#mike hopper contrasts

[gayofthefae]

Yes also chest vs shoulder (which is also a height thing tbf). More intimate for sure.

streets are saying this is the script of el and hopper reuniting...

if that's true then wow byler is endgame cause why does el feel alone after her boyfriend gave her a whole love confession LMAO WHAT

[starsarehere]

so y'all think s5 will win over S4 and steal the trophy of "gayest season ever" or?

[henry-fox-biggest-stan]

Oh mileven/lumax contrast, how I love you

Billy (a non-blood related family member of max) was against her dating Lucas, not out of any concern about her or overprotection, but because Lucas was black and he was racist. Billy is not shown to be in the right, and the audience does not empathize with him on this topic. Lucas and Max are portrayed as two mature kids/teenagers dealing with an unreasonable teenager/young adult. Billy is shown as a real threat, a real problem they have to deal with.

Hopper (a non-blood related family member of el) was against her dating mike, not out of any prejudice or dislike of him, but out of concern about her and overprotection (justified overprotection. The government is after her and she was also raised in a lab, so all her experiences with human relationships (being a daughter, a friend, a girlfriend) are experiences she’s having for the first time. She barely knows relationships, all she seen is what there’s on tv, she never even seen two real people in love. Plus her relationship with Mike, where they do nothing but make out and not talk is unhealthy). Hopper is shown as a reasonable adult, with a reasonable reason to not want Mike to date El. He’s a character you can empathize with. Mike and el are also shown without fault, they’re not doing anything wrong, but they’re also shown as childish, with Mike joking in serious moments (hopper about to talk with them and “oh oh, I think we’re in trouble”). Hopper is shown non threatening, even comedic.

Lumax breakup between s3 and s4. Not shown on screen, only the effect it has in the characters. Max is visibly depressed, dealing with bad mental (which includes OTHER issues aside from the breakup). She still cares about Lucas, we can see that as she’s listening to his game. Lucas tries to reach out, get her to talk to him, if not as a gf, as a friend, as someone he cares about.

Mileven breakup in s3. Explicitly shown on screen. Immediately el is happy, laughing with max and having a good time, reading magazines and singing. We don’t see any effects in her, and if there are, they’re positive effects. Mike is not in a rush to get el back, he’s shown “moping” on his basement, except he isn’t, he’s complaining, which is different. He’s not shown crying or upset or even affected. If anything he’s shocked, inconvenienced.

Max screaming for Lucas when she got vecna’d. It is Lucas who find the running up that hill cassette, saving her. When she falls, he catches her.

S2 el screaming for Mike while at the upside down, no one arrives. She gets out herself.

Max writes Lucas (and co) one singular letter. I bet you whatever you want than that letter is being safely guarded by Lucas.

El writes mike LOTS of letters, which he seems to dispose of very easily.

Max is not traditionally feminine (clothing, skateboard, video games, etc etc). Lucas (straight man) doesn’t care about this at all, and loves her with and without a dress.

S1 and s2 el was not traditionally feminine. Mike (gay man) was the most attracted to her then. As s3 (metaphor for puberty) went on (and s4) and el got more feminine (longer hair, physical body changing), things in their relationship got worse.

Max living in California and moving to Hawkins.

El living in Hawkins and moving to California.

Lucas falling in love with max regardless of the fact that Billy and many people frown upon interracial relationships in his 80s smalltown.

Mike “realizing his love for el” after Lucas practically told him he does like her, and immediately having Troy appear and make homophobic comments after. Aka, their relationship is technically approved by everyone.

Lucas and Max (and also Dustin and Suzie) singing together. They’re in synch.

Mike singing in s3 while they’re kissing, el explicitly tells the audience she doesn’t like it. They’re not in synch. After the break up, listening to max sing and dance around. She likes it. In s4, Will sings, same song lumax and duzie sang. Huh. Almost like singing shows you who you’re compatible with…

Lumax never said I love you. Max is not insecure, cause Lucas’ actions show he loves her.

El heard mike say he loved her in s3. In s4, she’s insecure about his love for her and hurt, cause his actions don’t show it and she needs verbal proof and reassurance AGAIN.

Mileven/Lumax kiss at the snowball. Only positive parallel between them I can remember. Max is wearing pants, el is wearing a dress. Max is truly having an amazing time, but is el truly having an amazing time?

[brionysea]

honestly, with the damage that hopper's secret keeping did to mike's (already not great) mental health FOR A FULL YEAR, mike hanging out in hopper's house and being kind of annoying for a couple months is a more than proportionate reaction. if anything that was mike being nice

[gayofthefae]

Absolutely. She loves Mike. She loves her brothers too. But all of them right now are a stepping stone for her to get back to Hawkins, her main goal.

And is knowing that her main goal is to save Max whereas it already existed as being to save Hawkins and her friends in a more general, indirect risk sense. She is focused on Max. She looks for Max. She talks about Max. Max is why she fights to get out of there more than anything.

She was inside NINA for most of her NINA plot so she couldn't talk about other things, but they made it work. In episode 8 when she was out of NINA but hadn't left yet they made it work. She didn't mention Mike, however, once. No little "I have to get back to him" when she first tried to leave. No inclusion of the Cali Crew in general in her communicated travel back to Hawkins. Nothing.

ACTUALLY. Max PARALLELS season 2 Mike, I just realized. They have been separated for almost a year. She is feeling unhappy in her current situation. She leaves to learn more about her past. She looks for her in the void and realizes she needs her help. She leaves and comes back, motivated by an episode focusing on her doing so.

Episode 8 is about El and her relationship to Papa but her goal through that is coming back to Max, making this

Much more satisfying than what they chose not to make this

In screentime, they have been separated for almost the same amount of time. But unlike Max, Mike has been out of sight, out of mind. Like her brothers, it doesn't mean she doesn't love him. But it is what it is...

He says he wants to get back to her and in the episode he does, right before, he reveals his struggles and insecurities about their relationship. El does not care and she is busy and not thinking about him. Yeah, I'm totally deeply invested...Honestly, I'm probably a little less invested than if they had both not been thinking about it. One person caring is just kind of a bummer you don't wanna be there for.

Tldr: Agree. Her reunion with Mike and her brothers (and Argyle) was never the point. It was a stepping stone to getting to Max. Her seeing Max was the climax of that. Not Mike telling her he loved her, especially when responding to him would take her away from Max. This conversation is not a climactic payoff moment interrupted. Because for her, it's just a loose end on her way back to Hawkins that she has to tie up so it isn't awkward since they're gonna continue to be around each other for a while.

if we were meant to interpret the pizza store scene as el trying to get back together with mike, there would have needed to be at least some buildup to that while she was at the nina project, whether that was shown through flashbacks or her talking about mike. compare that to 2x07, the lost sister episode where her going back to her friends has much more emotional payoff and we know that her headspace is focused on getting back to mike (after a year of not seeing him) and helping her friends (because of her visions in the void)

the only interpretation of her thoughts that we can make from her time at the nina project is after she gets her powers back and sees what max is planning to kill vecna. her concern is for max and her friends in hawkins alone.

this is why el’s “mike…i’ve…missed you” seems so hesitant and sad. there was not a single flashback to mike during her time at nina, likely because she was planning to break up with him in that very moment. this is probably one of the reasons she looked so upset during the monologue and afterwards.

[teambyler]

The Duffers deliberately wanted us to compare El and Mike's reunion with more intense and emotional ones

Will thought El might DIE and he might not see her again:

THAT was the reaction of seeing someone you were TERRIFIED of losing is still alive.

It came RIGHT AFTER El's reunion with MIke, which looks downright casual in comparison:

Part of it course is that Will is an amazingly empathetic and caring person who's more in touch with his emotions.

But El is supposed to be the love of MIKE'S life, and they're supposedly the show's supposedly "flagship ship" (as Milkvans like to call it)?

(And the framing of the shot with Will in the background, and Mike's conflicted expression to Will, all INTRUDE upon what's supposed to be an intense romantic moment.)

Don't get me wrong, Mike does look extremely happy and grateful she's alive. But shouldn't it have been MORE? Isn't Will's "Are you okay" instead of "I'm here" the thing to say? Have we really lowered our standards on the heights that romantic pairings can reach in fiction? Have we forgotten that True Love stories usually culminate when one is afraid of losing the other person forever? (like in this Byler post by @kidovna)

Just ONE EPISODE EARLIER, we had Joyce and Hopper's reunion, which had far more weight:

For the 2 reunions in the desert, it's as if the creators were telling us: "There's a contrast here and you should pay attention to it!"

-teambyler

[conflictofthemind]

Thoughts on "Escape from Camazotz"

Oppressive Suburbia, Conformity, and Season 5 Themes

I've long thought that a major focus of Season 5 will be the contrast between the families of The Wheelers and The Byers, and exploring how non-traditional family environments can be freeing vs the oppressive structure of the nuclear family.

In a Wrinkle In Time, Camazotz is a planet controlled by the big bad of the book, the "IT", who forces the citizens into a conformity that resembles American suburbia. All of the houses the same, the citizens the same, doing the same things at the same time without individual identity. Without anything different. Different means a lot of things, but with Stranger Things dropping different in reference to Will's identity and the presumable themes of this season, it will heavily codify as queerness and how it threatens the cisheterosexual family model.

Henry was raised in the 1950s, a decade still revered by conservatives for it's traditional family dynamics that supposedly were the peak of culture and happiness for all. That was all a lie, of course, and Henry knew so as he shows to Nancy and Eleven during his monologue. The second most conservative decade aside from the 1950s in American society is widely considered to be the 1980s.

The Creels will serve in parallel to The Wheelers; the worst example of what they could become and the damage that this type of family could do to a child that is different in any way. Notice how Vecna selectively shows Nancy visions of The Wheelers dying, but not anyone else she may consider family or friends (like Jonathan).

That is; unless they change their ways and come together as a healthy functioning family facing their traumas, The Wheelers will be toast.

Karen has been moved up to a main character role this season. Ted's actor says the father starts to show up more for Holly (hold that) and realizes he wants to act differently. Holly has been recast. Finn has said Mike goes on a much more personal journey this season, and steps up as a leader.

Oh, also: the catalyst for all of this is that Holly goes missing. The contrast will help show how the Byers (including El and Hopper here) were able to pull together and help solve Will's disappearance, versus how the Wheelers as a closed off nuclear family grapple with Holly's vanishing.

Each of the Byers is in some kind of a non-1950s conformist relationship, but particularly Will (not in one now but we all know he will be). I think El might represent, after she breaks up with Mike, the fear of the unmarried woman being satisfied without a husband. The above shot really emphasizes my point.

I predict that Will will end up coming out to his family rather early on, and we will see all of them immediately accept him with little surprise or push-back. Will is a visible gay man who comes from an open minded non traditional family (divorced, non-married, adoptive) that is willing to have honest conversations.

But this theme will place the most focus on the Wheelers. Mike is the main character of said family and this will particularly focus on his arc, and his acceptance of his queerness in the midst of suburban conformity.

He is not visible, he comes from a Reagan-supporting family who don't communicate with each other. He is not particularly close with his family like Will is. He pushes his feelings down and tries his damn hardest to be normal despite it all. His trauma hasn't really been addressed at all. He is falling back into his usual habits - the one thing he dared to do different (grow his hair long) has gone back to how it was.

It's not all doom and gloom though. This season above all will be a redemption arc of the American nuclear family, how they choose to escape their conformity and learn to be there for each other, thus overpowering Vecna. Not that the Wheelers are going to end this personally.

"Great, more hysteria. Just what we need". "It's the news, now indistinguishable from the tabloids".

[finalgirlwillbyers]

Why and in what context do you think Will is gonna drown

This is my instinct based on the BTS picture of a soaked Noah (he's been fully submerged in water) and Ross Duffers' inclusion of Lovers Lake in a photo dump (Weeks 5-6), coupled with the understanding that Stranger Things 5 is "like season one on steroids". The writers room, as seen in Stranger Things 4 and the Stranger Things 5 teaser, likes to reference character moments from prior seasons.

