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rockalillygirl · 9 months

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Mamma mia here we go again…

So I have more thoughts because apparently there’s no bottom to the murderbot mindhole I’ve fallen down.

(Spoiler warning- minor stuff from several of the books, pls check tags etc.)

I’ve been reading a lot of things recently exploring Murderbot as an unreliable narrator, which I think is a cool result of System Collapse (because we all know our beloved MB is going through it in this one). There’s also been some interesting related discussion of MB’s distrust of and sometimes biased assessment/treatment of other constructs and bots.

And I’ve been reading a lot about CombatUnits! And I want to talk about them!!

Main thoughts can be summarized as follows:

We don’t see a lot about CombatUnits in the books, and I think what we do see from MB’s pov encourages the reader to view them as less sympathetic than other constructs.

I’m very skeptical of this portrayal for reasons.

The existence of CombatUnits makes me fucking sad and I have a lot of feelings about them!

I got introduced to the idea of MB as an unreliable narrator in a post by onironic It analyzes how in SC, MB seems to distrust Three to a somewhat unreasonable degree, and how it sometimes infantilizes Three or treats it the way human clients have treated it in the past. The post is Amazing and goes into way more detail, so pls go read it (link below):

https://www.tumblr.com/onironic/736245031246135296?source=share

So these ideas were floating around in my brain when I read an article Martha Wells recently published in f(r)iction magazine titled “Bodily Autonomy in the Murderbot Diaries”. I’ll link the article here:

(Rn the only way to access the article is to subscribe to the magazine or buy an e-copy of the specific issue which is $12)

In the article, Wells states that MB displaced its fear of being forced to have sex with humans onto the ComfortUnit in Artificial Condition. I think it’s reasonable to assume that MB also does this with other constructs. With Three, I think it’s more that MB is afraid if what it knows Three is capable of, or (as onironic suggests in their post and I agree with) some jealousy that Three seems more like what humans want/expect a rogue SecUnit to be.

But I want to explore how this can be applied to CombatUnits, specifically.

We don’t learn a lot about them in the books. One appears for a single scene in Exit Strategy, and that’s it. What little else we know comes from MB’s thoughts on them sprinkled throughout the series. To my knowledge, no other character even mentions them (which raises interesting questions about how widely-known their existence is outside of high-level corporate military circles).

When MB does talk about CombatUnits in the early books, it’s as a kind of boogeyman figure (the real “murderbots” that even Murderbot is afraid of). And then when one does show up in ES, it’s fucking terrifying! There’s a collective “oh shit” moment as both MB and the reader realize what it’s up against. Very quickly what we expect to be a normal battle turns into MB running for its life, desperately throwing up hacks as the CombatUnit slices through them just as fast. We and MB know that it wouldn’t have survived the encounter if its humans hadn’t helped it escape. So the CombatUnit really feels like a cut above the other enemies in the series.

And what struck me reading that scene was how the CombatUnit acts like the caricature of an “evil robot” that MB has taught us to question. It seems single-mindedly focused on violence and achieving its objective, and it speaks in what I’d call a “Terminator-esque” manner: telling MB to “Surrender” (like that’s ever worked) and responds to MB’s offer to hack its governor module with “I want to kill you” (ES, pp 99-100).

(Big tangent: Am I the only one who sees parallels between this and how Tlacey forces the ComfortUnit to speak to MB in AC? She makes it suggest they “kill all the humans” because that’s how she thinks constructs talk to each other (AC, pp 132-4). And MB picks up on it immediately. So why is that kind of talk inherently less suspicious coming from a CombatUnit than a ComfortUnit? My headcanon is that I’m not convinced the CombatUnit was speaking for itself. What if a human controller was making it say things they thought would be intimidating? Idk maybe I’ve been reading too many fics where CombatUnits are usually deployed with a human handler. There could be plenty of reasons why the CombatUnit would’ve talked like that. I’m just suspicious.)

(Also, disclaimer: I want to clarify before I go on that I firmly believe that even though MB seems to be afraid of CombatUnits and thinks they’re assholes, it would still advocate for them to have autonomy. I’m not trying to say that either MB or Wells sees CombatUnits as less worthy of personhood or freedom- because I feel the concept that “everything deserves autonomy” is very much at the heart of the series.)

