#sessrin discourse

[alisadraws]

I grew up on InuYasha, shipping Sesshoumaru and Rin.

Lots of people complained because Rin was a kid through the series, although it was obviously where the story was going.

Years later canon proved us right. She grew up to be his lover and the mother of his daughters.

I'm so tired of Tiktok actually. Hello??? I was a proshipper as a kid, no one told me to be or even pushed that rhetoric on me I just shipped stupid ships for fun 😭 I didn't even know the word proship

[hereticallyeverafter]

Long Introspective on Character Affiliation, line break to protect from my unpopular/horrible taste in ships:

On mobile, sorry for any linebreak goofs or typos, Im smort honnest lol.

I know I sparked some outrage, or rather, Spicy Discourse, by discussing my Littlesansa shippage- not that I regret that necessarily lol I still believe it would be/have been a politically advantageous move, but I want you all to know that I did do some reflection on my taste in characters. I understand that out of context, my proposal is horrifying and I don't deny that, but I have noticed my peculiar affinities for Unhinged Characters, not just GoT related. I think I haveva better grip o why, so I need everyone to momentarily suspend their judgement for a sec, I'm invoking a Safe Space Barrier. None of this is an excuse for my taste in characters (and people because it extends to real life too, with the sort of consequences one might imagine lol), just an explanation.

Other "Problematic Ships" I stan are Sessrin- I still invoke Cultural Context on this one because historically speaking, in that era of Japan, etc etc.- and Jolysui, so very clearly I lean towards just plain weird men.

I know the meter by which one measures out a reasonable amount of empathy is broken inside me and that I tend to empathize and extend grace to those who don't deserve it. But after the recent stink, I began to connect some dots. Like I said, you think my ships are bad, you should see my life. I've always gravitated towards "weird" or difficult to love people and that trait has been perceived and taken advantage of plenty. I guess you could say I do it to myself to an extent- if someone is a known asshole, when the relationship inevitably crashes and burns, you always have the "out" of saying "at least I tried".

It's like trying to pet a snarling dog over and over. It doesn't matter what your intentions are, intention doesn't protect you from consequences when you know or can reasonably surmise that the animal - or, to extend the metaphor, person- is hurting or fearful. I have been that stupid.

I think the characters I like are just an extension of that, but within the comparative safety of a fictional universe lol.

I realized this and began to wonder if I really am that stupid- expecting my innocence to shelter me from consequence- or I'd there's more to dig through. At what point does naiveté cross into being manipulative? Think about it: You see someone with all these red flags and attempt to befriend them but keep getting hurt. You have put that person in an unwinnable position: either they are going to continue acting from a place of unhealed trauma that they aren't ready to face, or they will respond favorably but still be forced to confront their ugly track record. You can't love or force people into healing, and simply trying is asking for creating resentment whether they heal or not. Unconscious or not, that is manipulative behavior at worst, and manipulative regardless as a form of emotional self-harm on your part for instigating the situation at best.

I've come to realize that some degree of me has been manipulative in this way in the past from a lack of security. I think my ships of certain characters are a reflection of that, and my "broken empathy valve" is a self-preservation excuse, but also stems from my neurodivergence. A lot of people like to blame their ND-status on their bad behavior, but I have ADHD with autistic tendencies, so there IS some bleed-through. While I acknowledge where my "bad taste" stems from, recognizing it in real time is still difficult, and I thinks what's worse is, I tend to gravitate, as all NDs do- towards other ND people or ND-coded characters.

So a fictional character I simp for in the safety of Imagination Land might look Unhinged or Proplematic to the average NT layperson but to me, it makes sense. While the people I like are red flags, the one thing I can say, the green lining if you will, is that they lack pretense. Because their pain or limitations are so bare, when I inevitably get bitten, at least I CAN blame myself because I knew what I was getting into, they didn't lie about themselves. They didn't hide their intent. They didn't or couldn't mask.

