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julibf · 3 months

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Sansa Stark and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight

Prince Aemon Targaryen, the Dragonknight, by Chillyravenart ©

It's very interesting to notice that Sansa absolutely adores the love story between Queen Naerys and her brother Prince Aemon, the brave Knight name will frequently appear on her chapters all over the books. For those who don't know, the rumours tell the story that Prince Aemon was madly in love with his sister Princess Naerys.

Naerys was very close to Aemon but was forced by her father to marry her other brother Aegon the Unworthy. The singers say that Prince Aemon cried during the wedding and Naerys also cried during the bedding ceremony. Some will say that their love was caste and pure and that nothing happened between them, others will swear that Naerys first son, prince Daeron, was from her affair with the Dragonknight. There are several tales and rumours about their relationship.

"Naerys loved Prince Aemon the most out of her two brothers, as he knew how to make her laugh. Aemon was also more like Naerys in character, while Prince Aegon was not. Yet, in 153 AC, Naerys was married to Aegon at their father's orders. The singers like to claim that both Aemon and Naerys wept during the ceremony, but the truth is different: Aemon is known to have quarreled with Aegon during the feast, and Naerys wept during the bedding, not the actual wedding.[1] Prince Aemon joined the Kingsguard soon after the wedding, at the age of seventeen."

So, lets go to the books. Literally in her first chapter of A GAME OF THRONES, we have Sansa comparing Joffrey with Prince Aemon. You can see from the way Sansa talks how much she loves this tale and her hero, the Dragonknight.

"A whole day with her prince! She gazed at Joffrey worshipfully. He was so gallant, she thought. The way he had rescued her from Ser Ilyn and the Hound, why, it was almost like the songs, like the time Serwyn of the Mirror Shield saved the Princess Daeryssa from the giants, or Prince Aemon the Dragonknight championing Queen Naerys's honor against evil Ser Morgil's slanders. (A Game of Thrones - Sansa I)

Later, when Ned Stark informs Sansa that she and Arya are leaving Kings Landing and are going back to Winterfell, she tells him she can not go and compares the love she feels for Joffrey like the love Queen Naerys felt for her brother Prince Aemon.

"Who cares about your stupid dancing master?" Sansa flared. "Father, I only just now remembered, I can't go away, I'm to marry Prince Joffrey." She tried to smile bravely for him. "I love him, Father, I truly truly do, I love him as much as Queen Naerys loved Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, as much as Jonquil loved Ser Florian. I want to be his queen and have his babies."

"Sweet one," her father said gently, "listen to me. When you're old enough, I will make you a match with a high lord who's worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong. This match with Joffrey was a terrible mistake. That boy is no Prince Aemon, you must believe me."(A Game of Thrones - Sansa III)

In A CLASH OF KINGS, when Princess Myrcella is being sent away to Dorne, for her marriage alliance with Prince Trystan, little prince Tommen is crying because he will miss his sister and Sansa tries to console the poor boy telling him the tale of Prince Aemon.

Horns blew fanfares as Lionstar and Lady Lyanna pushed out from shore, moving downriver to clear the way for Seaswift. A few cheers went up from the crush along the banks, as thin and ragged as the clouds scuttling overhead. Myrcella smiled and waved from the deck. Behind her stood Arys Oakheart, his white cloak streaming. The captain ordered lines cast off, and oars pushed the Seaswift out into the lusty current of the Blackwater Rush, where her sails blossomed in the wind—common white sails, as Tyrion had insisted, not sheets of Lannister crimson. Prince Tommen sobbed. "You mew like a suckling babe," his brother hissed at him. "Princes aren't supposed to cry."

"Prince Aemon the Dragonknight cried the day Princess Naerys wed his brother Aegon," Sansa Stark said, "and the twins Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk died with tears on their cheeks after each had given the other a mortal wound." (A Clash of Kings - Tyrion IX)

When Sansa is having nightmares about the riots in Kings Landing and for heroes like the Dragonknight that she calls to save her.

That night Sansa dreamed of the riot again. The mob surged around her, shrieking, a maddened beast with a thousand faces. Everywhere she turned she saw faces twisted into monstrous inhuman masks. She wept and told them she had never done them hurt, yet they dragged her from her horse all the same. "No," she cried, "no, please, don't, don't," but no one paid her any heed. She shouted for Ser Dontos, for her brothers, for her dead father and her dead wolf, for gallant Ser Loras who had given her a red rose once, but none of them came. She called for the heroes from the songs, for Florian and Ser Ryam Redwyne and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, but no one heard. (A Clash of Kings - Sansa IV)

Now we are getting ready for the Blackwater Battle, Sansa has joined Queen Cersei in Maegor's Keep where all the high born ladies are gathered. Cersei is explaining Sansa what happens when a city is sacked and invaded and that many women will be raped and murdered.

"True knights would never harm women and children." The words rang hollow in her ears even as she said them.

"True knights." The queen seemed to find that wonderfully amusing. "No doubt you're right. So why don't you just eat your broth like a good girl and wait for Symeon Star-Eyes and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight to come rescue you, sweetling. I'm sure it won't be very long now." (A Clash of Kings - Sansa V)

Sansa loves the love songs so much that she even cries when she listen the singers telling those sad and romantic tales.

After the meal had been cleared away, many of the guests asked leave to go to the sept. Cersei graciously granted their request. Lady Tanda and her daughters were among those who fled. For those who remained, a singer was brought forth to fill the hall with the sweet music of the high harp. He sang of Jonquil and Florian, of Prince Aemon the Dragonknight and his love for his brother's queen, of Nymeria's ten thousand ships. They were beautiful songs, but terribly sad. Several of the women began to weep, and Sansa felt her own eyes growing moist. (A Clash of Kings - Sansa VI)

For me all those references to Aemon and his Queen Naerys is a big foreshadow of the future romance between Jon and Sansa, not only she doesn't seem to mind the romance between brother and sister, she seems to wish this kind of romance in her life. Funny enough, guess who was trying to be Prince Aemon the Dragonsknight in his childhood plays???? That would be Jon Snow!!!!!

Every morning they had trained together, since they were big enough to walk; Snow and Stark, spinning and slashing about the wards of Winterfell, shouting and laughing, sometimes crying when there was no one else to see. They were not little boys when they fought, but knights and mighty heroes. "I'm PrinceAemon the Dragonknight," Jon would call out, and Robb would shout back, "Well, I'm Florian the Fool" (A Storm of Swords - Jon XII)

And another curious detail I noticed, Maester Aemon at Castle Black was named for the Dragonknight. We all know he was a big influence on Jon's life and he was the one who tells Jon how love is the death of duty!!!!!!

A toothless smile quivered on the ancient lips. "Only a maester of the Citadel, bound in service to Castle Black and the Night's Watch. In my order, we put aside our house names when we take our vows and don the collar." The old man touched the maester's chain that hung loosely around his thin, fleshless neck. "My father was Maekar, the First of his Name, and my brother Aegon reigned after him in my stead. My grandfather named me for Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, who was his uncle, or his father, depending on which tale you believe. Aemon, he called me …" (A Game of Thrones - Jon VIII)

I think Sansa will have NO PROBLEM falling in love with Jon Snow and having a romance with him. He will be her WolfKnight, and there love will be a beautiful song!!!