So it’s clear from all of this that MB is scared of CombatUnits and distrusts them for a lot of reasons. I read another breathtaking post by @grammarpedant that gives a ton of examples of this throughout the books and has some great theories on why MB might feel this way. I’ll summarize the ones here that inspired me the most, but pls go read the original post for the full context:

https://www.tumblr.com/grammarpedant/703920247856562177?source=share

OP explains that SecUnits and CombatUnits are pretty much diametrically opposed because of their conflicting functions: Security safeguards humans, while Combat kills them. Of course these functions aren’t rigid- MB has implied that it’s been forced to be violent towards humans before, and I’m sure that extracting/guarding important assets could be a part of a CombatUnit's function. But it makes sense that MB would try to distance itself from being considered a CombatUnit, using its ideas about them to validate the parts of its own function that it likes (protecting people). OP gives what I think is the clearest example of this, which is the moment in Fugitive Telemetry when MB contrasts its plan to sneak aboard a hostile ship and rescue some refugees with what it calls a “CombatUnit” plan, which would presumably involve a lot more murder (FT, p 92).

This reminds me again of what Wells said in the f(r)iction article, that on some level MB is frightened by the idea that it could have been made a ComfortUnit (friction, p 44). I think the idea that it could’ve been a CombatUnit scares it too, and that’s why it keeps distinguishing itself and its function from them. But I think it’s important to point out, that in the above example from FT, even MB admits that the murder-y plan it contrasts with its own would be one made by humans for CombatUnits. So again we see that we just can’t know much about the authentic nature of CombatUnits, or any constructs with intact governor modules, because they don’t have freedom of expression. MB does suggest that CombatUnits may have some more autonomy when it comes to things like hacking and combat which are a part of their normal function. But how free can those choices be when the threat of the governor module still hangs over them?

I think it could be easy to fall into the trap of seeing CombatUnits as somehow more complicit in the systems of violence in the mbd universe. But I think that’s because we often make a false association between violence and empowerment, when even in our world that’s not always the case. But, critically, this can’t be the case for CombatUnits because they’re enslaved in the same way SecUnits and ComfortUnits are (though the intricacies are different).

There was another moment in the f(r)iction article that I found really chilling. Wells states that there’s a correlation between SecUnits that are forced to kill humans and ones that go rogue (friction, p 45). It’s a disturbing thought on its own, but I couldn’t help wondering then how many CombatUnits try to hack their governor modules? And what horrible lengths would humans go to to stop them? I refuse to believe that a CombatUnit’s core programming would make it less effected by the harm its forced to perpetrate. That might be because I’m very anti-deterministic on all fronts, but I just don’t buy it.

I’m not entirely sure why I feel so strongly about this. Of course, I find the situation of all constructs in mbd deeply upsetting. But the more I think about CombatUnits, the more heartbreaking their existence seems to me. There’s a very poignant moment in AC when MB compares ART’s function to its own to explain why there are things it doesn’t like about being a SecUnit (AC, p 33). In that scene, MB is able to identify some parts of its function that it does like, but I have a hard time believing a CombatUnit would be able to do the same. I’m not trying to say that SecUnits have it better (they don’t) (the situation of each type of construct is horrible in it’s own unique way). It’s just that I find the idea of construct made only for violence and killing really fucking depressing. I can’t even begin to imagine the horror of their day-to-day existence.

@grammarpedant made another point in their post that I think raises a TON of important questions not only about CombatUnits, but about how to approach the idea of “function” when it comes to machine intelligence in general. They explain that, in a perfect version of the mbd universe, there wouldn’t be an obvious place for CombatUnits the way there could be for SecUnits and ComfortUnits who wanted to retain their original functions. A better world would inherently be a less violent one, so where does that leave CombatUnits? Would they abandon their function entirely, or would they find a way to change it into something new?

I’ve been having a lot of fun imagining what a free CombatUnit would be like. But in some ways it’s been more difficult than I expected. I’ve heard Wells say in multiple interviews that one of her goals in writing Murderbot was to challenge people to empathize with someone they normally wouldn’t, and I find CombatUnits challenging in exactly that way. Sometimes I wonder if I would’ve felt differently about these books if MB had been a CombatUnit instead of a SecUnit. Would I have felt such an immediate connection to MB if its primary function before hacking its governor module had been killing humans, or if it didn’t have relatable hobbies like watching media? Or if it didn’t have a human face for the explicit purpose of making people like me more comfortable? I’m not sure that I would have.

Reading SC has got me interested in exploring the types of people that humans (or even MB itself) would struggle to accept. So CombatUnits are one of these and possible alien-intelligences are another. All this is merely a small sampling of the thoughts that have been swirling around in my brain-soup! So if anyone is interested in watching me fumble my way through these concepts in more detail, I may be posting “something” in the very near future!

