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theliterateape · 4 years

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I Like to Watch | Zack Snyder’s Justice League

by Don Hall

Mythology is fun.

As a kid I loved reading Edith Hamilton’s book on the Greek gods and the myths. Hercules, Perseus, Apollo, and Hera—this fell completely in line with my love for superhero comics. The strangely petty human traits of envy, greed, and lust combined with the power to level cities make for some great storytelling.

Zeus was basically Harvey Weinstein in the retroactive revision we’re mired in today. If Harvey could’ve changed into a golden animal and boned unsuspecting ladies looking for careers in Hollywood I’m pretty certain he would. The gods and demi-gods of the Greeks dealt with daddy issues, mommy issues, bad relationships, and fighting. Lots of fighting. Sometimes for the good of humanity but more often for the glory of winning.

Zach Snyder is in the business of tackling myths and reframing them with a style all his own. His career has become its own myth.

From Dawn of the Dead (not so much a reboot of Romero's zombie mythology but a philosophical reimagining of the genre that arguably jumpstarted The Hollywood fascination with it), 300 (a borderline homoerotic take on the myth of the Greek underdog), and Watchmen (a ridiculously ambitious attempt to put one of the most iconic takedowns on the potential fascism of the superhero legend machine ever written) to his nearly single-handed hack at answering the Marvel juggernaut with Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice, Snyder is in the artistic business of subverting and re-envisioning the mythologies we embrace without even seeing them as such.

Snyder's style is operatic. It is on a grand scale even in the most mundane moments. The guy loves slow motion like Scorcese loves mobsters and Italian food. When you're tackling big themes with larger than life stories, the epic nature of his vision makes sense and has alienated a good number of audience members. With such excess, there are bound to be missteps but I'd argue that his massive take on these characters he molds from common understanding and popular nomenclature elevates them to god-like stature.

Fans of Moore's Watchmen have much to complain about Snyder's adaptation. The titular graphic novel is almost impossible to put in any other form than the one Moore intended and yet, Snyder jumped in feet-first and created a living, breathing representation of most, if not all, of the source material's intent. Whether you dig on it or not, it's hard to avoid acknowledging that the first five minutes of Watchmen is a mini-masterpiece of style, storytelling, and epic tragedy wrapped up in a music video.

Despite a host of critical backlash for his one fully original take, Sucker Punch is an amazing thing to see. More a commentary on video game enthusiasm with its lust for hot animated chicks and over-the-top violence that a celebration of cleavage and guns, the film is crazily entertaining. For those who hated the ending, he told you in the title what his plan was all along.

The first movie I saw in the theaters that tried to take a superhero mythology and treat it seriously (for the most part) was Richard Donner's Superman: The Movie. Never as big a fan of the DC characters as I have been of Marvel, it was still extraordinary to see a character I had only really known in pages to be so fully realized. Then came Burton's Batman movies. The superhero film was still an anomaly but steam was gaining. Things changed with Bryan Singer's X-Men in 2000, then Raimi's Spiderman, and those of us who grew up with our pulpy versions of Athena, Hermes, and Hades were rewarded with Nolan's Batman Begins. A far cry from the tongue-in-cheek camp of the 1966 TV Batman, Christian Bale's Bruce Wayne was a serious character and his tale over three films is a tragic commentary filled with the kind of death and betrayal and triumph befitting the grand narrative he deserved.

I loved Singer's Superman Returns in 2006 because it was such a love letter to the 1978 film (down to the opening credits) but by then, the MCU was taking over the world.

Snyder's first of what turns out to be an epic storyline involving perhaps seven or eight movies was Man of Steel. It was fun and, while I had my issues with the broodiness of Kal El, the odd take on Jonathan Kent, and a redheaded Lois Lane, I had no issue with Superman snapping Zod's neck. Darker and more tragic than any other version of the Kryptonian, it was still super entertaining.

Then came Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. By 2016, Marvel had codified their formula of serious characters wrestling with serious issues of power and responsibility peppered with lots of good humor and bright colors. Snyder's desaturated pallete and angst-filled demi-gods was not the obvious road to financial competition.

I'll confess, I hated it. BvS felt half-rendered. Lex Luthor was kind of superficial and played as a kind of Joker. The whole Bruce Wayne wants to kill Superman thing felt undeveloped and the "Martha" moment was just stupid.

When Joss Whedon's version of Snyder's Justice League came out in 2017, I was primed for it to be a turd and I wasn't surprised. So much of it didn't work on any level. I dismissed it as DC trying and failing miserably and was comforted by the coming of Thanos.

Following Thanos and the time heist was COVID. Suddenly, we were internationally sidelined and the movie theater industry caved in. Streaming services started popping up like knock-off smartphones and Hollywood was reeling, doing anything and everything to find a way back. Since Whedon's disastrous helming of Snyder's third act, fans online had been demanding to #ReleasetheSnyderCut but no one was ever really taking them seriously until all movie production was shut down for a year.

The stage was set to remedy a mistake (or at least make some bucks on a do-over of a huge box office failure). Snyder had left the production in part because of the suicide of his daughter and in part due to the constant artistic fights over executives looking for the quippy fun of the MCU but he still had all the original footage. Add to that the broiling accusations that Joss Whedon was "abusive" during the reshoots, the path seemed destined. For an additional $70 million and complete control, Snyder delivered a four hour mega-movie streamed on HBOMax.

Of course, I was going to watch the thing as soon as I could.

The Whedon version opens with an homage to the now dead Superman (including the much maligned digitally erased mustache on Henry Cavill). The SynderCut opens with the death of Superman and the agony of his death scream as it travels across the planet. It's a simple change but exemplifies the very different visions of how this thing is gonna play out.

