#plot relevant things and how things connect to s5 and such

[hawkinslibrary]

there's a new article out about the play. i think it's paywalled for people outside of the us, so here's a twitter thread with screenshots. i've also typed it all out under the cut here:

LONDON – Next month, the Upside Down extends its tentacles into London’s West End with “Stranger Things: The First Shadow,” a prequel stage production that expands the world of Netflix’s sci-fi/horror blockbuster. 

And the creative team behind it hopes the play will be as groundbreaking as the series itself.  

“We’re about to bring the actors, who’ve just been in this cocoon of a rehearsal room for seven weeks, into [the theater],” producer Sonia Friedman says of “The First Shadow,” which is set to open Noc. 17 at the Phoenix Theatre. “We’ve been making sure it can stand alone without the special effects, because it’s all about story. We are going to blow people’s minds. We are going to terrify with some of the most startling, extraordinary things with the physical production.” 

The project originated with director Stephen Daldry, who approached Netflix’s then-content chief Cindy Holland after the show’s first season aired.  

“One of the conversations Stephen and I had been having was, ‘What theater have we ever seen where you get genuinely scared?’” Daldry’s co-director Justin Martin says. “It was an interesting challenge and provocation. We talked about other [Netflix] titles, but this one felt like the most imaginative and the most challenging to try and find a stage language for.” 

“The goal was to figure out, what does a mega episode of ‘Stranger Things’ look like on stage?” adds Matt Duffer, who created the series with brother Ross. “It was a very long, multi-year process to figure that out. But where they’ve landed is incredibly exciting.” 

For the Duffers, the idea of expanding the “Stranger Things” universe in new forms was an exciting prospect. They're currently working on several spinoff shows, including a children’s animated series and an anime series. The play exists on its own, but it also informs the narrative and characters fans know.  

“The idea was to explore Henry Creel and his backstory and fill in a gap that we don’t explore in Season 4,” Ross Duffer says of the villain also known as Vecna. “The play was being developed simultaneously with us writing Season 4 so we were adjusting as we went. It was an interesting way to develop a story, but to do it concurrently like that made sure everything locks in mythology-wise.” 

Development on “The First Shadow” began during Season 2. Daldry approached Friedman after seeing the magic and spectacle in her company’s production of “Harry Potter and the Cursed Child” at London’s Palace Theatre. The creative team spent time brainstorming the story during the early months of the pandemic with screenwriter Jack Thorne, but eventually decided they needed someone who knew the series intimately. 

Kate Trefry, a writer on “Stranger Things” since Season 2, was an obvious choice for Daldry, despite the fact that she’d never written a play before.  

“Season 2 is really when we started to expand this world and mythology,” Ross Duffer says. “So Kate knows that as well as us. She's been with us in the trenches for so many years that we were so happy that she had this opportunity to do this.” 

From early on, no one wanted to simply remake the first season. Daldry wanted the story to be what Martin calls “in the center of the conversation,” rather than a secondary narrative, so a prequel made the most sense. 

“When we met with Stephen we had just cracked this Henry Creel stuff in the writers room,” Ross Duffer says. “We said, ‘Well there might be an opening here.’ And Stephen really fell in love with it.” 

“There are questions of ‘Why Hawkins?’ and ‘How did all this stuff happen?’” Martin adds, referring to the show’s fictional Indiana town, which becomes a hotbed of supernatural activity. “This felt like a good way to address that.”  

“The First Shadow,” set in Hawkins in 1959, is told over two chapters. Several familiar characters appear, including Bob Newby, Joyce Maldonado and Jim Hopper, who are in their last year of high school when a new student named Henry Creel arrives. Nearby, Dr. Brenner is getting his start in his lab. There are also new characters, like Bob’s sister Patty Newby. Trefry calls it an ensemble play with Henry Creel as the “spine” of the story. Beyond that, everyone involved is as tight-lipped about the plot as they are about the forthcoming grand finale of the Netflix original. 

“It’s about outsider kids who come together to solve a mystery,” Martin says. “And in doing so find themselves and each other. That's really ultimately what ‘Stranger Things’” does so well and why so many people connect with it.” 

Trefry adds that it’s also “about the loss of innocence and coming of age and how you are changed and ruined and saved by these formative events that happened in high school.” 

“So, hopefully, you’ll see that Hopper and Joyce and Bob are all presenting echoes of the trauma that is at the center of this play,” she says. 

In the first season of “Stranger Things,” Joyce, Bob and Hopper seem surprised by what’s going on in Hawkins. But Trefry confirms there’s an explanation for why they don’t immediately connect it to their high school years.  

“The climactic events that happen within these two stage episodes had to be something that could be written off as not magical or science fiction,” she says. “It had to be spectacular and make sense, but we had to go forward in honesty with our characters.” 

As a TV series, “Stranger Things” has a recognizable aesthetic. The Upside Down and its monsters are familiar to viewers, so a stage version needed to incorporates similar visuals.  

Because Trefry had never written a play, she didn’t worry about whether certain effects or scenes would be possible, which upped the ante for everyone included.  

“She cross-cut scenes as she would in the show and wrote crazy visual effects sequences as she would in the show,” Matt Duffer says. “She wasn’t limited by that because it then just presented a challenge for Stephen to solve, which is fun. The opening sequence of the play -- I don’t think anyone even knew if it was possible. I'm still not sure how they’re doing it.” 

Friedman and Daldry put together a notably skilled creative team. Friedman set the bar high from the outset, telling them, “I need to be taken to a new dimension of what is possible with theater.” 

That team includes illusions design and visual effects artists Jamie Harrison and Chris Fisher, who are responsible for the onstage magic in “Harry Potter and the Cursed Child.” Harrison and Fisher spent nearly a year coming up with the effects in “The First Shadow” and have continues perfecting things during rehearsals. 

“It’s very pressurized because there is nothing worse than a bad effect because the audience knows straight away,” Harrison says. “We have to go through quite a lot of watching our work be quite bumpy before it gets smooth. And we have to bring the actors from zero magic skill to being very expert in a condensed period of time.” 

“When you have the world of ‘Stranger Things,’ people know it,” Fisher adds. “They have those big sequences, so we naturally are creating big sequences. We’ve pushed it and I think by us pushing, the directors and Kate have pushed us even more and said, ‘Now we know you can do that, we want this.’” 

As a series “Stranger Things” relies on CGI alongside practical effects, but onstage everything has to be done for real. 59 Productions are creating the video design and visual effects for the play, which will work in tandem with the illusions and Miriam Buether’s set design. Harrison says that “anything that can be achieved in film can be achieved in theater.” 

“In film, people want absolute reality,” Harrison says. “For the effects to be visually real. In the theater, we have a level of imagination that we can use as well. For example, in the piece we’re creating there are a lot more blood and guts.” 

Trefry adds that the stage show is genuinely terrifying. “It’s scary like ‘Stranger Things’ is scary,” she says. “There’s a little bit of like guts and gore, and then there’s also real trauma – people dealing with real stuff.” 

Other elements of the production will hint at the series as well. For instance, Harrison and Fisher met with the creature designer from the series during their design process to ensure “visual continuity,” although they won’t say which creatures appear in the play. And D.J. Walde’s original music recreates the familiar synth theme song with a theremin that matches the late 1950s setting.  

For the Duffers, bringing the “Stranger Things” universe to life on stage satisfies their love of practical effects.  

“The downside of CGI is that the audience is conditioned to the fact that we can basically do anything,” Matt Duffer says. “But there’s something about seeing it actually done. When I saw ‘Cursed Child,’ my jaw was dropping in a way it rarely does now with these big movies. We want to do the same here.” 

Because Trefry wrote the play while Season 4 was in development, the series’ writers were able to retrofit elements of that season to reflect the stage show. The events of the play will also help to “enrich” Season 5, Matt Duffer says.  

“There’s a ton of conversation and dialogue between this play and the events that happen in Season 5,” Trefry says of the final season, which is over halfway written. “It was about trying to create something that is canon, but where you don’t have to see it to see Season 5. But if you do see it, it’ll make Season 5 better.” 

“There are hints of where [the show] is going to go,” Ross Duffer adds. “I think when [Season] 5 comes together, all of those pieces will hopefully click.” 

“The First Shadow” tickets are currently on sale through Aug. 25, 2024, although Friedman confirms the case signed one-year contracts and the production is open-ended. The plan is to bring the play to Broadway and the rest of the U.S. as soon as possible.  

“Hopefully it can get to as many places as it can so as many fans as possible can experience it,” Matt Duffer says. “That’s one thing we’re trying to figure out: How do we make sure people are able to see it before Season 5 releases?” 

“The First Shadow” marks the beginning of a broader universe for “Stranger Things.” The Duffers say they can’t “focus on the spinoffs until we’re landed the plan with Season 5,” but so far they’ve enjoyed letting other artists re-imagine their ideas. 

“This was originally pitched as a standalone story and so to be here now is surreal,” Ross Duffer says. “But this has been the most rewarding experience for us creatively." 

[love-byers]

....wait . there are people who don't think the show is centered around will? there are people who don't think a core part of s5 will be wills culmination as a character?? there are people who don't think the entire supernatural plot will circle back to will???

besides the fact that the duffers LITERALLY CONFIRMED that will is the center of s5...

the show itself literally tells you. that is the narrative they've been pushing the entire time.

the entire first season is about finding will. every single plotline is connected to finding will.

mike and the boys are using el to find will

jonathan and nancy are working together to hunt the monster they believe has taken will and barb

joyce is trying to communicate with will to find out where he is and how to save him

hopper is a cop investigating the case, and eventually he and joyce team up to investigate further into the lab conspiracy, believing it's tied to wills disappearance

a massive chunk of s2 is about wills connection to the upside down. he's being hunted by the mind flayer and used as a spy, causing a lot of the conflict but also leading to the resolution.

now that we know vecna was behind all of that, that open so many doors for will in s5. if you use your fucking peanut brain for 5 seconds you'll realize there are lots of things we don't know surrounding will and vecna that will come to light in s5. vecna specifically sought will out and hunted him down. remember s2?

"It wanted to kill you?"

