#the Ratliffs

[listenmyguy]

I need a whole spin-off show of what happens when the Ratliffs get back to America.

[lochlogie]

Since Saxon is a beefy boy (he has to be at least 200lbs) and is generally pretty health obsessed, what if Tim did go through with his plan to poison everyone, but the dosage wasn't quite enough to kill Saxon?

He wakes up in the hospital, feeling like shit (like he did after the full moon party 🌝), confused, grieving his parents and sister, reeling from survivor's guilt. He also has to deal with the fallout of Tim's crimes all by himself, oh and who could forget? He has to let Lochlan move in with him now. And he definitely drives himself crazy wondering why Tim tried to kill him and not Lochlan, and the unresolved tension and drama between these two is going to fester under his skin, especially as he has to stop being big brother and start being dad.

And Lochlan is going to be more codependent than ever. Because how do you cope with knowing you were intended to live all alone in the world? How do you live knowing your dad wanted to do that to you? How do you process finding most of your family dead and rushing to save Saxon, not knowing if this was just cruel false hope and he wouldn't pull through? Lochlan's Pleasing Instincts are going to go haywire, because Saxon is not only taking care of him, but being his only source of connection, validation, and comfort as he spirals about this.

Oh the delicious angst we could wring out of this!

[weirdero]

I’ve seen a lot of people online saying that Piper is either going to be Quinn 2.0 from Season 1 or Olivia 2.0, and honestly, I get it. I understand where those assumptions are coming from and it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world especially if she ended up as another Quinn. She seems like a nice girl stuck in a fucked up family. But my god that would just be so boringgggg. We’re only on Season 3 it’s way too early for the show to start recycling character archetypes. I also think with the added dynamic of her brothers she’ll be her own evil freaky bitch yk. Anyways the siblings got me fucked up.

Her brothers are themselves. Saxon is the most outrageous out of three I don't think he's ever been proper humbled in his life and has a very very very disgusting black and white outlook on the world.

He's like those men who believe life revolves around sex and sex is just a game. The type of man that excuses his abhorrent terrible behavior on his “natural human instinct”.

Lochlan is definitely chiller, but still a freak. He seems to crave attention from both of his siblings in a very odd way. He enjoys Saxon’s “life advice” and gossip. I think he’s very aware of his brother’s unhinged nature and recognizes that it’s ridiculous but I genuinely don’t believe he sees it as anything more than that. He’s the kind of guy that just brushes Saxon’s behavior off because “he’s just a silly guy,” YK?

And with Piper, I think he definitely knows she’s the more normal one compared to Saxon. Even though we haven’t seen them interact much yet I think they’re able to have more honest conversations with each other. He tells her that he attempted to pray and even though he didn’t really feel any sort of divine intervention or anything he still chooses to share this with Piper.

He also gives off gossipy vibes. When Saxon tells him he thinks piper has never had sex before he decided to tell piper about it but not in a concerning “our brother is a freak” way but in a playful way, kinda like it’s just some casual chitchat, rather than something deeply weird. Like I mentioned earlier he also excuses his brother behavior by down playing it and explaining the original context of the statement as a “compliment”????

And after piper is clearly disturbed and uncomfortable with this conversation he decides to double down and ask her if she had had sex before.

This gossipy nature comes out during their lunch scene with that whole Kate and Victoria interaction. I already talked about how I interpreted both Kate’s and Victorias feelings in this scene and why the both specifically acted that way in this post but the way Lochlan acts is also very telling of who he is he's the only person at that table to question his mothers odd behavior telling her straight up was was kinda rude. But just like with Saxon I don't he actually cares or takes an issue with how his mom handled that interaction he's not actively trying to call her out but more curious than anything. Get kinda messy with it. YK? Anyways like I said he doesn’t actually care about how she acted based off how he reacts to her prostitution joke laughing along with Saxon and his father. Actually scratch that he looks at Saxon first to check if HES LAUGHING. also he was 100% ready to watch his brother jack off. Weirdo!

Then there’s piper. Like fucking pipe. She does seem to be the most sane out of all of them in the instances that I brought up she’s like literally the only person with an appropriate response. but I still can't properly pin point her. I want to believe she's sane and normal I really do and hell she might be and I might just be too fucking suspicious but there is just something about her. When lochlan tells her about saxsons comment about her sex life her first reaction to me seems defensive. Not even a "why would he say that" type of reaction which she settles for later but a "he doesn't know what I do".

And again, I might be reading into things, but it just feels so specific. I’ve been watching this season with my friends one of them specifically loves Piper’s character and another thinks she’s just a performative white girl Olivia 2.0 But neither of them think she’s a freak.

In defense of my friend who thinks she’s just another privileged white girl she did point out another moment during the family’s lunch conversation

She tells her dad that she didn’t choose this hotel and that it’s not her vibe and its like “Disneyland for rich bohemians from Malibu and their Lululemon leggings”

Then later she’s seen in yoga in what honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if they were Lululemon leggings.

