#that doesn't mean that lore-less SMPs are bad!

[sparks-chaotic-cove]

SOS SMP has been going on for a bit- and while I've only watched a little bit of it, the outrage around the lack of lore seems so weird to me.

Because for one- these creators owe nothing to you specifically. It is your choice whether to consume the content. If you want lore, go write it yourself! Make your own characters, then you have a world of adventure at your fingertips you can daydream about.

Secondly, there is so many more lore SMPs out there you could watch, that are just as good as what your favorite big streamer's or youtuber's do. Go back and watch Pirates SMP! Look for other SMPs, like Kaboodle SMP, Fable SMP, Siege SMP, etc- Go back and watch Outsiders SMP, or Rats SMP!

You are not entitled to anything from the creators you watch. Sending death threats and harassment because this one SMP doesn't have lore compared to the thousands that do is just showing how much of an entitled child you are. Suck it up, and if you don't like it- don't watch it!

[slime-sandwhich-nom]

Little details I love about dsmp charlie (that were obvious already but I love pointing them out for the 14757366 time I just need people to understand the potential of this dude.)

- he hates how humans eat. He just finds it disgusting HHSJAJS

He said it specifically in foolish stream that he hated how humans eat, chew and then swallow and let it sink down "a tube" (our throat) and he was really disgusted and weirded out by it.

Then if I remember right he also said that for him, that's not the case. He just puts things inside his slime and let's it absorb (which is less disgusting in his opinion.) < forgot if it was true or not for this small little part.

- he has no idea about sex or reproduction in general, heavily implying slimes reproduce asexually (asexual king 🙏‼️)

And that the others think of him as innocent despite him proving that he is not, he's just old as hell and NOT a human

Foolish tried to explain it as a joke to mess with him, with the "when two people love each other very much.." but everyone, especially Fundy and quackity, made foolish shut up because charlie shouldn't know yet (implying they think of him as innocent ^)

In my opinion charlie would either be disgusted by the actual process of reproduction or sex in general but if you explained it to him as "two people made a baby :D" he would think humans split like slimes HSHSOOAOSLAPSJ

- charlie probably thinks sleeping is the best thing ever.

Like, we know he likes sitting it place for a long time, and what's better than laying down for around 8h thinking? (As he can't sleep or close his eyes)

- he's so bitter and cold when angry dude, it's beautiful.

first of all, we saw how kind of everyone in the smp when angry always scream, cuss, or throw hands, but charlie is probably the only one who doesn't.

He's silent, he's calm, and he's collected. But the best part is how easy he kills.

Not because he takes such a short time, it's how easy he does it. We were basically shown from the start that charlie as a nihilistic, he did not care about death. Not because he didn't understood what it was or knew what it was, but because he didn't care about it.

he knows PERFECTLY that humans can and WILL die, and he doesn't care about it. He often always talked about how things don't matter because everyone will die at the end, and he finds it difficult to focus on such little things (like soccer or any sport) when it'll literally be over one day (because he finds them useless to watch and observe, so he just doesn't.) so he enjoys looking at the actual important things (apparently humans are one of them, but he probably watches everything as it dies and reborns again, so.)

He cares so little about death, that he can kill someone without remorse. Literally, when he understood that purpled ALSO manipulated him, he wasted no time in throwing purple off and kill him. And he just, went on with his day.

And not like you can make him feel bad by talking about how you don't wanna die or have so much to do, he. Will. Not. Care.

He will deadass answer "everyone will die in the end, I'm just speeding up the process"

His nihilistic mindset was something that I was always interested in.

- according to lore, as much fun it is when people draw charlie as a green dude walking around instead of a human looking guy, that is not the case.

in lore we've been told that slimes are able to shapeshift into anything and are great at it, they can perfectly copy something and it will difficult understand the difference, but that's because they use blocks, they don't talk, they don't do anything, of course it's hard. But this also means they can copy and recreate texture and looks perfectly.

And this means? This means that charlie was probably a very realistic human guy walking around. He canonically has the uncanny valley feeling. The only thing that throws him off is his odd behavior, (and poor lying skills.) And the fact that he has two slimes on his head and shoulder. (What charlie describes as "human bits")

We know this because of the slime lore we've been told and the skin. Charlie changes skin depending on what happened to the character (when he was dormant and in the finale he was more slime looking.) And considering that for most of his lore he was "human looking", the uncanny valley fits, I'm NOT CRAZY I SWEAR (love how people draw him as a green dude walking though, very silly.)

- this might be a stupid fact, but he literally steals people's bones. Like my man saw Jschlatt and went "holy shit, bones, sick" and took them.

