#thinking about valar's oath change---

[wardingprotector]

redemption oath paladins get counterspell and that is Very Sexy of them---

[polutrope]

The Third Kinslaying

A Silmarillion question that never ceases to trouble me, and for which I am not sure I will ever come up with an answer that satisfies me: What were Maedhros and Maglor’s justifications for taking Elrond and Elros after the sack of Sirion? 

I know many people are satisfied with emotion-based reasoning, but that alone just doesn’t work for me personally. I read Maedhros and Maglor at this point in the narrative as very tormented, yes, but still capable of weighing logic and emotion at the same time. I also don't think the tone of the text supports outright villainy and ruthlessness (though that's a valid hc, especially from a non-Feanorian pov).

I’m not going to dive into my interpretation (I’m writing a fic for that), but I wanted to share the evidence and highlight what I think is the (Doylist) explanation for why the question is such a tough one to crack: None of Tolkien’s drafts covering this event* took the character of Gil-galad (or Círdan, though he was a character and not ret con'd like G-g) into consideration. He was simply not a factor in any of the versions published in HoMe. 

If you’re like me and love the ‘textual archaeology’ of figuring out how the published text was derived (and since I bothered to type them all up) here are all the drafts of the third kinslaying alongside the published Silm. (There's good stuff in here for enjoyers of Elwing, Maedhros, and Maglor, too -- and haters of Amrod and Amras lol.)

*unless there are unpublished notes or notes that have evaded me somewhere

Book of Lost Tales (late 1910s/early 1920s)

In BoLT, the Havens are sacked by Melko. 

Sketch of the Mythology (1926-30)

The sons of Fëanor learning of the dwelling of Elwing and the Nauglafring [=Nauglamir] had come down on the people of Gondolin. In a battle all the sons of Fëanor save Maidros [footnote: > Maidros and Maglor] were slain, but the last folk of Gondolin destroyed or forced to go away and join the people of Maidros [footnote: Written in the margin: Maglor sat and sang by the sea in repentance]. Elwing cast the Nauglafring into the sea and leapt after it [footnote: My father first wrote Elwing cast herself into the sea with the Nauglafring, but changed it to Elwing cast the Nauglafring into the sea and leapt after it in the act of writing], but was changed into a white sea-bird by Ylmir [=Ulmo], and flew to seek Eärendel, seeking about the shores of the world. Their son (Elrond) who is half-mortal and half-elfin [footnote: This sentence was changed to read: Their son (Elrond) who is part mortal and part elfin and part of the race of the Valar], a child, was saved however by Maidros.”

The Quenta Noldorinwa (1930)

I

The dwelling of Elwing at Sirion’s mouth, where still she possessed the Nauglafring and the glorious SIlmaril, became known to the sons of Fëanor; and they gathered together from their wandering hunting-paths. But the folk of Sirion would not yield that jewel which Beren had won and Lúthien had worn, and for which fair Dior had been slain. And so befell the last and cruellest slaying of Elf by Elf, the third woe achieved by the accursed oath; for the sons of Fëanor came down upon the exiles of Gondolin and the remnant of Doriath, and though some of their folk stood aside and some few rebelled and were slain upon the other part aiding Elwing against their own lords, yet they won the day. Damrod [=Amrod] was slain and Díriel [=Amras], and Maidros and Maglor alone now remained of the Seven; but the last of the folk of Gondolin were destroyed or forced to depart and join them to the people of Maidros. And yet the sons of Fëanor gained not the Silmaril; for Elwing cast the Nauglafring into the sea, whence it shall not return until the End; and she leapt herself into the waves, and took the form of a white sea-bird, and flew away lamenting and seeking for Eärendel about all the shores of the world. But Maidros took pity upon her child Elrond, and took him with him, and harboured and nurtured him, for his heart was sick and weary with the burden of the dreadful oath.”

II

Upon the havens of Sirion new woe had fallen. The dwelling of Elwing there, where still she possessed the Nauglafring [footnote: > Nauglamir at both occurrences] and the glorious SIlmaril, became known to the remaining sons of Fëanor, Maidros and Maglor and Damrod and Díriel; and the gathered from their wandering hunting-paths, and messages of friendship and yet stern demand they sent unto Sirion. But Elwing and the folk of Sirion would not yield that jewel which Beren had won and Lúthien had worn, and for which Dior the Fair was slain; and least of all while Eärendel their lord was in the sea, for them seemed that in that jewel lay the gift of bliss and healing that had come upon their houses and their ships. And so came in the end to pass the last and cruellest of the slayings of Elf by Elf; and that was the third of the great wrongs achieved by the accursed oath. For the sons of Fëanor came down upon the exiles of Gondolin and the remnant of Doriath and destroyed them. Though some of their folk stood aside, and some few rebelled and were slain upon the other part aiding Elwing against their own lords (for such was the sorrow and confusion in the hearts of Elfinesse in those days), yet Maidros and Maglor won the day. Alone they now remained of the sons of Fëanor, for in that battle Damrod and Díriel were slain; but the folk of Sirion perished of fled away, or departed of need to join the people of Maidros, who claimed now the lordship of all the Elves of the Outer Lands. And yet Maidros gained not the Silmaril, for Elwing seeing that all was lost and her child Elrond [footnote: > her children Elros and Elrond] taken captive, eluded the host of Maidros, and with the Nauglafring upon her breast she cast herself into the sea, and perished as folk thought. [...] But great was the sorrow of Eärendel and Elwing for the ruin of the havens of Sirion, and the captivity of their sons, for whom they feared death, and yet it was not so. For Maidros took pity upon Elrond, and he cherished him, and love grew after between them, as little might be thought; but Maidros’ heart was sick and weary [footnote: This passage was rewritten thus: But great was the sorrow of Eärendel and Elwing for the ruin of the havens of Sirion, and the captivity of their sons; and they feared that they would be slain. But it was not so. For Maglor took pity upon Elros and Elrond, and he cherished them, and love grew after between them, as little might be thought; but Maglor’s heart was sick and weary &c.] with the burden of the dreadful oath.

Earliest Annals of Beleriand (AB 1) (1930-37, prior to AB 2)

AB I

225 Torment of Maidros and his brothers because of their oath. Damrod and Díriel resolve to win the Silmaril if Eärendel will not yield it up. [...] The folk of Sirion refused to give up the Silmaril in Eärendel’s absence, and they thought their joy and prosperity came of it. 229 Here Damrod and Díriel ravaged Sirion, and were slain. Maidros and Maglor gave reluctant aid. Sirion’s folk were slain or taken into the company of Maidros. Elrond was taken to nurture by Maglor. Elwing cast herself into the sea, but by Ulmo’s aid in the shape of a bird flew to Eärendel and found him returning.

AB II does not go this far.

The Later Annals of Beleriand (AB 2) (1930-37, after AB 1)

325 [525] Torment fell upon Maidros and his brethren, because of their unfulfilled oath. Damrod and Díriel resolved to win the Silmaril, if Eärendel would not give it up willingly. [...] The folk of Sirion refused to surrender the Silmaril, both because Eärendel was not there, and because they thought their bliss and prosperity came from the possession of the gem. 329 [529] Here Damrod and Díriel ravaged Sirion, and were slain. Maidros and Maglor were there, but they were sick at heart. This was the third kinslaying. The folk of Sirion were taken into the people of Maidros, such as yet remained; and Elrond was taken to nurture by Maglor. But Elwing cast herself with the Silmaril into the sea, and Ulmo bore her up, and in the shape of a bird she flew seeking Eärendel, and found him returning. 

Quenta Silmarillion (1937) and The Later Quenta Silmarillion (1950s). These drafts were left incomplete and do not cover the events of the third kinslaying.

The Tale of Years (1950s)

Texts A, B

529 Third and Last Kin-slaying

Text C

532 [> 534 > 538] The Third and Last Kinslaying. The Havens of Sirion destroyed and Elros and Elrond sons of Eärendel taken captive, but are fostered with care by Maidros. 