Anyway, it’s almost 8pm where I am now and I need this new episode to drop now.

[saxlochapologist]

the way Saxon is genuinely very disgusted and upset about what happened between him and Lochlan becomes so much sadder when you remember they're from a family who has kept them extremely isolated and alienated from regular everyday life experiences. and it's not just the typical insularity of the ultra-wealthy either, I think there's a very sinister insider vs. outsider dichotomy at play for them that has been enforced primarily by Victoria, but with Tim being complicit in it as well. We see Victoria CONSTANTLY telling her children to remember who they are, where they come from, sowing seeds of doubt into the fabric of every conversation they have with people outside of their immediate family, praising their genetics and appearances, basically grooming them to feel superior to everyone they come into contact with. I truly think Sax and Lochy have both been told from day 1 that ending up like Sax is kinda the ideal - the family is constantly giving Lochy a hard time for his posture and for not being a gym rat like Saxon, Victoria laughs at all the jokes Saxon makes at Lochy and Piper's expense, erc. So not only is Sax being imbued with a kind of god complex from his status as the Ratliff's 1st born son, he also ends up feeling like it is his responsibility alone, as the only older male sibling, to kind of mold Lochlan into the type of man who's been led to believe is worthy of the ridiculously wealthy and privileged existence his parents have given them. and it's not only coming from a fetishization of wealth and power but also of being a member of their family specifically which makes all of this feel even heavier.

And with this context I think Sax definitely feels like he failed Lochlan in some way with what happened at the full moon party. Not only is he angry with Lochlan, he's insanely and overwhelmingly angry with himself - for not stepping in to make sure Lochlan was following the right script, for not ever saying no, and most of all for actively enjoying it. I mean the look on his face is literally pure bliss when Lochlan's hand is working him underneath the sheets and I don't think he can fully repress that feeling. Sax is supposed to be his older brother, showing him how to be an adult. how to be a Ratliff. how live up to their parents' expectations of them. and instead here he is moaning like a girl while his younger brother rubs him. I think all those years alone with him and Piper and their parents are going to start to feel sickening now. like maybe he isn't this gift from God put on earth to make money, fuck hot girls, and be what his parents want him to be bc he can't lust after his brother and still meet those expectations. Idk. Saxon as a character just goes crazy, I can't stop thinking about him!!

[skeletonsweatpants]

Seeing Lucius Malfoy’s dick was not on my bingo card for this week.

[corrodedaphroditus]

So funny to me that people portray Lochlan as either A) 4d chess playing evil mastermind faggot, or B) Poor baby sweetie who’s a little fucked in the head, with very little in between

[ravstheworlddotcom]

If we get a spinoff show on the post-Thailand riches to rags story of the Ratliffs just so we can get more iconic lines from Victoria, I'll forgive all of the plotholes in "The White Lotus" season 3.

[patashnick]

I didn’t see this coming… but of all the things in this episode that made me cry, And there wore a lot!, this scene was the best. Sooo good 🥹🥹🥹

That’s funny, ‘cause if I’m being honest, all week, I’ve just been so sad. I just feel like my expectations were too high, or… I just feel like, as you get older, you have to justify your life, you know? And your choices. And… when I’m with you guys, it’s just so, like… like, transparent what my choices were, and my mistakes. I have no belief system. And I… Well, I mean, I’ve had a lot of them, but… I mean, work was my religion for forever, but I definitely lost my belief there. And then — And then I tried love, and that was just a painful religion, just made everything worse. And then, even for me, just, like, being a mother, that didn’t save me either. 

THE WHITE LOTUS 3.08 | Amor Fati

[gaybuckybarnesss]

THE WHITE LOTUS 3.06 "Denials"

[lochlogie]

The way Saxon wants Lochlan to be like him is the exact same framework of the relationship Tim has with Saxon: your only goal in life should be to become me, but you better fail.

Tim has a very condescending relationship with Saxon. We really only get two scenes highlighting this, but the first is his conversation with Saxon after his tantrum. He flat out lies to him and says he's impressed by Saxon's career thus far. Saxon knows that he doesn't have a lot going for him at work, and expresses frustration that he's not being trusted with more responsibility. Then at the party, Tim just keeps deflecting Saxon's accusations and ignores his heartfelt confession that all he'll ever be is Timothy Ratliff's son, and that he's okay with that. Because that's what Saxon has been ordained to do, follow in Tim's footsteps, but never overtake him.