- the fact that his slime hurts when hungry, or he was simply stating that he was hungry by trying to mimic how humans often say that their stomach hurts when hungry (or when it makes noises lol)

- he CAN split, he just can't leave it, so this makes me think that he can split and reform as he likes.

- he's possibly older than foolish. We know he's old, but according to quackity he's centuries old and he knows foolish "from a long time ago" (idk how old foolish is though.)

- I'm pretty sure it's not stupidity, but when he ate the pupper fish, he saw how it gave him nausea and all, but decided to eat it anyway, and I think it's because for him poison is not deadly but for humans it is.

He's not stupid come on, just silly.

(it was probably like eating something spicy.)

[hopalongfairywren]

For the ask game, 🥚, 🔪, and 🏳️‍🌈?

🥚 - To what extent should the Eggpire's former members be held responsible for their actions under the Egg's influence? Oooh special interest, be prepared for a long-ass answer. Also, since this is gonna be so long, I'll just reblog my answer to the other two questions. TLDR for those not interested in individual explanations: It varies character to character but for the sake of angst, drama, personal enjoyment, and enjoyment of seeing my favorite characters going through it, I love incorporating this very question into my own stories as a very real side-plot and moral question between revenge and rehabilitation, which would tie in well with the other concurring arcs' themes of retribution, what the line between justice and revenge is, redemption, loss of trust... Ugh talk about waste of potential in canon.... (God forbid the dsmp ever let multiple plotlines intersect in a way that is cool and ties the whole story together) Anyways, I answered this a long time ago, and since then the egg finale happened, so I have a new opinion. c!Hannah, Ponk, even Ant (although he was a blood thirsty little murder kitty) stay the same in that, they were all desperate people taken advantage of (and sometimes even abducted) into being egg-controlled, much like a real cult. Unlike a real cult though, where no matter how brainwashed someone might be we generally treat them as responsible for the crimes they committed, the egg has mind control at it's disposal.

I still don't know how the egg is supposed to actually work in canon lore, like as an ancient parasite, as a fungus, as a supernatural curse...? And at this point we'll never find out, but the point is these people- all of them but especially those three, were under the egg's complete control of their minds, and if not that then at least their was some version of TLOU cordyceps-esq type scenario, but where even if the egg's influence on their minds could at least wane somewhat, (I'll get back to that with the other three offical eggpire members) It still controlled their bodies via muscles. (This probably isn't intended at all, and if the egg solely controlled their muscles, the infected would probably be less able to do things such as plan banquets... but it's a fun concept to explore) Now for the other three, c!Bad, c!Punz, and c!Skeppy (I know he doesn't technically count but I'm ignoring that.) c!Punz is a special case because I feel like they either forgot or didn't care that they were at one point a part of the early eggpire. They weren't at the red banquet. And even though I thought they'd be a Chekhov's gun type situation where he'd come to play in the revival book lore, where it could have been revealed c!stagedduo were working to strengthen the egg as equal-partnership (at least in their minds) allies, in order to distract the SMP by using the killing of c!Vikk and Lazar as a means to feed the egg. Or maybe the Sam Bucket finale stream, or the c!Sam's multiple bodies finale, or the egg finale, or even maybe the finale finale Tommy finale. Which could have with Punz unleashing the egg on c!Clingyduo, betraying c!Dream for it, or idk, something. But nope he was to busy being a walking revival book and god forbid the loose plot threads of the dsmp ever get tied together in a reasonable manor. Also their was that time he was kinda sad c!Tommy died and showed signs of resisting the egg but that just. Doesn't line up with any further characterization we get of him, especially that finale. But even though c!Punz wasn't there at the most memorable egg atrocity, if we're talking about holding dsmp characters accountable for their atrocities, there's a whole other laundry list of crimes c!Punz committed while fully in control of his body. c!Bad is also interesting, because does seem to be able to break out of egg control for a moment so he can yell at c!Skeppy. But that obviously didn't last long enough for him to not go ahead with the red banquet... But it's worth remembering he like the first three was desperate for Skeppy to come back, although that isn't an excuse for any of his actions. But if anyone besides c!Ant was gonna be punished for the red banquet, or c!Sam being trapped, or the multiple Puffy assassination attempts, It would be c!Bad who organized, lead and founded the eggpire in the first place. (Hey c!Sam why'd you demote c!Hannah and treat her like shit for betraying your trust when c!Bad and c!Ant, the men you had carry out one of the jobs you consider most important, keeping c!dream in the prison betrayed you not once but fucking twice, and three times if you count c!Bad giving enderwalk c!ranboo the prison blue prints? And lastly, c!Skeppy, who wasn't a part of the official eggpire but may as well be the reason it formed considering c!Bad's motivation. But i'm not focusing on that, i'm focusing on the last egg lore stream, where it's revealed c!Skeppy made a deal after waking up from his death unegged and killing c!Bad to uninfect him, and then presumably coordinate everything from the red herring evidence being planted to pushing c!Puffy down the hole. And I think he was reinfected somewhere along the way? Anyways by that point I don't really think anyone cares about how in control you were of yourself or why you listened to the giant murder egg, you done fucked up and started the apocalypse.

