#sanseng mu

[the-monkey-ruler]

Do you know of a website where a family tree of the gods can be found? Or what gods are related to others?

I can't say that there is one because most gods are just not related. Sure some gods have family relations like Nezha, Erlang, or the Dragons Kings but they are considered more of the expectation than the rule.

I've said this before but how gods work in Chinese mythos is that anyone who cultivates and is able to train under an immortal and maybe perhaps gaining enough merit to go to heaven and get godhood gets to be a god. There are rarely any family relations involved also due to the fact that gods are not allowed to get married or have kids, the Jade Emperor being an expectation to this rule. Sure mortals can live in the lower levels of heaven and have families but they are not gods either. Or that gods had families before they became gods like Nezha's family. Or that they broke the law like Erlang Shen's family.

Needless to say, I would say give up trying to find a family tree since that is too far-fetched between the thousands of different gods and so few being related at all.

But I can say it the biggest known families are the Li Family with Jing Li, Jinzha, Muzha, and Nezha and their mother who most likely passed.

The Yang family with the sister of the JE being Yuan, Erlang Sheng, Sansheng Mu, and there was Yang Jiao but he passed away and their father passed as well. This makes Erlang Shen the JE's nephew and Sansheng Mu his niece.

And maybe Jade Emperor and his Daughters like Weaver girl who had a husband and two children but the Jade Emperor and Queen Mother who are to said to have many children so there isn't even a concrete number there, just that there is a lot.

There is also the Main Dragon Kings. The West, South, North, and East King Dragons are all brothers with an off-handed sister mentioned in Xiyouji. East and West Kings seem to have about three sons each and a daughter each as well (not sure about the South or North Kings but most likely children as well) and the Mother Dragon had like nine sons I believe. Not really gods but still a family that are immortal.

There are definitely a lot more I am just unaware of really. Most legends I know are more stand-alone without any mentions of the family besides mortal parents when they ascend to godhood. There are a few cases I see maybe certain gods being considered brothers and sisters. These are just the ones I really know and I hope that helps a little even if you won't find more family relations.

[earl-of-221b]

HOLY SHIT pilgrims I’m about to post divine jttw/LL news from dorkshadows from the beyond the ether -- soon when I have time to blog extensively about it -- but for now HOLY SHIT it’s POST Sanseng Mu smackdown at Mount Hua Erlang Shen, but it gives a different take on immortality and where these characters are in life, so Yang Jian is still YOUNG when he fucks up Sanseng Mu, he’s immortal 25 and his nephew Chen Xiang is immortal 14, and they have to get along or else----

[antidotefortheawkward-art]

The twins are out on town

[dorkshadows]

Obscure JTTW (p.4)

This book won’t be obscure for long if its TV adaptation goes well. Big Bad Ape /  大泼猴 (2014) is an internet novel based on characters/plots from Journey to the West. The television adaptation of the same name is scheduled for release in 2018 (Legends of Monkey King in Eng).

Plot: The soul of an average man travels back in time and possesses Wukong’s body for some reason. Armed with nothing but his knowledge of the JTTW novel, the protagonist tries to survive by reliving all of the original Sun Wukong’s exploits, starting from becoming King of Flower Fruit Mountain. Key events are kept (Ex. Water Curtain Cave, Puti, becoming the Great Sage Equaling Heaven, Sanzang’s journey west, etc.) but there’s also a lot of original drama/events.

Pros:

It’s very creative

It comes with a pairing I would never have expected to get canonized in a million years

Cons:

The writing’s mediocre (prose is simple, but unlike The Tales of Wukong, it doesn’t have a special style to it), description/dialogue-wise

No backstory for the guy who “replaced” Wukong; we know nothing about who he was or what time period he comes from, and I feel that in this case, the soul-swap thing was unnecessary

I’ll admit I didn’t finish this book because it’s a whopping 859 chapters long. 859. I don’t think it needed to be this long!

Anyway, Wukong himself is in the book- his soul was forcibly removed from his body when the protagonist’s went in, so Wukong had to become the Six Eared Macaque and he comes back as an antagonist. The other pilgrims don’t really stand out, though Sanzang’s braver/wiser than his book counterpart, and Erlang Shen has a major role but his sister’s the one with the bigger role because...