Sometimes this is a gimmick (see: Joyce with an axe in S1 vs. S5), and sometimes it holds significance for a character's arc (see: Dr. Brenner/Papa carrying El in S1 vs. S4). In El's case, the contrast emphasized El's maturation in physical and emotional sense. She's outgrown him, yet he still tries to enforce their former dynamic which is, ultimately, impossible. It's very cyclical, intentionally so.

Will's staged death in S1 is pivotal moment for those around him, not necessarily Will himself, since he's stuck in a pocket dimension. The audience witnesses how Will's "accident" devastates his loved ones and, later, realize the lengths the government will go in order to hide the truth (and keep him in the Upside Down). Will is, essentially, a pawn in a larger game of science-fiction intrigue. Collateral.

If the Duffers were to reference this moment, I'd imagine they'd focus on this theme of agency. Whether it's Will's choice (he's making rash decisions) or lack thereof (he's under the influence). Maybe Will winds up in a trance and wakes up in the water (a spin on Donnie Darko)? Maybe Will & Co. investigate Lovers Lake and something happens (he's dragged under like Steve in S4)? Maybe Will engages in risky behavior, because he feels like this is penance for the curse he's brought on everyone (aligning with Hopper and Max)?

Whatever the cause, he'd still end up in the water. But, unlike before, this time it's real for him. For the others, it's always felt viscerally real. And, to be frank, that's a huge part of the appeal. How the circumstances of Will's near death compels them to react, in particular Joyce and Mike.

Mike is Will's dearest friend, yet most audience members believe he only tolerates Will nowadays. That Will is the irrational one, placing lofty significance on a fading relationship. Looking back to S1, there's a reason why Mike's reaction to Will's untimely "demise" was heavily focused on. It was tangible, physical, evidence to Mike that he's lost Will.

"Losing Will" is a recurring concern for Mike, and there's a certain tragic irony to Mike "losing Will" in every possible way (emotionally, psychologically, and physically) that can only be matched by Lucas calling Max "a ghost". I say all this because, if the Duffers are truly planning to make Mike-Will happen, they need to reveal their hand. They need to build in events which have Mike show a profound depth of feeling that crosses the line of platonic into something else. While cliché, life-or-death scenarios are effective at that, especially when playing on old fears.

Jumping into a lake named after lovers, in November, to save your best friend from drowning when not too many Novembers ago you saw his "corpse" being pulled out of water by EMS? That sounds like Mike Wheeler alright. A Mike filled with Wheeler typical bravery and a hint of trauma laden fervor. One could even say that this act is a demonstration of "unambiguous true love" (see: Joyce-Hopper 4x07 reunion).

There isn't definite proof of Mike being fully submerged, like Will, at some point. There were rumors of production filming at Lovers Lake, but no paparazzi shots of cast members. The closest evidence is the wet haired Mike in the Stranger Things 5 teaser. However, another user pointed out that, per Maya's unintentional script leak, that a pipe does drip water on Mike's head while rescuing kids with Robin (and, most likely, Joyce and Will). So, that puts a damper on things.

I'm still maintaining some hope, given the timeline indicated by the costume changes (like Lucas' water stained pants)! But, this is very speculative and self-indulgent of me. What can I say? I love Will near death scenarios.

[miamc]

okay not to be corny but i feel like byler is the shows portrayal of that large scale “movie love”. here’s what i mean,

lumax is a great portrayal of real love. it’s grounded. even when they encounter obstacles, max and lucas don’t give up on each other. they don’t rely on grand gestures to prove their love.

jancy/stancy is a typical (not a bad thing) television love triangle. nancy goes back and forth between steve and jonathan throughout the show. it generates discussion in the audience.

jopper is a classic portrayal of two characters who you basically know will end up together in the end. you see it all the time in movies. they dance around each other until they finally realize and accept their feelings for one another. even when joyce was either bob, the audience was hoping that she would end up with hopper.

dustin and suzy are a juvenile and lighthearted portrayal of young love. they aren’t a major focus.

mileven is a teenage relationship that just doesn’t work. it’s a train wreck. sometimes it’s supposed to be comical and sometimes it’s supposed to be frustrating but more than that, it’s unserious. and it directly contrasts,

byler. the relationship that has been building since season one that will tie the entire show together. it is the culmination of the shows core themes and message. it’s the logical conclusion of a story that has been anti-conformity since day one. mike and will have been put through through so many classic romance tropes. they’ve fought, they’ve risked their lives to save each other, and their relationship has been treated as “different” and “special” since the beginning of the show. every season has an intimate byler storyline that separates the two of them from other characters. byler is the stranger things love story and i do believe that it will play a key role in defeating vecna.

for all its similarities and parallels to the other romantic couples on the show, it is also inherently different. no other couple encapsulates the heart of the show quite like byler does and there’s a reason they left the “reveal” for the finale. byler has always been the show stopping love story of the show, not mileven.

[miwiheroes]

Hi welcome to miwiheroes <3

MY BYLER SLIDES

*australian accent* 'Ello this is Eli, president of miwiheroes club and I realised I never made an intro post, also this is a little masterpost where you can find all the analysis/ byler rambling posts without having to scrolls through my account :D

I'm 19 years old

At university for psychology

he/him

I may look like an aggressively straight man but no one knows i'm actually hyperfixated on shipping two queer guys from a sci-fi netflix show

I'm a capricorn, infp, bisexual and trans ftm

my hyperfixations right now include byler, the elder scrolls (oblivion), link click, aot, the magnus archives and dan & phil <3

i'm from england

my spotify is 'figflower' and: Here are my byler playlists!!

i never used to write analysis on film but thx byler tumblr because i've been missing out

if you were wondering, my favourite characters from stranger things are (in this order): will, mike, hopper and el <3 okay see ya

MY ANALYSES:

(i will update these as i make them. my more massive analyses are highlighted in blue)

ANALYSES I'M MOST PROUD OF:

El's arc of her desire for a normal childhood - "Pretty"

Mike displaces his anger at himself onto others

A little ST5 theory

This theoretical model of relationships + ST couples

Mike and Will and El cannot be replaced by a different gender - they are tied to a queer narrative

All my Airport Scene Analyses

Blue and Yellow theory is completely canon

Will is not getting a new love interest in S5

Season 3 ending scene full analysis

Mike and the theme of promises

OTHER:

We have been heterobaited far more than queerbaited

Insane Loverslakegate proof

Mike's treatment of El's powers vs. Will's powers

The difference between Byler's interruption trope and Mileven's

Common Romantic Tropes used with Byler

The D&D Substitute scene is Mike questioning his sexuality

Byler + Reciprocal Looks of Love

The existence of a Love Triangle proves Byler endgame

The Painting Lie is Chekhov's Gun

'The Will Voice' isn't a thing Bylers made up

The original S3 ending script reveals inner thoughts

Mike's lack of attraction to women other than El

Purposeful blocking analysis

Purposeful music choices and music titles

Will's understanding of Mike makes the audience root for Byler

Mike has to be wrong about needing to love El

Elmike breakup vs Byler fight contrast

Phonegate canon or not canon? analysis

Mike's bedroom detailed analysis

How Mike treats El's letters vs. Will's art

Mike's conversation with El in the grocery store is queer coded

Byler parallels with other canon ships

Answering a mileven ask part 2: electric boogaloo

Answering a mileven ask part 1

Mike's self-sabotaging avoidance to incriminate himself

Silly queer coding jokes

The M&M Scene

Will's 'I'm not gonna fall in love' is a bigger proof than you think

Confirmation that Mike jumping into the quarry was about Will

Milkvan's conflict, Byler, and the concept of understanding

Byler and the insane amount of Closet Imagery

Season 1 Mike is extremely queer-coded

What if Mike's gay from the beginning of S5 like Will in S4?

You're not delusional: What I noticed when I wasn't a byler

Thinking about the monologue…

Mike is clearly thinking about Will in the Snow Ball scene

Light is symbolic for truth = byler endgame

MY FICS:

My AO3 Account: miwiheroes

vibrant days (caution to the breeze) - 15,204 words

Mike and Will's relationship has been secret for 2 months. Neither of them want to bring it up, but things build and build until it becomes more of a burden than just a little mutual understanding. Will's growing up (and getting drunk) and it's impossible for Mike to stay in the same place forever, with words always on the tip of his tongue.

aka mike and will are hiding their relationship and avoid talking about hard subjects

is my timing that flawed? - 14,621 words

In the aftermath of a harrowing escape from the Upside Down, Mike and Will grapple with physical and emotional wounds. Faced with Will's new plan and doubt of what's real and what's not, Mike must confront reality and something that he had never been able to truly control.

aka wound cleaning fic + a devastating cliffhanger + Will not knowing what's real and what's not

it's rotten work (not to me. not if it's you) - 15,919 words

Ten years after everything, and Will hasn't been able to shake a debilitating fear of anything medical-related. So when the only option and smart thing to do is get a blood test from the hospital, Mike is sure to take the time to be there for him.

aka will needs a blood test but has a phobia of needles and mike takes time off work to support him

what you really want - 46,456 words

aka a s5 speculatory mike wheeler-centric fic about his internalised homophobia and a lot of moments where he's not so clever about his feelings with will

our hearts were singing - 13,724 words (dnf)

aka karen invites mike and will over for christmas, but mike still hasn't told his whole family about his relationship, even after a year of them definitely not-so-platonically living together. maybe it's time.

you can't help but become the sun - 16,267 words

aka mike offers to be will's reference, they talk about mike's self-esteem issues, and more shenanigans with paint ensue

stay with me a while - 9,515 words

aka mike confessed to will to save the world, but will wasn't conscious enough to say it back. when he wakes the next morning, they have a lot to talk about.

life used to be so hard - 5,697 words (incomplete)

A collection of drabbles and short one-shots that tell a non-chronological story about Mike and Will's life after the UD. Stay tuned to put the pieces together and figure out a full story <3 Further explanation is in the notes of the first instalment.

the boy with the thorn in his side - 53,566 words

aka mike figures out his sexuality in the worst way possible, but as always, will is there to help. in more ways than one.

how could i be blind to it? - 16,082 words

aka holly's missing, and her friends are determined to find her and bring her home. one person in her friend group in particular is more passionate than the others about finding her, and soon mike finds out why that is. and why he felt so different about will to his other friends when he was a kid.

answers you seek will never be found at home - 12,325 words (incomplete)

aka mike begs will to escape their small town after too many run-ins with homophobic small-town bs. he knows will's meant to find himself elsewhere, but he never expects to find an answer to the age-old question of his own fate. prom, gay bars, sleazy hotels, train stations, two lesbians and their not-so-legal marriage - they aren't the traditional sources of wisdom, but he can't complain.

MY BYLER EDIT COMP ON YOUTUBE

Have fun! And if you don't ship byler ur allowed to interact but if you want to hate on it, please don't interact! I'll just delete any hate because I personally think there is no space for homophobia or negativity on my page.

You'll also find 0 byler doubt here. I don't want to worry people. So ily <3

[gayofthefae]

Even if Will hadn't encouraged Mike, that moment wouldn't have felt right. Because no matter how you spin it, saying those words in that situation cannot be unprompted. And to be genuine, to convince me that you just wanted to say it from the heart, it has to be.

I was just thinking about why Hopper's apology in season 2 over the radio felt so much different despite that common "I hope she can hear him" energy. That's what it was.