[lilyfreshwater]

There are many reasons why dream smp lore died but I think the inclusion of ranboo was one of them. He was the reason c!clingyduo died in the Lore (not totally dead but you know what i mean) , Wilbur and Dream started including him in their Lore over better options. He should always have been a secondary character, he never had the impact to be a main character. He wanted his character to be this OC that you insert into the stories that he doesn't want hated by anyone but that was a fatal mistake (the writing was also bad)

ive said this before and i'll say it again, ranboo had a huge part in destroying what made the dsmp revolutionary. he created such a big distinction between lore and non-lore that other people felt like they had to have these super emotional and serious performances all the time. he changed the fans expectations too, and the lore ceased to have room for joking and laughter. on top of that, because of the gap between lore and non-lore, fans valued the downtime between lore events less until all people were doing was big lore streams. no one ever went on the smp to just fuck around and chill and be themselves anymore. which was a critical part of the lore and understanding the characters. i can't think of another piece of media that popular that not only shows multiple povs of every event, but also shows all the little moments in between that make a character truly relatable. so yeah, ranboo did have a hand in destroying the dream smp, at least from my perspective

[ranvwoop]

I "briefly" explained the fire emblem au, between it's original concept and recent developments.

So. It's very loosely based of of 3H (also known as FE16 actually, it's the 16th installment of the game and the lore doesn't really carry over. I mean it does if you squint really hard but it doesnt) except my memory of 3H fades by the day. A new sequel Literally just came out but uhhhhhh. But I will explain this as if nobody actually knows what I'm talking about. It gets a bit long.

The very very basic plot of 3H is that there is a boarding school split into the titular Three Houses, pretty much based on nationality and heritage. There is, basically, the red house, the yellow house, and the blue house. Five years after the first half of the game, the children have left school and are now fighting wars with eachother. Oh also the school is run by the church, and just called The Monastery. Also, the main character is a mercenary turned teacher who becomes besties with one of the house leaders (... or the school staff, i guess, there is a fourth route) and then that's the house that you follow for the remainder of the game. There is also magic politics.

But. In my au specifically :]. Wilbur is a prince who has been. acquired. at a young age and raised like a normal guy (by Phil). As he's coming of age he's sent to Politics Boarding School to learn how to rule a country one day. He brings Tommy with him. This goes exactly how one would expect. They are very loosely the yellow house, along with the rest of Basically Lmanburg.

Tubbo is a prince by virtue of being the son of the acting king, but not the True Bloodline or whatever, and is very glad that Wilbur showed up and put a larger buffer between him and the throne. He is also a tactician, as the game is like a battle strategy game, which is a Very Important role.

In the Lmanburg house is also Niki, Jack, Schlatt, Fundy, and Quackity. Niki is a commoner, she is still very much the Average Citizen (however, she leaves and joins the church for protection at one point as the political environment at home gets Bad.) I have no idea what Jack's deal is yet actually. Fundy is a prince who has a small territory inside Lmanburg to his name, and is glad that Wilbur is back. They are Cousins, which will be a very catchall relationship modifier as this moves forward. But they were very close before. Y'know. Wilbur got Anastasia'd, Basically. Disney's Tangled'd? I don't know. Common trope. Moving on.

Schlatt is also a prince with a small claim to territory, however he's older than Fundy and Tubbo was sort of coerced into cedeing the throne to him when it was time. So he is Not Pleased that Wilbur showed up. Quackity is also a commoner but has fought very hard for his position here, and tends to cozy up to Schlatt for Security.

And that's the Lmanburg house BUT THATS NOT ALL. There is More. There are three of them, as the title implies. It's loosely Greater SMP / DSMP and The Badlands / Eggpire. It doesn't fit to neatly box them in, especially with even numbers, buuut ehhh. The important points to note is that Dream is the head of what is loosely the blue house, and BBH is the red house. And then there's the Church, which is actually where my interest lies. It's less faction-oriented and more just who I thought would fit but.