@earl-of-221b Sanseng Mu (Erlang Shen’s little sister) falls in love with not!Wukong in this book, and it actually ends with them getting together (of course, after his other potential love interest is killed off). I don’t think the female leads were written very well, but it’s not painfully bad. But everyone accepts not!Wukong as Sun Wukong, so Sanseng Mu still actually falls for Wukong (my mood when I found out: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????). I never knew this pairing could be a thing until now, so the author deserves kudos for thinking it’s a good idea. This completely messed up the Lotus Lantern myth though (if Sansengmu’s with Wukong, how is she going to give birth to a half-mortal son? Poor Chen Xiang just got wiped from existence.)

After The Tales of Wukong, Big Bad Ape is probably the most known Wukong “novel” but not as popular/acclaimed. It’s interesting and the writer clearly put in effort, but I don’t think this qualifies as a good book, though it has its fun moments. 

[the-monkey-ruler]

Are there any images of Erlang's younger sister? I've been trying to find one but I'm not sure if it's her.

I think there are a few!

https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%89%E5%9C%A3%E6%AF%8D/7239876?fromModule=lemma_search-box

Here is a few! I can't say when these were made exactly but I think they are really based of the Opera Lotus Lantern and how she is portrayed in those. If not I would suggest just trying in 三圣母 to get the best results on your own!

[the-monkey-ruler]

Out of curiosity, which Lotus Lantern Movie had the Three Treasures of Huashan? I understand now that Huashan having three treasures isn’t something from mythology, but I’m still curious about them honestly

I think it was the Lotus Lantern 新编宝莲灯 (2020)

Nuwa used the fire from heaven to mend the sky, extracted the essence of heaven and earth and turned it into a Lotus Lamp, and gave it to Sanseng as a magical weapon for body protection. After the Sanseng fell in love with the mortal Liu Xi, they were suppressed by Yang Jian from the Heavenly Court and went to Huashan. Chenxiang, the son of Sanseng, became a disciple of Sun Wukong when he grew up. He learned all kinds of martial arts and wanted to take back the Lotus Lantern and cut the mountain to save his mother. Yang Jian was heartbroken and blamed Chenxiang for the disaster that was about to happen. Sanseng was about to die, and Chenxiang went to heaven to change the rules of heaven, but the three realms of Buddhism, Taoism, and God were annihilated. The Lotus Lantern was originally the original force, but the three realms did not expect that the original sin had already ambushed the world when the sky split...

So in the movie, they show like the three weapons plus the Axe that I think was made by Pangu, but otherwise, I might have missed where it said what the other three were said. They look to be an orb, a scroll, and something like an amulet? Not sure. It's a really good movie though from what I skimmed! Love Wukong's design def.

He looks like a Japanese macaque almost!

[the-monkey-ruler]

Is the lotus lantern something that belonged to Sanshengmu or did she steal it to protect her family?

In the most modern interpretation that I have read, it was a gift from Sanseng's mother Yunhua, who was given it as a gift by Nuwa who created it. At least that is the version I am familiar with but that could just be the most popular modern interpretation. But otherwise it is Sanseng’s, she never stole it.

But it does have a long history. An item called the Lotus Lantern was first seen in the "Eight Immortals Awakening to the Way " and was originally the magic weapon of Our Lady of Mount Tai. It was used for lighting and exorcising evil spirits. Later, it became the treasure of Mount Huashan in the folk tale "The Lotus Lantern" which was formed in the late Qing Dynasty and the early days of the founding of the People's Republic of China.

"You must possess the power of incomparable kindness to activate its divine power that shakes the world and reverses the universe. It usually turns into a lotus, but it will only appear when there is danger in the world. If you have any evil thoughts, you will be hurt by it. Its power is boundless and no one in the Three Realms can match it. It has seven petals in total, emitting colorful light to guide people in life. Each petal can transform into any form to protect its owner. It has spirituality, recognizes its owner, and is never damaged. It has the ability to heal any injury and restore all the abilities and skills of the injured. It can also stimulate all human potential.