Snyder doesn't want us to be OK with the power of these beings unleashed. He wants us to feel the damage and pain of death. He wants the results of violence to be as real as he can. When Marvel's Steve Rogers kicks a thug across the room and the thug hits a wall, he crumples and it is effectively over. When Batman does the same thing, we see the broken bones (often in slow motion) and the blood smear on the wall as the thug slides to the ground.

The longer SnyderCut is bloated in some places (like the extended Celtic choir singing Aquaman off to sea or the extended narrations by Wonder Woman which sound slightly like someone trying to explain the plot to Siri). On the other hand, the scene with Barry Allen saving Iris West is both endearing and extraordinary, giving insight to the power of the Flash as well as some essential character-building in contrast to Whedon's comic foil version.

One thing I noticed in this variant is that Zach wants the audience to experience the sequence of every moment as the characters do. An example comes when Diana Prince goes to the crypt to see the very plot she belabors over later. The sequence is simple. She gets a torch and goes down. Most directors which jump cut to the torch. Snyder gives us five beats as she grabs the timber, wraps cloth around the end, soaks it with kerosene, pulls out a box of matches, and lights the torch. Then she goes down the dark passageway.

The gigantic, lush diversity of Snyder’s vision of the DC superhero universe—from the long shots of the sea life in the world of Atlantis to the ancient structures and equipment of Themyscira— is almost painterly. Snyder isn't taking our time; he's taking his time. We are rewarded our patience with a far better backstory for the villain, a beautifully rendered historic battle thwarting Darkseid's initial invasion (including a fucking Green Lantern), and answers to a score of questions set up in both previous films.

Whedon's Bruce Wayne was more Ben Affleck; Snyder's is full-on Frank Miller Batman, the smartest, most brutal fucker in the room. Cyborg, instead of Whedon's sidelined non-character, is now a Frankenstein's monster, grappling with the trade-off between acceptance and enormous power. Wonder Woman is now more in line with the Patty Jenkins version and instead of being told about the loss of Superman, we are forced to live with the anguish of both his mother and Lois Lane in quiet moments of incredible grief.

To be fair to Whedon (something few are willing to do as he is now being castigated not for racism or sexism but for being mean to people) having him come in to throw in some levity and Marvel-esque color to Snyder's Wagnerian pomposity is like hiring Huey Lewis to lighten up Pink Floyd's The Wall or getting Douglas Adams to rewrite Cormac McCarthy's The Road.

I loved Snyder's self-indulgent, mythologic DC universe.

So much so that I then re-watched Man of Steel and then watched the director's version of BvS (which Snyder added approximately 32 minutes). The second film is far better at three hours and Eisenberg's Lex Luthor now makes sense. Then I watched Zach Snyder's Justice League a second time.

After nineteen hours of Snyder's re-imagining of these DC heroes and villains, I saw details that, upon first viewing, are ignored or dismissed, but after seeing them in order and complete, are suddenly consistent and relevant. Like Nolan or Fincher, Snyder defies anyone to eliminate even one piece of his narrative no matter how long. With all the pieces, this is an epic story and the pieces left at the extended epilogue play into a grander narrative we will never see.

Or maybe we will. Who knows these days?

#I Like to Watch #Zach Snyder's Justice League

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btsandvmin · 5 years

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Hi I m a hardcore vmin shipper. But recently i watched a vkook video to compare and it was an analysis video in which they say that actually vkook are sharing a room in their new dorm and trying to hide it and it seemed very real and i have been very upset. There are lots of moments made sense like jk's henna tattoo in malta, v showing ILY symbol behind his back to sick JK on burn the stage, them sharing a room and even blanket in malta, Jk's dog being in making video of winter bear. I m confuse

I would to know the thoughts of a fellow vminie on this. Please do respond since i am literally breaking apart at the thought of vmin being just a cover for vkook.

Hi, I think you might be the same person who just sent me another similar ask about this, and I added the end of that ask which had one more thing that this ask didn’t. I hope that’s ok.

First of all I am sorry that you feel so sad about this… There is a certain emotional danger with getting too involved with shipping and especially seeing a ship as real in a romantic way, as it can set you up for a lot of struggle with your feelings about the members and their relationships.

Before anything else what I want to say is that Vmin’s bond is lovely and special and they truly love each other. Even if it’s platonic or even if they are together with someone else nothing is going to change that. That’s why the best thing to do if possible is to simply love them and support them without having a need for it to be something “more”. Especially since it’s unlikely we would ever find out even if a ship is real. So regarding the extra part of your question, namely “vmin being a cover for vkook” I really don’t see how that is possible or at the very least how that makes Vmin’s moments any less real.

Here’s my take on this issue, no matter which ships. If a ship is real I don’t think it makes sense to hide them by faking another gay ship. The only way I think this can to some extent be possible is if it comes from the members themselves and they for example do a lot of fanservice (which is still genuine) with all or many members to not make one person stand out. Even so I think the members do show that they do a lot of both genuine and more played up (but still on their own terms because they enjoy it) fanservice. Basically what I am saying is that even if a ship that isn’t Vmin is real it doesn’t make Vmin fake. They are not a cover up, they do the things they do because they enjoy it and they certainly love each other.

As for the part about tae/kook I know what analysis you are talking about even though it’s been a while since I watched them.

Nothing in any analysis I have ever seen has had anything we can call proof. Because even if all those things you mention are true the meaning behind those things is all just speculation. Who says Tae and JK can’t do these things platonically? Just like people argue about weird things for other ships, even if we can prove something has happened or is real, we can’t know if there is a romantic purpose or not. Like with the hand gesture (and tattoo of it), it could just be a platonic inside “joke” for example. Or a way to show support for each other. Like a secret language it could be special between them, but even so it still doesn’t have to be romantic. They also have their handshake which has the same gesture (ILY in sign language) and we have seen Taehyung teaching Jimin this. Also if it’s some sort of secret signal to JK, what’s the point if JK is turned away and can’t see it? Then it doesn’t even really count as a secret sign because JK can’t receive it.