"Not me. Everyone else."

we're also getting flashbacks of will in the upside down so we can see exactly what happened to him the week he was there. clearly there's something important we don't know about. the upside down is literally frozen on the day will went missing. but will isn't important and won't be a big part of s5?

s3 is the first time will is less significant to the plot. he still has the connection to the mind flayer and his ability to sense it is still relevant to the story and helps push it along. bit still, he had significantly less lines and screen time. much of his story is portrayed as him struggling to 'grow up' and not being interested in romance like the others. there are several jokes that present will as simply being childish and reluctant to grow out of it. which a lot of people found sort of annoying. i remember seeing a lot of people enjoying s3, but wishing will had more depth and importance.

but we now know that that's not the whole truth. all of that, him being annoyed and disinterested by romance, just wanting to play dnd with the party, and fighting with mike was all subtext leading into his sexuality and the fact that he's in love with mike. that's been confirmed by actors and the duffers themselves. though will's sexuality was always hinted at, it wasn't meant to fully come to light until s4. so they tried to pass it off as will just being childish. they tried to pass of mike and wills conflict as only being about dnd and growing up. a prime example of this is will tearing down castle byers after his fight with mike. he rips the photo of the core 4 as the ghostbusters down the middle, aka where he and mike are in the center. that is easily passed off as just being about the friend group. people BELIEVED that it was just about the friend group, and that there was no way will was in love with mike. but it's now literally confirmed that he is. like it's insane how many people never even considered that as a possibility. people literally just tune out parts of the show they don't immediately find interesting. i've seen so many comments on byler scenes, for example "it's not my fault you don't like girls", saying "wait i don't remember this scene when did he say that??" people just don't pay attention or think deeper than surface level, which in this case is okay because wills sexuality was meant to be something you slowly realized. the problem comes when people just start denying its significance and refusing to see it for what it is.

if you take in all of will's story with mike and whittle it down to "stupid gay crush on best friend" i don't know what show YOUVE been watching. did you forget that will only remembered his mom and mike when he was possessed and lost his memory? that mike recounting the day they met was enough for will to break through and communicate while possessed? that will puts mikes happiness before his own? that will has literally said he needs mike and always will?

it's not a crush that will can just get over. you know we actually have an example of a simple crush and it's dustin and max. how did that work out? dustin got over max very quickly and it's no biggie. he didn't go on a monologue about how he needs max and always will. he just thought she was cool and pretty.

also, the show spends so much time getting the audience to feel bad for will and want to see him happy. you are SUPPOSED to like him. you are supposed to have empathy for him. will is written to be extremely gentle, kind, and selfless.

will is too nice to say anything bad about anyone, even after being viscously bullied and called slurs for years. even by his own father, WHO HE STILL CANT TALK BAD ABOUT!!!

no matter how much will suffers, he remains kind and selfless. he gave a girl his tonka truck knowing joyce couldn't by him another one. mike says they shouldn't give up on looking for him because will sacrificed himself in dnd to save the party. remember the whole thing in s2 about joyce getting on will for constantly apologizing even when he did nothing wrong? there is no point to that besides evoking empathy for him!!!!! he is sweet and sensitive and doesn't deserve any of this!!!!!!!!

and about bylers being delusional for thinking will and mikes relationship will be a big part of s5 and the culmination of everything in a show about monsters killing people, here's a quote from shawn levy, who has directed many stranger things episodes

"People talk about mythology and The Upside Down, and all that is huge, but the magic of S5 are the characters who find sense of belonging with other and through that connection, become heroes."

everyone loves the stranger things relationships until they're queer. when they're queer suddenly there's no time for romance in a sci fi show, the writers actually suck, and they're just baiting. lumax and their love for each other was a core plot of the season where the big bad was trying to kill her all season. there is an entire plot point about max's memory of kissing lucas at the snow ball saving her life. in a show like this, there is time for relationships and supernatural stuff because they are interwoven when the time comes. they can do the exact same thing with byler in s5. s5 is going to be the longest season thus far. there will definitely be time for relationship development.

so yeah. call me delusional but i don't think the show will end with wills feelings for mike unresolved or with them just evaporating. given everything we know about s5 (relationships and finding belonging being an important factor, noah and finn constantly filming together, leakers saying will has a love interest) and everything we already know about the relationship formulas in ST, literally all the signs are pointing to byler. the only rebuttal people have is calling us delusional because the writers just wouldn't do that. if you actually push past the heteronormativity and consider the fact that the duffers do want to represent queer people in a way that doesn't reinforce the idea that we can never find love or be happy, things will start making a lot more sense.

i'm sorry to have to say this about mike but mike is a character presumed straight who hasn't been super relevant in the supernatural plot for 2 seasons now, just as long as will. his significant plot points are related to el or will. relationship development. and unlike will, he has been an ACTUAL asshole!!!! lots of people stopped liking mike as much after s2 because of his personality change. (ofc i still love mike, but there's been multiple plot lines about mike being a dick for no reason and apologizing for it) but no one has VISCERAL hatred for him like they do will byers. not saying mike deserves hate, cause he certainly doesn't, but the problems people have with will, they only have with will. any other character doing it is fine. 2 seaons of wills feelings for mike is boring and distracting but 2 seasons of mike having the same 'i love you' problems with el isn't?

i'm not saying the sudden hate for will is because it's now clear that he's gay but im kind of saying it

some people can't sympathize with queer issues because they don't care about queer people. they don't empathize with queer people. queer issues bore them.

will byers i will ALWAYS defend you. you are safe with me pookie

[raayllum]

So, Kpp'Ar.

Where is his coin right now, and what are the odds the last diamond gets used to save him?

The tricky thing about Kpp'Ar's coin is that we don't know precisely where it is. Right now there's 3 options:

Rayla took it but kept it voided because he looks like a dark mage, and Callum (if he knows) never asked any questions. Cue main trio still having it

It's buried under the rubble of Katolis castle and will be retrieved by either the main trio or Claudia in 7x01

It was buried under the rubble of Katolis castle and, off screen, Claudia already picked it up

The first two are the most likely, and I personally lean towards #2

If the protags find it, that's good for them because Kpp'Ar has clearly Plot Relevant information about Aaravos (box twin from novelization) and the staff (now confirmed in S6). He's also our resident reformed dark mage now that Viren is dead and clearly knows a lot about magic and how things work. Since he knows something about the Staff of Ziard that we just don't, he may also know things about dark magic's creation and Elarion that we don't, all of which will be extremely important in S7. This is also the most straight forward because the Dragang would have the coin and the unused quasar diamond ready to go

However, the option that is "more interesting" To Me is if Claudia finds it. If she found the coin, she'd see a glimpse of former family that she could find while also wrestling with the fact that maybe Viren made Mistakes (shocking, I know), something we haven't really seen her outwardly acknowledge. She'd also seemingly know that they need another quasar diamond - and Aaravos will presumably want his cube back, so he has reason to want to go charging after the dragang and letting Claudia lead the way (how she'd find out they have the other one? who knows). This also means that Claudia would be on the offensive of trying to steal back the quasar diamond (maybe the boys are trying to save Pip-Harrow?) and that she thinks she's going to get a Replacement Dad Grandpa back and... Kpp'Ar is furious and scared of her use of the staff and is 110% against Aaravos. It'd be one hell of a rude wake up call but one she desperately needs - although how much she'd listen to him given that she's drinking that "my Dad was a good man" juice and that Kpp'Ar was willing to let Soren die... who knows

All that said, given that the staff could imprison multiple elves... presumably it could also free maybe more than one person? So maybe Kpp'Ar could get out 'right away' in that lens, but who knows.

But yeah like. Kpp'Ar has info that seemingly almost no one else in the series does, a unique connection to Claudia and Soren's family history, it's been confirmed we're learning more about his arm wound thing in S7 (this was confirmed after S5), and I think he'd have a lot to offer Callum in particular as a contrast (but by no means does canon Need to do so, it'd just be fun). It's gonna be him over whatever-remains-of-Harrow, I'd be very surprised if it went anywhere else

[atamascolily]

TBF Prediction: Cheating Death is the Ultimate Trick

... or, why I think Lin Xue Ya is going to die--or at least, appear to die--in a future installment.

When a dying Sha Wu Sheng tells Lin Xue Ya he'll be waiting for him in hell in Season 1, I didn't think too much of it. Then I got to to the opening scene of Season 3, where Lin turns up with a bottle of wine to Wu Sheng's to pour one out for the departed, and says, "Knowing how impatient you are, I'm sure you're upset our promised reunion is taking so long," my ears pricked up at the unexpected callback.

Then Lin adds, "I'll have you know it's not that I'm not avoiding you, but I'll have to beg your patience for a bit longer" and my foreshadowing detector started tingling: Is he really saying what I think he's saying?? Is Lin really going to die?

Here's the thing about Lin: he never lies outright, but he's selective in his phrasing so that everything he says is both literally true and completely misleading without full context. There are so many different ways to interpret this scene, and that line in particular, and it may be that I'm seeing something that isn't actually there. And yet, I can't help wondering why he says this and what it means--and, perhaps more importantly, why the audience witnesses this. What is this scene's narrative purpose, anyway?

(Urobuchi has gone on the record saying that this scene is intended to connect S3 to everything that has come before--but while that's certainly true, I'd be surprised if that were the only purpose, especially since he also said he conceived of S3-S5/movie plots as one story, compared to previous installments, which were more episodic.)

First of all, it shows us a more contemplative side of Lin we haven't seen before--a Lin who appears to have some degree of fondness for Wu Sheng, enough to come visit his grave when he's in the area. But it also serves as a reminder of Wu Sheng's promise from earlier--and the only reason we need to be reminded about that is if it's going to be relevant later on.

When questioned by Shang Bu Huan about where he's been and why he's late for their latest dungeon crawl, Lin says, "Nothing to worry about. Just indulging my superstitious side". What does he mean by this? Does he know--or suspect--something we don't? Coupled with Lin's casual remark to Wu Sheng that he might enjoy the spectacle about to unfold, it seems like Lin either has some foreknowledge of what's to come, or he's making a reasonable assumption given the parties involved. Like so much involving Lin, it's difficult to say for certain.

Shang's angry response for Lin to quit fooling around seems especially harsh when we know what Lin was actually doing, even if it's perfectly justified from Shang's perspective. Yet at the same time, Shang invited Lin to come along on this expedition, and even asks him to take the point position and lead the way. For all Shang's bluster, he seems to have found an equilibrium with Lin, or at least some kind of acceptance of his presence and his personality even when Lin annoys him.

