randomnameless · 1 year ago
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Beating a dead horse but seeing a post this morning (and an earlier fanart) made me think about it -
In good or in Bad, Nopes has characters mentionning how having a crest makes them “monsters” (in good it’s when Miklan supports someone and calls them super rad, in BaD it’s when Uncle Rufus insults Dimitri).
But it’s also, more or less, the same thing happening in the Momo paralogue - we have mentions of how Momo was “turned into a beast” due to his Crest power :(
We also the biggest fuck you - if the player knows everything about the lore though, where Marianne goes :
The Wandering Beast's eviscerated body... Only human bones and this sword remaining.
This “sword” is also a bone, but not a human one so we don’t give a fuck?
Anyways, more about the inital point to make : 
Many times in the Fodlan games’ script, we see the association that Crusts or Relics make people “monsters” and not “humans”.
And while we can muse and legit angst about the crested humans who are basically “insulted” because of their blood, what about Nabateans themselves?
In a verse where Supreme Leader and the Mole People keep on calling them beasts/creatures/other beings without “humanity” or capable of “human feelings”, how do they react to someone, maybe Miklan meaning it as a praise, calling a crested peep a “monster”?
Nabateans have crests, of course, and aren’t humans. Does this automatically make them monsters? Can’t they coexist with humans or even live with them, because they are “monsters” and not “humans”?
Are they still “monsters” when they are the one who look after humans abandoned by their own kin ?
Marianne ultimately goes :
The blood of a beast no longer flows through me. I feel human for once.
But what should Flayn or Seteth (or even Billy) think about this line? What does it mean to “feel” human? Seteth is a “beast” but writes fables for children, are his feelings “human”?
They are not bio-humans, so are their feelings automatically “not human”? Or something that is removed or cannot be understood by “humanity”?
(this reminds me of something in a certain route...)
Of course a positive point can be inferred from Marianne’s paralogue, who says this last line after having put an end to Momo’s sorry life who uwu “suffered for his murderous past” (nothing about Jack the Nabatean of course, it’s not like the games give a fuck about them, nor like Marianne reacts to Rhea’s infodump about her shiny sword and Momo’s sin) - was Momo a beast because of his “murderous past” and not because of his appearance/nature ? 
I’d love to believe it...
But FE16 reminds us that Miklan “turned into a beast” after using the Relic - or at least that’s what we’re told. Miklan was still “human” when he did his thief things, pillages and, in FE16, seduced women - but the second he transformed that’s when he became “a beast”.
We know how transformation in a demonic beast happens - when a human holds a crest stone or uses a relic - but in a way, Rhea’s lies also made sense : transforming in a black beast is a sort of punishment because the human who transforms, naturally, aka not Waldified, was in both instances we see, someone who was already a “monster”, albeit not biologically, but someone who killed/pillaged/did bandit things.
Something like “you act as a monster, then your body shall reflect it”.
Tldr : in a game where there are non-humans, what does it mean to be human? When so many characters angst about not being “humans” due to crests and whatnot, why does it matter at the end of the day?
Yes, Flayn is not human, but she has more compassion than the entire cast reunited given how she “died” to heal everyone once. Is she a monster because - assuming she has one - she can enter a bestial form, even if she has “human” feelings ?
Imagine Marianne or Claude telling a Nabatean, like Seteth, Momo turned into a Monster because of over usage of his relic, and Seteth being in a better game, reacting with something like “Maurice became a monster the day he participed in the genocide of a tribe of people living in mountains, feasted on their corpses and descrated them to craft a weapon, regardless of his outer appearance”.
No wonder after 1000 years of humans angsting about “no i have a crest i am not a human i am a monster :( :( :(” Rhea was afraid Billy would reject her after knowing she is not a human, having witnessed her “other form”.
And again, sure, Dimitri, Uncle Rufus, Miklan and the student cast (save for maybe Claude but the “humanity” nonsense was added by Pat) don’t know about Nabateans or the fact there are “non-humans” living with them, but Doylist wise, we’re still playing a game where Nabateans are “othered” and treated like “abominations” for the sin of not being humans, and humans feeling like “monsters” for having nabatean blood... and Nabateans themselves are never allowed to react to this.
As cute as Flayn’s supports with Dimitri were, we don’t have something where Flayn tries to ask him - in a roundabout way - if he would still be her friend if he knew she was not human but a “beast” (and Dimitri laughing at her because come on, Flayn, being a beast/monster? and then what, she roars? Monsters are people who slaughter others and love violence, even if she was made of, say, sugar cubes, or could transform in a giant wolf, she’d never be a monster!). 
Is it because of Earl Grey, or because this question trumps everything about “we want to tell a story about a 3 way war” and makes everything else pointless?