Text D2 (ends at 527)

512 Sons of Fëanor learn of the uprising of the New Havens, and that the Silmaril is there, but Maidros forswears his oath.  [...] 527 Torment fell upon Maidros and his brethren (Maglor, Damrod and Díriel) because of their unfulfilled oath. 

Letter 211 (1958)

Elrond, Elros. *rondō was a prim[itive] Elvish word for 'cavern'. Cf. Nargothrond (fortified cavern by the R. Narog), Aglarond, etc. *rossē meant 'dew, spray (of fall or fountain)'. Elrond and Elros, children of Eärendil (sea-lover) and Elwing (Elf-foam), were so called, because they were carried off by the sons of Fëanor, in the last act of the feud between the high-elven houses of the Noldorin princes concerning the Silmarils; the Silmaril rescued from Morgoth by Beren and Lúthien, and given to King Thingol Lúthien's father, had descended to Elwing dtr. of Dior, son of Lúthien. The infants were not slain, but left like 'babes in the wood', in a cave with a fall of water over the entrance. There they were found: Elrond within the cave, and Elros dabbling in the water. 

The Silmarillion

Now when first the tidings came to Maedhros that Elwing yet lived, and dwelt in possession of the Silmaril by the mouths of Sirion, he repenting of the deeds in Doriath withheld his hand. But in time the knowledge of their oath unfulfilled returned to torment him and his brothers, and gathering from their wandering hunting-paths they sent messages to the Havens of friendship and yet of stern demand. Then Elwing and the people of Sirion would not yield the jewel which Beren had won and Luthien had worn, and for which Dior the fair was slain; and least of all while Earendil their lord was on the sea, for it seemed to them that in the Silmaril lay the healing and the blessing that had come upon their houses and their ships. And so there came to pass the last and cruellest of the slayings of Elf by Elf; and that was the third of the great wrongs achieved by the accursed oath.  For the sons of Feanor that yet lived came down suddenly upon the exiles of Gondolin and the remnant of Doriath, and destroyed them. In that battle some of their people stood aside, and some few rebelled and were slain upon the other part aiding Elwing against their own lords (for such was the sorrow and confusion in the hearts of the Eldar in those days); but Maedhros and Maglor won the day, though they alone remained thereafter of the sons of Feanor, for both Amrod and Amras were slain. Too late the ships of Cirdan and Gil-galad the High King came hasting to the aid of the Elves of Sirion; and Elwing was gone, and her sons. Then such few of that people as did not perish in the assault joined themselves to Gil-galad, and went with him to Balar; and they told that Elros and Elrond were taken captive, but Elwing with the Silmaril upon her breast had cast herself into the sea.  Thus Maedhros and Maglor gained not the jewel; but it was not lost. For Ulmo bore up Elwing out of the waves, and he gave her the likeness of a great white bird, and upon her breast there shone as a star the Silmaril, as she flew over the water to seek Earendil her beloved. [...] Great was the sorrow of Earendil and Elwing for the ruin of the havens of Sirion, and the captivity of their sons, and they feared that they would be slain; but it was not so. For Maglor took pity upon Elros and Elrond, and he cherished them, and love grew after between them, as little might be thought; but Maglor’s heart was sick and weary with the burden of the dreadful oath. 

[ettelenethelien]

The thing about the Valar paroling Morgoth is that it's easier to judge in hindsight.

Basically, the reader always knows their trust will be betrayed. Even if you don't know the Silm yet, heck, even if you don't know LotR, you're familiar with the Dark Lord archetype and this right here is Tolkien creating it. This is how Palpatine, this is how Voldemort, this is how Sauron Expy №14 would have acted.

And furthermore, I don't know if it's that obvious to everyone, but to someone familiar with Christian beliefs, it's very visible from the start that Morgoth pretty much represents the devil. Yeah, it's Tolkien, it's never 1:1 - but it's as close to 1:1 as it gets in the Legendarium, and it's pretty darn close. Of course the devil is a liar, that's pretty much in the definition, you don't trust him, how well did you think that could end?

And even if one was to be somehow unfamiliar with both Christianity and three fourths of pop-culture, it's a story, and I think the rules of story in the majority of cultures imply that if someone's been evil without any redeeming qualities for three chapters straight, they're not going to suddenly change allegiance in the fourth. (Also, let's not kid ourselves, we're straight up told he feigned it.)

That said - from the perspective of the Valar? We like to talk - or at least I like to talk - about how many of the mistakes that the Noldor (and the Fëanorians in particular) make are much more understandable in the light of them living at the very beginning of history. Fëanor doesn't know any better than to leave half his army behind, because he really cannot know any better. It's a moral betrayal, sure, yet as a tactical blunder it feels foolish, but can be explained. (And of course, despite ample historical evidence to the contrary, even we, every time there's a war, believe we'll be home by Christmas). They don't have any historical examples of overcharging leading to failure, they don't have any cautionary stories about rash oaths; they're only going to become one for future generations. And the Valar pardoning Morgoth is even farther back.

This is the first instance of treachery within the count of time! Heck, I doubt the Valar even know one of their number can lie at this point! Maybe they understand the concept as something Elvish children do before they know any better; maybe not even that. This is Paradise, and treason intruding into Paradise, and they cannot see into his heart, and he's always been very open about his goals before.

Does the situation scream "this is going to end very, very badly", even without the additional in-text explanations of Morgoth's purposes? Very much so. But is there an easy explanation that does not assume incompetence on the part of the Valar? Also yes.

[corsairspade]

Sitting here thinking about Celegorm being Oromë’s favourite and what the means beyond being gifted a hound by the Valar of the hunt himself.

Imagine, if you will, pre-darkening Celegorm who always wins dice games, who never draws the short straw, and when it comes to bets, always seems to come out on top— to the point where Celegorm is the person who always holds the pot when it comes to bets, because he always wins otherwise.

Imagine now, in Beleriand, this habit not changing. “Tell Tyelko I’m putting 20 on Fingon’s seneschal proposing to that girl of his in four years”, “Tell Celegorm that I despise him and never want to see him again— and also that I’m doubling down on my bet on the outcome of Caranthir meeting a Man for the first time.”

Imagine, oath ridden, downward spiralling Celegorm jokingly agreeing to roll dice to bet on something minor— guard shifts, or who has to tell Curufin that another sword has been broken—

And losing the bet. 

Celegorm who always is lucky, who always holds the pot… doesn’t know when he lost that favour. 

Imagine a Celegorm slowly losing the boons bestowed upon him by a Valar who he dedicated himself to, who taught him to speak the language of birds and beasts and gave him his craft.

Imagine a Celegorm who watches Huan leave and thinks it an inevitability, because he has been losing losing parts of himself, ever since he stepped off the shores of Valinor.

Celegorm who leaves behind a collection of bows and pelts and one hand-bound, weathered book, filled with the bets that are never going to be fulfilled.

[thebitchkingofangmar]

One reading of Fëanor that I haven't encountered yet but has recently become integral to my interpretation of the character and of the Fëanorian Oath (tho I'm sure I'm bound to find it somewhere if I do better research of academic databases and the Tumblr search system wasn't bullshit) is that Fëanor shouldn't have made the Silmarils in the first place.

One of the reasons I love this idea so much is that we know Fëanor does not care about should do, he cares about what he can do. "Enough" is a limitation, how far he goes, how excellent his craft is is not determined by notions like this. He would've made them anyway, even if Eru himself had told him not to.

I became of this idea when I was reading a series of theology essays about prophets in Jewish religiosity and history, as well as the Man-God relationship by Abraham Joshua Heschel. One of the essays is an address he made during the Civil Rights movement, in defence of it as an accomplice of racial liberation, and in it, while talking about racism and using religion to justify racism in an affront to God, he defines an Idol as "any god who is mine but not yours, any god concerned with me but not you, is an idol."