If the magic lamp goes out in the middle, the remaining potential of the person with high potential will remain in the magic lamp, which will conflict with the power of the magic lamp itself. The person with high potential will die under the attack of the two forces, thus being locked to death in the magic lamp. It can protect and preserve the soul of a person who dies abnormally. As long as the body is turned 81 times to the left and 81 times to the right, it can be resurrected. If there are not enough or too many circles, you may not be able to resurrect, or your spirit may be swapped, and you must start over to recover. At the same time, it can wash away all the filth in the world; it can lead all things in the world to go anywhere; it can give an early warning to its owner by luminous light, and its intensity represents the degree of danger."

Not sure how much of this is from the original purpose to the newer version of the Lotus Lantern but this is considered as a very powerful creation in general. I do like to think that Sanseng was able to at least have one thing that connected her to her mother while she was under the mountain. Like the one thing she was able to take with her as a child when she and Erlang Shen were running away from heaven.

[the-monkey-ruler]

I was reading how the gods have to suppress their emotions and feelings because it was dangerous for them to get carried away by them and it could have consequences for everyone, so Erlang doing that to his sister was more that he saw that she was being selfish and probably giving a warning to other gods not to do the same?

I mean, I definitely think that could be a part of it but personally, I think that Erlang believes that he was in the right because firsthand knew what it was like to be a demigod and he wouldn’t wish that upon anyone. Like he and Sanseng Mu saw their father die, their brother killed just for being born, their entire home destroyed, and the mother imprisoned for her crimes while they had to run away. They were on their own for so long and it wasn’t until they found an immortal master to train them did Erlang put all his energy into saving his mother and fighting heaven.

He knew firsthand what it means for an immortal to break the rules of heaven, and how it affects those around them. I don’t wanna put Yuanhua as the bad guy, and while she did deserve love, she did put her children in danger for the circumstances of their birth. Her kids are the innocents in this case who had to face punishment for a choice they didn’t have. I like to think that Erlang Shen was probably more likely traumatized by the whole experience, and instead of processing it in a healthy manner, he more internalized that what heaven did to them was needed in order for them to live. His family's death couldn't be just a tragedy for him else everything he has done up to that point would be in vain and the death of his family would just be a tragic death. So instead, he always tries to justify it in his mind to give reason to the tragedy and that it had to serve a purpose to make sense.

Erlang Shen sees his sister doing the same thing as the mother did and with another child who might go through the same process they witnessed. I think that he definitely thought of Sanseng Mu as selfish in the sense that she would put her own child through what they had to deal with. He had no hope she could get away with this considering heaven had already found out and he knew what was going to happen. And maybe he stepped in himself… just to prevent that. That he stepped in because he knew that someone had to put his sister under the mountain and if someone had to it could at least be him… and that he could at least save his brother-in-law and his nephew. They would have to be without a wife and mother, but he is losing her sister as well. He knows that Sanseng Mu can’t escape the punishment of heaven and that he is upset that she would put herself in the situation when they have both gone through the same things. But while Sanseng Mu was able to process what happened to them to find love and take risks to secure her happiness while Erlang Shen still holds some kind of resentment for his own creation. But he understands that the punishment should at least just be on his sister and not her family like their father and brother were.

Yuanhua and Sanseng Mu are goddesses and as such they have a responsibility to heaven, which they neglected when they abandoned their post to start families. These are meant to be romantic tragedy stories, and I think that they do that very nicely but also they are family tragedies as well. Erlang Shen continues the cycle of his family going through this kind of tragedy, but also the dangers that are brought from abandoning your duties also come into play. God’s are supposed to suppress the emotions because they shouldn’t make decisions out of anger or desire, but that they are to have rational and orderly choices when it comes to the heavens. But this also means that pleasure cannot take over gods because that creates bias as well. There was a lot of danger if gods let their desires rule them because they are so powerful and I believe that they are so strict because any repercussion or mistake they could make would affect the earth and therefore humans on a monumental level. Gods cannot afford to make mistakes when even spilling a cup in heaven could be a hurricane on earth.