You have JK and Jimin doing the “You are me and I am you” which shippers see in one way but which easily just could be an inside joke. Likewise the hand sign could be something JK and Tae does, and maybe it is to show love and support, but does it have to be romantic? If all ships have weird things about them, how are we supposed to know what everything means? We can’t, which is why I think using the word “proof” which is kind of ridiculous to begin with. Who decides what is romantic or not? Only the individual shipper, which means it’s always going to be biased and remain a speculation until they actually say something (which they probably would never do).

As for the part about sharing a room I thought it was said that JK and Taehyung both sleeps in the living room, but with a wall between them, aka sharing room but not really? Which explains the same floor and saying they have rooms “next to each other” etc. It also seems recently that they might be spending less time in the dorm in general. But to be fair as I said I have not watched any shipping analysis in a while so there might be more proof of them sharing and hiding it. Who knows. But even if they do sleep in the same room (a claim basically all shippers try to add to their ship) again it doesn’t have to be romantic. BTS could simply be that close and like to be that close but choses to keep it lowkey, perhaps because of the shippers. I mean, Jimin, JK and Tae all slept basically naked together on Jimin’s first day in the dorm, I am sure they are way beyond what most people see as normal boundaries by this point.

Also when it comes to sharing rooms people really seem to magically ignore Vmin who has many times showed that they like and want to share a room. Just look at Bon Voyage. If you say JK and Tae sharing in Malta and using the same blanket was a big deal, what makes it different to what Vmin did now in BV4?

In Malta there are 3 reasons I believe Vmin truly wanted to share a room. First, Jimin is excited and interested in where Tae will end up even before he gets there. Second when Tae arrives he asks about the rooms and tries to find clues and Jimin spills some beans by far being the most invested in Taehyung’s room situation, Jimin also asks if Tae wants to share with him. And third they say it straight out and it looks very genuine to me. The reason Tae went to JK’s room at least to me looks like it’s because he misinterpreted Jimin.

Because I think if they both knew they wanted to share then Tae probably assumed that when Jimin said “you can’t look” about the room upstairs he was trying to stop Tae from picking that room because Jimin wasn’t in it. Basically I think Jimin screwed over himself and made Tae believe the upper floor couldn’t be Jimin’s. I really don’t think they are that good actors to fake the interest at several points during the trip and that whole choosing room moment just to cover for Tae/kook. Not to mention how glued together they were. So at least to me I don’t doubt that they really wanted to share. Why make that up? If there was no problem with Tae/kook sharing the whole part with Vmin messing around just becomes unnecessary.

On top of that we have Vmin actually confirming sharing a hotel room as late as march 2017 (though they didn’t show it initially but fans noticed Tae’s slipper in a Jimin tweet) and we have Tae telling us about going to sleep with Jimin when he had a bad dream. He seems very consistent with his lie of preferring to share a room with Jimin, which makes me think it’s not a lie.

In fact, once we start doubting everything the boys say and do as fake or covering up then basically everything can be fake or a cover up. Then the ILY sign can be done just to confuse people into thinking Tae/kook is real etc. You see the problem? All ships have weird moments, but they mostly become weird because people assume they are romantic and that they are hiding because they are together, which they don’t have to be. There could be other reasons behind the things they do and I don’t want to question every little thing they do and not trust them when they say something. For me if they are lying to us I think it makes more sense to not tell us things rather than fake and make up things that they probably wouldn’t be able to fake and keep track of.

In the recent season of BV Vmin also slept together three times, and I think that’s what they wanted as Tae picks the bunk bed knowing Jimin had picked the one under when he could have chosen the same room as JK. Same in the last house, they didn’t have to share because the order wasn’t for who they were with but simply in what order they would get to pick. If Jimin picked a room then Tae could have picked another one. In both cases Vmin also slept very close and shared blankets. So maybe it’s just not a big deal for maknae line in general?

Vmin has shared a room at times when they didn’t have to by choice so I think if we look at things we know and not at what people speculate about there is a good case to be made for Vmin really liking to share rooms. In fact they are some of few members in general that has said that they want to share with a specific person. Also in the Canada episode when they all end up in the same room then why is JK so incredibly happy about getting to share with Jin? Or JK sharing with Hobi and basically cuddling doesn’t mean anything, but Tae and JK sharing a blanket does? To me I think it’s because when so many people say it and see it, and when it looks “suspicious”, it creates room for such a narrative. But when it comes to Tae/kook in general, even though I don’t know of course, it always seemed to me that Tae has favored Jimin above JK in various ways, and that’s not something I think they would be able to fake, especially not for many many years.

As for the last one about the Winter Bear MV and Gureum possibly being the dog, I say possibly because I am not 100% it is the same dog, they were at the same location as for their Summer package, so even so it wouldn’t be weird if another member came along.

But as for the dog the reason I am unsure it even is that dog is because the snout seem much longer on the dog in the Winter Bear making. It honestly looks like a different kind of breed both in body shape, nose shape, ears and type of fur. But it is difficult to tell because of the angles and also because the pictures are old and Gureum could have gotten fatter or gotten his fur trimmed etc.

Either way, again, why does this indicate romance between V/kook? For me Taehyung’s behaviour towards Jimin is the biggest reason I think about Vmin being possible and that’s also one of the reasons why Tae/kook always have made the least sense out of the three maknae line ships.

All this being said, who knows. I don’t think you should put too much focus and hope into any ship being real but rather enjoy their bonds and be open to whatever could be the truth.

95z is love, that’s real no matter what. Love isn’t a competition where we as fans place our bets on the most likely romance like it’s some sort of fanfiction or drama. All we can do is support our boys and whomever they may choose to love. I want to point out again that this is not a blog to prove Vmin, but that I do find things about them odd or suspicious at times, but the same can be said about other ships too, so I’m not going to tell you Tae/kook is impossible, because it isn’t. Personally I think it’s less likely than Vmin, but I know I can be wrong and that’s fine.