Aside from its context, it made me think of how the Fëanorian Oath changes the narrative around the Silmarils. We know they're sacred objects; so sacred Varda herself protected them. In this line, most of the reads/takes/interpretations about Fëanor and the Oath I have encountered revolve around either (a) him being justified in his pursue of what had been stolen from him because they're sacred objects; (b) interpretations about Fëanor's downfall rooted in his pride and direct Catholic/Christian interpretations of Genesis.

Starting with the latter, I've never liked those interpretations not because Tolkien's religiosity did not affect his world building, but because imo they are less concerned with the story in itself and the narrative relationships between themes, characters, actions and environment, and more with making Tolkien stories into fables, as if he was writing the moral reimagining of Paradise Lost. Man's a lot of things but he is a novelist through and through. He's not writing a fable.

Another reason I don't like them is because they forgo simpler, much more tangible interpretations between Tolkien characters and what is Holy, Sacred or Godly in the Legendarium, but also with religion in general: that not bringing harm onto others, because you recognise life in others as a manifestation of what is Holy, isn't about the great moral deeds of misdeeds of the Reprehensible and the Punishable but in the neutral. In the small things. In the not holding yourself as the only measure of the world and being curious enough to be open to others. You don't need to be Great to do this. This isn't about the Great Kings and Great Elves and the Names Which Go Down In History, but the everyday people, concerned with every day things, which is a huge theme in Tolkien.

This is when the Silmarils become idols, this is why he shouldn't have created them even if I know and love that he would've done it anyway. Because even as Varda put her hands on them to protect them, Fëanor is not the owner of the light of the trees. Who is Fëanor to command who gets access to the light of the trees and who doesn't? Who is Fëanor to decide who is worthy of their light and who is not? That is not his prerogative, and never will be. The Oath confirms the opposite, whoever: that the light is his and of whom he decides are worthy, and before the Oath, his resentment against other elves and the Valar about them being taken too.

Which takes me to the the other interpretation. He's justified to go after them because they're religious, sacred objects. And I agree! They are. And they're also still idols. The Fëanorian Oath still turns the light of the trees into something of only some are worthy, concerned with Fëanor and his descendents and no one else. Because if it were for the sake of the holy value of the Trees themselves, why act against other elves? Why make your children swear to take them from, by any means, from even the Valar and Eru himself? He was like this even before Melkor got in the picture.

If Fëanor had kept the secret, like Aulë when he created the dwarves, and Eru had confronted him about it, do you think he would've given them away? I don't think he would've. And even if they weren't sacred, Fëanor still had no special right over the light of the trees, or do great corporations, political tyrants or the like own the sun? Should they own water, the housing markets, food, healthcare, education, and all of the things people need to live?

This is why he shouldn't have created them in the first place. Because even if the elves did not revolve so heavily around God (which is a thing for another time) light isn't his to own. Light does not need to sacred or hold religious significance for it not to be his to own. I assure you that if, in real life, someone began trying to charge us for being under the sun (and honestly some corporations and political decisions already kind of try) we'd be rightfully pissed.

If I was an elf and Fëanor told me I couldn't partake in the light of the Trees because he was better than me, and because he was the only one who could even do a feat like preserving it, I would tell him to fuck off and to realise that if he hasn't noticed, the fruits of the Trees give light for free, what is he gonna do? Build an enclosure around them? lol, lmao even.

[thevalleyisjolly]

I think part of what troubles me about the opinion that Maglor and Maedhros were the “best” people to raise Elrond and Elros is that many (though not all) such interpretations often refer to fanon interpretations as if they were canon.  Which there’s nothing wrong with enjoying fanon!  But when popular fanon starts being treated as a definitive canon and subsequently starts being used as a lens for textual interpretation and engagement (and in some extreme cases, an excuse for bashing other characters), that’s when it gets a little eyebrow-raising. 

So in this post, I’m going to examine some of the more common fanon beliefs and headcanons around Maglor and Maedhros as parental figures/guardians to Elros and Elrond.  The point is not to debunk them and say that you cannot interpret the texts this way or enjoy them as a fan reading.  Indeed, if there was no textual or analytical basis for these headcanons altogether, they would not exist.  Neither is this meant to bash anyone.  Rather, I’d like to show that many of the assumptions we hold are nowhere near as solid or definitive as they sometimes seem to be, and that there is in fact room for a plurality of different headcanons and readings to coexist without elevating one over the other.

1. Maedhros and Maglor were both involved in Elros and Elrond’s upbringing.

As the wealth of Kidnap Fam content demonstrates, this is a very common headcanon.  However, let’s look at what the Silmarillion says.  Bolding is mine for emphasis.

For Maglor took pity upon Elros and Elrond, and he cherished them, and love grew after between them, as little might be thought; but Maglor’s heart was sick and weary with the burden of the dreadful oath. (”Of the Voyage of Eärendil”)

Nowhere is Maedhros mentioned.  He is mentioned in the version of the story included in The Fall of Gondolin, where the passage instead reads:

For Maidros took pity on Elrond, and he cherished him, and love grew after between them, as little might be thought; but Maidros’ heart was sick and weary with the burden of the dreadful oath. (”The Conclusion of the Quenta Nolodrinwa”)

Christopher Tolkien’s commentary directly interjects after this to observe that the passage was rewritten to be the version in the published Silmarillion, which is an interesting distinction to make when the entire version of the story it comes from is very different from the one in the Silmarillion; it is also worth noting that apart from changing which Son of Fëanor it was, Tolkien kept this passage nearly verbatim in the Silmarillion.

Maedhros is also mentioned in the preceding chapter, in Tolkien’s sketch of the mythology, with the line:

Their [Eärendel and Elwing] son Elrond who is part mortal and part elven, a child, was saved however by Maidros. (”The Conclusion of the Sketch of the Mythology”)

So yes, there was once a version of the story in which Maedhros was the one who spared Elrond (Elros did not yet exist, at least not as Elrond’s brother, at this point in Tolkien’s thinking).  This version of the story differs quite significantly from the published version in the Silmarillion; as Christopher Tolkien comments, the Silmarils were of much less significance and had differing fates (Beren and Lúthien’s Silmaril was lost in the Sea after Elwing threw it in, Maglor threw another into a fiery pit, and the third was taken from Morgoth’s crown and launched into the outer darkness by Eärendil).  Also notably, Eärendil does not intercede on behalf of Middle-earth before the Valar.

Of course, being a Tolkien fan pretty much entails picking and choosing which bits of the Legendarium you like.  If you want to take Tolkien’s original thinking that it was Maedhros rather than Maglor who cherished Elrond and Elros, and mix that with the more common version of events in the Silmarillion, go wild.  You can say that the narrator is unreliable, that it makes logical sense for Maedhros to be involved, or that it’s simply more fun to imagine domestic shenanigans with the last two Sons of Fëanor.  But there’s a difference between blending versions of the story as your own personal headcanon, and asserting that headcanon as the one true fanon.

It is also interesting to observe that at no point are both brothers mentioned in relation to Elrond and Elros; it is either Maglor or Maedhros.  The version in The Fall of Gondolin has Maglor sitting by the Sea and singing in regret after the Third Kinslaying while Maidros saves Elrond; in the Silmarillion, it is only Maglor who takes pity on Elrond and Elros.

2. No one else cared about Elros and Elrond; only Maedhros and Maglor did.

Very explicitly in The Silmarillion, “Great was the sorrow of Eärendil and Elwing for the ruin of the havens of Sirion, and the captivity of their sons, and they feared that they would be slain...” (”Of the Voyage of Eärendil”).  But we also read:

Too late the ships of Círdan and Gil-galad the High King came hasting to the aid of the Elves of Sirion; and Elwing was gone, and her sons.  Then such few of that people as did not perish in the assault joined themselves to Gil-galad, and went with him to Balar; and they told that Elros and Elrond were taken captive, but Elwing with the Silmaril upon her breast had cast herself into the sea. (”Of the Voyage of Eärendil”)

Again, bolding is mine for emphasis.