Would really appreciate anyone else’s thoughts about all of THIS^^^^ It’s been my obsession over the holidays and helping me cope with family stress and flying anxiety.

#murderbot diaries #murderbot meta #artificial condition #exit strategy #fugitive telemetry #system collapse #murderbot spoilers #combat unit #FEELINGS #i blink and then it's 2000 words later #jesus christ

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separatist-apologist · 1 year

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I can’t get over how great LIBTM is, it’s a really refreshing take on these two incredibly traumatised characters. Part of the reason I didn’t really fuck w Gwynriel until you started writing it was bc I found it frustrating how Azriel was so often softened and made out to be a little sweetie, while Gwyn was reduced to like cutesy silliness. Which is totally fine ofc just not how I personally perceive those characters! so the way you are exploring their darkness and light is just 🤌 mamma mia

We keep joking in the group chat that LIBTM that Azriel is Azriel (MB's Version) or Azriel's Personality (MBs Version) (From the Vault). I am enjoying it a lot more than I thought I would. It's become my new favorite. I like this dynamic so much.

#im glad you like it tooooooo #i was so afraid people wouldnt like how i characterize him

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magicmitch-eats · 2 months

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solisaence · 11 months

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I hate how forgetful I am; here’s the day we went for Mamma Mia at MBS

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shadeedee · 1 year

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Jafar takes over the palace - funny twist on the 1992 final battle scene mixed with an MBS/ASOUE/ALADDIN crossover.. *SOME ADULT CONTENT*

Jasmine scowled as Jafar bit into an apple from a bowl of fruit she was carrying. “It pains me to see you reduced to this, Jasmine,” he said, coolly. Sunny Baudelaire was locked in a cage with Rajah. Violet and Klaus were forced to sweep the floors of the throne room. Constance, Reynie, Kate and Sticky were doing other horrible chores. Violet looked at Jafar, terrified. He was no Count Olaf. He was worse. He was a sorcerer. Little did everyone know, Sunny had her own plan on how to tame him. When he turned into a snake, the baby crawled over to him, babbling. “What is that kid doing!? She’ll be snake chow!” Genie cried. Sunny began tickling the cobra’s belly and playfully rolling about in his coils. Jafar couldn’t help but laugh. He lowered his head and began wrapping himself around the child, cackling with delight. Aladdin couldn’t believe it. Violet and Klaus smiled, watching their sister. Sunny let out a playful squeal and babbled. “Oh aren’t you ssssssweet,” Jafar hissed, laughing playfully. “Snakey have apple?” Sunny asked, and she shoved a bunch of apples into the snake’s mouth. He began to gag. Bits of apple fell out. Sunny continued shoving apples into the cobra’s mouth. Constance screwed up her face. The other kids tried not to laugh. The cobra’s stomach was bulging. Soon it was huge. “Ooooh my aching tummy. Too much applessssss. Too much,” Jafar said, moaning. Sunny held up another apple. The snake covered his mouth as if to stop something coming out. “Whoa. I think he’s gonna barf,” said Reynie. “He’s gonna blow!” Genie said. Jafar began grunting and moaning, slithering around in discomfort. Suddenly, the cobra let out a giant, enormous fart. He sighed with relief loudly, and wriggled around slightly. Everyone gasped and held their noses. “Ohhhhh gross!” the children said together. “Phew! Mamma Mia! I think mister cobra needs a diaper change!” Genie said. Aladdin coughed, trying not to gag. Jasmine was wide eyed and silent, in disgust. “Uh oh,” Sunny said, in her little voice. She crawled away, fast. The smell was horrible. The evil sorcerer chuckled. “Mmmm. A perfume smell. And the name? Crisp apple,” he said. Iago burst out laughing and flapped about. Abu scowled. “I heard it’s mating season for snakes,” Genie said, nervously. The cobra slithered over to an Arabian cushion and began humping it, vigorously. He dug his fangs into it as he did so and closed his eyes, in pleasure. Mr Benedict covered the children’s eyes. Sunny babbled as if to say, what’s that snake doing? Mr Benedict struggled to answer. “He’s, uh, he’s angry at it. He doesn’t like the colour,” he said. Suddenly, a big spurt of white sticky substance shot onto the cushion. Luckily the children didn’t see that. The cobra chuckled with pleasure and wrapped himself around it. “On a scale of one to ten that was an eleven,” Iago said, cackling.

#jafar aladdin #crossover #asoue #mbs

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