leader goes beyond just the immediate thought about his sect and towards the cultivation world as a whole and how injustice was taking place by a fellow prominent clan. we know this is extremely important because the whole reason the sunshot campaign happened and why it came down to a war was because of prior negligence by the clans towards the congregation of power by the wens. to recognise the same methods now being employed by the jins was, infact, part of jiang cheng’s responsibility. just saving your own neck doesn’t work, when the larger picture is considered. besides, giving the wens the backing of the jiang clan would NOT have brought down instant doom upon the jiangs. that was the whole point. that was why jin guangshan felt it necessary to put ideas into his head and lead him to a path of hostility towards wei wuxian (which is still a choice jiang cheng made, mind).

also, while we’re at it, you’re telling me that the jiang clan rebuilt in part due to wei wuxian’s insane gravitational pull towards aspiring cultivators, would NOT have stood behind wei wuxian if jiang cheng had only tried? hell, i would go far as to say that some jiang disciples would have WANTED to join wei wuxian’s side. there was risk. there would be trouble. but that doesn’t mean jiang cheng had no option. the path of least resistance leads the crooked men, does it not? besides, being a leader is not about tucking tail and keeping your head down. it’s about making the difficult choices and yes, for jc, in this scenario, refusing to help the wens and wei wuxian was the easy choice.

also this whole myth about the sect leaders not being able to do anything because their clans would become targets is sort of antithetical to the whole premise of them being sect leaders in the first place. they’re the only ones who can do something with comparatively less risk to their person and those they’re “protecting” because they have the power of organisation. if the holders of authority cannot make decisive lines in the sand and push for change and resist, who can? the disciples or civilians would have an easier time opposing the clans individually or in groups, you think? they would have less to lose? (we already have an example in the form of mianmian; the waves had to be made from the top in this time-sensitive situation).

these fanon tropes originate from somewhere i know. it’s interesting to think of how these authority figures perceive their power as burdens, how the prince doesn’t want to become king but is forced into the role, how inheritances, even the ones that favour you, can feel like shackles around your neck.

but this kind of sympathetic view of the antagonists and the wrong-doers in mdzs leaves a bitter taste in my mouth because time and again, we have been shown how these sect leaders are blissfully happy to reap the fruits of their inherited power and generational wealth and are the ones most protected by the system. jiang cheng was perfectly fine being the sect leader by default and his grievance was moreso that wei wuxian wasn’t around to be his subordinate. the less that is said about jin guangshan the better. even lan xichen’s troubles didn’t come from him holding power but from his prolonged semi-wilful ignorance regarding jin guangyao. nie mingjue, while alive, used his influence to make his voice heard and condemned the wens because that was his unshakeable opinion on the matter.

now, this isn’t to say all the sect leaders were the same brand of callous and incompetent. yes, they had their problems. yes, their positions didn’t automatically make them immune to harm. but they were not the poor little burdened leaders with “pragmatic” point of views, trying to keep their boats afloat.

the ones with their hands tied were these: the lower classes in the pyramid. the ones who relied on the clans for shelter and food. the civilians whose requests for help were denied by the cultivation sects. the wen remnants who couldn’t do anything to save themselves. wen qing and wen ning. wei wuxian, whose every avenue of help was closed. mianmian. and even, imo, lan wangji.

there’s another similar notion towards wei wuxian that because he was a subordinate and because he has lesser social standing, he had more “freedom”. what ass-backwards logic is this, to be honest? when has having lesser social status, political power and monetary resources given a person more freedom? more freedom would mean that wei wuxian could do anything he wanted and go unquestioned. more freedom would mean that he would be able to practice the ghostly path without every second person accusing him of demonic activities. you know who had more freedom? the nie sect! their resentful energy dabbling went unquestioned because they had more freedom, they were protected by the reputation and might of their clan. nie mingjue’s hypocritical stance went unquestioned because he had freedom, precisely because he had more power. wei wuxian having a big personality, being flirtatious and not being a picture-perfect version of properness (he had good manners regardless) is not having more freedom. if he had that personality and no one accused him of being arrogant and if it wasn’t used against him as means to sully his reputation, then yes, that would be true freedom. this last part is probably redundant but hope the point of it was relayed. just because wei wuxian’s able to authentically be himself despite the backlash he receives for it does not make his social standing somehow a more advantageous position to be in compared to the literal leaders of the cultivation world.

in conclusion, the sect leaders did not have their hands tied by some inherent circumstance, their thrones of power were not ill-begotten curses they were trying to escape from but all the tying was done by them and their ropes which they gleefully tied around the necks of the wens to silence them forever. and if that sentence makes you uncomfortable, great. because that’s the reality of what these people did.

[sonik-kun]

Jiang Cheng maturing early, stepping into the role of sect leader from a young age and building his sect up from the ashes without any guidance is as tragic as it is admirable 😔

[mxtxfanatic]

Mxtx, creating a beautiful and well-rounded female character that appears only briefly: Hey, isn’t it fucked up that this character who is so important in the world of this story and to the people that knew her can only be known to you, reader, through flashback memories because the people in power were willing and able to sacrifice her in their never-ending quest for ultimate dominance? Do you feel the constant grief over what could have been had her potential not been killed in its infancy? Do you understand that you as a reader are mourning in the same way that her loved ones she’s left behind are, knowing that the world has been changed for the worse by her premature death? Doesn’t it suck?

(English-speaking) Mdzs fandom the bane of her existence (probably): Killing women in stories can have no other meaning than that you hate women, so this was a misogynistic choice, actually.

[rejectedfables]

in awe of the donghua for slapping "Jiang Cheng had to give up his dogs as a child so that Wei Wuxian could live with him in Lotus Pier" into the same episode as "Wei Wuxian refuses to give up the Wen dogs Clan Remnants so that he can live with Jiang Cheng in Lotus Pier".

Really hammering that nail home about how Jiang Cheng has repeatedly given up everything he reasonably can for Wei Wuxian, and how Wei Wuxian (with one major exception) simply does not do the same. Wei Wuxian does whatever he thinks is right, and does not evaluate the collateral damage of those choices.

His major exception, his one major sacrifice that's done explicitly for Jiang Cheng, is something that he grapples with for the entire rest of the story and which Jiang Cheng is barred from knowledge of until the end, preventing Jiang Cheng from being able to feel that there's been any kind of reciprocity between them. From his perspective, he has given and given and given while Wei Wuxian has simply done whatever the fuck he wants forever, and the second that interfered with the Jiang Clan he... simply left the Jiang Clan. From his perspective, actively prevented from knowledge that would prove him wrong (which he WANTS, by the way, he WANTS to be wrong), Wei Wuxian has taken and taken and taken, and then fucking left.

Anyway they're both right and they're both wrong and I love their messy complicated relationship and the donghua's choice to put these two scenes back to back was HUGE brained