I doubt anyone would read this or read this far, and I am afraid if someone does, they'll just roll their eyes and call it an excuse anyway. God forbid anyone enjoy anything. We can separate the art from the artist but not the art from the viewer. I can say my silly little ships are ultimately harmless but there are people who will argue that it's not, like I'm going to start advocating for child marriage or human/demon interbreeding. I only care about a person's ships insofar as what it reveals about them psychologically (hence the word wall) but I would never stoop to presume that they were actionable bc that's just such a weird leap to make. My bad taste in people wasn't or isn't informed by my "bad taste" in fictional characters; it's the other way around lol

[the-path-to-redemption]

Don't know how to tell you this, but Rin isn't real and she's 30 in Yashahime. And since her twins are 14, she was Sesshomaru's wife at the same age Kagome became Inuyasha's wife. If you have a problem with that, keep the same energy with Inuyasha, because Kagome was 15-16 when she became his wife.

Rin ain't real, none of them are real. Had she met Sesshomaru at a later age, it still doesn't change the fact that he's centuries older than her, because he's not human. Be fucking serious, and actually care about real children instead of pixels.

You don't have to like the ship. I don't like the ship, but it doesn't change the fact that it's canon, it's fictional and Takahashi is making banks right now. Be real.

Every time I see someone pissing their fucking pants about age gap in a story setting with immortal and god-based characters in it, I wanna tear my teeth out. 

Don’t know how to tell you this, but Sesshomaru and Rin’s age gap is the same as Inuyasha and Kagome. Hades and Persephone having an age gap in Lore Olympus is nowhere near as bad as the true myth of them literally being related. A vampire fucking a modern adult in the 21st century doesn’t mean its pedophilia or anything like that ffs.

Also worth mentioning that both Rin and LO Persephone are adults and not real, so for the love of everything that’s holy stop calling fictional characters “gro*mers” when no such thing happened in their dynamic with their love interests. 

You can dislike the ships and not be fucking pissbabies about it. Worry less about pixels and more about real violence against minors ffs. 

[chaos-in-the-making]

Very obtuse of you to compare Sessrin with UsaMamo when you know damn well Mamoru didn’t meet and heavily interact with Usagi when he was 19 and she 7-8 oh I’m sorry 11~ now.

Also you keep claiming Mamoru/Chibiusa isn’t a good analogy cause Sesshomaru was never her father, explain Rumiko canonically referring to him as Rin’s Hogosha then?

"Kaede! They said Lord Sesshoumaru will never propose to me because he is my hogosha!"

Kaede looked up from her work of grinding herbs. Rin looked distraught and on the verge of tears. Kaede's eyebrows narrowed, but she remained calm and continued her work.

"Sit down, Rin. You are ten days from becoming a woman. It is unlike you to listen to the gossip of others."

Rin took a deep breath and plopped down next to Kaede, picking up a grinding stone to help. Even when she was wearing the ornate pink kimono that Lord Sesshoumaru brought her, she never failed to help in chores.

"Now. Who told you this ridiculous thing?"

Rin struggled with the tears. "It was the farmer's daughters. They said that since Lord Sesshoumaru has always protected me, that he would find me a husband instead of proposing."

Kaede gave a small snort. "That is a strange way for a hogosha to act. I have never heard of such a law preventing a guardian from proposing. He is not your father, child."

"But the girls said-!"

Kaede cut her off with a knowing smile. Rin had been looking forward to Lord Sesshoumaru's return for years.

"Rin, you were educated by Miroku, who taught you your letters and gave you many things to read, did he not?"

Rin nodded slowly.

"Well then. Do not fret about the words of uneducated girls."

[two-tied-hearts]

I wasn't going to reply, because what I have to say is a bit charged, and the least thing I want is to make you uncomfortable in your space, but your tags indicated you wanted us to interact so I thought I might as well. I do have to apologise in advance in case of anything, it is really not my intention to upset, but I also feel this needs a reply. I think in retrospect, having read what I wrote back, this might not have even been about reluctance as much as I'm starting to think that post triggered my fight or flight response.

That anon that complained about Yashahime, I can understand the gripe to some extent, and no one ever really said the season is perfect, there were moments in the season that could have been done better, especially partaining to pacing, but especially now when we know there will be more coming, and that what we got is hardly the whole deal, to act like sessrin is reduced to just that first season is ridiculous. Quite frankly even so, their dynamic wasn't impacted at all, they're the same dynamic we all fell in love with, but they're put in a difficult situation... which, sure, ok... but... that's just... storytelling? There needs to be a story... to tell? I'm not sure what exactly people expected honestly.

