#st speculation

[will80sbyers]

I'm starting to think that Tommy H. is the one that put the newspaper inside Will's locker in season 2

I can't really see a 12 year old doing this with a newspaper... it seems weird? but I can definitely see a 17yo doing this... expecially one that's dealing with internalized homophobia (or at least that's the headcanon of the actor) and hates Will's brother for somehow pushing Steve away from him even if indirectly...

[robin-buck1ey]

Them saying this… AFTER these posts vv

(Meaning they were well aware of the ship)

Only to then advertise them as so?

“Introducing dream team”

“New couple”

Hmmmm duffers care to explain?

[nadia-zahra]

Ok idk if this is anything but just noticed how they kept referencing Nintendo throughout s4

Murray talks ab the kids playing Nintendo

Erica says Lucas will have to buy her a Nintendo

Cali crew tells Nina Project is actually for a Nintendo contest

Will says they can Nintendo for the rest of their lives

Why is the Nintendo a reoccurring theme?!!?

[gayofthefae]

Thinking about Will with powers and how anger has been a big motivator that helps but he has a history of basically refusing to feel angry or letting it go way too quickly/easily (likely because he’s scared of being like his dad) so him harnessing that could actually be really healing.

Actually, powers or not, I think people confuse anger with evil - just like he does - and I hope that he gets to finally gets to actually express his pent up anger because that boy has a lot to be validly angry about. He can NOT have a villain arc because it is counter to his entire character as someone who is gentle DESPITE. (He is an abuse survivors and there is some warranted anger there but he is not going to become Billy). He can be angry and gentle at heart and non-villainous. 

[bike-wheeler]

my biggest fear is that we will get no deeper explanation for mike’s behaviour in s4 vol1 and that he will have just been acting so assholey to will because he felt awkward he hadn’t reached out enough cus he was too focused on el. like come on . just canonise the repression please it makes so much sense 

[vivelegalite]

people moved on but mentally i'm still right here. what the FUCK did they mean?

so the message was partially solved by @\willescarf on twitter who guessed "but you mean... so much to me"

which i, like many other likeminded people who partake in delusion now and then, interpreted as a message by either mike or will, directed to the other. because it just makes sense.

for a long time, my favourite solution to the message was this one, by @\thmidfinch on twitter:

anyway i think you'll [like it] sorry i couldn't get it done [in time for your birthday], but you mean so [much to me] and it's been [great getting to catch up with you] i hope this is [enough to] last until [next time] love, [mike]

talking about a letter maybe (shoutout to lettergate enjoyers and truthers), or a mixtape? whatever this would relate to would be a sort of olive branch presented to will by mike.

another possible variation i could think of would be this one, inspired by @\dcbicki:

anyway i think you'll [get it] sorry i couldn't get it done [before/sooner], but you mean so [much to me] and it's been [a long time] i hope this is [going to] last until [then] love, [mike]/[i] love [you]

this one absolutely RUINED ME and i am 100% a truther now (by @\aurietissima):

I want you to know that I rebuilt Castle Byers. I'm so sorry about you wrecking it because of me, because of our fight. Very, very sorry. Anyway I think you'll like it. Sorry I couldn't get it done better, but you mean so much to me and it's been hard without you. I hope this is enough to last until you come (back) to Hawkins. Love, Mike.

another strong contender was this one, by @\lukacuzynot:

anyway i think you'll [like the painting] sorry i couldn't get it done [before we got to the airport] but you mean so [much to me] and it's been [a long time since we had seen each other] i hope this is [going to] last until [we see each other again] love [you]?

where the message talks about the painting will gives to mike in s4. my own variant of this one would probably be:

anyway i think you'll [like the painting] sorry i couldn't get it done [before we moved] but you mean so [much to me] and it's been [a long time since we talked] i hope this is [going to] last until [summer break] love, [will]?

but then, looking for interesting interpretations, i stumbled across this tweet:

so, the "no" can mean a lot of things, buuuuuut this tweet just so happened to be archived by the wayback machine, so here it is in its full glory:

yeowch. i was hoping it'd say something like "this is about byler", to which that response ("no") teeeechnically wouldn't be a lie — since byler is the name for them as a couple, and they said outright that this isn't about one.

