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girl4music · 4 months

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I’ve had enough of people referring to ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ as queerbaiting and claiming that the creators of the show were committing it so I’ve gone on an extensive Google search and pulled up this AftenEllen article written all the way back in 2008 and I’m transcribing the full thing right here because if people don’t want to voluntarily do their research when they make their insulting claims then I’ll provide the source for them and force them to read it because I refuse to allow them to disrespect the creators/cast/crew like this in making their completely off-base assumptions about a TV show that I’ve been watching since I was 5 years old.

This is an interview with the creators/cast/crew of ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ where they express their opinion on what they think would happen with the lesbian subtext between Xena and Gabrielle if the show was made for today. It’s why many of us don’t want a remake or reboot or revival of it of any kind.

Do not ever come for ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and the incredible people that either made the show or were involved in the making of it around me. You have absolutely no chance in winning the argument!

[Viewers never had to look too hard to find the lesbian subtext in Xena: Warrior Princess, but that’s still what it was: subtext. And while lesbian fans in the 1990s might not have had any choice but to settle for that, would things be different if the show were being made – or remade – today? When I attended the Xena convention in Burbank, Calif., at the end of January, I asked the show’s creators, producers, writers and stars if the world is ready for an openly lesbian relationship between Xena and Gabrielle.

“To me it was main text,” said Renee O’Connor, who played Gabrielle, in an exclusive interview with AfterEllen.com. “And even if it was subtext, it was very clear that we were together. They are so in love with each other, they love each other so dearly; there’s no way you can say that’s not true. Anyone can see that from watching the show.”

I asked her if she thought that relationship could be openly acknowledged if the series were being made today. “I don’t know,” O’Connor answered. “Maybe there’s a little bit more hint of acceptance today. Maybe, maybe not. You can only put it up and see what would happen. I guess we could do anything, just get it out there and see how it affects people.”

In a lot of ways, Xena flew under the radar during the ’90s. Viewers who didn’t perceive (or didn’t like) the lesbian subtext could see it simply as a story about heroic friends righting wrongs and battling villians. If the show were being produced in today’s post—L Word television landscape, it’s hard to believe that audiences would be quite as oblivious.

But O’Connor doesn’t think that a more overt presentation of Xena and Gabrielle’s relationship would have changed the moral heart of the series. That’s because she sees those two things – the love between Xena and Gabrielle and the series’ focus on the fight against evil – as inextricably combined.

“If we were just starting Xena right now, I know what the relationship of the two characters is,” O’Connor said. “So even though we wouldn’t blatantly talk about all the issues involved, because I don’t think that’s what the show is about, it’s still about defeating oppressors and wanting to do the right thing for the world. And that comes down to these people and how they love each other.”

Lucy Lawless, who played Xena, isn’t sure how acknowledging a romantic relationship between the two women would affect the show’s reception if it were being made today, but it could have changed the way audiences perceived it in the past.

“There might have been more general discussion about whether the characters were lesbian or not out in the mainstream,” Lawless said. “In the 1990s, when this was all new, people like Ellen [DeGeneres] and k.d. lang and all these people who are out were blazing a trail. And you might hope that it’d be done long ago. But in a lot of the world, it’s still incredibly painful to come out, even today.”

Then she laughed. “But let’s have a go. Let’s do it. Why don’t we make a Xena movie? Just tell a bloody good story and let the fires and torpedoes be damned.”

A Xena movie doesn’t seem any more likely today than it did a year ago, but I asked Lawless if she thought the sexual relationship between Xena and Gabrielle might be brought more into the forefront if a movie were made.

“I think that’s a good question for Rob,” she said, referring to Rob Tapert, the series’ co-creator and her husband. “I know he’s been thinking about this for a long time, mulling it over in the back of his mind. He’s got a great feeling of where the world’s at and what he can make that’s progressive and gutsy and still have it be financially successful.”

Backstage at the convention, Tapert considered the possibility of a more openly queer Xena and Gabrielle. “It’s a tricky question,” he said, “because if Xena were being made today, well, there’s two different Xenas. There is the one [in which] people could read between the lines, and that played to one audience.

“Then there’s one that played to kids, or that played to 9—17-year-olds. And they didn’t understand the subtext, nor did they get it. So like the finest of Disney films, that plays to all audiences; that was a balance we tried to find. Making it today, I don’t know what would happen.”

He called series co-creator, producer and writer R.J. Stewart over to ask his opinion. “Could there be more commitment to the subtext?” Stewart said. “Well, I think if it was a cable show, absolutely. But if it was the same kind of broader market, I think you have to be more inclusive. But yes, absolutely, I think that a cable version of it could work that way.”

