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bru1sed-apple · 6 months

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this isn’t to dig on ur anti zutara post but rather start a discussion.

in my experience, the reason we zutarians don’t like zukka is because of the animosity we get from the fandom. we analyze the subtle details we are given because practically every zuko and Katara interaction in the show is because all of them save the first have some degree of zutara in it. their chemistry- be it platonic or romantic- is undeniable.

and yet, we are told by zukkas and kataangers that we are wrong for shipping the ship. a lot of zukkas sideline the women in atla- sokka is given a lot of Katara’s qualities that are stated in the show (ie: people claiming that sokka is the team dad when he literally confessed that he saw Katara more as his mother than his actual mother), mailee is just there (majority of the mailee fics on ao3 are just them being a side couple in zukka fics), and not to mention comradekatara’s posts from back when they were lesbians4sokka about Katara being homophobic. even if it was a joke, it was something that people took seriously. a lot of the same zukkas are the ones making fun of katara for talking about her mother’s death when that literally happened three times outside of the southern raiders episode.

dont get me wrong, I know that the zutara fandom was absolutely rabid in the early 2000s and that’s where we get our bad reputation, but the only time that we’ve had issues with other people in the atla fandom was when they interacted with our content and it blew up.

Honestly you make some points I agree and disagree with so I'll go one paragraph at a time

I do agree that some zutirans get hate that isn't deserved. I definitely think that a lot of the fandom doesn't like zutartians, I'm part of that group as well (for the most part). I also do think they have chemistry, but more in a way that's more like family rather than lovers.

I think the over-analyzing is a bit too much, I'm overwhelmed every time I see a zutara post. Obviously, some analyzing is okay, I sometimes analyze ships, but I feel like zutartians do it sm that it feels kind of annoying?? Maybe that's just me, but I feel like you don't have to analyze things just to justify your ship. Just ship what you like

I agree with the fact that zukka shippers tend to sideline women in fics. I've def read fics where katara is sort of villanized, and I definitely don't agree with that. A lot of the time, ppl prefer MLM ships to than WLW ship, (which if you ask me, is because ppl prefer male characters to female ones (*cough* misogyny *cough*)(though i dont think most of the misogyny is purposeful))

Idk if it's bc we're in different parts of the fandom, but I've never really seen ppl say that shipping zutara is wrong?? I've seen ppl say they don't like it, and why, but they always state that they don't care if people ship zutara and that they're only stating reasons they personally don't like it.

Perhaps it's because I tend to stay away from the more toxic part of the community because if I see smth I don't like I more often than not just scroll past. But I def believe that their are zukkas who are toxic, but I think some of that is just because ppl are toxic, no matter what fandom you're in.

I can't really speak on kataangers because while I do like the ship, I'm not really in that part of the fandom, so I'm not sure if ppl are unnecessarily mean to zutarians.

(Edit: nvm kataangers can be real assholes, I def believe that they're unnecessarily mean to ppl who dont ship kataang 😒😒)

As for the zutara Fandom in the early 2000s I can't really speak on that bc I didnt watch atla until I wanna say 2017 or 2018. So I don't really know what the fandom was like.

So yeah, that's kinda my take?? Idk I spent like a good while trying to figure out what to say 🤧🤧

#atla #zukka #kataang #anti zutara #im not gonna tag zutara cuz i dont wanna put stuff in zutartians tags if the post is about how i dont like zutara

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azulapropaganda · 6 months

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does the zukka fandom still praise lesbians4sokka and their homophobic katara headcanon?

i dont know what the zukka fans are up to and i dont know who that user is . sorry

#i thought the homophobic katara thing was a joke though #maybe ask someone else. i havent been keeping up with the popular atla blogs in years

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hugducks · 4 years

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Happy FFWF!!! What's a headcanon you have that you absolutely love the most?

Happy FFWF! Thanks for the ask :)

My current fav headcanon is ATLA related: Aang sometimes grants Sokka the ability to bend via energybending, all so that Sokka can screw with his boyfriend Zuko.

It’s so fucking chaotic and I love it (tho Sokka would never choose to stay a bender, not when his entire character and personality was built on the fact that he’s just. A normal person leading people with power. @sokka’s master).