What we see in the Silm version of the story is that 1) when Sirion was attacked, Círdan and Gil-galad raced to help but were too late, 2) a very large percentage of the population of Sirion died in the Kinslaying, and 3) those who survived reported that Elros and Elrond had been taken captive.  That’s it. 

True, there is no mention of any rescue attempts or negotiations, but there also isn’t mention of anything else because at this point, the narrative returns to Eärendil.  Which makes sense, because the voyage of Eärendil is the whole entire point of the chapter, and arguably the climax of the version of the narrative that’s in The Silmarillion.  It’s not “Of the Captivity of Elros and Elrond,” or “Of the Third Kinslaying,” the main focal point of the story is Eärendil sailing to Aman and pleading for all the people of Middle-earth.

There’s also another version of this story in The Fall of Gondolin, where we read:

...but the folk of Sirion perished or fled away, or departed of need to join the people of Maidros, who claimed now the lordship of all the Elves of the Hither Lands. (”The Conclusion of the Quenta Noldorwa”)

In this version, the survivors do not go to Gil-Galad, but either flee or join Maedhros who now claims lordship of all the Elves.  If you go by this story, then there really is very little possibility of a rescue, since 1) Maedhros is now the most powerful lord among the Elves and claims authority over all who are left, where would they even go if they got away, and 2) it would therefore be a betrayal to stand against or attack one’s lord.  It also opens up the possibility that Elrond (this is the version without Elros) had other survivors of Sirion around him while he was a captive, and was therefore not alone.

What all this means though is that we can headcanon whatever we like regarding what happens in Beleriand during this time, but we really don’t have enough information to definitively say what did or did not happen.  And what information we do have in The Silmarillion at least suggests that Círdan and Gil-galad cared about the people of Sirion and tried to help them, and also that the people of Sirion were not in great shape to be mounting any sort of attack on Maedhros and Maglor.

Also, just because someone who survives a horrifically traumatic mass murder which killed nearly everyone they knew does not immediately go out and fight for the well-being of other survivors, it does not therefore mean that they don’t care about them or that they care less than the perpetrators.

3. Maglor raised Elros and Elrond to adulthood.

This is another one of those instances where the absence of evidence does not make a positive.  We don’t actually know for certain how long Elros and Elrond were with Maglor.  In the early letter where Elros and Elrond are found in a cave, it is implied there that they were left there by the sons of Fëanor after they were taken captive, and later found by other, unspecified Elves.  In another version, in The Fall of Gondolin, it reads:

Yet not all would forsake the Outer Lands where they had long suffered and long dwelt; and some lingered many an Age in the West and North, and especially in the western isles.  And among these were Maglor as has been told; and with him Elrond Half-elven, who after went among mortal Men again... (”The Conclusion of the Quenta Nolodrinwa”)

This is also the version of the story where Elros does not exist and it is “from [Elrond] alone the blood of the Firstborn and the seed divine of Valinor have come among Mankind” (”The Conclusion of the Quenta Nolodrinwa”). 

Then there’s also this which Elrond says in Fellowship of the Ring:

Thereupon Elrond paused a while and sighed. ‘I remember well the splendour of their banners,’ he said. ‘It recalled to me the glory of the Elder Days and the hosts of Beleriand, so many great princes and captains were assembled. And yet not so many, nor so fair, as when Thangorodrim was broken, and the Elves deemed that evil was ended for ever, and it was not so.’ (”The Council of Elrond”)

What we see is that Elrond, at least, witnessed the end of the War of Wrath, including the breaking of Thangorodrim.  Then there is this passage from the Silmarillion:

Of the march of the host of the Valar to the north of Middle-earth little is said in any tale; for among them went none of those Elves who had dwelt and suffered in the Hither Lands, and who made the histories of those days that still are known; and tidings of these things they only learned long afterwards from their kinsfolk in Aman. (”Of the Voyage of Eärendil”)

In most versions of the story, the Elves who lived in Beleriand took part in the major conflicts of the War of Wrath.  Men do -“And such few as were left of the three houses of the Elf-friends, Fathers of Men, fought upon the part of the Valar...” (”Of the Voyage of Eärendil”)- but very clearly no Elves.  So Maedhros and Maglor did not participate in or witness the main battles of the War of Wrath, but according to Lord of the Rings (which I would argue holds the “most canonical” status over every other text in the Legendarium) Elrond was there to remember firsthand, if not take part in, major events in the War, suggesting that they were no longer together at that point (which does not preclude Elrond returning to them afterwards, though it would be a very tight timetable with the Fourth Kinslaying).

Returning to the original point, Elros and Elrond could very well have stayed with Maglor until they were grown, even up to and beyond the Choice.  They could equally have left Maglor and Maedhros at any point, or Maglor could have left them with their other kin.  Tolkien changed his mind a lot about the details of the end of the First Age!  There are a good number of different canons, to say nothing of opportunities for different headcanons. 

4. Elros and Elrond turned out to be great people which is all down to Maglor (and Maedhros)’s childrearing (and therefore they were the best possible people to raise them).

Hear the sound of that old familiar bell ringing again?  Absence of evidence one way does not mean that another way is automatically true!  We actually don’t have any information at all about how Maglor brought them up, only that emotionally, there was some element of mutual love in the relationship.  We don’t know for certain how long Elros and Elrond were with Maglor (a few months? a few years? all the way to adulthood?) and we don’t know how or what sort of things Maglor taught them or to what degree they absorbed those lessons.

Yes, Elros and Elrond became great people.  But there is simply too great a gap of information to correlate (either positively or negatively) all their future deeds and character to Maglor (and/or Maedhros)’s upbringing.  Not to mention, people are not only the products of the people who raised them.  So many people influence us on a daily basis, from friends to coworkers to enemies.  While Maglor (and Maedhros) doubtless did have an influence on how E&E grew up and who they became, it seems a little reductive to credit them as the defining factor in Elros and Elrond’s morality or greatness, when both of them (E&E) lived very long lives for their respective fates and met many people and experienced many things.

Narrative Analysis: What’s this about themes?

Textual analysis aside, there’s one other factor which I think is missing in a lot of these discussions, which is genre.  The Legendarium is full of tragedy.  Good people make bad decisions, or suffer (often unjustly) the consequences of another person’s decisions.  People are placed in terrible situations where there is no “good” or “right” decision, where anything they choose has tragic consequences.  Sometimes people make decisions believing that it is justified or for good, only to discover that it was very much the opposite.  Sometimes people know that what they are choosing will hurt them or others, but for one or many reasons, they do it anyways.

The point being that many of the characters Tolkien wrote are purposefully nuanced and tragic.  Yes, there’s a Dark Lord and some very terrifying spiders who are unequivocally evil, but otherwise, nearly every character is some shade of grey.  Characters make decisions with both positive and negative consequences; they exist simultaneously as figures of both heroism and antagonism.  In short, they’re complex!  That’s why they’re so compelling and enjoyable!

So why set up a dichotomy of “So and so is better than so and so”?  Rather than pitting the sons of Fëanor as “the best” in comparison to other characters, why not embrace the complexity of the narrative? 

In order to save the entire world, Eärendil and Elwing had to leave their young children forever.  They could have decided to go back and try to rescue their children, and in doing so they would have also doomed the entire world.  Whatever they chose, someone would suffer for it.  It’s a question that we see explored a lot in fiction but which most of us will never have to confront ourselves: if you were in a position where you had to choose between your loved ones and the fate of the world, which would you choose?

Maglor, a character who has acted almost exclusively as a follower throughout most of the narrative, for once realized the consequences of his actions and, crucially, took active responsibility by caring for and cherishing the children he kidnapped.  It does not absolve him of responsibility for the Kinslayings because children are not tools to redeem the adult figures in their lives, and in any case, it is a fruitless pursuit to attempt to moralize fictional characters existing in a very particular setting and narrative.  However, it is a significant moment in his character arc, especially as we afterwards see him begin to openly contradict and disagree with Maedhros, multiple times within the same chapter after being a relatively silent follower throughout the narrative.  Which makes it all the more tragic later when he slays the guards with Maedhros and steals the Silmarils because we know now that he did not want to, that he might have chosen differently, but ultimately he did not.