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yusuke-of-valla · 2 years ago
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I honestly can't remember when they are called lizard people; where do you recall them being mentioned to be lizards? The only reptile like people I remember from the game are the dragons themselves: Agarthans claim to be the original human kind is my extent of knowledge to the difference between them and the humans we see in game (Agarthans calling the ones in-game recognized as humans as 'Beasts' and 'Worms')
Anonymous asked:
Ah wait is that supposed to be about the dragons? They yeah sorry, no excuses there. When I first read it I thought the ancestral home was Agarthans. Sothis was in-game a space dragon, who (unspecifically) created her children from her blood, tried to work with the original people of the land (Agarthans) to make a great society, only for the Agarthans to believe they have equal power to the space dragon and warred against their benefactors, only to lose and go into hiding (implied for Agarthans to suffer heavy losses, not directly stated).
Gets a bit murky here, with the exact differences between Agarthans and Humans*, but they consider each other different species by the time Agarthans came up to incite a bandit into killing the Nabateans Mother and Idol in her sleep and take her blood and body for his own power. Later does this again with some of her most powerful children, genociding everyone except five of them. Seiros, one of the last children of Sothis, later makes a religion out of the remaining living Nabateans and her Mother, after giving aid to a King then slaughtering the forces of errant humans and some of their Agarthan allies (unknown total losses taken by Agarthans, though some were lost. Presumed entirety of the errant humans killed, including the bandit and his 11 main allies.)
Then it moves to the timeline of Three Houses/Three Hopes.
Honestly I think two of the biggest controversy leaders in the games are racist in their own ways, and lots of either blatant or implied racism is in the game. While the base game tries to make the Nabateans relatable, it takes until Hopes for the games to dig into the fact that the outer nations commonly warring with them are also human. And no such humanization for Agarthans.
Yeah the original post was about the Nabateans, which is why I said the Lizard people part is from an innocent place, it's obviously a take on "Tiki! But evil" (though... the series has had Evil Dragons before so really the real change of pace is, if we consider a E//delgard a viable "good guy" then the real change of pace is there aren't any "good" dragons)
The Agarthans, once again, do ruin everything about Three Houses story and morals which is.... and ARE conducting some sort of weird blood experiment on kindapped children which is.
God so many "secret shadowy society stories" have their routes in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion it's almost impossible to avoid if you're not doing your research. I would say Edelgard's big "this is why we're going to war" speech sets off more red flags for me personally, but I'm not Jewish so what the fuck do I know.
And again I'm not accusing anyone of being antisemetic I just think it's important to look at this stuff and say "hey, which positions kinda reinforce stereotypes and patterns of thought that have been used against Jewish people?" because it is DISTRESSINGLY common and under-discussed
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okay but the way Claude is the only lord that can meet all of the remaining Nabateans cuz his paralogue is the only way to know about Macuil... the Nabatean who specializes in wind just like Claude does... how Claude's the only lord (and one of the few characters period) that Byleth talks about Sothis living in their head with... how Claude and Rhea have so many parallels with each other... he has so many unique connections with the lettuce fam IS where were you going with this. why did nothing come of this
it makes me so sad that Rhea can't live on VW because then we really could've had a route where all the Nabatean fam is visible and living 😭
IntSys: so there's this kid, and his sole goal is to be done with prejudice so people like him never have to suffer the way he has.
Me: okay, I'm intrigued, go on.
IntSys: and then HIS route in this game focuses on the hidden history of this continent. In fact his unique side mission is to learn about a piece of that history.
Me: okay
IntSys: there's a race of people who've only ever called this place home, and yet they've been forced into hiding, hunted, treated as nothing more than objects
Me: 👀 Oh?
IntSys: so this kid gets to the point where he learns all this, from a dying woman of a dying race, still unable to be herself for fear of persecution
Me: so do they rally together? Does the embodiment of youth and hope help these people find their way back into the light? Do they create a world where no one has to hide for the mere factor of their fabrication? Their existence? Do they tie together tradition, community, and new dawns for people?
IntSys: lmao what? You thought this was GOING somewhere? You fucking idiot.
Me: But you set this up so nicely--
IntSys: Here, have the red emperor talk about walking a path with you
Me: Uh okay that's nice but I don't really know her--
IntSys: AND, for even asking such a stupid question, one of the genocide survivors is going to die and you can't stop it
Me: WHY?
IntSys: Fuck you ❤️ that's why
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gascon-en-exil · 4 years ago
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Crimson Flower lets Edelgard institute all her progressive reforms, and puts a definitive kibosh on both the Agartheans and the dragons. Various other character endings describe the slitherers resurfacing and being foiled again. Dmitri the emperor, and he's a well-meaning lad who probably makes reasonable strides against racism and systemic crest bias, but he largely keeps things going as they were. He makes it very clear that he hasn't thought very hard about his position in the world.
