#morrigan cassandra and jack bioware for the ladies

[trisexyual]

rb and respond with your top unromanceable video game character/s that you think should have been romanceable

[theblackrivergame]

I read back through and realized you said Bioware games in general, but I'm still very interested in who they would romance (I have ME on the brain right now because of the remaster)

(For context here anon sent a previous message just saying they were curious about the Mass Effect stuff I mentioned)

No worries, anon! I totally understand Mass Effect being on the brain at all times lmfao. As I said this will be pretty long so I’ll put it under the cut; also to clarify for ease-of-use purposes all of the Bioware characters are bi except for the ones who are confirmed gay, and there’s an enby play-gender option XD

Annos – Mass Effect Trilogy: Garrus. Yes, even in ME1. Accept no substitutes. Dragon Age Origins: Alistair. Dragon Age 2: Isabela. Dragon Age Inquisition: Dorian… although he remains deeply committed to Alistair. Mass Effect Andromeda: Gil, in some parallel dimension where his romance wasn’t hijacked by Jill.

Gervaise – Mass Effect Trilogy: Liara, all the way through… although if Legion was available they’d probably have switched to him. Dragon Age Origins: Leliana. Dragon Age 2: Fenris. Dragon Age Inquisition: Blackwall. Mass Effect Andromeda: Entirely swept off their feet by Reyes. Whoever they originally intended to romance was completely forgotten once they met him.

Ia – Mass Effect Trilogy: Ash, followed by Garrus. Dragon Age Origins: Zevran, every single time. Dragon Age 2: Isabela or Anders, depending on their class choice. Dragon Age Inquisition: The Iron Bull, or sometimes Solas if they’re feeling melodramatic. Mass Effect Andromeda: Liam or Peebee, they like both.

Kebisa – Mass Effect Trilogy: Kaidan, all the way through. Dragon Age Origins: she deliberately plays a Cousland rogue specifically so that she can romance Alistair and be his queen. Dragon Age 2: Merrill. Dragon Age Inquisition: Josephine, without a doubt. Mass Effect Andromeda: Vetra, although she shares my fondness for Sarissa Theris.

Namsun – Mass Effect Trilogy: Tali, though they romanced Liara in ME1. Dragon Age Origins: they play an Aeducan dwarf in a relationship with Gorim and go back to him at the end. Dragon Age 2: Merrill. Dragon Age Inquisition: they originally fell for Solas and ended up getting mad later and reloading to romance Cassandra instead. Mass Effect Andromeda: I’m going to say that they spend the whole game pining after Evfra… just like me. Though they really like Vetra and Jaal… sometimes it’s just hard to find a Perfect Fit though.

Our Lady – Mass Effect Trilogy: Liara in ME1, followed by an abrupt switch to Miranda for ME2 and 3. Dragon Age Origins: Zevran or Morrigan. Dragon Age 2: Fenris. Dragon Age Inquisition: she joins me in being deeply upset by the fact that Abelas isn’t romanceable, but will settle for Blackwall or Cassandra. Mass Effect Andromeda: Suvi.

Tehemia – Mass Effect Trilogy: Thane, although they also really like Samara. They’re miffed that neither is a proper romance choice for ME3. Dragon Age Origins: Zevran or Leliana depending on their mood. But also Tamlen. Dragon Age 2: Isabela. Dragon Age Inquisition: Cassandra or Sera. Mass Effect Andromeda: Jaal 100%.

Vanator – Mass Effect Trilogy: He probably romanced Kaidan in ME1 but he switched to Jack without a moment’s hesitation the second he met her. Dragon Age Origins: Zevran. Dragon Age 2: Fenris. Dragon Age Inquisition: He oscillates between Dorian and Cullen. Mass Effect Andromeda: Vetra, but he would switch to Evfra or Kandros if either was available (also like me).

Now, obviously the aro and aroace characters are slightly different. I know that aro people irl sometimes play through the romance mechanics of games for any number of reasons, but when we’re talking strictly about who the ROs WANT to romance, the answer for aromantic people is clearly nobody. While both series do have some non-romantic 18+ scenes that the alloaro characters (Barthelemy and Luminita) would probably participate in, those scenes can skirt the boundary of leading into a romance sometimes, so for all the aro characters I’ll instead give their favourite characters and people that they like to have in their squad.

