#su critical -

[heritageposts]

hewwo all my sweeties!! 💖✨so i just started watching this really cute cartoon called steven universe, but i saw someone here say there's some really icky problematic stuff in it?? just hoping someone could help educate me thanks <3 uwu

[sophieabigail2021]

[saiscribbles]

Lily Orchard STILL Doesn't Understand Steven Universe

I decided to round out the year by ending Lily Orchard's whole career.

Fair warning: I swear. Alot. Alot alot.

About a month ago I decided to react to Lily's two most recent Steven Universe videos from 2023 on my weekly art stream. The reacts ended up going so well I have now edited them down into one comprehensive video with visual aids and gags along the way.

So if you ever wanted to hear me clown on an SU hater for 2 hours while giggling incessantly, making gremlin noises, explaining SU and info dumping all of my own headcanons... well now you have that!

Here's to me becoming more of an unleashed gremlin in the new year.

[hoaxghost]

Which SU defense videos were you watching? I could use some positivity tbh

Two videos made by Hiding in Private break down notorious SU-criticism videos

First one is taking down the arguments of EzPz and E;R, two really bigoted content creators that gained WAAY too much traction considering they're just repackaging racism/homophobia/misogyny as 'funny memes'

Next is critiquing the SU analysis by Lily Orchid whose video was full of bad-faith interpretations, misunderstanding of how cartoon plots work and poisoned the discourse on the show for a good while.

There are a few minor gripes I have with how HidinginPrivate handles some critiques in the latter video but they overall summarize a lot of my issues with SU-discourse. It's a good show!! I'm tired of pretending that it's cringe!!!

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

I really don’t mean this to sound rude at all but like…

What is the point of having celebrity voice actors or guest-stars if it means you either:

1. Can never have another episode or plot line with that character

Or

2. Have to replace the celebrity voice actor with an actual voice actor for all future appearances???

It’s one thing if it’s like. A one time character or cameo. That sort of thing works for shows like Bob’s Burgers, which is extremely episodic, or if it’s for a character that is only relevant for one episode, and isn’t going to make future appearances.

But for characters that have plot-relevance, or that you want to showcase a lot…well…what’s the point?? It’s maybe ONE thing if you do have a really huge budget, but indie shows doing this seems really counter-intuitive.

What was really the point of having Norman Reedus voice Striker if they couldn’t afford to bring him back? Especially when Edward Bosco who has taken over the roll could have done an absolutely wonderful job with striker from the beginning?

I’m not asking this to say that Norman Reedus did a bad job. He’s a very talented actor, but the only reason to have him come on the show seems to be for clout? Which is really bizarre to me.

It reminds me of when Steven Universe had Nicki Minaj on the show as Sugilite. I LOVE Sugilite, and I think Nicki did a fantastic job voicing her, but I can’t help but wonder if we’d have gotten more of her if a voice actress had been hired to play her.

I’d like to see more of Bee, but the likelihood of her ever showing up again is very little, unless they get someone else to voice her.

Same thing with the new celebrity VAs they have slated for future HB episodes. And yes, it is very cool to have John Waters voice a character for you. But I wonder if he’ll ever be a part of the story or main cast, or if he’ll come in and we’ll just never see his character again.

It makes me think of when an animated movie comes out and all the trailers have long lists of A list celebrities who are in the movie, but don’t really showcase the story or animation.

HB having celebrity voice actors never feels like they chose the VA because they were the best person for the job. It comes off as getting celebrities to drum up hype and pull in more viewers. Which I mean. You can do! That’s fine.

But it may mean that we’ll either never see those characters in speaking rolls again, or that they’ll have to bring in a less expensive VA after the fact for all future appearances.

And if that’s the case then. Again, what’s the real point???

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

i really desperately need someone to teach writers that redemption doesn’t require forgiveness. you can redeem a villain without making their victims forgive them for all their horrible crimes. it’s completely possible, i promise you.

[blackfilmmakers]

Imagine creating the Ghana flag in order to replace the UK flag and rid of it's colonization influence over your country, only for Ian Jones and Rebecca Sugar to be your grandchildren

I'd haunt them!!!

THEY WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY TO MAKE US FEEL BAD FOR THE COLONIZERS I CAN’T STAND IT-

[gartenofbanny]

Helluva Boss and Steven Universe honestly share the problem (more specifically Steven Universe after Season 1), that being both shows set up plot points but don't even mention those plot points for a long time until certain episodes are released.

Both series waste the audience's time with pointless filler episodes without even mentioning or hinting at what happened beforehand. Though Helluva Boss is a bit worse because not only does Helluva Boss ignore the antagonists within the show, the writers instead add more antagonists within the show only for those antagonists to be ignored for pointless filler episodes.