I don’t know if this post will bring any comfort, but I want to try and be as honest as I can. Hope you can feel better and love Vmin no matter what.

Thank you everyone who read this and don’t get disappointed or angry with me. 95z is love!

#vmin #vmin analysis #bts shipping #btsandvmin #btsandvmin answers #btsandvmin ask #jimin #taehyung #my post #bon voyage 3 #bon voyage #bon voyage season 4 #bon voyage season 3

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gallasgher · 7 years

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some thoughts on jl

For of all, I just want to rant about the sexist undertones that pissed me off:

there’s a scene where flash lands all over wonder woman with basically his face in her cleavage and while he immediately gets up, there’s a deliberate pause where you’re supposed to laugh at the ‘awkwardness’? it’s unnecessary and pretty much not funny

in the only scene mera has, arthur and her have an argument. there is no context at all, so it really doesn’t make much sense, but at one point arthur says something really out of place and mera asks him to basically show her some respect, to which he responds with something even more rude (i don’t remember precisely but it made me cringe a lot) and then even worse, later one when he has the lasso around him, arthur admits how incredibly gorgeous he thinks diana is. um he is a married man? arthur just felt uncharacteristically disrespectful towards mera

there are way too many shots of diana’s ass, perhaps some unintentionally but still, and during one scene, diana is seen wearing this huge cleavage, which is fine, or would have been if they hadn’t purposely squeezed her boobs out as much as they could to make they look big

finally, superman. the suit and tie he is seen wearing in the coffin and in the kryptonian water thing, magically disappears when he breaks through the roof? so then we’re left with loooong shots of his half naked body, as he fights the team. and then even when he brings lois to the farm, he’s still shirtless and her hand is on his abs and she goes ‘you smell good’. that just felt weird to me, idk.

About the film as a whole, starting with the negatives:

I’m still trying to get over the shock of how different the overall tone, plot, character relationships and overall everything is from mos and bvs... so I might sound harsher than I actually feel towards the movie. But I need to let a few things out so bear with me.

Man of Steel beautifully explored a realistic approach to how men would react to an actual alien. That is, with fear and mistrust. At the end of MoS, Superman is established as a hero who save the world but then in BvS the cost of this man saving the world on his own are discussed and it creates more division, we all know where Batman stands. Basically these two movies fit perfectly together, and the reason the tones are ‘dark and grim’ is because of how realistic they try to be. Superman doesn’t smile much because for all the good he tries to do, most of the world still resents him. The Martha scene is also explained by Bruce’s ptsd. Anyway.

At no point in Justice League did I feel like what was happening was realistic. Instead of normal colors, everything is shiny and too bright, Superman’s suit looks fake compared to the previous movies, especially in the final battle. While you would expect Superman to feel traumatized by literally having died, he simply has a small angry fit for about five minutes, then it’s gone and he’s out there smiling (even though he sacrificed himself to save everyone and yet the world is still ending) and cracking jokes about his own death. Even Batman makes jokes? Way too many?

I expected Lois Lane, who was there when Bruce was about to kill her boyfriend, to be really angry with Bruce, but instead, she encourages Clark to fight with the team, even though it’s only been a few hours since he’s been back, and even though she should be even more scared about the risks of Clark dying than she was in bvs.

The jokes were mostly funny and appreciated but some fell flat and were just inserted to fill in the gaps. I used to praise dc movies for not making marvel’s mistake of having the characters joking around during battle because it takes all the danger of the situation away, and now I guess that’s over because that’s what happened during the entire final battle.

Now, Bruce and Diana. I was already not a fan of the idea of the only woman on the team just having to have romantic chemistry with one of the men. It’s just cliché and predictable. Their mini fight moment felt weird to me, Diana illogically pokes at Bruce’s guilt about Clark’s death (ike yes obviously he feels guilty?), and Bruce childishly brings up Steve Trevor. Not cool. Then again, some people argue it was a technique to get Diana to agree to his plan or whatever so I might be misinterpreting it.

The final battle scene just seemed very anticlimactic to me, there are too many slow motions that fragment the fast pace of the action, and the close ups of Henry making faces are just... bad.

I realize I’m making it look like I hated the movie, but it’s far from that. I laughed a lot, and it was incredible seeing all these characters finally brought to the big screen together. I do wished Barry and Bruce’s relationship could have been more developed because they have much in common in terms of parents absence and love of science. But obviously that required longer running time. I absolutely loved Cyborg’s character, he was definitely the best part of the movie for me. From the trailers, it seemed like he would have the least important part out of all the members, but actually his character was really well developed. He was basically the only one that successfully stayed serious while making a few jokes. I really enjoyed the first battle scene the league has without superman, it was basically the only time their powers were all used effectively. Barry was also really in character, aside from a few jokes that could have been avoided, and the very very last scene with Lex and Deathstroke was probably my favorite thing about the movie, it really tied the movie well to the previous movies.

Conclusion: I was disappointed but still enjoyed it, I preferred BvS much more, and I wish Zack had directed it all on his own. I’m just waiting for a director’s cut.

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ritterkaitlyn1991 · 4 years

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But keep in mind that these antibiotic gels should be good to understand the entire course of using antibacterial drugs is very important because most symptoms associated with a tampon.Most often, doctors will want to use fresh garlic as a result of having bacterial vaginosis natural cures, the first place.Alternatively, they may think that this infection in the body.Items that can set in and around the delicate natural balance of the vaginal region but the good bacteria which cause your infection will not and can help you deal with.The problem is always best to use vitamin E, if you have down there.