Maybe not necessarily this case, but most times when I've seen people say that, what they mean is they see Sunrise's portrayal of Rin as a "complacent breeder", which honestly is offensive, false, and also just weird in the context of both the plot and the dynamic, especially if and when you understand it. Or they call Rin useless, apparently that's a thing too now... in any case, it sets some of my alarms off, I think valid critique is most welcome, but the things thay I've seen spewed around here under the guise of "criticism", hardly really qualify as that at all and are said in bad faith.

On a personal note, and this is more why I was reluctant to reply, people who are overly obsessed with fictive characters' ages make me uncomfortable, and dare I say, outright give me the creeps. If you have that much trouble distancing yourself from fiction to the point where you need to know pixel ages down to the last second since their "birth", that you can't even enjoy a character dynamic lest it abides by the bible, that to me is a big red flag, and more often than not people who are so concerned with them are antis/fancops, in other words, abusers. If the person who sent that is who I think they are, then for sure it's a fancop, and when they say "bully", they mean they were called out for harassing artists and spewing terfery, and despite them outright hurting people, and overall being harmful, when that was called into question, rather than hold themselves accountable, they took to fleeing and painting a narrative.

Returning to topic and to the characters' ages business, I'm also suspicious of anyone at all who allocates time to argue about Rin's age any one way or another, because Rin has never even had a canon age as per the original material, and quite frankly it's irrelevant. But I guess that's a hot take, to say that the fake numbers slapped on a fake, nonexistent character, are fake and have no real importance. It just makes me very curious how some are so certain Rin is 16 or younger when there are no sources to be cited either pro or against. Even with assumptions of her age in Inuyasha, which are for the most part a consensus across the whole Inufandom, and subsequent calculations based on Kagome's age and the timeline, most of the time Rin's age results around 17 if you read an analysis done in good faith. The only ones who age her down, and can't even settle on 1 single age for her, since depending on which of them you ask they'll say anything between 12-16... are yet again the fancops. Most people ship things because they enjoy a dynamic, characters' personalities that compliment each other and so forth, it's never about character ages™ or shipping the right™, most realistic™, most morally coherent with our real life views™ thing, and being perfomative and trying to turn it into that has singlehandedly hurt more people, and been the most dangerous turn fandom could have ever taken.

Okay! Let's dive in!

I agree with you. The first season wasn't perfect. it did have it's flaws, but that's what a first season is. It's to set up the characters and the world they live in. I'm not saying next season will be better, but it has room to grow. There is still story left, it's not finished yet.

You are definitely right about this! Rin is in no way a "breeder" or "useless". It's extremely rude to call someone a breeder just because they want/have children. That is very misogynist and reduces women to basically nothing. What's worse is that some of the people who say that are also women so they are saying that themselves and all women are worthless and that is not the case.

Yes, Rin's age was never specified. At the end of the day her age is basically a headcanon. We don't know how old she was when she married Sesshomaru or gave birth to the twins. She could have been 14 or 16 or 17. It was super common back then for people to marry and have kids at a young age. Even today people are having children at that age. But again we don't know how old she was! It shouldn't be a problem and it shouldn't be obsessed over. Just say what you think her age is and go.

Obsessing over a fictional ship/characters isn't healthy. Other than liking sessrin I have responsibilities in the real world. I have a life outside of fandoms that I'm in. I also agree with you, people who obsess over her age or actively showing their hate for a ship makes me super uncomfortable. It's like "okay we get it you don't like sessrin. We don't care as long as you don't harass us just because of lines on a screen." It's nice to like shows and ships but people shouldn't only be contributing to hate. It's unnecessary and a waste of time.

To sum up everything, and to the people who keep spreading hate, here is a quote of my favourite meme: "Calm down son, it's just a drawing."

[loveyou-x3000]

Rin is sesshomaru's daughter

I'm not here for any pro-SessRin or anti-SessRin discourse. I don't have a strong opinion for or against either side and I won't have one until we have the context, ages, etc. for how Rin and Sesshomaru ended up post-Epilogue. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[pillow-ghost-nan]

Why all the sesskagu blogs must be so salty about sessrin. Bro, I came here for sesskagu, not for the sessrin discourse

[asettledsky]

To anyone who is mistaking that last post as me agreeing with antis or thinking they are right.... uhh... don't.