Edelgard, on the other hand, is justified in everything she does by virtue of her circumstances. At no point does she have any options other than declaring war on the continent or dying, because she has been in the clutches of the Agartheans her entire life. They want to use her as a figurehead, but make it very clear that they will bump her off if she steps out of line. She cannot prevent the war, so she instead makes it her own, and rallies her forces until she's can make a move against them.
Dimitri is a hereditary autocrat who secures his family's grip on the entirety of a continent, 2/3 of which he obtains through conquest. Really struggling to see the 'not an autocrat' angle here even if he does some positive reforms later in life. Like we get a fairly decent look at how non-traumatized Dimitri acts in CF and it all sets up that he entered into a political marriage and had a quick child to secure the inheritance. Hereditary monarchy is a scourge even if you have a 'good' monarch
FIrst, let’s get the most obvious thing out the way: there is no evidence that Dimitri has a political marriage and an heir in CF. 
The line about the Blaiddyd line continuing almost certainly refers to his uncle Rufus, who is killed in Cornelia’s coup in the non-CF routes but is presumably still alive in CF because she never gets the chance to carry it out. In the Dimidue death scene Dimitri expresses regret for not being able to get revenge for his family among others, so he’s still thinking of family in terms of his slain father and stepmother. I’ve also pointed out several times that Dimitri’s fondness for orphans is noted in story text and in AM’s ending tapestry, such that it’s entirely reasonable to conclude that he adopts regardless of circumstances as a way of diminishing the role of Crest-based inheritance. In CF his circumstances seem to be nearly identical to the Dimidue paired ending where there is no queen in sight and Dedue is a royal consort in all but name. I highly doubt they chose to adopt while fighting a war that’s by now been dragging on for over five years, so the conclusion about Rufus stands (even more so because he’s noted elsewhere to be a shameless womanizer so it’s likely he’s got one or more bastards somewhere). If you’re looking for a hereditary monarch who founds or perpetuates a dynasty, that would be Claude, or Byleth in various VW/SS endings. Quibbling over monarch vs. emperor has little meaning in this context, especially when Edelgard stepping down after an indeterminate amount of time and naming a successor is fully in line with real world dictatorships. Non-democratic systems of government are the standard for all of FE, although the beginnings of a representative government mentioned in Dimitri’s solo ending might be the single closest instance of a significant movement away from that even if it’s only a constitutional monarchy with the heir to the throne a Crestless adoptee. This follows naturally from the years of the timeskip where Dimitri was homeless and in and out of the slums of the Kingdom, where he saw the suffering of the common people firsthand and, as seen in the AM parley, came to understand their needs better than Edelgard ever attempts. In conjunction with Claude’s ignorance of the lives of the Almyran people as seen in his Cyril supports, it’s actually reasonable to conclude that Dimitri has thought about his position relative to his subjects more than either of the other leaders.
And speaking of Claude, Dimitri does not conquer the Alliance in AM; rather, Claude hands it over to him unexpectedly after the Kingdom army comes to his aid and fights off the Imperial army invading Derdriu. If Hilda is recruited in AM her monastery dialogue the next month reveals that the Alliance council peacefully agreed to go along with Claude’s decision to cede their territory to the Kingdom. This is incidentally a much better deal than the Alliance gets in either VW or SS, where Claude disappears either at the end of the game or after Gronder and it’s given to Byleth with no further discussion (and the same thing also happens to the Kingdom in both routes). The Empire at the end of the game is in much the same situation as every other antagonist nation in FE, with no one to rule it following the counter-invasion from the protagonist nation(s) because they’re all dead. Similar to Genealogy the picture does open up a bit depending on who’s alive, with Ferdinand, Lorenz, Marianne, etc. governing their respective territories if they’re recruited. Ditto unseen noble heirs like Holst and Caspar’s older brother who are still around to inherit their titles even with Byleth or Dimitri ruling the continent. As far as the Empire is concerned the two of them are as much imperialists as Marth, Seliph, the Renais twins, etc., a far cry from Edelgard in CF invading and conquering two sovereign nations without provocation, predicated in part on the basis that centuries prior they were part of the Empire so it’s acceptable for her to conquer them.