Maedhros knew that the kinslayings were wrong and repented of them, and did not attack Sirion for many years.  However, he still did it in the end.  *mumbles in V for Vendetta “I have not come for what you hoped to do, I have come for what you did do”* He did not kill Elrond and Elros, and in some early versions of the story, was indeed the one to save them rather than Maglor.  He also continued to kill in the name of the Oath.  Rather than isolating any one of these things as proof of goodness or badness, all of them work together as part of his tragic figure - a prince, once great, with good intentions, who has fallen to such a point in his life that all he can see around him anymore is death and despair.

(On a side note, Maedhros-Hamlet AU when)

Elros and Elrond were young children who survived a horrifically traumatic event.  They were able to develop some sort of loving relationship with Maglor (or Maedhros), and as adults, they took pride in Eärendil and Elwing as their parents.  Rather than pitting Maglor against Eärendil and Elwing, is it not more important that amidst the apocalyptic horrors of late First Age Beleriand, Elros and Elrond had adult figures in their lives who loved them and cherished them, both before and after the Kinslaying?  Love is not the only important thing in the world, of course, and it is not meant to justify any of the actions taken by the aforementioned adults.  But.  Amidst the tragedy of the broken world they lived in, they were loved. 

Summary: Headcanons are great and can co-exist with each other

Not to belabour the point, but there is really so much we do not know about the end of the First Age.  Tolkien changed and developed his thoughts on his world throughout his life, and even with what he did set down in writing, there are plenty of gaps where we can only guess.  That’s part of what makes the Legendarium so fun to engage with as readers!

With all that in mind, there’s nothing wrong with having a preferred version of the story or a favourite set of headcanons, so long as we acknowledge that they are not the only way to engage with the text.  Furthermore, fiction and fan engagement is not meant to be about the moral high ground.  Especially with the complex characters and world that Tolkien created, you don’t need to put down other characters or narratives in order to justify your preferred reading.  It’s First Age Beleriand!  To modify a parlance from Reddit, Everyone Sucks At Least a Little Bit Here.  Characters can have good intentions with tragic consequences, make bad decisions but have some good come out of it nonetheless, or do things which have both positive and negative impacts.

Eärendil and Elwing do not need to be horrible or unfit parents in order for Maglor and/or Maedhros to genuinely pity and cherish Elros and Elrond.  Those are separate relationships with no correlation.  And none of them need to be perfect parental figures in order for Elros and Elrond to have real loving relationships with all of them.  It’s not a competition for who can “best” raise Elros and Elrond or who loves them “the most.”  You can love Maglor and Maedhros as good parents!  There’s just no need to go putting anyone else down, or to treat it as the one definitive interpretation of the characters and the story.

[echo-bleu]

Hi Echo! Tell us about Those Towers We Built? Love your art too, by the way! :D

Thank you so much! 💙

Oh my, those towers we built is a fave but I feel like I've talked about it on here more than I've written it xD

The original post that kicked it off is here. It's a canon divergence from the end of the First Age where the Valar decided to wipe the memories of everyone in Aman of the entire First Age, thinking they could erase the trauma and its causes. But the bulk of the story takes place in the late Third Age, both in Aman and Middle-Earth.

With Celebrían on the verge of fading, Elrond prays for a way West for her—not to the Valar, but to his father, Eärendil, whose star disappeared from the sky two ages ago. Eärendil, one of the only people in Aman to remember everything, takes Celebrían to Tirion, kicking off great and unforeseen changes for everyone.

Here's a snippet:

“I wish to swear fealty to the King of the Noldor in Aman,” Celebrían offers. Her words flow freely and smoothly, quite unlike when she had first come, and Nelyo almost doesn’t catch the odd phrasing. There aren’t Noldor anywhere but in Aman – why the addition? But he nods and she launches into her oath, with a wording, despite her slight accent, that would have belonged to the court of his grandfather. Nelyo replies in kind, the words flowing gracefully out of his mouth. He is reminded, unbidden, of his first stumbling steps in court on his own, his own oath to Finwë upon his coming of age – the first of the grandchildren, the heir of Fëanor himself, it had been a city-wide event. There are few people in the throne room now, thankfully. Celebrían chose her time well. She looks better than she did when he saw her first. She’s filled out, her skin regaining a healthy shine, and there is a timid but real smile on her face. “Gladly do I welcome you to Tirion, Celebrían Celeborniel,” Nelyo finishes, carefully enunciating the foreign names. “I am happy to see you well enough to come back.”

Ask me about my WIPs

[eri-pl]

So, the Gift of Men

Or: how I interpret it. It has two parts, but probably veery connected. (kinda long)

Fate not defined by Music

This... is either part of the Gift or not actually was there from the start. Which would be hilarious if it wasn't tragic, because it again falls into "Morgoth does stuff that seems genius to him, stuff explodes in his face later".

Humans don't have a natural tendency. Neither to good, or to a particular career path. They do have skills, sure, so for example some make better warriors, but they don't have it on the level of fate. Unless someone puts a fate on a human (Turin, Tuor) but even then, humans are very slippery (Turin did make a lot of bad choices and I don't think the curse would work without this). Humans are not bound by fate.

To clarify: Neither are Elves bound by it absolutely, as they have free-will, but they are (at least: without human intervention) bound in the Oedipus sense. No matter what free choices they make, some things end up happening. It's up to discussion how it works with the Ainur, but i would put them on the Elves-shelf.

Also, if someone was to change the Music... the ability to act independently of it would be necessary for this I guess? How can you even change something back in time?

I would say you can't change the meaning of a piece of music that already exists, but the soundtrack to the infamous series does exactly this (kudos for mr Bear). Recontextualize, at least.

Oh, this soundtrack. If you hate the series, its soundtrack is a perfect illustration of "things more wonderful, which he himself [Amazon] hath not imagined". If you love it, the soundtrack a wonderful. part of it.

Not tied so closely to Arda

So, humans die and are imperfect and get sick and whatnot. but is that a problem with humans or with Arda?

OK now that I think about it more, it's still the same as part 1. Humans can go out because we have no fate (of that kind at least) to bind us in. Unless something does bind, like a ring or an oath (does it mean... does it mean an oath could also unbind an elf? does it mean that darkness everlasting = a stupid name for whatever-happens-to-humans? I asked it before I think.).

Humans will go out because... some reason? Judging by the Numenorians, it may be something in the style of "we make a lot of choices, even if small, that untangle us from Arda, because they don't harmonize with how Arda is)

But with what happens to Arda, this has an aspect of "not being tied to a sinking ship". Kind of?

Lost my train of thought again.

TLDR: It's a beautiful, unpredictable thing even if it's "no beta we die".

Bonus: seeking

To quote another author (also great!) "To be human is to want which we cannot have". Humans are always a) causing problems they can't solve (and sometimes even the Valar can't), and b) wanting things they can't have (elves do this too, and

No, that's a thing the Eldar also do a lot. That's a thing Melkor invented before Elves even happened. Both of those. Still, as humans are Melkor-coded, it is still a very human thing. It doesn't sound like a gift. Then, maybe, the gift would be some kind of solution to this. Creative problems need creative solutions.

Still, humans get crazy ideas.

[warrioreowynofrohan]

16, 17, 18, 19?

16. you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

I don't vibe at all with the Fëanoreans returning from the Halls of Mandos without actually grappling with their deeds and repudiating them and being remoreseful. This includes any fic/meta about them returning and still demanding the remaining Silmaril (completely missing the point!) or getting into a power struggle over the kingship of the Noldor.

