#thats not even old enough to groom someone that's not enough of an age gap

[datingsimluvr]

The Controversy surrounding Call me by Your Name:

This is just a mini rant about call me by your name

TW: Talk about Pedophilia and Grooming

Its honestly sad to see how people interpret different media depending on how popular it is. some people will point out that fucked up books/movies like Lolita have a deeper meaning than what is shown, but at the same time, say that cmbyn sucks and it has pedophilic undertones. It's gotten to the point where I start to wonder if some of us even watched the same movie.

I got into a debate about cmbyn with someone who was much older than me. I remember them saying something along the lines of "Oliver was praying on Elio", but its honestly not like that. I think the main problem is how most people will just take something one person said and run with it.

Cmbyn is so much more than a "older guy praying on a younger guy", and that interpretation on the movie is discrediting it by a ton. Alot of people bring up the age gap. Oliver's 24, while Elio's 17, and then on the other side of the argument people bring up age of consent laws/the legal age in italy. None of those are the point.

Andre Aciman's other book Enigma Variations, tries to convey a similar point, the point being young love/infatuation between an adolescent/teenager and an adult. When comparing the two, Cmbyn isn't really a love story as much as its a story about loss and the discovery of sexuality. While everyone watching is rooting for Elio and Oliver throughout the movie, They don't really realize the power dynamic between the two.

In the book, it's made clear that Elio craves Oliver more than anyone that he has loved before (use the underwear scene as a reference); It's also made clear that most of this longing is not necessarily love, but instead admiration, and lust from the heat of the summer. At points in the book, and some parts of the movie, you can catch onto the "game" that their playing. While its outright said in the book, its harder to catch in the movie because of the way thats filmed. (and thats what I think makes this movie so amazing.) If you don't know what I'm talking about, throughout the movie/book, they have this unspoken game that they play where they're trying to impress the other and show eachother that they are worthy of eachother, but at the same time, see which one breaks and admits their feelings first.

Call me by your name and Enigma Variations bring up one of the best points ever, I remember some guy on reddit brought this up on a thread about the situation. You don't wake up on your 18th birthday "sexually mature", And he was right. Nobody brings this up enough because it's an awkward and sensitive subject on its own. We gain our sexual maturity through our teenage years and puberty, but because its such a sensitive subject involving minors, nobody wants to talk about it. This is what makes cmbyn feel so real, raw, and in my opinion, it's what makes it an amazing movie/book, and what makes Andre Aciman an amazing writer. He's willing to talk about the awkward parts of sexuality.

(Source: Data lounge)

Another argument that people bring up is how in an interview, Andre Aciman said that he was attracted to a 12 year old. Adults should not have relations with minors, but i do think he's speaking the truth, and it's normal to have those feelings as long as you don't act on them. Obviously im not promoting pedophilia at all, but I do believe we dehumanize human attraction. I'm not saying we should celebrate it, but instead just acknowledge it. The difference between a pedophile and someone whos not a pedophile is impulse control, and thats how I interpret what Andre Aciman said.

If you made it this far, thank you so much for reading my little rant about cmbyn, i love it so much, but i know its a very controversial movie/book, and alot of the controversy is some very serious and sensitive stuff. I am in no way supporting everything that Andre Aciman does, as I literally don't know anything about him other than his books, and I absolutely do not support Armie Hammer in any way.

[hirokiyuu]

talking abt yuujin and their awful ex on twt and now im still thinking abt their rship. warning for age gap rship discussion + general toxic behavior

was waffling on how old i wanted takuto to be beyond An Adult (when yuujin was definitely A Teen) and i think ive settled definitively on abt nine or ten years older. twenty-four when they meet (yuujin is fifteen) and twenty-five by the time yuujin is brave enough to make a move (yuujin is still fifteen)

butl ike the thing abt their rship. as bad as it is. i cant call it grooming bc grooming requires a level of like......... intent on takuto's side that's just not there. yuujin is the one who makes the first move and while any even half-decent adult wouldve stopped it there takuto just doesnt care enough to bother. like i think takuto is self-aware enough to know its shitty but thats not like. going to stop him. in some ways that almost part of the appeal. doing smth terrible is another reason to hate himself and by extension the whole goddamn universe

i think ive talked before somewhere abt how takuto is simultaneously the best nad worst thing to ever happen to yuujin in the sense that like. hes a fucking tar pit of a person and really exacerbates the nihilism of them but also is like, the entire reason tehy dont self destruct at like age sixteen and then get themself in an even worse situation then the one they wouldve ended up in w/o him (ie they stick it out til prolly age 20 having met takuto as opposed to winding up a teenage runaway) and thats like. in no small part bc theyve met someone who also thinks the world is a cesspool of misery LMAO

but i think yuujin is literally just flatout the one and only true connection takuto has ever had in his life. hates his family never had friends in school did not make it into college and none of the coworkers he ever had before ever liked him til finally one day he meets this kid who's like. already more disillusioned w/reality than most ppl he knows. and like. dont get me wrong. this doesnt mean he treats yuujin well (lmao) at teh same time the only way he would ever be able to overcome his shit is (assuming yuu goes back to reality post twst) is to realize that yuujin found a way to be ok w/being alive. maybe he could too.

[easy-baked-oven]

i didn't get groomed she was just mean!!

[volfoss]

Giomis 🥰🥰🙏

omg love and light u wanted to see me SO pissed tonight <3333

not even apologizing for this one but if u ship them uh fucking burn <3 but ill separate into bulletpoints for ease of reading

the fucking age gap besties are u really out here thinking an 18 year old quote unquote lusting (from what ive seen from fanon, its uh like that) after a 15 year old isnt predatory

so uh teehee let me kinda go thru some of the points id imagine the gross bitches would make for wow omg giomis canon:

affection: so its literally? like very easy to see that mista is someone thats canonically affectionate (ie stuff w narancia post the sale fight) and absolutely not remotely a reason to be like omg wow theyre so in love wow hes hitting on this 15 year old

the whole gun scene with the cioccolata fight when giorno was literally just?? like not fucking grabbing the gun from his hand, like hes not shooting steadily w one hand so he was steadying himself? especially when he presumably doesnt have a lot of use with a gun

the scene post the ghiaccio fight as if araki hasnt literally done this shit before (which idk to me it kinda uh feels a bit homophobic in the way of not treating gay ppl seriously but besides the point) with avdol and joseph and ive never seen anyone really be like omg this is THE part 3 ship the way that giomis is very much like a prominent part 5 ship

idk like im sure some ppl are bringing up shit like wow they work together in fights (which literally ALL of the main team do) or wow theyre the only two alive at the end but i literally will not go into that tag to find out idc

but onto the reasons i literally just do not get the appeal and hate it and will personally send u to the incinerator if u ship it. there is like 0 chemistry but also fanon understands these two guys like the least? wow i sure love reading fanon where its giorno cardboard cutout giovanna and guido horny as shit to the point its noncon mista

like not remotely that it would be good without the fandom not understanding them at all, but it just adds another layer onto this shit sundae