Saxon takes this relationship and pays it forward to Lochlan. Except Lochlan is a high schooler, he has no career (and seemingly no ambitions in terms of a future career), so Saxon takes the only thing he is quote unquote good at, and constructs the same framework of a relationship. He's good at sex (allegedly). Therefore, Lochlan should want to be him, follow him, learn from him, mold himself into him, but he better not succeed. That defeats the entire purpose of this narcissistic... I don't even know what to call it. I also think it's telling that Saxon is much more involved and intense about it than Tim is with him.

Tim seems a little aloof with all of his children (Piper the least), and maybe Saxon is so much more forward because he wants to feel like the Man, the Alpha, the Big Dog. He doesn't get affirmation or respect from his dad so he turns the dial hard trying to farm these feelings from his little brother. If his self worth can't come from making his dad proud it sure will come from having his little brother worship him. And a cornerstone of that is that Lochlan can't actually succeed. He can't learn from Saxon and then score chicks (heavens forbid start pulling more girls than Saxon). That defeats the whole point.

So Saxon is constantly putting Lochlan down, making snide little comments, seemingly sabotaging his efforts, making Lochlan look young and inexperienced and awkward and cute in front of the women he is supposedly trying to get his brother to fuck. Lochlan can only ever be the student, always in need of more advice or assistance, shadowing Saxon, watching and learning. Maybe by being Saxon's wingman, his adorkable baby brother who makes Saxon look more tolerable to women? Lending a helping hand? No not like that Lochlan!

I think Victoria's relationship with Piper is somewhat similar. But it's different because they're women. What does Victoria value most in life? Comfort, beauty, status, wealth. Piper's only goal in Victoria's eyes is to not embarrass the family, find a husband, and start her own family. And the thing is, Piper is already younger than Victoria, she's already succeeded at besting Victoria at her own game. So I think that's why Victoria has a much more fraught relationship with her daughter. If her narcissism demands Piper become her but fail... but Piper can't fail because she'll always be younger and prettier than Victoria is... I can see that resentment clouding every aspect of their interactions. Piper can't be Victoria's doe eyed apprentice or lackey like Lochlan is to Saxon as Saxon is to Tim.

Even when Piper wants to do something pretty harmless like take her eat pray love gap year in Thailand, which would not harm her "prospects," at all, certainly not more than Tim's crimes and humiliation, Victoria is adamant that Piper is throwing her life away. I can easily imagine that Piper has spent her whole life having every decision scrutinized by Victoria. She's been nitpicked clean, and she can't take it anymore. That's why she's daddy's girl, and it's also why mama's boy Saxon takes up the charge and bullies Piper on their mom's behalf.

Which brings me to Victoria's relationship to Saxon: if Piper will always be a younger version of her, and she resents that... Saxon will always be a younger version of Tim. But also a combination of Tim and her, their first born, the boy that made her a mother. Of course he's the apple of her eye. And there's no doubt in my mind her life plan includes Saxon taking care of her if Tim should ever pass. And isn't Tim about to lose everything for them and probably go to jail (if only for a few months)? She's probably been adultifying and toying with emotional incest with Saxon for a long time.

Same thing with Tim and Piper, but the inverse obviously. Piper is not a threat to Tim's grandiose master of the universe narcissistic persona. She's daddy's girl, she is a precious object that Tim is meant to cherish and then give away to a man who impresses him (a man he will undoubtedly expect to be similar to himself). He kind of has a soft spot for Piper, but he's very comfortable pretending that he's getting rid of their phones for her sake, and the way she lights up at that... ouch.

Meaning neither parent really ever gave a fuck about Lochlan. The heir (Saxon) has a spare, and he's a boy, so he's not a resource to be traded to another rich family for more status. He can't do anything for them so they're content to just focus on the most "egregious" ways he embarrasses the family name, namely posture.

The Ratliff family structure is built by bricks and mortar of pure narcissism. Narcissistic parents pitting their children against each other, demanding their loyalty and emulation, but unable to cope with the idea that their children could ever surpass them (you know, like normal parents would be thrilled about). Those children in turn recreate a similar dynamic with the youngest, who they almost treat more like their pet than anything else.

[lochlogie]

Exhibit C: he does this shit to Piper too 😭

Sam Nivola in The White Lotus

3.05 "Full-Moon Party" / 3.08 "Amor Fati"

[389]

Speed Ratliff as the Boom Operator for SAW (2004)

[queenoftheimps]

Another day, another White Lotus episode, another insane sex monologue.

[modernaged]

i feel kinda bad for piper ratliff it can be really devastating to realize you have no principles and are exactly like your mother

[lochlogie]

The way Lochlan could sell books about how messy his family is and be a kept boy, he’ll be absolutely fine 😅

Sam’s new photoshoot for VMan and wow…these are incredibly devastating pictures.

I think Lochy will be just fine back home if he gets into modeling. AU anyone? 😂

[sweetaspiesammy]

dad praying to god for help. mom still can’t find her drugs. daughter is a buddhist now. sons making out. I love this christian family 🙏