#ladylanera #ask #ffwf #atla #sokka #energybending #zukka #lesbians4sokka

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cerise-hood · 4 years

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honestly ive decided to exist in a world mostly controlled @lesbians4sokka and their 10/10 takes

#azula...... zuko........ sokka... i simply cannot get enough #atla #lesbians4sokka

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lesbiansagainsttheatre · 4 years

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grinpayne is a member of the wells for boys cinematic universe (wfbcu)

#phia.txt #text #the grinning man #the grinning man musical #grinpayne trelaw #gwinplain trelaw #if you are unfamiliar with the wfbcu see lesbians4sokka for more info #wfbcu

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mazzystargirl · 4 years

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instead of making a live-action version of atla they should make a live-action korra, it has way more potential

#they could season 2 and unwesternize #it coiuld be amazing #but like i would put #youtube user ratuben hello future me and tumblr users lesbians4sokka in charge of it

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dargression · 4 years

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@lesbians4sokka‘s post made me feel a lot of feelings on how Sokka’s grief was denied in “Southern Raiders”.

edit: Made a separate art blog dedicated to ATLA fanarts and more. Follow for more content like this!

#atla #sokka #atla sokka #atla fanart #kya atla #southern raiders #atla season 2 #atla s2 #my art #rhysuje

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my-bated-breath · 4 years

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On an Immensely Popular Post

Disclaimer: What I’m writing here may not be completely accurate -- like most works of art, literature, and even STEM tend to be -- and as a new fan of ATLA, a few of the metas I publish may be obsolete or unintentionally insensitive. That being said, I like to believe that I can contribute something valuable to this fandom. In all my (real) metas, I wish to be as objective as possible and not rely on my biases, fanon, or common “knowledge” that may just be misconceptions. If anyone reading this finds something to be false or contrived, I am always welcome to constructive criticism. What I am not welcome to is senseless hate or bashing.

My first experiences with the ATLA fandom begun a long, long time ago, but the most recent and powerful revival of my love for ATLA started with me actually watching the show and soon after, with me falling into the endless abyss of ATLA metas on Tumblr. Sifting through the well-written analyses and the emotion-based rants had taught me a lot about critical thinking and the power of influence, so now I’d like to present a meta that critiques an extremely popular post with over 60,000 notes. And since it’s so popular, this is the part where I must make yet another disclaimer.

Disclaimer: I hold nothing against lesbians4sokka (whose name has now been changed to comradekatara). They have the right to share what they want, but since this particular post has become so influential that it’s still being reblogged regularly to this day, I believe it is within my right to criticize it - emphasis on “criticize,” which is different from “hate.”

Now that that’s out of the way, let us begin:

Lesbians4sokka/comradekatara covers 3 main subjects in their post, which I will quote/summarize below:

(1) Ma/iko: “...the entire foundation of mai and zuko’s relationship was built on how miserable they were together, and how they would just sit there and hate the world together— letting their misery fester as they enabled each other’s depression— and I think that’s really unfortunate because they would work so well as friends if they weren’t trying to make their dumpster fire of a relationship work.”

(2) Zutara: “similarly, what makes zuko and katara’s dynamic so compelling is that they share the same flaws, only as opposed to mai’s apathy and misery, it’s katara’s rage and guilt that zuko identifies with. they both share trauma over having lost their mothers, and both in a similar way (sacrificing themselves for them) and they both cope with their grief through rage, often misplaced… katara and zuko have a deep & profound friendship, but if they were to be in a relationship, they would only bring out the absolute worst in each other thru enabling each other’s rage and emotion-driven decision making.”

(3) Z/uk/ka: this pairing makes for a healthy and wholesome relationship because throughout the boiling rock, we see that “sokka and zuko make an excellent team, as they balance each other perfectly. sokka thinks big picture, and plans ahead, but zuko will charge into situations.” They inspire each other, they trust each other unconditionally, they become more open and supportive of each other, they share a lot of common interests and narrative parallels, and in general, just make each other happy (which could work both platonically and romantically).

As for my response: I’m sure many of you are expecting me to start to save the “best for last.” That assumption would be incorrect because I actually have the least to say about point 3.

I agree that Z/uk/ka can be a good relationship. Their dynamic is funny, playful, supportive, etc. etc. (there are so many positive adjectives I could use to describe their dynamic, the list could go on forever). And they could make a great couple.

…

What, did you expect more from me? That’s it, I’m done.