Now, onto Edelgard. You must be aware that Edelgard chose to ally with the Agarthans at Hubert’s suggestion, and she continues to make that choice for nearly a decade without any attempt at checking them despite knowing all the terrible things that they’re getting up to behind the scenes at the monastery and that they enacted earlier without her direct involvement to destabilize the continent and make her conquest easier, like the Tragedy of Duscur and the death of Claude’s uncle. As myself and others have noted attempting to spin her as a helpless victim of their machinations only makes her look incompetent and terrible in her choice of allies - not just the Agarthans themselves but also known murderers Hubert and Jeritza whom she cannot fully control with one frequently going behind her back and the other openly disobeying her multiple times on the battlefield. This in combination with Hubert’s status as the Manfroy to Edelgard’s Arvis leaves me very much in doubt of the Agarthans being truly eradicated in the postgame. Not only is this unsatisfying for the player, but given Hubert’s use of dark magic and dabbling in the Agarthans’ experiments (plus that he was the one who suggested the alliance in the first place, for all that he grumbles about Thales ordering him around) it’s more likely that he eradicates their leadership and then installs himself at the head of the remaining cult, folding them into his established network of spies and assassins. Hubert is one of my favorite characters in this cast, but he’s anything but trustworthy especially if his primary motivation really is wanting Edelgard to sleep with him when it turns out she never will, not even in their paired ending. In keeping with his status as the pathetic hopeless suitor pining for this game’s headlining waifu despite her overt attraction to the self-insert, sexual frustration is built into his character even if he gets a wife or if he and Ferdinand become the most notorious lovers in Enbarr.
Plus, if you look Edelgard actually does rather than what she says she aligns more with what the Agarthans want than the stated goals of her own propaganda. She completes their genocide of the Nabateans and unifies the continent with Agarthans in positions of great power. On the other hand she doesn’t eradicate the nobility as a whole but only replaces those who would oppose her seizing absolute power, which goes to support that it was the Insurrection of the Seven and not the Agarthan experimentation that truly shaped her worldview and motivations. The stated reasons she wants to destroy the church are provably incorrect - she knows they didn’t create Relics or Crests thanks to secret Imperial knowledge passed down from Wilhelm, and she must know that they aren’t all-powerful as the Empire disbanded the Southern Church completely a century before the events of the game with apparently no pushback from Rhea or anyone else - and one must therefore conclude that she instead targets them because they, like the Imperial nobles she replaces and like Claud e and Dimitri defending their nations, would oppose her solitary rule of the continent. It’s just awfully convenient that this goal also accomplishes the Agarthans’ main goal of killing or driving into hiding all of the remaining dragons. Saying that the war was inevitable because the Agarthans were slinking around setting it up to happen doesn’t absolve Edelgard of the responsibility of choosing to ally with them and playing right into their hands, especially when her conquest only noticeably improves her own situation, and possibly Hubert and Jeritza’s now that they have a license to kill, torture, etc. for an entire continent. All of the other Eagles go on to inherit what they would have inherited anyway, and all the reforms mentioned in the CF endings are the same or better in endings for the other routes only your side didn’t start a war and complete a genocide to bring those about.
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electricprincess96 · 5 years ago
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Hi, do you mind explaining why you like Rhea so much?
Because she's a well-written deconstruction of a series archetype who's trauma and struggles feel real on a human level (ironic since she's not a human).
She is the games "mad dragon" but unlike Hydra/Anankos from Fates Rhea is set up as the mad Dragon, Academy Phase plays her up to be this super secret bad guy when in actuality she's a Woman suffering from PTSD who only really goes mad when provoked and is shown to be kind to people who need her support and is self aware to know when to apologize. The only route she plays the actual mad dragon is Flower and even there if you know her backstory you see how she's been pushed to this. It makes sense unlike some other characters in this game...
Like just take her backstory, she's the youngest daughter of a single mother who has to witness her mother and siblings be slaughtered before her very eyes, she gathers the survivors of her race together in order to avenge her mother and once she does that she realises she's found herself at the heart of a new religious movement and people are looking to her for guidance. The girl uses what influence she has to try and curtail Crest Abuse (literally in the Book of Seiros she says humanity abusing Crests is what caused the Goddess to leave Fódlan) and she believes if she revived Sothis, Sothis would be able to come in and fix everything that's wrong with Fódlan because Rhea doesn't have the hard power to do so. Sure could she have maybe done more? Perhaps but it's possible if she did more then Edelgard's war on the Church could have come about generations earlier and Rhea's priority is to protect the remaining Nabateans more than anything else.
Although her main personal priority is wanting to see her mother again, so she tries to do what Sothis did when Sothis created her kids, she tries to create a living body for Sothis to inhabit but because Rhea isn't half as powerful as Sothis was she keeps failing. The pain she felt at each failure is palpable, you can hear it in her voice when she tells us about it. Like that's a motivation plenty of people can relate to especially if they've lost a parent.
Rhea also has every reason to hate humanity. Unlike Cichol, Cethleann, Indech and Macuil who all lived amongst humanities before the tragedy Rhea didn't, she didn't have a pre-existing reason to like or dislike humans but the tragedy should have gave her every reason to hate them yet we see repeatedly Rhea show compassion towards humans. She saves Jeralt and Catherine's lives, she takes in outlaws like Shamir and Catherine, she offers sanctuary to orphans like Cyril and the Remire Village Orphans and she risks her life to protect The Students, Monks, Priests etc at Garreg Mach when the Empire Invaded. Rhea is a genuinely compassionate person, she's just got pretty awkward social skills, her advice box questions show this.