While Steven Universe managed to actually conclude (with a pretty rushed conclusion) and only had one major threat The Diamonds, Helluva Boss just keeps adding major threats and doesn't even have a clear end goal.

What's gonna happen after every single one of Helluva Boss's antagonist gets defeated? Are all of the characters just gonna have a fucking orgy? Actually..this is Helluva Boss we're talking about I'm pretty sure Vivziepop will make that into a joke since she liked fucking Sausage Party.

But will this show even end? Less and less people are viewing the episodes (Unhappy Campers doesn't even have 10 mil views as of posting this), less and less people are buying the merch, and more and more people are leaving Spindlehorse entirely. Not to mention the new anonymous reviews about Spindlehorse that have been shared to the public.

The strike that's going on is possibly affecting the release of both Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss and considering that people are starting to become more and more critical of Helluva Boss imagine what the overall public will think of Hazbin Hotel once that show releases.

A24 has done fuck all to actually advertise it and for possibly good reason, I mean they were working with Vivziepop of all people.

So at worst Helluva Boss will be cancelled or will still go on with albeit very long episode releases which doesn't go well especially with poorly written shows. Since the audience will just lose interest overtime and watch the next big thing (most likely Lackadaisy).

How did I go from comparing two poorly written shows to predicting how Helluva Boss would fall off even deeper? I don't know, it's 11 pm in Texas and I just had a thought that turned into like 4.

Anyway, goodnight everyone ❤️

[weaselbeaselpants]

Hold it, hold it- HOLD ON.

So SaiScribbles is bringing to light the fact that, on top of everything else alleged about her, Lily's most popular video has a lot of pieces ripped from two articles written by Jaimie Kingston (WuhWack, need link) and Riley H (Medium) complaining about SU's racial problems.

Other than being a bit on that 2016-2019"your fav thing is bad and you should feel bad"-spectrum of criticism that would later fuel our dumb anti v proship discourse we have today, I think the arguments made by Jaimie and Riley against SU are solid. Sai and her commenters are kind of otherwise treating the criticisms themselves like they're the problem and that they ought to be 'debunked'.

As I've stated a few times now, I'm a fan of Steven Universe and even I don't think they handled all the discussions of race and conflicts well. I like the Diamonds as villains and liked them being 'redeemed' -yes, SU truthers, I too have read Rebecca's explanation and how Steven doesn't really forgive the Diamonds. I know that's the intent, mine and other people's counter is that wasn't very well communicated or done particularly well, and yeah no matter how you spin it or put it in the context of fiction; the Diamonds were interspace war and overlords and the series and Steven himself made peace with them- Also, I thought the Garnet anti-racism psa was kind of in bad taste and talking-down to it's audience.

As far as complaints I'm not able to speak for because I'm white as fucc: if Sugalite's design, the human zoo plot, the way the crewniverse drew lips and people of color (AS people of color themselves) is uncomfortable or offensive to you- you're within your right to be offended about it and dislike Steven Universe on that basis. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Just because an LGBTQ or BIPOC person had a hand in making something does not mean it can't still be offensive: Velma, The Nutshack, Hazbin Hotel and Netflix's Good Times, though shows for adults, were written with/by/for bipoc folks-- that DOES NOT mean there aren't any problems with those series. I can personally think SU beats all those shows into the ground but that doesn't mean it can't be racist just cuz I don't want it to be.

I kinda feel like Sai is missing some of the point of the og articles, dunking on them for ever making these complaints and being upset, when the real focus should be on how Lily pulled an honest to god James Somerton.

What Lily did with Jaimie Kingston and Riley's is proof of her greatest flaw as a critic and activist: she uses (or 'steals') other people's criticisms to fuel her own hatred of something. Moreover, she phrases these criticisms made about the thing she hates as being an inherent moral failing on people who defend it and so her takes are the correct way to feel and think. That was not the point of either article, regardless of how I think they were written. These articles were written as a potential call-out at worst*, Lily's vid was a straight up attack on the Steven Universe fanbase as a whole.

Lily can try to say otherwise, but what she's really angry about is that Steven Universe wasn't written exactly like how she wanted and she's pissy because the fanbase was and is still really toxic. Both these reasons are valid enough to be all 'ick, I hate SU and I hate how god damn in love the fans are with every aspect of it'. You can fill up an entire video with just rants about the fanbase and the writing quality. If you don't know how/don't CARE TO articulate, add upon, link, or source another perspective that's not your own, DON'T TOUCH UPON THOSE TOPICS.