Season 3 sends Shang and Lin on parallel paths, with Lin targeting Huo Shi Ming Huang and manipulating events to keep Shang and company safe even from a distance. In the final episode, Lin doubles down on this, running away before Shang can confront him. We don't know what's going to happen in Season 4 yet, but it's likely that their arcs will continue to diverge, at least for a time, (as confirmed in the S4 trailer) as Lin infiltrates the Order of the Divine Swarm on his quest to humiliate its master, who is also Shang's greatest enemy.

Gen Urobuchi has a reputation for killing characters off, but it's important to note that the deaths are never random or pointless; they only occur when a character has fulfilled their narrative arc. (This is how I knew Juan Can Yun wasn't really dead in S3, even though I wasn't sure how he'd survived until the reveal.) This is especially true for a major character like Lin.

Urobuchi has commented in interviews how Lin and Shang's characters are "fixed" compared to someone like Lang Wu Yao, who is still figuring himself out; this doesn't mean they can't grow or change, merely that any shifts will be more subtle and less obvious than, for instance, Lang's magical boy power-up to signify his self-determination. Shang and Lin can and will change as a result of their interactions with each other, but only up to a certain point--no matter what else happens. they'll always be recognizably themselves.

(The question then becomes, "What is Lin's narrative arc, anyway?" which is an essay in and of itself, so forgive me if I don't tackle that here.)

Lin and Shang's fates are tied together; this is true both on a narrative level and in-universe, where Lin is able to exploit those ties for the Nendoroid communication devices. In their cameos in the Pili main series and in the Nitroplus 20th Anniversary video, the two are always depicted as companions walking side by side or sitting together at a table or having adventures together, which is especially striking given the push-pull of their canon relationship and how often their paths diverge. I fully expect that the final shot of Thunderbolt Fantasy will be Shang and Lin walking off into the sunset together as dramatic music plays, their cloaks blowing in the wind--an image that is incompatible with Lin biting the dust. Nor do I expect Urobuchi to end the series on a downer note--Thunderbolt Fantasy is his baby and he loves it, and Lin is very clearly an authorial favorite on top of that. So what's actually happening here?

Given all of the foreshadowing, I think Lin's death is inevitable as part of the show's climax (most likely in the final movie). But I don't think it means he's actually going to die--but we'll think that he did, at least for a bit, only for him to pop out at the most dramatic moment possible. After all, Lin is an illusionist and a performer, a master at making people see what he wants them to see--and what could possibly be a more dramatic trick than faking his own death?

Alternately, perhaps Lin really will die, but will somehow be saved/resurrected/restored in the end, most likely through his connection with Shang. All of the foreshadowing was correct, and perhaps Lin even believes this is his fate--but Shang doesn't believe in fate and might be able to do the impossible to prove it.

Or perhaps the death is a metaphorical one. "The Enigmatic Gale"--the persona that Lin has adopted for the entirety of the series thus far--might fall, and perhaps he will adopt a new name to suit his new role in life. As I said earlier, I don't think Lin will change completely--he'll still be a rogue we love to watch--but just as Shang became the Edgeless Blade, it's possible Lin will undergo a parallel transformation.

Or perhaps it's some combination of the options that I've discussed here--I genuinely don't know. I lean towards the first one, given Lin's personality and Urobuchi's style, but at this point, I don't have enough information for anything more informed.

I'll confess straight up that Lin is my favorite character, and I don't want him to die for good, so perhaps this is all just mental gymnastics to convince myself it is isn't going to happen. That said, while the subtle death flags are there, I think there's also plenty of evidence that it isn't going to stick. If nothing else, Lin Xue Ya is the sort who always has to have the last word, and cheating death--and looking good while doing it--is 100% his style.

[willel]

We don’t know the plot of the play or if it’s relevant to S5 but saying that connecting some current events to the past (and more specifically to the adults’) would be a complete retconning is a bit unfair. I remember watching S1 for the first time and wondering what happened between Joyce and Hopper, between Lonnie and Hopper, why has Joyce such a bad reputation in Hawkins but also such strong intuition, what happened to her aunt, why did Hopper feel cursed, and since it looked like Will was targeted, were all these things connected? I’m sure they didn’t have all the details mapped out back then but maybe a general idea (ala Freddy Krueger possibly). Maybe it’s bc I was less focused on the kids than others that I noticed these things.

I didn't say it was all retconning. I said specifically Joyce knowing Bob in high school would be a retcon when it's explicitly stated she did not know him.

With the play being canon and all, going back on that would indeed be a retcon. Not the worst one ever but it does mess with me a little when even smaller details like that get rerewitten later.

Like, Bob had a whole thing about Joyce being the it girl and he was a nobody in high school and was bullied, but now he's a well adjusted dude in the future dating Joyce Byers and he's content. Ya'know? I guess it still works even if they knew each other but....

I also said I'm confused a bit about the timelines. We don't know their exact ages but I thought Henry was a bit younger than Joyce and Hopper so connecting them directly is gonna be odd. I feel like the best route would be indirectly which I described in my other post. Writing in a personal grudge against them is a bit much. But a curse on the whole town because of something loosely related to them? Makes sense.

I think Hopper definitely knew Bob, he even calls him by his bully nickname "Bob the Brain" in season 2. I don't think Hopper himself was a bully but who knows.

Then you got Lonnie. Still don't think there's a direct connection to Henry at this point but I wouldn't be surprised if Lonnie bullied people in school such as Bob or Henry.

Anyway. It doesn't mean I'm not interested in Joyce and Hopper's past. I'm extremely curious since even Winona and David talk about it all the time. I just hope they keep everything in line since this is supposed to be a canon play. There is much to learn here but I will write some of it off if it starts contradicting the show itself like many of the comics.

While I am expecting to find out Henry's reasoning for all this, I don't expect we'll be learning why Will was targeted. They seem to be saving that for season 5. But I think we can get some clues.

I think we'll discover Henry's "trigger", what made him realize he had powers. We'll find out his moment that made him so sad and angry.

If I were to try and relate this to my own theories, such as Will having powers, it'd be pretty important to figure out what kind of person as potential and how to bring that out of someone in ways besides experimentation.

Finding out about Joyce's past in particular is a curious subject. They've hinted at family issues in the past. When Joyce was so persistent that she sensed Will around before but couldn't anymore, Lonnie immediately brings up, "Maybe it's like your aunt", implying her aunt "sensed" stuff or was generally a weirdo or had mental issues, which Joyce immediately denies.

That could be "connecting things to the past" leading to the reason why Will was targeted if Joyce passed along some potential powers to him or something.

I dunno. We shall have to see~

[wewebaggit]

everytime people trying to come up with something to excuse the writers's poor choices and ridiculous writing i yawn. ''oh vickie and argyle don't have surnames because it actually points to some secretive thing going on with them connected to other characters secretly on the show!!!'' and it is literally just that they do not have surnames because the duffers did not bother giving them surnames, because they did not care. literally that's it. ''i am sure X thing is going to be addressed in S5 i have hopes!! (insert an example how the duffers will suddenly now come up with a nice writing to fix their writing mistakes in the last season, when they have not manage to do that for 6 years). sorry not sorry to burst your bubble, but sometimes a writing is just that way because it is that way, not because of a secretive spectacular reason.

What surprises me is that there's no evidence in the past 4 seasons of such secrets unraveling. 4 seasons of pretty uncomplicated storytelling and suddenly they'll switch gears for season 5? Nah. 'Henry' next to Will's neck is the level of easter eggs they play with. Nothing more. It's cheeky not plot relevant. Like the project on Turing that they didn't even have the guts to expand on.

[pastabadguy]

Watched it twice so far, spoilers below cut:

- totally solid ending to the show, made me so insane I had to watch it twice in 1 day!! Only real complaint is the lack of Brock, but they were trying to fit a Lot of characters into that movie (and Brock's been out of focus since s5 lets be real)

- invisible yuri!!🎉🎉🎉 seriously though Debbie was such a great character and she fit right into the story, kind of like Red Death in how she was introduced late and post-compound but really left a great impression.

- I never expected the follow that bikini concept to be more than a throwaway reference, let alone major plot fuel (and it works??? How did they make that work). Bobbi's whole backstory was so cool and intriguing, I swear all the vbros backstory could be its own show.

- some delicious fucking reveals- rusty choosing and wanting to have kids is just...idk it gives me a lot of feelings. He's horrible to them, but he Wanted them, and he wanted Both of them (they're fraternal twins: he chose to have two boys rather than ending up with two by chance, which kind of means a lot considering how hank was treated like the lesser brother- he still wanted dean AND hank), and he was raised the exact same way...auaua7a

- speaking of reveals, I'd seen the "the monarch is a clone of rusty" theory and I never thought much about it, just kinda assumed it wasn't true. Holy fuck

- that fucking. Gravity field sequence. Scariest shit vbros has ever done. Legit creepy. Fully thought Hatred was gonna die for a second.

- Hank...baby boy my love. He's so Hank. I don't know how else to put it. I love Hank.

- Oddly happy about the Dermott inclusion. He was never my favorite, but he's Hank's true friend and he did what a good friend would. He's such a product of the core of the show if that makes sense? He's Hank's connection to the compound/that part of the show (pre-NY and the brothers truly growing out of their bubble), but also to the world outside of the compound. Idk I don't think much about Dermott but he's really important to Hank's character and to the show.

-So glad they brought Ben back. He's such an underused character for how much knowledge and mystery he has surrounding major plot elements that never get fully explained. I mean I guess that's why they barely used him.

- Order of the triad brilliant as always, I'm so happy they had plot relevance again (lack of Al, but still). The big fight scene was so neat, and I guess it was the only real fight scene in the movie? Unless I'm blanking, there are other intense or action-packed scenes but no real fights. It's a very vbros move to put the only true fight scene in the finale smack in the middle for no real reason.

- "tube of lube in an orgy of evidence" Brock was literally insane for this one

- that scene though. I just liked that scene.

- Great end for the Monarch and Dr. Mrs. whole conflict. I'm glad we got Dr. Mrs. standing up for her choices, especially since it wasn't just in the context of how it affected the Monarch or her relationship to the Monarch. Everything she did she did because she wanted to, even when it was hard or a mistake. And the Monarch is screwed over by it, but that's not Dr. Mrs. fault, he's part of the Guild so the same shit would be happening. Them having a sweet little heart to heart at the end and Dr. Mrs. being his partner in crime for a (very silly little) arch is a nice way to end things.