What if a film were made today, based on the series? That would be a different proposition, Stewart said. “When you make a movie you always try to stay pretty close to the original in feeling.” Then he laughed. “Now, if you could just get Oxygen to order some episodes …”

However much fans might wish for another season of their favorite show, not even out lesbian Xena producer and writer Liz Friedman (pictured left, and currently a producer on Fox’s House) thinks it would come back as an ancient Greek action-adventure version of The L Word.

“As much as I would love to see it – and I’m speaking as somebody who watches The L Word obsessively – there was something really wonderful and romantic about the relationship between Xena and Gabrielle,” she told AfterEllen.com. “And I think it’s actually easier to have romance without sex. You don’t then get into issues about ‘Will this relationship last?’ There was never – well, until they started killing each other’s children – the question of a breakup.”

I asked if she thought that times had changed enough that a series could now be made with two legendary female heroes shown unambiguously as romantic partners.

“If you look at the lesbian relationships that are on TV now, it’s either niche-market stuff like The L Word, or it’s Cashmere Mafia that gets you all excited because there’s a kiss in the pilot, and then by Episode 3 she’s hitting on boys again,” Friedman said. “Certainly in a single-lead action show we’re not ready for an openly gay heroine yet. Well, I think we’re ready for it. I don’t think the networks are going to let us do it.”

Then she laughed. “Look, obviously I’m biased. I loved the show the way it was, so it’s like, don’t talk about messing with my Xena. It worked pretty well, thanks very much. … If I were doing the Xena movie I would try to get there to be a kiss, but there are plenty of ways that you can do that without changing what the relationship is.”

That raises the question of just how much would have to change in order to bring the subtext into the forefront.

It’s undeniable that there are some scenes – and even whole episodes – where it’s hard to make sense of what happens without believing that Xena and Gabrielle are at least a little bit more than friends. Most of the time, these moments occur in the more humorous episodes, but as series writer Steven Sears told AfterEllen.com, “We didn’t cross the line completely but … these are two women who live together, travel together, had domestic duties together, die for each other, fought for each other, continually say how much they loved each other, but no. They’re not in a loving relationship.”

Steven Sears talking with Christie Keith

He shook his head. “Excuse me?”

Writer Katherine Fugate (currently executive producer of Army Wives) sees it much the same way. She is the author of “When Fates Collide,” widely considered one of the most subtext-friendly – and romantic – episodes in the entire series.

Katherine Fugate

Set in an alternate universe where Xena’s old enemy, Julius Caesar, has imprisoned the Fates and used their loom to undo the events that led up to his assassination, “When Fates Collide” is about the inevitability of both destiny and love.

In Caesar’s new reality, Xena is his empress. A famous Greek playwright named Gabrielle comes to present her latest work to the Romans, and in the greatest romantic tradition, she and Xena are struck with what can only be called love at first sight.

They gaze at each other across crowded rooms. Xena casts tortured glances at Gabrielle when she is called away by her husband. They stare longingly at each other from their balconies in the moonlight. Xena gives her life to save Gabrielle, and Gabrielle risks destroying the entire world to save Xena’s.

Caesar calls Gabrielle Xena’s “girlfriend,” and his violent jealousy would make absolutely no sense if Xena and Gabrielle weren’t being depicted as lovers.

And, in fact, that’s just how they were being depicted. Fugate appeared at this year’s convention and spoke with AfterEllen.com backstage. “The paradigm in my episode was that they find each other in any lifetime and they were meant to be, no matter what body they were in or what gender they were,” she said. “These souls were entwined somehow. And that, to me, almost has more a spiritual connotation than a sexual one, although I personally believe that they were lovers and had a committed relationship.”

She added: “I think we touched people, and it was multifaceted with all the spiritual components as well as the love. But the love was so intense, and ‘We’ll find each other in any lifetime,’ I think, is profound. I don’t know many shows that say that, period, heterosexual or homosexual.”

Given that, it’s surprising there wasn’t a kiss in the episode, something that had been played with both teasingly and tenderly (if briefly) in earlier episodes.

“There was a kiss written in which was more definitive, and it’s in the script that they sell here [at the convention],” said Fugate. “So my intention was actually to push that envelope, and I was really supported by Rob and R.J. and everyone. But ultimately they pulled it, because they wanted to maintain it for the finale.”

The finale is, of course, a sore spot for Xena fans; mention of it during R.J. Stewart’s appearance triggered the only boos of the convention weekend. He took them in stride, defending his decision to kill Xena at the series’ end, but there’s no question it took the shine off the climactic kiss the two women shared in “A Friend in Need.”