canons timeline of a legit week or less doesnt remotely give enough time for anyone to really develop meaningful relationships (which wow is why i literally do not understand like ANY giorno ships because dude he knew them for a week at most and thats nowhere near enough time to like get along with anyone or know them enough esp w like idk fugo and trish) but sure we're gonna slam these characters together because wow the main jojo HAS to be with someone else because god the jjba fandom is so fucking shitty with shipping everyone with someone but thats also just a general fandom problem

i just i dont see how hard it is to realize hey maybe lets not do a 15 year old and an 18 year old (im also fucking subtweeting the gross fucks that are also out here like omg trish x mista.... die <3) because literally the 18 year old has a few years on the 15 year old and it can definitely be positioned as a grooming situation

ppl just really fucking slam both giorno and mista with anyone that moves and its like? why? why does watching a show mean u have to ship people? why do people ship BOTH of them with fucking diavolo and members of la squadra? idk maybe its not enough that giomis in of itself is disgusting but people really make shit worse because they just dont know how to handle these characters

its literally just a friendship my guy, did u forget when mista shot giorno like unprompted? idk not like wow omg cute ship material. people just really need to pair giorno with ANYONE and cant even think of him as his own character (also a problem w mista fanon wise, but idk i blame giomis for this bc of how prevalent it is)

its so so hard for people to just realize hey not everything has to be romantic and not everything has to be interpreted as romance

anyways teehee fucking perish if u like giomis and block me 😍

[lady-super-sized-bitch]

Okay, yknow what? Let’s do this.

Age gaps in relationships are not inherently bad.

Yeah, I said it. Because every person on here thats upset about Dan Avidan keeps citing the age gap as what was wrong with that relationship. Even though the grooming was proven false, a LOT of people are still trying to cling to the initial outrage by citing “the age gap”.

My mom was roughly 23/24 when she met her second husband, who was 21 years older than her. He had grown ass children almost her age. They were married 8 years, and the only reason they divorced was because she wanted kids and he didn’t. She waited long enough for him to change his mind that she almost missed her window for having kids. They parted amicably. She met my dad (who is much closer in age to her), had a short engagement, had me, and divorced my dad when I was a year old because he was a fucking asshole abuser. Because he was my dad though, she kept him around for my sake, until I begged her a few years ago to cut him out of our lives because of how deeply unhappy we were and how unstable my dad was becoming. We moved out of the house we shared with him and it was the BEST decision ever.

A year before we moved, I encouraged my mom to reach out to her second husband again because she talked about how happy he made her. I did not know ANY details about him because she was extremely sparse when talking about him. She reached out to him, they started talking again, and within a few months I got to meet him (in secret bc my shitty sperm donor would’ve literally blown up). Before going in the restaurant, my mom told me how much older he was. I still wasn’t really prepared for the visible age difference. He is quite literally old enough to be my grandfather.

But yknow what else I saw when I first met him? I saw how he greeted my mother with a hug and a kiss, a “hello, sweetheart”, how he held the door open for her and myself, pulled out her chair at the table, joked and played with her at the table like a couple of teenagers, and not once was sarcastic or dismissive of her in conversation. Quite literally the opposite of my dad. My dad never, I mean literally NEVER was fond or affectionate with my mom. He’d tell me she was going to die alone (when I was 11), that her family hated her (her family hated him in actuality), and that she was trying to turn me against him (when in fact thats what he was trying to do).

A man who is 21 years older than my mom, who met her when she was in her early/mid twenties and entered a relationship with her, is an infinitely better partner than my shitty dad - who was my moms own age - ever was in the 20 years my mom kept him around for my sake. And yknow what else? He’s a better dad to me than my real dad ever was.

So stop saying age gaps are the problem. It’s not. Whether y’all want to realize it or not, 22 year olds (which I am!) are responsible for their sexual choices, whether it be having relationships with shitty people their own age or people that are decades older.

Is it shitty Dan ghosted her? Yeah. Was it probably another example of celebrities taking advantage of the fan/celebrity relationship? Yep. But it’s not because of the age gap. A 25 year old celebrity can ghost fans they sleep with and no one bats a fucking eye. The ghosting and relationship dynamic is what was the problem here, not the age gap.

The gist of it: stop assuming every relationship with a considerable age gap is automatically wrong. As long as the people involved are consenting adults, you can’t govern their relationships because you think people should be with someone their own age.

Also, to those few out there still insisting that a 22 year old can be “groomed”, fuck off with that. Grooming is literally what pedophiles do to minors in an effort to make them easier to molest and make sure they won’t tell about the molestation. Stop generalizing a term specifically meant to signify a pedophilic behavior. You’re making what pedophiles do more acceptable by generalizing a key characteristic of pedos. Grooming is something that explicitly happens to minors, full stop.

[cc-tinslebee]

ive heard some pretty unsavory things ab you from someone and i want to clear them up if thats ok?

- do you ship hellcheer (eddie x chrissy)

- are you a billy hargrove apologist?

- do you call charlie nuwanda?

ok that's all i just wanna know

I wish I could say that I’m not a little hurt hearing this, that someone is gossiping about me like this, but I suppose I can’t help what other people do. I’ll try my best to explain my side.

I hope this clears things up. @j9grd I really appreciate you bringing this up to me and giving me the chance to share my side. The last thing I want is for anyone to be hurt by the things I post. And — as a general note — if anyone sees anything on my blog that is incorrect or offensive, I understand just hitting the block button, but if you’re willing and able to reach out to me to correct me, I will listen to you and attempt to correct myself. I’m only human, still learning and willing to do so.

1. Do I ship hellcheer?

The answer is a little more complicated than yes or no. I like the actors’ chemistry, I agree with Joseph Quinn and Grace Van Dien’s comments about the two, and the dynamics of the ship are very appealing to me. Ultimately, however, I think in my mind, the ship works best in the context of them reuniting in the future, when they’re both grown adults, and Chrissy has come more into her own and become the person that SHE wants to be, not who her parents and Jason want her to be.

I feel like the underlying question here isn’t about them in particular, but rather the discomfort surrounding the age. And let me tell you, I’m very vocal about uncomfortable age gaps in media. The Billy/Karen situation sickens me, but even more than that, I understand that even amongst teenagers, there can be gross power dynamics. I’ve witnessed first hand the grooming of a freshman friend at the hands of a senior.

Ultimately, I have very strict rules in terms of shipping and age gaps. I think that if your partner will be old enough to drink whole you’re still in high school, that relationship should probably not be happening. In terms of adults, however, usually I prefer no larger than 11 year age differences.

2. Am I a Billy Hargrove apologist?

I made a post about this, actually, but the tdlr is that I’ve been attached to Billy’s character for a while, but am just now realising I don’t like him that much. I just want more for him.

He’s an example of a messy abuse victim. And, unfortunately, the reality of the fact is abuse victims still living in that situation are not going to be perfect or even good people.

Billy has racist ideologies. He’s violent. It’s all he’s ever known.

But the way some people, especially on TikTok, talk about him, like he deserved to die, doesn’t sit right with me. Because another reality is that the way you talk about abuse victims in fiction effects the people they mirror.

And by all means! Tear fictional racists a new one! Seriously, I wholeheartedly mean it! Racists shouldn’t get to feel safe in their ideologies, because they don’t let anyone else feel safe with it.

But saying that an abuse victim — not yet able to leave his situation and grow — deserves to die? It doesn’t do anyone any good.