- The animation varied so much scene to scene, like some scenes looked almost s3 quality while others were gorgeous. Kinda par the course for vbros tho

- Dean <3 my beloved baby boy dean. I don't know what to say about him, he was great, his desperation was great, yknow

- Sad that Hunter never got to retransition (lot of people have said this) but I kinda get it since the full finale takes place like 3-4 days after s7

- For the amount of characters packed into that movie, there were a couple missing. Only character I'm kinda sad wasn't in it was Molotov. Idk where she would've fit, I'm just surprised they never did anything after establishing that she was working for the OSI. Ik they hated writing her though so I guess that makes sense.

- the creators mentioned in an interview that they had to cut a Sirena scene, and they wished they could've kept it because they didn't want people to hate Sirena. I'm fully with them on this, Sirena screwed up, but she's young and fucking up is just part of being young. I'm a Sirena stan idk

- Orpheus in the Zardoz outfit 👍 Hank's a funny little dude for that

- Movies that make me more afraid of smart speakers than I already was

- 100/10

Oh my god oh my god I'm. Going to watch it again. This is about the vbros movie.

[proud-mama-joyce]

does this S4 song hint at S5 time meddling?

In the scene in 4:01 where Dustin and Mike are looking for a D&D sub, the song “Play With Me” by Extreme plays right after Dustin hangs up the phone: 

I think others have noted how the song itself is anachronistic for 1986, seeing as it was released in 1989. This would suggest it has additional importance as a song selection, since they’re usually careful about these details.

I also find it *very* interesting that the guitar solo section of this song was also featured in a scene of the movie Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure (1989). If you haven’t seen it, Bill and Ted are high school students on the verge of failing out of school when they are contacted by a man from the future, who tells them that the future of world peace depends upon their ability to pass their history project. (This is because passing school allows them to stay together to work on their music, which is destined to solve all the world’s problems.) Using a time-traveling phone booth, they travel across human history to temporarily capture famous historical figures to be involved in their presentation. At one point, several of them end up at the local mall and mayhem ensues ("Play With Me” starts at 0:49):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8UGAbAPPkk

Why I think it could be an intentional reference: 

The song wasn’t released yet in 1986, as noted above, yet they chose to use it in ST (and I believe it’s the only S4 song like this, but correct me if I’m wrong). While the lyrics “do you wanna play with me” are obviously relevant for Mike and Dustin’s scenes here, I think there might be more to this, because...

The song being “out of place” in time for 1986 could relate to the time-traveling elements of the plot of BTEE (...and ST?...whatever’s going on, we know that specific times/dates have been emphasized in ST, there’s lots of clock imagery/etc., and we already have direct Back to the Future references in ST)

“Play With Me” is used very memorably in BTEE - not only is it during one of the most chaotic scenes in the movie, but it’s used diagetically (meaning characters in the BTEE universe hear it) as a time-traveling Beethoven experiments with musical equipment in the mall

BTEE is a popular 80s movie, so it wouldn’t be an obscure reference for a lot of the audience of ST (and if there’s more to this connection in S5, it would fit in with the 80s nostalgia of ST)

When “Play With Me” is used in ST, it starts playing during the shot of the phone, and the use of the phone is integral and iconic in the time travel in BTEE

Phones in ST appear linked to several lingering mysteries (how did Will call Joyce from the UD? Why couldn’t Mike get through to the Byers family in California even before Joyce started her new job? Why does Joyce get mysterious phone calls in S2? How and why is electricity connected with UD-related phenomena?)

Other similarities include: 

high-school-aged unlikely heroes in both stories

themes of “saving the world”

this electrical storm imagery:

(above: electrical disturbances in stormy clouds before the arrival of the time-traveling phone booth. Could be coincidence, but I see some similarity with Mind Flayer/UD imagery.)

this line--probably nothing but I couldn’t leave it out: 

Right as Bill and Ted watch their future selves arrive in the time-traveling phone booth for the first time...

...Ted says, “Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.”

What I’m wondering now:

Could this reference support the idea that ST characters will be interacting with their own S1-4 timelines in S5? Aside from other ST-related reasons we’ve had to wonder about this possibility, Bill and Ted’s story includes scenes of them interacting with themselves in their current timeline as well as in the past. They’re seen giving their previous selves advice or placing items in convenient locations so that their plan can succeed. 

How does this possibility relate, if at all, to the fact that the UD was “frozen in time” on Nov. 6th, 1983? There are no explicitly stated alternate dimensions in BTEE, but if Bill and Ted had failed, they would have ended up in a different timeline, and this would have created a paradox. Could our characters be in a similar situation? How are time and alternate dimensions related in ST?

Is it significant that Mike is also shown in a phone booth in S4? (In the Nevada desert calling NINA.) If ST5 builds on BTEE references, are these scenes foreshadowing S5 roles for Mike and Dustin in particular, or the Party as a whole? 

Dying to know what anyone else thinks too!

[strxnger-things]

I admit i didnt believe in birthdaygate/memorygate for a long time but after recent events with the st writers twitter i'm starting to believe, and after looking further into how it could be plot relevant i cant believe i never realised how important the shed scene is. like omfg its been right there the whole time???? vecna knows all of wills happiest memories???? ofc he is going to use them to his advantage somehow

(Referring to this post I made and the memorygate theory)

Heeeeey!

Yeah, I guess we'll see in Season 5 whether there's any kind of valid thread here (I'm personally on the fence with the whole thing, and just spitballing and having fun with it)

So far it's been established that Vecna "consumes" the thoughts and memories of the people he kills. They're kept in his mindscape. Everything that made them who they are as a person. And that's going to be an important plot point, especially surrounding Max in S5, imo.

But Vecna didn't kill any of the people present during the shed scene, so how can he do anything with their memories? Well, we know Vecna has the power to view memories without killing someone, but maybe he can actively manipulate/consume them without killing someone too. As in, it's not something he normally does (because why would he need to) but it's something he's capable of doing if he wanted. And Will is different from all of his other victims (save perhaps Billy). For some reason, he doesn't want to kill Will. He wants to play with him, possess his body, or potentially wants to win him over for reasons we don't know yet. We see El explore some of Billy's memories in S3, and Max's in S4. She's not possessing them, she's just able to enter their mindscapes and explore memories whilst she's in there. So we know that both El and Vecna have that power, it's a lab-kid thing that they can do. But Vecna also has this weird connection with time. So could he effectively alter memories and 'change the past', in a sense? Vecna's spent many hours levitating in the Creel House attic room, moving his consciousness from person to person and reading everyone in Hawkins like books. Watching them. Hearing everything. We visually see how it works in S4, just briefly before Vecna chooses Patrick as his next victim. So after Joyce, Jonathan and Mike tell Vecna what Will's happiest memories are (oops), maybe Vecna goes on to locate those exact memories and fuck around with them. And it's not just that those memories are Will's happiest memories - it's that Will's birthday and the rainbow ship drawing were most important to Joyce, it's building Castle Byers that was most important to Jonathan, it was playing D&D and first meeting Will that was most important to Mike.

I don't think it'd be one big event where Joyce, Jonathan and Mike all got simultaneous headaches one day, to be revealed in S5. But it could be a background scheme that Vecna's been slowly working on ever since the end of S2 after El sealed the gate.

Which is why as soon as we start S3, it's like Will has started to... fade? He's slowly being overlooked and forgotten. By S4, Will's birthday doesn't exist, Jonathan is distant and caught up in his own shit, and Mike seems to think his first real important connection with anyone was meeting El in the woods. There are still maaaany plotholes and questions with this theory, so I'm keeping a very open mind with it <3

[iamyounicorn]

what is dta and where do i take a look at it?

... being asked to explain dta out loud... my one fear. I expected someone might ask what it is, but. Did you have to ask it on anon. Did you have to make me say it out loud, in front of all my friends and followers.....

Down To Agincourt is a series of fanfictions inspired by and set in the alternate timeline from Supernatural's s5 episode 4 The End. It's a kind of zombie apocalypse setting except the zombies only show up like three books later. The main plot is basically a repeat of what happened in the episode, but set moments after the episode happened and also irreversible and inexplicable (in the episode an angel sends Dean into a far and terrible future (2014) so he can learn a lesson, in dta no one has any idea what or who did it, or how, or why, and this is a plot point).

And there's a lot of things wrong with the world since the story started and we Don't Know how they're connected but they're definitely connected somehow. And the main character gets bitten by a fairy or something and almost dies of a fever and has a huge hallucination dream thing that keeps coming back into plot relevance except he doesn't seem to remember any of it. And there's a "subplot" about a shitty ancient manuscript about an adventure along the Nile like an epic of gilgamesh imitation but written by a guy who was really bad at writing and really horny about the hippos. And another "subplot" about one of their subordinates writing very poetic prose filled with metaphors in his mission reports. And there's so many original characters and concepts and lore.

And it's really really good and well written, it's really funny and also really serious and also really intense, and there's so many amazing moments, and quotes that sound like they could be from famous literature, like

And it makes me insane.

[ghosts-of-the-apocalypse]

As much as I adore the Kas!Eddie headcannon/theory i really can't help but feel that Will fits the Kas mould a lot more than Eddie.

Hold on tight and buckle in because I'm about to go on a tangent that I attempted to wrap up into coherent paragraphs.

[long post ahead] TLDR: Will has lots of things that back him up with previous seasons while with Eddie it's heavily dependent on the possibility of things happening in S5.

Okay first off a bit of background info to consider, we all know Stranger Things has a lot of connections with some elements of Dungeons and Dragons, that being said however, it's not a direct link. It's moreso akin to the characters in Stranger Things doing a UQuiz for each unique monster that comes out of the upside down and getting a DnD equivalent.

Examples: Demogorgon is a singular powerful demon lord with tentacles and a reptile-like appearance. Within ST Demogorgons have a more animalistic mental capacity and work as soldiers for the Mind Flair and/or 001.

It's all very loosey goosey in terms of comparisons. Most similarities between DnD and Stranger Things comes with personality and slight plot points as portrayed best with Vecna.

Okay then so how does that make Will more like Kas than Eddie?

Well the main argument for Eddie being Kas is that he was killed by (demo)bats which have some slight relevancy towards Kas as he is a Vampire, and the hope that should be reincarnated it is due to Vecna making him his "puppet" which Kas Eddie then could backstab. This main theory is heavily reliant on things that may possibly happen in S5 rather than anything else we've seen in previous season(s).

On the other hand (pun intended), we have Will. Will has been a central character since S1 and while he may not always be in the spotlight his place within the main cast is the key driving element of the first few seasons. In interviews, the Duffer Brothers have said that S5 will be focused on the original main cast and be exploring more of the upside down. Additionally, with the recent releases of the S5 posters and the ending scene of S4 we can tell Will will be a pivotal character next season.