but alas.

the little delusional byler in my head tells me that friends don't lie but showrunners do, and there is a bit of hope left there, but among other ideas one i like is that this could be a note from terry ives to el (x), considering the significance of the date outside of just will (it's the date of el's escape from the lab, i think).

but then there's the tweet i usually see omitted from posts i see about this message (and one i was going to omit myself but just now noticed before clicking post):

this is giving me phone call cutting out mid word rather than a written, redacted note, but who knows? certainly not me. i know nothing anymore tbh

another thing to mention is that these were posted in october 2019, so take them with a grain of salt, but then again — season 4 was announced with a teaser on 30th september 2019 (FLASH WARNING!!!). a teaser that included allusions to several plot points that made it to the final cut of season 4 (the logo recreated with vines resembling the creel house, the grandfather clock, the slogan "we're not in hawkins anymore" relating to the cali crew and el in nevada). it's pretty possible they already knew about the paintings, the letters, etc.

PLEASE let me know your theories on this, it's one of my favourite still unsolved st mysteries!! do you believe that it's not about byler? if yes, what else do you think it could be?

[aemiron-main]

Yknow what i need re: the idea of a shapeshifting doppelganger in the creel house? I need scenes of like every member of the Creel family at some point seeing the doppelganger of another member of the family + then seeing the actual family member somewhere that they couldnt have plausibly been based on where they saw the doppelganger.

For example, something like Victor seeing “Henry” come down the stairs & go outside versus seeing the actual Henry come down the stairs a few minutes later. Especially for the time loop Vibes it would have without being an actual time loop/Victor wondering why the same thing seemingly happened twice in a row.

Bonus points for something like the scene of Alice waking up from her nightmare but the actual Alice is hiding underneath the bed from whatever’s In the bed. Or Virginia calling for Henry/yelling his name from downstairs only for him to go down there, talk to her, and go back upstairs & pass her in the hallway because “Virginia” is going downstairs/theres no way she couldve gotten from the kitchen to the upstairs without him noticing.

And re: all of this, theres also the added layer of doppelgangers not being able to automatically replicate a person’s mannerisms unless they kill them (but they CAN replicate their appearance without doing that), so give me Virginia tearing into the Real Henry for being rude to her earlier or whatever versus Henry who Didnt Do That And Hasn’t Even Talked To Her All Day

[howtobecomeadragon]

Jonathan isn't going to die because from a narrative standpoint, it would be pure regression for Nancy. Nancy would blame herself, she'd be right back to where she was at the beginning of s2, and her whole arc would've been for nothing.

Same with Steve too, tbh. And Mrs. Wheeler. And Mike. No one that Nancy is close to is going to die in s5.

[none-gender-left-man]

🎶 Turn Around, Look at What You See 🎶

Starting a new -gate I call it storygate

Mike sings to El and she shuts him down and doesn't like it. This shows an immediate level of incompatibility with her annoyance toward his sincere and silly personality.

Dustin then sings neverending story to Suzie, which we all know was a strange and distinct choice in the narrative that many question why it was necessary. (hmmm wonder if it means anything 🤔)

Max and Lucas tease Dustin about it by singing it together.

Will references this in s4, bursting into song to make his point about going to see Suzie. (unnecessary, in my opinion this means something)

Lumax|Byler parallels exist endlessly and constantly, always with lumax following byler lead.

Now. The song itself.

"Turn around

Look at what you see

In her face

The mirror of your dreams"

Turn around referring to seeing that Mike has always had Will, the second part referring to his relationship with El being a cop-out to dodge his feelings. He projects his wants with Will onto her and fakes it.

"Make believe I'm everywhere

Given in the light

Written on the pages

Is the answer to a neverending story"

Given in the light referring to the way Will is constantly cinematically framed in lighting with a halo motif (most often in Mike's POV), written on the pages I believe is further evidence and indication that Mike has unsent letters/a card/something of that sort. Will expresses in art, Mike expresses in writing.