PS- It feels sooo good writing about ASOIAF, SANSA, JONSA AND ALL again. I missed this a lot, just wished we could get Winds of Winter soon. I want to read about them, not only write metas about future storylines, sigh!!!!!

#sansa stark #jonsa #actually jonsa #jon snow #game of thrones #jon and sansa

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atopvisenyashill · 8 months

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connections between naerys and sansa?

There’s plenty! She’s very much in a Naerys/Aegon scenario in ASOS & ACOK, where she has no ability to leave the capital, no one doing anything meaningful to protect her, and a King that is obsessed with sexually humiliating her. There’s a lot of romanticism and chivalry surrounding her character and how other people react to her character, the same as Naerys.

But also, Sansa makes the comparisons to Naerys herself, and she does it before she realizes what kind of person Joffrey is! In fact, it starts with her very first chapter where she compares Joffrey interrupting Ilyn Payne & Sandor Clegane to Aemon demanding a trial by combat against Ser Morgil:

A whole day with her prince! She gazed at Joffrey worshipfully. He was so gallant, she thought. The way he had rescued her from Ser Ilyn and the Hound, why, it was almost like the songs, like the time Serwyn of the Mirror Shield saved the Princess Daeryssa from the giants, or Prince Aemon the Dragonknight championing Queen Naerys's honor against evil Ser Morgil's slanders.

She will compare Joffrey to Aemon and herself to Naerys again later, to Ned:

"Father, I only just now remembered, I can't go away, I'm to marry Prince Joffrey." She tried to smile bravely for him. "I love him, Father, I truly truly do, I love him as much as Queen Naerys loved Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, as much as Jonquil loved Ser Florian. I want to be his queen and have his babies."

(lowkey she’s so fucking funny for that “i only just now remembered” comment, idk how ned kept a straight face for it)

She then uses Aemon (and the Cargyll twins) to make Tommen feel better and dunk on Joffrey:

Prince Tommen sobbed. "You mew like a suckling babe," his brother hissed at him. "Princes aren't supposed to cry." "Prince Aemon the Dragonknight cried the day Princess Naerys wed his brother Aegon," Sansa Stark said, "and the twins Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk died with tears on their cheeks after each had given the other a mortal wound." "Be quiet, or I'll have Ser Meryn give you a mortal wound," Joffrey told his betrothed.

Again, there’s a focus on Aemon’s romantic relationship with Naerys because that's what appeals to Sansa. But when people say "Sansa sees the world through stories" it's not just about how she romanticizes or idolizes knighthood, nobility, and chivalry - she thinks through information by comparing it with similar historical events or stories and analyzing it. She clearly sees the problem with Loras protecting Margaery from Joffrey by comparing him to the Toynes instead of Aemon, and Joffrey (once again) to Aegon the Unworthy:

She is so brave, Sansa thought, galloping after her . . . and yet, her doubts still gnawed at her. Ser Loras was a great knight, all agreed. But Joffrey had other Kingsguard, and gold cloaks and red cloaks besides, and when he was older he would command armies of his own. Aegon the Unworthy had never harmed Queen Naerys, perhaps for fear of their brother the Dragonknight . . . but when another of his Kingsguard fell in love with one of his mistresses, the king had taken both their heads. Ser Loras is a Tyrell, Sansa reminded herself. That other knight was only a Toyne. His brothers had no armies, no way to avenge him but with swords. Yet the more she thought about it all, the more she wondered. Joff might restrain himself for a few turns, perhaps as long as a year, but soon or late he will show his claws, and when he does . . . The realm might have a second Kingslayer, and there would be war inside the city, as the men of the lion and the men of the rose made the gutters run red.

She’s also not wrong in her assessment here because the Tyrells (my guess is Garlan and Olenna) are so worried about this outcome they just murder Joffrey and install Tommen; like Bethany Bracken, Margaery is groomed (with all the implications that are included in such a loaded term) to be sexually available to the King because her father wants power and doesn't care if his daughter is sexually abused to get it. Like Terrance Toyne, Loras is considered attractive, skilled, and has several brothers more than willing to start a war to avenge his death. I think it's incredibly intuitive that Sansa ultimately comes to the same conclusion as two seasoned political players like (presumably) Olenna and Garlan come to, and she makes this judgement call very quickly!

And Sansa also hits on a lot of (correct) similarities when she makes these comparisons between Joffrey's court and Aegon the Unworthy's court; Aegon and Joffrey both have wild, violent temperaments while being notoriously difficult to control. It’s not just Naerys that attempts to get Aegon to stop marital raping her; Aemon’s useless tears aside, Viserys does do the bare minimum here in sending Aegon away so Naerys can heal from her miscarriages, Daeron got shitty with the Brackens about being tacky over Naerys' marital rape and ill health, Baelor fasts himself to death over Naerys’ miscarriages, etc etc. All of the “authority figures” around Aegon think his behavior is wrong but Aegon proves stubbornly difficult to control or kill. Joffrey falls along these same lines - Cersei, Robert, Tyrion, Tywin, and even Varys all struggle to get some control over Joffrey but like Aegon, he knows once he’s of age and has that crown he doesn’t have to answer for SHIT and stubbornly resists every attempt to curb his behavior. Joffrey is a hell scenario waiting to happen because like Aegon, he’s petty and petulant enough to pull the stunts Aegon pulls like pitting his true born kids against his bastard born ones and causing another violent succession crisis. I say this as like, the ultimate Joffrey Apologist here, lmaooo, he has reasons for being a nasty piece of shit but the Tyrells are right to look at him and go “oh that’s trouble” because he is a ticking time bomb. And the crazy thing is, it’s not just Sansa who compares Joffrey to Aegon the Unworthy:

"A king can have other women. Whores. My father did. One of the Aegons did too. The third one, or the fourth. He had lots of whores and lots of bastards." As they whirled to the music, Joff gave her a moist kiss. "My uncle will bring you to my bed whenever I command it." Sansa shook her head. "He won't." "He will, or I'll have his head. That King Aegon, he had any woman he wanted, whether they were married or no."

Joffrey makes the comparison himself. He's a piece of work just like his hero and he is directly threatening to rape Sansa the same way Aegon raped Naerys and poor Bethany Bracken. He is directly admitting he is "unworthy" and practically daring all of KL to overthrow him for it because he thinks they'll blink before he does (and he is unfortunately deadly wrong in this assumption).

And when you extrapolate out from there, you can see other, similar patterns between Naerys' life and Sansa's, beyond the Joffrey-Aegon, Margaery-Bethany, Loras-Terrance, and Sansa-Naerys parallels. Tyrion himself aspires to be a sort of Viserys II type player (see: "It should have been called the Lives of Five Kings" rant he gives to Oberyn); a power behind the throne directing his crazy family to do what's right or smart or proper. There's an interesting echo in Viserys taking direct action in sending Aegon away from Naerys and Tyrion stopping Joffrey in his assault of Sansa - like Viserys, he can see the monster in the king he is raising, makes an attempt to stop it, but fails because he underestimates just how dangerous and erratic his little king has become. Like Viserys, Tyrion is suspected of poisoning his own nephew in an attempt to get closer to power and the throne (and Viserys, like Tyrion, is probably innocent - the sort of fasting that Baelor was doing regularly is hard on the body!).

