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chibivesicle · 1 year

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If you could fix Trigun Stampede or write an alternate version of it that stays truer and more faithful to the 98 anime and the manga, not just visually but emotionally, philosophical and symbolically, how would you? Given how your in depth analyses and in general reading it to filth, I would love to know how you would fix it or rewrite it!

Hello and thanks for the question!

Sorry for the slow response, I've been busy and distracted by other shiny objects (Kekkai Sensen) to get back to this. I still haven't had time to really answer another ask but I hope to get to it in a week or so. As far as Trigun Stampede, I felt it had issues in the following areas: 1.) Technical skill surpassed all other aspects of the production. They put all their eggs in making it look very good. Which it does. I found out from the Sakuracon panel, that they spent two years working on animating the faces. Kudos for that level of work but if you write a poor story it doesn't matter how emotional they look. 2.) Paradoxical pacing. Twelve episodes were not enough to capture the original Trigun manga nor '98 anime. The '98 anime added establishing content to extend the limited manga chapters which helped to give the viewers Meryl as their entry point. It also had great pacing. Intro, build up, tension and resolution either in each episode or in two part episodes.

3.) Total emphasis of style over substance. This was the the worst part of it. They assumed making things look pretty would suffice and did not write individual episodes well or the full twelve. And since they were only working with twelve the story did not have time to just be and let us enter the world because of the paradoxical pacing. 4.) Generic character designs for the contemporary eye. In their attempt to make the characters look more 'normal' they lost the unique style of Yasuhiro Nightow's original designs. His characters are exceptionally stylized in a distinct way and they completely redid them. We also know that other studios can adapt his characters much more like in the original work both with the '98 anime and Kekkai Sensen. Madhouse and Bones anime-stylized the characters a bit for anime but not by that much compared to what Orange did. Milly is still large and clumsy in the anime, while Vash is super contorted at times. Wolfwood is still angular and Meryl still has that soft short stature. In KS, Klaus is still a giant gentleman, Leo is still dodging chaos, Chain is cool and distant, K. K. still has her confident stride, and Steven's posture is still terrible. I can watch the '98 anime and Kekkai Sensen and know that these characters were designed by Nightow. Looking at Stampede, I cannot tell by looking at them.

5.) Weak characters. Another point the Sakuracon panel noted was that the creative team spent five years developing Stampede. I can't help but feel like they wasted their energy. They came up with all this lore and information for their own version of No Mans Land - and then never tied it together. Studio Orange got lost in the weeds and never really figured out what they wanted to make or say. They also relied on characters info dumping and blatantly telling us what they are doing. That is not how Trigun or Kekkai Sensen work as stories. It is up to you to figure out what the characters are doing, why they are doing it and how to interpret their actions.

The characters were unclear in their motivations, there was no intro, mystery or payoff. After twelve episodes in, we still don't know what Rem told Vash that he has his technical pacifist philosophy. We know she told them that she loved them and she was happy to know them and that they should take care of each other. But why was Rem with Project Seeds? Why did she believe all life was sacred? Why was your ticket to the future blank?

Vash was far to passive but never said why and was not a gunslinger. Which was pretty much key to his skill and why he was infamous. Even before the July incident he was an excellent gunslinger and Western drifter. Wolfwood was meh, his natural people skills from the manga were completely gone. He was not only a trained killer but he was a natural people person and tried to be compassionate when possible. Meryl was two years older than in the manga/'98 anime and far less experienced. Yes, she was smart and by the book but so weak. Roberto was useless. He did not serve the plot. How would I have done Stampede? 1.) Trigun Maximum emphasis. Incorporate more of the manga into the anime, but cutting out some of the wandering chapters which did not serve the plot other than for some hard to follow action scenes. They lifted some elements from Maximum, but parts I was never a fan of e.g. the late introduction of the fact that Wolfwood was likely in his early 20s but will be debated until the end since his own backstories and timelines in the manga are inconsistent. My point is that Wolfwood's timeline is a hot mess.

Instead, they could have streamlined some of the fuzzy hand waving science and odd timelines for characters like Wolfwood and Livio. What they did was lean in hard to the rapidly aging aspect of things so as far as I can tell, Wolfwood is like 13 in Stampede?

They added in Elendira the Crimsonnail but made her a child who manifests nails from the air. Um, sure. If she is a she at all or genderless or nonbinary. The point is, she is not an adult trans woman with excellent fashion taste.

Added in the missing civilians from the original work. As others have commented, Stampede is a very empty world. There are no normal people. The entire point was that there were lots of normal people living their lives on the planet. They are completely absent. There are barely any civilians to protect since they aren't there. The design of the cities and towns for this were also weak. Yes, they needed plants, but most of the cities grew around the ships and dwarfed them. December was a full city with a downtown, high rise buildings and public transit. Stampede is just a weird tribute to Dune or something like that.

There was the potential to take the original anime, add in the key points of Maximum and it would have been an awesome anime.

2.) Had a clear story line for all twelve episodes and then for each individual episode. The storytelling for Stampede was an utter disaster. The terrible pacing, the inability to show characters through their actions, their lack of rational thoughts from time to time. The bad science; e.g. a town with only windmills but no solar panels. No knowledge of plants and photosynthesis? What the hell were these people eating? Apparently, they came up with worm related lore in their brainstorming sessions, but if you DON'T put that in the actual anime, we won't know that.

Too many things were like "Oh wow, look perfect timing! Always!" Dude, no. Part of the original was how timing wasn't perfect and characters slogged around for months trying to reconnect.