Even in the shed, this was there. When Joyce spoke, they didn't know this was something that would help. She was just trying it and absolute worst case scenario, getting through to him to say goodbye and make sure he knew he was loved. She did not know it would help. Jonathan's joining was also unprompted because he was under no obligation to. His mom already got it covered and could have kept talking. The same is true for Mike, even the way he starts talking from out of the shadows emphasizes the unexpected and thus voluntary nature of it: he did not need to do that. He was not the only one capable of doing and therefore it was not required of him. He just wanted to and thought he should. Even in knowing it could help, he still wanted to help in that way and chose to be vulnerable when he was not the only one that could. My example is always that Hopper was not close enough to volunteer like that and so he didn't, despite being present.

The key difference I finally pinpointed is that no matter what, those stakes will always keep the words from feeling voluntary. However good it was, those words had an undeniable ulterior motive. And by interrupting him with the pizza earlier so we can't know for sure what he was going to say, the writers ensured that.

[gayofthefae]

I think I thought this too and thought he just couldn't get to her or at worst she didn't see him but on my second watch I remember reading the subtext "I don't need your comfort. You don't even love me." Everything is crashing down on her at the same time in this moment I think. And it does so more when she gets more "proof" later with his reaction to Angela but it is right now, too. She can pretend they're relationship is good and secure but she is not feeling good about being vulnerable with him right now because she doesn't trust that his compassion is real, and even so, being close to him may just serve as a reminder of the stress she's associating with him right now.

And that goes along with the lie thing. She doesn't trust him to love her the way she needs right now so she doesn't want to be reminded/confirmed that he can't and she is still, as she has been out of insecurity all day, trying to make the day about "me and you" and ignoring Will in a desperate attempt to CONVINCE him to love her. She isn't actively ignoring Will like Mike is, she just can't afford to focus on anything but giving Mike the perfect day. The perfect day a perfect girlfriend would give him. The kind of girlfriend a person loves.

And yeah, the simplest easiest way to resolve tension in a relationship like this? *Gasp* don't write in the first place! Need a plot conflict for the couple? Make it situational! (S4 Lumax) Systemic! (S3 Jancy) Projecting you past problems! (S3 Jopper). Don't make the couple have problems that come FROM the couple. The whole point is to romanticize it and say that they SOLVE everything together and BY being together. The tension is when they're apart and being together resolves it. If it is ever demonstrated that they are relaxed apart and, because of their conflict, BECOME stressed when together, we will not want them together. At worst, they should be the same apart and together and not be improved by each other. But, out of love and wanting to work things out, THEY ADD STRESS TO EACH OTHER'S LIVES. ESPECIALLY in season 4! Like I said, it's why she doesn't want to see Mike! It would be overwhelming and piling onto her current stress!

Mike and El consistently become more stressed when they're together. They love each other and have good moments in their dating but all of their conflicts are 2 steps back, 2 steps forward aka their relationship itself stresses them out and they fight all season to get to a place where they can be happy together. Sweet, telling of love, love is work, but love shouldn't be THAT much work. And being happy together is the bare minimum. They have not surpassed the bare minimum because they can't even maintain it consistently.

They have said repeatedly now "being together equals stress but when they overcome it, they're okay. Not being together inherently equals being okay."

If they wanted us to think something different they would have shown us El not doing okay as a result of her separation from Mike during season 4 even ONCE. They even managed to bring up Max even though that plotline was almost entirely flashbacks. They mentioned Max to give the reunion more satisfaction. They even showed El thinking of Will as she referenced the mind flayer to Papa. But nothing for Mike. (And Jonathan, she loves you too).

There is so much they COULD have done and didn't. But more importantly, there is SO much they could have NOT done and DID.

the first time i saw this, when i was NOT a byler shipper, i thought el was running TO mike. i thought we were getting a sweet moment where el runs to mike and he puts an arm around her or hugs her.

then i realized she was running away from him. 

and i was like, why?? they're supposed to be the couple why does she not want his comfort??

and even after will calls her out on doing mike wrong by lying to him, even after she sees that mike is attempting to talk to her and comfort her, that he's not angry at her, she still tells angela to lie to mike. more lies. that's how much she cares about keeping up the persona. had angela lied to mike, el would've continued lying to him the entire week. something she knows in her heart is wrong and not fair to mike.

this is a theme in s4. putting who you want to be seen as before being honest with your bf/gf. going above and beyond to preserve your lie, to be seen as who you want to be.

chrissy does that with jason. who she portrays herself as is completely different than who she really is and what she's really going through. jason has absolutely no idea chrissy is struggling and refused to believe chrissy would buy drugs, because chrissy didn't want to tell him. who knows how jason would've reacted if chrissy was honest, we don't know because chrissy didn't trust him enough to tell him. that's not love at all, that's sad.

this is a point in s2 as well. murray calls nancy out for being afraid to be her true self, and she stays with steve because she doesn't have to be her true self around him. she is her true self when she's with jonathan, and that's why they worked together. that's love.

the exact same thing happens with chrissy. the first time we see her genuinely smile is when she's with eddie. she's sweet and charismatic, and had she lived she totally would've gone to eddie's show, something you never would've expected from her, something her boyfriend, the person she pretends to love, would NEVER do.

robin and steve reinforce this too

you fall in love with the person who makes you feel accepted, the person who makes you feel like you can be who you are. the person you trust with your true self.

mike and el don't trust each other enough, they don't understand each other well enough.

they would have to change their behavior towards each other by leaps and bounds, and we're already at the last season. there is no time for that. stranger things isn't a multi season show about the complexity of romantic relationships and the healthy way to resolve problems. there is no time for that in just about any movie or show, especially a sci-fi show. you know what's way easier and way more likable? pairing your character with someone they naturally click with, who bring out the best in each other and for some reason can't help but be their authentic selves when they're with each other.

did it with jancy, like i said earlier

did it with lumax. when lucas and max talked on the bus max found herself spewing about things she'd never even said out loud before, and she had to stop herself. something about lucas just made her feel comfortable, like she could be herself and tell the truth. she trusted him.

"You're nothing like your brother, okay? You're cool and different, you're super smart, and you're like, totally tubular."

jopper too! joyce constantly had to hide things from bob, she was insecure about their family not being normal.

"This is not a normal family."

"It could be."

though bob had good intentions, the message of the show is not trying to be normal when you aren't. whatever it is about you that makes you weird or different, whatever you've been through that changed you, stay true to it. dont bottle it up and try to be someone else. all of vecnas victims in s4 were doing this, and it didn't end well for them.

they even did it with dustin and suzie. dustin constantly tries to impress max with his teeth, then in season 3 he says suzie thinks kissing is better without teeth. he doesn't have to be insecure about that or try to impress her. she likes him for him.

mike isn't comfortable being his true self around el either. he's insecure about his interests, he feels like he has to act older and cooler to impress her.

you shouldn't be with the person you feel you have to impress. you should be with the person who relieves that pressure, who makes you feel like being the authentic you is enough.

jonathan and nancy, lucas and max, joyce and hopper, dustin and suzie,

cough WILL AND MIKE cough...

[thegayhimbo]

Stranger Things (1x08): “The Upside Down” Review

To my understanding, this episode gets ranked highly by fans and critics as one of the best in the series, and I can see why: It’s a well-paced, well-directed, and thrilling conclusion to this season, all while leaving open the possibility for a sequel. There’s a sense of everything coming full-circle, with some scenes even calling back to the Pilot: The first shot being an exterior of Hawkins Lab. Hopper at the police station with the wisecracks about sleeping with someone’s wife while Flo takes away his cigarette for his health. The boys playing a D&D campaign in Mike’s basement where they stumble across a terrifying monster in their game.

There are of course the changes the characters have gone through since the first episode, and the sense that just because they’re trying to return to normal doesn’t mean everything is that way: Mike still misses El. Hopper is still haunted by betraying El’s location to Brenner and leaves food out for her in the forest in the hopes she might be out there somewhere. Nancy still has feelings for Jonathan despite going back to Steve. Will is throwing up slugs in the bathroom while hallucinating the Upside Down. Hell, even the Gate remains open at the end of this episode, and the rot is beginning to spread from it. El may have defeated the Demogorgon, but there are more dangerous monsters in that dimension, as we will find out in later seasons.

While I love this episode (and would rank it in the Top 5-10 Favorites), I’ve always objected to the idea that the show should have ended here. This is a show that's always been ripe with potential, not just for future story prospects, but also with its cast. The Duffer Brothers were smart enough to realize that. In fact, some of my favorite moments on this show come from the later seasons, and the mythology behind Hawkins Lab and the Upside Down is intriguing enough that I want to know more about it. I also was interested in seeing more adventures with these characters in this specific time period (i.e. the 80s) that I’d grown to love. Had the show been an anthology series, or even done the time jump a decade later as they originally planned, not only would have it lowered my interest in wanting to rewatch this season, it would have been hard to remain attached to these characters, ESPECIALLY since it would have involved bringing in a brand-new cast.

Best way I can describe this is how I felt about the two-part movies based on Stephen King’s It: I liked and cared about the kids from the first movie. I had a harder time getting invested in their adult counterparts for the second movie. That’s not even getting into how the second movie felt like a rehash of the plot from the first movie. I get that the book did a better job in combining the kids story with their adult counterparts, and that the movies made changes that Stephen King fans weren’t happy with, but still.

By contrast, I never felt that way about the later seasons of Stranger Things. If anything, the mythology of the Upside Down not only remains an enigma to me (something I’ve endlessly speculated about for years), but is also a lot like an onion where you keep peeling it back and finding new layers underneath. It’s rich in lore, and so are the characters. It’s why I like and defend the tie-ins (books, comics, graphic novels, etc) in spite of how questionable they are in the overall continuity: I find myself wanting to know more about these characters and this world.

So I’m glad the show continued past season 1 with the same characters and story. If it had stopped here, I would have been deeply disappointed, and complained about all the lost potential and unresolved threads. It also helps that the show isn’t like Criminal Minds or General Hospital or Supernatural or any daytime/nighttime crime show or soap opera that have dragged themselves out to the point of rotating characters who are no longer recognizable and the writers just spit-balling storylines with no rhyme or reason. At least with Stranger Things, there's always been the sense that the writers are trying out new ideas and concepts each season, as well as how the characters have grown and the audience has been along for the journey to see that development. They planned for 4-5 seasons, and clearly have an endgame in mind, and I want to know how it all ends for better or worse.

Part 1: Brenner’s Downfall

Technically, this isn’t the end for Brenner since we know he survives and comes back for season 4. However, it is the beginning of the end for him in regards to the power he once wielded. Not just over El, but arguably with his position in the Government. When he returns several seasons later, it’s in a diminished role, and the fact Colonel Sullivan didn’t have any problem targeting him for death indicates that either Brenner outlived his usefulness to the Government, or he was a liability to National Security at that point. Likely both.

What’s frustrating is we don’t get a lot of information about what happened to Brenner between seasons 2-3. Dr. Owens tells Joyce and Hopper in the next season that Brenner and the people who worked under him are gone, but what is that supposed to mean? Did Brenner get transferred to a different department in the Government? Did he get punished by those he answered to for his role in causing the Gate to open and creating the crisis in Hawkins? Were employees under Brenner fired for their role in this as well? There’s also the question of former employees like Ray Carroll from season 2, and what he tells El and Kali about Brenner being alive, with the implication Carroll was still in contact with Brenner at the time. Either way, after the Demogorgon attack, it doesn’t seem like Brenner has the authority he once commanded. Brenner's collaboration with Dr. Owens in secret over the Nina Project in season 4 (to the point of hiding it in the middle of the Nevada desert) makes me question if he even had an active role in the Government at that point, or if he had been a fugitive for a while (courtesy of Colonel Sullivan, or even before Sullivan came into the picture) and was just taking advantage of Dr. Owen’s grace to continue to exert whatever little influence he had left.