Barthelemy - Mass Effect Trilogy: Wrex and Grunt. Even Wreav in some playthroughs. He just likes the krogan. Dragon Age Origins: he takes the mabari everywhere with him to cut down on chatter. Dragon Age 2: Varric managed to crack his shell and become his best bud. Dragon Age Inquisition: Varric again, but he also thinks Vivienne is the best thing since sliced bread. He especially likes the parts where she gives Solas shit for things. Mass Effect Andromeda: Drack, of course.

Dassine - Mass Effect Trilogy: She loves Kasumi and Samara, but wherever possible she meticulously balances her party in terms of power for each particular mission. Dragon Age Origins: She LOVES the mabari, but she also likes Morrigan and Leliana. Dragon Age 2: depends on her class; she programs in very specific tactics with special exploits set up based on who she takes with her. Her favourites are Merrill and Bethany, though. Dragon Age Inquisition: She loves Vivienne, as well as Cole and Cassandra. Mass Effect Andromeda: Drack and Jaal are her favourites.

Luminita - Mass Effect Trilogy: She’s absolutely ride-or-die best friends with Garrus and Tali. All the way, every single game. Dragon Age Origins: she switches around a lot, but she thinks Leliana and Sten are the most reliable for gameplay advantages (Leliana can actually open locks). Dragon Age 2: She likes Fenris and Varric, but enjoys Aveline’s aesthetic. Dragon Age Inquisition: Best friends with Cassandra. Has heard from someone there might be other characters, but can’t personally confirm. Mass Effect Andromeda: Cora and Vetra.

Soillere - Mass Effect Trilogy: he wanted to keep both Ash and Kaidan forever and was gutted in ME1 when he had to leave one behind; Garrus took Kaidan’s place in his squad after that. Dragon Age Origins: it’s him, Alistair, a drunken dwarf and a dog against the world! Dragon Age 2: he swaps around a LOT to avoid conflict, but his favourite is Varric. Dragon Age Inquisition: He likes to have Dorian and Blackwall with him, but he loves Sera too. Mass Effect Andromeda: Drack and Liam. Liam’s upside-down loyalty quest was his favourite part of the game... he loves Reyes too though.

[ir0n-angel]

I'll give you a chance to get on your soapbox. 7 from the Fanfic Questions? *sends you smacking kissy noises*

7. List your NoTPs from each fandom you’ve been in.

Oh, yeah, soapbox time indeed. This might take a minute.

Straight off the starting line: ANY incest ships. No, nuh-uh, nein, non, nee, ei, nei, and in 30 other languages NO.

Now that that’s out of the way, let’s see how many followers I can lose...

Disney’s Gargoyles: Elisa Maza/anyone else. If ever there was a story of soulmates finding each other and growing together in a show, Elisa and Goliath would be the pinnacle. I seriously dislike the one moment Jason Canmore kissed Elisa in the “Hunter’s Moon” 3-part. Y’all build up Elisa’s and Goliath’s relationship for 65 episodes (you wanna talk slow burn) to do this?! It worked out in the end of the story arc, but still... Even at age 15, I took serious issue with it.

Fruits Basket: Kyou/Yuki. Let those boys hate each other in peace. Not all tension is sexual tension, folks.

Fallout 4: Oh, there’s a lot of them. Basically, the Fallout universe is a dumpster fire of really unhealthy characters with bad coping mechanisms. I have arguments against a lot of pairings for reasons too numerous to list, but the one that really gets under my skin is Jack Cabot/Edward Deegan. Sorry not sorry, but the way Jack treats Deegan at all points of the Cabot House quests is at best callous and at worst abusive. In this essay, I will--

Dragon Age games: Combining the previous two issues above, Varric/Cassandra. I love Cassandra; I feel robbed that Bioware won’t let me have a lesbian romance with the Lady Seeker. But Cassandra’s treatment of Varric is canonically physically abusive, and again, not all tension is sexual. (Also, I might kinda sorta be in the Varric/Hawke camp, so... yeah.) I don’t like Alistair/Morrigan. I can’t really get behind Solas/human!Inquisitior. I struggle with Cullen/mage!Inquisitor. And I will fight you on any Dorian/female!Inquisitor (we finally have a proper gay character, so don’t you even dare!).