Will has had a connection with Vecna ever since he was rescued from the Upsidedown and while S2 had us (and all the other characters) believe this connection severed, the ending of S4 says otherwise with Will ominously reaching for his neck being the tell-tale sign of feeling Vecna's presence.

That already gives us more to work with for the Kas theory, with Will being linked a lot more strongly with Vecna already than Eddie. Not to mention that Will has in fact previously been used as a weapon for the Upsidedown's side in S2. Will being so closely connected with Vecna and having been on the same side temporarily gives him more reason to be able to betray him.

Furthermore, Kas did not turn into a vampire only because he'd been bitten by bats, but by being trapped across the multiverse and being so close to the Negative Energy Plane for so long then being offered vampirism in exchange for being Vecna's chief lieutenant. Will getting stuck in the Upsidedown for a week, a place of desolation and monsters, seems pretty fitting. Like previously mentioned, obviously not all elements of the DnD characters will fit within the ST storyline just because that's how those parallels have always been but it does seem pretty close.

Not to mention with the new posters we have Will with pale eyes under the Mindflare, Will split face with Vecna, Will back to back with Vecna as well as him rising in a ray of light surrounded by demobats. That adds up quite a bit.

This is only a theory, so I'm not tryna imply this is 100% true or that Kas!Eddie is entirely out of the realm of possibility, only my own late night rambling thoughts. Hell, if it's a way to bring back Eddie in S5 then screw everything, I'll take it. It's just a theory like anyone elses. The idea of Eddie being a vampire is also metal as fuck so that's also a bonus.

[raayllum]

The Coin / Moon Fam plotline: a Structural Analysis

There's been some stuff in the tags recently about people being bummed over how long the Moon Fam / coin plot line has taken, and while it's an understandable perspective (particularly with how long hiatuses can feel between seasons), when looking at TDP as one complete story... the Coin / Moon Fam plot line hasn't actually taken that long, and is one of the most consistently developed plot threads / relationships in the show - and here's why.

This meta is broken down into three subheadings labelled, "Series Layout," "Plot Relevancy," and "The Trio('s emotional arcs)".

Series Layout

First things first, the fact of the matter is that the only season that didn't continue the coin plotline at all has been S2. Every other season has had something. This is pretty unique as outside character journeys or relationship development, not much besides overarching plot carries between season to season. Callum's arc is a mage and Ezran as king is ongoing, but the coin plotline has developed more consistently per season than emphasis on Ezran and Rayla getting one-on-one scenes together (which they haven't since S2). So the official breakdown is this:

1x01-1x03: Runaan and his relationship with Rayla are developed. He is taken prisoner while she goes on the mission with the boys.

1x05: Rayla shares the backstory of her parents failing to protect the egg. This is the first and last time she talks directly about her family until S3.

1x08: The coins are introduced in relation to Aaravos and the mirror, specifically. Runaan knows something of what the mirror is. He is coined.

3x03: While Runaan is believed to be dead, it is shown to the audience that he is stuck between life and death in the Lotus pond.

3x08: We see Lain and Tiadrin. It is implied they are coined.

3x09: Viren has the coins, taunting Rayla about them. This likewise teases that her parents were coined and reminds us that Runaan is too.

4x07: We learn about the quasar diamonds, which is set up for S5. Rayla also mentions how Runaan used moon opals to create illusion spells.

4x08: Rayla offers to sacrifice her blades and explains their connection to Runaan and Ethari, and how she believes she won't ever see them again. This is pretty blatant setup for the next episode in which

4x09: Rayla tries to save and then receives the coins from Claudia. This is also when it is finally confirmed that Lain and Tiadrin were coined as well. She and Stella escape Umber Tor (this is also how Rayla learns about Stella's portal powers).

5x01: Rayla investigates the dungeons to find out what happened to Runaan / how the coins work. She finds a 'mystery human' in a 4th coin. She determines that while she wants to help her family, she can't bring herself to prioritize it while the world is still in danger and that Callum and Ezran need her.

5x02: We meet the mystery human and find out that he is Kpp'Ar, Viren's old mentor. Rayla uses Runaan's bow and Ethari's arrows (thanking the latter) to defend herself against a corrupted banther.

5x04: Rayla tells Callum the truth about the coins and her pain concerning them. He immediately wants to help her and finds a potential solution concerning the coins: quasar diamonds at the Starscraper. Callum intends to personally free them himself and risks all of their present lives to get the information.

5x05: Karim summons the Bloodmoon Huntress, Kim'Dael, to do his bidding. As we know thanks to the graphic novel of the same name, she has history with Rayla, Runaan, and Ethari.

TDP loves to set things up, add to it a little for a season, and then make it a major focus.

Think of how Claudia and Soren didn't see their dad again after 1x06 until 3x03 - that's about 14 episodes, roughly half of Arc 1! Or how nothing that Viren does in S1 or S2 affects the trio at all until his kids catch up with Callum, Ezran, and Rayla in 2x02, or his own actions until close to 3x04 and 3x08 - once again, seasons apart.

Thus, the breaks in between the Moon Fam development makes sense, even if as laid out before, Rayla's relationship with them and the coins are developed 4/5 seasons. In particular, Rayla's relationship with Runaan and Ethari are more developed and emphasized, additionally, than her relationship with her biological parents. And what's more, thanks to both the Nova Blade and the Quasar Diamonds being rumoured to be at the Starscraper, let's talk about

Plot Relevancy

As soon as we'd learned there was a fourth coin, I assumed that Kpp'Ar was imprisoned inside it, simply because 1) he's close to Viren, 2) he 'mysteriously disappears,' and 3) his name sounds like fucking copper. It is implied in the Book Two: Sky novelization that Kpp'Ar has Plot Relevant Information about Aaravos (and possibly the relic staff) as well as whatever Viren did to save Soren (and his own dark magic misdeeds).

The novelization confirms that Kpp'Ar had a box that perfectly matched the one Aaravos uses inside the mirror for the bug pal spell. Kpp'Ar is also a master of puzzles and could very well be the descendant of the Jailer, who created the now infamous puzzle of the prison, in addition to having a wide berth of magical knowledge.

This implied connection to the prison would make the most sense if Kpp'Ar gets out before Aaravos is freed, and Aaravos will have to be freed in season six. And if Kpp'Ar is getting out of his coin, then the Moon fam are also getting out of theirs before the season finale.

There's also the Kim'Dael plotline to consider. While she is a menace in S5, Janai implies that she is not at her full powers, claiming, "This is a monster you do not want unleashed." Given that Karim has the sun seed and an army, he will likely become King of Lux Aurea and able to free Kim'Dael in S6 as well. This sets up the Moon fam all working together with Rayla to defeat her in S7.

So thanks to Kpp'Ar and Kim'Dael, the Moon fam is tied to two ongoing plotlines that have to get underway sooner rather than later. They are also three of the few characters to have presumably known what the mirror was. Runaan seems to outright know something ("That mirror? You have found something worse than death") and for Lain and Tiadrin, it is implied, as it seems they stayed behind ultimately to guard the mirror > Zym's egg (given that they tried to have Hendryr take the egg with him) because they knew it falling into the wrong hands could be dangerous. This means that when the three of them do come sprawling out of the coins, they will immediately understand the stakes of Aaravos' imminent or potential release.

The "two relevant plotlines" is under the assumption as well that Callum's pursuit of Star magic in order to free them is not what ultimately leads to him 1) him being possessed (with Rayla being called upon to kill him again, generating a potential interesting conflict with Runaan) or 2) snowballs into being what releases Aaravos. In which case they'd be tethered to Three Plotlines. But in some ways, they already are, because of how Runaan in particular is going to impact each of

The Trio

or why the "Ezran short story indicating Ezran is going to have lots of big nasty feelings about Runaan's rescue and survival is the best thing that could've ever happened, thank you" section. You can read the short story here if you haven't already (and I highly recommend it).

Okay, but why is this a good thing? Well...

We know next season that Callum and Rayla are heading to the Starscraper, likely now that things with Aaravos have resolved enough and/or to get the Nova Blade because things have escalated very quickly. However, as previously discussed, while Callum might do some plot relevant snowball shit to get them out of the coins, from an emotional arc standpoint, he's more likely to struggle with Runaan once the assassin is out. As of now, Callum is wholly dedicated to helping Rayla get her parents out of the coins (as he states and reaffirms in 5x04). The fact the Starscraper also has the Nova Blade is a nice preventative bonus. But this current lack of 'big feelings' means that Rayla was our main emotional tether to how people are Feeling about the coin plotline, from a character standpoint.

Enter Ezran and his anger. Not only does it expand his character, it gives the audience another piece of emotional investment and complication in the coin plotline, even if we're still inclined to be more for freeing Runaan than not (which is where Ez may fall). And it also introduces that complication for Callum.

Rayla and Ezran, and Ezran and Callum, rarely argue. Now Ezran is going to be presumably pitted against something Callum wants to do for Rayla, being torn between the two people he loves the most, with Ezran possibly feeling betrayed by the two people he loves the most.

So now there's an emotional investment with all three of the main characters - for Ezran, his anger in contrast with his hopes for peace; for Callum, devotion to Rayla and more importantly in this vein at least, disagreement with his brother; and of course, Rayla being caught up in magic that may have a steep price to pay in order to free her family (and what Runaan may encourage her to do once he is freed, re: killing Callum).

The brothers have to resolve their conflict; Rayla has to get her family back; Runaan's responses to each of these things, and indeed being freed, opens up a lot more avenues. TDP has never taken the easy way out when it comes to character development and complicated emotion. Viren was saved from a similar fate to his former prisoner so that he could develop further - otherwise why keep a character alive? Runaan (and the others) are going to be freed by the end of S6 if not earlier than the finale by a decent margin, and have enough time to change, stumble, and grow alongside their daughter and her friends - while defeating Kim'Dael together as a family, I think. #Justformerassassinthings

Conclusion

S6 is go time and it's gonna be great, Runaan and Ethari are gonna get a good chunk of screentime together, Runaan is one of the most important driving forces within S6's setup, and they all still have places to go as characters. Thank you goodnight

[sleepy-moron]

Comicgayt

I think I’ve actually made a fairly solid connection between byler and one of the most iconic gay couples in marvel history, and I know I’m not the first person to make connections between Will and Billy Kaplan but this is a bit more in depth + some other interesting parallels and a little bit of memes……potential major plot spoilers for s5 if I’m right ahead tho

So I was checking some fan wikis to refresh my knowledge on Billy Kaplan because I am very confident that Will takes at least some inspiration from him (gay nerd with reality warping powers and a heavy association with magic+ it takes a while for people to realize just how fucking powerful he actually is) and the scarlet witch and I randomly had the idea that I should look into Teddy Altman (aka Hulkling aka Billy’s husband) to see if there were any significant parallels between him and Mike because I thought it would be interesting……and while there are a few other parallels that are pretty likely to just be coincidental…..there is a much bigger one that could be plausible as an intentional reference. I need to establish the direction I think Will’s story could go in season five first and then we can talk about the stuff that involves both pairs.