Regardless, I did enjoy seeing Brenner get put in his place by Joyce and Hopper. Joyce has spent this entire season being gaslighted by Hawkins Lab, by her abusive ex-husband, and arguably by the Demogorgon, and she was done with all of that. She knew Brenner didn’t actually give a damn about the six people (Will, Barbara, Dale, Henry, Shepard, and the Elevator Scientist from the first episode) who were taken by the monster, or even the hypothetical sons and daughters he claimed the monster would kill. This has always been about Brenner's fixation on El and his fascination with the Upside Down, and if he has to sacrifice other people to satisfy his scientific curiosity, so be it. Joyce saw right through Brenner, and she was having none of his bullshit:

Similarly, Hopper isn’t remotely impressed by the interrogation techniques Brenner’s underlings use on him, and cuts through the crap to get a private meeting with Brenner for what is arguably his most morally questionable choice in the entire show: Giving up El’s location in exchange for a chance to save Will from the Upside Down. A choice that’s going to haunt Hopper for the next month, but one he feels like he has to make for Joyce’s sake. He is going full Lando Calrissian from Star Wars, and he knows it. Hopper also knows Brenner doesn’t operate on empathy or compassion, and the only reason he believes Brenner will spare Dustin, Lucas, and Mike is out of pragmatism: Brenner can’t afford to kill 3 kids and cover up their deaths in a way that won't raise alarm bells within the Hawkins community.

In any case, Brenner accepts the deal because it allows him to recapture El, and he thinks Hopper and Joyce will die in the attempt to rescue Will. Even if they don’t, he has the means of keeping them quiet if he needs to.

One of the characters that Matthew Modine took inspiration from for Brenner’s hair design (and arguably aspects of Brenner’s personality) is Colonel Martin Hessler from the 1965 movie Battle of the Bulge:

Based on the titular event from World War II, Battle of the Bulge is an epic war film that takes creative liberties and features fictional characters in the place of real-life military commanders, soldiers, and civilians. It’s still a WWII movie based on a real event (and a well-directed one at that) dealing with the fight between the Allied Forces and the Nazis, but not one that’s adhering to historical accuracy. In a fun bit of trivia, aspects of this film helped inspire The Battle of Hoth from The Empire Strikes Back.

Anyway, the character of Brenner owes a lot to Colonel Martin Hessler (played by Robert Shaw), not just in terms of hairstyle, but also in terms of his cold, detached, pragmatic demeanor. Like Brenner, Hessler is a man that commands authority, and expects those under him to follow his orders to the letter. Everything he does is from a calculated angle, and that includes sacrificing as many of his men as necessary to achieve his goals. He is also a control freak the same way Brenner is. In one notable scene from the movie, Hessler's military caravan is blown up by a land mine, which he expected his troops to have cleared out for him by this point. Furious at the loss of a tank and unnecessary time, he tells one of the officers under his command that they will go in front of his tanks to clear the remaining mines, despite knowing they will likely be killed in the process. There’s a certain ruthlessness to how Hessler approaches war the same way Brenner approaches science: Human casualties are acceptable as long as it produces desired results.

There’s a notable speech towards the end of the movie that Hessler gives to one of his underlings, Conrad, that paints his motivations in a twisted and nihilistic light: He knows that Germany has no chance of winning the war (this movie takes place in December 1944 when Germany was losing), but he still has the opportunity to prolong the war inevitably. When Conrad is shocked at why he’d want this, Hessler states it’s so he and the German Army can continue to have importance in the world, even at the expense of others getting dragged into future battles.

In a way, it makes me think about what Brenner’s future would've looked like had he survived, or if he recaptured El, or even if the Massacre at Hawkins Lab never happened. The Soviet Union was already on its last legs by the 80s and finally collapsed in 1991. What would have this entailed for Brenner? In an alternate scenario where El was still under his control but the Soviet Union was no longer a threat, I’d be hard-pressed to believe he’d ever consider ending the program. This was his life’s work, and I’m willing to bet that if he wasn’t able to get Henry/One/Vecna back from the Upside Down (since he’d been using El to find Henry in the darkness), then he would have inevitably taken blood from El to restart the program and create more psychokinetic kids for the Government. The difference being that, instead of these kids targeting Soviets, they would target enemies and terrorists to the United States. Like Colonel Hessler, Brenner would not have gone quietly into that good night, but would have prolonged things for the sake of feeling important.

In many ways, it gives a certain context to Vecna’s reasons for not just sparing Brenner at the school when he could have used the Demogorgon to kill him, but also why he may have possibly spared Brenner back in 1979: It wasn’t just enough to kill Brenner. Vecna wanted Brenner to suffer, and what better way to achieve that than force Brenner to watch as Vecna destroys his entire legacy and renders everything he ever worked for worthless. First, he murders the other special kids (except for El and Kali) who were the culmination of Brenner’s life’s work. Now that the Gate is opened and Vecna’s tapped into the power of the Upside Down, he plans to use it to burn the world while Brenner is forced to witnesses this. It reminds me of Bane’s motivation in The Dark Knight Rises for keeping Bruce/Batman alive in the pit while he systematically tears Gotham to shreds: Only after Bane’s turned everything Batman cares about to ashes will he allow Batman to die. Same goes for what Vecna planned to do with Brenner. Pettiness and deep-seated grudges are one hell of a drug.

Even without the foreknowledge of later episodes though, season 1 wasn’t subtle when it implied Brenner survived the Demogorgon. One golden rule of television is unless you see a dead body, that character always has the possibility of coming back. Plus, despite showing several covered corpses in the aftermath of the Middle School attack, we never see Brenner’s corpse:

On top of that, the Duffer Brothers weren’t exactly subtle in Worlds Turned Upside Down about Brenner’s fate:

Part 2: The Upside Down and the Demogorgon

In a similar vein to the first Poltergeist movie, the Duffer Brothers initially didn’t plan to show the Upside Down (which was originally titled “The Nether”) in order to leave it to the viewers imagination what kind of horrors lurked within. Obviously, they changed their minds about this, and for the better: The Upside Down not only continues to be terrifying four seasons in, but it feels like the audience has barely scratched the surface of knowing what this world is capable of.

I've talked about how Dark Souls was one inspiration for the Upside Down. There are other inspirations as well, including the 2009 post-apocalyptic movie The Road, where the ash-covered skies and landscape helped inspire the aesthetic of the Upside Down, as well as the influence of Polish painter Zdzislaw Beksinski who was known for creating pictures resembling hellish dystopian surrealism.

There’s also a very Lovecraftian type of horror on display within the Upside Down, where it features a gate resembling a breathing membrane, and the mucus, slime, mold, tendrils, and vines wrapped about various aspects of the world. As we now know from later seasons, those vines and tendrils almost act like nerves in a body that connect it to the Mind Flayer/Vecna. In fact, the way the Upside Down is presented here comes off like a dying diseased body where everything is interconnected and some kind of infection has taken root.

For right now, let’s talk about the most well-known inspiration: The Silent Hill series.

When it comes to these particular video games, it seems like there’s always one of two stories Silent Hill games will focus on: Either a protagonist with a haunted past being lured to the town of Silent Hill where the environment and the monsters within take on manifestations of the protagonists inner demons, or it deals with a religious doomsday cult called The Order operating from Silent Hill, which has desire to bring the Apocalypse that will purge the world and bring the “faithful” into paradise. Usually, this involves birthing some kind of Monstrous God via a ritual. Or in some cases (like Silent Hill Origins and Silent Hill Homecoming), they’ll combine the two story-threads into one. Either way, the town itself manifests in one of two ways: A town with a grey foggy overcast, also known as Fog World, where monsters lurk in every corner and the environment is constantly changing. And the Otherworld, which is a perverted version of the Fog World consisting of rusting metal and blood/gore that acts as “reality becoming a nightmare.” Like the Fog World, it’s constantly changing, it can be shaped by the psyche of a person (i.e. monsters manifesting themselves as subconscious fears, desires, etc), and the protagonists are constantly alternating between that world and the Fog World.

From the looks of how the Upside Down was created, the Duffer Brothers certainly took inspiration from the design of Silent Hill’s Fog World, as well as general ideas from the Otherworld of some kind of rot settling in which is causing everything to decay.  Even Will alternating between this world and the Upside Down in season 2 (which the characters describe as “True Sight” in reference to the ability to see into the Ethereal Plane in D&D) holds similarities to how the protagonists in these games are constantly shifting on the different planes, and how (sometimes) they see things other characters may not (similar to Silent Hill 2 where James Sutherland’s perception of the monsters and the town differs from other characters like Laura, Eddie Dombrowski, and Angela Orosco, who are also trapped in Silent Hill).

I’ve known for a while that some fans have speculated on the idea of the Upside Down being El’s creation from her psyche, similar to what the first Silent Hill video game did with Alessa Gillespie and how her trauma and broken mental state manifested itself in the form of monsters that wreaked havoc.

However, as of season 4 and The First Shadow, that a debunked theory. The First Shadow especially put emphasis on the fact that the Upside Down existed even before Henry/One/Vecna was ever born (since the Philadelphia Experiment took place in 1943 when the USS Eldridge disappeared into the Upside Down, allegedly marking when humans first made contact with that dimension). Dustin was likely right in speculating this world had existed for thousands of years. Monsters like the Demogorgon, Demodogs, and Demobats (some of which were likely inspired by the designs of certain monsters from Silent Hill, such as Air Screamers, Mumblers, and Groaners from the first game) were already present to begin with, and weren’t the manifestations of someone’s twisted imagination. Even the Mind Flayer, as we find out from the play, was already dominant in that world. Vecna didn’t create the Mind Flayer, so much as gave it a body via the black particles to operate with. El may have opened a Gate, but she didn’t create the Upside Down or its inhabitants.

Now, I have suggested the idea in the past of the Upside Down being malleable to a person’s psyche to form itself. It could be similar to how Silent Hill manifests the twisted fears and desires of those drawn to the town, or even “The Plane of Shadows” from D&D, in explaining why the Upside Down went from a hellish, desolate landscape to a frozen, decaying replica of the exact night of Hawkins (and likely the rest of the world) on November 6th 1983.

One movie that gets cited in Worlds Turned Upside Down as inspiration is a Russian science fiction film by Andrei Tarkovsky called Stalker (1979), which deals with a mysterious area called “The Zone” that appears one day and is sealed off by the Soviet Government because of how dangerous it allegedly is. Within The Zone, there’s a special room which grants the innermost desires of the person who comes to it wishing for something. The eponymous Stalker is someone who’s traveled to The Zone many times and can navigate around its dangerous traps and ever-changing environment, and willingly brings people to the Room in exchange for payment. One day, he’s hired by two different men, a writer and a professor, who are interested in the room for creative inspiration and scientific purposes (or so they initially claim), and takes them through the Zone to the Room. The twist is that the Room acts as a mirror to the soul, and what the person may verbally wish for in the Room isn’t what will manifest because the Room knows what the soul truly wants. The movie itself puts more emphasis on philosophical musings and debates over the science fiction elements, and the Zone itself is a green fertile land with the occasional human-like ruins as opposed to the dark desolate alien-like world of the Upside Down. However, the idea of the Room turning desires into reality is a component that I wonder might make its way onto the show. Could the reason that the Upside Down is frozen like this have to do with the subconscious desire of an individual to have the world shaped that way? If so, did that desire come from Will, Vecna, El, all three of them, or someone else?

I’m at a loss to give a scientific explanation (other than deliberate terraforming and the manipulation of matter) but given how the Duffer Brothers have stated their intention since the Montauk Pitch was to “use the mathematics and theoretical physics to ground our horror in reality,” I’m sure they have a scientific explanation for why this phenomenon happened. I just wish I could figure it out like how I figured out El and the other psychokinetic kids were connected via their powers to the Upside Down before I ever saw The First Shadow.