I’m not here to attack Z/uk/ka as a ship, because while I can never actively ship it (I’m a sad, narrow-minded exclusive shipper, always had been and always will be) I can objectively appreciate them as one. It’s points 1 and 2 I’m more concerned about.

Now, since we’ve already begun working backward, I’ll begin my critiques on point 2: I could write extensively about the parallels between Zuko and Katara, including but not limited to shared pain and a few shared flaws - and just a few, because their weaknesses diverge in many important places. However, since I’m trying to write as objectively as possible and since Zuko-Katara parallels have already been discussed to death, my analysis will focus elsewhere.

However, something from comradekatara’s post that I would first like to address is this-

[Zuko and Katara] both cope with their grief through rage, often misplaced. in the southern raiders, they both act deeply insensitively towards sokka by acting as if his grief over his mother’s death is somehow less valid simply because he is a lot quieter in his coping mechanisms and doesn’t project his rage & guilt onto everyone else.

- or rather, the idea that Zuko and Katara’s shared pain causes them to act insensitively towards Sokka (and though the post does not mention it, Aang as well).

(Note: these points have already been covered by countless metas before mine, so you can skip/skim this section to read a newer argument in the next section.)

Even ignoring the fact that the Southern Raiders had many out of character moments, Katara’s insensitivity towards Sokka is first and foremost a reaction against his insensitivity towards her.

_____

Dialogue from Season 3, Episode 16 “The Southern Raiders”:

Aang: Um ... and what exactly do you think this will accomplish?

Katara: [Shakes her head in dismay.] Ugh, I knew you wouldn't understand. [Begins to walk away.]

Aang: Wait! Stop! I do understand. You're feeling unbelievable pain and rage. How do you think I felt about the sandbenders when they stole Appa? How do you think I felt about the Fire Nation when I found out what happened to my people?

Zuko: She needs this, Aang. This is about getting closure and justice.

Aang: I don't think so. I think it's about getting revenge.

Katara: [Angrily.] Fine, maybe it is! Maybe that's what I need! Maybe that's what he deserves!

Aang: Katara, you sound like Jet.

Katara: It's not the same! Jet attacked the innocent. This man, he's a monster.

Sokka: Katara, she was my mother, too, but I think Aang might be right.

Katara: Then you didn't love her the way I did!

Sokka: [Hurt] Katara!

_____

While I believe that Aang’s principles of forgiveness are morally sound, the way he pushes his beliefs onto Katara undermines much of her grief. At first, Aang tries to relate to Katara’s experiences by comparing them to his own, but there is a forceful connotation to his dialogue that suggests that Aang considers himself to be the moral authority compared to Katara. Hence, Aang judges Katara (“I think it’s about getting revenge”) without trying to reach out and understand her, forgoing the empathetic common ground in favor of taking on the moral high ground.

Thus, when Sokka tells Katara, “she was my mother, too, but I think Aang might be right,” Sokka is not only saying that Katara should choose forgiveness, he is implying that Aang is the ultimate moral authority on this matter and that Katara should accept that. Moreover, similarly to Aang, Sokka’s opening line, “she was my mother, too,” had the potential to establish common ground between himself and Katara, but the added “but…” places Sokka on the moral high ground against her instead. Of course, when we remember that just two lines ago Aang equates Katara to Jet, Sokka agreeing with Aang seems even more thoughtless and unsympathetic.

So when Katara lashes out against Sokka, ostensibly “acting as if his grief over his mother’s death is somehow less valid simply because he is a lot quieter in his coping mechanisms and doesn’t project his rage & guilt onto everyone else,” it is important to note that Sokka undermines Katara’s louder, more visible way of grieving as well (though that discounts that for most of the show, Katara only uses her grief over her mother’s death to sympathize with others).

Moreover, Katara’s line, “then you didn't love her the way I did!” is hurtful, yes, but it is not necessarily equivalent to “you didn’t love her as much as I did.” Katara’s love for her mother is different from Sokka’s because her pain over her death is different -- after Kya’s passing, Katara had to carry the emotional burden of becoming a pseudo-mother to Sokka (see Sokka and Toph’s conversation in “The Runaway”), a burden that did not cease after she joined the GAang (see the entirety of “The Desert”). To Katara, Kya was not only her mother, but the representation of the childhood she lost and the sacrifice made to protect her life. Sokka simply does not have that same relationship with Kya.