I'm just saying that anti sessrinners are being more productive than other antis with their hate and, for the most part, are directing their anger correctly. I think that that is a good thing.

I specifically said that the antis who are still harassing shippers and calling them pedos or pedo apologists are being dumbfucks and that getting mad at people who like things isn't useful. Those are behaviors that I think are bad and all they do is cause hurt.

I still don't agree with the any statement that sounds like "You like (insert fictional scenario here)?! Omg you must be a (insert criminal behavior here)!" And I never will.

[chaos-in-the-making]

If not American show, why no speak Murican?

Why do people watch a Japanese show. That takes place in feudal era Japan. And then get mad that people behave like people from feudal era Japan?

[aqours]

god i have such a history with sessrin as a ship like

in my anti days ofc i hated it vehemently

and even when yashahime started airing, i wasn't proship yet but like i WAS now more neutral on these stances, and like i actively still disliked the idea of sessrin and greatly preferred the familial interpretation of sesshomaru's and rin's relationship but also i just knew from early on it was gonna happen and made peace with it

went "well you know ehhhh i don't LIKE IT but you know it's canon and towa is like my favorite character ever so!!!"

thought the fandom would stabilize after a few weeks, was HORRIBLY HORRIBLY WRONG, realized the only way to find yashahime content i liked was to follow sessrin shippers so i started to, started getting pissed at the discourse and was like "you know what no fuck you. i'm going to enjoy yashahime no matter what i WILL enjoy it no matter what i will ship sessrin solely out of fucking spite if i have to!!!"

and then that spite shipping became "oh i just like it genuinely now, yeah i get why it makes people uncomfy but they make it out to be worse than it is and tbh it feels like something out of a fairy tale to me!!! and ya know, the manga is called a feudal fairy tale-"

became very invested in inuyasha/yashahime as my main fandom for the better part of the year and saw the most fucking toxic fandom i had ever seen in my entire life by a huge margin

started associating with a really toxic group of people just because they said they were proship and pro-sessrin around the time i was learning what being proship really was vs. years of just "it's gross people who like gross things"

learned the hard way they were really awful people and learned to not just trust people because they used that label and made me much more wary about these circles and who i followed (and then some of them were revealed to be terfs too)

and now i just kinda enjoy yashahime/inuyasha and sessrin content from a distance as i've mostly moved on to fate as my main fandom (and oshi no ko too but that's MUCH more recent)

but god i've had. such a fucking wild road with this ship. like jesus christ this fandom and the discourse around this ship gave me actual issues mentally but here i am now for better or worse!!!

[chaos-in-the-making]

We all know why antis are being shitheads about Rin showing she has bigger dick energy than Kirinmaru. It's because canon proved to them that she isn't the victim they made her out to be. Because she's showing her genuine thoughts and personality, showing she has agency, and showing she was not groomed to think that way that she's always been that way but only now a wife and mother. And even if she acted the way that she does now and was groomed, they would still insult her because she isn't acting like the victim they want her to be. Defenseless, weak, timid, submissive, and in desperate need to be infantize so they can "help" her. We have reached the point to where people demand fictional characters to be an ideal victim regardless if they are victims of anything.

Antis: RIN IS A VICTIM

Rin: actually, I chose this life

Antis: RIN IS A FUGLY SLUT

Like wow, that escalated quickly

[chaos-in-the-making]

This is why I can't fucking stand sessrin antis.

I don't hear a damn peep about Chibi Moon kissing an ancient being who looks like a teenager, while Chibi Moon is drawn like a 5 year old. Chibi Moon is actually a couple of hundred years old,

BuT ShE LoOkS fIVe!!!!%@<#<^#^$ HE IS 10 YEARS OLDER THAN HER!!!!#&&$&$~\

yeah. She does. They are drawn that way. Chibi Usa is still a child, both physically and mentally. Helios is ancient, but he is still an adolescent. And they kiss ON THE LIPS!! So where is the fury. Where is the "PROTECT CHIBI USA" squad. Where is the attempts to CANCEL SAILOR MOON FOR CHILD PRON.