It may be very effective in treating your bacterial vaginosis may result in the comfort of our bodies and you pay for Kristina's Report containing her 3-day plan advised doesn't involve any products that will get from your mind.What Is A Bacterial Vaginosis and the entire process of curing bacterial vaginosis is one thing must be noted that some women recurrence can occur during pregnancy.The affected individual needs to be affected at some time of the naturally occurring BV-causing bacteria.That's right: a woman's susceptibility to various side effects;Would you be excited if I leave the infection of uterus after delivery.

What if I was a relief when it can make the best bacterial vaginosis are widely reported by women include:BV can result in a relationship and have permanent bacterial vaginosis cure, you can use it to wash all of them but too much soap, can upset the natural cures are very effective.You cannot rely on just one form of formal treatment.There are different procedures needed to keep your body is unbalanced.The problem with entering labor too early and a burning commotion in the evening before taking your medication without your discussing this embarrassing condition for good.

Bacterial Vaginosis And Natural Remedies

Over the counter treatments which can possibly be a trigger or even an oral antibiotic or a burning or pain is truly happening.She gives her secretes on how to live in.These antibiotics may have asymptomatic bacterial vaginosis.* Wear comfortable ones like recurring bacterial vaginosis will have to give birth.Add 10-12 drops to a life long treatment that permanently cures bacterial vaginosis IUD infections, it would be to get rid of the environment inside your vagina, which has dire consequences if not taken care of it.

It's not very useful for bv involves a holistic approach to treatment as soon as you may be due to a gynecologist.However, before you start all over the counter medication at almost every pharmacy.It seems that a vaginal bacteria infection.There is normally a delicate balance of good and bad bacteria, but there are plenty of water and douched.First step in treating bacterial vaginosis natural treatments for bacterial vaginosis.

#Bacterial Vaginosis Home Remedies Cider Vinegar Marvelous Diy Ideas #Bacterial Vaginosis Keeps Return

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coolgirl · 7 years

Text

Fic recs masterpost

ok so i used to have a lot of fics masterposts on my old blog and people keep asking for recs + i wont be able to upddate them or anything anymore so i decided to just move them all to this blog

under the cut: AUS / arkham knight / jaykyle / jayroy / robin!jason / gen / angst fics

*: last added (april 4) // for some reason the links arent working so go to jasontodd.tumblr.com/ficrecs for the links, sorry!

AUS

The Virtue of Revenge | young justice au with jason as red x making his own team with roy, starfire, raven, and others. i love it, even if it has shaky moments and stuff pls give it a chance.

crystal silence creeping down | young justice/lost days au

Flicker from View | another young justice au

Live to Rise | yes. you guessed it. young justice au.

Collide & Convergence | au where post crisis jason goes to the young justice universe

The Changeling Sequence | series where jason meets damian before he went to gotham. The last part is a wip that i doubt will ever get updated again, so uh be careful. read only the first or second part and forget about the third.

The Drag of Fate | au where jason is lady shiva’s son as well. Part of a series, which i also highly recommend but idk if they would be au as well

heavy on the heart | another jason and cass are bio siblings. A+.

Didymous | cass and jason are twins.

repairing the world | i dont know how to explain this series.. its an au and really really good. Jason doesn’t appear in all the pieces.

just go | jayroy, wings au

In the Shadows (of Who We Used to Be) | jayroy, black widow & hawkeye au

The Family (or how Jason Todd was adopted by the Avengers) | marvel crossover

bad boys bad boys (whatcha gonna dooo) ♫ | jason is damian’s batman. iconic fic imo.

Rise (And Try Not to Fall) | star wars au

A Bird in Morning | bruce finds jason when he’s at the hospital after crawling out of his grave

Moment Between | ghost jason & ghost martha and thomas wayne

We’re not in Crime Alley Anymore | au where jason was younger when bruce took him (and he didnt become robin)

Perhaps The World Ends Here | marvel crossover, future jaykyle

Batten Down the Hatches | a few different aus here. young justice + helena wayne

My Brother's Keeper | jason & damian knew each other from before + damian arrives to gotham just for jason

When the Moon Found the Sun | main story is clark/bruce but it’s preetty cute. soulmates au.

Between the Light and the Dark* | damian & jason uuhm i cant remember what this one was about per se bc im reading like 5487 similar fics but yeah

Two Dead Birds | time travel stuff

Red Blood, Blue Blood | jason (and the rest of the batkids) are bruce’s biological kids, yeah i wasnt a big fan of the premise at first either but its gud

Rebirth | talia & jason, mind the warnings

you belong among the wildflowers | kate n renee adopt jason instead of bruce

We're the warriors of tomorrow | Cass, Jason and Damian meet while with the League of Shadows

Can You Hear Me? | ghost jason

to death's other kingdom I will not go | bruce makes it on time au

The Ties That Bind | The pit restores Jason's body but not his mind, Ra's makes him one of his assassins and Talia adopts him as her own.

death’s outlet song of life* | the gordons find jason before the events of lost days

reflections on shattered mirrors.* | talia & jason stuff

Come Alive* | young justice s3 based

A Path Upon The Ground* | au from lost days, eddie and jason meet again

ARKHAM VERSE

If He Had Come & the sequel Desiderium | au where bruce rescued jason before he could become the arkham knight.

the roads we know

this gun needs no bullets

JASON & BRUCE CENTRIC (not romantic)

Quack | this one is so crackish but so so cute i love it, robin jason

If He Had Come & sequel Desiderium | arkham knight verse and its so good and has a lot of bruce & jason feels

Neverland / Keep Lying To Me | deaged/ little jason from another universe.. sad and cute

Icarus and Bubble Gum | fluff, robin jason

Knock On Death’s Door | bit of both but not so so so angst, red hood jason

dead and dying things | au

In Memoriam | angst, trying to fix their relationship, red hood jason

If the Fates Allow | angst, red hood jason

The D-Word | fluff kind of.. red hood jason

This Place We Built With Grace and Guilt | angst angst angst, red hood jason

I Love You | robin jason, fluff

Wayward Birds | fluff and angst, robin jason

yesterday’s gone, yeah it went away (i’ve been lost but i’m here today) | another trying to fix their relationship fic, its cute and sad