The head of the church is Foolish. There are knights that protect the students and sometimes instruct classes, who I can remember off the top of my head as including Eret for the DSMP, Puffy for the Eggpire, and Techno for Lmanburg. (Now one would say this doesn't make sense surely Eret should be with Lmanburg but uhhh. Uhhhhhhhhhh. idk. The whole. king. bit)

But all of this main character material is Boring my little guys are the syndicate. We know this.

Phil is a cleric. He is also an Actual Historical Saint in the church, but he cannot tell people that so Yup he's just a magic priest. He meets Technoblade as a child, and they just sort of keep running into eachother until they're besties. He has an obligation to be an apolitical figure, due to the neutrality of the church and he doesn't want to be Starting Wars, but he's advised by Kristin (one of the gods) that there will be tragedy at Lmanburg Royalty Palace Idk and Phil rescues the child from an assassination attempt, and raises him in secret to ensure he doesn't become a political pawn for someone with worse intentions.

Technoblade is A Little Guy. He keeps running into Phil as he's sort of growing up, and finding his role in the world. He does not like institutions after being born a poor farmer and having to deal with authoritarian abuse in the distant land of Hypixel (of which he tries to work to liberate from Said authoritarian abuse). He is a bit of a fool, trying to find a purpose between almost getting killed for sport, meddling in political activities that he doesn't necessarily understand yet, and getting a Reputation for himself. Him and Phil stick together eventually and Phil sort of helps guide him. It's a Techno origin story. This makes him sound like a bad guy but he's Not he's just small and has become a folk hero and has to deal with how exactly he Can impact a world that sucks, a lot. He develops about it.

I forgot to add that when Wilbur is old enough, Phil convinces Technoblade to teach the school kids how to fight.

And Ranboo. Well. It requires a 3H Canon Explanation again there is a magic war crime group and they do unethical magic expirements on children. There is like a whole magic hierarchy but it's like. It's weird. Some kids are born with Magic Superpowers called Crests and they're gifts from the gods/descendants of the However Many I Forget Saints (Phil, in this au) and it's like status but. But there's the magic war crime group. They're analogous to the egg, here, due to both the abuse towards and facilitating of by the leader of the red house. (BBH is both a victim and a perpetrator of the egg Etc. because. cult. moments)

That's what Ranboo is up to. He only really comes in during act 2, because he is very much not royalty and worked in Tubbo's castle while he was away and is assigned a position of power at some point. (bc the original lmanburg falls apart as it did in canon). At some point he is kidnapped and he suffers Magical Brain Damage impacting his memory, as well as giving him The Ranboo Look (canonically these expirements give white hair and red eyes So). When he shows up he does however sort of jump ship and align with what is Even Looser the church which sort of becomes an independent identity of the syndicate, as it's sort of run by Phil due to Foolish going into hiding.

... along with Ranboo, there is a sideplot in which Butler is also involved. He is worse for wear than Ranboo. These expirements are not designed to be survived. There is another layer of the crest thing in which the gods were murdered and dismembered and their body parts were used as tools. Basically they're looking for the heart of a god to use as an alternate life force because Boy is he not doing good. And this was when I started woobifying Butler and Billiam. As I Should. (They meet Technoblade along the way. Technoblade the anti-establishment man is like Yeah Sure but then Phil is like Uhhh maybe you should not obtain the heart of a god actually and Techno is like. Well. Look at this situation I am now in.)

[itssideria]

well. i woke up to that devastating 'lore's gonna end' discussion, and. i think i'm gonna post my take on things.

to preface: i started watching the dream smp properly mid-season two. we're talking like, when tommy moved in with techno? so i was never there for the daily streams that were so common during exile and season one—i just kinda hear about it and get sad that i wasn't there, lmfao. my entire experience of dream smp lore has been streams that are always a few days to a few weeks apart, which is definitely going to inform my take on things here!!

my take, however, is pretty optimistic. i have several reasons for that.

first up: the lore has been planned.

like, we know this. it's been confirmed. ranboo has shelved plans! wilbur has about 8 of his 12 lore streams left! quackity has stuff filmed for las nevadas! dream has been consistently doing his evil imprisoned villain thing on other people's streams, and technoblade had plans that he had to delay because... yknow. karl wants to restart tales, and has a comic book series in the works for it! jack, sam, foolish, sapnap, george, phil and other 'lesser involved ccs' (i say this dubiously. their lore is super fucking cool) have all done lore streams in the past two months!