I don't think any of this is coincidental or accidental either, because of that haunting scene where Joffrey destroys the gift Tyrion got him. Here's the scene, excuse the wall of text, but it's important:

He plays the gracious king today. Joffrey could be gallant when it suited him, Sansa knew, but it seemed to suit him less and less. Indeed, all his courtesy vanished at once when Tyrion presented him with their own gift: a huge old book called Lives of Four Kings, bound in leather and gorgeously illuminated. The king leafed through it with no interest. "And what is this, Uncle?" A book. Sansa wondered if Joffrey moved those fat wormy lips of his when he read. "Grand Maester Kaeth's history of the reigns of Daeron the Young Dragon, Baelor the Blessed, Aegon the Unworthy, and Daeron the Good," her small husband answered. "A book every king should read, Your Grace," said Ser Kevan. “My father had no time for books.” Joffrey shoved the tome across the table. “If you read less, Uncle Imp, perhaps Lady Sansa would have a baby in her belly by now.” He laughed … and when the king laughs, the court laughs with him. “Don’t be sad, Sansa, once I’ve gotten Queen Margaery with child I’ll visit your bedchamber and show my little uncle how it’s done.” Sansa reddened. She glanced nervously at Tyrion, afraid of what he might say. This could turn as nasty as the bedding had at their own feast. But for once the dwarf filled his mouth with wine instead of words... [Joffrey gets a Valyrian sword and figures out a name for it, Widow's Wail, it's a few pages, it's not relevant here] Joffrey brought Widow’s Wail down in a savage two-handed slice, onto the book that Tyrion had given him. The heavy leather cover parted at a stroke. “Sharp! I told you, I am no stranger to Valyrian steel.” It took him half a dozen further cuts to hack the thick tome apart, and the boy was breathless by the time he was done. Sansa could feel her husband struggling with his fury as Ser Osmund Kettleblack shouted, “I pray you never turn that wicked edge on me, sire.” “See that you never give me cause, ser.” Joffrey flicked a chunk of Lives of Four Kings off the table at swordpoint, then slid Widow’s Wail back into its scabbard. “Your Grace,” Ser Garlan Tyrell said. “Perhaps you did not know. In all of Westeros there were but four copies of that book illuminated in Kaeth’s own hand.” “Now there are three.” Joffrey undid his old swordbelt to don his new one. “You and Lady Sansa owe me a better present, Uncle Imp. This one is all chopped to pieces.”

God I love that passage so much. There's a lot there but what's relevant is a) both Oberyn and Garlan are trying to get a measure of who Joffrey is, and have some child murdering plans potentially in the works during this scene. Watching Joffrey destroy a priceless tome of history given as a well thought, well meant, incredibly generous (and pointed) gift from his uncle is more than enough proof for either man to decide Joffrey is not worth the headache, and please note Garlan is the only person to call Joffrey out to his face, and Oberyn is a few pages later the only person to acknowledge this was a fantastic and kind gift from Tyrion that Joffrey reacted absolutely deranged towards for no reason. and b) Tyrion is almost literally saying to Joffrey "I can be your Viserys, I can make it so you're remembered as a great king the way Daeron II or Baelor are, or a great warrior like Daeron I, but you have to understand the reason why I'm worried about your behavior" and Joffrey does the most destructive, unworthy thing he can possibly do - he quite literally destroys priceless, useful historical knowledge and wisdom with his bare hands, in favor of senseless, petulant violence. As Catelyn would say, Joffrey's real bride is not Margaery, but the war he's fighting and the crown on his head.

All of this to say - there's a lot of parallels between Sansa's situation in KL and Naery's life and these parallels are drawn not only by Sansa herself, but also by several people around her. However, I hope for better things for Sansa than what poor Naerys got - I hope for an Aemon the Dragonknight that will do more than just cry while she's raped, but actually step into that room and defend her, or else give her the power to defend herself. Despite the long wait for The Winds of Winter, I also think it's likely we will get some sort of Dragonknight, devoted sworn sword for Sansa and this person will help protect her, and Sansa will have agency that Naerys could only ever dream of.

#valyrianscrolls #sansa stark #naerys targaryen #aemon the dragonknight #aegon the unworthy #joffrey baratheon #tyrion lannister #margaery tyrell #loras tyrell #olenna tyrell #garlan tyrell #terrence toyne #bethany bracken #courtly and chivalric love #i'm not knocking tyrion for not quite seeing how dangerous joffrey is. *no one* sees it bc Systemic Patriarchy and Feudal Violence.#whether its brienne arya jon bronze yohn fucking podrick i do believe we will get a knight for sansa tho!!!#once again sorry this took so long. i had a lot more to say than i expected.#also. thank you so much for this ask this was sooooooooo much fun to write out. we are analyzing themes babeeeeee #getting on my soap box #knighthood and oath keeping #true knights #fuck i think that's all my tags #i had another section about how the show really styles her to look pale and sickly during season 3 and 4 but i had trouble phrasing it #so i just cut it. but that scene where margaery gives her the red and yellow rose and sansa looks like death? naerys vibes fr!!!#naerys and sansa parallels #jon and the aemons

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daenystheedreamer · 5 months

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Top 5 extremely minor characters?🤔

oooo i gotta go with wenda the white fawn wylla manderly willow heddle of course. but wylla and willow DO have speaking roles thats not minor enough. i will be listing these in order of least to most minor

5. DANELLE LOTHSTON ms bathory and dragonseed tease... mentioned a couple times in relation to harrenhal and mentioned in d&e. this makes her a main character in my eyes compared to some of the minor minor minor characters of planetos

4. WENDA THE WHITE FAWN of the kingswood brotherhood actually mentioned in the main series more than once. branding merrett frey on the ass lmfao QUEEN

3. POXY JEYNE POORE mx joan of arc of westeros yasss. maegor executing her for being a witch when his mother is visenya and his wife is tyanna. lmfao. not mentioned in the main series but DOES get extensive (a scene.) coverage in f&b.