The bottom line in my mind is, I like fanon Billy. That’s the character I like. The one who worked through his shit and actively became a better person. The one who apologises to Lucas and Max for being shitty to them without expecting forgiveness. The one who protects Max and the kids. The one who had a chance and took it.

3. Do I call Charlie “Nuwanda”?

Short answer is: no.

I initially did when starting out in the DPS fandom, but quickly discovered the problems with his chosen name, as @j9grd so kindly provided the link to in the ask (thank you, by the way). To me, Charlie choosing that name is a prime example of what I’ve witnessed online, which is (some) white trans choosing name from other cultures as their own; which is a problem as non-white people have been mocked for having those same/similar names while white people are praised for it.

I’ve written, I believe, a singular fic where Todd calls Charlie “Nuwanda,” though I was sure to disclaim in the notes that it was a display of Todd’s respect for Charlie (a canon observance, that after Charlie’s announcement, Todd hardly called him by his birth name again), not my own point of view, hopefully reinforced by the fact the name was only uttered in dialogue, not the actions and descriptors. I’ve also posted a fic on behalf of my friend where Neil notes that he’s having a hard time getting used to Charlie’s name change, but respects it. Again, this was out of characterisation, not agreement. In the informal sequel to this fic, my friend, the author, has Charlie realise he needs to find a name that better suits him (one that’s not a mockery of a culture that is not his own).

I would like to say, in the light of the Stranger Things questions, I will be minimising what I post regarding Billy and Eddie as I do not wish for my intentions to be misinterpreted further.

Thank you for your time.

[maschotch]

Okay okay okay, so I saw your opinion on Hotchreid (and I also saw your tags saying you wanted to have a discussion but also like only maybe cause the ship is a squicky one for you, so I totally understand if you don't respond to this).

So, at least for me, there's enough evidence in the show to say that Hotch is only 10 years older than Reid. In the episode where we meet Sean, Hotch says something along the lines of Sean being 25 years old, and Hotch is only 10 years older than Sean--this is in season one when Spencer just had his 24th birthday. So, to me, Hotch is 10 years (maybe 11) older than Reid. Does that make the age gap better? Probably not. But in the real world, once you're older, having a lover who is 5 or 10 years older than you isn't that big of a deal (I personally know older family friends who are 9 years apart and they've been married for 45 years and counting).

I totally see the father-son dynamic between them, too, and I freaking LOVE platonic Hotchreid. Hotch being there for Reid as a father figure is one of my favorite things, and I love the fics where Reid goes to Hotch for help or support.

Okay okay so, I honestly cannot tell you why Hotchreid is my favorite ship--because as much as I joke that it's my daddy issues, I legit can't stand Daddy Kinks (no hate to those who love it). For me, I think their relationship would happen by accident. It starts with them having intelligent and fun conversations (it's well known that Hotch is very intelligent as well, though maybe not with an IQ of 187, haha). I can see them eating dinner in Hotch's office while discussing law and science and psychology. It just *grows* from there, becomes something fun and teasing, until one day they both realize that they want more than just friendship. For me, Reid sees Hotch as his intellectual equal. He's always been younger than his peers, so he doesn't see the age gap as an issue (though Hotch would, for a while).

I dunno if I explain this well enough for you to understand, lol, but yeah, that's how I feel about it. That being said, I am in therapy c; LOL! And I still totally get why Hotchreid isn't everyone's cup of tea. I personally cannot understand Hotchniss or Demily because to me, they seem more like siblings than lovers (in both cases), but I get why people love them.

Anyways! I hope you have a wonderful day <3

i have given up on criminal minds ages tbh. the writing is far too inconsistent to even try to argue with it so im just gonna say that if thats the ages you think, then thats what they'll be for the rest of the discussion! bc who am i to say their ages when i have no fucking clue how old they are akjsdhlgs

i understand that there are some real life age gap relationships that can be perfectly healthy. and age gaps definitely dont matter as much when you're older! someone middle aged dating someone 5 years younger/older is no big deal. someone 20 dating someone 5 years younger/older can be pedophilia. my own personal bias against age gap relationship are probably not as inclusive as they should be and im aware of that.

reid and hotch are certainly on the same mental intelligence level. reids higher askjdg but that doesnt translate to emotional maturity. its very clear that, at least early on, reid is definitely not very emotionally developed. he definitely improves as he gets older

this is the dialogue that crosses a line for me and prevents me from seeing it as romantic. hotch plays an active role teaching reid how to be an emotionally capable individual. and even though reid was over 18 when they met, even though reid is very intelligent, he is still developing as a person. and hotch is helping him through that

i just think that when someone is helping another person grow and fully mature as their own individual for the first time, they have great influence over how they end up. so anything romantic coming from that.. thats just.. grooming

to be fair, im very very very VERY conscious of this as i engage with media and interact w fandoms. im a star wars fan, and a lot of popular ships follow a similar dynamic: falling in love with the person who helped you grow up. and thats just... thats so inappropriate to me. even if the older person would never intentionally abuse that, its still a wildly unhealthy power dynamic that makes me really uncomfortable. its just something im hyperaware of in fandom spaces because its such a common trope that people sexualize.

with the rest of the team, its not as relevant because they were already developed in that particular arena. they've all had relationships before, they've all lived their own lives and had their own experiences and their own ideas of whats right/wrong and who to love. hotch wasn't directly involved with their development as a well-rounded individual.

i appreciate you explaining to me your thought process behind it, so i just wanted to expand on what specifically i cant wrap my head around so that you can give your reasoning on why this isnt a concern for you. if you have a response, please send another ask because i really do want to know more.

and i totally get the sibling thing for emily/hotch and morgan/emily. i agree on morgan/emily being more a sibling thing. and im totally fine with hotch/emily being completely platonic like its no biggie for me. im not really a big "shipper" but its fun to think about sometimes, and they're just the ones thats easiest for me to think about probably because theyre my favs and i do nothing but think about them all day

AJSDLHF actually in therapy :* me too~ lets get better ~healing and love

thank you for the ask tho fr. its not something ive ever really tried to think about, so any reasons to enjoy it are lost on me simply.

[letmesleepy]

Are you done? May i speak? Ok then

First, right off the bat its obvious you dont even know the definition of the thing you are defending. Pro ship isnt "supports ppl enjoying ships" it means when you partake in ships of all kinds, regardless of age, consent, or even if theyre family. Yes you too. Saying "supports" doesnt suddenly mean you are exempt from it. You are not a bystander. There are no bystanders in this sort of behavior, there are only those who allow it, and those who dont. Its that simple. I have seen the community, i know what i am talking about. I have seen ppl recklessly stumble around the concept of horrible, most of the time abusive relationships, no self awareness as to why in real life they are bad, only thinking about "shipping", alongside ppl who will look the other way, while trying to remain "neutral".

It is not a "neutral stance" and if you truly believe that then i feel sorry for you, genuinely, because someone fooled you. Yes. Fiction and reality are different things. But that doesnt mean they dont interact. That doesnt mean they dont effect each other. If fiction didnt effect reality, we as humans wouldnt have been making fiction. Thats the entire point. We love creations that effect us. From the fucking beginning we have been telling stories that make us laugh and cry, because they effect us. Even some change us. Shape us. Lets take for example; childrens stories. Like say a kids show, thats main theme is how kindness is good. Why would that show exist? To shape. To effect reality. By changing the kid. Helping them realize they shouldnt be mean to their friends, because their favorite character is kind to their friends, and it makes them feel good to be kind.