I do not mean to say that Sokka and Aang unfairly taking on the moral authority in this situation means that this authority instead belongs to Katara (and Zuko) - “The Southern Raiders” is filled with questionable moments from all parties involved. However, TSR is an episode that delves into Katara (and Zuko)’s relationship with a mother’s sacrifice, so how Zuko and Katara respond to this specific trauma from their past does not dictate how they respond to painful circumstances in the present/future. Let’s see how this is true.

Sozin’s Comet, Part 1: The Phoenix King

No doubt Zuko and Katara felt some form of frustration upon Aang’s disappearance, so let’s see how they “[enabled] each other’s rage and emotion-driven decision making”:

Here, Katara and Zuko make a decision together that turns out to be calm, rational, and not at all emotionally-driven despite their mutual frustration and worry towards Aang.

Sozin’s Comet, Part 2: The Old Masters

Zuko holds immense pain and self-loathing over betraying Iroh, yet Zuko and Katara’s conversation does not enable/exacerbate negativity from any party involved (since Zuko often translates his grief into anger, and Katara was evidently angry at Zuko’s betrayal). Instead, their conversation is open, encouraging, and constructive.

(Note: this is where the review of points made by previous metas ends.)

Hence, to say that “[Zuko and Katara] would only bring out the absolute worst in each other [through] enabling each other’s rage and emotion-driven decision making” - when we are given in-canon examples of the opposite being true - would be a sweeping and inaccurate generalization.

But for the sake of argument let’s say that, hypothetically, Zuko and Katara’s relationship would fail because they only bring out the worst in each other. And here’s where the argument falls apart for me - Is the argument here that Zuko and Katara have an incredibly meaningful friendship yet somehow this “friendship” causes them to enable each other, thus encouraging each other’s worst flaws and regressing each other’s growth? Is a healthy friendship - much less a “deep and profound” one - not one where two individuals can learn from each other in positive ways and balance each other’s shortcomings?

Or is it something different we’re saying here? Are we saying that two individuals can have a “deep and profound” friendship and yet the moment their relationship shifts from platonic to romantic, they are terrible for each other?

While many significant platonic bonds are stunted when they become romantic, I still believe it to be common sense that some of the best romantic relationships stem from a platonic foundation. But since much of “common sense” on the internet sees that “sense” is nonsensical and “common” is a nicer way to refer to mob mentality, I have done my research to show how Zuko and Katara could have been an excellent case of a friends-to-lovers relationship.

An excerpt from my meta, “Research Shows that Zutara Would Have Been the Ideal Friends to Lovers Dynamic.” (give it a read if you want to see references to relationship-research and an overanalysis on diction/tone)

The reason why Zutara is framed as a “toxic and unhealthy” relationship is that their romance would be a classic example of the enemies-to-lovers trope, a trope which modern media has not been particularly kind to. However, when executed correctly, enemies-to-lovers can produce a healthy and loving relationship, frequently relying on friendship as an intermediate between the “enemy” and “lover” stages in the most well-executed versions of this trope. Meanwhile, the trope of friends-to-lovers is just as popular as enemies-to-lovers, though the specific dynamic required between two individuals to achieve this transition is not well-known. Recognizing this, Laura K. Guerrero and Paul A. Mongeau, both of whom are involved in relationship-related research as professors at Arizona State University, wrote a research paper on how friendships may transition into romantic relationships…

According to Guerrero and Mongeau, “...scholars have argued that intimacy is located in different types of interactions, ranging from sexual activity and physical contact to warm, cozy interactions that can occur between friends, family members, and lovers…” Guerrero and Mongeau then reference a relationship model where the initial stages (i.e. perceiving similarities, achieving rapport, and inducing self-disclosure) reflect platonic/romantic intimacy through communication while the latter stages (i.e. role-taking, achieving interpersonal role fit, and achieving dyadic crystallization) often see both individuals as achieving a higher level of intimacy that involves more self-awareness.

In the rest of my research-based meta I demonstrate how Zuko and Katara’s platonic interactions in the show fit into the stages of communicative intimacy (i.e. perceiving similarities, achieving rapport, and inducing self-disclosure) that Guerrero and Mongeau describe as being mutual between friendships and romances. As such, crossing the line between friends and more-than-friends most likely would not cause a dramatic shift in the Zutara dynamic since much of Zuko and Katara’s platonic intimacy easily translates into romantic intimacy. I’ll end off with another excerpt from my meta.