this shit is planned, guys. they have ideas. they know where they want to take their characters. they're not uninspired or unmotivated or whatever, they know where they want the story to go.

which brings me to my second point: they want to do their lore well.

i will readily admit that this point is based more off my own observation than actual, stipulated fact. of all the ccs, i think we've only had wilbur, quackity, and karl outright say they want it at a higher-than-ever standard. but as i've said before in this post, and as i'm going to say now, the cc's style of lore has changed, and it's definitely changed for the better.

streams are shorter now, has anyone noticed? they average around 20-40 minutes, instead of the 1-3 hours people got so used to in season one and early season two. and you'd think this would equate to less storytelling, but it doesn't! if anything, we're getting character and plot development faster than we ever have before. this is because the cc's have largely cut the filler, and only left in the plot.

think of the last few lore streams you remember—wilbur’s, quackity's, techno's. they're absolutely action-packed, and fully in character—no bloopers, hardly any filler. wilbur took us from revival to fort big to the burger van in the span of, what, three streams? which is so much faster than it would have happened in the past. and while we do miss out on the chill, soft, character-revealing downtime, this really isn't that bad—it works for the ccs, now that they're busy, it progresses the story, and it ensures that we, the audience, get to see that story unfold. the smp, essentially, is adapting: times have changed, as have content styles and schedules, and this is the best way they can change with it—by changing the way they deliver lore.

finally, and this a point i make based on my post-season one perspective: i do think that the current, pessimistic view of 'the lore's ending' is rooted in season one nostalgia.

again, i never really got to experience the long, daily season one vods. i only got the hour-long daily streams from the second half of season two. so while the change to the short, spaced-out season three streams was weird for me, it was not by any means jarring—i don't really have anything from earlier months to remember, you know? and because my judgement isn't influenced by that, i've never really felt like the dream smp was dying—i just felt like it was becoming more spaced out.

this isn't to hate on or pretend i'm somehow better than the people who were here since the start! you guys are cool as shit, and you don't know how much i wish i could have seen season one live. but it is me gently saying, "hey, maybe the people most worried about the smp dying are thinking of a past that no longer exists?"

the conditions under which the smp started have changed. we no longer have quarantine or super-heightened covid regulations keeping us inside. the ccs are more popular than ever, and (rightfully) want to capitalise on that popularity. it's only natural that the style of the smp will change, too!

think of your favorite fanfic author or comic artist starting university. their uploads are going to be few and far in between. but they'll still definitely be there. and they'll still be dedicated to the story, and they'll still want to see it through! but they'll have to change the style, schedule, and method of delivery to achieve that for you—asking for anything else is basically saying, "i don't care that your circumstances have changed, i expect this to stay the same." your reaction is not born out of rudeness or malice, but it is discouraging, and it would be far nicer to try your best to adapt to the new circumstances.

TLDR; i don't think the smp is dying, not in the slightest. i think it's undergoing a change in storytelling styles, and it's becoming more spaced out. the cc's have lore planned and want us to have it in the highest quality, and the most pessimistic people are maybe just attached to the season one nostalgia.

feel free to send me asks or dm me about this!! im down to discuss it, and i hope this doesn't come off as being condescending or attacking. have a lovely day <3

[dreamsclock]

i know you recently answered an ask on this, but i was arguing with someone over this and you didnt talk about it in your previous post so i thought i'd ask

cc!eret said that c!eret was c!dreams longest manipulation, and honestly i dont agree. it just doesnt make sense with the lore. the person i argued with, he was basically asking why cc!eret got such a huge reaction over this retcon when other cc's retconning stuff didnt. i made the argument that the previous lore didnt support the narrative that c!eret was manipulated, so it was a huge change that pretty much contradicted what actually happened.

he then said that what he had a problem with was people not taking what "cc!eret said about their character is canon as a source."

what are your thoughts? personally, i just find this retcon to be really messy, which is a huge part of why i didnt really like it

retcon, i find, tends to be a messy thing when it a) isn't supported in canon or b) isn't a mutual decision by both roleplay parties, which is what this feels like.

yes, cc!eret is of course a source for their character. it's THEIR character, and at the end of the day, if they insist their character was manipulated by c!dream regarding the betrayal, it's still easy to see "manipulation" as just a battle tactic rather than manipulation. i still have a problem with c!eret being seen as a "victim" of c!dream's, though, which is what the post says - and here's why.