2. PRINCESS DAERYSSA only ever mentioned by sansa in AGOT and possibly intended to be a targ until grrm figured out his timeline. early instalment weirdness. serwyn of the mirror shield got retconned/mythologised into a kingsguard member and mentioned in twoiaf and by several characters in asoiaf but daeryssa never gets mentioned anywhere again. people's princess baby I remember you

finally URSULA UPCLIFF random coming of the andals character only mentioned in twoiaf not important to anything at all. witch who said she was wed to the merling king and fought on the side of the first men. won over by robar royce's "honeyed tongue" which may be about him being charismatic or maybe he got down on his damn knees and ate her pussy out like she deserved. had her head ripped off by torgold tollett (omg dolorous edd tease!!!) and he had to jump on her blood red horse to do it. and her name is probably either a reference to ursula littlemermaid (she's from house upcliffe which has the sea as their sigil and they're from WITCH ISLE.) or ursula k le guin either of which is iconic

#ask #rbwannabe #all women cos fuck men 🖕

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butterflies-dragons · 2 months

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Hi! What are your favourite quotes/moments that showcase Sansa’s romanticism? 😊

Here we go:

Alone and humiliated, Sansa took the long way back to the inn, where she knew Septa Mordane would be waiting. Lady padded quietly by her side. She was almost in tears. All she wanted was for things to be nice and pretty, the way they were in the songs. Why couldn't Arya be sweet and delicate and kind, like Princess Myrcella? She would have liked a sister like that. —A Game of Thrones - Sansa I

~~~

"Joffrey, perhaps you would be so kind as to entertain our guest today." "It would be my pleasure, Mother," Joffrey said very formally. He took her by the arm and led her away from the wheelhouse, and Sansa's spirits took flight. A whole day with her prince! She gazed at Joffrey worshipfully. He was so gallant, she thought. The way he had rescued her from Ser Ilyn and the Hound, why, it was almost like the songs, like the time Serwyn of the Mirror Shield saved the Princess Daeryssa from the giants, or Prince Aemon the Dragonknight championing Queen Naerys's honor against evil Ser Morgil's slanders. The touch of Joffrey's hand on her sleeve made her heart beat faster. "What would you like to do?" —A Game of Thrones - Sansa I

~~~

Sansa rode to the Hand's tourney with Septa Mordane and Jeyne Poole, in a litter with curtains of yellow silk so fine she could see right through them. They turned the whole world gold. Beyond the city walls, a hundred pavilions had been raised beside the river, and the common folk came out in the thousands to watch the games. The splendor of it all took Sansa's breath away; the shining armor, the great chargers caparisoned in silver and gold, the shouts of the crowd, the banners snapping in the wind … and the knights themselves, the knights most of all. "It is better than the songs," she whispered when they found the places that her father had promised her, among the high lords and ladies. Sansa was dressed beautifully that day, in a green gown that brought out the auburn of her hair, and she knew they were looking at her and smiling. They watched the heroes of a hundred songs ride forth, each more fabulous than the last. —A Game of Thrones - Sansa II

~~~

To the other maidens he had given white roses, but the one he plucked for her was red. "Sweet lady," he said, "no victory is half so beautiful as you." Sansa took the flower timidly, struck dumb by his gallantry. His hair was a mass of lazy brown curls, his eyes like liquid gold. She inhaled the sweet fragrance of the rose and sat clutching it long after Ser Loras had ridden off. —A Game of Thrones - Sansa II

~~~

Lord Baelish stroked his little pointed beard and said, "Nothing? Tell me, child, why would you have sent Ser Loras?" Sansa had no choice but to explain about heroes and monsters. The king's councillor smiled. "Well, those are not the reasons I'd have given, but …" He had touched her cheek, his thumb lightly tracing the line of a cheekbone. "Life is not a song, sweetling. You may learn that one day to your sorrow." Sansa did not feel like telling all that to Jeyne, however; it made her uneasy just to think back on it. —A Game of Thrones - Sansa III

~~~

Perhaps I will die too, she told herself, and the thought did not seem so terrible to her. If she flung herself from the window, she could put an end to her suffering, and in the years to come the singers would write songs of her grief. Her body would lie on the stones below, broken and innocent, shaming all those who had betrayed her. Sansa went so far as to cross the bedchamber and throw open the shutters … but then her courage left her, and she ran back to her bed, sobbing. —A Game of Thrones - Sansa VI

~~~

"Better if we are never seen together." Nodding, Sansa took a step . . . then spun back, nervous, and softly laid a kiss on his cheek, her eyes closed. "My Florian," she whispered. "The gods heard my prayer." She flew along the river walk, past the small kitchen, and through the pig yard, her hurried footsteps lost beneath the squealing of the hogs in their pens. Home, she thought, home, he is going to take me home, he'll keep me safe, my Florian. The songs about Florian and Jonquil were her very favorites. Florian was homely too, though not so old. —A Clash of Kings - Sansa II

~~~

"I'm honest. It's the world that's awful. Now fly away, little bird, I'm sick of you peeping at me." Wordless, she fled. She was afraid of Sandor Clegane . . . and yet, some part of her wished that Ser Dontos had a little of the Hound's ferocity. There are gods, she told herself, and there are true knights too. All the stories can't be lies. That night Sansa dreamed of the riot again. The mob surged around her, shrieking, a maddened beast with a thousand faces. Everywhere she turned she saw faces twisted into monstrous inhuman masks. She wept and told them she had never done them hurt, yet they dragged her from her horse all the same. "No," she cried, "no, please, don't, don't," but no one paid her any heed. She shouted for Ser Dontos, for her brothers, for her dead father and her dead wolf, for gallant Ser Loras who had given her a red rose once, but none of them came. She called for the heroes from the songs, for Florian and Ser Ryam Redwyne and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, but no one heard. Women swarmed over her like weasels, pinching her legs and kicking her in the belly, and someone hit her in the face and she felt her teeth shatter. Then she saw the bright glimmer of steel. The knife plunged into her belly and tore and tore and tore, until there was nothing left of her down there but shiny wet ribbons. —A Clash of Kings - Sansa IV

~~~

Ser Dontos disappeared. She could hear him huffing and puffing as he began the descent. Sansa listened to the tolling of the bell, counting each ring. At ten, gingerly, she eased herself over the edge of the cliff, poking with her toes until they found a place to rest. The castle walls loomed large above her, and for a moment she wanted nothing so much as to pull herself up and run back to her warm rooms in the Kitchen Keep. Be brave, she told herself. Be brave, like a lady in a song. —A Storm of Swords - Sansa V

~~~

Her maid rolled herself more tightly in her blanket as the snow began to drift in the window. Sansa eased open the door, and made her way down the winding stair. When she opened the door to the garden, it was so lovely that she held her breath, unwilling to disturb such perfect beauty. The snow drifted down and down, all in ghostly silence, and lay thick and unbroken on the ground. All color had fled the world outside. It was a place of whites and blacks and greys. White towers and white snow and white statues, black shadows and black trees, the dark grey sky above. A pure world, Sansa thought. I do not belong here. Yet she stepped out all the same. Her boots tore ankle-deep holes into the smooth white surface of the snow, yet made no sound. Sansa drifted past frosted shrubs and thin dark trees, and wondered if she were still dreaming. Drifting snowflakes brushed her face as light as lover's kisses, and melted on her cheeks. At the center of the garden, beside the statue of the weeping woman that lay broken and half-buried on the ground, she turned her face up to the sky and closed her eyes. She could feel the snow on her lashes, taste it on her lips. It was the taste of Winterfell. The taste of innocence. The taste of dreams. When Sansa opened her eyes again, she was on her knees. She did not remember falling. It seemed to her that the sky was a lighter shade of grey. Dawn, she thought. Another day. Another new day. It was the old days she hungered for. Prayed for. But who could she pray to? The garden had been meant for a godswood once, she knew, but the soil was too thin and stony for a weirwood to take root. A godswood without gods, as empty as me. —A Storm of Swords - Sansa VII