[the-monkey-ruler]

After Jade Emperor had Erlang's father and brother killed and his mother was captured, is it known who took care of Erlang and Sanshegmu? Or what did they do after that happened? Where did they go? Are there any media that mention that? Or can we assume that Erlang had to take care of himself and his sister?

I think that in Demon slaying chronicles, the comic, it is implied that Erlang had to take care of his sister on his own, but I don't know if it is different in other media or if there are mentions about it in stories and myths.

After Jade Emperor had Erlang's father and brother killed and his mother was captured, is it known who took care of Erlang and Sanshegmu?

Yes, we know that Erlang Shen went to train under Yuding Zhenren who we are to assume that both Erlang Shen and Sanseng Mu were trained as they were both able to cultivate to become gods when Erlang Shen confronted the heavens.

Or what did they do after that happened?

I can't say how long it took them to find Yuding but they must have been still relatively young at least. I haven't read Romance of the Three Kingdoms or FSYY so the details on my part are a bit blurry.

Where did they go?

Jinxia Cave located in the northern part of An County, Mianyang, Sichuan Province

Are there any media that mention that?

It's mentioned in Fengshen Yanyi and Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

Or can we assume that Erlang had to take care of himself and his sister?

He undoubtedly took care of himself and his sister for however long they were on the run until they found an immortal master to train under. But I can't say how long that time was really.

I think that in Demon slaying chronicles, the comic, it is implied that Erlang had to take care of his sister on his own, but I don't know if it is different in other media or if there are mentions about it in stories and myths.

I haven't read the Demon Slaying Chronicles but it looks really good! Art style if Peak!! There is a lot of media that does have Yuding in it such as:

Creation of the Gods I (2023)

Erlang Shen (2023) 

The Legends of Changing Destiny

New Gods: Yang Jian (2022) (I have seen this one! Really good!)

The God of War (2022)

Erlang Shen (2021)

The Magic Lotus Lantern (2021)

Investiture of the Gods (2019)

Lotus Lantern Prequel (2009) 

Investiture of the Gods (1990)

The Boy Fighter from Heaven (1986)

Highly recommend some of these!!

[the-monkey-ruler]

Chenxiang gets to live many years as an immortal with his mother after he frees her or is that never specified? Merging with the lotus lantern (which is Nuwa's invention, right?) should have increased his lifespan, and also training with an immortal should also mean that something must have affected him in some way. Or does he live with his mother like mortals after the events?

I understand that Sanshengmu as a goddess, her name must have been erased from the book of Yama, so she cannot die unless she is killed by other immortal, and I have no idea if gods can become mortal again.

Chenxiang gets to live many years as an immortal with his mother after he frees her or is that never specified?

He should be an immortal from all his training. I never really see much of an after-story of Chenxiang and thus I can't say what is the most interpreted version but the best I can assume is that he would be at least immortal similar to how Erlang Shen was immortal after training under the Tao to save his own mother.

Merging with the lotus lantern (which is Nuwa's invention, right?) should have increased his lifespan, and also training with an immortal should also mean that something must have affected him in some way.

I'm not sure about the ramifications of merging with the Lotus Lantern but it is a heavenly treasure made by Nvwa and thus there could be a lot of changes within his body, being immortal could be one of them.

At the very least if the Lotus Lantern only gave him prolonged life then he should have been able to master the Dao to have the proper cultivation to keep an immortal body.

Or does he live with his mother like mortals after the events?

I do see a lot of instances in the end of Lotus Lantern stories that Sansheng Mu and Chenxiang (and sometimes his dad) do go back to living on Lotus Mountain where they used to live. Perhaps they could have moved to the lower realms of heaven like other mortal families. I'm not sure how long they would stay on earth but they probably move to heaven to stay a family, esp if you believe that the father would have a longer lifespan being able to live in heaven as well.

I understand that Sanshengmu as a goddess, her name must have been erased from the book of Yama, so she cannot die unless she is killed by other immortal, and I have no idea if gods can become mortal again

As a goddess she would most likely lose her death date yes, but there are cases of celestials being turned mortal again as a punishment. (also anyone could kill her if strong, enough it doesn't have to be immortal) We see this with Chang'e in one of her many versions where she and Houyi were gods and then turned mortal and then Chang'e was only able to be immortal again.