Also I'm gonna have to throw some shade here... But unlike some other characters in this game I can look at Rhea's trauma and see exactly how it led her to do what she does and I can see the moments, particularly in Crimson Flower, where Byleth and Edelgard set off all her triggers. Rhea is a survivor of a genocide being forced to face someone who wants to finish what Nemesis started, her reaction makes perfect sense in that context. Another anon put it perfectly when they said if you removed Rhea's traumatic past it would feel like there is a part of her backstory missing because it influences her so much and is pretty well intertwined with her character unlike Edelgard who if you removed her tragic backstory not much of Edelgard as a character would change or feel that different.
Also Rhea is self aware enough to know when she's went too far. Rhea's S Rank is all about her apologising to Byleth for what she's done, for the people she's inadvertently hurt. There are other characters... Who are not as self aware of their flaws and shortcomings the way Rhea is. Rhea in all her alive endings bar her married Byleth ending has her going into self-imposed exile in Zanado with Catherine. Rhea knows when to call it quits unless you are threatening the extinction of her race, then she'll fight to the bitter end and quite frankly I don't blame her on that point.
For further reading: https://electricprincess96.tumblr.com/post/191003394116/i-dont-know-if-you-mentioned-this-before-but-your
Also just read my Lady Baea tag, it's most of my opinions about Rhea in various other posts.
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randomnameless · 2 years ago
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(not the voice line anon )
I do think Rhea knows it's inevitable for mortals to eventually die from old age and it's just a fact of life. The translation completely changed the words and tone of her lines though. Like yes I do think that's what Rhea kinda sorta IMPLIED but that's NOT what she said.
Also The problem with nemesis is it would take centuries before he and his elites will die from old age and with them alive it would mean constant war. Also theyre waging war using the remains of her mother and kin (who they murdered), I wouldn't let them live either.
I recall Apostle Aubin lived mad long like until he met Yuri!!! Which means nemesis, even without being preserved by TWSITD, could potentially last just as long! Endless war and suffering due to near immortal corrupt powerhungry genocidal humans is not ideal (which is exactly what TWS wants)
Also If fe3h is related to the 3 kingdoms... well historically, like before it became the 3 kingdoms , there was already alot of chaos due to warring warlords and Nemesis and the elites reminds me of warlords all trying to gain more and more power through conquest. Flayn did say they wanted to conquer the world
Oh.
Well the thing that makes me doubt it is how Rhea had human allies, I mean she was lugging around Wilhelm during the War of Heroes when Wilhelm was well past 100 (assuming he wasn't crown at 10 old lol), and until 21ish years ago, Jeralt was still fit/strong enough to be the Legendary Blade Breaker, Captain of the Knights of Seiros.
So unless crested humans's bodies age exceptionally fast past 280 years old (if Jeralt is 300 in Nopes) I don't think his general low perf battle wise is only due to his age.
Nemesis'n'Dudes were, at best, around 170-ish years old (let's say he was 20 when the Red Canyon happened, and it happens not earlier than -40. Nemesis was born in -60? He dies in 92, which would make him around 170-ish by the time he dies?) and were still forces to be reckoned with, Seiros the Warrior herself not stomping them. 100 years later they suddenly suck?
I mean, it's definitely possible, but saying this is the reason why he lost?
I can't see it - however, leaving the Knights and living on the run, not following the hard training regimen/mission knights do might have dulled his blade, Rhea herself complain about not letting her blade becoming dull by wanting to spar more with Catherine, so, idk.
Ahaha, Aubin and the Apostles are another debate lol, imo I'm firmly convinced they were Nabateans and not Crested Humans, but there are enough clues to go both ways!
As for Nemesis, sure, knowing how Nabateans want a peaceful Fodlan and Rhea had her personal revenge on top, she'd have most likely wanted Nemesis dead asap, but she still "waited" 70 years before going to war with him and 150 years after Zanado to kill him, if Jerry sucks because of old age, they could just have stalled.
Sadly, about all those points you raised, we can just theorise and honeypot and HC things away, because the devs dgaf about those things and unless we get a guidebook like Tellius did 10 years after its release, we might never have answers :/
(but even if the book is published, you can bet it'd won't be localised for the US market, unless Treehouse can edit it lol)
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randomnameless · 2 years ago
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Do you think Rhea like Dimi hears the voices of all her siblings and her mother? She does mention hearing her during SS' final boss.
:'(
Canon wise, yep, she hears Worst Mom's voice at the end of SS, which makes one wonder why Worst Mom didn't talk to her earlier, but w/c.
Now, about the relics, it's all headcanon land - and if you believe there is still something belonging to the OG Nabatean inside or... not !
I personally think they do, there's still something from the OG Nabatean (thanks to the Crest Stone) inside but whether to say they're conscious or not...