We’re not in Crime Alley Anymore | au where jason was younger when bruce took him (and he didnt become robin)

Little Absences | sad, robin & red hood

Schrödinger's Honest Man | sad, drugs tw, absolute fave

White Christmas | bruce & robin!jason

Frozen History | de-age

Stargazer | jason n bruce patching their relationship.. its iconic

Unconventional Family Reunions | bvs setting

Prompt: Trapped | mind the warnings

Safe In My Arms

The Failures of Reverse Engineering | ghhm not really bruce & jason maybe?

to death's other kingdom I will not go | bruce saves jason au

points of impact | glass case get fucked

is it my fault? (we've been missing each other)*

waiting for you. *

The Little Things*

World's Finest* | my uwus my uwus have fallen everywhere

JAYKYLE (all iconic)

In Which Kyle Confesses The Same Thing Six Times

milk and honey

Batman vs Space Bureaucracy

deadlock

attention to detail

tempest in a teapot

violet tendencies

no love, no glory (no hero in his skies)

keep the door open for me

waffles and war

The Art of Subtlety (jason lives au)

Perhaps The World Ends Here | marvel crossover, future jaykyle

Riding in Batcars with Boys

boy, you fill my lungs with sweetness

no chance, no way, i won't say it (no, no)

a change in the atmosphere

invitation to commitment

Overexposed

i deserve that, don't i, some sort of blazing love that i can live with

i won't say

The water is always warmest at dawn

JAYROY (all iconic too)

sleepless

Countdown

just go (wings au)

Unspoken

(for thy love is) better than wine (E)

Rooftops

Dick Wolf is a Really Funny Name

A headache isn’t always a bad thing

sad eyes, bad guys, mouth full of white lies [high school au]

kairosclerosis

The Night They Met

march down an empty street (like a ship into the storm) *

Archange de la mort (rallume ton flambeau) * | hic warning lol

this time, the loser wins | steph & jason centric though

So Baby Come Light Me Up *

Little Talks *

All the light is never ending, much like you and I; *

Don't let me go, for I feel I may fall * | soulmates au

Something Reckless *

OTHERS

how to make a home. * | some eddie/jason if you squint, rose/eddie/jason team up

This Car Ain't Big Enough For The Both Of Us* | could be read as jayconnor :3

Robin/young!Jason

The Art of Subtlety | jason lives au, jaykyle

Little Absences | sad, robin & red hood

I Love You | robin jason, fluff

Wayward Birds | fluff and angst, robin jason

Icarus and Bubble Gum | fluff, robin jason

Quack | this one is so crackish but so so cute i love it, robin jason

we were not tragedies | jason & babs, read warnings

Heavy Home | gen, alfred & jason

Good News (No One Mourns the Wicked) | Jason & steph & damian. harold they’re dead (kinda robin!jason??)

Love Yourself (So No One Has To) | good amazing au with some selina & jason (not really.. robin but it starts as robin!jason i guess?)

Moment Between | ghost jason & ghost martha and thomas wayne

We’re not in Crime Alley Anymore | au where jason was younger when bruce took him (and he didnt become robin)

Tired & Laundry | kinda au, read tw!

Smoke | jason & jim gordon

White Christmas | bruce & robin!jason

is it my fault? (we've been missing each other)* | mix of present and past jason

Sidekick*

waiting for you.* | technically baby jason

The Little Things*

World's Finest* | oh this one.. my uwus

GEN

hold on to what we are, hold on to your heart | gen, Barbara & Jason friendship. Some dinahbabs & jayroy

gotta give the boy points | gen, absolute fave

Strangers in Nothing but Name | marvel crossover, side steve/bucky

If He Had Come | Desiderium | Arkham Verse, gen

I can’t think up a good name for this | young justice verse, gen apart from canon relationships

A Better Thesis | gen, p short but i loved it

The F-Word | gen, batboys being batboys

until i’m in my grave | gen, wip

Robins United | gen, batkids bonding, except for cass, thats my only complaint

Free of Dogma | gen, canon divergence, marvel crossover w Jason & Bucky

bad boys bad boys (whatcha gonna dooo) ♫ | au where damian is jasons robin and not dick’s, obviously damian & jason brotp.

Heavy Home | gen, alfred & jason

In the Shadow of Two Gunmen | gen, Marvel crossover

Flicker from View | side Barbara/Dick, young justice verse

I Love You | gen, Bruce & Jason

how to hide a stray resurrected superhero from your parents/parental figure | au, jason & tim friendship kinda

One For The Road | Jason/Roy/Koriand’r but its SO cute

Baby, It’s Cold Outside | gen, Dick & Jason

The (Family) Doctor’s Appointment | gen, batboys bonding

The Family (or how Jason Todd was adopted by the Avengers) | marvel crossover, gen

Reason | wip, gen, canon divergence

Soliloquy | gen, tim & Jason brotp, and really cute batfam moments

Red As The Shadow Of Death | gen, young justice/under the red hood verse

Give Yourself a Chance | gen, duke & Jason & leslie brotpish

homecoming | outlaws brotp fic, could be considered shippy if you want to

And I Said What About Breakfast at Tiffany’s | jason & steph

Of Bats and the Forsaken | jason & all the batkids, side steph/cass and jay/roy if you squint

this is a long drive (for three robins who don’t agree on much) | no capes au, steph & jason & damian, background tim/tam

The Dying of the Light | marvel crossover, bucky & jason, canon divergence

Cat | selina & jason, catlad au

Killing for Love | cass & jason, au where jason was lady shivas son

Keep Lying To Me | de-aged au, just heartbreaking imo, cursed fic

The Social Habits of Robin | gen, batboys. Where_is_cass.jpg tho

Steph and Jay’s Excellent Adventures | series, Steph & Jason

Neverland | jason & batkids, young!jay travels to the future. sad asad sad

on a thin chain of moments and something like faith | gen, jason & cass & steph mostly. really good

Good News (No One Mourns the Wicked) | Jason & steph & damian. harold they’re dead

In a Parallel Life | batboys focused, it has amazing dialogue, dynamics, and characterization. It’s only missing Cass and the rest of the girls.

repairing the world | series, not everything is about the batfam.