So it most likely would be done by the Jade Emporer who would be strong and cultivated enough to know how to take away other celestials' cultivation. But since her punishment was to be put under a mountain she never lost her immortality, nor did she ever lose her god status either. Most likely because their crimes were different and thus she was being punished in a similar manner as her mother.

[the-monkey-ruler]

you said there where three treasures of Mount Huashan in the Lotus Lantern; I already know about the lantern itself but what are the other two treasures?

I might have to retcon that last one actually. The "three treasures" were from the movie Lotus Lantern and not from the actual myth. I see some people thinking it is the Ax that Chenxiang uses to split the mountain. But I see more stories where the ax is from the immortal that is teaching Chenxiang or heaven than from Sanseng Mu.

So sorry for the confusion!

[the-monkey-ruler]

I've seen people mention that Sun Wukong got married or at least, one of the versions mentions that. It makes me wonder how it works because if we assume that Wukong was a monk's student, then why is there a version where he gets married? I also wanted to know a little more about that version you mentioned that Erlang was married

You might be talked about the Zaju play version which was an earlier version of the Sun Wukong we know today.

That version of Wukong is a vicious, perverted, stupid, cowardly version of Wukong that was actually formed to be the comedic relief (similar to how Bajie is considered the clown in Xiyouji) of the play and to be considered a clown to be laughed at rather than the intelligent, strong, and cunny Wukong we get in the Wu Cheng'en's version. In the Zaju version Wukong kidnapped himself a wife before he became a monk, Princess of the Golden Cauldron country, against her will I might add, and kept her as a trophy in his cave. He also makes several passes at other women like Princess Iron Fan and the Queen of Women's Kingdom in the play, and even Sanzang suggesting that the monk wants him for his "thin waist."

Needless to say, this version is vastly different than the one that was created nearly 200 years after the play when Wu Cheng'en made Wukong to be more of a mischievous rascal rather than a full blown clown to be mocked by the audience. There have been no modern interpretations of this Sun Wukong as the Wu Cheng'en version is considered the 'canon' Wukong. The reason that Zaju at least make someone sense is that he got married before he was a Monk.

There are some media that does have Wukong with a wife but those are by different authors after Wukong completes his journey. Journey to the West Supplement has it that he married Princess Iron Fan in a dream. Journey to the South suggests that maybe Wukong marries as he has direct kids (assumed biological) but never mentions he has a wife actually. And of course some more modern media has that he has children without or without a wife being mentioned. Depends on what you are watching. And the best I can tell you is that those authors simply are asking that their audience give a little 'suspicion of disbelief' that I have talked about before for the sake of having the narrative flow. NO, it does NOT make sense and it CAN'T really work logically but rather than focusing on that, that plot point is largely ignored to continue the narrative. Such as Wukong just having kids and not mentioning a wife or simply never acknowledging how that doesn't make sense. I talked about that a bit when discussing Wukong's failed romances in media before as there are a lot of movies and shows where Wukong does have a SO but they are usually met with a death fate for the sake of continuity. So there are many versions where he does get married, even if none of them make continuity sense.

And yeah! Lotus Lantern Prequal 2009 was the one where Erlang Shen got married and divorced! It was made after the Lotus Lantern TV show 2005 which was such a hit it made this spinoff. I'll put a link for you if you want to see it! But it pretty much just follows Erlang Shen and his sister Sanseng Mu and how their lives led up to the Lotus Lantern 2005 show.

[the-monkey-ruler]

I understand that Wukong has a vow of celibacy due to his status as a monk, but I wanted to ask if other gods have vows like that? Do Nezha, Muzha, or Erlang have them? I remember someone once saying that some gods had those vows or something, but maybe I remember it wrong.

It's not really a vow of celibacy as much as it is illegal so to speak.