A variation on this: any fic or meta about someone dragging Maglor back to Valinor doesn't work for me. His central character flaw, to my mind, is being avoidant, not dealing with things - he knows the Kingslayings are wrong but he keeps committing them, he knows he should break the Oath rather than attack the camp of the Valar but he doesn't, and then he spends two Ages avoiding everyone. If he's going to come back, there needs to be some moment of choice on his part to change that; it can't just be Elrond or someone clonking him on the head and dragging him on a boat.

17. there should be more of this type of fic/art

More art of elderly Beren and Luthien. More art of any non-Finweans as kids/families.

18. it's absolutely criminal that the fandom has been sleeping on...

Eärendil deserves way more fans than he has, I think he's an absolutely wonderful character!

19. you're mad/ashamed/horrified you actually kind of like...

I don't really have any Silm guilty pleasures (now that I've mostly stopped feeling embarrassed/weird about my crackship), but I am mildly appalled/amused that my most popular Tolkien post on tumblr is a shitpost about Sauron, who I don't actually like! (The 'this meeting should have been an email' one.)

[last-capy-hupping]

Part 1.2 of Oath meta: why don’t Thingol and his descendants surrender the Silmaril?

So, I was looking further into the Silm, and I came across this passage on page 296, which I think is worth analyzing to explain how the Oath works.

“Now when first the tidings came to Maedhros that Elwing yet lived, and dwelt in possession of the Silmaril by the mouths of Sirion, he repenting of the deeds of Doriath withheld his hand. But in time the knowledge of their oath unfulfilled returned to torment him and his brothers, and gathering from their wandering hunting paths, they sent messages to the Havens of friendship and yet of stern demand.”

This right here is important. When Maedhros tries to foreswear the Oath, he doesn’t so much as ask for the Silmaril back. He’s seemingly willing to stop pursuing its return. And when he and his brothers fail in their endeavor at foreswearing it, they start with asking for the Silmaril’s return. To me, this gives every indication that they believed that simply recovering the Silmaril would be enough to fulfill their Oath.

Now, why does the text say that Elwing refuses?

“Then Elwing and the people of Sirion would not yield the jewel which Beren had won and Lúthien had worn, and for which Dior the fair was slain; and least of all while Eärendil their lord was on the sea, for it seemed to them that in the Silmaril lay the healing and the blessing that came upon their houses and their ships.”

So, they want to keep the Silmaril because:

1) they believe that it’s Elwing’s birthright (Beren and Lúthien won it back fair and square and it’s an important legacy item)

2) Dior died for it (the Fëanorians don’t actually have a right to the jewel because of Doriath)

3) they believe that the Silmaril is bringing them good health and fortune.

Again, it seems very strange to me that distrust of the Fëanorians or the knowledge/belief that Elwing would be slain anyway, even if she gave it up, isn’t even put forward. That leads me to believe that that’s not what would have happened.

Finally, why do the Fëanorians actually attack the Havens?

“And so it came to pass the last and cruelest of the slayings of Elf by Elf; and that was the third of the great wrongs achieved by the accursed oath.”

They do it because Elwing and her people refused to surrender their claim to the jewel and believed that it was superior to the Fëanorian one.

However…this is not a pro-Fëanorian post, nor is it an anti-Elwing post. The motives for keeping the jewel outlined above are very sound and justified. The second point—that the Fëanorians lost the right to the Silmaril—is proven true when Maedhros and Maglor actually do get their hands on the jewel. The third point ends up being proven indirectly true when Eärendil and Elwing use the Silmaril to get to Valinor and petition the Valar for aid.

Plus, we have to remember that Dior and Elwing were both extremely young and inexperienced, by elven standards and even peredhil ones. It’s not surprising at all that they held onto the Silmaril rather than surrendering it and that they firmly believed that it was theirs by right, as well as something needed to restore their lost kingdoms and their people’s good fortunes.

Plus, even if Dior and Elwing were legitimate Silmaril thieves, the Fëanorians are still mass murderers, which is so much worse that it’s not even worth quibbling about a little jewel thieves. Finally, as I said in the very first post, the Fëanorians were willing to kill elven Silmaril hoarders when they swore the Oath. The fact that hundreds of years later, they no longer wanted to do that doesn’t change the wrongness of their oath.

[serene-faerie]

RGG/Middle Earth (ficlet)

@sadkois @majimemegoro @iheart-nishiki

I wrote a mini LOTR/Silmarillion crossover one-shot, with Nishiki as an elf prince. For context, I was kind of inspired by the Silmarillion for Elf Prince!Nishiki, and my overall vision for this kind of AU is that Nishiki starts out with his cold, bitter personality from Kiwami, but after a lot of trauma, he decides to destroy his memories and puts himself to sleep. Then he wakes up after centuries, when he meets Kiryu, and he basically starts over and has a redemption arc that makes him much kinder.

But here's a little ficlet that shows Kiwami!Nishiki as an elf prince. Let me know what you think of it!

It had been a long, vicious battle– one that would never be forgotten in all the ages of the world.

The battlefield was strewn with corpses of elves, orcs, horses, and other beasts. The air was heavy with the stench of blood. The Dark Lord’s forces stood no chance against the skill of the elves, but their victory came at too great a cost.

Akira Nishikiyama, Prince of the Noldor, stared down at the jewel in his hand. Colored a pale gold, it glittered even without the light of the stars shining down on it. It burned in his hand– too pure and holy for his blood-stained palms.

Once, Nishikiyama would have given anything to get it back from the Dark Lord. This jewel was one of his finest creations– one of three jewels that shone with the Light of Valinor. Nishikiyama had made many creations, but these gems were his pride, his greatest achievement. They symbolized the strength of his kingdom– an artifact to prove his worthiness in leading the Noldor from Valinor to Middle Earth.

And now they were the very thing that destroyed his kingdom.

It was these jewels that the Dark Lord had coveted and stolen-- after winning his trust and whispering lies into Nishikiyama's ears. It was these gems that had driven Nishikiyama to swear an oath to take them back– an oath that brought nothing but chaos and destruction for all the elves. And it was these jewels– and his own cursed oath –that brought about the downfall of his own kingdom.

“So it was all for nothing,” he spoke with tears in his eyes. “Everything I did… everything I sacrificed… and this is what it has led to.”

His kingdom was in ruins. The kingdom that rose to power under his rule was gone because of his pride and ambitions.

“Your Highness.” 

Shindo approached him. “It’s getting dark. We have to leave now.”

Nishikiyama shook his head. “You lead them, Shindo,” he said wearily. “I’m not fit to lead them.”

“My Prince?”

“Because of me, the kingdom is ruined,” Nishikiyama continued bitterly. “My ambitions, my pride… it’s destroyed our home.”

He turned to Shindo. “I’m not worthy of being your ruler anymore,” he continued. “Take them anywhere where the Shadow won’t reach them.”

“What about you?” Shindo asked him.

“I don’t know where I'll go,” Nishikiyama said. “But thank you, Shindo. Thank you for everything.”

He walked away, and Shindo didn’t stop him.

With the jewel in hand, Nishikiyama staggered to the shores of the Great Sea. He glared out at the waves, and with every ounce of venom he could muster, he hurled the jewel as far as he could into the deep-blue waters. A tear slid down his face despite himself, and he let out a shaky breath as he closed his eyes.

It was done. His greatest creation was gone.

Where he would go, he had no idea. Nishikiyama couldn’t return to Valinor now– he had too much blood on his hands. And he wasn’t going back to the Noldor– not after his own ambitions ruined their chances of returning to Aman.

In the end, he was all alone. 

But it was the perfect punishment for him and his ambitions, for his mistrust towards the Valar, for his foolishness in trusting the Dark Lord.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

He wandered for nearly two hundred years in solitude. Seasons came and went, and the world changed around him, but Nishikiyama didn’t stop his wandering. He traveled through the realms of Men, taking refuge for a short time before leaving immediately. He wasn’t interested in rebuilding his kingdom anymore– his ambitions had finally cooled down.