See? Antis are just full of shit. They don't actually give a fuck about real children, or children in anime. They don't give a fuck about Rin. They certainly don't care about Chibi Usa. They just hate that their ship is not canon, and that we are actually happy that ours is.

Feel free to prove me wrong! Come into my inbox and tell me that Chibi Moon and Helios is JUST AS DISGUSTING as Sessrin! Be my guest! Tell me how Sailor Moon should be canceled!

If you can't do that, then you ain't shit. Get fucked.

[chaos-in-the-making]

Legit NO ONE AGED. Not Sango, who should have grey hair by now AT LEAST. Not really because of age, but because of the time period and nutrition and how stress plays a part in all of that, but does she have grey hair?? NO! THE FUCKING CAT IS EVEN IMMORTAL like there's no measurement of age in this show so the antis are just stupid and unable to comprehend that cartoons are not always a reflection of reality. 🥴

Antis want to go on and on about how Rin didn’t look grown up enough as if Sango, who was supposed to age normally unlike Kagome, didn’t look like she was 14 years old with three teenage kids

Literally only Miroku seemed to have aged so if everyone could shut up and stay in their lane, that would be great

[meidozangetsuha]

You have plenty of salt despite how much you genuinely like Yashahime so... how about this: got any salt regarding Rin in particular?

OK AS A SESSRIN SHIPPER THIS IS A REALLY FUN ONE HOLD ON THIS HAS BEEN BUGGING ME FOR FUCKING AGES NOW

this is JUST my take feel free to disagree but i feel like there's lowkey

two Rins in this same show, that we see in S2. these are almost two separate characters but both are married to Sesshomaru, both were in the tree, and both are the parents of the twins

and like. i REALLY like one of these Rins

(sorry about this horrible awful quality i'm on my work computer and don't wanna go take screenshots properly so i'm just using really old shitty phone pics i took a long time ago)

LIKE. I REALLY LIKE THIS RIN. i like the Rin that literally held a fucking decomposing virus sword to her neck and outright told her husband "if it'll keep our kids safe then don't hesitate to cut off my head" or when KNOWING she couldn't do SHIT against Kirinmaru like... literally at MOST buying her kids like, three more seconds to live (and i might be REALLY generous with three seconds, just because i like Rin) knowing that Kirinmaru would just instantly slaughter her but still be willing to do that because she's a mom and that's her precious family she loves with all her heart

and then we get to shit like, "i can't hug you yet even though running up to you and hugging you before you could even Not Hug Me Back would've been what was most ic for me," stupid-ass bullshit, generally being extremely passive (which makes sense in some capacity considering she can't fight) and just kind of once again feeling like a character who only really follows around what Sesshomaru does and says

(i know that scene in the last episode is. VERY infamous and kind of well-deserved but like while i do agree that it was NOT the right art and voice acting direction i UNDERSTAND what it was TRYING to accomplish which i think is kind of in-line with the Rin i really like so i'm not as harsh on it as others even though it was given incredibly poor direction in how to be executed which is creating discourse about it To This Day)

like, i KNOW this was a filler episode, but remember that one episode where Jaken was poisoned and Rin, this little kid, completely on her own basically went into demon territory and risked her life just to get the herbs that would save Jaken? (correct me if i'm wrong about this one i THINK this is how it went it's been like over a year since i saw the movie) the kid that in third movie wanted to try to bodyblock Setsuna no Takemaru from being able to reach Kagome because even though Kagome was stronger than her, she wanted to protect someone she cared about?

i feel like ONE of the Rins in HNY is absolutely that little girl grown up and now a mother and still having that fire in her she's had her entire life and the other is. really just kind of there to follow Sesshomaru around. i really love one of these Rins a lot and the other Rin i'm. kinda apathetic about. i know there's only realistically so much she COULD have done being the one normal person among all these fighters with powers but STILL i feel like we only got to see that Rin in like, glimpses, which is a shame bc i REALLY like that Rin that has the biggest balls of pretty much everyone in this entire franchise

and that is my Rin salt ty for coming to my ted talk i need to make rp icons of Rin at some point that's unrelated to anything but i should go icon Rin one day