I think Vash being a little more upfront about his rationale to try to avoid violence would help and if he did it with his gun like in the originals. It makes his skill even better and more appreciated and highlights how he does not shoot to kill. Even though this series started with the backstory with him and Knives, Rem's moral code was not outlined. Thus, we don't know why Vash does what he does due to Rem and her influence on him.

Wolfwood was terrible, lacking all of his charm, personable attitude and willingness to sacrifice and be critical. He just comes off as a dick. Honestly, all they needed to do was make him more friendly and call out Vash for faking it like in the original. Meryl would have been better like her original with more experience and Milly as her junior. Nightow writes excellent female characters who aren't uwu/waifu types. They are women who are competent, have strengths and flaws and hopes and dreams. They are not there for you to dream about them fawning over you and acting on your every beck and call. Instead, they likely could kill you. Or at least really hurt you. They are not sexualized, nor fan service. They are just women and the men are just men. I'm not saying they aren't attractive - Meryl is still cute, Milly is dapper, Chain is curvy, K. K. is fashionable. But that isn't the defining aspect of their characters.

3.) Kept the character designs closer to the originals. In a saturated media landscape where so many anime look the same and generic, the style of the original would have stood out. Keep that lanky angular style of the original. Have those dramatic poses which showed so much about each character. I mean, they could have updated them and ditched the '90s eyes through chunky hair bit. Also, by changing Wolfwood from being a priest/preacher much of his internal moral conflict is lost. Along with the jokes which were classics by this point. With so many people not knowing the original, the jokes would have been unknown and fresh to newer viewers.

4.) Made the series 24 episodes with 12 per season. This really would have helped the series out big time. Instead of the oft critiqued terrible pacing, do what so many other series do now; split up what used to be a single season into two parts. It would have allowed for more downtime, lingering shots, characterization through interactions with the normal people. Vash playing with children. Eating donuts. Pancakes. Wolfwood giving up his food. Meryl writing reports and trying to be emotionally distant. Milly helping Wolfwood in a fight. Many of the micro-moments of characters were lost, but these help us to understand them and how they will react through very basic set up. Madhouse did not have a blockbuster budget for Trigun but it didn't matter when they set the tone up right.

They had too many blink and you will miss it moments. The this is not a problem with manga since you look at each panel individually. The original anime allowed for much better establishing shots as well as lingering on things to make it clear what that thing was. Kuroneko-sama is obvious in all the episodes, in the OP and ED and nyas (she has an entire track of 'nya' on the second donuts OST). Well, I would have made sure she does that in Stampede. I don't want it to be some sort of cryptid moment in the corner of the screen. Especially, since Kuroneko-sama still appears in the KS extras even bonding with Steven. Oh, yeah, and all the time in the KS anime; on the street in Hellsalem's Lot. Crossing the street in HL. With a monster jar stuck on her head that crashes into Leo. In the ED of B3 & Beyond.

Sure, Studio Orange put Sonic in there but the level of Kuroneko-sama in KS is much higher than KS in Stampede.

A longer series would have also allowed for more of the humor to come through. Trigun has ample slapstick/zany/situational humor that was lost in Stampede. Stampede took itself too seriously. Due to that, they never could turn off the serious mode. But even tough situations elicit humor. In the manga, Wolfwood explains how he doesn't die to Vash more or less but lays down to sleep. Vash then has a full on panic and Wolfwood is beyond pissed - since he's just trying to sleep. Even when Wolfwood is about to die, he cracks a joke with Vash in the manga.

Nightow clearly has a dark and sarcastic sense of humor at times. That could have come through in it and it was lost - to be serious. It is natural for people to crack jokes in absolutely terrible situations and Nightow loves to do this. If the Kekkai Sensen anime took out all of the sarcastic/dry/quips of the cast it would be so terrible. That is what happened to Stampede. They went full on serious sci-fi but forgot about the plot, characters and motivations.

5.) Included the strong religious undertone. Correctly. Much of the Christian and Buddhist themes were lost in Stampede. Why does Vash cling to an impossible ideal/moral code? The role of suffering and turning that other cheek. The creepy accurate angel designs for the plants. How Vash and Knives were of a virgin birth of angelic beings with one falling from grace. The oodles of Catholic guilt that trapped Wolfwood and Vash. But trapped Wolfwood more. Why do people have different lines they can and cannot cross? What is right? What is justice?

All we got in Stampede were crosses mixed with a zia (perhaps) and concept art of the Eye of Michael where all the women are hotties. This goes 100% against the modesty of the original and the lack of fan service. Nightow does not draw his characters to be hot nor does he want to put in relationships - especially with Trigun. Kekkai Sensen has only one known relationship, K. K. and her husband. Which is great, but we aren't there to examine their relationship. Instead, K. K.'s family motivate her to do her job and protect them.

I should really wrap this up as it has gotten far too long. However, what happened with Stampede is Studio Orange likely got so into making their mark on the series and giving it a new angle that they lost track of how to make it work. What story makes sense? How do you depict your characters? What type of pacing do you use for a twelve episode show which may or may not get more episodes?

If it really were in development for five years, I can't help but think Covid-19 really messed up some of their work and why things ended up disjointed. Or they had too many people involved or too much input and tried to include it all. Whatever actually happened, they needed a tighter linear story and consistent vision. Which they lacked.

#ask #answered ask #trigun stampede #trigun anime #trigun maximum #studio madhouse #studio orange #yasuhiro nightow #what i would do

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