So Will is going to be targeted by Henry in some way, that much is obvious. It’s also a pretty reasonable assumption that Will can control/warp the upside down to some extent (although Will has no idea he can) and that’s why it is still stuck on the day Will vanished as a result of Will being unable to move past what happened to him. I brought up the scarlet witch earlier because she’s Billy’s mom but also because of the House of M storyline (aka literary what wandavision is based off of) from the comics. This involves someone (Wanda) with the ability to warp reality to create a perfect world for themselves to live in as a result of a breakdown and rewrites reality and the memories of everyone else around them to prevent people from destroying this new world.

While I don’t necessarily think Will is going to create a new reality on his own I do think he will be stuck in some version of a perfect world where he is either not responsible for its creation and thus is the only one who knows this illusion is an illusion, or is the one responsible and doesn’t know it which would mean another main character (Mike or El probably) to realize something is wrong and fix it, or Will consciously chooses to stay in the fake world and needs convincing to leave. This ties in with Billy as when it was discovered that his powers could reshape reality there was a conflict where multiple characters were unsure if Teddy was warped into being the ideal boyfriend or was straight up completely fabricated by Billy’s powers. Will’s idea of a perfect world would need to address him being in love with Mike, likely by him and Mike being together or having mutual feelings in the perfect world.

So that’s where I think the story could be going with Will next season, so now we can circle back around and talk about The big parallel: King Arthur and Merlin references. On the comic book side of things we have two boys (both of whom are gay) who are both massive nerds, one of which is secretly an alien prince that is basically destined to one day be king and pulls a special sword out of a stone on the request of a group of alien knights and is deemed by the knights to not be currently able to lead them because he is too loyal to his friends on earth to leave them behind or he wouldn’t be worthy of the sword. The other boy is a magician that unknowingly had reality warping powers (and is also a twin but that’s not super relevant here) a heavy association with wizards and is literally both married to the other boy and was also given the title of court magician a la Merlin by his husband. (Additionally Billy has been turned evil and in that state is referred to as demiurge which is a form of evil god responsible for the creation of the material world and a specific interpretation of this force is basically just what vecna is in canon)

In stranger things we also have two nerdy boys, one of which is Mike who is heavily compared to a paladin and a leader but is depicted wielding a sword and shield in the painting, and the shield literally has a crown symbol on it and has some other evidence suggesting he gets a sword in s5. He also is way too self sacrificing and protective of his friend to the point he literally would rather throw himself off a cliff then living with the guilt of being the reason his friends got hurt. The other boy is Will who is gay and in love with his best friend, has a load of twin imagery with El, is very likely to have been the reason the upside down is mirroring Hawkins and is frozen in time, and has heavy wizard theming with an emphasis on him and Mike being a team and who has been literally possessed by Vecna.

So given that it’s possible Will and Mike draw inspiration from both Billy and Teddy and also Arthur and Merlin this makes a specific poster very interesting in my opinion:

So we’ve all lost our minds over this image, and if we look at some comic covers of Billy and Teddy…….

This is a really fun coincidence but I just think it’s neat and I wanted to share it with you!

Ps: These two also had romantic subtext that fans picked up on way sooner then it was revealed in story as well…..it’s almost like byler might be romantic y’all/s

[amuelia]

How do you think Roose will meet his demise? Or will he survive? What's your best Roose end game predictions?

Thank you for the question! This will be a long post under the readmore, going into my thoughts on the show ending and exploring what the books may have set up in regards to themes and characterization, as well as a bit of general analysis of Roose' story arc in a Dance with Dragons (and some speculation about Ramsay as well).

If you click on the readmore i will have divided the post into sections with bolded Headers, if you want to only read my specific endgame ideas you can skip ahead to the "His Endgame?" section.

In The Show

The show had him get killed by Ramsay in s6, which informs a lot of the fandom speculation about this storyline.

I am not a fan of the show's scenario as it was both similar to tywin and tyrion as well as a mirror of robb's death; it would also be offscreen in the books since neither of the characters are PoVs and Ramsay would need to do the act in secret. This would ultimately undercut Roose' role and impact, being a death scene that is not very unique and also isn't shown to the reader directly. Since no PoV is even in Winterfell currently, we would just hear of it from afar and not witness the consequences.

The show also has a different dynamic in the Bolton storyline, emphasizing Ramsay as the "main character" of this arc, and elevating him to the main villain for s5-6 to fill Joffrey's shoes as an evil character played by a very charismatic actor. Ramsay's show writing is informed by the needs of a TV setting that wants shocking moments and capitalizes on "fan favourite" actors; his rising importance in the show thus is not necessarily an indicator of his book importance. The show was also missing many central characters like the northern lords and the Frey men in Winterfell.

The show had a tendency to kill off characters early when they wanted to cull storylines or had no plans to adapt more of the character's story (like Stannis, Barristan, possibly the Tyrells...); In Mance Rayder we have the most obvious example, where they killed him off for real in a scene that in the book was a misdirection. We also have characters like Jorah where it appears the showrunners had their own choice of how they want his storyline to end, even if Grrm has his own ending in mind.

"For a long time we wanted Ser Jorah to be there at The Wall in the end," writer Dave Hill says. "The three coming out of the tunnel would be Jon and Jorah and Tormund. But [...] Jorah should have the noble death he craves defending the woman he loves." - Dave Hill for Entertainment Weekly

So a death in the show does not need to be an indicator that the books will feature an equivalent scene, even if it gives a hint as to what may happen. By s5 the show has become its own beast, and the butterfly effects from radical changes they made as well as the different characterizations results in the show having to cater to its own needs in many cases when it gets to resolving a plotline.

"We reconceived the role to make it worthy of the actor's talents." - Benioff and Weiss for the s5 DVD commentary, on Indira Varma's casting as Ellaria

In The Books

(Since this post was getting out of hand in length a lot of these arguments are a little shortened/not as in-depth as i'd like! Feel free to inquire more via ask if something is unclear or you disagree)

In the books i find it hard to make a concrete guess as to how it will end. Occam's razor would be to assume the show sort of got it right and that it will vaguely end the same, which could very well happen and i will not discount the possibility; Ramsay is cruel, desires the Dreadfort rule, and is a suspected kinslayer and has no qualms to commit immoral violence.

"Ramsay killed [his brother]. A sickness of the bowels, Maester Uthor says, but I say poison." - Reek III, aDwD

Reek saw the way Ramsay's mouth twisted, the spittle glistening between his lips. He feared he might leap the table with his dagger in his hand [to attack his father]. - Reek III, aDwD

Arguments against this or for a different endgame come down to interpretations of the themes in the story arc and opinions on dramatic structure/grrm's writing, and are thus very subjective.

The way the story currently is going, Ramsay killing Roose treats Roose almost as a plot device; his death brings no change or development to Ramsay's character as we already know his motivations and cruelty align with such an act, and we can assume that he would feel no remorse about it either. The results of such a scene would be firmly on a story level, as it brings political changes and moves the plot along into a specific direction. Roose himself cannot have any relevant character development about it as he does not have a PoV and we would not be able to witness his reaction from the outside.

“The only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself.” - William Faulkner, often quoted by Grrm

Further, killing his father is very difficult to pull off in secret (Roose is frequently described as very cautious, and employs many guardsmen). And even if Ramsay pulls it off (people often interpret Ramsay as Roose' blind spot, assuming he might be caught by surprise, not expecting Ramsay would bite the hand that feeds him), Roose is the one that holds his entire alliance together; The Freys would be alienated by Ramsay who would antagonize Walda and her son as his rivals, The Ryswell bloc appears to dislike Ramsay (especially Barbrey), and the other northmen are implied to not even like Roose himself. Killing Roose would quickly combust the entire northern faction, and hinder Ramsay's further plans (another reason why I am not convinced of a book version of the "Battle of Bastards"). Though this might of course, if we look at it from the other side, be grrm's plan to quickly dissolve this plot and move the northern story forwards.

"Ramsay will kill [Walda's children], of course. [...] [She] will grieve to see them die, though." - Reek III, aDwD

"How many of our grudging friends do you imagine we'd retain if the truth were known? Only Lady Barbrey, whom you would turn into a pair of boots … inferior boots." - Reek III, aDwD

"Fear is what keeps a man alive in this world of treachery and deceit. Even here in Barrowton the crows are circling, waiting to feast upon our flesh. The Cerwyns and the Tallharts are not to be relied on, my fat friend Lord Wyman plots betrayal, and Whoresbane … the Umbers may seem simple, but they are not without a certain low cunning. Ramsay should fear them all, as I do." - Reek III, aDwD

Roose' death at Ramsay's hand also removes him thematically from the Red Wedding, as we can assume such a death might have happened regardless of his participation in the event (seeing as Ramsay is getting provoked by Roose constantly in normal dialogue, and has a general violent disposition). Roose already took Ramsay in before aGoT started, and married Walda very early in the war, which is already most of the buildup that the show's scenario had. It also has little to do with the The North Remembers plot except set dressing, since the northmen are presumably neither collaborating with/egging on Ramsay nor would they appreciate the development.

Themes: Ned Stark and the rule over the North

Roose is treated as a foil to Eddard; They are often contrasted in morals and ruling styles, while also having many superficial similarities that further connect them (they are seen as cold by people, grey eyed, patriarchs of rivalling northern houses, etc...).

Pale as morning mist, his eyes concealed more than they told. Jaime misliked those eyes. They reminded him of the day at King's Landing when Ned Stark had found him seated on the Iron Throne. - Jaime IV, aSoS

They both have a "bastard son" that they handle very differently; Roose treating Ramsay in the way that is seen as common in their society. Ramsay and Jon as a comparison are meant to show that Catelyn had a reason to see a bastard as a threat (since Domeric was antagonized by his bastard brother), but also shows that her suggested plan for Jon would not have stopped any danger either (as Ramsay being raised away from the castle didn't help).