This is why I otherwise leave out the criticisms to be had against Star vs the Forces of Evil's diversity activism fails. I have 'thoughts' on it, as a white fan watching a show by a white creator about a white girl trying to be an ally, but my point in omitting them from this discussion is not to say these problems aren't there and worth talking about. I don't have faith in my own social awareness to talk about these issues I don't have a perspective on. I can talk of them, but not about them.

Even if Lily is native, which she could be (not what this post is about), she is not black. She sat here talking for black people using black people's words as if they were her own -> blocked these writers for stealing from her. And then she[Lily] went and made a couple dozen Nazi-references to the whole issue of genocide in the show -> when Jewish fans and listeners told Lily to maybe not do that (especially cuz Rebecca Sugar is Jewish), Lily dismissed, blasted or blocked them outright.

Lily only cares about social justice when she can use it to benefit herself and her own selfish ideas, feelings and wants.

Allies (of any kind, speaking for a group they aren't a part of) may be misinformed, apologetic, ignorant, rude or abrasive in how they go about their activism. There's no exact right way to do any of this. But, there is always a wrong way.

[whereserpentswalk]

It would be funny if Steven Universe and Finn the Human met. Like, Steven probably couldn't convince anyone in Ooo to stop hurting people, but Finn could probably convince Steven of the necessity of violence in certain situations.

[emma-o-yt]

The Diamond Authority is not a metaphor for abusive family.

I don't understand why Steven Universe fans are so pretentious, do they think a basic figure of speech makes Steven Universe deep or something? So metaphors are a comparison of two separate things or concepts by calling one thing another, example: "She was a lion, roaring at the crowd". The woman's shouts at the crowd are compared to the roars of a lion in order to exaggerate, create interesting prose and imagery and also give depth to her action.

SU fans argue that the Diamonds are just a metaphor for abusive family. But, that's not what a metaphor is since they quite literally are just an abusive family. They aren't exactly like a human family but they are the gem equivalent.

But what about them being a fascist dictatorship? That's not a "metaphor" for abusive parents (and it would be a terrible one anyways). Remember, the other gems are not treated as family but as subjects, so they are automatically left out. They're like Ozai, abusive parents and dictators.

The "abusive family" thing isn't even a thing until like season 5. Before that, they are the manifestation of society's ills (eugenics, homophobia, genocide), and the impact they have is mostly on the other gems, not Steven. They are two separate thing (and neither are done well https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/1aupslu/steven_universe_the_victim_blaming_of_rose/).

Also, Steven Universe has the racist relative already in the form of Andy Demayo, the fact that they addressed this archetype already leads me to believe the Diamonds are more than that.

You can't complain about "media literacy" when you don't have any yourself. It's a kids' show for fuck's sake.

Side note: So glad Encanto and Turning Red came out and blew SU out of the water with their stories on abusive family and interpersonal relationships.

[heritageposts]

It's a shame you've fallen for authoritarian propaganda.

i already said i was sorry for watching steven universe i didn't know about steven's knife :(

[sophieabigail2021]

[nine-leafclover]

And this my friends is a wonderfully example of fandom brained losers coping and seething about there being people who don’t like their favorite thing in spite of the fact that we made separate tags that they can filter out anytime.

But keep in mind, we’re so “exhausted and exhausting” because we’re inconveniencing this jackass personally by living rent free in their head.

[ilikekidsshows]

I noticed that disliking Steven Universe is now considered "cringe culture" and the fault of "long hiatuses between episodes" and "buying into facism conspiracy theories"

Nah, Rose Quartz was a slave owner and the show never acknowledges this and that's what I hate about it. It has nothing to do with "You can't handle a morally gray character" THE SHOW IS DENYING THE PART WHERE SHE'S NOT JUST MORALLY GRAY BUT MORALLY MURKY LIKE THE MARIANA'S TRENCH

I don't care that she got called out for running away from her problems when her slaves are just treated as lovers who weren't good enough, and the writers and fandom think it's so sad and romantic

I don't care that she was made into an abuser when her abuse victims decide she improved enough as a person to forgive WHEN SHE NEVER IMPROVED. SHE STOPPED HITTING HER SLAVES BUT SHE DIDN'T STOP HAVING THEM

Her enforcing Pearl's geas happened after the supposed redemption into a freedom fighter, and she didn't undo this command, since it's still in effect after her death. Rose died a slaveowner.

What Rose did to Pearl was horrifying and inexcusable. And yet, she never regretted it, she never took it back. And the show never condemned her for this

That's why I hate Steven Universe. It has my least favorite trope: slavery that's depicted as romantic

[icepoptrio]

the most online stance im willing to have is that the su critical girlies did nothing wrong and deserve an apology