Fugate, who announced at the convention that Renee O’Connor will play a lesbian on Army Wives later this year, is optimistic about the possibility that a show about two female heroes who are openly lovers could be made today.

“This may sound like a writer’s answer, but I think anything works if it’s well-written,” she said. “If you have respect for the subject and if you can find a universal theme, anything will work.”

She said she feels that doing that would be easier today than it was in the ’90s. “We probably couldn’t push the envelope as much then as we could now,” she said.

“The subtext issue gets asked a lot; I think everyone here has been asked about it. And I think that’s because it obviously touches people, and we had an opportunity to dignify these relationships. And everyone felt it did that. I think both the lead actors have come forward and said this is how they view their characters and how they played them. We did what we could.”

If they did what they could in the ’90s, what could they do now? Sears said he’s thought a lot about that question, and he’s not optimistic. “As far as the marketing mind is concerned and the studios,” he explained, “if a movie came out they would play with it, they would toy with it, they would try to appeal to the male heterosexual audience, because in their minds that’s who’s attracted to these kinds of films, these action films. They don’t want to turn those people off.”

Then Sears pointed out the dark side of main text. “The horrible thing that might be done is that they would then say, let’s go completely commercial with this thing,” he said. “They would have the characters kiss, have the characters imply that they had a sexual encounter, and then have them realize, well, that was just an experiment. Now let’s go back to men. That’s the worst possible thing that could happen. But it’s also one of the most possible things that marketing could do.”

In light of those fears, a dozen intimate moments in the hot tub, soulful glances and fireside nights spent in each other’s arms don’t seem so bad. And neither do Renee O’Connor’s final thoughts on how Xena might best be made today.

“I always wanted people to look at it as unconditional love,” she said, “especially people from the conservative side who didn’t want to see anything like that. Just watch the show, and see what you want to see. I still think that today that would be the best way to put the series on.”]

SOURCE: https://afterellen.com/bringing-out-the-warrior-princess/

#xena warrior princess #xena and gabrielle #xabrielle #bringing out the warrior princess #if xena were made today #afterellen #queerbaiting #eradicating the claims of queerbaiting once and for all #renee o'connor #lucy lawless #rob tapert #r.j. stewart #liz friedman #steven l. sears #katherine fugate #wlw representation

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countrymusiclover · 7 months

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3 - A Sloan Date

Part 4

Feisty Coffee Girl

Running my fingers through my hair I chuckled nervously feeling my face turn red with the interns watching our interaction. “I guess I’m meeting you for the second time, Mark Sloan.”

My entire body had frozen at that moment. I reached into my pocket of my coat drawing out my phone. Scanning through my phone contacts I saw that the number had called me when I had picked up my daughter from school. “You've been blowing up my phone for almost two weeks.”

“I thought you would have called me back by now if you were interested and most people I’m with are typically interested when we first meet.” Mark responded to me shoving his hands inside his coat pockets.

Christina spoke up first behind us. “You know the Mark Sloan.”

“Not really. We only met one time when I worked at the coffee shop.” I corrected her statement before she assumed we had a long past together when we didn't.

Meredith raised a brow. “So how did you two meet?”

“He wanted a coffee and I gave him a scone recommendation. That was basically all.” I looked at the girl.

Izzie finally rounded the nurse desk grabbing me by the back of my jacket pushing me away from the coffee guy. “You listen here Mr. You stay away from her. She doesn't want anything to do with you!”

“Woah Iz dial it down a bit would ya. Nothing happened.” I pushed my way around her, not clear on what she was so pushy about. He was a guy that we were meeting for the first time. He couldn't wrong me from our first meeting.

Mark smiled at me, sending me a wink. “Don’t worry she'd have to let me take her on first before we could ever get serious.”

I felt my face turning red at his words and it only got deeper when our gaze locked onto the other. I didn't feel up to dating at the moment. I had my daughter to think about first and foremost before anybody else. “Mark, I'll at least take you up on your offer to buy me a drink.” I finally spoke towards the plastics surgeon.

“Y/n!” Izzie gasped in disgust.

Waving my hand at her I focused on Mark. “What time were you thinking or what time do you get off of work?”

“How about a quarter to never.” Izzir growled behind me.

Mark put his hands in the pockets of his dark pants. “I'd say around 7. Does that work for you?”

“That’s fine with me.” I replied back.

Someone cleared their throat behind him and we saw an older black guy standing before us. “Dr. Sloan can I see you in my office?”