Excerpt from “Research Shows that Zutara Would Have Been the Ideal Friends to Lovers Dynamic.”

“...it would be remiss to simply dismiss the Zutara dynamic as one that would instantly become toxic should they pursue a romantic relationship.”

With that little thought in mind, let’s move onto point 3: an exploration of friendship, romance, and why toxicity is not exclusive to the latter.

Let’s start with what I agree with:

“The entire foundation of mai and zuko’s relationship was built on how miserable they were together, and how they would just sit there and hate the world together— letting their misery fester as they enabled each other’s depression...”

I’m not sure how necessary it is for me to elaborate on this point given that it’s already been accepted by comradekatara and perhaps 60,000+ other users on Tumblr (a gross exaggeration but this remains unimportant), but in her essay, “Zuko, Mai, and the Nature of True Intimacy,” Araeph contributes more nuance to the concept of Ma/iko and mutual misery, stating that,

Unfortunately for [Zuko and Mai’s] relationship, Mai is and will always be a pessimist—a character trait, not a character flaw, in her. The key difference lies in how Mai and Zuko use their negative feelings. When Zuko sinks into negativity, he gives up on any actions that will materially change his world for the better; Mai, on the other hand, can remain negative even at the height of her character development, and it does not impede her ability to act.

So while Mai enables Zuko’s depression, Zuko does not necessarily do the same for Mai. Nonetheless, throughout their relationship for the first half of season 3, neither of them communicate constructively or push each other to grow as people.

This may be the third disclaimer I’m making, but I first want to say I have nothing against Mai. However, I do have something against the idea that “[Mai and Zuko] would work so well as friends if they weren’t trying to make their dumpster fire of a relationship work.”

Their relationship is a dumpster fire, yes, but will the flames cease simply if the amount of intimacy in the relationship changes?

comradekatara state themselves that their entire romantic relationship is quite depressing - they are only able to connect through empty physical intimacy and mutual hatred of the world. Without that, there is little left for them to bond over. Once Zuko overcomes his conflicting morality and inaction from the first half of season 3, he becomes someone who is strongly guided by his principles and beliefs. However, for the entirety of the series, Mai is characterized by her moral apathy. To cite from Araeph again,

It is moral intimacy that is the last and worst omission for Mai and Zuko… Zuko’s struggle to find and follow his principles is the most central aspect of his character, yet it is a struggle Mai neither understands nor respects…

Lack of moral intimacy (not sharing the same core beliefs) is something that applies to both platonic and romantic bonds. Thus, just as transitioning from a meaningful friendship to a romance does not inherently create toxicity in a relationship, switching from a romance that exacerbates one (or both, depending on how you interpret it) party’s misery does not necessarily erase the preexisting negativity in a relationship - perhaps some of it may subside, sure, but as long both parties continue to fail at communicating and understanding each other, even their friendship seems bleak at best. In this case, Mai and Zuko may work well as conditional friends, or in other words, friends who are only friends when they have something to mutually be miserable over. And this tiptoes the line of speculation, but they could be a formidable political team. But unless the Ma/iko dynamic shifts drastically in the lovers-to-friends transition, I’m not sure if there’s much potential in a friendship between them.

In conclusion, there is a lot I don’t agree with from comradekatara’s post, but if there’s one takeaway I want to impart onto everyone who’s read this far, it’s this: crossing and uncrossing the line between platonic and romantic bonds is not always a transformative experience for the relationship, and the nature of human relationships is a complex spectrum -- not a light switch that can only be set between healthy and unhealthy.

Thank you all for reading!

#atla #atla meta #my bated breath analyzes #this is more pro-zukka than anti-zukka #but I will include neither in my tags #zutara #anti maiko #once again this is a critique #not a post meant to tear anyone or their views down #my bated breath's posts

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katara-deserved-way-better · 3 years

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I apologize if I could find this elsewhere but what did c*mradekatara do? Why are they homophobic? I follow them but am unaware of problematic behaviour. I ask because I would like to follow you, thank u in adv

comradekatara is not homophobic as far as i know (their previous url was lesbians4sokka, so unless they have some internalized homophobia going on, I very much doubt it [then again they did tear down Katara in favor of Z.ukka so. no thanks]), they were the ones who spearheaded/made the ‘homophobic Katara’ headcanon very popular, especially in Zu.kka shipping circles (especially the new wave of shippers, just...sigh)