so for retconning to actually be effective in a roleplay server like the dream smp, it needs to be accepted by both parties: in this case, cc!dream and cc!eret. and while cc!dream hasn't come out and said anything AGAINST the claim, his character doesn't support this view, and neither does canon itself. c!eret's betrayal - and them not feeling bad about it, especially not at first - doesn't just affect them, it affects so many characters and plots. there's a reason one of the lines of the l'manburg anthem is "fuck eret", there's a reason one of c!tommy's most quoted and popular lines is "eret, listen to me, and i mean this in the nicest way possible: you fucked up". it's because c!eret did fuck up, in their eyes, and she wasn't upset about it. c!dream even ASKS her: "do you regret it?" and she replies "not at all" (paraphrased). to retcon this, and have c!eret be a long-time victim of c!dream's, takes away from c!eret as a character - it affects her whole redemption arc, where she slowly realises being king isn't worth it and where they attempt to redeem themselves through joining manberg.

it also furthers the flawed narrative that c!dream in early season one was this huge manipulative mastermind, which even some non c!dream apologists can agree just isn't true. at the time, c!dream was a determined leader against l'manburg, and that was about it. he was cautious, he was an overpreparer, he came with twenty backup plans and was desperate to defeat l'manburg. when c!eret came to him with the offer of betraying l'manburg (which, iirc, was what c!eret thought was best for the smp), c!dream accepted, because of course he did: if you have the opportunity of taking the enemy down from the inside, of course you're going to accept. this isn't manipulation, and classing it as such doesn't make any sense.

not to mention, the retcon itself is less of a retcon and more of a reassignment of blame? in my mind, a retcon is the erasure of something big - a character's arc, an event (think c!tommy stumbling on c!techno's house in exile arc too early, el rapids, c!george getting involved in the story, etc) - and these are always dealt with in ways that give closure and that make sense. el rapids fell apart because a) the butcher army were formed and b) kinoko kingdom was created, eventually leading to c!quackity's arc with las nevadas. el rapids was retconned super successfully because at the time the plot was several threading narratives that would eventually connect to one - same with c!george and dethronement, another aborted arc that was successfully retconned. in both cases, they were dealt with in a way that gave closure and also made sense... even though c!george's dethronement could have cast c!dream in a bad light, cc!dream successfully ensured that he added in lines that also argued against this. in any case, it didn't cast another character in a completely negative light - which is what the retcon of "c!eret was manipulated all along by c!dream" does.

in conclusion of this incredibly rambly thread, while it is ultimately up to cc!eret, i'm not sure cc!dream would ,, necessarily agree? and i'm not trying to speak for him, but it feels like both of their characters contrast on this view, and it doesn't feel very supported in canon. if this is a retcon, it's a clumsy one in my opinion, that doesn't quite work - if it's not a retcon and this is what they've intended all along, i don't feel like it was quite shown enough in their storyline.

the retcon is generally less accepted because i think it wasn't handled quite as neatly as other retcons throughout the story have been, and also because ,, there was no problem in the first place?? as in, there was nothing in the story that didn't work before the retcon, if that makes sense. with el rapids, there was a problem in that the plot didn't work and it was decided on by all parties to retcon that in favour of other arcs and plots. with c!eret, nothing has changed other than a reassignment of blame (which could be very well because cc!eret is frustrated with the distrust their character still gets from other characters - they've spoken about this before and it makes sense that they might reassign the blame of the betrayal/kingship to c!dream to make her character seem more sympathised with in canon - but this is just speculation!).

[jjkyaoi]

ranboo and tubbo are talking about the difference in lore streams, and that gave me an idea for a post so i'm gonna go on a ramble. everyone in the smp has such a different way they go about lore, and some of them are more "professional" or planned, or more cinematic in the way —glances at karl and quackity's lore style— but some of them more rely on improv and banter between others or are just simple, but that doesn't mean they're less,,...... like, enjoyable??? like, my interest tend to lean towards the improv based lore because there's a second to breathe and sometimes there's more funny moments because it's all improv with friends —and that's why i like the beginning bits of tales so much— but that doesn't mean i don't think the planned stuff/the more cinematic stuff is bad or less in my eyes, and it can be different for anyone else! the point is. just because a sort of style of lore isn't your favorite doesn't mean it's bad in anyway, even if it isn't as big or as crazily planned.

[dystopiandilfs]

Okay here's some genuine constructive criticism, opinions and advise for Tales based on reasons why I don't like Tales as a whole.

If I was to be in charge of Tales instead of Karl here's what I'd change/add.

Warning if you click read more you will be faced with opinions, some of which can be negative. You have be warned.

Firstly I wouldn't have so many people involved purely because you don't have time to flesh out all the characters enough for people to get attached so they don't care when something bad happens to them. Less people also means you can spend more time introducing each character and explaining why they are specifically there and how Karl got there.