“Sure chief. I'll see you tonight, feisty coffee girl.” Mark sent me a wink following him to his office on the next floor of the hospital.

Another doctor walks over to our group that had styled black hair and soft eyes that met in Meredith’s direction but says nothing for a few minutes. The man finally did say something to the group though. “So. Who’s the feisty coffee girl?”

“That would be me.” I raised my hand moving away from Izzie, extending my hand to the guy. “Y/n, Y/n Stevens .”

“Derek Shepherd. Nice to meet you. Uh I'm sorry but do you know the kid driving the wheelchair through the hospital?” Derek introduced himself before my eyes went wide, turning around on my feet.

I jumped backwards away from him when a wheelchair came running past us and I instantly saw my daughter being the one driving it through the hospital area. “Uh sorry but I have to go. I’ll see you later, Izzie. Eve!” Chasing after her it took me a good few minutes before I had caught up with her and we made our way home since I had to get ready for my date with a doctor.

“Why can’t I come with you?” Everly asked me eating her chicken bites that I had made for her in the oven.

Slipping on my tenna shoes I was standing in my bedroom with the door open so we could still talk. “Because where mommy is going tonight isn't a place for kids. Don't worry we will spend the whole day together tomorrow to make up for it.” I told my young child looking at myself in the mirror. I hadn’t been on a date in forever.

“I'll get it!” The doorbell rang with Everly opening it revealing Caroline who closed it behind her.

She sat her bag down searching for me. “Y/n, I want to see your outfit before the date tonight!”

“Does this look too simple? It feels too simple but we're just supposed to go out for drinks. I mean it isn't helping this is my first date since I had Eve basically but-” I was cut off with my best friend raising a hand.

She eyed my outfit, which was some ripped blue jeans and a light orange lace shirt that was short sleeved. I left my hair down where I had curled the ends of it to look slightly cuter. “You look cute and he clearly found you attractive in your work uniform so you shouldn’t have to worry.”

“Okay I’ll choose to believe you.” I smiled, calling my daughter over. “Everly!”

She ran over to me when I lowered myself down to a knee hugging her before I left for the evening. “Promise me that you will be super good for Caroline while I am gone.” She looped her pinky with mine and I did the same making our promise. The bar that we were meeting at was near my apartment building so I could just walk down there. Walking down a few different streets I entered the bar seeing Mark sitting at one of the bar tables.

“There’s my feisty coffee girl.” Mark smirked when I sat down on the barstool across from him sitting my bag on the edge of the table. His eyes scanned over me not dropping the smirk. “You look cuter than you did in your work uniform.”

I blushed, snorting out a laugh. “I would hope so, Dr. Sloan.”

“Dr. Sloan, you don’t gotta call me that when we aren’t in the hospital. We’re on a first name basis aren’t we?” Mark smiled with a waitress bringing over two shots of tequila.

Picking up the glass I corrected my last statement. “My bad, Mark. But if we’re on a first name basis, call me Y/n.” We both raised our shot glasses and downed the drink yet I scrunch my nose at the bitter taste not used to doing strong alcohol.

“You okay, Y/n?” Mark asked, seeing the reaction on my face.

Covering my face with my freehand sitting my glass down on the table. When I got pregnant with Eve I didn’t have my first real drink until the day she went to elementary school. “Sorry tequila ain’t my thing.”

“We can go for something lighter. I ain’t picky especially if we can meet up again.” He met my gaze, waving the waiter over to get some different shots for us. We had done about four or five different shots just talking about his job and my job.

I wasn’t sure if I could tell him about my daughter yet. Most of the time when I did guys pretty much didn’t call me back after the date or just left during the date. If it was just me and Eve for a few more years I’d be somewhat okay with that. “You really want a second date. I didn’t think a simple coffee shop girl would impress a plastic surgeon.”

“You’re not a simple coffee girl, Y/n.” Mark sat his glass down reaching for my freehand laying on the table intertwining his with mine. “There’s something about you that interests me.”

I blurted out the question feeling embarrassed the second I said it. “You aren’t just saying that so I’ll sleep with you?”

“I’ll prove it.” He responded quickly back.

A curious look crossed my face. “How ya gonna do that?”

“While we keep going out I won’t sleep with anyone else. I won’t even mention it unless you want me too. Does that seem fair?” Mark squeezing my hand waiting for my response.

Squeezing his hand in mine I agreed to the offer not knowing what I was getting myself and my daughter at some point into. “Sounds like an interesting challenge. I accept it.” The night ended with him walking me back to my building and nothing more.

Comments really appreciated ❤️

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