Now, i wouldn’t have a problem if they (I believe the account is run by two people) apologized, but rather than apologizing, they said ‘oh, we didn’t mean for it to get popular!’ and then continued to perpetuate the headcanon (and it’s not going to surprise me if you told me comradekatara were run by grown women. i don’t like making sweeping generalizations, but the z.ukka fandom has a big problem with their adults not taking responsibility for anything). visibilityofcolor has talked about how harmful the ‘homophobic katara’ meme is to WoC (and dark skinned WoC/indigenous girls and women in particular), while firelxdykatara has talked about how the ‘homophobic Katara’ meme is very much not in character in-universe or even makes sense.

anyways, as a Katara stan who hates the injection of homophobia in an Asian-Inuit based world where people move elements, I hated this headcanon when it started getting popular (that’s how I saw it, I didn’t even know they existed until homophobic katara started popping up all over my dash) and I saw it particularly among the new wave of Z.ukka shippers.

also the comics are trash but there is a standalone comic where Book 2 Gaang meets a girl who has two dads and Katara is nothing but supportive and is even happy for the couple. so, like some garbage headcanons, i’m very glad that it’s partially canon that Katara is a supportive person (like she always is, someone please get her a chiropractor because she carried this entire show and her team)

anyways, no need to apologize about it, some of these things might not be known because comradekatara got popular at the start of the pandemic/in the summer (idk the exact time, but it was about a year ago)

#osprey answers #anti zukka fandom #zukka fandom salt #katara deserved better from the fandom #she saved B2's Gaangs' asses in the desert single-handedly show some respect #without her your precious sokka and aang would've died #also i can't speak about the inuit but asia largely didn't care about queer relationships so long as it didn't get in the way of family #and also. atla was written by european americans for an american audience during the 2000s so ofc the world's not going to be #perfectly egalitarian or fitting for the cultures they were based off of #but why insert homophobia into a world where people throw elements around. like why.

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firelxdykatara · 4 years

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what the fuck is with the homophobic katara meme?? it has zero basis in anything

You can thank lesbians4sokka for that, tbh. (Whatever, I’m too irritated to be vague, they know what the fuck they did and they don’t care and it still pisses me off.) I don’t know if they 100% originated it, but I do know they took it, ran with it, and popularized it, and it’s exceptionally prominent in zukka circles, gee I wonder why, and I just... I hate it so much????

Like, leaving aside the fact that Katara is bi and I will fight and die for her honor as a fellow bi woman, it has absolutely zero basis in fact. Some of the ‘evidence’ they use is like, ‘Katara was mean to Toph! Toph can be seen as vaguely GNC! Ergo Katara was mean to Toph because she’s GNC!’ which is complete bullshit. Katara was ‘mean’ to Toph because, especially at first, Toph was a lazy, entitled little shitheel--I say that with love, but Katara was absolutely valid in getting pissed at her and carrying that annoyance around because Toph was an entitled little rich girl who acted like she was too good to so much as do chores and help around the camp and like, given what Katara already had to put up with from Sokka and Aang, of course she’d get pissed off!!!!! And then they’ll pull out examples of Katara making fun of Sokka’s own sexism (her ‘you’re the one whose bag matches his belt’ comment was in response to Sokka telling Aang not to answer to Twinkletoes because ‘it’s not manly’, what was that about the people who claim Sokka’s ‘sexism’ was over and done with after the Kyoshi Island episode in book 1?????) as examples of her sticking rigidly to gender roles and use that as ‘evidence’ for why she’d be homophobic and like.... no????

Katara is the one who took a fucking sledgehammer to the North’s patriarchy in the form of challenging a fucking master to a duel she knew she couldn’t win because she was fucking pissed at his sexist attitude, Sokka is the one who had to get his ass beat by a bunch of girls before he could admit they were allowed to be capable warriors, and yet y’all are gonna come for her and act like she’s the only one in the gaang who’d be Super Strict about gender roles and would be homophobic against Zuko and her brother (nevermind that her daughter, in canon, is queer)??? Really????