Surely youve watched kid shows as a kid? Seeing characters eat a delicious cartoonish meal that made you wish you could eat it? Doesnt that count as fiction effecting reality? Or perhaps you would argue that they are impressionable kids. That it isnt the same w adults. Then lets use adult examples. Like trans adults. Did you ever notice when some trans ppl have names they got from fictional characters? Because the fiction effected them and made them deeply connect with that character to the point of absorbing them into their identity? Like myself? A name of mine that i got from a video game, where i was called this name by fictional characters who fictionally loved me, which effected me to the point i found deep comfort in that name?

But please, lets get back to you. You say there are studies that show fiction doesnt effect reality. Where are they? Do you have a dependable source? You didnt include it in the ask, and since you seem to believe you are trying to open my eyes, im going to guess it was am empty sentence. I am not a child, simply saying "there are studies" doesnt suddenly make me go "oh shit scientists are working on this!" No. It makes me think yer wasting my time.

And ofc. The age old sentence. "Seeing murder on tv doesnt make you wanna commit murder." Really creative. Real original. Its almost like we were never saying that. Almost like we were saying "hey if you act like this thing that harms ppl is normal, ppl vulnerable to grooming might see it and think that the horrible thing happening to them is ok." And you might think "psh no one would think that. No ones stupid enough to see my age gap fic and think its actually ok irl!" Well. Lets use me as an example again. Cuz yer trying to change the mind of the wrong person anon. Cuz its quite insulting, as someone who read fics where rape, and inappropriate age gaps, and other such things were ok as a kid. Which then, ya know, lead to me believing they were ok, which lead to the most horrible moments of my life. But, enough about me.

Lets discuss this demonizing over having moral purity you speak of. Demonizing is a strong word isnt it? It implies yer innocent, and we are guilty. As i have no way of knowing who you are, lets say for a second thats true. That yer innocent. Since you somehow found me i will assume we have similar media interests. Lets make up a scenario, hm? You are an innocent person, who ships Frunn and Frinn. Frunn and Frinn are brothers aboard a spaceship. They rarely get along, especially in such a limited space, most of the time the bonding is forced by Frunn manipulating his brother. He often takes control of Frinn, making him do things he doesnt wanna do. Yet you see it as romantic. Why? Wouldnt it make more sense to go "gee thats fucked up. Glad thats not actually happening" and move on? Why have you decided to instead imagine these two toiled brothers are romantic, even sexual with each other?

Are you not capable of media analysis? To dissect the ins and outs of their relationship, to understand the art of the eternal battle of family vs family? Or, instead of allowing yerself to process it, digest it, you moved towards the only way you can interact w media, via shipping. Maybe you say fiction doesnt effect reality, because you dont let yerself consume media, properly. You do not let it effect you, you do not wonder why this scene stuck w you, you do not want to have deep thoughts. When you say fiction doesnt effect reality, you are saying you do not see past the surface level of what you consume. You are telling everyone you are not capable of thought.

Yes, fiction is "make believe", but it also tells us things. For once in yer life listen to the story. It is real to us humans because we attach ourselves to stories. Teaching doesnt start and end with school match, it is in every single story. If fiction did not effect reality, representation would not matter. Kinning wouldnt exist. Fictive alters wouldnt exist. Hell for the love of god take cons for example. If fiction didnt effect reality we would not have cons. Period. Because ppl love to dress up as characters that have great meaning to them, or represented them. We would not have merch, of any kind. If fiction does not effect reality, why do we try so hard to make that fiction true? Why do we roleplay, and craft, and draw that which we love? Hell yer fuckin ships wouldnt exist either if it didnt. We wouldnt have art of any kind. We wouldnt create. Cuz we as humans, like i said, love things that effect us. Fiction, as an art, effects us. And acting like it doesnt is not only false, but sad. Cuz it shows you are trying to deny the human call to let things effect you. And yer denying the harm that it can cause if yer reckless. Yer denying the countless ppl who have consumed yer art, and let it effect them, either of its beauty, or of its contents showing something is normal, which truly it isnt.

"Antis" as a whole are not trying to wipe out all problematic content. I for one have a fondness for movies and books that explore the darker sides of things, dissecting and unraveling and revealing why it is bad, yet the offender sees it as good. Its just when you simply, utterly devote yerself to making this, in the fictional world, seem normal, it gives off the impression you want it to be normal in real life. The fiction has effected you. Figure out why and fix yerself.

[ma-lark-ey]

I'm making this post the disclose my current opinions on the Dndads discourse and how frivolous its become.

I would like to preface with one thing;

This post contains content of grooming and manipulation, as this has been the main discussion in this fandom and the issues. I am speaking from my own personal experience, as a former victim of grooming who only recently escaped my abuser. I will not say their name, those who I feel comfortable knowing further information on this already know.

this is my trauma, and I am speaking from my experiences. This is one of the hardest possible topics I could touch on, and I beg anyone who still cares to listen, whether I change your mind or not. Listen.

I've wrestled with my support of this podcast for eleven weeks now. Maybe longer. Since before the discourse became a major thing. I've wrestled with this since episode 34 was released, and I need you understand that.

I need you to understand that I believe the hosts have done what they can to fix these issues. And I genuinely do not see what people still want from them. I will address each topic one at a time, and if I touch on things lesser than others, please understand that this discourse triggers a trauma that I underwent less than a year ago. a trauma I am still processing.

1. Grant, and his over sexualization.

The jokes revolving Grant and his sexual orientation or exploration were sometimes in very poor taste, I am not that blind. I will not defend them or say they weren't as bad as they are. But here'd what people have to think about when we talk about this; Those jokes are already in the episode. They cannot be removed, and the best the hosts can do about that is avoid that humor in the future. Humans are not perfect, and humor is ever growing part of a person, its always a tossup of if a joke will land or not. These did not, and they have not made these jokes since they got called on it.

On the Discord claims about them discussing his porn history, I can say nothing on that. I've seen no sources or proof that that happened. I won't make any opinions or comments on that until I've seen concrete proof that these conversations happened.

2. The Unsafe Discord.

They're Discord is no longer unsafe. Blanket statement, no discussion open. Here's the thing and here's where I'm going into my personal experience; Discords minor precautions arent up to par either. The DnDads hosts have made their 18+ channels, they've made the Discord clear to not be a totally kid friendly place and has tried to separate adults and minors. But they genuinely can only do so much. Minors can easily bypass these guidelines, and that is where we get to the whole grooming argument.

As a grooming victim, this is not the slippery slope people make it out to be. And adult fans,,this is where I'm telling you to sit down and shut up for a minute. Listen, for just a moment. I know I'm "just a kid" but, I've lived the possible outcomes you've thrown out. I lived that experience, and I lived. I survived, and the way you talk about it is so invalidating to me its absolutely disgusting.