In any case, before we move on to other inspirations, it should be noted Hopper and Joyce’s storyline in this episode parallels the first Silent Hill game: Both involve a parent looking for their missing child in a warped dimension with the aid of a police officer. In Stranger Things, it’s Joyce and Hopper searching for Will. In Silent Hill, it’s Harry Mason looking for his daughter Cheryl with the help of a cop named Cybil Bennet. The missing child in both cases (Will and Cheryl) are wanted in the dimension they’re in for some nefarious purpose. Cheryl becomes an essential piece The Order needs to birth their new God and start the Apocalypse. In Will case, from what we’ve seen so far, he gets impregnated with slugs via a tendril that he’ll later start throwing up, with those slugs becoming future demodogs. He will also become possessed by the Mind Flayer in season 2 to supposedly act as its spy. I have speculated that Vecna and the Mind Flayer’s interest in Will goes beyond these things, and there’s another layer to this that has yet to be revealed. Perhaps it has something to do with the Upside Down freezing in time? We still don’t know yet if the frozen replica of the Upside Down was intentional on Vecna and The Mind Flayer’s part, or if they didn’t plan for this to happen and want to know why it did.

Outside of the Silent Hill Video Games, there are several other references that helped make up the Upside Down and the Demogorgon’s design. The first Alien movie comes to mind, particularly the scene of the Nostromo crew landing on LV-426 and exploring the planet, similar to how Hopper and Joyce travel through the Upside Down:

H.R. Giger was a major inspiration for the Upside Down and the design of the Demogrogon, with even certain traits of the creature paying homage to the Xenomorphs from the Alien Series. Additionally, Clive Barker, Guillermo del Toro, and Masahiro Ito (who designed the Silent Hill video games) also had an effect on the way the Demogorgon was designed.  

Clive Barker’s influence I see more in later seasons, specifically in regards to the Hellraiser characters of Pinhead (who shares similarities with Vecna) and The Leviathan (who shares similarities to the Mind Flayer), so I will go more in-depth about those parallels down the line.

Guillermo del Toro’s influence I can also see in the Demogorgon, particularly the Pale Man from Pan’s Labyrinth that Ofelia encounters during her quest, and how both monsters are thin, have long arms and legs, look humanoid but aren’t, have a greyish-white skin complexion, and come from the underworld.

While we’re on the subject of descending into the Underworld, let’s talk about the Demogorgon’s origins. And not just the D&D version of the Demogorgon either.

Demogorgon in mythology is described as a type of God or powerful demon that rules the underworld. There have been many variations through-out history, but the most common origin comes from Statius’s Latin Poem Thebaid, where it is introduced as “the sovereign of the threefold world.” It’s also believed this being was present in Lucan’s Pharsalia, when it’s mentioned by a witch as a threat against those she’s controlling. While this being is not initially named (with the narrator refusing to speak its name), author C.S. Lewis believes that a misconstruction was made from the world “demiurge” (which was Plato’s name for an artisan-like creator of the material world) by a scribe named Lactantius Placidus, resulting in the name Demogorgon. From there, the word took on a life of its own among literary scholars, usually being referred to as a God, a being of Chaos, or some kind of “Terror Demon.” “The Prince of Darkness” has also been a common name.

Famously, John Milton referred to the Demogorgon in Paradise Lost, which detailed Lucifer’s fall from Heaven and his plans to corrupt humanity:

By them stood Orcus and Ades, and the dreaded name Of Demogorgon; Rumor next and Chance, And Tumult and Confusion all imbroild, And Discord with a thousand various mouths. (Paradise Lost, 11, 963-67, ed. 1674)

This was Milton’s take on the Demogorgon:

Accordingly, I find it stated by the most ancient writers on mythology that Demogorgon, ancestor of all the gods, whom I note was also called Chaos by antiquity, begot the Earth among many other children whom he had begot. She, by an undetermined father, became the mother of Night; although Hesiod somewhat otherwise would make her the offspring of Chaos, as in the monostich.

Italian writer Boccarrio also gave his take on the Demogorgon:

“The principall and first of them all, and who inhabited in the middle of the earth, encircled round about, & circumuested with a dark and obfuscate cloud, breathing from his mouth a certaine liquid humiditie: but herein I proceed no further, having no further warrant for such depicturane.”

Additional examples of Demogorgon being refereed to in literature include Christopher Marlow’s Doctor Faustus (when the titular character invokes the name of the Demogorgon when summoning the demon Mephistopheles), Edmund Spencer’s The Faerie Queen (“Downe in the bottom of the deepe Abysse, Where Demogorgon in dull darknesse pent, Farre from the view of gods and heavens bliss, The hideous Chaos keepes.”), and in Prometheus Unbound by Percy Bysshe Shelly, where it overthrows the Roman God Jupiter, and is described as “the ultimate Power, behind and above all things that are, even the gods themselves.”

There’s a dark irony in how a misconstruction of a Greek word led to the creation of a being of chaos with a power that transcends the Gods, and how its entire existence is an accident that shouldn’t have happened but did. And now people are terrified of it. In comparison to the show’s version, the Demogorgon in literature comes off as an ancient Eldritch Abomination that’s so beyond human understanding that it can’t be described in a way that makes sense. The closest the show ever got to this kind of being was with the Mind Flayer, but even its motivations can be broken down to simplistic terms regarding survival and remaining the dominant power in the Upside Down. By contrast, the Demogorgon from literature is just there when it shouldn’t be, with almost a cold indifference to how it fits into the universe’s hierarchy, which arguably makes it more terrifying.

So it’s fascinating that when D&D introduced its version of the Demogorgon in 1976 in the supplementary rulebook, Eldritch Wizardry (and likely took inspiration from the previous literary references I just described), they gave it a physical description while still attempting to keep the aura of terror surrounding it. The Demogorgon in D&D is a demon lord, otherwise known as “The Prince of Demons,” that is 18 feet tall, has blue-green skin plated with snake-like scales, has the body and legs of a giant lizard, has two snake-like necks, a thick tail that is forked, tentacles for arms, and two heads that resemble those of evil baboons or mandrills. These two heads, named Aameul and Hethradiah, are separate entities sharing the same body. Aameul prefers deception whereas Hethradiah prefers destruction. According to the 1977 Monster Manual, “His [Demogorgons] appearance testifies to his command of cold-blooded things such as serpents, reptiles, and octopi.” To give context, these are some of the drawings of the Demogorgon from Art & Arcania: A Visual History:

Its physical description is nothing like the version of the Demogorgon we see on the show:

The Demogorgon on the show does keep with some of the traditions of its D&D and literary counterparts. Both monsters are ancient beings from the abyss (the abyss in this case being the Upside Down), both are considered The Dreaded, and both are ferocious to the point you’re lucky if you go toe-to-toe with it and come out alive. However, Stranger Things depicts the Demogorgon as a mere animal (albeit a powerful one) under the control of the Mind Flayer and Vecna. By contrast, the Demogorgon in D&D had a mind of its own (or two minds given that it has two heads) where it can think, can cast spells, has a gaze that can either hypnotize people or drive them insane, has the ability to experiment and create creatures of its own (chimeras, merrows, ettins, etc) and even has a cult of its own that worships it and is organized into warbands that leave a trail of destruction in its name. Some of these followers are even troglodytes (i.e. the monsters Mike references in the first episode that attack the Party during Mike’s game before the Demogorgon’s arrival). This video gives more information about D&D’s version of the Demogorgon for those who are interested:

I want to be clear that I’m not disparaging the show’s version of the Demogorgon. The design the Duffer Brothers came up with is unique, and I’m not surprised it’s become iconic in popular culture. The reason I bring up these different literary references and inspirations is to give a clearer picture regarding the thought process that went into creating this version of the monster and the world it originated from. Mythology is an ever-evolving process, and there are plenty of monsters, entities, and lore from long ago that writers will be keen to explore and put their own spin on. Look at how many different stories there are regarding vampires, werewolves, ghosts, and what rules/aspects are followed from previous lore, or what is added in to enhance how these beings are perceived.

Likewise, understanding what inspirations were used for the Upside Down might give insight into how this world operates and where they could take the story in season 5. Regardless of what they reveal about why time froze in the Upside Down, it’s clear something is broken and has gone seriously wrong. From this, I foresee one of two things happening: Either the Upside Down is permanently destroyed, or there’s something that needs to be fixed that will bring balance between both worlds and, while it won’t destroy the Upside Down, it will render it obsolete as a threat to the characters. I talked about this in my second review when I was drawing possible parallels between The Dark Crystal and the Upside Down, but given the last two episodes are called “The Bridge” and “The Right Side Up,” it makes me lean a little towards the latter idea of fixing something within instead of the world's permanent destruction.

Part 3: Joyce, Hopper, and Will

I can’t imagine Hopper’s choice to give up El’s location was an easy one, but damn if it didn’t cause him to feel immense guilt about it. He likely was counting on El’s powers being able to help her escape so that he could find her later, because otherwise I don’t think he’d be able to live with himself knowing El was once again trapped as a lab rat for Brenner to use. Either way, it was a dangerous gamble that almost didn’t work.

I don’t really know what to say about Hopper’s flashbacks to his daughter dying of cancer, other than it’s depressing as hell, and the revelation in season 4 about Hopper being contaminated with Agent Orange and other chemicals from the Vietnam War only makes these scenes harder to watch. Considering he already has an unhealthy lifestyle of drugs, alcohol, and smoking, it makes me wonder how much borrowed time he has left. Fans might say they’re not going to kill Hopper off since they faked his death once in season 3, but that’s not a guarantee, especially in the last season where the Duffer Brothers need to up the stakes. Brenner also looked like he died in this season, only to come back later and then get permanently killed off. Just because a character cheats death once doesn’t mean they’ll do it again.

Earlier this year in regards to season 5, they revealed they were doing casting calls for actresses that looked similar to Sara from Hopper’s flashbacks in this episode. That makes me think one of three things: Either they’re going to have Hopper undergo another journey in season 5 (likely related to El) that triggers specific flashbacks to his time with Sara, similar to this episode where his search for Will and certain things he sees (i.e. the stuffed lion, and the tendril in Will’s mouth) remind him of his daughter’s illness. Or (and this is based on what I’ve heard other fans speculate) the flashbacks could be a dying dream Hopper has where he meets his daughter again in a spiritual sense. The third option is that Vecna creates some kind of vision/hallucination of Sara to torment Hopper.

I didn’t think about this at the time, but given the twist about the Upside Down, I was curious about what Joyce’s house in the Upside Down looked like. Obviously, the hole Will briefly communicated with Joyce through in “The Body” has closed (similar to what happened to the rift in the tree that Nancy crawled through), but I was interested if they were going to show the wall where Joyce had put up Christmas lights in correlation to the letters of the alphabet she had spray-painted to communicate with Will. Instead, Joyce and Hopper just walk past it, with the camera not even focusing on it. I know it’s a small thing, but given the Upside Down froze on November 6th, 1983 and Joyce wouldn’t spray-paint the alphabet and put the lights up until November 9th, 1983, this means that the alphabet on the wall shouldn’t have existed in the Upside Down when Will was communicating with her. So when Will was using the wall, how did he know which letters to press, which light represented a certain letter, or that there were even letters on the wall to begin with?

I ended up going back to The Other Side (i.e. the comic that focuses on Will’s time in the Upside Down) to see what explanation they would give, and this was it:

Yeah…….given the direction season 4 went, and the revelation this dimension froze exactly on November 6th, 1983, the letters just appearing on the wall in the Upside Down is questionable at best, and a plot-hole at worst. In all fairness, I had forgotten about this bit in the comic, and while I have cited certain scenes from The Other Side in previous reviews since they offer some explanations about what was possibly going on with Will during season 1 (as well as how Jody Houser, the writer for the comic, worked with Netflix when developing this), I’ve tried to be careful about claiming the comic is canon. I know I suggested that it could be at the time when I first reviewed it, but that doesn’t necessary mean it is. I do believe there was information given to Jody Houser about what Will was doing during certain scenes from the show, and while there are certain aspects of the comic (like Will distracting the Demogorgon so Nancy could escape through the tree) that I like, I also recognize that if the Duffer Brothers wanted to, they could render this entire comic non-canon.