I was thinking of something akin to Envy's philosopher stone in FMA, when he morphs in his... true form and Edwards sees what he thinks are the remains of "people" (are they people??) talking to him.
The Nabatean's soul is still here, but in perpetual agony and with a lot of negative feelings (hurt, pain, betrayal, anger, etc etc).
They are both "dead" but also "still there", are they conscious and able to hold a normal conversation? I don't think so.
They are just here to suffer and be used as tools - this is what Relics are! - so Rhea wouldn't be able to talk to them.
However, her presence (or any Nabatean) "calms" them, because they can feel one of their kind who is still "fine" is around.
A living Nabatean pouring a bit of magic (their own) in a relic can somehow soothe and relieve some stress the Nabatean-turned relic has, but it inevitably stops after a bit of time, and they resume their "life" of hurting.
It is a well-known secret that whenever a relic goes haywire (user uses it too much and it starts to "twitch"/"shine" a lot, continuing this way would ultimately lead to a Momo) a Relic User has to bring the Relic ASAP to Garreg Mach and to the Archbishop, who is supposed to perform some sort of ceremony to make it "return to normal".
Rhea did the "maintenance" on Catherine's relic twice during her tenure as a "Holy Knight" of the CoS, and Rodrigue brought his shield once.
Crested Bearers, when their relic start to go haywire, experience a lot of very vivid nightmares, they cannot talk to the "Nabatean" but at times hear "someone" screaming in agony.
Dimitri, because the world hates him, had a very vivid nightmare where he experienced being torn apart by people wearing masks similar to the ones who instigated Duscur. When asked about his missing eye by Annette after the War, he tells her he already felt like losing every member of his body more than once.
(the dream is odd, he feels like he is towering some people, but then he falls, and there is green liquid everywhere, and he tries to reach out for something only to find out he has no arms anymore, and the people behind the masks laugh and call him a beast, and then they start to hack him in pieces)
Now, it is a tradition (or a sekrit vow, like Willy's sekrit journal) that is passed down from all users of a Relic to other users of Relic that over reliance on a Relic will "eat away at your soul" and also "bring the bearer closer to the land of the dead" - but no matter what, when the "terrible nightmares" about the land of the dead appear, they shall never reveal the contents of said nightmares to any member of the Church of Seiros.
Some people surmised that it is because those nightmares, and the Relics not being super rad actually goes against the Creed of the Church -
But actually, it was a vow made by the descendants of the Elites - who knew what Relics were after the War of Heroes - out of gratitude for Seiros sparing them, they resolved to never tell her about her brethrens's last moments.
The reason for that vow was forgotten, but it still remains anchored in Faerghus's noble houses (and as for the Alliance, some still believe in that old vow, while some dgaf about it anymore but since they are not religious they write it off as superstitious nonsense).
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electricprincess96 · 5 years ago
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Wilhelm I must have passed on the tale that edelgard heard to the future emperors bc it was the only thing he knew about what happened while living to see an alternate narrative created by the church. Seiros didn't likely tell him the full story at any point given that even the Elites seemed not to know what was going on really. Ergo, the story that edelgard inherited is the human pov on the War of Heroes while Rhea's is the nabatean version which has more details despite also being biased
Ok one I still don't think Rhea told Wilhelm she was fighting Nemesis over a minor disagreement. Like sure Wilhelm and the other people who got Crests got something out of fighting with Rhea but they apparently raised a large enough Army to eventually take over all of Fódlan. There had to have been more to that story. Also we didn't find out that the Elites didn't even know the full truth until the DLC books, any time I've spoken about Wilhelm and the story Edelgard tells it was pre DLC. I haven't discussed this topic post DLC and don't really plan to beyond this post because the games a hot mess, the developers didn't care enough to have a continuity guy so why the fuck should I care?
Also Rhea's version being "the Nabateans" version while Edelgard's is the "human version".... Rhea's people are literally mounted on humans walls, we use said Nabateans remains throughout the game and we know there's a connection to the Nabateans and the Relics because of Byleth and Sothis, Sothis' heart is required for The Sword of the Creator to function properly. This isn't a case of "my truth", the Nabatean were Genocide victims. The Developers have at no point claimed that isn't true because it is, Rhea is a Genocide Survivor, she's angry but like how would you want her to explain her backstory without being "biased"?
But regardless it's not an excuse for Edelgard to genocide an entire race or start a continent spanning war that caused a lot of death and suffering.
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randomnameless · 5 years ago
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Funny thing to consider - unlike Laguz or Manaketes - Nabateans use human weapons in their human forms.