Transformers: Megatron/Starscream. I really don’t understand some of y’all, but y’all do you, boo. I, however, have been here since Gen1 and will never understand this ship.

There’s plenty of others I have strong opinions on, but these are the ones that I can remember off the top of my head. Cliffnotes version: You can pretty much count on me disliking any ship that the characters are hateful and/or abusive towards each other in canon. Fanfic is a wonderful medium for people to expand/correct/fantasize about your favorite fandom characters, and I make sure to donate to AO3 every fundraising drive. But I reserve my right to block out everything that I dislike and disagree with.

Thank you for the Ask! *hugs and kitty-kisses*

[mine-feels]

The ladies of Bioware; Morrigan, Jack, Cassandra and Miranda in The Sims 4. (WIP)

[werankladies]

Bioware Ladies Ranked by How Bullshit It Is You Can't Romance Them As A Female Character

1. Tali’Zorah Vas Normandy – Tali is so obviously into FemShep that it’s not even funny. The only possible excuse for this one is that they’re mutually pining for each other and too scared of rejection to see it through (which would be out of character for Shepard regardless of how you play her, so nah). Additionally, I am forever salty that someone who’s just so damn cute can’t be smooched as a Lady.

2. Cassandra Pentaghast – Have you seen her haircut? Her muscles? God damn.

3. Morrigan – Morrigan’s open and absolute distaste for men is such an overwhelming sign of lesbianism that it makes me question what the writers for Dragon Age were even thinking when they made her character. Were they thinking? I have my doubts.

4. Jack – Jack literally admits to having had past romantic and/or sexual encounters with both men and women, so it makes zero% sense that FemShep can’t romance her.

5. Bastila Shan – Bastila and KOTOR’s protag are quite literally soul mates. I really don’t need to say anything else.

6. Dawn Star – “Childhood Friends Having a Crush on Each Other and Growing Up To Explore Those Feelings, But Lesbians” would have made such a good arc, y’all.

7. Miranda Lawson – Other people have made this point before but it’s still valid so it’s unrealistic that the “genetically-engineered-to-be-perfect human being” would be straight (or British, for that matter).

8. Cora Harper – I think there’s a fan comic or something floating around out there about this but you Do Not roll with Asari commandos and come out the other side completely straight.

9. Ashley Williams – I can’t really think of any reasons why Ashley should be romanceable as FemShep other than that you can’t be straight in space, but that’s still pretty compelling.

10. EDI – I actually kind of understand not being able to romance EDI, and in fact I’m happy for her and Joker. That said, I’m still upset on principle alone that I don’t get to smooch a Robot Lady.

[n04s]

its too bad bioware didnt realize that morrigan, jack, cassandra, and uhh that one blonde lady in andromeda all liked girls :/

[mulattafury]

Okay so I said some nice things about mass effect yesterday, here's my critical one: Bioware, did a lesbian kill your father or something? I believe I'm owed an explanation for Suvi. I mean, I like the other lady romance options for Fryder, but the one Fryder-only female romance's first words to you out of her bubblegum pink glossed lips are "ISN'T GOD GREAT?? YOU BELIEVE IN GOD, RIGHT??" While my square-stanced undercut-sporting vaguely handsome ASARI COMMANDO lady squad mate is dudes only??? mass effect has some incredible lady characters, but I don't like playing male characters when I don't have to and frankly a lot of the mshep romances seemed kinda creepy and exploitative to me. Tali's infatuation with Shepard, or Miranda's slow-building respect of her, could have been awesome romance arcs. Having a slow-burn romance with Ash like mshep apparently gets to have with Kaiden would have been hella satisfying. And then there's all the kinda... very gay-coded female characters that are pointedly straight like they're heroically defying stereotypes or whatever. Like Jack, and Cora, and while we're on the subject Cassandra and Morrigan Traynor was pretty great, and the bisexual female romances are usually quality (I love Liara and Leliana and Isabella and Josephine and Vetra is stealing all of my heart) but there's just something kinda... hmm, when you get characters like Suvi and Sera. Bioware does a great job with girl characters when they're not trying too hard, but when they do it gets gross fast Honestly if gay and lesbian romances weren't so starved for positive representation I'd say the solution is to make all in game romances "player-sexual" and call it done. But unfortunately that isn't the case, and unfortunately it seems like this is an area where the writing could really use some work

[priestessamy]

Why is Tumblr so upset about that one Mass Effect character having vaguely gay hair but not actually being gay? I feel like I missed crucial explanation for this

Hopefully you don’t mind me answering this publicly. If not, please just let me know and I’ll take this down.