In any case, the best explanation I can think of for how Will was able to communicate with Joyce is that she told him through the lights what she planned to do, and that the lights he would see on the wall in the Upside Down would correlate with a letter from the alphabet.

Another small aspect is regarding whether the Upside Down’s atmosphere is toxic. I know the scientist at the beginning warns Joyce and Hopper that it is, but I’ve questioned this for several reasons:

We saw Nancy go into the Upside Down a few episodes ago with no biohazard suit on, where she was exposed to the environment and breathing in whatever particles were in the air. Yet we never see her in later episodes have any side-effects from it. No respiratory problems. No weird mutations on her skin or body. No cancer or infection developing. Nothing.

Same with Joyce and Hopper. The scene where they’re performing CPR on Will has them taking off the masks that go with the biohazard suits they’re wearing. And they had them off for well over a minute while breathing in the particles in the air. Yet they also don’t develop any abnormalities.

This isn’t to say I don’t think the Upside Down isn’t capable of altering someone’s physical or mental health (as we see with Will at the end of this episode through season 2, and even with Henry/One/Vecna in season 4), but considering we have characters in this season AND season 4 that are in the Upside Down with no protection on and yet don’t feature any health problems later, that makes me question if the atmosphere itself really is that toxic, or if the claims that it is are an exaggeration.

Finally, in regards to Hopper and Joyce saving Will, am I the only one who found it suspiciously easy how they were able to rescue him without encountering any other monsters? I get the Demogorgon was busy dealing with Nancy, Jonathan, and Steve, and would later attack the middle school, but I think if Vecna and the Mind Flayer really wanted to prevent Will from leaving, they could have sent a legion of monsters after Joyce and Hopper to butcher them on the spot. If Will was rescued, it’s because they wanted him to be. And I don’t think it’s just because Will was impregnated with the slugs either.

Part 4: The Monster Hunting Trio (Nancy, Jonathan, and Steve)

The scene with Nancy and Jonathan cutting their hands at the count of three reminded me of the berries scene from The Hunger Games with Katniss and Peeta. Both cases involved the characters doing something suicidal, with the difference being Katniss and Peeta intended to commit suicide unless the Capitol backed down from reneging on the two-victor rule, whereas Jonathan and Nancy intended to lure the Demogorgon out with their blood to kill it, and had every intention of surviving.

I am curious about the Demogorgon’s attraction to blood considering the revelation it’s being controlled by Vecna/The Mind Flayer. I’ve already said before in previous reviews that season 4 recontextualizes the Demogorgon's actions, making them seem more calculated than that of a regular animal. So when the Demogorgon comes for Nancy and Jonathan (and later attacks the middle school because of the blood spilled from Connie and the other agents), is it doing it because the Mind Flayer (or Vecna) allows it to, or does the attraction to blood overwhelm whatever control they have on the Demogorgon? I’m thinking specifically about the Taxxon’s never-ending hunger in the Animorphs series, and how even when they were infested with Yeerks, that hunger could overwhelm the Yeerk’s control of their host. Does a similar principle apply to the Demogorgon here? Considering what we see with D’Art in season 2 (where his affection for Dustin allowed him to temporarily overcome whatever programming the Mind Flayer had him operating under), it’s not completely out of the realm of possibility to suggest that the hive mind’s hold on these creatures isn’t absolute, and that certain things (i.e. animal instinct, affection, blood, etc) could allow it to temporarily break free.

In any case, the way the Demogorgon attacks Nancy and Jonathan suggests that, even if it was attracted to the scent of their blood, it doesn’t mean it was stupid and didn't notice the traps they’d set up. It refuses to follow them down the hallway where the bear trap is, disappears briefly, and waits for them to come out of the room before it strikes. When it does appear again, it doesn’t break through the walls or the ceiling like last time, but almost quietly pops out of the ground behind Nancy and Jonathan and takes them by surprise. The only reason it even ends up in the bear trap at all is because it didn't anticipate Steve showing up again to attack it with the spiked bat.

Speaking of Steve, there’s a dark irony in that he came to apologize to Jonathan and make things right, only to get dragged into something that would change his life forever. He wanted an explanation two episodes ago about what Nancy and Jonathan had been doing, and he got it. Be careful of what you wish for, as the old saying goes.

I find it telling that he went to Jonathan’s house first as opposed to Nancy’s, and his surprised reaction to seeing Nancy indicates he didn’t expect her to be there. To his credit, he doesn’t react with possessive jealousy or wrongful assumptions like he did last time. The mere fact he was at Jonathan’s house and wanted to speak to him tells me he was there to try and make peace. I’ve said before that Steve doesn’t get any pleasure in being cruel to others the way Billy and Angela do, and I believe he was genuine in wanting to apologize for the vile things he said to Jonathan earlier in the day. Considering we didn’t hear his car pull up, I wonder if he showed up earlier when Nancy and Jonathan were laying the traps and was trying to muster the courage to talk to Jonathan. He was ashamed of what he did and how he acted.

I found it sad but also unintentionally hilarious when he was trying to apologize to Nancy, and Nancy tells him she didn’t care about that. Which is true. For her, the theater incident probably feels like a lifetime ago given everything that’s happened in the past 12 hours, and the last thing she wanted was Steve getting dragged into something that could get him killed. Unfortunately, she doesn’t do a good job convincing him that everything is fine, and he’s perceptive enough to realize something is off. His reaction of panic, horror, and confusion at the state of the house, at Jonathan and Nancy’s aggressive (but also understandable) behavior, and seeing the monster itself is pretty much how I’d expect anyone to react in that kind of situation. I’m sure fans at the time season 1 first aired got a kick out of Jonathan and Nancy telling Steve to “Shut Up,” but I still feel bad for Steve. He came to apologize, and got pulled into a nightmare.

For me, the first time I started to soften towards Steve was when he came back for Nancy and Jonathan. At that point, he had an out. He could have run, and almost did, and then saw the lights flicker again, and he knew what that meant: If he left, Nancy and Jonathan were going to die. And he knew if he went back, he could possibly die as well. Regardless, he still went back to save them. Steve’s story reminds me a little of the arc Lt. Weaver has in Battle of the Bulge, where he starts out as callow and irresponsible, but after his sergeant saves his life from a massacre (similar to how Jonathan and Nancy save Steve from the Demogorgon), it inspires a change in him as he strives to live up to the rank he has, and puts his life on the line, to the point of becoming a Spanner in the Works for Colonel Hessler. Much like how the Demogorgon under Vecna’s control didn’t expect to get attacked by Steve (either because he didn’t notice Steve initially, or he did and assumed Steve would be too cowardly to face him).

A big reason for why this is one of my favorite scenes in the show is how all three of these characters played an important role in temporarily defeating the monster. I made reference to this when I first rewatched in preparation for season 4, but the bat is the perfect metaphor for each character’s contribution: Nancy is the one who found the bat and came up with the plan to lure out the Demogorgon and kill it. Jonathan is the one who (along with Nancy) set up the traps, and even built the spiked bat. Steve is the one who ultimately wielded the bat and put it to use. Neither role overshadows the other, and all three of them end up saving each other, which keeps things balanced and doesn’t let one character outshine the other. Jonathan saved Steve the first time the Demogorgon broke through the ceiling (and warned him about the bear trap during the rescue). Nancy saved Jonathan the second time the Demogorgon came back by shooting at it (which didn’t kill it, but it did get the thing off Jonathan). Steve saved Nancy and Jonathan by taking the Demogorgon by surprise and causing it to get caught in the bear trap. Jonathan is the one who put the finishing touch by lighting the thing on fire. It may not have destroyed it, but it certainly injured it badly enough to flee (similar to what happens to Vecna during the Battle at the Creel House in season 4).

Even at the time, despite not being in the fandom, I was aware of the phrase “Monster Hunting Trio” which stemmed from this scene. I can see the appeal of it in a Fire-Forged Friends kind of way, and while I wasn’t eager about Steve getting back together with Nancy, I wasn’t opposed to the idea of him being her friend, or even him and Jonathan becoming friends. Sadly, the Duffer Brothers never capitalized on this afterwards, and with the introduction of other characters like Robin, Eddie, and Argyle (or the formation of new friendships like Dustin and Steve), they ended up moving away from this initial pairing in later seasons, with Nancy, Jonathan and Steve pursuing separate arcs. For what it’s worth, some of the BTS photos they’ve released for season 5 indicate that Steve’s storyline may be connected with Nancy and Jonathan, so we may still get some variation of the “Monster Hunting Trio” before the show is over. I would rather see that over another love triangle drama-fest over whether Nancy will end up with Steve or Jonathan.

Speaking of which, let’s talk about the ending regarding these three:

I remember at the time having mixed feelings about Nancy going back to Steve (and to my understanding, so did Joe Keery, Charlie Heaton, and Natalia Dyer when they were told about that decision). Like I said, I had warmed up to Steve (even if he wasn’t my favorite at the time), but I wasn’t eager for Nancy to get back together with him after everything that happened. Plus, I was on board the Jancy ship at the time (and still am).

On rewatch, my feelings are still mixed, albeit for different reasons. Considering Jonathan’s introverted nature of closing himself off to other people outside of his family, as well as Will’s return from the Upside Down, I can understand why he didn’t immediately jump into a relationship with Nancy. They may have bonded over the week in their quest to save people they cared about, but once Will came back, Jonathan went back to what he’s usually done: Prioritizing his family. I don’t say that to fault him. I get why he did it, and he may have even felt like he wasn’t ready for a romantic relationship at that point, even if he had feelings for Nancy.

In regards to Nancy and Steve, the revelation that it took a month before she restarted her relationship with Steve (because she was waiting for Jonathan during that time) is something I have conflicting feelings about.

On the one hand, it shows that, regardless of Steve coming through for Nancy in the end, it doesn’t mean she automatically forgave him for what he did or immediately went back to him. I’m okay with this because I think she had a right to be mad with Steve (even if Steve was remorseful about it), and it also infers that Steve likely had to do some major damage control during that month regarding the rumors that got spread about Nancy and Jonathan, as well as put in the elbow grease to demonstrate he had changed. Considering the direction Steve went after season 2 when their breakup was final and she had moved on to Jonathan, I believe Steve would have put in the effort to be a better person REGARDLESS of whether Nancy took him back. This wasn’t being done for her benefit only. He was making the changes because he despised the person he became, and didn’t ever want to go back to being that way again. We even see this in the time jump when it’s implied that he had a hand in helping get Jonathan a new camera for Christmas, and had Nancy be the one to give it to Jonathan without claiming credit for it. We’ll talk more about Jonathan and Steve’s relationship in season 2, but the inferences I’ve gotten from watching the show is, even if they didn’t become best friends, Steve was genuinely trying to be amicable with Jonathan from this point onward.

Then there’s the matter of Barbara and how it impacted Nancy. I think a big reason she went back to Steve when Jonathan wasn’t available was because she needed someone to talk to about what happened, and Steve was the only other person she thought could understand where she was coming from. The first two episodes of season 2, and even tie-in novels like Rebel Robin, all but confirm this, and how it impacted their relationship going forward.

Personally, I’m still not thrilled that Nancy and Steve ended up together at the end of this episode, but I’ll go more into my thoughts about it when I cover season 2.

Part 5: The Party and El

I forgot to talk about Nancy and Mike’s reunion in the last review (sometimes it feels like I’m juggling so many balls in regards to talking about characters, dynamics, plot threads, theories, etc, in each review). Since this episode starts with Mike being worried for Nancy and Jonathan when El tells him they’ve gone after the Demogorgon, now might be a good time to mention I loved their awkward hug in the last episode. Even Mike’s unconvincing “Yeah uh……me too” in regards to missing her was both funny and heartwarming. He may not be good at expressing it openly, but he is concerned for Nancy’s safety, and he likely would have gone running to Will’s house if El had been able to remote-view, saw Nancy and Jonathan there, and told Mike that. Even the conversation they have in the previous episode where they claim they won’t lie to one another anymore………only to lie again about their feelings for El and Jonathan respectively……….they have enough of an understanding of each other to get where the other is coming from.