And if his seed quickened, she expected he would see to the child's needs. He did more than that. The Starks were not like other men. Ned brought his bastard home with him, and called him "son" for all the north to see. - Catelyn II, aGoT

"Each year I sent the woman some piglets and chickens and a bag of stars, on the understanding that she was never to tell the boy who had fathered him. A peaceful land, a quiet people, that has always been my rule." - Reek III, aDwD

It appears to me that Roose' story functions in some ways as an inversion to Ned. He makes an attempt to grab a power he was not destined to (becoming warden of the north), where Ned did not want the responsiblity thrust upon him ("It was all meant for Brandon. [...] I never asked for this cup to pass to me." - Cat II, aGoT). Where Ned rules successfully and his northmen honor his legacy ("What do you think passes through their heads when they hear the new bride weeping? Valiant Ned's precious little girl." - The Turncloak, aDwD), the Boltons are largely hated and there are several plots conspiring against them ("Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die." - The King's Prize, aDwD).

It seems possible to me that in terms of their family and legacy, Roose might also live through an inverted version of Ned's story; where Ned died first, leaving his family behind, Roose already lived to see the death of his wives and trueborn heir, and might thus also live to see Ramsay's death. Ned leaves behind well raised children and a North who still respects his name, and even though he dies it will presumably all be "in good hands" in the end (in broad strokes, obviously this is all much more morally complex). Roose however built up a bad and toxic legacy, and also built his way of life around evading consequences; it makes sense to me that he would be forced by the story to finally endure all the consequences of his actions and witness the fall of his house firsthand. After all we already have Tywin who fulfils the purpose of dying before his children while his legacy falls to ruins, and a Feast for Crows explores this aspect thoroughly.

Roose' arc in A Dance With Dragons

The story repeatedly builds up the situation unravelling around Roose, and him slowly losing a grip on it and becoming more stressed and anxious.

Reek wondered if Roose Bolton ever cried. If so, do the tears feel cold upon his cheeks? - Reek II, aDwD

Roose Bolton said nothing at all. But Theon Greyjoy saw a look in his pale eyes that he had never seen before—an uneasiness, even a hint of fear. [...] That night the new stable collapsed beneath the weight of the snow that had buried it. - a Ghost in Winterfell, aDwD

Lady Walda gave a shriek and clutched at her lord husband's arm. "Stop," Roose Bolton shouted. "Stop this madness." His own men rushed forward as the Manderlys vaulted over the benches to get at the Freys. - Theon I, aDwD

It also directly presents him as a parallel to Theon's rule in aCoK, who similarly experienced a very unpopular rule and his subjects slowly turning against him. Presumably, the point of this comparison will not just be "Ramsay comes in at the end and unexpectedly whacks them on the head". Both Theon and Roose invited Ramsay into their lives, giving him more power than he deserves, and causing Ramsay to make choices that increasingly alienate others from them (the death of the miller's boys for example has repercussions for both Theon and Roose). Grrm is likely steering this towards a difference in how they will deal with this situation.

It all seemed so familiar, like a mummer show that he had seen before. Only the mummers had changed. Roose Bolton was playing the part that Theon had played the last time round, and the dead men were playing the parts of Aggar, Gynir Rednose, and Gelmarr the Grim. Reek was there too, he remembered, but he was a different Reek, a Reek with bloody hands and lies dripping from his lips, sweet as honey. - a Ghost in Winterfell, aDwD

"Stark's little wolflings are dead," said Ramsay, sloshing some more ale into his cup, "and they'll stay dead. Let them show their ugly faces, and my girls will rip those wolves of theirs to pieces. The sooner they turn up, the sooner I kill them again." - The elder Bolton sighed. "Again? Surely you misspeak. You never slew Lord Eddard's sons, those two sweet boys we loved so well. That was Theon Turncloak's work, remember? How many of our grudging friends do you imagine we'd retain if the truth were known?" - Reek III, aDwD

Roose' arc is deeply connected to the relations he shares to the other northern lords, which has been heavily impacted by the Red Wedding. It stands to reason that they are going to be an important part of his downfall, and we see many hints of them plotting to betray him.

The north remembers, Lord Davos. The north remembers, and the mummer's farce is almost done. My son is home." - Davos IV, aDwD

Themes: Stannis and kinslaying

The books set up Roose and Stannis as foils as well; Both lack charisma and have trouble winnning the people's support, Stannis and Roose both parallel and contrast Ned, Stannis appears as a "lesser Robert" where Roose is a "lesser Ned", Stannis represents the fire where Roose represents the ice, both struggle over dominion in a land that doesnt particularly want either of them, etc... What i find interesting is how they are contrasted over kinslaying:

"Only Renly could vex me so with a piece of fruit. He brought his doom on himself with his treason, but I did love him, Davos. I know that now. I swear, I will go to my grave thinking of my brother's peach." - Davos II, aCoK

"I should've had the mother whipped and thrown her child down a well … but the babe did have my eyes." [...] "Now [Domeric's] bones lie beneath the Dreadfort with the bones of his brothers, who died still in the cradle, and I am left with Ramsay. Tell me, my lord … if the kinslayer is accursed, what is a father to do when one son slays another?" - Reek III, aCoK

Stannis is set up as someone who is very thorough and strict in following his own code and his "duty", even if he does not like what it forces him to do.

Stannis ground his teeth again. "I never asked for this crown. Gold is cold and heavy on the head, but so long as I am the king, I have a duty . . . If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark . . . Sacrifice . . . is never easy, Davos. Or it is no true sacrifice. Tell him, my lady." - Davos IV, aSoS

The armorer considered that a moment. "Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends." - Jon I, aCoK

Roose however is frequently characterized as someone who tries to get as much as he can while avoiding negative consequences, and who does not have a consistent moral code and instead bends rules to his benefit to be the most comfortable to him.

It is often theorized that Stannis will end up burning his daughter Shireen; the Ramsay issue might then serve to contrast the two men. If Grrm intends it to be compared by the reader, I can see it going two ways: Either Roose will be forced to finally act in a drastic way after avoiding his responsibility in regards to Ramsay and he will be forced to get rid of his son, making him break the only moral hurdle he has presented adhering to during the story (though analyzing his character, the kinslaying taboo is probably less a sign of moral fortitude and more him using the guise of morals to explain a selfish motivation). Or he might not act against Ramsay and suffer the consequences, presenting an interesting moral situation where some readers might consider his action "better" or more relatable than Stannis', breaking up the otherwise very black and white moral comparison between the two men. It serves as an interesting conflict of the morality of kinslaying compared to what readers might see as a moral obligation of getting rid of a monster such as Ramsay; contrasting Shireen whose death would not be seen as worth it by most. Ramsay as a bastard (who was almost killed at birth if he hadnt been able to prove his paternity) also makes for an interesting verbal parallel with the bastard Edric Storm, and might be used for a look at the utilitarian principle of killing a child (baby ramsay/edric) to save countless people from suffering that underpinned Edric's story.

"As Faulkner says, all of us have the capacity in us for great good and for great evil, for love but also for hate. I wanted to write those kinds of complex character in a fantasy, and not just have all the good people get together to fight the bad guy." - Grrm

"Robert, I ask you, what did we rise against Aerys Targaryen for, if not to put an end to the murder of children?" - Eddard VIII, aGoT

"If Joffrey should die . . . what is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?" - "Everything," said Davos, softly. - Davos V, aSoS

However Grrm decides to present these conflicts or which actions the characters will take in the end, it will result in interesting discussion and analysis for the readers.

His Endgame?

Looking at the trends of the past books, it is probably going to be hard to predict any specific outcome; every book introduces new characters and plot elements that were impossible to predict from the last book even if their thematic importance or setup was aptly foreshadowed.

Roose has a lot of plot importance and characterization that has, in my opinion, not yet been properly resolved in a way that would be unique and poignant to the specific purpose his character appears to fulfil. However I also have a bias in that i did not like the show's writing of that scene which makes me averse to see a version of it in the books, and i really like Roose as a character and want to see him have more scenes in the next book(s). This leads me to discount plot speculation that cuts his character arc short offscreen early. Roose is only a side character; however, i have trust in grrm's writing abilities and that he would give him a proper sendoff that feels satisfying to a fan of the character.

"…even the [characters] who are complete bastards, nasty, twisted, deeply flawed human beings with serious psychological problems… When I get inside their skin and look out through their eyes, I have to feel a certain — if not sympathy, certainly empathy for them. I have to try to perceive the world as they do, and that creates a certain amount of affection." — George Martin

Considering my earlier analyis, there is a case to be made for Roose killing Ramsay; however it appears grrm might have a different endgame in mind for Ramsay, foreshadowed in Chett's prologue:

There'd be no lord's life for the leechman's son, no keep to call his own, no wives nor crowns. Only a wildling's sword in his belly, and then an unmarked grave. The snow's taken it all from me . . . the bloody snow . . . - Chett, aSoS

I tend to think something might happen to Roose/the Bolton bloc later in the book that would cause Ramsay to attempt to flee the scene again like he did back in aCoK fleeing Rodrik's justice; perhaps Ramsay is sent out to battle but then flees it like a coward, or he sees his cause as lost. This time, the fleeing and potentially disguised Ramsay would not make it out to safety though, and get killed without being recognized as Ramsay, dying forgotten. This would serve as dramatic irony since Ramsay so strongly desired to be recognized and respected as a Lord of Bolton, without being too on the nose.

As for Roose, i could see him getting captured and somehow brought to justice (either when someone takes Winterfell or in some sort of battle). I see it unlikely that he will be backstabbed like Robb was, because it seems very "eye for an eye" and ultimately doesn't teach much of a lesson except "he had it coming"; But the various people conspiring against him could lead to his capture by betraying him (giving a payoff to the northern conspiracies and the red wedding). I would find a scene of him standing trial interesting since i believe we didn't have one of these for a true non-pov villain yet, and it would be an interesting confrontation that he cannot escape from (he also loves to talk so it would be a good read to see him make a case for himself).

I assume Roose will be out of the picture when the Other plot finally properly kicks into gear (whether dead or "in prison"). With Stannis as a false Azor Ahai and Roose as a false Other (with his pale, cold features), their struggle in the north seems to be a representation of the false "Game of Thrones" that distracts people from the "real threat" of the Others.