In Eastern Heaven, it is very rare if there is a god in a relationship, whether past or future, because they always end with a breakup. Chang'e, Weaver Girl, Yunhua, Sanseng Mu, and so on are just a few examples of goddesses in heaven who have been romantically involved with other gods or humans. Chang'e had her husband left on earth, Weaver Girl only gets to see her husband once a year, Yunhua had her husband and first son killed, and Sanseng Mu was put under a mountain for her crimes of being married to a human and having a son.

Needless to say, these romantic relationships are considered illegal in heaven as Taoist gods you are to give up your worldly connections, including getting married or being in a relationship for the sake of getting a god title. Your first priority is your duty as a god and your Emperor and to be involved with another person only leads to distractions. Let it be said that you are never FORCED to be a god, all gods and goddesses understand what they are getting into when accepting a job position and must agree to the terms and conditions in order to proceed with their job applications. Very by the book.

A good example of this is in Xiyouji when we see the Yellow-Robed Demon kidnapping a queen to be his bride. He is actually one of the 28 Masions of Heaven and fell in love with a Jade Maiden in Heaven and both agreed to run away to be together. But she was reincarnated and forgot about him while he turned into a demon and kidnapped her. The point being is that they both knew they couldn't be together in heaven because Romantic Relationships are not allowed between gods or mortals. You could be immortal or even just live in heaven (yes some mortals get to live in lower levels of heaven) and get married but for gods like Erlang Shen, Muzha, and Nezha, they would not be allowed relationships because they have god titles (Also Muzha is under Guanyin here so he might have a vow of celibacy actually).

Funny enough there is a show Lotus Lantern Prequeal where I believe Erlang Shen divorces his wife just so he could ascend to be a god in heaven. These kind of tragic love stories are very popular and thus you always see them in myths.

[the-monkey-ruler]

So.

I understand that Erlang Shen's birth name was Yang Jian, Yang being his family name.

I also understand that Shen is appended to the names of important and cool deities.

What I don't understand is when and why Jian became Erlang.

Erlang means Second Son.

二 - two

郎 - youth / someone else's son / young person

Which is what he is, he is the second son after his first brother Jiao. Similar to Sanseng Mu, Third Sister. It is kinda like his name is “Second Brother God” showing that he is eternally reminded of his human origins and never escapes his human origins and the death of his brother. His god name is literally what he is and always will be, a connection to his parents as he is a god of Filial as well.

[the-monkey-ruler]

So, my understanding is that FengShen Yanyi is before Journey to que west. My question is, are the events of Lotus Lantern before Sun Wukong wants a place in heaven? I know those three stories the most, but I don't know if there are any others that I should know. I also wanted to ask where Chang'e's story falls between these stories.

Shang Dynasty: c.1750 B.C. - c.1066 B.C.

The Investiture of the Gods, also known by its Chinese names Fengshen Yanyi (Chinese: 封神演義) story is set in the era of the decline of the Shang dynasty (1600–1046 BC) and the rise of the Zhou dynasty (1046–256 BC).

Zhou Dynasty: Western Zhou: 1066 B.C. - 221 B.C.

Chang'e first appeared in Guicang, a divination text written in Zhou Dynasty (1046 BC - 256 BC).

Qin Dynasty: 771 B.C. - 206 B.C.

Wukong bursting out of the stone (Warring States Period)

Han Dynasty: 206 B.C. - 220

Wukong Dies (at the age of 342)

Wukong Trapped Under Five Element Mountain

Liu Xiang (Liu Chenxiang's father), a scholar of the Han Dynasty (first draft)

Three Kingdoms: Wei: 220 - 280

Western Jin: 265 - 316

Eastern Jin: 317 - 420

Sixteen Kingdoms: 304 - 420

Southern and Northern Dynasty: 420 - 581

Sui Dynasty: 581 - 618

Tang Dynasty: 618 - 907

Journey to the West (Chinese: 西遊記) is an extended account of the legendary pilgrimage of the Tang dynasty Buddhist monk Xuanzang

The Magic Lotus Lantern is a Chinese fairy tale from the Tang dynasty (618–907). (recreation in Qing Dynasty)