Mike’s conversation with El prior to Brenner’s arrival feels bittersweet in hindsight. While I’m glad he would later get to dance with El at the Snow Ball in season 2, I’ve always wondered how things would have gone if Mike’s scenario of El coming to live with him at his house had come true. It would have saved El an entire month living in the woods for sure, but we also wouldn’t have gotten the Hopper/El dynamic from season 2 onward (which did feature important character development for Hopper and El) and I question whether this would have made things easier or harder for El. The fact is (as we see in season 4) El was always going to have a hard time adjusting to what a “normal” life would look like, where she’d be expected to go to school, know the same things other kids her age would know, and try to find a way to fit in. I also question what her school situation would have been like. In Lenora, when she was deprived of her powers and still trying to catch up with her peers, she was treated as stupid by the other students and teachers, and got viciously bullied for being an outsider and the weirdo. If she had gone to school in Hawkins, would it have been a similar situation? On the one hand, she would likely still have her powers during Middle School, but she would also be hard-pressed not to use them against bullies unless she wanted to get in serious trouble.

There’s also the question of what would’ve happened if Mike had gone the opposite direction where he'd abandon his family and friends to go on the run with El. I’m thinking about the endings for Let Me In and Let The Right One In (both of which served as inspirations for Stranger Things) where the main protagonist (Owen/Oskar) becomes a fugitive after his vampire friend (Abby/Eli) kills the bullies who planned to drown Owen/Oscar after he split the head bully’s ear open with a metal pole in self-defense. The movies leave their final fates ambiguous, but it would have been an interesting angle to explore with Mike and El had they taken it. How would both of them being forced to run from the Government and Mike’s life being upturned have impacted their relationship going forward?

Speaking of which, let’s talk about Mike’s relationship with El. I’ve seen criticisms regarding how quickly these two fell in love and whether it was rushed. Some of these criticisms have a point whereas others come off as fans misconstruing things.

On the one hand, I agree that a week is a pretty short length of time to truly get to know someone, and there are aspects of El’s life that Mike doesn’t know about yet, and visa versa. I also think age factors in here in that they’re both young, and this is the first time they’ve had a romance like this, which means mistakes were going to happen. That’s also including how both Mike and El didn’t exactly have stable blueprints for a healthy relationship: El spent her entire life up to this point being abused by the other kids at the Lab and groomed by Brenner, to the point she became starved for affection (which Brenner manipulated to his advantage), and Mike is the product of a loveless marriage between his parents and also has his own issues being bullied. Those influences were eventually going to impact how these two moved forward, to the point I’m not surprised there are still problems as of season 4. I’m specifically thinking about the fight Mike and El had after El put Angela in the hospital.

This is why I question whether El coming to live with Mike would have made things better or not. It may have given El a lot more time to adjust compared to her experience in Lenora. And without the year gap where both were pining for one another and then spent the time between seasons 2-3 not wanting to be apart to the point of causing problems, it would have allowed both Mike and El to become familiar enough with one another and their flaws that they wouldn’t have idealized versions of that person in their heads that they both felt like they had to live up to in each other's eyes. That’s also including how El would be surrounded with more friends in Hawkins, which would have given her more of a stable support group than she had in Lenora.

That being said, some of the other takes I’ve seen tearing into this relationship range from being nonsensical to just flat-out untrue (and I question how much of that has been influenced by the shipping wars in this fandom 😒). Like this idea that Mike only ever cared about El because of her powers and being a “superhero,” which not only is debunked in the second episode when he was helping and comforting El way before he ever found out she had powers, but also was explored in season 4 and shown to be untrue there as well. Or the idea that the relationship is shallow and superficial and only based on puppy love because of how they act in season 3 (which I will address when I cover that season, but doesn’t automatically discount the instances of deeper love these two felt for one another that we see this season and afterwards). There’s this fixation these days with portraying the relationship as toxic to an almost comically ludicrous degree, which is an interpretation that involves taking A LOT of things out-of-context. Does the relationship have its problems like any other relationship out there? Yes. What relationship (especially one between two kids) is ever going to be perfect in a Disney “Happily Ever After” way? Does it automatically erase any positive aspects? Hell no.

Mike’s relationship with El led to essential character development for both of them. Not only was Mike allowed to be vulnerable around El without being judged for it (like when she empathized with the bullying he was subjected to under Troy and James), but also allowed Mike to find an inner strength he didn’t realize he had within himself to be able to stand up for his friends and risk his life to keep El safe from both Brenner and the Demogorgon. Likewise, El found someone she could connect with who cared about her as a person, who showed her kindness and affection when she needed it, and who wasn’t going to use her the way Brenner had. That scene at the school where she rejects Brenner as “bad” while calling out for Mike says it all.

Speaking of the school, the fight between the Party, Brenner’s men, and the Demogorgon all feature elements that will make an appearance in season 4. Connie’s death for instance, while satisfying to watch, reminds me of what Vecna did to his victims where their eyes would also bleed.

El doesn’t go to the extent of mutilating Connie and Brenner’s men like Vecna would have, and even though she kills them, I don’t believe she consumed them the way Vecna does. We’ve never gotten any indication that El takes the essence of a person into herself the way Vecna does to give himself more power. I’ll talk about this in later seasons, but in many ways, it makes El more formidable than Vecna in that she’s able to channel an inner strength while keeping her sense of self compared to Vecna who's stolen the essence of others to power himself and has become increasingly unstable as a result.

The Demogorgon’s attack on the school reminds me of the way the Soviet Demogorgon from season 4 attacked its victims: Quick, direct, vicious, and angry. Unlike at Joyce’s house, it’s no longer doing the slow stealth approach now that it’s furious and covered in burns. There is still some degree of control, like when it spares Brenner or even when it confronts the kids in the science classroom and slowly advances on them when they have nowhere else to run, but it’s not playing games anymore.

Then there’s the scene of El dissolving the Demogorgon the same way she dissolved Henry/One/Vecna in 1979:

What I’m curious about is why El’s use of her powers on Vecna didn’t kill him, but banished him to the Upside Down, whereas the use of her powers on the Demogorgon was implied to have destroyed it? And then there’s that particular power itself, which seems to activate on a subconscious level in the most extreme circumstances, and was the biggest indicator that El’s powers were linked to the Upside Down (which The First Shadow confirmed). However, unlike in 1979, where El only created a temporary gate that closed in on itself while she still remained in Hawkins Lab, El’s attack on the Demogorgon results in her being transported to the Upside Down, almost like she’s returning to the source of her power. Was this simply because she was closer to the Demogorgon than she was to Vecna, or does the Upside Down have some kind of pull on individuals who carry its power, and can manipulate that energy into drawing in those individuals connected to it (like El and Vecna)? ). I even question if El truly understood what she was doing in both instances with Vecna and the Demogorgon, or if the remaining power within her took over in these moments and directed her with what she needed to do. Season 4 heavily implies that the Upside Down is almost like a live energy source for Vecna to draw from (hence the vines connected to his back when he uses his powers to kill his victims and create gates). Since El was nearly depleted by the time the Demogorgon showed up (to the point Dustin was having to carry her as they ran), was her being pulled into the Upside Down when she used the last of her strength on the Demogorgon about returning to the source at the direction of the Upside Down without her realizing it?

There’s also the connection with X-Men #134. The comic Will and Dustin raced for in the first episode that also served as foreshadowing for El’s confrontation with the Demogorgon in this episode. In the comic, Jean Grey, having broken free from Mastermind’s control over her, drives Mastermind to insanity by sending his consciousness throughout reality while overloading his brain with all the truths of the universe. However, because of Mastermind’s manipulations, which undermines Jean’s already unbalanced mental state, the Phoenix persona within her has been unleashed, and the comic ends with it taking complete control of Jean. Those who know about X-Men and the Dark Phoenix storyline know that the Phoenix Force was an entity that embodied a dark, raw power that served as the nexus for all psionic energy (i.e. extrasensory perception, telepathy, psychokinesis, etc) that could cause destruction on a grand scale. This entity would bond to Jean Grey as a host, with devastating consequences for the X-Men.

By comparison, while El appears to have control of her powers on the surface, there is an interesting question if the Upside Down exerts some kind of unconscious influence on El in certain instances (like with her confrontation with the Demogorgon and being pulled into the Upside Down). We see something similar with Henry/One/Vecna in The First Shadow with the corrupting influence of the Mind Flayer and the ambiguity regarding instances when Henry was in control vs when it looked like the Mind Flayer was using him as a vessel to exert its power. Could some form of this be happening to El without her awareness?

Finally, there’s El’s fate. Worlds Turned Upside Down reveals that, originally, the Duffer Brothers had planned for El to sacrifice herself, but changed it when they realized the show would go on for longer than one season and they needed El to make the story work.

Like I’ve said before, I believe the Duffer Brothers had material regarding the story and characters that would allow the show to go past one season (and even admitted they had planned out Vecna’s character from the beginning), but they also were working within the parameters of a TV show production, which was contingent on this season being successful for the show to continue onward and explore more of the mythology they had mapped out. Thankfully, it was. It’s why I don’t mind the change regarding El’s survival. The common theme I’ve been trying to convey in these reviews is just because changes happen to characters or plot-related elements doesn’t mean they’re bad. The Duffer Brothers realized there was more to explore with El’s character (just like with Steve) and decided to capitalize on it. I’m glad they did because the mythology surrounding Hawkins Lab and the psychokinetic kids has been one of the biggest draws for me.

Final Thoughts:

Fun fact: That camouflage bandana Lucas wears during these last 3 episodes was at Caleb McLaughlin’s request. I don’t know what the Duffer Brothers told Caleb at the time about Lucas’s family, but considering Charles Sinclair is a Vietnam veteran, and Lucas carries his father’s supplies from that war, it comes off as one more way Lucas is channeling his father, both to honor him and mimic what he thinks his father would do in the situation Lucas is dealing with.

Will’s friends visiting him in the hospital and infodumping everything that happened to them during this season was amusing, and a brief spot of happiness in their reunion. Will was probably grateful they weren’t asking him yet to recount what happened to him in the Upside Down.

I liked seeing the D&D game towards the end of the episode with the Thessalhydra (a monster we may see in season 5 if the vision Vecna showed Nancy of “a giant creature with a big gaping mouth” is anything to go by), and the subtle change of Dustin encouraging Will to fireball the creature instead of advising him to cast a protection spell like last time. It’s subtle, but it shows Dustin has learned that sometime a best defense is a good offense, which is a strategy he will employ in the later seasons.

I know there’s been some speculation about how Joyce could afford to get Will an Atari for Christmas given their financial situation. Considering how everyone believed Will was dead and the strain it put on the Byers, I wouldn’t be surprised if people in Hawkins felt bad for them, and for what they believe Will went through, and sent money to the family as a “We’re sorry you were put through this” donation. It’s also possible the Government may have given her a nice bribe along with the hundreds of documents and NDA’s they forced her to sign to keep quiet.

There’s also this article regarding Will’s disappearance that can be seen at the police station:

Because there’s another news article in season 2 that contradicts what’s being said here, I’ll talk about this when I review that episode. Long story short, I see the contradictions owing more to misinformation being spread about Will’s disappearance (as well as Hopper, Joyce, and Hawkins Lab getting their story straight to cover up what happened) as opposed to a plot-hole. Media gets stuff wrong all the time, and isn’t immune from spouting incorrect information (to say nothing about all the conspiracy nuts out there who muddy the waters).