[chaos-in-the-making]

Being molested/molesting is not a kink. Pedophia and child grooming is not a kink. It’s not a fetish, it’s nothing to get off on. It’s not apart of my Asian culture. Since you “know” and thing or two about studies you would know it’s a deep, dark disturbing mindset that is nothing to take light of. That 9/10 these “simple” thoughts came to reality because of shows/tv/books/“light conversations at school”, church and at home. Children are innocent and shouldn’t be forced, exposed or taken advantage of in adult settings or situations. It wraps their precious minds. A ever revolving door of suffering. You are a victim, with a victim mindset and by the way you talk and they way you see things you still haven’t received the proper help to relieve you of that burden that was unfairly placed on your shoulders. I’m sorry it happened to you. It shouldn’t of. You didn’t deserve it and it wasn’t ok. It wasn’t fair to you, it isn’t fair to other victims either and it isn’t ok to portray it in the media no matter how lightly they try to spin it.

You are 100% correct

PEDOPHILIA IS NOT A KINK

I have NEVER supported that view, and never WILL support that view! That's where I get angry with antis claiming that everyone who supports Sessrin is into pedophilia as a kink when

100% WE ARE NOT

It grinds my gears when anyone claims that! Sessrin is NOT a child/adult relationship, and those who claim that it is are WRONG.

That puts any and all supporters of the ship into the category of "pedophiles" and it is GROSS and INCORRECT and HOW DARE YOU insinuate that I have an attraction to children when I ship an 18 YEAR OLD WITH AN IMMORTAL BEING. I will tell each and every person to fuck off who tries to tell me that.

And also why should you apologize to me? You don't know anything about my journey and you're not my therapist. I don't mention my SA much because a lot of times it doesn't apply. I mention it when I have people try to tell me that I don't know what it's like. I do, but also I don't. Because we don't ALL have the SAME experience.

Sessrin does not portray pedophilia. It is NOT grooming. You can't convince me that it is. Stop pushing that mindset. It's inaccurate.

Also, you can't, you just CAN'T protect children from everything that YOU deem to be problematic. You wouldn't let your kids watch Disney if you tried to do that. What you CAN do is give proper education and explanation for things when they come up. And the proper ages for sex education is probably a lot younger than you think. We had to give my daughter the talk a little early simply because the neighbor friend wanted to "play" a kissing game and we had to explain why they are just not ready for those things yet.

I take my kids education VERY seriously, and I have nurses and professionals help me with what is age appropriate.

[problematic-ship]

I think there's a fundamental divide in proship spaces as to what qualifies as proship? For example, I'm all for people exploring problematic content in fiction as long as it's not geared towards children. Even younger teens, I feel, shouldn't necessarily be engaging with fucked up shit, but they obviously will anyway so there's not much we can do about it. In some ways, fandom is BETTER about safeguarding because of our tagging system, trigger warnings, and disclaimers about the fucked up shit we produce.

But I'm very much an anti when it comes to canonical and uncritical depictions of fucked up shit in kids' shows. For example, lots of shoujo anime and manga romanticizes MASSIVE age gaps and much older men preying on young girls, such as Cardcaptor Sakura, Dengeki Daisy, Shugo Chara, etc. It also romanticizes incest and abusive behavior, like in Vampire Knight or any number of other stories. And I think the most egregious example is Sessrin in Yashahime, which was explicitly aimed at PRETEENS. MIDDLE SCHOOLERS. ACTUAL BABIES WATCHING A GROWN MAN IMPREGNATE A 14 YEAR OLD, TAKE AWAY AND ABANDON HER KIDS, AND SEAL HER IN A TREE.

I had no problem with Sessrin when it was just a fandom ship, but the way it was depicted in Yashahime made me a full blown anti. That's my philosophy in general, really. Fandom is much different than actual corporate products for kids. Because make no mistake, most anime is a product before it is a story, so there should be much more stringent standards about what they promote and market to kids. Fic writers and fanartists don't purposefully target kids and try to market problematic stuff to them. But some people conflate the two like they're the same thing and cause the same amount of harm, which is bizarre and untrue.