I'm prefacing this with this may sound ineloquent, and not as "pleasant" as I usually like to sound. Because with this I expect people to listen. Its not in the public ass Discord server where you should watch out for the child. Its if you see an 18+ individual actively DMing that person, and this minor speaking about this person as if they're a major part of their life.

I need you to understand that I was genuinely wary of one of our own community members when I first began speaking with them, because of this trauma. I wary of ALL of our community members. I didn't share my other socials with people in this community unless I knew their content first. There have been multiple times I've stopped myself from messaging who I will call "My Annus" because of this trauma I've endured.

And I'm sorry, but Waterdeep genuinely has no precautions set in place to separate adults and minors that the DnDads Patreon does not. You cannot act like saints and villainize them, when they adjusted and became you. Then either both of you are saints or both of you are demons.

Children interacting with adults is always a bit set back at first. But I've been groomed. Twice. And you people act like its obvious, like it can happen so easily. And it does, it happens easily. First its them texting you so much you feel overwhelmed, then its them becoming someone you rely on. Someone who makes you pity them.

And its not gonna be people who are SIGNIFCANTLY older. (i.e, I feel much less worry interacting with 30 year olds than I do 18-22 year olds.) Because the adult people that feel 'more understandable' to be friends with cause their just barely adults? they tend to pry harder. They can get away with it. Thats just fact. The people who say "Oh I'm eighteen, but I just turned eighteen" I'm always the wariest of. Not because I'm convinced they're bad people or whatever, but because both times; my abuser was one of those people. This was two different people as well.

And thats what the adults of this fandom won't address. That its not the slope they've made it out to be. Because then they have to retract statements they made, and a lot of people, minors and adults, just don't have the humility to do that.

The only advice I can give to people in the server, who are worried for the minors. These are the only signs I can give you, and this is from my experience or the experience of other survivors I've spoken to, and I'm by no means saying this is concrete.

Abusers tend to be /just/ enough of an adult to be considered on, but not so old that it'll be considered weird for them to befriend a minor. The age gaps I see most often are 14/19 or in that kind of range. They'll go for the lonelier or newer folks, the ones who haven't built their group in the community and are just entering. The ones looking for their place in the hierarchy. If you want to help protect us, you watch like a mother bear when a new minor joins.

A lot of us don't realize its happening until its too late, and by the time we realize the situation we've fallen into its too late for us to get ourselves out. The majority of us have weak wills and a fear of conflict.

3. What the Hosts have done in response.

I honestly, genuinely think the hosts have done a lot of steps in the right direction. And in recent episodes? man, they've tagged their shit better than the McElroys, and no I'm not reaching there.

Honestly, they kind of did before to, on topics they knew were really rough for some people.

When they warned for the Willy Stapler stuff, I was grateful. They warned me I may be triggered by Ron and Willy's dynamic before I was forced with it. The McElroys had a scene with grooming in Grad, and I wasn't warned. I couldn't mentally prepare myself and I had a minor reaction to it. And thats not at all to shit on the McElroys, anyone who knows me know I love that family more than anything. That they saved me. Thats just a statement I need you all to understand.

The Hosts aren't "ignoring us" they're listening to us. They genuinely are. They saw we wanted content warnings, and they gave us some of the best content warnings I've seen. They've content warned episodes I didnt see reason for content warnings.

4. The Transcripts.

Look, this is beating a dead horse at this point. I, personally, have debated beginning to transcribe episode. I know they said they will, and I trust their word. But thats all we can really do, right?

I've transcribed things myself before, guys, and thats hard. and it takes time. and knowing them, they'll want to get all the current episodes up at once, and thats gonna take a hot minute to get down. And we can go into "Well why didnt they transcribe from the beginning?" and well, that's because transcribing just wasn't a thing until recently? Like again, going back to MBMBAM and McElroys, they don't even have all of TAZ transcribed last I checked (I believe their transcriptions go from Grad-Stolen Century, and anything before Stolen Century doesn't have one yet. I may be wrong on that.)

I will not speak on the other grievances and issues people have brought up in the show. The topics I covered are the only ones I feel comfortable speaking on on a public platform, where my words can sway opinions.

There is no TL;DR, because as I said in the beginning; if you can't read this, you aren't listening well enough nor willing to actually discuss the issues you have. You're looking for something to be mad about. Period, end of discussion.

I don't say that to act like I'm some authority on this, or some higher being above all of you for "being forgiving." Because, frankly I don't forgive them. I will continue to support them for making steps in the right direction, and upping their game. But, I won't forgive them for their jokes or the brief lack of precaution in the server. But, I will move on and I will support them. Because, as a victim of the problems people brought up in those situations, the steps the took are the best ones they could have. And I am grateful for that.

If other survivors read this and disagree, you're perfectly valid in that. We all went something, and it effects each of us differently. My heart goes out to you, as well, I know how isolating and genuinely terrifying those experiences and situations can be.

To those who aren't survivors and have read this; I beg you to think about this.

I am open to discussion further on this, but to an extent. There are some opinions I hold in this message that I will flat out tell you to not debate me on, not because of anything other than what I said in this post was hard enough to me to say.

Thank you for your time. EDIT: I implore anyone reading to the read the notes on this post, more information and discussion can be found and all of it is just as important. 

[aprito]

hello <3 since i got these asks at the same time i decided to combine my thoughts on them in this post. yet another annoying sjw essay from yours truly on this blog 

before i get into these i think i need to preface why im like. i guess overly hyperfocused on a certain unproblematic base (same age au / platonic canon) for them and avoid the ped0philic content like the plague lol

tw for pedophilia ment, rape ment if that makes you squicky. ALSO THIS IS LONG AND RAMBLY

as i’ve mentioned a couple times already, ive been into the ship since i was 12, back when it was very very common to not only post untagged (nsfw) canonverse content of the two in writing and in drawing but also non con and the like, so you can imagine how bad my first impression online was. thinking back on it ...as a child i found it disturbing but didnt really register how problematic it really was?? (i know, but i also lived in the middle of nowhere and had no one explain this to me) 

skip to 2014 aka me coming back to naruto at 17ish and i had kinda become hyper aware of the fact that there was an increasing amount of people online who had come forward with explaining how fictional problematic content, mostly pedophilia, had been used to groom them into starting relationships with adullts. it was also a time where a lot of people didnt believe these victims, not registering how common it was for minors to be online friends with adults who had no boundaries and no qualms exposing them such content. not gonna get into my personal life here but i was lucky to not having gone through this myself. like... it kinda was my first time truly realising how fiction can EASILY be used to manipulate others irl (and yes i will not argue this, if you dont think fictional media can form and manipulate people’s opinions on attitudes, countries, cultures and virtues, pick up a book about the effects of propaganda media at least once please) 

i, being young, still liking the dynamic but not really the romance, would point this out here and there in the fandom and get into fights with grown adults in their mid 20s who assumed i automatically hated the ship(s) and tried to restrict their freedom of speech or whatever, heard everything from the “age of consent doesnt exist in naruto” to the “sasori looks like a child what does it matter” despite people clearly playing on him being older and experienced. it made me so upset that people were just consuming all this content uncritically and exposing children to it tbh?? not really just sos but a lot of minor/adult ships in naruto in general. and thats where i sat down and thought, i do not want to be a grown adult talking down to children that point out how unsafe the fandom is. theyre absolutely right in drawing these boundaries and calling out adults who defend the uncritical consumption and creation of this content. i do not want to consume or create content that predators could use to groom minors, and i absolutely do want to let younger people in fandom know that i am respecting their comfort zones and want them to have a safe and fun experience. after all, naruto is not an adult show and i think a lot of people forget that!!!! i am not perfect in that regard but its something that i, at the age of 23, am very passionate about and strive towards to.