~~~

Alayne took Robert's gloved hand in her own to stop his shaking. "Sweetrobin," she said, "I'm scared. Hold my hand, and help me get across. I know you're not afraid." He looked at her, his pupils small dark pinpricks in eyes as big and white as eggs. "I'm not?" "Not you. You're my winged knight, Ser Sweetrobin." "The Winged Knight could fly," Robert whispered. "Higher than the mountains." She gave his hand a squeeze. Lady Myranda had joined them by the spire. "He could," she echoed, when she saw what was happening. "Ser Sweetrobin," Lord Robert said, and Alayne knew that she dare not wait for Mya to return. She helped the boy dismount, and hand in hand they walked out onto the bare stone saddle, their cloaks snapping and flapping behind them. All around was empty air and sky, the ground falling away sharply to either side. There was ice underfoot, and broken stones just waiting to turn an ankle, and the wind was howling fiercely. It sounds like a wolf, thought Sansa. A ghost wolf, big as mountains. —A Feast for Crows - Alayne II

~~~

It was clever. The tourney, the prizes, the winged knights, it had all been her own notion. Lord Robert's mother had filled him full of fears, but he always took courage from the tales she read him of Ser Artys Arryn, the Winged Knight of legend, founder of his line. Why not surround him with Winged Knights? She had thought one night, after Sweetrobin had finally drifted off to sleep. His own Kingsguard, to keep him safe and make him brave. And no sooner did she tell Petyr her idea than he went out and made it happen. He will want to be there to greet Ser Harrold. Where could he have gone? —The Winds of Winter - Alayne I

~~~

Thanks for your message ❤️

#anon asks #sansa stark #romanticism

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goodqueenaly · 1 year

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Absolutely here for the way Sansa turns from using the story of Prince Aemon and Queen Naerys to idealize Joffrey (and, so she believes in that moment, her love for him) to using the story of Aemon and Queen Naerys to defend someone against Joffrey's abuse

Sansa first cites the romanticized history in AGOT, as the royal party travels near the ruby ford back to the capital:

The way he had rescued her from Ser Ilyn and the Hound, why, it was almost like the songs, like the time Serwyn of the Mirror Shield saved the Princess Daeryssa from the giants, or Prince Aemon the Dragonknight championing Queen Naerys's honor against evil Ser Morgil's slanders.

If Sansa's history is generally right here (at least regarding the verifiably historical figures she references), her allusion fails to accurately reflect her own situation. Far from Prince Aemon defying his royal brother's clumsy attempt to invent an almost certainly untrue accusation against their queen-sister by offering to stand as her champion in a trial by combat, Prince Joffrey had only followed the directions of the queen herself to go to Sansa, and later spend the day with her. Nor does either Ilyn Payne or Sandor Clegane really fit the role of Morgil Hastwyck, who had openly denounced the queen as a traitor and participant in an extramarital affair with Aemon himself: Joffrey in fact brags to Sansa that Sandor is his "dog" (or, as he allows, his mother's dog), obedient and "ever faithful" to the prince's command, and if Sandor had made a dry joke about the Stark direwolves, neither he nor the unwillingly mute Ilyn had actually falsely accused Sansa of anything, much less a crime for which the penalty was death (as Naerys had been accused). Indeed, though Sansa could not have known it in this moment, it would not be Joffrey who, Aemon-like, would intervene to save the life and honor of Sansa by confronting an antagonist knight in single combat, but Joffrey who would himself direct Ser Ilyn to crush and traumatize Sansa via the order for her father's head; likewise, it would be Sandor Clegane, very pointedly not a knight, who would intervene to help Sansa, as Joffrey gloried in the killing of Ned Stark and directed another one of his knights to abuse Sansa.

Later in AGOT, as Sansa still believes she loves Joffrey, she again uses Naerys and Aemon’s (supposed) romance:

"I love him, Father, I truly truly do, I love him as much as Queen Naerys loved Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, as much as Jonquil loved Ser Florian. I want to be his queen and have his babies."

Here, however, Sansa's allusion to Aemon and Naerys even less resembles the real-world history, much less her own situation. If Aemon and Naerys really did love one another (and I think they did, putting aside the very obvious criticisms of Aemon's position in the Kingsguard relative to Naerys' woeful position as queen), I definitely do not believe they ever engaged in a sexual affair, much less that the future Daeron II was the product of such an affair. (In fact, it was Naerys who had approached her father to prevent the marriage and her brother to end it after the birth of Daeron - hardly an auspicious example for Sansa.) To be clear, Sansa is I think only repeating the romanticized tale passed down by singers and storytellers for the better part of 150 years - yet even without a true sense of historical accuracy, Sansa's citation to Aemon and Naerys little supports her actual relationship with Joffrey. Indeed, far from the beau ideal of chivalry which Aemon the Dragonknight has come to represent in Westerosi culture, Joffrey instead more closely resembles Aegon IV - abusive, cruel, and hateful, eager for any humiliation great or petty (and especially sexual) which he could inflict upon his betrothed, much as Aegon had done toward Naerys. The story of Aemon and Naerys persists in Westerosi culture, moreover, in no small part because it is a doomed and tragic romance - an impossible love which neither queen nor prince could satisfy in their respective positions, clouded by a suspicious, malicious king. If Sansa had wished to cast herself and Joffrey as perfect lovers destined by their love to be together, her choice of story accomplishes precisely the opposite; to the extent that she and Joffrey will resemble this story, it will be with Sansa as the miserable princess doomed to marry the king and Joffrey as the king who causes her such misery.

So in ACOK, well aware of Joffrey's sadism and patterns of abuse, Sansa again reaches for the example of Aemon and Naerys - not, though, to laud Joffrey, but to support another against him:

Whatever the historical accuracy of her statement - Yandel reporting that "[t]he singers say that Aemon and Naerys both wept during the ceremony, though the histories tell us Aemon quarreled with Aegon at the wedding feast, and that Naerys wept during the bedding rather than the wedding" - Sansa seizes here on a pointedly apt moment from the story of Aemon and Naerys, as a direct counter to Joffrey's sneering criticism of his brother. Just as the occasion of his sister's marriage had (again, so the singers relate) been the cause of brother Aemon's tears, so now Tommen weeps to see his own only sister depart for her marriage. Nor does the parallel end there: here again, as in the days of Aemon and Naerys, are there three royal siblings, two brothers and a sister - and if neither Myrcella nor Tommen are exact duplicates of Naerys and Aemon, both live in shadow of an abusive and cruel eldest brother. Sansa takes the opportunity of Joffrey's attempt to hurt and demean Tommen by providing so admired an example of Tommen's very conduct. If even Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, popularly beloved for his (apparent) chivalry, bravery, and nobility, could have been seen to weep at his sister's nuptial parting without losing any of his celebrated standing, then how could Joffrey, so Sansa argues through this allusion, criticize Tommen in nearly the exact same circumstance? Just as Sansa had used (invented) singer mythology to defend Dontos Hollard from Joffrey's brutality, so now she cites the legend of Prince Aemon, preserved in song, to stand up for Tommen against the same.