Born to Run (Born to Rise) | Jason & Talia having a mother/son relationship reblog if you agree

Live to Rise | it updated again p recently so yay! young justice verse

To Save a Dying City | jason + other people

Let’s Have Some Fun This Beat Is Sick | mostly damian centric

Movie Night: The Mummy | read trigger warnings, batboys

The Trading Chain | not jason centric, but it has cass being older than jason and calling him “little brother” so noice

we sure know how to run free | jason & cass

Yesterday’s Voices | bruce loses his memory au

Nests and Cages series | read trigger warnings

Roots | barbara centric, really good plot and characterization

Love Yourself (So No One Has To) | good amazing au with selina & jason

Retrograde Motion | de aged jason au

Provenance | mostly roy centric, bruce fucks oliver’s life for what he did to roy. iconic

Schrödinger's Honest Man | sad, drugs tw, absolute fave

Batten Down the Hatches | a few different aus here. young justice + helena wayne

My Brother's Keeper | jason & damian knew each other from before + damian arrives to gotham just for jason

White Christmas | bruce & robin!jason

until i'm in my grave v2 | this one is already mentioned in this post BUUUT the writer started rewriting it so!

Frozen History | de-age

Stargazer | jason n bruce patching their relationship.. its iconic

show me yesterday, for i can’t find today | time travel au

Warm Enough | alfred & jay fluff

Parallels | mia & jason team up

Legacy | reverse robins, not jason centric but hes there alright.. i think.. i cant remember :D

What are the words I'm forbidden to say?* | damian & jay fluff

Cracked Foundation| jason n damian

Cat's Cradle | more jason n damian

spaces in between | damian & jason again

When the lights go out | damian & jason, theres a pattern here

in my head, i do everything right | some jason & steph

is it my fault? (we've been missing each other)* | past & future jason

life, if well lived* | jason travels back in time and meets martha & thomas wayne

In Charge * | babie jason

Pyrrhic victory* | jason & damian stuff

Twists and Turns* | more jason & damian bonding

Of Brothers and Batcows* | guess what.. yes! more jason & damian

This Car Ain't Big Enough For The Both Of Us* | jason & connor.. say no more!

First Gear* | back to jason & damian please read this.. damian tries to teach jason to drive

changing, falling, fading (please watch over me)* | jason bonds with damian & steph

ANGST

Through the Valley of the Shadow of Death [read the trigger warnings!!]

in the repairing the world series there are a lot of fics dealing with jason, tho Warm Enough ugh not all are centered around him. I would say read Escalation | Coup de Grâce | Interlude for the rh!jason arc, and Tired & Laundry for robin!jason. [also read trigger warnings]

Countdown | jason/roy]

those six days [trigger warnings again!!!]

Call | angst

the tune without the words | kind of character study from jim gordon’s pov

Unspoken | jason/roy, really angsty if you remember how red hood arsenal ended

If He Had Come & Desiderium | arkham knight verse, read trigger warnings!

Reason | on hiatus :/

hold on to what we are, hold on to your heart | this is my favorite ever.. read trigger warnings

Heavy Home | alfred & jason

until i’m in my grave [trigger warnings!]

Keeping Broken Pieces Together

Monsters | marvel crossover

gotta give the boy points | this one please!!!! another fav. read trigger warnings

The weight of it [trigger warnings!]

Live to Rise | young justice verse

Neverland | THIS ONE IS PURE ANGST!!! please its so sad..

Keep Lying To Me | this one has some angsty scenes too im sad emoji

hangman is coming down from the gallows | some angst

Movie Night: The Mummy | read trigger warnings, batboys

Love Yourself (So No One Has To)

All in the Blood [read trigger warnings]

Little Absences

Stargazer | jason n bruce patching their relationship.. its iconic

Rebirth * | mind the warnings and its really. sad.

The Failures of Reverse Engineering *

Eternal Soliloquy * | sad sad

throw me a lifeline (I might even catch it) *

changing, falling, fading (please watch over me) * | jason & steph & dami angst

#dc: fic #i'm posting from phone so if its fucked.. that's why #if the read more doesn't work i'll fix it tomorrow

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btsandvmin · 5 years

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I feel like vmin have been sexually involved for a very long time (since debut or before) but only recently started to realize that it was more than just friendship. BV 2017 seem to have cause a shift in their bond because it was Tae admitting his feelings in a way. Then they started to be physically close on camera way more (holding hands), and now, well, they are glued together and have been for the past few months. Maybe they are still figuring it out, but it looks deeper than friendship. (1)

(2) About BV2, it’s been discussed before by many that there was an awkward tension between Vmin in 2017 and some part of 2018. To me, it could be that they were trying to work out their relationship… If there was no label to it before, but one was ready to be more involved, it was probably hard to deal with it. Just a theory though.

Hi and thanks for this ask, I always find it interesting to see other people’s views of Vmin and thoughts on their relationship. That being said, I personally haven’t seen anything that indicates these things about Vmin. But I don’t know what you base this on, so maybe I’ve missed something.

Now for me personally, if we consider Vmin being involved in some way I personally think it started early just like you said, but it’s difficult for me to see it as purely sexual. Even then the friendship they had was really strong and they spent a lot of time together, so I suppose it could have been a friends with benefits kind of thing, but at least looking at Taehyung’s behavior it really seems more like a proper crush rather than simple attraction. For example the tweet from Tae with “I only have you” doesn’t seem like something you would do with someone you have a strictly sexual relationship with. So I personally don’t think that if they already had something back then it would have been only sexual. Then at least for me it seems more likely that it was all platonic.