and i guess thats where same age au was born for me and i have been sticking to it ever since. 

so finally we can move to the first question 

aside from the fact that we both dont like canon sos, i dont think it would work out even if i wasnt prejudiced to it anyways. in all honesty, 35 year old canon sasori is not a redeemable character to me, given the fact that he’s easily amongst the cruelest villains in naruto (torturing and killing and taxiderming people for his own fun personal gain, never for a goal that served anyone but himself. how do you redeem having over 300 corpses in your backpack that you felt absolutely no remorse for killing). sasori was legit one of the only cruel villains that didnt had someone else pull the strings, which sends a clear message on kishi’s part, who absolutely loves to redeem villains LOL.

being that old, he obviously had already been very manifested in what he believed in, even if it was shakey, to the point where the first crack in that world view (sakura and chiyo protecting each other) immediately had him give up on his life all together. that, in my opinion, is not a man who’s going to know what healthy relationships would look like, regardless of it being romantic or not. 35 year old sasori to me has the same appeal as an expired can of tuna and he’s probably very happy 6 feet under. he’s supposed to be a failed gaara in that sense that he had no one to look out for him and therefore was never going to experience anything but a bad ending in life. its fine that hes dead honestly, it wraps up his short character development the best IMO.

adding to that, seriously, sakura was obviously interested in knowing why he was that way, and called him out for being seriously fucked in the head, but it’s weird to me that people assume she had any interest in actively rehabilitating him, let alone starting a serious romantic relationship with him. sakura who’s not only very, uhm, immature and straight forward when it comes to her romantic viewpoints also, as a big bootlicker, wouldnt soil her standing in the village by starting anything with a disgraced and far too gone criminal like sasori. shipping that version of sasori with sakura intimately is still going to set her up for a huge power imbalance that would be difficult to handle imo, even if she was the one in the fight ultimately exerting her power over him. i would still look at it and think damn she deserves better than having to play therapist for man like that lol.

additionally, even if you ignored all of this, you cant really ignore that sasori had already known her as a child, and that had been his first and most impactful impression of her. i dont think that sasori would look at 35 year old sakura and see her as a grown woman and not the little green girl she was in the fight. plus, you easily fall into predatory comparison territory between the “childish” and “womanly” and i have seen way too often in fic just being boiled down to her now being fuckable. a lot of of ships do this and i would just like to remind yall thats it not normal for adults to want to start relationships with children they have seen grown up or known as a child when they themselves were fully grown adults. therefore, maybe if sakura hadnt met sasori before it would be less of a problem? but that also obviously defeats the point of the dynamic and the reason he died in the first place. so yeah, it sounds kind of doomed especially if you were to make it romantic. 

WHICH BRINGS ME TO THE SECOND QUESTION

let me preface this that im not fundamentally against age gaps, even if im not super interested in it. after all, colorblind had a 5 yr age gap (with sakura being 21), even if, say, i wrote similar fics today i probably would make it smaller lol. i think it can be handled well if both parties have enough life experience to deal with it, and the author is cautious of where the age gap starts, i think a 10+ year age gap would be fine in a scenario where the younger party (i guess sakura) was at least 25-27ish, meaning she has completed most of her most formative life stages and probably had been in relationships before, meaning she would be able to handle it without having to fear a huge power imbalance. the older the younger party is the less the age gap is going to matter tbh .TsukiHoshino and AngelOfDeath10 both handle age gaps in their fics really well imo, so i do not mind reading about them.

unfortunately, a lot of people in this fandom think making sakura barely "”””legal””””” (18, not even 20 which is hilarious to me because the source material is obviously japanese) because they both cannot stand her being past her “prime years” of being young fertile and fuckable to much older men as well as thinking a 20 year old is automatically old enough to handle that type of relationship. ive seen a lot of unironic takes that believe it will absolve them of callout posts if they throw around age of consent and “shes 18 now suckers!!!” enough lmfao. absolutely hilarious. aging a minor up without aging the adult down seriously reeks of predatory “cant wait until youre 18″ narratives and thats why i find it similarly disturbing as straight up pedo shipping.

ultimately, sasosaku is and will always be a inherently problematic ship in canon, which is why i think it should always be handled a little more responsibly in fandom spaces, ignoring or outright excusing the main problem factor, which is sasori, isnt going to convince anyone that the dynamic in itself is well written and interesting enough to explore in aus, like giving sasori the redemption most of us wanted him to have by aging him down to a point in time where he was still realistically going to allow being positively influenced, similar to gaara. 

so really, what i think is well handled age gap and how most people handle age gap in the naruto fandom are two different worlds at times lol 

tl;dr

canon shippers have never been anything but gross when i was younger and i didnt wanna be like that, even if youre “smart”enough to differenate, actual creeps dont really care and might use your content to blur the lines, sasori isnt rly redeemable so romantic canonverse realistically wouldnt make much sense and is still iffy, age gaps are fine if they are handled well, but given that the dynamic doesnt really need the age gap to still work im not that invested on making that an essential part of my shipping experience.  

thank you for reading and hope this makes sense!

[not-a-space-alien]

hey its me again wall of text sorry not sorry

k i saw your little treatise justifying zadr and yknow its a cartoon its not the worst thing ever of course nobody is gonna sue you for reblogging fanart or burn you at the stake or w/e and im glad you decided to open yourself up to a differing opinion but zim IS portrayed as an adult. there was even an unfinished episode where zim’s childhood and growing up training from start to finish would be shown so by the time of the pilot he is definitely a full grown developed adult by irken standards especially if hes a former member of an elite military force like the invaders. jhonen has said that the irony and sad comedy of zims character is that hes a grown ass man and a war veteran to boot who VOLUNTARILY goes to an elementary school every day and throws hands with an 11 year old boy who should be well below his notice because he’s that pathetic and desperate for validation that he’ll stoop to seeking it from a child. it also sets up a dynamic between them where dib is CHALLENGED by having to go up against an adult with way more experience than him while dib is just a child, so when he wins its more meaningful, which is a common trope in childrens fiction that an underdog young hero has to take down a powerful adult villain.

jhonen might joke a lot but he’s serious about this part of the characterization of zim and dib and he even went to great lengths to make dib look and act more like a kid in ETF (more emotional and naive, designed to look smaller/softer, going in depth with his relationship to his dad and sister and needing his dad to protect him at the end when he’s too overrun to fight alone) just to drive home the point of how young he is. it was a very deliberate move and jhonen knows what hes doing ESPECIALLY since he also left zim pretty much unchanged and also includes gags about zim’s relative maturity like animating him briefly grimacing because his joints are sore and the part where he pretty much gestures to his crotch and goes “theyre afraid to look at ALL-A THIS”. like you would not see jhonen do that sort of joke with an underage character ok. dont confuse his social awkwardness and self deprecating/trolling humor for not knowing the difference between right and wrong and not acknowledge when he means something sincerely because he doesn’t just clown on people and troll ALL THE TIME 24/7 hes a human, and times have changed with more awareness on issues such as the grooming of minors so he can go back on things he may have said in the past that he doesn’t agree with now or said by mistake. he has said enough times that zim is older than any human alive that its safe to take his word for it by now. judging by the one strip he did in JTHM about johnny murdering a pedophile who was about to prey on squee i think his stance on protecting kids is pretty clear. also i wouldnt put it past jhonen to have redesigned membrane to be more chaddy looking to divert the adult fandom’s attention away from dib and throw the fangirls a bone but thats a whole nother can of worms lol.