As always this is just my opinion, and it could all go very differently in the books! There could always be something that completely uproots my analysis and goes into a direction i did not expect from the material we had; But i have fate that Grrm as a writer will deliver and give me something i can be satisfied with.

[shasta-reese]

Finale Part 1 (6x19)

I can't believe this is the last time I'll be writing an episode critique for Supergirl, it feels surreal. But nonetheless I have thoughts and I will voice them. For once I am writing this while watching the full episode so I can do this chronologically for once, I already know what happens from watching clips on Youtube but there might've been scenes that weren't available so here ya go, one last ride:

- Lex is a great villain but I still hate that he's stuck around for so long, personally I would've liked his arc to have ended in season 4 as more of character to highlight Lena's character development. Instead of this Lex/Nyxly bullcrap they put on. I also hate that we have Nyxly as the main villain for the season and she's great but somehow they force Lex into her plot. Just wished they left Nyxly as the solo villain of the season

- You know ngl kinda wish they went through with letting Alex kill Lex with her bare hands lol.

- I get Alex and Kelly's mindset of doing whatever it takes to get Esme back obviously but in getting Esme back by giving up the Totems would've been pointless cuz the first thing Nyxly probably would've done with the All Stone would have been to kill them

- I do appreciate that Nyxly really doesn't have any intention to hurt Esme in any way. She just wants the totem and its unfortunately connected to Esme. Like the whole episode she's trying to make Esme as comfortable as possible and preventing Lex from hurting her, it was nice (yes I understand she kidnapped Esme but you know what I mean)

- I really don't understand why they introduced the Lex/Nyxly romance arc since according to what we've seen, everything that Lex stands for is opposite to what Nyxly stands for. It also shows that that Lex doesn't really know Nyxly at all considering he keeps proposing things that Nyxly would never do (eg. hurt an innocent child, trust any man who has hurt women). Also how far in the future is this Lex from?

- Like they say this Lex is from the future but did he live in the future? or is he our present day Lex who went to the future and saw his future self with Nyxly? And if he's from the future then where the fuck is present day Lex? Also they said he had 31st century tech which also doesn't make sense cuz that's 10 centuries from now so it's impossible for Lex to still be alive then. Nyxly might be cuz she's an imp but still, idek did I miss something?

- Seeing Lena and Andrea interact is always so interesting because they are essentially childhood friends. It's such a shame that they never fully utilised their relationship in the plots. It would've been so relevant with Lena finding out she has magic and Andrea also having magic, Andrea being isolated, making terrible decisions is like how Lena was in S5. They could've leaned on each other and rebuilt their friendship like we thought since that scene in 5x19. But all we got were like 2 bland phone calls and 2 pep talks from Lena to Andrea. Truly a waste of talent considering they had Julie and Katie playing the characters.

- I fricking love Lillian (as a character, she's a horrible person). Just her laugh at the prospect of Lex being in love is exactly how everyone else reacted when they revealed the plotline. Ah Lillian, how I love how you tower over your ego-maniac son.

- Hey Nyxly, babes how 'bout we not traumatise Esme further by telling her your dad was a mad man who tried to slit your throat as a child, huh? thank yew

- Man, Chyler in that armoury scene was great, just the pure emotion of it all makes me wish we had more scenes at this level of intensity.

- God, Brainy and Nia really have my fucking heart :')

- Lol the Three Fates just reminds of Charlie from LoT. I miss them

- Alex and Kara arguing just makes me mad cuz like yeah Alex, Kara's plan might not work but handing over the Totems will also likely be the cause of your deaths cuz Lex would kill you all without a second thought. No plan is a guarantee but seeing as how Lena could still use magic at the bridge, ya'll could've thought of a plan eventually. Also Alex telling Kara she would never forgive her if something happen to Esme is a little bit of a low blow

- Lillian and Nyxly meeting was sure... something. Also thank you Lillian again for emphasising that Lex is incapable of love which makes the whole plotline make absolute zero sense. I do love Lillian manipulating Nyxly so effortlessly, just one convo and she was able to mess her up lol. Really shows how good Lillian is at manipulation.

- I'm in by no means an expert here but pretty sure basically knocking out the sun for SIX MONTHS is NOT just a small drawback

- Lena once again seems to be the only person who is speaking reason and yet again is ignored. Do you hear her Kara? Do you? Yes you have to do something but this ain't it

- How much is Lex paying that man to still be his butler? Like, I get it you need a job but surely there are other rich, white men who need a butler who don't want to destroy the universe.

- Honestly I thought after the scene where Nyxly puts herself between Esme and Lex that her arc would end differently. I feel like at that point Nyxly could have returned Esme even without getting the Love Totem, because in that moment we saw that Nyxly is capable of caring for someone else. But who knows...

- Seeing Lex get "dumped" and read for filth was so satisfying

- Another thing, didn't they say that at the bridge all powers and tech wouldn't work but they still used tech and Nia had her powers??? Did I misunderstand something?

- It's honestly hilariously bad writing that they were fully ready to air strike Kara with the military but when Kara stopped using the sun and said sorry, they were just like 'oh okay, all good I guess, bye Supergirl'. Also how are they continuously evading any type of repercussions from the government? Like they've been causing so much chaos and property damage to the city the whole season, how are the Superfriends getting off scot free

- I know its supposed to be serious but I can't help but laugh a little at them basically playing hot potato with the All Stone. This fight was still better than the final fight in 6x20 though

- I really wish Lillian died saving Lena instead of Lex but its still in character for her to save any of her children tbh

- Love how they just never explain why Nyxly and Lex become lizard people after using the All Stone 🙃. Way to waste your money to CGI that, it was just unnecessary they served zero purpose

- But thank you SupergirlCW for Lena witness yet another parents death, let's just add that to the long list of trauma Lena already had. For fucks sake, Lena really had to witness both of her mothers' deaths huh. I know she's not dead yet but still

- Orlando's speech was great :)

Well that's the end of this episode. Personally I feel like this was what 6x18 should've been, a build up to the finale and not part of the 2-hour finale. It's not that bad of an episode if you overlook some obvious plotholes like the whole bridge thing. I initially wanted to write this for the entire 2-hour finale but this way too long already so I'm posting 6x20 separately. So that's all for this ep.

Goodbye, for now.

[korra-the-red-lion]

Supergirl 6x9: Dream Weaver.

Hello everyone! This is a little later because I had a random mandatory class to attend this week and then had a whole day of workshops. ANYWAY, so how did I find this episode of Supergirl? Let’s find out. As always, SPOLIERS AHEAD.

A Kelly and Nia focused episode? I’m already giving this episode 5 stars based on that alone lol.

But seriously, the episode starts off with game night. Dansen is crushing whatever game they’re playing and it’s super cute. I think J’onn, who is technically a psychic, accused Alex and Kelly of being ones. It was a very cute moment for the Superfriends.

Kara not participating because Lena isn’t there is sending me through all kinds of loops of hell.

Speaking of, I didn’t mind that Brainy and Lena weren’t in this episode. I think by having the smaller numbers to work with, it allowed the focus to really stay on the two major plots running through this episode. I know some people were disappointed, but I actually like the decision.

Okay, so major plotline one is Kelly’s story. She’s working now as a social worker and the way that she instantly connected to the children was so beautiful. Also, that young girl is definitely Dansen’s future child, and I’m effing here for it. She was really funny and I’m glad that the ‘Alex wants to be a mom’ storyline hasn’t been forgotten this season (looking at you, s5).

Kelly and Kara teaming up to tackle the prison was awesome. But holy smokes, I couldn’t stop laughing when Kara used her eye lasers in front of the cop at the desk and SHE DIDN’T NOTICE? SHE DIDN’T NOTICE THE HOLE IN HER MUG. Not only that, then Kara zips behind the counter to investigate and nobody notices because that woman is apparently the only person who works the counters. I seriously couldn’t stop laughing, but it a good way.

I really liked that Kelly knew right away that there was some shady shit going down at the prison and the foster home. She ain’t a fool. Her riding the motorcycle into the night was awesome and I loved that she swiped that video feed no problem.

Okay, Nia for a bit. Nia is having recurring dreams about her mother because she very very desperately wants to see her again. Nyxly is back and is somehow in Nia’s dreamscape. This was vaguely explained but whatever, I’ll let it slide. Nyxly is trying to team up with Nia to get back into the human world, and Nia is too smart to fall for that.

Also, the dreamscape looked like a Taylor Swift music video.

Kara is working to stop the prisoners because they’re stealing stuff to build a bomb. I actually liked the whole factory part where she appeals to their humane side instead of just busting skulls. Kara’s hope speeches(TM) can be silly at times, but I liked it here. I do wish that they did some callback to s4 in someway, since the whole anti-alien thing was such a strong theme and Kara was a victim there too, but overall I thought it was a touching moment.

I forgot to mention this earlier but part of Kara’s storyline is her doing journalism again and I’m very happy. Andrea is a super crappy boss though, lol. She is the one who ruined CatCo yet she’s being such a crazy person about the ratings. Also, they moved up from 8th to 3rd this episode, so obviously they’re doing something right. But Andrea also gets bonus points for letting Nia take a mental health day. We stan a crappy boss who cares?

William being a work buddy and strictly a work buddy works here. I actually didn’t mind the team up for the most part. The only time I did was when Kara needed William to point out that the obviously shady prison warden was shady. It was one of those moments where they made Kara dumber than she is.

Kara does an interview to expose the corruption. I think overall this was a bit clunky in execution, but it was still a solid effort.

I teared up when Kelly reunited Joey and Orlando. Then I full on cried when Esme called Kelly a Guardian Angel. It was so nice. Then I teared up again when Alex gave Kelly Jimmy’s old Guardian stuff. Yay for Kelly!

Nia ends up ignoring the owl (who is obviously suppose to represent her mom) and agrees to work with Nyxly because she is so desperate to see her mom one more time. It’s really heartbreaking and I knew that it was coming. I think this storyline was the weakest one, but it still hit home. I’m curious to see where this ends up.

WHERE DID M’GANN GO?

OH, I also forgot this earlier. Alex goes out onto the balcony and encourages Kelly. It’s a really touching scene. I loved it. Then I realized it paralleled a scene that Lena and Kara had. I swear to effing God, this show.

So overall, this was a strong episode. CatCo felt relevent again. Kelly Olsen shined. Nia got to have some spotlight. Kara is realizing that both Kara and Supergirl bring something to the table. I’m excited for next week’s episode!