Secondly I would make sure that the people I do invite take it as seriously as I want it to be perceived. You can't expect people to take your story seriously when half of the people involved spend more time making jokes and derailing the stream. Having a group that consists of 4 taking it seriously and 4 fucking about is a bad thing. Nobody is going to focus on the story if you've got Quackity and Sapnap making dick jokes. Not once for Tales has Karl's name trended but everyone else always does because of them making jokes. Karl is somehow the least memorable and important person in his own character stream.

Next I would actually tone down the production level. This means no extravagant builds being commissioned, no big fancy intro etc. This is purely because Tales feels like a spin off au series to the DreamSMP instead of actually part of the SMP. A huge reason why things like Las Nevadas and The Prison were so amazing was that they were built in survival by people on the SMP rather than a build team being commissioned to create a big fancy build in creative on a random server. There's such a huge disconnect between Tales and the SMP because of Tales being the only character story to not be on the SMP and it's only connections being easter eggs and cameos. Honestly hiring a team to do all the work just seems lazy and you can't expect people to connect with your lore when you yourself aren't even involved in creating it an the only connections you have is playing it.

Next thing I would do I switch up the layout of things, the whole basis is time travel but we never really get into the time travel aspect of the story so if it were me I'd start the stream off in Kinoko and head to the library and grab a book and the story in that book is basically what happens in the stream and the book is written by the other time traveller and Karl is time travelling through each of the other time travellers stories to figure out what happened to them. He's basically copying the other time travellers path and each episode gives more hints on who the other traveller is and what happened to them.

I'd also link what happened to DreamSMP events. For example the other traveller stole a spore of the Egg when they came across it on their journey and hid it in what is now the SMP, the egg was reawakening after Karl also came across the egg and accidentally brought back some of the egg power which is what reawakened the Egg that was found by BBH. Another link would be specific people and items so for example Karl brings back a diary from when he visits the town that went mad and Foolish later finds it and we find out that Foolish is the reason the town went mad. Basically the whole thing is that Karl is trying to figure out what happened to the other time traveller but doesn't know that he's losing his memory and he's bringing back things to the SMP which have big effects. He's basically unintentionally ruining things whilst trying to fix them not realising that he's fucking things up.

Next thing I'd change is face cam. I've always been someone who said I don't like character lore or story lore having face cam because I feel like it takes away from everything and my thoughts still stand here but what I'd like to add is for Karl to not do a just chatting segment before and after the stream aswell. Just have a timer before doing the lore like Sam and Quackity and just end the stream after the lore. I don't like people doing lore and then going "what did you think" like just end your stream and raid someone.

Next I'd focus more of building Karl's story over everyone else by having smaller streams in-between the big ones that is purely just Karl. They can be in character or just cc!Karl doing a just chatting stream where he talks about and explains his character a bit more. Let's be real nobody leaves a Tales stream knowing more about Karl's character or even remembering anything new we might have learned because he doesn't spend enough time on it. Everything explained about Karl's character is immediately glossed over by some other big reveal which is why I think solo streams are good.

Next I'd focus way more of actually creating a story because at the moment it seems like Karl only focuses on the last bit with the Inbetween which is fine but it's also only 10% of the whole stream which is why he has to rely on fancy build and cc appearances to carry the story because he doesn't put time into actually writing anything for the main chunk of the stream. Which is also why Karl can never control the group because nobody knows what they're supposed to be doing because there's no story or structure.

The only things people actually remember are the Villains, Ranbob and Billiam for example. Half of the people who watched Mizu can't tell you anything other than cc!Dream woke up to play a toxic murderous Dream stan in a Ranboo au cosplay. The only thing people remember about the Murder Mystery Mansion was Techno's character, The Egg and Quackity not knowing how to spell economy. Nothing about Karl's character is remembered because anything important is glossed over and there's no time or attention put into building a character to the point of it being over shadowed by the dumb names people give their characters.

Basically Karl needs to focus on creating his character and building the main part of the stream rather than the final 10 minutes because having a switch from friends messing around to serious lore isn't going to have the effect you want because people are going to focus on something else. I mean more people tweeted about Ranboo being the other time traveller than anything else and Ranboo wasn't even on the stream. (also Ranboo isn't the other time traveller bet)

Also hot take Karl should stop inviting Quackity, Sapnap and George because they're never going to take Karl's lore seriously and all they do is derail the situation. I love the three of them but they can't focus for 30 seconds and always are the reason why Karl has no character story or memorable moments and don't help Karl build his story in any way. It genuinely baffles me how Quackity can be so serious on his own lore streams but can't even shut up for 30 seconds on someone else's.