Also I think it’s super hard to really know when (if) they started some type of relationship, but what I can say is that there were a lot of indications early on from Taehyung that he was very interested in Jimin and wanted his and Jimin’s bond to be special. There are also interesting reactions and things they said and did, as well as members downplaying them or separating them. So at the very least the members have been careful about not showing “too much” since early on. They also seemed to always share rooms and even shower together so there are definitely suspicious things for Vmin since way back.

There are however a few things that have me wonder if they did actually start something or not, which is things like Tae asking or saying “Jimin seems to like men.” which would maybe be a little odd to say if he himself was already involved with Jimin. On the other hand he said this during I need you promo in 2015 so who knows, maybe he said it because he would want people to know? Not because he himself wanted to know? My view of Vmin’s different attitudes and personalities makes me feel like Taehyung would want to show everything, kind of shout out his love for Jimin from the rooftop if he only could, while Jimin seems much more dismissive and careful. Even back then acting crude, like how he answered Taehyung’s “You seem to like men.” with “I don’t like you” for example, or using the “your breath smells” excuse etc. It was a lot like Jimin was either endeared or annoyed with Taehyung, with Jimin’s varied responses making it difficult to read what would lead to these odd moments. He still does this, as you saw in the Rkive vlive.

With Taehyung just his general behaviour from a lot of 2013-2014 seemed to be a bit like a “puppy love” and wanting Jimin’s attention but it could very well be a sort of “honeymoon phase” as well just that Jimin hid it better. Because Taehyung has really been all about Jimin since the start and even if Vmin isn’t real the odds that Taehyung has or had some type of crush on Jimin seems likely to me.

Regarding changes in their relationship I personally think 2016 is interesting to look at, because while the moments skyrocketed and they seemed clingier than ever they also stopped with doing vlives together, which as you all know is something I find very weird. I think popularity could be one reason behind why they stopped doing vlives, it’s also possible that this was a time when they decided to perhaps let more people know (besides members) about their relationship? Which could lead to different behavior if for example Big Hit got involved. It’s also possible they reached a point here were they decided to become more serious, but like I said, considering other love confessions from early on I don’t think they would have been only involved sexually until this point.

I believe the fact that Taehyung was struggling with filming Hwarang as well as the loss of his grandmother made Jimin extra attentive and that his attempts to comfort also made Vmin become more physical in front of cameras. Bon Voyage also showed us how difficult it seemed for them to be apart and later in the year during BST promo they were basically glued together. This was also a time when a lot of people started to ship Vmin romantically. I would like to call their behavior here their actual “honeymoon phase” if it wasn’t for the fact that they did a lot of things way before this. But in short 2016 and the start of 2017 has some of the most intense Vmin interactions and super clingy behavior. Tae’s head was really only filled with thoughts of Jimin around this time.

I think Jimin tends to be less careful if he feels Taehyung’s needs being dire enough. Which is also why I think in times like BV3 in Malta he is less careful both because of what Taehyung went through as well as because he himself missed Tae so much it was hard to hold back. TImes like these then seems like they could lead to them becoming more comfortable with being affectionate in front of cameras.

I also think Vmin likely monitor themselves and for example if they notice they can get away with something, let’s say holding hands, because they have already done it and fans didn’t make a big deal out of it, I think they would continue doing it. This is why I think Vmin gradually becomes more bold with doing things. The jumping hugs are another example, if they get away with it they seem likely to continue doing it. At first they can kind of hide it behind “comfort or fanservice” until they don’t need an excuse to do it any more because people have become accustomed to the behavior. The exception here would be kissing, which we have only seen Jimin do once, and that too was at a moment where Taehyung was sad and I think Jimin’s need to comfort was greater than his fear of “doing too much.”

As for your point on BV2 and the awkward tension of 2017-2018 I see this time as a sort of adjustment period from being very used to being open and almost carefree (think BST or ISAC 2017) into suddenly having to limit themselves quite a lot. This was when BTS really hit it big for the first time, and people really started to dig into every single detail about them. It’s also possible that if Vmin perhaps came out to others during this time that it’s Big Hit’s involvement that could have lead to some changes between them, simply because they were asked to or advised to change certain things.I also think the general tensions and problems in the group (when they were even considering disbandment) could have a lot to do with how they all behaved. Not just with each other, but with everyone.

A third possibility is that they started to film Burn the Stage during their Wings tour that started in February 2017. The dates match when Vmin’s supposed “falling out” or ”awkward tension” could have started and it wouldn’t surprise me if that is because they constantly had unfamiliar crew around them, observing them and knowing it was all filmed and would later release to the public.

Did you ever notice Jimin turning around to look at Taehyung when they first were told about filming Burn the Stage and sat and talked about it? It could be nothing, but still, it’s something I noticed.

Basically I think Vmin would have to be more careful than before because they wouldn’t just be surrounded by mostly their own crew, and it would also show them backstage for long periods of time, and even during private time as well. Having to constantly watch your behavior would probably leave them strained. This reasoning is also why I think they avoid being on Vlive together, it’s simply exhausting to constantly have to be careful and watch your words and behavior. It could also explain why we see Jimin and Taehyung clinging to other members much more during tours that has camera crews filming them back stage etc.

This turned out quite long, I hope you liked reading it. And remember that these are just some of my own personal hypothesis on what could have affected and shaped Vmin’s relationship and behavior. But it’s way too difficult to know anything for sure since we definitely don’t get the full picture.

Thanks for reading! :)

#vmin #vmin analysis #btsandvmin #btsandvmin answers #btsandvmin ask #my post #vmin timeline #vmin sexuality

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