and the justification that zim is immature so hes essentially on dib’s level is a reversal of something lots of kids hear from either creepy or ignorant adults who tell them theyre “so mature for their age”. no matter how emotionally mature you are it wont ever compensate for the number of years youve been alive so that’s not very sound logic, and even in fic where theyre both adults it’s still pretty weird because it doesn’t erase their history where zim knew dib as a kid. that’s sort of like a grownup waiting with bated breath until a kid is “legal” so they can start dating. kinda like when jacob imprints on bella’s newborn daughter in twilight then having it handwaved away by saying he’ll wait till she’s grown up, which understandably drew a huge amount of criticism. it’s a loophole that might be mildly acceptable in some cases but the context leaves it colored with a residual ickiness that sets off some red flags for me and a lot of other people.

also you said zim is an alien and therefore the situation itself is unrealistic, but the reason invader zim’s writing resonates with people is because zim is written with very HUMAN emotions and motivations and part of the humor again is how irkens despite being aliens from another planet mirror some of humanity’s worst flaws such as being petty, gluttonous, willfully ignorant, arrogantly believing they are special and better than everyone else, easily manipulated by propaganda, all too eager to greedily colonize other societies etc making them not so different from us at all. so the premise out of context might not seem realistic but the idea of a sad burnout adult who doesn’t realize how humiliating it is to be consistently outsmarted by a kid less than half their age IS realistic and applicable to human interaction since we’ve likely all met someone like this before at one point in our lives for example a schoolteacher who has a personal vendetta against one or more of their students and has nothing better to do than antagonize them, or a really dumb parent that you fight with a lot.

another thing, i know you and other fans probably have a lot of sentimental value and nostalgia attached to zadr because you probably shipped it back when you were a kid yourself and you cant be blamed for something you liked as a kid, but youre an adult now, and you have to listen to the portion of kids in the fandom who dont like zadr and say without question that the age gap makes them uncomfortable. those kids ARE the priority. we’re grown up now and we have to put our feelings aside for them because that’s part of being responsible and mature. i feel like zim himself is a pretty good example of how not to act at our age [shrug emoji]

and anyway a lot of the same elements of zadr can be explored with zadf just as well with just as much potential for cute moments and as a bonus is it’s not creepy

You do bring up some good points, and I’m not saying you’re wrong...  But honestly I’m still not convinced.  I mean, stuff that Jhonen said, the thing is even if it’s the author saying it it’s still outside of canon, that’s the reason why Neil Gaiman got flack for Good Omens because they didn’t write an actual kiss or hug or hand-hold between Aziraphale and Crowley yet Neil Gaiman went on Twitter saying they were queer representation.  I still don’t really put much stock into what he says because the unfinished episodes and Jhonen’s commentary don’t really change the dynamic that’s actually in the show.  And again...Jhonen said if there were going to be romance in the show it would be Zim/Gaz, so he’s either a huge hypocrite or doesn’t view Zim as being incompatible with Gaz.

I do think it’s much better when Dib is an adult and it just makes more sense, and I actually do prefer zadf to zadr and if i were going to ever write fanfiction or make fanart it would probably just be zadf, just because i know this does have some stuff to think about and I totally respect that you have a different view of it, but i honestly just don’t see it that way.  The analogy with Jacob imprinting on Bella’s child in Twilight isn’t really the same thing honestly.  The author in that situation tried to make it not......that....by saying that imprinting isn’t always a romantic relationship thing, and that Jacob would be more of an older brother, but honestly that doesn’t really negate the impact of grooming that kid would have with Jacob around.  The idea that Zim would somehow be grooming Dib seems really silly to me although you’re right, I think his characterization in Into the Florpus has evolved somewhat especially with regard to Dib wanting to get his father’s approval, but again Zim has parallels with that in trying to please the Tallest.  the world-building and characterizations are inconsistent and scattershot at best.  Like no, zim isn’t waiting for him to turn legal, that’s absurd, they’re nemeses coming at each other then learning to be friends.  You’re right that that doesn’t have to be zadr but I still tag it as zadr so people can block it if they want to.

Like, I’ve seen people ship Zim with Professor Membrane instead of Dib.  That seems very weird to me.  that professor membrane would have a relationship with someone who literally goes to his son’s elementary school and who doesn’t know anything at all about human behavior and emotions.

I feel like with this discussion people don’t really understand the problem with age gaps. With age gaps, it’s not a matter of mature/immature, it’s about development.  A ten year age gap sounds like a lot right?  a 25-year-old and a 15-year old would absolutely have a predatory “relationship.”  But a 35- and a 45-year old, that’s perfectly fine.  Having a difference in age doesn’t automatically make the relationship unhealthy.  so if Dib is 25 and Zim is [whatever the hell aliens years i still don’t really take Jhonen’s word for it bc he’s not consistent], that’s doesn’t mean it has to be bad.  The thing about telling minors they’re “so mature for their age” to try and convince them that a person interested in them isn’t a pedophile is that we know a human being who is 15 isn’t developmentally at the same level as a 25-year-old regardless of their behavior.  What is Zim?  All we have to go on is how he acts, and he acts like Dib is an equal match, it’s not “he’s immature for his age,” it’s very unclear.  Raw number of years isn’t the ultimate decider, for example in DnD lore elves reach maturity at, like, 100 years old so a 25-yo human trying to get with a 50-year-old elf would be predatory to the young elf even though the “younger” one is technically twice as old as the human.  Do you see what I’m saying?

I also don’t really buy the idea that Invader Zim’s writing resonates with people because Zim is ~~so human~~.  The guy steals a bunch of kid’s organs in one episode and flies into a tantrum over the slightest inconvenience.  You have to be reading really deeply into it and dig into some old internet archives of things Jhonen Vasquez has said to paint it as realistic.  You can do some interesting things with it wrt like, Zim being defective and starting to experience human emotions but that’s mostly fanon.

Well, you’ve given me some things to think about, thanks for explaining your side to me.  I’m still going to tag things as #zadr so people can block if it can’t plausibly be categorized as zadf.  I’m not actually making any fan content for Invader Zim so the point is kind of moot, but if I ever do I’ll definitely take this into consideration.

[devotedly-weird-blogger]

So alot of you will disagree with me on what im about to say and thats fine. I underatand not everyone will feel how i do on the matter due to the severity and evidence floating around.

And id like to preface this by saying that this isnt me giving him an excuse or saying what hes done is okay because obviously its not, people were hurt and are still hurting and he should be held responsible for his actions accordingly.