#asoiaf meta #sansa stark #aemon the dragonknight #naerys targaryen #joffrey baratheon #aegon iv targaryen

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dyannawynnedayne · 3 months

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Round Two: Which character parallel is your favorite?

Jon and Sansa: art by elenyaart, Jon and Sansa

Sam and Brienne: by @shebsart (1, 2)

Propaganda is encouraged!

Jon and Sansa

Fanciful

Every morning they had trained together, since they were big enough to walk; Snow and Stark, spinning and slashing about the wards of Winterfell, shouting and laughing, sometimes crying when there was no one else to see. They were not little boys when they fought, but knights and mighty heroes. “I’m Prince Aemon the Dragonknight,” Jon would call out, and Robb would shout back, “Well, I’m Florian the Fool.” Or Robb would say, “I’m the Young Dragon,” and Jon would reply, “I’m Ser Ryam Redwyne."

ASOS, Jon XII

She gazed at Joffrey worshipfully. He was so gallant, she thought. The way he had rescued her from Ser Ilyn and the Hound, why, it was almost like the songs, like the time Serwyn of the Mirror Shield saved the Princess Daeryssa from the giants, or Prince Aemon the Dragonknight championing Queen Naerys's honor against evil Ser Morgil's slanders.

AGOT, Sansa I

Sam and Brienne

Persisting in dire circumstances

Sobbing, Sam took another step.

ASOS Samwell I

Seven, Brienne thought again, despairing. She had nochance against seven, she knew. Nochance, andnochoice. She stepped out into the rain, Oathkeeper in hand.

AFFC Brienne VII

#fave parallel poll #round two #group a

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greenbloods · 3 months

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Rereading some passages from A Game of Thrones it's shocking the sheer amount of worldbuilding these books have from the get-go

Bran was going to be a knight himself someday, one of the Kingsguard. Old Nan said they were the finest swords in all the realm. There were only seven of them, and they wore white armor and had no wives or children, but lived only to serve the king. Bran knew all the stories. Their names were like music to him. Serwyn of the Mirror Shield. Ser Ryam Redwyne. Prince Aemon the Dragonknight. The twins Ser Erryk and Ser Arryk, who had died on one another's swords hundreds of years ago, when brother fought sister in the war the singers called the Dance of the Dragons. The White Bull, Gerold Hightower. Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. Barristan the Bold. --AGOT, Bran II

the cargyll twins and the dance are mentioned in the second ever Bran chapter

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jackoshadows · 1 year

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A few of the leaders and fighters that the Stark kids admired....

"Daeren Targaryen was only fourteen when he conquered Dorne," Jon said. The Young Dragon was one of his heroes. - Jon, AGoT They were not little boys when they fought, but knights and mighty heroes. "I'm Prince Aemon the Dragonknight," Jon would call out, and Robb would shout back, "Well, I'm Florian the Fool." Or Robb would say, "I'm the Young Dragon," and Jon would reply, "I'm Ser Ryam Redwyne." - Jon, ASoS When the Young Dragon conquered Dorne, he used a goat track to bypass the Dornish watchtowers on the Boneway." When Jon had been a boy at Winterfell, his hero had been the Young Dragon, the boy king who had conquered Dorne at the age of fourteen. Despite his bastard birth, or perhaps because of it, Jon Snow had dreamed of leading men to glory just as King Daeron had, of growing up to be a conqueror. - Jon, ADwD

Bran was going to be a knight himself someday, one of the Kingsguard. Old Nan said they were the finest swords in all the realm. Their names were like music to him. Serwyn of the Mirror Shield. Ser Ryam Redwyne. Prince Aemon the Dragonknight. - Bran, AGoT "I just forget," Bran complained. "I'm only nine. I'll be better when I'm older. Even Florian the Fool and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight weren't great knights when they were nine." - Bran, ASoS

Q: In particular, given that Nymeria was a warrior-queen, is there a certain amazon tradition? A: “The Rhoynar did impact Dorne in a number of ways, some of which will be revealed in later books. Women definitely have more rights in Dorne, but I would not call it an “Amazon” tradition, necessarily. Nymeria had more in common with someone like Daenerys or Joan d'Arc than with Brienne or Xena the Warrior Princess.” - GRRM

Arya named hers (Direwolf) after some old witch queen in the songs - Bran, AGoT

#Jon Snow #Robb Stark #Arya Stark #Bran Stark

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g0lightly · 1 month

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tinfoil-encrusted brienne/sansa "foreshadowing" that makes me feral

so i love the blog @jonsaforeshadowing bc i think it's such a fun look at shipper goggles in this fandom regardless of your thoughts on that particular ship. while i do not ship j*nsa i think it's healthy to remember how absurd shipping in asoiaf is even if (especially if?) you are a shipper! largely bc like... what do we even think of as endgame in this series? being married? we know not everyone who marries in a feudal system even likes the person they're married to. also... pretty much anyone could die! and so many characters are thematically linked in significant ways that aren't necessarily romantic! so i think there's a ceiling on how sure anyone can be of any ship being endgame. especially since we may never get another main series book lmfao! so just want to be clear that i'm not coming at this from an angle of knowing better than people who prefer other ships, we are all equally right and wrong unless/until the series is completed IMO.

in that spirit i wanted to post my own niche shipper theories in wildly varying degrees of seriousness about brienne/sansa because i believe in gay ships' right to be as delusional as straight ships. mostly for fun but i'd being lying if i said i don't hope you read this and think "oh i never thought of them together but this eats! i should start shipping the one true pairing briensa and also read tumblr user g0lightly's post-canon fanfic mostly about them on AO3 🤔" while they’re my otp, I want to be clear that I only ship them as adults.

starting strong with the dumbest one: brienne's ancestor dunk has a romance with rohanne webber, a redheaded woman who has had several husbands/betrotheds die on her and eventually marries a lannister like sansa. i know ppl say this is about jaime bc rohanne is his great-grandmother but in the spirit of getting silly with "foreshadowing" jaime is now a sansa stand-in for the purposes of this post 🙂‍↕️

in AGOT sansa i, sansa says that joffrey is "so gallant, she thought. The way he had rescued her from Ser Ilyn and the Hound, why, it was almost like the songs, like the time Serwyn of the Mirror Shield saved the Princess Daeryssa from the giants..." as ned later points out, joffrey is nothing like the knights of the songs sansa dreams of. littlefinger's sigil is a giant. serwyn is one letter off from selwyn, brienne's father's name. perhaps brienne will help sansa get away from littlefinger.

mirroring (ha) the above point, in AFFC brienne vii, randyll tarly gives a whole speech to brienne about how he thinks her father would rather have a living daughter than a "shattered shield." while i think the shattered shield imagery in this text (also in F&B when jaehaerys has saera's lover executed and in ACOK sansa vi when cersei talks about highborn ladies' "golden shield" against SA) represents a "ruined" woman, i think the imagery is also evocative of a mirror shield.