Hard fucking pass, tbh. Katara deserves better, and I’m eternally pissed about how popular that stupid fucking ‘headcanon’ is. It makes no sense. Shut the fuck up forever, thanks. (Not you, anon, obviously--just the people who keep peddling that stupid ‘joke’ like it isn’t played out and also steeped in racism and misogyny.)

#atla #katara #atla fandom salt #salt for ts #anyway i'm steamed and i get more steamed every time i remember that hc exists #asked #Anonymous

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cavehags · 4 years

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i realize this will probably bring up old drama so you might not want to answer it. but do you ever regret, however on purpose or on accident, bringing all that unnecesary hate towards Katara? i'm really sad and dissapointed tbh. i'm a woman of color and katara was so important to me growing up. my favorite animated woman ever. and then this resurgence comes and theres so, so much unnecesary hatred for her and everyone ignoring everything that makes her a good character.

(2/3) 2- and you know, i expected this from the male side of the fandom. they were misogynistic to her and the others even back then so i would expect it to be even worse with how internet culture is more mysogistic now that ever. and i wasnt wrong. male atla fans had some truly horrible takes and views that just came across as racism and misogyny. but, i expected these circles to be better. to be a safe space for us woc who love this character. but i found the same weird hatred for her.

(3/3) 3-i just, i cant believe i feel less welcome now that i did even back then. and back then i didnt even paricipate really. but at least i could enjoy fandom content without stumbling into misogyny and racism every other post. also sorry for sending this to your personal blog b i just wanted to let you know you controbuted to that too even if it wasnt your intention. at least you realized that and arent contributing to it anymore right? cause honestly the hate has only gotten worse not less.

hey anon. thanks for asking this question, because i hadn’t addressed this topic previously and this gave me an opportunity to do so.

no, i don’t regret publicly interpreting a character whom i love through a nuanced and human lens. and i don’t regret combating the one-dimensional interpretation of this character, which posits that she’s merely an vaguely defined object of attraction for some boy or another, and a singularly gentle, mature, maternal figure whose sole purpose in life is to nurture others. those interpretations suck. they rob her of the humanity and complexity that make her character unique and they stem from misogynistic tropes that reduce women to the services they can provide to men. the thing in the world that matters most to me is fighting misogyny, and this trend to diminish a proud and powerful and angry teenage girl by exaggerating only her most socially acceptable traits is misogyny.

unlike you, i did not grow up watching avatar: the last airbender. the shows i watched growing up did not have a lot of girls who felt real to me. the girls i saw on tv growing up were simple. they were the main characters’ crushes. they were simple, desirable, usually sweet and loving, and not much else. if they had a flaw, it was that they were, at best, “awkward.” whatever that means. or if they were the protagonists, which was rare, they were nice enough and tried to do the right thing, but they never had strong feelings like resentment and anger. they weren’t allowed to be unfeminine which meant they weren’t allowed to be bitter, angry or in any way flawed. they didn’t look like the version of girlhood i knew to be true for me personally, which included a lot of anger and frustration and powerlessness.

that crappy representation left me with internalized misogyny that chased me for longer than i’d like to admit. i did not learn to think of girls as humans who could be as interesting and flawed and messy as the boys were. i did not value myself as a girl, and later a woman, because i thought the best thing a girl could be was... bland. boring. pretty, but empty. passionless.

it would have meant the world to me to see a character like katara.

because katara is angry. she has every right to be: she’s had so much stolen from her, including her mother, her people, and her childhood. katara has a short fuse. she yells. she snaps. she fucks up. sometimes she makes mean jokes! i never saw a single one of those dreamily perfect cartoon love interests make mean jokes when i was a kid. she is extremely idealistic--it’s her defining character trait--but we see the bad side of that as well as the good. we see that her need to help others leads her to act rashly, to get herself into danger, to put others in danger too.

and she has her very own arc. it’s not about her love for another person, either (what a snooze of a storyline); it’s about growing up and learning to break down some of that stubborn black-and-white thinking that we all indulge in as children. it’s a true coming-of-age arc and it belongs to a fourteen-year-old girl.

when i, to use a phrase i find crass, “entered the fandom,” i quickly realized that other fans’ perceptions of katara did not line up with the things i valued most about her. other fans seemed to valorize her most socially acceptable feminine qualities: her generosity, her kindness, her dedication to helping others. and of course i love those parts of her--i love everything about her--but what is really remarkable about avatar: the last airbender is that katara’s many important virtues are also counterbalanced by equally significant flaws. a good character has flaws. katara is a good character, and a deviation from the characters who made up my formative media landscape, because she has flaws. her temper, her idealism, her stubbornness--these are flaws. flaws make her seem real and human and challenge the mainstream sentiment that girls are not real or human.