That being said lets delve in to this shotstorm of a topic and clear some things up. So as most everyone knows at this point the allegations against Ryan aka Cryaotic have been confirmed to a degree by himself and several of his 'victims'. The members of LNC have also confirmed bits and peices of the situation as thr information became available to them and its been confirmed by Snake that there are atlest 17 to 18 people who have come forward to him about their involvement as victims of Ryan.

With this information in tow id like to make a few points before hashing out the nitty gritty detIls in full. And before anyone comes for my neck over this just know that this is from the perspective of someone whose both seen and been a victim of this type of shit herself and also grown up in a family where age gaps are common place in most all relationships.

So for starters ive seen how grooming works hell ive béen a victim of it before but i got out of it early enough to not have sever lasting trauma from it. Whati personally feel is grooming and see as true malicious intent is not what ive seen so far with these allegations. Thats not to say it wasnt wrong because by all means on a moral level this is obviously disturbing. Coming from the perspective of someone who grew up knowing that an age gap of 4 to 6 years as common however makes this situation feel less like hes a pedophile or monster for whats taken place. I personally have had relationships with men older than me by 2 to 7 years even. When i was 15 i dated a guy who at the time was 18, which if you want to be technical about it, was illegal. Had anyone wanted to they couldve put him in jail for it due to my being only 15 at the time. But similar to the situation with Ryan, nothing sexual transpired till i was of age. My last relationship was with a man who was 27 while im only 21 which is a 6 year difference. But because im 21 its veiwed as normal. Look at your elders even. More often than not theres an age gap of atleast 3 years between couples. My grandmother is nearly 10 years younger than my grandfather even. Personally i feel like its okay as long as things dont become physical untill the younger party is of age. That in mind i still know that a 22 year old talking sexually with someone 16 or 17 is wrong morally and verges on illegal.

As for the allegations themselves and his victims. Know that the community hears you we support you and we wish the best for you all and that you get the closure you deserve and you dont owe us the full stories as those are your personal lives raveled in a very upsetting tale. I dont doubt that they were hurt or that they were truely victims, its clear that they were and deserve to see him held accountable just as any other accused of similar things.

As for Ryan himself. I am hurt and dissapointed by whats come out and as much as i want to join everyone on calling you a monster and saying i hate you, i dont. I see a man whose hurting others and himself in ways that are rather disturbing to hear and i hope you get the help you need and right your wrongs. The community should also realize that holding you accountable doesnt mean sending you hate and making remarks that you should off yourself or demand explinations. We arent the victims and we dont have the right to demand answers. We arent the ones who get to forgive him and we arent the ones who should be getting the apologies. I havent gotten all the details on the situation so obviously my veiw isnt going to be 100% accurate but even so i know that he owes us nothing and that the victims are the ones who get to make the demands.

From a legal stand point his silence is a smart move as he was only making this worse with his video and oroginal tweets on the matter. So be patient, if he releases a statement on the matter at some point then he does but if he never makes one then let it die with the community. We dont need to keep this alive by demanding he answer us especially when we could be hurting the victims more by keeping it in their faces what hes done.

I dont wish bad on anyone involved and only hope they all get the help they deserve and need in the process of this all. For those who dont know whats going on here are links to some of the videos and threads best explaining the situation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ChaoticMonki/comments/hef6zr/megathread_cryaotic_accusations/?utm_source=xpromo&utm_medium=amp&utm_name=amp_comment_iterations&utm_term=active&utm_content=post_body

https://youtu.be/B7LdXYjs_YE

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4rW7I7oephFlTfoZz0kAaaQEtaGTiLjD

Theres morr out there on this im sure and please do let me know if ive missed anything but on a personal note while i feel he needs to face the consequences of what hes done i dont think things are being handled well by the community. This couldve been much worse and the backlash has been rather extream. Obviously theres still things we dont know but as of right now im firm in my feelings that he deserves time to get help and explain himself even though its not going to change the past. And i hope the victims get their solace and justice for whats transpired.

[nessanightray]

meet the mun

Repost do not reblog !!

MOMnique tagged me but if she didn’t get everyone, feel free to steal this from me!

LAYER ONE: THE OUTSIDE - Name: alex! - Eye Color: brown aljdlkad - Hair Style/color: caramel brown thats slightly wavy and reaches the small of my back! when its hot, i always have it up in a loose ponytail. - Height: my government id says 5′3 lmao. all of my siblings are 5′9+ and they roast me for looking like a hobbit. - Clothing style: LOTS OF PINK..... t-shirts and basketball shorts when i want to be the most comfortable. lots of florals and my dirty pink nikes?? - Best physical feature: how very leo-esque of me to say my hair? its always so soft and frames my chubby face well

LAYER TWO: THE INSIDE - Your fears: abandonment, being hated, my security and safety compromised, men - Your guilty pleasure: this is a weird one but having my young python wrap around my throat and squeeze her lil muscles -- not enough to choke me out BUT--  - Ambitions for the future: get my RVT license, get away from my abusive family, move out of california, practice veterinary care at a zoo or wildlife facility

LAYER THREE: THOUGHTS - Your first thoughts waking up: “ better check my socials. ugh its so hot.” - What you think about before bed:  friends, scenarios for threads that i need to answer, shit INTENSE loneliness

LAYER FOUR: WHAT’S BETTER? - Single or group dates: group dates??? then i dont feel so scared lol -To be loved or respected: both but respect above all. - Beauty or brains: GOTTA NOT BE STUPID.... but i find beauty in a lot of unconventional things so i think beauty is subjective. - Dogs or cats: i’m much more of a dog person even though i personally own a cat and a snake --- when i move out of my stepdads house, i want to get a dog so i can have a friend

LAYER FIVE: DO YOU. - Lie: obviously i have. i grew up having to be a compulsive liar to survive as long as i did, and when it unfortunately stuck with me until i got the sense beaten into me, i developed a specific need for the truth. i’m human and i slip-up but i’m really critical of myself and what comes out of my mouth. - Believe in yourself: HUUUH NO?? this bitch is dumb - Believe in love: yeah. - Want someone: I.... really.... don’t?? i’m fine being single and i’m really actually scared of people and my social circle is too small and i’m really ABOUT my space and freedom.

LAYER SIX: EVER? - Been on stage: i did improv in high school but other than that, no - Done drugs: SMOKE WEED ERRYDAY - Changed who you were to fit in: DEFINITELY A LOT WHEN I WAS YOUNGER. but now im so bullheaded about NOT breaking myself down into bite-sized pieces for others. im all here binch

LAYER SEVEN: FAVORITES - Favorite color: pink!  - Favorite animal: goats, lions - Favorite movie: uh lets see if i can name some-- the love witch, the favourite, pan’s labyrinth-- - Favorite game: any pokemon game tbh, borderlands, red dead redemption

LAYER EIGHT: AGE - Day your next birthday will be: on a wednesday HUMP DAAAY. - How old will you be: taylor swift voice: 22 - Does age matter: BITCH YES IT DOES....... that’s a phrase said often to minors by grooming pedophiles and even if two people are both adults, if there’s a severe maturity gap, there’s a problem. like my 22 year-old sister dating a 30 year old man is a perfect example because he was using her as a trophy. im not about that son i will personally beat your ass if you try to date outside of your age range.