in AGOT sansa vi, sansa reads about aemon the dragonknight, florian and jonquil, lady shella and her rainbow knight. sansa is related to lady shella whent and in ACOK brienne becomes a rainbow knight for renly's kingsguard. i can see brienne mirroring aemon the dragonknight in the sense that she and sansa would have a forbidden love like aemon and naerys but for different reasons.

in ACOK sansa ii, sansa prays for a true knight and a friend to champion her. of course, she gets dontos as her "florian" instead and learns that life is not a song. later in catelyn ii, catelyn meets brienne who later swears herself to bringing sansa to safety. catelyn notes her similarities to sansa. brienne is also connected to jonquil through her maidenpool chapters; does this mean sansa will end up with a jonquil rather than a florian? perhaps a jonquil darke type? idk but i want to believe!

also in ACOK, both brienne and sansa hang onto bloody kingsguard cloaks that were technicaly supposed to belong to barristan selmy. i have written about this in far greater detail here and here.

jaime is a sansa stand-in because they are both maiden-coded and called kingslayers (this is a deeply unserious point btw)

speaking of jaime, his attraction to brienne mirrors sansa's possible attraction to mya. both sansa and jaime are conventionally attractive characters used to being praised for conforming to their gender roles reckoning with the beauty of a gender-nonconforming woman when they have come to understand their own beauty through a conventional framework. i have also written about this in greater detail.

both sansa and brienne are paired up with a lannister twin who holds the gendered societal role they aspire to (queen and knight of the kingsguard, respectively). their respective lannister twins show them the dark reality of those roles while brienne and sansa fight to remain hopeful.

famous lesbian rhaena targaryen was too gay with larissa velaryon so larissa got shipped off to marry the second son of tarth. she also had a favorite from the vale named alayne royce. she also had a red-haired, mail-wearing favorite named melony piper - kind of like an inverse of brienne and sansa visually. her true love, elissa farman, was from fair isle which is kind of like the west coast version of tarth; they also had the same age difference as brienne and sansa. rhaena was the eldest sister, like sansa, and dealt with a lot of loss in her life due in no small part to the strength of her claim making her a sought-after bride. i am aware this proves nothing but i do seriously think rhaena is the in-universe historic figure sansa is most like. gay sansa confirmed!!!!!!!! (jk... unless...)

and finally, i present what is either my most tinfoil hat theory or my oh-shit-i-cracked-the-code theory: brienne is foreshadowed to be the next bearer of the hound's helm so when GRRM said there's "something there" with sansa and the hound, he was actually talking about brienne and sansa :) if you enjoy the idea of sansa finding love and beauty in a brave, gentle, strong protector figure with low self-esteem whose face is covered in scars but you also (very reasonably!) hate the idea of her ending up with a man who held her at knifepoint and tried to SA her when she was a child, may i suggest hound!brienne x sansa? again, on an age appropriate timeline!

and if you're curious what i mean by hound!brienne foreshadowing and shattered shield references, i've included my running list of quotes, an analysis of those quotes, and a conclusion below the cut bc this post is long! TW for canon-typical references to sexual violence.

i think the references to brienne being "the hound with teats" and later references to the hound cutting off women's teats may connect to pretty meris, a sellsword with the windblown who is theorized to represent what GRRM had planned for brienne after the five year skip. quentyn notes that it's said that men cut meris' breasts off. if this hardened sellsword is some version of GRRM's original five year gap plan for brienne, who's to say that she won't be the hound instead of a sellsword in the forthcoming books? but that's assuming we'll get more books lmao.

the threat of SA is uncomfortably present in brienne's AFFC chapters. whether or not brienne experiences the types of gendered violence mentioned above, i think that the hound's helm would provide brienne with safety from that threat of SA on the road. for male characters, on the other hand, it may just draw more attention from people who wish to kill the hound for (mostly) rorge's crimes. there is a lot of talk across the books and across POVs about the hound being dead. you get tyrion describing him as dead after the blackwater when we know that's not true, septon meribald (which kinda sounds like meris now that i think of it 🤔) tells brienne that he is dead, jaime talks a lot with the freys and lannisters about killing the hound. there's also a lot of talk about the hound killing other people, namely brienne and sansa.

since it's all but confirmed that sandor clegane is now the gravedigger on the quiet isle rather than the hound, i think that "death" in the context of the hound is about letting your old self die so that the new you may be born. brienne needs to let her rigid ideals about what it means to be a knight die and sansa needs to let her rigid ideals about what it means to be a lady die. i think that lady's death at least partly symbolizes the fact that sansa can be a perfect lady and still face dire consequences through no fault of her own. and for brienne, she will most likely learn through lady stoneheart that not all oaths can be kept.

some people take the below quote as romantic foreshadowing for sansa and sandor. i take it to mean that to sansa, sandor and his cloak represent the opportunity she had to escape the life of a dutiful lady in a castle. perhaps brienne will wear the hound's helm when she rescues sansa, and sansa will give her the hound's cloak -- brienne's very own kingsguard cloak -- to complete the "uniform" of the hound.

i also want to offer my debunk to the idea that sansa keeping sandor's cloak is marriage imagery. sandor does not give his cloak to sansa, he does not put it over her shoulders as is done in a wedding ceremony. he leaves it on the ground because he does not want to be a member of the kingsguard anymore. sansa chooses to wrap herself in the kingsguard cloak. to me, this signifies her growing disillusionment in the systems set up to keep her safe and the autonomy she has to leave that system. perhaps she will be brave enough to ask brienne to take her away from the eyrie (or wherever she ends up) when they meet (again, assuming we get more books lmao).

i think it's relevant that sandor's place in the kingsguard - and by extension, the cloak as a symbol - had originally belonged to barristan selmy. i did a thread on this in relation to true knighthood and brienne if you're interested in reading more. sansa has a heroic deed in common with barristan selmy that also involves the hound in ACOK: like barristan, she saved dontos hollard from execution by a cruel king that she was sworn to. sansa was sworn to joffrey as his betrothed and barristan was sworn to aerys as a member of his kingsguard. i'm not even anti-sandor, i just don't think that his redemption arc needs to or should include the girl he held at knifepoint falling in romantic love with him.

to conclude with my point about characters having deep ties within the text not necessarily equaling romantic foreshadowing, i want to acknowledge that i don't think brienne and sansa need to have a romantic relationship for these textual connections to be meaningful. one way another i think these two are meant to be important to one another's stories. however i think that putting these two together romantically would be a beautiful way to tie together some key themes (gender, true knighthood, romanticism, idealism) and set up some really interesting character development.

however the romantic in me loves the idea of the aemon the dragonknight figure in sansa's life being a woman, specifically brienne who has sworn to defend her without even knowing her. they're both women, so there's nothing for brienne to gain from sansa's claim and nothing for sansa to gain from brienne's claim. brienne is the gentle, brave, and strong person ned wanted for sansa and catelyn sent her in sansa's direction and i think that's beautiful okay :')

#asoiaf crack #asoiaf meta #asoiaf shipper nonsense #asoiaf shitpost #briensa #briennsa #brienne x sansa #sansa x brienne #queer sansa stark #lesbian sansa stark #asoiaf fandom meta #anti jonsa #hound!brienne #brienne of tarth #sansa stark #anti sansan #i don't like to yuck yums with ships but ... i can't not be critical of a ship where a grown man tried to SA a child. sorry not sorry.#like if you can't be reminded of canonical facts about that ship it's not my problem

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asoiafreadthru · 10 months

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A Game of Thrones, Bran II

Bran was going to be a knight himself someday, one of the Kingsguard.