[cartoonrival]

With the latest lore, what do you think would be the best way for Sam to incorporate this many bodies thing into his character to make it better?

At first I was excited because I found it an interesting concept but after I calmed down a little, I think it makes smp!Sam too op and would be better suited for another character that already doesn't have the large amount of development smp!Sam has.

I also kinda miss smp!Sam being just this normal overworked guy who is a horrible little man with too much on his shoulders despite the entertaining thought of him being a terrifying eldritch being.

(Preface that every time i say “human” i mean human in character and mentality because obviously c!sam is a creeper not a human lol) I think it kind of takes out the “you’re just a man, and men can die” aspect of sam’s character. he seems so powerful because he’s the warden of pandora’s vault, he’s singlehandedly securing the most horrible and dangerous person on the server, people are scared of him, etc, but really he’s a terrified and broken man who’s moral compass has been set askew because he bit off more than he could chew. He’s just a guy.

As far as how best to integrate this new element, i would say that it’s significant in relation to the revive book because now sam doesn’t need it anyway, but the problem with that is he was never really doing this (ruining himself in the name of keeping dream imprisoned) for himself in the first place. It’s always been for tommy and the safety of the server at large, so learning that he doesn’t need the book doesn’t do much because, for me at least, i never assumed he was doing it for himself to start with. The revelation could have a big impact on other characters: he becomes far more frightening once you learn that he can basically never die, which would be a significant realization for people like dream, quackity, or techno, which in itself i can’t decide if is a good thing or a bad thing or just a Thing.

Now actually answering your question: If quackity learns, i think it would be good if he took it as a sign that he can use sam for bigger, riskier tasks since he can’t die. This way, sam’s inhuman-ness would be countered by someone else taking advantage of him because of it, which i think could balance it out some. It could also be a good way to further push sam away from people he loves if they find out, since he’s been keeping a massive secret from them and they might feel lied to since the sam they’ve grown attached to isn’t “the original.” making him less human also might drive a wedge into how much other people feel like they can relate to him or connect with him. Again though, i prefer his relationships falling apart for self-inflicted reasons or because of other people’s supernatural attachments (the egg) clashing with his lack thereof. But i’m making the best of the situation here.

I don't think that integrating ancient magic elements into sam's character is necessarily a bad thing. when he first mentioned being interested in including it, i'll admit i was a little adverse because i was afraid of pretty much this exact situation lmao, but i think it could be fine and even good if he was dabbling in it, like he's curious and unfamiliar but he's trying to make his robots (like sam nook) better so he integrates them with a little magic. he needs to make pandora's vault more secure so he integrates a little magic into it. maybe using this sort of magic drains his psyche somehow like how dark magic affects people in fantasy books. i think it could be fine if we as viewers could witness how he was discovering it and slowly starting to use too much of it in a way that was dangerous to him and representative of his increasing paranoia. but this is erm not really that.

I do think quite highly of cc!sam’s ability to write characters, considering c!sam is one of the few characters on the smp who, generally speaking, i really do think is as deep as i talk about him, so i trust that he’s not going to do something horribly dreadful with this new element considering how hard he’s worked to get c!sam where he is rn. Obviously i can’t stop thinking about it though.

[zeta-in-de-walls]

Just a comment on your post about immersion and roleplay styles--I think it's great that there are so many styles on the server and I can definitely see why you personally prefer Tommy's, but for me (and others, I imagine), that level of immersion is really really hard/stressful to engage in. Doesn't mean it's bad, of course! But I like to be able to follow a story without /feeling/ stressed myself, so I generally can't watch Tommy's streams at all. Techno's style provides breathing room for me.

Oh yeah, if streams stress you out, I get that! It's all for fun, never feel obliged to watch anything. I'm happy people enjoy Techno's streams for sure. I think that what I really like about Tommy's streams is not there for Techno for me so I enjoy them less. But others who don't care for Tommy so much may like Techno more. And there's also people who are simply able to love both. It's cool that we get a bunch of different styles on the Dream SMP! It's one of its strengths as a medium.

Don't feel pressured to of course, but I'd highly rec some of Tommy's more chill streams too even if his lore stuff is a little too intense. He's really good at the funny, lighter stuff as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM8IiCGFJgo like this stream where he builds a tower and hangs out with Wilbur, Tubbo, Jack etc.

Anyway, yeah, thanks for the other perspective! This fandom can get pretty polarised at times which is a bit of a shame, so thanks for sending such a lovely ask!