Five Dynasties: 907 - 979

Song Dynasty: 960 - 1279

Liao Dynasty: 907 - 1125

Western Xia Dynasty: 1032 - 1227

Jin Dynasty: 1115 - 1234

Yuan Dynasty: 1279 - 1368

Ming Dynasty: 1368 - 1644

Qing Dynasty: 1644 - 1911

I'm taking this from when the legends are either first mentioned OR have said IN THE TEXT when they are to take place. Chang'e was first mentioned in the Zhou Dynasty, but I am not sure if the story is meant to be even earlier depending. I have also seen that the story of Chang'e first appeared in the Shang Dynasty hexagram "Gui Zang ". The complete story of Chang'e flying to the moon was first recorded in "Huainanzi·Lanmingxun" of the Western Han Dynasty. During the Eastern Han Dynasty, the relationship between Chang'e and Yi was established, and Chang'e turned into a toad that made medicine after entering the moon palace. After the Northern and Southern Dynasties, the image of Chang'e returned to being a woman. In Han Dynasty portraits, Chang'e has the head of a human and the body of a snake. Her hair is in a high bun, she wears a long jacket with wide sleeves, and her long tail is decorated with short, barb-shaped feathers. After the Northern and Southern Dynasties, Chang'e was portrayed as a peerless beauty. 

Xiyouji is also very much in the Tang dynasty and is even said to have prolonged the Tang dynasty within the novel. Wukong’s birth and creation is to be sometime in the Warring States period and to be guessed in the Qin Dynasty. Lotus Lantern ALSO was created in the Tang Dynasty and from my understanding and its first interaction is when Liu Xiang (someone said Liu Xi) is a scholar of the Han Dynasty and went to Beijing to take an exam (this is the version of lotus Lanter were he gets remarried) He passed by the Huashan Temple and wrote a poem in the temple. He teased the temple deity, the Sanseng Mu of Huayue. Sanseng Mu was so angry that they wanted to kill him but fell in love with him in the end. I cannot say that if the original version is meant to be before or after the Wukong has been punished by heaven and is under the mountain but considering that Wukong mentions Erlang's mother and not his nephew that would be a good suggestion that is after in this version. It is in the Qin Dynasty do we see the version that Lotus Lantern being definitively placed after Wukong going on his journey in Tang Dynasty, making the legends VERY recent in comparison to others. This is the version where Chengxiang's father doesn't get remarried and is the more popular of the two honestly.

[the-monkey-ruler]

If you had to pit mk n CX in a fight, who do u think would win?

(I know they would actually bond but my bet is on CX)

In another word, if FB had decided to do a LL retelling, would you be happy or be cautious about it?

(I wholeheartedly believe if lmk had stuck more closely to jttw, the characters wouldnt refer to swk as “monkey king”, they would have called him great sage n similar tittle to that OR straight mention him as buddha. Buddhism should have been more prominent here since xiyouji IS about that n daoism. Esp w swk being a Buddhist monk. Why is that part missing here in lmk??)

I do wish they took their time with Wukong… but… it looks like they really wanted to not go the route of Great Sage or Victorious Fighting Buddha or even people barely calling him Sun Wukong... like this character as so many layers...

As for a fight... Hard to say...

ChenXiang with 74 transformations, power of the lotus Lantern and the Axe

Or Xiaotian with 72 transformations, invulnerability, and the Golden Hoop Staff.

Low key giving off Wukong vs Erlang Shen energy.

I would think in that fight, it is whoever the cleverer one would come out on a straight-up fight. Power and speed are kinda mute at that point. But also maybe whoever is more confident too cause confidence is key!

But I wouldn't honestly be against a Lotus Lantern retelling by Flying Bark.

Sure maybe it could be rushed or the plot a little shoved but they can make charming characters and has shown that they are particularly fond of drama. Which Lotus Lantern is all about drama. It is a journey but it is also about a split family... I think they could do a lot with it even if it might not be the best adaptions I've seen I think they could make a good one.

Maybe even if we get more Erlang backstory and see his lost brother Jiao... that would be so heartbreaking. Show Sanseng Mu and her time bonding with the bothers only to lose it and then start another family, the cycle the same as her mother. And only to lose that family as well. I love just love Lotus Lantern drama but only if everyone is sad equally. And also Wukong being a snarky mentor.