Old Nan said they were the finest swords in all the realm. There were only seven of them, and they wore white armor and had no wives or children, but lived only to serve the king.

Bran knew all the stories. Their names were like music to him.

Serwyn of the Mirror Shield.

Ser Ryam Redwyne.

Prince Aemon the Dragonknight.

The twins Ser Erryk and Ser Arryk, who had died on one another’s swords hundreds of years ago, when brother fought sister in the war the singers called the Dance of the Dragons.

The White Bull, Gerold Hightower.

Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning.

Barristan the Bold.

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horizon-verizon · 20 days

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The KLers didn't love-Helaena in the way of true appreciation of the person but more as a representation of their own fear and vulnerability. Then as representing their own victimhood and fear for their families'/selves' lives.

As for the "Queen" thing:

(Webpage Link)

When I read GRRM's deleted post, it was clear that Helaena was "loved" by the smallfolk and after her death the riots following. Esp that Rhaenyra at the time was not.

These are the passages of 1) why the KLers didn't "love" Rhaenyra and 2) Helaena's death and the riots that ensued:

("Rhaenyra Triumphant")

At this point, Helaena is NOT dead yet. We get "bastard blood shed in war", Aemond burning down the riverlands esp the Trident, Ser Byron Swann and Serwyn of the Mirror Shield attempting to kill a dragon and Swann dying for it, Criston Cole's death, The First Sack of Tumbleton, the order for Nettles' death (not necesarily God Eye, just the order for her death, Addam's escape, and Corlys' arrest), Maelor's death near Bitterbridge even before that, and the Shepherd's first "preachings" all occur BEFORE Helaena kills herself. And the taxes stuff happen days after she and Daemon take back KL, which is WAY BEFORE all the events I listed here.

("Rhaenyra Triumphant") This is what happens after Rhaenyra orders Nettles' death and before the Shepherd appears.

("Rhaenyra Overthrown")

It is after Corlys would-be rescuers are hung up to die that Helaena finally kills herself.

This is just before the actual riots where Bartimos Celtigar was killed and castrated and a Deddings noble woman was seemingly almost raped by some men who killed her protecting brother.

("Rhaenyra Overthrown") Again, the KLer's response to Helaena's death:

Like a quote above says, "After HALF A YEAR of captivity, why should Aegon's queen [Helaena] choose this night to end her life?" The first time the smallfolk really are told to us to dislike or hate Rhaenyra was when she did those taxes and had several public executions that charged people who wanted to witness said executions or were pushed to.

I am not saying that the KLers' didn't rise up in response to Helaena's death and that there was some love for her...but it was hardly the primary reason why they hated Rhaenyra, rioted, or that Helaena's person wasn't used to foment their already-existing frustrations, resentments, fear, and outrage against Rhaenyra. Her death--and before that--were used to stoke the burning wood built partially by Rhaenyra herself and partially by circumstances deliberately created by the greens themselves, which the smallfolk didn't know about. All they knew was that Rhaenyra was raising taxes, she put up those executions, she was the one in KL.

#grrm #rhaenyra targaryen #fire and blood characters #helaena targaryen #smallfolk #westerosi history #rhaenyra and helaena #rhaenyra's taxes #king's landing taxes #fire and blood #asoiaf

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kellyvela · 2 years

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"The way he had rescued her from Ser Ilyn and the Hound, why, it was almost like the songs, like the time Serwyn of the Mirror Shield saved the Princess Daeryssa from the giants, or Prince Aemon the Dragonknight championing Queen Naerys's honor against evil Ser Morgil's slanders."- Sansa(AGOT I). It's interesting that Sansa compared Joffery 'saving' her with these heroes who are Jon coded. Ser Serwyn saved the princess Daeryssa from giants and killed a dragon by tricking it. Aemon killed Morghil who was slandering his sister/lover Naerys in a trial. What do you think?

This is JoJo. My never written meta....

Jon and Joffrey are kinda switched at birth. Jon is the secret son of the Crown Prince Rhaegar Targaryen, that is disguised as a bastard of his mother's brother Ned Stark (his maternal uncle/foster father), while Joffrey is the secret son of his mother's brother Jaime Lannister (his biological father/maternal uncle) disguised as the Crown Prince, son of King Robert Baratheon.

Jon's mother Lyanna Stark was betrothed with Robert Baratheon but was abducted/eloped by/with Prince Rhaegar Targaryen.

Joffrey's mother Cersei Lannister wanted to marry Prince Rhaegar Targaryen but in the end she married King Robert Baratheon.

Jon's biological father (Rhaegar) and Joffrey's "foster" father (Robert) "loved" Lyanna Stark.

Robert killed Rhaegar because of Lyanna.

Jon is living Joffrey's life as a noble bastard while Joffrey is living Jon's life as a prince.

Sansa helped Ned to discovered that Joffrey was really a bastard disguised as prince and Ned also knew that Jon was a prince disguised as bastard.

Sansa is told that the red comet (herald of dragons/house targ sigil) means glory to her betrothed Joffrey Baratheon, but all the references are about a targ prince, Aegon's descendant.

Beacuse of Joffrey, Sansa's direwolf Lady was killed with Ice. Jon misses and mourns Lady during his wolf dreams.

Joffrey ordered the hound to scort (spy, stalk and scare) Sansa around the Red Keep and later Joffrey ordered Ilyn Payne to kill Ned Stark and Payne did it with Ice. The hound and Payne were the monsters Joffrey "rescued" Sansa from. Janos Slynt lifted Ned's severed head to show it to the crowd.

Out of her fantasies of fairy tales, battered by a harsh and brutal reality, Sansa wished for a hero to avenge Ned's death and kill Janos Slynt who betrayed his father.

Jon always wished to wield Ice as his father's heir. He almost desert the Night's Watch to join Robb in rebelion to avenge Ned's death. Jon was never near to the hound or Payne, but he got to know Janos Slynt.

Jon killed Janos Slynt to avenge Ned's death.

Sansa believe that no one will ever love her for herself but for her claim to Winterfell. Jon Snow rejected Winterfell by saying Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa.

In summary, while handsome golden Joffrey was in theory the ideal prince and gallant knight, he truly was a little shit. While the plain brown haired bastard Jon Snow is truly a hero from the songs that Sansa loves so much.

Thanks for your question :)

#anon asks #jonsa

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