Corrin too, but he’s the only Manakete in Fateslandia, there’s no “omg Corrin turns into a dragon how odd where do our powers comes from” plot thread from the royals because that’s not the direction the story wants to take; Corrin’s identity is questioned regarding Nohr and Hoshido but never regarding his draconic transformation
Which raises several questions, why Nabateans, back during the Nemesis days, didn’t fought as reptiles and how do they feel using weapons like humans?
What is their “true form”, reptile or human? Or both? 
Macuil doesn’t like humans, he keeps his bird form. But when he was Saint Macuil, he kept a human form. Did he dislike it? Idk.
Linhardt notes in CF that there must be some reason why Rhea didn’t take her draconic form to raze their asses before the final chapter - bar plot armour - there must be, indeed, a reason. Keeping a draconic form is more taxing? But then, Indech and Macuil keep theirs wihtout any drawbacks... (at least we don’t know if they have any)
Maybe the Saints thought, back in the days, that using their reptile forms would make humans afraid, they might want to kill them because “eww” and/or they’d be larger targets for Nemesis using Sothis’ spine.
Seteth lost his ability to transform. Is it because he bred with a human to give us Flayn (Tellius crap genetics strike again!) or because he suffered a trauma and since then he’s been unable to transform (trauma being, wife dead, Cethleann nearly dead, everyone in his family dead, his brothers won’t give a fuck and Seiros’ obsessed with avenging/reviving someone who’s pretty much dead)? Again, we will never know.
Still, he notes that he thought Rhea couldn’t transform anymore which is odd - does it mean that if you don’t transform regularly you’re locked into one form? Which would be why Macuil and Indech couldn’t revert? And if you force back a switch you have a high risk of turning berserk, like SS’ finale? (not VW but plot holes are a thing)
Nabateans used to cohabite with humans before Nemesis rang, is the form they pick an indication on their views on the future? 
Indech and Macuil believe that they cannot live with humans anymore - because they’re too different and it would, one day or another, create some sort of conflict.
Seteth and Flayn remain humanoids because they think they can bond and live peacefully with humans (in every route bar CF) - Seteth thought so since the very beginning if going to Enbarr to meet his wife, while Zanado still existed, is any  indication.
And Rhea doesn’t know. She lives peacefully with humans in the monastery, and yet, since she’s Zanado’s survivor, there’s always that fear that no, it is not possible, Nabateans and humans are too different they will never manage to live together - even if they do so for 1000 years, as soon as the jig is up they will turn, again, against them (remember CF?).
But noo, we will never know because FE16 can’t care about Nabateans, save for Sothis and I hate Sothis.
This is sad, because the game wants me to feel and be interested about Fodlan and the students, but I can’t give a fig about them, or if I do, it’s a way smaller fig than the one I give to Nabateans because, hey, FE16 gives us a genocide against dragons, dragons who try to blend in and live with humans, and dragons being hunted again because “eww dragons”.
Rhea exchanging with Naga, Duma, idk, Medeus and Mila would be fascinating.
Or, because it’s not tied to dragons given how FE16′s Nabateans are more akin to Laguz - Rhea exchanging with the Laguz royals.
But no, I’m sure that if Fe Heroes releases a forging bonds even with rhea, we won’t be able to have this because it’d mean Sothis did a fucking dirt job and IS doesn’t want to torpedo their gremlin mascot, or worse, Edel’s a villain and, well...
We all know how that ends within the fandom.
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randomnameless · 5 years ago
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Finshed VW!
It was... Honestly, I should have taken a break because I am kind of saturating with Fodlan.
Nevertheless, it was more interesting than CW and SS but not as character driven as AM.
I still... Don't understand Claude. I missed the point of the unification - why should the continent be more tolerant if it's united under a single leader - but apparently it's cool and everyone is okay so, uh... Why not?
Nemesis was focused on Seiros but didn't say a thing against cethleann or Cichol... Lorenz didn't say anything about Gloucester, it's the path to where Maurice paralogue was available so...
Meh point with Hubert though, as always he's complicated for deal with. Kuddos for him to prepare plans to deal with the Agarthians, but cucumber points for, uh, everything else?
Why are we supposed to agree with "wow Hubert is so intelligent he wasn't actually a bad guy the empire was being blackmailed by the aghartians :'(" when giving said letter explicitly confirms that they (the empire - Hubert and Elde at least) knew who they were alying with?? I swear everything and everyone is wearing effing blinders when it comes to the Empire' strike and unification of the world - expressing sympathy for a defeated foe is okayish, but when said defeated fore was using human turned into beasts, the very same thing that made everyone vomit back in the good ol' days at Remire?
Flamey said she didn't condone Thomas experiments, but in VW, she uses the results of his experimentations on her side, so again, what the fuck?