"Rhymes that keep their secrets

Will unfold behind the clouds

And there upon a rainbow

Is the answer to a neverending story"

Self explanatory. Will is associated with the rainbow constantly, and it's also of course a queer symbol.

"Show no fear

For she may fade away

In your hand

The birth of a new day"

Mike is afraid of losing El, he does care for her, she's his good friend- but he's keeping the relationship propped up only because he's afraid she'll disappear from his life otherwise, and because he fears his own truth. If he moves past this, a new day begins with Will. El is going to move on without needing him, opening the door for him to acknowledge his reality.

Hello, is this thing on????

[ohfallingdisco]

WAIT

Sharks are attracted to blood in the water, Demogorgons are attracted to blood in probably the same way

This applies to more animals than just sharks obviously but the rows of teeth!! Lover’s Lake having a gate!! Michael being framed with the Jaws poster again!! Mike is getting trapped in the Upside Down come season 5 full stop I’m so convinced

There’s also something to be said here about Will being associated with (looks like rainforest) tigers in s4 and their main predator being crocodiles (another toothy water predator) but-

[will80sbyers]

So the doors all through the show are a representation of the entrance to levels of the mind of someone and Vecna is intruding in their minds

for Will in season two the door opens on its own and Will goes out and then they cut and the next episode he seems to be fine like nothing happened but in reality Vecna got inside his head and started to possess him slowly

then in season 4 there's Vecna that to enter Chrissy's mind tries to open the bathroom door at first

and then he tries again at Eddie's trailer and Chrissy at first resists and she runs away and Vecna says "Chrissy open the door"

every door is going more and more inside their own minds but Vecna follows them to enter forcefully... he scares them into their worst nightmares

after Vecna is inside their minds he traps the victims inside by putting barriers outside of the doors like he wants to keep them prisoners in their deepest fears to keep them there

All of this also reminds me of the It movies and the doors the characters have to go through!

There are also many other instances in which doors are featured inside the mindscape of someone like with Max trying to shut the door and Vecna removing it

And then we have the door with the rose inside Vecna's mind space and Nancy being guided through that to see Henry's story because she's inside his mind now

We see Henry going in and out of different rooms and these doorframes all bring to a specific moment in time in his memories

I can't put all the other pictures but we also have El going in and out of the same doors when she's running inside her own mind in the loop in her memories

Also in Nancy's nightmare when Vecna attacks her he tries to keep her inside by shutting a door but she opens it and runs at first

And I'm sure there are other moments if I look for them... Like

In season 3 there's the red door El goes through to enter Heather's mind

I think I remember Patrick seeing a door opening with the clock inside (but I have to rewatch bc I'm not sure)

I don't think Fred goes through any door except the one in the ground if you count the grave as a door idk lol

The only thing I can't really figure out is the "leave the door open 3 inches thing" of El and Hopper... I have to think about how this fits metaphorically 🤔

maybe the point is that you have to keep the door open to confront these fears ? I'm not sure

[folkloremay]

no because there's definitely something fishy with dr. owens

[robin-buck1ey]

Starting to question it they know what personal space is cause….they are literally walking shoulder to shoulder…like they are bumping into eachother….and then still continue to

Like Robin what do you need to be so close for?? If Nancy turned her head they would either kiss or be extremely close to kissing🤨

[sunflowerdigs]

Also, I bet the spin-off is about Kali and her gang (though they might alter the gang slightly to make them more appealing to a broad audience). I get the sense the Duffers really liked her and were bummed that her appearance in S2 didn't go great. They could re-vitalize her in S5 and then create a show about her.

[gayofthefae]

Thinking about Will getting Venca'd and Mike realistically not knowing his most recent favorite song but El being the one to save him by knowing.

(And also I am excited to see Mike and everyone else go crazy over him in general)

[bike-wheeler]

cannot explain how much i need the vol 2 cabin scene to end with a hand over hand parallel to the s2 scene