But the remainder of the Great Enemy’s forces were trying to find him. They were going to corrupt him, turn him into yet another servant for the Dark Lord– no doubt to force him to craft things for him.

Nishikiyama would rather throw himself into the Great Sea than go into the Shadow. He wasn’t going to take refuge in the elven realms– that was just asking for disaster. But he couldn’t lead an army to the east. No one would want to march under an elf who brought about the fall of his own kingdom. And he couldn’t leave Middle Earth anymore– the Valar would never let him back into Aman.

There was only one other choice left. He would have to hide himself.

And there was someone who could help with that.

It took several more days, but Nishikiyama finally reached the golden trees of Lórien– the realm of Seong-hui.

He was met with arrows pointed at him, but Nishikiyama swallowed his pride and got down on his hands and knees before the Marchwarden.

“I need help,” he pleaded. “Please, let me speak to Lady Seong-hui.”

Despite his reluctance, Joon-gi Han led him to the Lady of the Wood.

Seong-hui was less than pleased to see him here– understandably so. However, she listened to Nishikiyama’s plight.

“His men are on the hunt for me,” Nishikiyama explained. “But there’s nowhere I can go without them following me. And I cannot go back to Valinor anymore. Which means that there’s one option left for me.” He bowed his head. “I want to get rid of my memories.”

“What?!” Seong-hui looked at him in disbelief. “You can’t be serious.”

“I am,” Nishikiyama said firmly. “I’m going to destroy my memories and put myself to sleep. It’s the only way to atone for everything I’ve done.”

Despite her reluctance, Seong-hui relented. She presented him with a small crystal vial, filled with a light-blue elixir.

“Drink this, and your memories shall be erased,” she explained. “It works within an hour of consumption, so do not drink it immediately.”

“I would recommend putting some distance between yourself and Lórien before consuming it,” Han told him. “There’s a pack of orcs that’s been tracking you, so you need to leave as soon as you can. And make sure they lose your scent when you leave."

Nishikiyama accepted it. And then, despite knowing the consequences, he made yet another oath with Seong-hui, who swore on the lives of her people to never reveal his identity to him, should he ever wake up again.

And that brought Nishikiyama to a cave in the Trollshaws Forest.

The forces of the Dark Lord were still tracking him. It was a miracle that he hadn’t been caught yet. But his luck was running out, and it wouldn’t be long before they came to the forest.

Nishikiyama entered the cave, letting the darkness swallow him whole. He came to the base of what looked like a large tree trunk, then sat down on the cold, hard ground. He held up the elixir as his mind was suddenly overwhelmed by a wave of memories.

Yuko, his sickly younger sister who was taken far too soon. All the insults and sneers he faced during every goddamn council. Every moment that Jingu had whispered doubts and suspicion into his mind. His kingdom, once a shining city for the elves, now destroyed because of his own pride and ambitions.

He uncorked the vial with trembling hands. Tears spilled down his face as he stared at the elixir within.

He didn’t want to do this. But he had to– for his sake, and for the sake of the elves.

“The responsibility is mine,” he whispered with a bitter smile. “You will never have me, Lord of the Dark.”

He drank the elixir.

[aadmelioraa]

Hello my sister in Ulmo, how many hours a day do you spend thinking about Anárion in s2? Any blind headcanons/guesses?

I'm lowkey losing it

Ahahaha I am also lowkey losing it over Anárion and in general…I've been waking up at 4am to re-read The Mariner's Wife, I cried over the Oath of Elendil yesterday not once but twice, I have lost all the chill I once possessed.

Putting this reply under a cut bc it got long, oops.

So I was initially pretty sure that Anárion was with Amandil in the West of the island engaged in faithful resistance activities, possibly building communication networks and gathering artifacts. I thought it would make sense to intro them together, and if he's with his grandfather that makes sense for Elendil too (since he seems more angry that worried that Anárion peaced out). But since they haven't mentioned Amandil yet at all (right? unless I missed it?), and we know they're not fully adhering to canon re: the Lords of Andúnië (which is fine, truly, I'm more than ok with that change, I actually find it interesting), I'm wondering if Amandil will be the show at all. I also have questions about how they could handle his voyage bc like…that really really makes the Valar look bad, ya know? I have hope they will handle the King's Men/Faithful conflict in a way that allows complexity and nuance, but they're up against quite a challenge there when it comes to the source material. 

Anyway, I have gotten off topic, sorry. I have speculated that when we meet Anárion he will already be married, since we know both he and Isildur have to marry and it wouldn't make sense to develop relationships for both of them onscreen. I think that could be part of the reason he stayed away. I don't have any firm thoughts on how he'll be introduced other than that…it's possible Eärien or Elendil sought him out to pass on the news about Isildur, and that's how they reconnected.

Mostly I reeeeeeally want casting news!! He is top of my list of the casting choices I want to see, but who knows when we'll get any info there. In my head, Anárion is slightly taller than Maxim's Isildur, and while Isildur grows a beard eventually, Anárion prefers to stay clean shaven. I see him as being a very grounded person who is deeply invested in making the right choices for his community, but there is likely some inner conflict there when it comes to his faith…I don't think leaving was easy for him to do, I think he probably struggled with that choice. I think he and Isildur have historically balanced each other very well, and it was hard for both of them to be apart for an extended period for the first time in their lives, particularly following the loss of their mother.

I think all the kids inherited something from their mom, Eärien her love of drawing, Isildur an affinity for nature, and Anárion some healing skill. I am using those headcanons and more for a fic, might as well have my fun before the show inevitably contradicts them haha. I'm just so excited to see how he fits into the family dynamic, even as it's fractured, I love them all so much <3 <3 <3

What headcanons and thoughts do you have?

[thelordofgifs]

absolutely loved the new part of tfs!! sorry for not sending the ask earlier <3

maedhros!! beloved!! am i imagining the paralles with one of earlier installments? where thingol had him chained?? with maglor wounded?? but now there's no maglor because maedhros IS what wounded him and aaaahhhhhh WHY are you doing this to me

fingon actively avoiding executing curufin is hilarious. the house of feanor will go lenghts to fulfill their oath and meanwhile fingon is like "if i ignore it it didn't happen"

also love the potential for further fingon and maedhros development - will maedhros be angry with fingon not telling him? will there be "what other secrets are you keeping from me" scene? because wouldn't that be the perfect opportunity to say "i promised thingol to execute your other brother"

curufin... baby... he changed so much over the course of the fic. i hate him a lot but someone please give it a hug. also love how he and maglor are now on a roadtrip. roadtrips are a thing in this fic i see

and also. do it. kill maglor. i'll watch. you've been dragging him half alive for like 10 chapters of the fic. do you really think it would be satisfying to let him die?

and love mandos in this one. he's just. regretting the revival for elves isn't mandatory. regretting all of his life choices actually.

anyways i love this fic a lot, and your writing is amazing as always <3

Ahhh you are the sweetest and I love you to pieces!! You don’t need to apologise for not sending the ask earlier don’t be silly – this is such a lovely ask to see ❤️❤️

You are very much Not imagining the parallels with the chaining! Also of course he was rather famously shackled on Thangorodrim and Fingon is very unhappy about having to chain him up now :(

ok so the thing with Fingon is. he is Fully Convinced that he is the only sensible guy in Himring atm and he’s… he’s so wrong about this?? And he doesn’t even realise?? Now that we’re coming to the end of arc 2 (one more part!!) it’s easier to look back over it and say that the main focus of the last nine parts has been Fëanorian Melodrama, but that doesn’t mean Fingon doesn’t have plenty of character stuff he will need to work out.

and yes Plans coming up for Curufin and Maglor hehe!! Poor Curufin keeps having to go on road trips. He is so sick of road trips.

bestie wdym “ten chapters” Maglor has been badly injured in some way or another since part ONE. I might kill him. I might not. It depends. (It doesn’t actually I already know what I’m going to do.) he’s such a pincushion!! Why does he keep doing that!!

hehe am very glad you liked Mandos here! Between Lúthien and Finrod he’s just kind of like “you can’t… you can’t DO that…” The whole “Finrod refuses to leave Mandos” was something I pondered for a while before I actually decided to go down that route. Firstly I am always very scared of writing Finrod: he’s such a complicated and intimidating character!! And secondly I didn’t want to give him an edgy anti-Valar arc because that’s not what he’s doing exactly. He is (kind of) grateful for the chance to be re-embodied. But I need Celegorm’s death to have continuing ripple effects and once Finrod jumped into the story I realised this might be a good and thematically relevant way of doing it. And at some point I want to start digging into politics in Aman too, which makes the canon divergence important! (Hint hint who do you think might be showing up eventually 👀)

[ceescedasticity]

spackling the Oath

The Oath. The Oath of Fëanor, the Oath written and delivered by Fëanor, Fëanor's Oath. That Oath.