So! The thing about Bioware is that it makes... weird decisions when it comes to romance. They attempt to restrict certain characters to very specific prescribed sexualities, and they don’t aaaaalways make sense?

I can’t think of a single reason Tali couldn’t have been romanceable as FemShep (and indeed as any Shepard as early as ME1 because I was in love with her immediately).

Morrigan was weirdly obsessed with motherhood and having a baby and whatever, even though I’m fairly certain there were plenty of girls who had major crushes on her from day one.

Kaiden was ‘suddenly’ bi in the third game, but it’s not like there was some kind of story arc to talk about, I don’t know, him working through his expanding sexuality.

Never mind that lots of characters willingly fuck outside their own race/species but not their own gender.  

But, to the question you actually asked me. The issue with these characters (and I get that it seems like silly Tumblr bullshit, and it kinda is, but there is something insidious below the surface here) is that they were coded as queer. A lot of the characters that are exclusively gay in Mass Effect are very weirdly coded as more in line with gender norms. Traynor, Cortez, Dorian... I mean, Sera’s the only real exception there, and even then that’s because I always think of her more because of the way she acted and that voice than her look.

But look at the three in question here. Jack is bald (or with the arguably gayer cut in 3), tatted all to hell, wearing “This is for me, not you” straps over her tits. I get her only wanted to date renegades, that makes sense. But I just can’t look at her and think “yeah, she seems exclusively interested in men”.

Cassandra is a little bit looser in my mind, and I don’t know her as well because I’m not super familiar with her in Inquisition. But she is a badass warrior lady with a pixie haircut and a seemingly permanent scowl from everything I have seen. And while I certainly don’t object to her being with a male character, it seems ridiculous that a woman like that isn’t also into other women.

And with the most recent addition, Cora (that undercut, those combat skills, she worked with an asari unit for christs sake!!!), it only gets more obvious that something.... weird is going on. And I think that’s the real problem. It’s not that there’s some grand conspiracy at Bioware to make a bunch of queercoded women and then make them totally unromanceable by women. It’s that...

Well, there’s this bizarre thing when people make characters, and this seems to be a prime example. If someone is gay, they have to be traditionally gorgeous, sexy, well-dressed, whatever. If you make a gay character who has non-heteronormative facets, there’s this terrifying shadow from the 90s that says you’re being a horrible stereotyper and the feminists and the queers will jump on you and call you a bigot.

Ironically, in an attempt to avoid creating bad characters, they have deprived us of good characters. The prevailing assumption is that there are already too many butch gay/bi women out there. But the problem is that everyone is saying that and no one is actually creating any, so we end up with this 1984 situation. We keep getting told that there are too many butch women, we’re overflowing with butch women, that they’re an insulting caricature. And yet... there are like... none. The worst part is that we want them too! Gamers at the ground level (and really people who partake in any kind of media) who want a super-gay, really obviously coded, unapologetic gay lady to sweep us off our feet and romance us. That’s why so many girls saw Cora, crossed their fingers, and are now livid that only Scott “The Boy One” Ryder can romance her.

And again, I’m not even saying they have to make them raging gays either. They can be bi or pan or whatever, just something! It’s the... I dunno, the removal of possibility that I think makes so many people upset.

Whoops, that ended up being way longer than I intended. That’s my theory, anyway. Could be I missed something or had a few facts off. Please lemme know if I screwed up somewhere!

[ageofdragon]

Question time! So I agree that it's really shitty when people make bi Dorian, because it erases part of who he is as a person. My question is: why is it not the same with Cullen? A character who, in canon (the final, released game), is straight, and that's who he is as a person? Not trying to fight, I'm just trying to understand the difference. Thanks if you take the time to answer! :)

Two things actually. And for reference as you go through this post, I am pansexual.

First, Cullen was meant to bisexual. His writer wrote his entire character with this intent, start to finish. It was on the animation floor that his bisexual romance got dropped, his animator apologized because his Male Inquisitor animation didn’t get finished by the deadline and so Bioware just handwaved him as straight.