it simply did not occur to me that celebrating these aspects of katara that make her a realistic and well-written teenage girl would spark ire from other adult fans. it absolutely did not occur to me that i would then be blamed for somehow causing misogynistic interpretations of this character, particularly given that misogynistic interpretations of this character are the very thing i sought to correct when i began to blog about this television show.

i’m told there are “fans” on instagram and tiktok who think katara is whiny, annoying, and overly preoccupied with her trauma. i do not use instagram or tiktok, so i wouldn’t know, but i’ll take your word for it. respectfully, however, they didn’t get that from me. misogynistic takes on katara have existed since before i came along. i have never, ever called katara whiny. and seeing as i have been treating my own PTSD in therapy for nine years, you can safely conclude that i don’t think anyone, katara included, is overly preoccupied with their trauma. that’s not a thing. do i think she’s annoying? of course not! as a character, she’s a delight. does she sometimes find real joy in aggravating her brother and her friends? yes, because she’s 14. i, an adult, am not annoyed by her. sokka and toph often are, because that is katara’s goal and katara always succeeds in her goals. she’s not “annoying.”

if there are “fans” who are indeed following lesbians4sokka and somehow misreading every single post and interpreting them to mean that we hate katara and they should too, i don’t really know what you want me to do about that. l4s has over ten thousand followers and we have already posted so many essays disavowing katara hate. our feminist and antiracist objectives in running the blog are literally pinned with the headline “please read.”

furthermore, you cannot reasonably expect my co-blogger and me to control the way our words will be received. we should not have to, and are not going to, add a disclaimer to every post saying that when we critique or make jokes about a teenage girl we are doing so through a feminist lens. our url is lesbians4sokka, and we are clearly women. if that alone doesn’t make it obvious, then refer back to that pinned post.

it is indescribably frustrating, and really goddamn depressing as well, that people are so comfortable with the misogynistic binary of Perfect Good Women and Flawed Wicked Bitches that they perceive any discussion of a woman’s flaws to be necessarily relegating her to the latter camp. if that is how you (a generic you) perceive women, then i’m sorry, but you’ve internalized sexism that i cannot cure you of. and it’s unjust to expect my friend and me to write for the lowest common denominator of readers who have not yet had their own feminist awakenings. we do not write picture books for babies. we write for ourselves, and with the expectation that our readers can think critically. reading media through a feminist lens is my primary interest; i have no intention of excising that angle from my writing.

as i go through my life, i am going to embrace the flaws of girls and women because not enough people do. as long as the dominant narratives surrounding women are “good and perfect” and “unlovable wh*re,” you’ll find me highlighting flawed, realistic, righteously angry women in the margins. and for what it’s worth, it’s not just katara. i champion depictions of angry girls in all sorts of media. that’s sort of my whole thing. my favorite movies are part of the angry girl cinematic universe: thoroughbreds, jennifer’s body, hard candy, jojo rabbit, et cetera. on tv, in addition to katara, you’ll find me celebrating tuca and bertie, poppy from mythic quest, tulip and lake from infinity train, korra, and more. i adore all these women and see myself in them. i hope you find this suitably persuasive to establish that i have sufficient Feminist Cred, according to your standards, to observe and write about these very flawed and human fictional women.

what i’m saying is this: i decline to take responsibility for the misogynistic discourse orbiting a children’s cartoon. as someone who writes about that series from a perspective that seeks to add humanity and nuance to the reductive, one-dimensional, overwhelmingly sexist writing that already exists, i am pretty taken aback that i am the one being blamed for the very problem i sought to address. except not that taken aback because i am a woman online, haha! and this is always how it goes for us.

finally, i think it sucks that you’ve chosen to blame me for a problem that begins and ends with the patriarchy. i can’t control the way this response will be perceived, just like how i can’t control the way anything will be perceived because i am just one human woman, but i do hope you choose to be reflective, and consider why you’ve chosen this avenue to assign blame.

#anyway! this answer is too long and it's undignified to answer ''fandom drama'' queries on le blog #but here we are in 2020

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