Note, I am not saying analysis or theory or even headcanon. —Maybe headcanon? But, anyway, I'm not saying I think all of this is the most plausible or logical interpretation of canon(s), or even guaranteeing full canon compatibility; it's just compatible enough and gives me results I want, so.

If they'd recovered the Silmarils, the Oath would eventually have turned them on each other. Not right away, and there might have been ways to game the system, but. It wouldn't ever be satisfied and it would recognize no exceptions. Eventually an oath-taker holding a Silmaril would be driven against himself.

But!

The Oath has four anchor points: Manwë and Varda; Eru Ilúvatar; Everlasting Darkness; and the oathtaker(s) themselves, some balance between each individual and the 'we' of the Oath.

Manwë and Varda were never going to hold them to the Oath. Hold them to the Doom, sure, but they wanted that Oath gone.

Everlasting Darkness is never not going to hold them to the Oath, insofar as it does anything. It's not conscious, it can't change its mind.

Oathtakers can and do change their minds. And I think by the end of the First Age, even those still sure they had every right to the Silmarils wished they'd never taken that damn oath. I like to think even Fëanor would have realized it was a bad idea and want it to go away, by then.

But two anchor points are sufficient to keep the Oath in place like it or not, and Eru hasn't said anything about it to the Valar or answered any queries, so… probably it's there forever?

But!

Eru is outside Arda, and on dying Men go outside Arda, so… couldn't someone accepting the Gift of Men try to carry a message?

Specifically this is Elros's idea and he intends to carry such a message himself, as long as he's persuaded Maedhros really is rejecting the Oath. He'll have to talk to Maedhros before leaving obviously.

So if Námo could arrange that please…?

…

Námo does arrange it. What does he have to lose. Maybe it'll work and he won't have to host them forever.

Elros talks to Maedhros, and probably the twins and Caranthir, too. Then he agrees he'll try to talk to Eru for them, and leaves the world.

Nothing happens immediately. In fact, it's centuries later when that third anchor point just… suddenly breaks.

With three out of four anchor points gone and the fëa's wholehearted cooperation, Námo and Nienna can excise the Oath without doing catastrophic damage.

There are many other considerations for when someone is reembodied, questions of healing and practicality and politics, but that barrier is gone, for those individuals. And it can theoretically be removed for anyone else, given a mortal or mortals willing to play messenger.

If they'd known, in Beleriand — if they'd asked someone to speak on their behalf— They couldn't have gotten out of the Oath completely, but its grip would have been weaker.

[galadhremmin]

Thinking about why Feanor was so insistent on leaving to the point of being willing to commit murder for it, aside from his grief. And upon rereading, I think I understand why. This is what the herald tells the Noldor when they’re about to leave Tirion;

Go not forth! For the hour is evil, and your road leads to sorrow that ye do not foresee. No aid will the Valar lend you in this quest; but neither will they hinder you; for this ye shall know: as ye came hither freely, freely shall ye depart. But thou Fëanor Finwë's son, by thine oath art exiled. The lies of Melkor thou shalt unlearn in bitterness. Vala he is, thou saist. Then thou hast sworn in vain, for none of the Valar canst thou overcome now or ever within the halls of Eä, not though Eru whom thou namest had made thee thrice greater than thou art.'

The Valar are not actually stopping Feanor from leaving Valinor; in fact they are exiling him from Valinor because of his Oath. This is not about being exiled from Tirion; he already is (the 12 years are not over), and the advice the herald gives the Noldor is about departing from Aman. He is already unable to turn back. This was never just about having committed an atrocity, because no kinslaying has happened yet. He is driven to desperation before he has done anything but swear to retrieve his work (and kill Melkor in the process; because although the Oath names the Silmarils they cannot be taken without his defeat. Or so you would assume! The part of the Oath that is meant to scare anyone else from covetting/trying to take the Silmarils is... unfortunate and borne from his paranoia about anyone else taking them). 

And he is not just exiled, but already told that he will fail and die. 

This also shows in his reply. 

'So! Then will this valiant people send forth the heir of their King alone into banishment with his sons only, and return to their bondage?’

He and his sons have been singled out by their Oath; they have no option of returning anymore. That is why he is so intent on hurrying the Noldor along so they won’t change their minds. If they start doubting and turn back, he is doomed and has already lost any chance of avenging his father or regaining his work. 

Because he is not allowed to turn back, and has already been judged, and before any kinslaying. The Doom is merely the judgement of all those who continue follow him out of Aman.

This is a great argument against people who say the Feanorians only thought the Oath was truly binding. Feanor apparently ends up in Mandos, so no, they seem not to go to the void. But the Valar are holding him and his sons to it here, and this is before there is any crime committed in its name. They are not very forgiving about the Oath itself, and do not give him or his sons the option to repent from it and turn back.

This is how you create the desperation necessary for murder.

[skyeventide]

since I reread the Shaping of Middle Earth's version of the final dialogue between Maedhros and Maglor, something immediately clicked in my head. I talked about before about how I think the only (well, one of two) possible way to logically include "his rights had become void and that the oath was vain" in Maedhros' inner thoughts is by assuming a narrative insertion (and I don't say this just because there's an external narrator — logically via textual proof, I genuinely don't believe it makes sense).

but fam, the Shaping of ME draft crucially changes something: Maedhros' and Maglor's lines are reversed. what in the Silm is said by Maglor here is said by Maedhros (whom I'll call Maidros to differentiate), and vice versa. this means, and hear me out, that Maidros is the one who acknowledges the Valar as potential arbiters in who should get the Silmarils, he who says they might come into their own via that route. which follows... that taking the hallowing of Varda as proof that the their rights had become void actually inserts itself in a characterisation where he was already acknowledging Varda (& co.) as a rightful arbiter. in that light, it makes perfect sense to have that line inserted after the burning. granted, the external narrator still exists, and has no way to know what Maidros is thinking — but this is a meaningful deduction to add into the narrative. (it still remains very baffling that Maidros should ever think that the Valar are on their side, considering the whole curse his House is placed under, plus the doom of the Noldor, which would make him either very naive or very delusional, but that's a different matter.)

in the Silm version, Maedhros' characterisation as established by the dialogue with Maglor presents a completely different picture, one of unwillingness to submit and lack of acknowledgement of any metaphysical authority of the Valar over the oath. but Maidros? Maidros could reasonably think that his right depends on Varda's hallowing, unlike the Silm counterpart, who is virtually another character entirely. (I will need to go check the ever useful Arda Reconstructed to see how the Silm scene was put together at the editorial level, to see where that specific sentence I talk about is taken from.)

(it's not the first time Tolkien mixes these two up, whether intentionally switching the characters around or possibly because of a mistake. not just for example with regards to who decides to take in Elrond&Elros, but also, and really egregiously, with regard to the Thangorodrim rescue with the eagle. in Nature of ME, it's "Maelor" who is rescued by the eagles, and Maelor is Maglor. probably. or maybe it's Maedhros with an identity crisis again.)