Lysithea is furious at the aghartians for what they did to her, she knows they're siding with the empire, and yet in her battle convo with Edel she expresses regret (maybe Edel suffered what i did?). Which is tlling because she (and everyone) acknowledges that the empire was used, but no hard feelings held against Edel for enrolling aghartians? (idk if lysithea knows that Edel knows (?) that her new friends were the ones who experimented on them - but elde knows what Lysithea went through - Lysithea knows that the aghartians experimented on her)
i maintain that lysithea in CF is in a Felix-tier of despair if she ever knows that she was actually helping the ones who made her life a limited shit - but it's highly suggested that no one save for Hubbie (and Emile??) take part in the aghartian extermination plan so...
I noted how Claude is furious at Rhea's refusal to spill the beans (@ultrakatua : you were right haha i never heard him so furious the jp VA really does his job which is a bit undermined by his sprite - he isn't shown to be Dimitri-tier of furious but he sounds like it!) but he notes himself that she didn't tell him everything about the children of the goddess.
Which made me laugh a little, Claude is used to get the things he wants (the diary incident) but when the nabateans avoid his questions he is pissed (in Rhea's case) or tries to jest around it but is still dead serious (in his flayn support) but in both cases he doesn't get everything he wants...  idk if it was here in the US version, but she says she's happy he turned out to be reliable/a responsible guy... which made me think, was she actually aware he was spying on her? or he was supposed to be the lolcalised memelord during his student days?
Anyways, she face tanks an explosions and she's out for the rest of the month... Given how Nemesis fixates on her, it'd have been awesome if she could join us but sadly it was not meant to happen. So no "we settle this old grudge with the two of us dying Claude (and billy because gfdi) i leave fodlan to you it is up to you to build a new future etc" :'(
I noted how her expodump felt like... an exposition dump and it was meh. Rhea said she was one of the children, said that walked around foldna searching for the remaining children - but Claude never notes on said "remaining children" (even if there's a possibility where Billy could suggest FLayn is a child of the goddess, Claude continues saying it might have been why her blood was used but nothing beyond that).
I didn't caught it the first time, but the ten dudes (+ momo) had their weapons before going to zanado, meaning that nemesis did his thing with Sothis, then his dudes did their things with some random nabateans, and then they made a bro trip to Zanado?
Rhea explicitly states that she could never forgive the ten dudes, so maybe Edel was right on that account, Seiros killed them but didn't kill their descendants (if jeralt is any indication they might have had great grandchildren by the time of their deaths given how their lives were expanded due to ingestion of nabatean blood)? This might be the breaking point that made Birdie cut all of his ties with his sister?
Nemesis dead Claude, now King of Almyra, fell in lovve with Marianne, Lorezn and Hilda married and Billy married the voice in her head because those characters can just eff themselves (which is the point of that support?).
That's it for Verdant Wind.
And I still don't understand Claude haha.
His "the world must be united to end racism" felt very... WTF, as WTF as CF suddenly telling us that we are fighting to unify Fodlan and not to first and foremost end the mad (?) dragon lady that tried to blast us.
Maybe because I've always wanted to see how a merchant republic/an alliance works as opposed to a monarchy, but we stay in the usual tropes "fig the republics". It's sad but this game has an hard-on with hegemony so whatever.
The almyrians angle was interesting (gdi i got the "you're not from fodlan you can't undertand" convo... Claude's problem is that he is from fodlan when the almyrians try to belittle him but he's a dirty foreigner when he tries to research and undertand the mysteries of the land he inherited and lived in/ran when it was under agression for at least 5 years instead of figging away to Almyra...) expect that it felt... shoe-horned? Yes he drops hints here and there, but Nader being his second in house leicester and being best pals with Holst who has been fighting him for decades is glossed over (or relegated to Gilbert's wife tier that is only mentionned but never shown despite its importance)
And poor claude being the Prince of Almyra feels like Aerone, that is being a prince of a country you don't know a thing of - the Cyril issue is glaring, and it's not because i like Cyril, but because hey, you don't know children are being used as meat fodder and captured by fodlanese people? Or just, they are effing used as meat shields on the border for "lol feasts" reasons?
Ultimately (bias talking) i still don't understand why there is this visceral need for Rhea to be gone - when he came to the conclusion that the academy was the most cosmopolitan place in the continent and that the tenets of Seiros don't prone isolationism - opposing Lorezn's dad's pov.
Which actually makes me think about his Edel comment "we had the same goals, not the same means", Edel's goal (well one of...) is to unify the continent, Claude's seems to want the same thing (again, just like Edel, this goal appears out of nowhere in the game script, it's not the official goal we start with (discover secrets/end racism/get rid of the dragon lady because she is mad) but the one we end with. And apparently, Rhea would be opposed to the unification of the country... for some reason?
Maybe i'm not reading enough between the lines - Rhea was here when Fodlan was an unified nation, she was there when it split, maybe she really doesn't want Fodlan to be unified again? Because it would diminish the "power" she has over countries?
idk.
Anyways, I need to wait for the last DLC.
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