But Cullen remains queer-coded, there are still cues and conversations he can have with a Male Inquisitor that imply he is bisexual. Same goes for characters like Jack (from Mass Effect 2), who is only a straight romance, but specifically has dialogue admitting to bisexuality.

*Queer-coding: When writers hint that a character is queer or lgbt+ without explicitly saying so.

Second thing, I’m going to start by linking a post that talks about why changing non-marginalized characters is different than changing marginalized characters.

Then I’m going to talk long and hard about representation and queer history. See I’m 22, I was born in the 90s and I can tell you that good mainstream representation of queer characters is a NEW thing.

It is only within my late teens to now that we have had games as extensive and inclusively positive as Dragon Age and Bioware’s other games. Bioware’s first lesbian and lgbt+ romance appeared in 2003, a Cathar from Star Wars.

2003.

More than a decade ago, but really not that long for someone who spent half their life without representation and half with (and the half without being developmental years, when it could have really be useful and needed). And the romance was so subtle, almost hidden to a point. But it was there and that was something that set the tone for the rest of Bioware’s games: Jade Empire, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age.

Before this, representation for us meant swallowing outrageous and insulting jokes and depictions for our representation. A lot of childhood villains are queer-coded, characters you weren’t supposed to like or relate to and yet we did.

Characters like Him from the Powderpuff girls, the Riddler and Poison Ivy from Batman, Scar from the Lion King, Ursala from The Little Mermaid,  and Jafar from Aladdin. All characters knows for their extravagance and eccentricities, all stereotypes for queer people.

Hell we have Steven Universe now, a bunch of non-binary, PoC, openly queer characters targeted at children and yet it still almost one of a kind. How awesome is that and dang there should be MORE!

The point I’m trying to make, is there is a history of “straight” characters being turned queer and lgbt+ in fandoms, not only for women’s freedom, but for lgbt+ freedom as well and it seems we are forgetting that.

DON’T

Not only because it is an important part of history, but with how the world is suddenly moving backwards for our community we may need to hold onto this for longer.

Now back to Cullen, you might say “but you already have lgbt+ characters in the game”. You’re absolutely right, we do and yes, I believe as we see more representation we should be able lean off of making other characters for us. However, there is still a ways to go.

Dragon Age and Bioware, for all its progressiveness is still not to the point of excellency.

“But it may never be exactly what you want”

No, maybe not. But I’m going to hold them to the same standard they meet for their straight romances. Because here’s the thing, despite the lgbt+ characters Bioware gives us, until Dragon Age Inquisition’s Lady Josephine Montilyet, Bioware was still sticking to the old queer-coded villain stereotypes.

The Assassin. The Bard. The Radical Apostate. The Blood Elf. The Slave. The Pirate. Even The Evil Magister. And Qunari Spy. While Sera is a whole mess all of her own (Racist, Selfish, Robin Hood?)

While the straights got The Holy Knightly Knights (Cassandra, Alistair, Sebastian, and Cullen), with Blackwall almost leaning into that trope if not for his big reveal and Solas being an outlier only because Weekes wanted to make it so. While Morrigan was meant to be lgbt+ as well and ended up for straights only.

If you even want to go back to their earliest attempt, that Cathar I was talking about? Was a Sith discipline, that only fell to the Light Side if you pushed.

So yeah, we’ve come far, but there is still a lot to be desired when it comes to seeing ourselves outside Those tropes. 

Besides (like in the linked post) it doesn’t hurt the straights if we take some of their characters, they can look at almost any other character and see themselves validated (aka: heterophobia is NOT a thing). We take Cullen and they have three more in Dragon Age Inquisition alone. But take away Dorian (homophobia and erasure, congrats bigots) and point me to the other gay character? At best you point me to Sera, which see above and at worst you flounder about before pointing me to the bisexual or pansexual and let me say it now.

That Is Not The Same Thing

Being lgbt+ is something, but the individual sexualities in our community are NOT a stand in for one another. Which is why bioware’s 4 straights and 4 lgbt+ didn’t go over well. Lumping us together is not the same as here are the many straights represented and then you lgbt+ members can pick 1 out of 4 for yourself.

tldr; Saying Cullen is bisexual is NOT the same as saying Dorian is bisexual, and frankly I don’t think it ever will be.

More Reading

My “Opinion” on this Matter and more links (including the one above)