For song choices, I’m not going to cover the Christmas songs since they’re there to capture the seasonal change, but I will cover the song everyone remembers from this episode: “When it’s Cold I Like to Die” by Moby. This is the song that plays when Hopper and Joyce are trying to resuscitate Will in the Upside Down.

This song also plays in the season 4 finale when Eddie and Max are dying after the Battle at the Creel House. The circumstances there parallel what’s happening in this scene where one life is being saved (Will and Max) while another one dies (Sara in Hopper’s flashback, and Eddie). This song emphasizes a sense of loneliness, loss, and unmistakable grief. In a way, it sounds like a resigned acceptance of the inevitability of death. “I don’t wanna swim the ocean. I don’t wanna fight the tide. I don’t wanna swim forever. When it’s cold, I like to die.” There’s also the theme of letting go of what can’t be controlled in regards to whom death comes for. “If I holler, let me go. If I falter, let me know.” Hopper couldn’t save his daughter from the cancer that killed her, but he can save Will here.

Finally, to end on a more positive note, here’s another Funko Pop that I managed to get my hands on: El’s confrontation with the Demogorgon.

[brionysea]

sleepovers at the byers house are so interesting. when lonnie spends the night before will's funeral, joyce hurries to clarify that he'll be sleeping ON THE COUCH because she knows jonathan will hate him being there. when joyce is dating bob, he's still there in the morning (and presumably Did Not sleep on the couch) and jonathan's like 'the fuck is he still doing here' lmao. trust issues indeed. this boy DOES NOT want people in his fucking house, especially father-shaped people

then there's mike, who joyce TRIES to send away but who ends up in a sleeping bag on will's bedroom floor. and jonathan says that will sleeping over at mike's is normal too. the byers house is very private, very closed off, we don't like people here, go away - but mike finds his way in anyway. and then nancy THINKS her staying there will be a problem, because she's smart and knows this is introvert central (and also she's been hooking up with jonathan at that point, that was so awkward when they had breakfast with murray last time, good BYE), so she sneaks out the window in the morning. but joyce already knows and she's smiling, she's fine with it. will does grumble a bit, though

there's also the fact that those government people came into the byers house to take pictures of will's map in season 2 and jonathan clearly said 'someone else has been here'. this boy seriously HATES PEOPLE IN HIS HOUSE GET OUT OF HIS HOUSE

by contrast, hopper being there is NEVER a problem for ANYONE. and he's there, like, ALL the time

[curiositydoorunlocked]

The Recent News

Spoilers ahead for Stranger Things 5, including photos of actors on set.

Look, something about all this (the leak + the photo situation) feels… fishy, and I can see people in various tags are getting various levels of upset by it. So as someone who has been around the block a couple of times, I want to say something. 

First of all: hi, everyone! I’m glad to be here. I’ve been a fan of ST since early-mid 2020 and involved in the fandom since mid-late 2020 (on other accounts, which have since been deleted), so I feel at least marginally qualified to say what I’m going to say. That being said, I drifted away from the fandom before S5 filming began and haven't watched the show in a while; if I get anything wrong please feel free to correct me.

First I want to talk about Bridgerton S3. I closely followed that production in 2022 and 2023. Like Stranger Things, Bridgerton is a high-budget Netflix original show with a large cast, lots of public interest, an active fandom, and what I would call "special considerations" for filming. (In Bridgerton's case it's the historical element; in ST it's the sci-fi/fantasy element plus the historical element, albeit to a lesser degree.) They filmed for a shorter period of time than ST5 is expected to film for, yes, but many of the circumstances are/were similar. That brings me to my point: when Bridgerton S3 was filming, the best we got from the main cast was a handful of photos a) taken from relatively far away that b) did not spoil anything major. Luckily for us, the photos were clear, but in the end they didn't really amount to anything more than eye candy, something to get excited over.

In contrast, these photos from the ST5 set are clear, close, and most importantly reveal seemingly significant story beats/results. (Okay, the Mike and Hopper one isn't super close or clear, I'll give ya that. But it's still pretty damn close for a set that's supposedly locked down! Especially if they're filming a scene possibly related to a major character's death/disappearance!) Kinda odd, right? I'm not necessarily saying they were leaked on purpose to misdirect fans, because I'm not that confident in myself. I don’t have any insider/industry knowledge; I can only claim a healthy (perhaps too healthy?) level of skepticism. But I do want to put that possibility out there, because I think it’s an important one to consider.

“But wait,” you might say, “many parts of S4 were leaked, and leaked accurately at that. What’s to say these aren’t real too?”

That’s a fair point! Maybe production hasn’t learned their lesson from S4; maybe they’re truly terrible at preventing leaks and that’s the end of the story. Yes, they’ve spoken a little about security measures in the lead-up to S5 but that doesn’t mean those security measures were implemented well, or even at all.

Even keeping that in mind, I nonetheless implore everyone to chill the hell out. I say this again, with so much love: CHILL THE HELL OUT. This has happened before: even with the accurate leaks and clear photos we got during S4 filming, we lacked so much context. Mike and El’s “I love you” scene is a great example of this. There was quite the brouhaha over that leak in certain corners of the fandom… and yet the actual scene turned out nothing like the phrase “Mike finally says ‘I love you’ to El” implies. Another example are these photos (see above; my apologies for the poor quality!) of the Hawkins group in the parking lot of The War Zone. When those photos were leaked, I recall speculation that the scene would appear at the very end of the finale, that it related to an apocalypse situation, and so on, but not so! In the show it appeared before the final battle with Vecna: the town was in a panic, yeah, but no apocalypse.

That’s what I mean about chilling the hell out. We can’t assume the photos/leaks are genuine—and even if we did indulge that assumption (which is fair given production’s history!) we can’t assume we have the whole story.

Hang in there, folks. We survived S4 production and we’ll survive S5 production too :)

TL;DR: Hi, I’m new and also not new here. I made this account just to talk about this photo/leak situation because that’s how passionate I am about this godforsaken show. This is a little weird, but whether the leaks/photos are real or planted, stay calm. We know so little right now. Don’t waste your energy on blind panic, not when we still have another year(ish) to go.

[carolperkinsexgirlfriend]

Steddie Upside-Down AU Part 98

Part 1 Part 97

It’s fucked up, but Steve’s never been happier. He’s not sure how much of it’s the drugs, and how much is the relief, but it sits like a weight on his chest that he never wants to shake off.

There’s a constant stream of visitors. Ms. Byers, who’s taken to cupping her cool hands around his face and kissing his forehead each time. Uncle Wayne, who’s calluses are starting to become as familiar as Edde’s to the skin of Steve’s palms.

Barbara and Carol, attached at the hip in a way he can’t parse. He doesn’t think he was gone that long. How did this happen? But he knows that flirty smile, knows what his best friend’s fingers trailing over Barbara’s shoulders means.

Tommy doesn’t come. It shouldn’t hurt, but – But. Something inside him tightens and contracts. It might just be his heart.

Jonathan and Nancy come together. Jonathan’s bubbling over with apologies, contrite in contrast to Nancy’s fuming.

“You should have called me,” she says, curly hair practically raising with the power of her ire. “I could have helped.”

From his seat by Steve’s side, Eddie huffs and puffs and barely holds back his yell. He doesn’t see the way her fists are curled, can’t see past the veneer of control that hides the worry behind it.

“I was possessed, Nance,” Steve replies, smiling up at her. His face hurts with all the smiling. “I didn’t even know who you were.”

She sputters and stalls while Jonathan stands beside her, shooting worried looks out of the corner of his eyes.

He can almost feel the hole they’d left in his brain. The shape of their outlines at high school parties and in line at the cafeteria. Nancy’s firmly raised hand, Jonathan’s slumped shoulders. It’s filled now.

He wants to fill it with more memories, so many that the bad ones just shake loose.

“Oh, alright,” she huffs, settling down on the other side of the bed, far away from Eddie’s twitching fingers. “But that won’t work as an excuse next time.”

The kids are easy; they come in a pile, stacking against each other in his room’s doorway until Dustin comes pouring in, everyone else after him. They all crowd onto his bed with no regard to his personal space. Even Mike slinks onto the end to sit with sullen shoulders and shining eyes. 

They’re like puppies, yapping over each other for his and Eddie’s attention. Will’s planning a new campaign, and his eyes light up when Steve agrees to play.

Chief Hopper comes next with a girl hiding behind his back, clutching onto the hanging lapel of his jacket. Her head peaks out behind him, curls springing wildly from her scalp as she smiles shyly at Steve. 

“I know you,” Steve says.

The chief huffs, as the beams, and says her part in their little play, “I found you.”

Steve shuffles up in his bed, not looking as he feels Eddie prop up pillows behind his back. He holds his arms out and open, waiting even as his muscles begin to strain. 

She shuffles out from behind Chief Hopper, head down as she climbs onto the edge of his bed, butting her forehead against his chest like a cat. He puts his arms around her, slow as he feels what he’s come to find out are burns of varying degrees. No one will tell him what they’re from, but Carol had looked especially shifty when she’d witnessed the bandages being changed. He elected not to ask.

The girl doesn’t put her own arms around him, just lets her hands settle into her own lap and leans in. 

“You really are a supergirl, huh?” Steve asks, reaching his hand up to play with her curls. His splinted finger knocks against her skull once before he holds it back as best he can. 

She leans back to beam up at him, eyes alight. “You can call me El”.

They probably both look stupid, smiling at each other, one of them all banged up, the other in what must be Chief Hopper’s cast-offs. 

Hopper clears his throat when the silence lingers. He stomps in his clunky work boots over to the seat beside Eddie and sinks down, almost reclining into it despite its straight back. Eddie curls away from him, glaring at the man like he’s got a live grenade. 

Or like he’s been searched for drugs before and doesn’t want the fuzz to be sniffing around. Steve laughs, loopy and pleased while they both look at him with the same furrowed brows and worried frowns.

“You alright, kid?” Hopper asks gruffly, reaching out to put his meaty hand on Steve’s shoulder.

Steve winces, feels the bandages pull until Hopper drops his hand. 

“Did you know she was real?” Steve asks, reaching out to pull one of El’s bounciest curls atop her head. It all goes straight and taught and then bounces back into place.

Hopper snorts. “Where do you think she’s been living?”

“Oh,” he replies. 

His brains clicking in his skull, weighed down by morphine and too much sleep, but when his gaze flickers around the room, he recognizes the awkward grimace on Eddie’s lips.

“You knew,” Steve accuses, finger pointed toward Eddie’s face, to emphasize who he’s accusing. His finger shakes unsteadily until Eddie snatches it out of the air and pops it into his own mouth to bite down. “Ow, what the fuck?”

Eddie’s dimples pop around it as he nibbles into the knuckle one more time before letting go with a suctioning pop. “Don’t be mad, Stevie,” he weedles, looking up at Steve through his lashes with wide, innocent eyes, even as his prominent dimples give away his amusement.

“Why didn’t you tell me?” 

Steve’s slightly damp finger flicks Eddie’s nose until he hisses and snatches Steve’s hand to interlace their fingers with a shrug. “I thought it would be funny.”

It’s hard to hold a grudge when El giggles, light and airy as it breathes life into the room.

“He’s got you there, kid,” Hopper replies, reaching out again, this time to ruffle El’s hair. 

Steve huffs, “whatever, man,” but his lips are little traitors and they can’t stop from turning up at the corners. “See if I introduce you to the next superhero we meet.”

Eddie squeezes his hand, familiar callouses scraping against Steve’s palm. “You’ll introduce me, Stevie.” he replies. Steve closes his eyes as he feels warm lips on the back of his hand. “You love me too much.”

Steve closes his eyes against the feeling, still smiling even as his healing skin pulls, and his finger feels unwieldy and wrong, and his head aches and floats up toward the ceiling. 

Yeah, he really does. 

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Part 99