#this is why I dislike most Vegeta fans

[sweetescapeartist]

So, I looked through Rule34 to see if there was any new Krillin & Android 18 art (there was like... 1 new piece) and I noticed that somebody has added the "Vegeta" tag to art that didn't originally have that tag. A lot of drawings of 18 with a guy that's supposed to be anonymous now has the "Vegeta" tag. (Mostly 18, but art of a few other DB gals now have the "Vegeta" tag too.)

There's one person that comes to mind who probably did this. A certain someone who at times does the line art & colouring of others art. A certain someone who purposefully lies about Krillin to make Vegeta look better. A certain someone who tries to make the term "Bae-teen" associated with him despite it not originating from him. You know, the one who often commissions art of 18 cheating on Krillin with Vegeta & other Saiyans while he lies about the fandom's hate for Krillin? Yup, that guy.

Seems like a certain somebody is trying to forcefully influence ppl to join him in his hatred for Krillin.

"Kriller Time!" chapter 2 was originally going to be Oolong getting cucked by Krillin... but, sorry Oolong.

NOW I'm moving Vegeta from Chapter 3 to Chapter 2! It's Vegeta's turn next!

Time for me to NTR the DB fandom.

[duhragonball]

Dragon Ball Minus

So I’ve been covering the Jaco manga, but there’s one last chapter to go over, and that’s the Dragon Ball Minus feature at the end of the collected edition.  The finale of the Jaco story revealed that Jaco was sent to Earth to intercept a Saiyan invader, which turned out to be baby Goku.  So Jaco was a prequel to Dragon Ball all along, and now Dragon Ball Minus turns the clock back even further to show how and why Goku was sent to Earth in the first place. 

So let’s unpack this a bit.  In 1990, Toei produced the TV Special “Dragon Ball Z: A Lonesome, Final Battle – The Father of Z Warrior Son Goku, who Challenged Freeza.”  The English dub shortened this to “Bardock: Father of Goku”.  If you’re not familiar with it, I wrote about it here.  The special was a grim tale of Goku’s father, a brutal, uncaring cog in Frieza’s war machine.  Before he dies, one of Bardock’s enemies curses him by giving him visions of the future. This allows Bardock to see horrifying scenes of Frieza destroying the Saiyan homeworld, as well as the life of his infant son growing up on Earth. By the time Bardock understands what’s happening, it’s already too late.  But as Bardock dies with his homeworld, he takes solace in a vision of his son growing up to confront Frieza someday. 

It’s a darker story than most of Dragon Ball.  While DBZ had gotten very violent, it was still pretty clear who the good guys were.  But Bardock was an antihero at best.  I’m pretty sure the only purpose of the psychic powers was to make the character at least a little sympathetic.  By giving him a peek at his own destiny, you can have Bardock confront his own mortality, and share in the audience’s appreciation for his son.  Without those insights, Bardock would just be one Saiyan among many, with nothing to make him stand out besides a familiar haircut and a famous son that he doesn’t even know.

The story goes that the special left such an impression on Akira Toriyama that he decided to canonize Bardock by writing him into the manga.  When Frieza first meets Goku on Namek, Frieza finds Goku’s face somewhat familiar, and he recalls that one Saiyan who opposed him right to the very end.  So even though the Bardock TV Special was anime-only, I think a lot of fans considered it to be canon, since Toriyama had included the scene of Bardock opposing Frieza from the very end of the special. 

However, to quote Toriyama himself:

“I really like the story of Bardock, Goku’s father. It’s quite dramatic, and the kind of story ‘I absolutely wouldn’t draw’ if it were me. It was like watching a different kind of Dragon Ball in a good way, so I thought it was nice.”  --Akira Toriyama, Interview on October 5, 1995, published in Daizenshuu v.6.

So he enjoyed the Bardock special, but if he had to create his own story about Bardock and the destruction of Planet Vegeta, then it would be very different from “Father of Goku”, which he “absolutely wouldn’t draw”.  Not because he disliked the special, but because it’s just not the kind of story that he would tell. 

I say this because I think there were a lot of fans who took umbrage with Dragon Ball Minus for changing Bardock’s backstory from the lore we got in the special. But Toriyama practically warned us all way back in 1995 that if he ever did a Bardock story of his own, it would almost certainly be very different. 

So now that we’ve established that, let’s get down to business.  In this story, Bardock is killing aliens just like he did in the TV special, only he only seems to have one other Saiyan backing him up.  That unnamed Saiyan gets a call on his scouter, and he relays the message to Bardock: All Saiyans have been ordered to return to Planet Vegeta.  Bardock is immediately suspicious, since this seems to be an unprecedented move.  The Saiyans have been working for Frieza for some time now, and they’ve been spread out, conquering various planets for him.  Why would Frieza recall all of them back home at the same time?  When he sees Frieza’s spaceship in orbit around Planet Vegeta, he gets even more suspicious. 

Frieza’s visiting the planet because he’s had his henchmen talking to the Saiyan locals, asking them about their folklore.  His goons dismiss the tales of the Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God, but Frieza refuses to overlook even the slightest possibility of a Saiyan growing powerful enough to oppose him.  As it is, he knows the Saiyans are too proud and willful to be truly loyal to him, so he feels justified in wiping them out before they inevitably turn against him. 

This... might just be my favorite character moment for Frieza.  A lot of DBZ was devoted to explaining and re-explaining his decision to destroy the Saiyans.  His reasons generally boil down to the following:

1) If the entire Saiyan population revolted, they could pose a threat to his rule (Early Namek Saga, the Bardock TV Special)

2) Frieza’s afraid of a Super Saiyan emerging from the Saiyan population and overthrowing him (Late Namek Saga, and Dragon Ball Minus)

3) Beerus wanted to destroy the Saiyans but was too lazy to make the trip, so he commanded Frieza to do it for him.  (Battle of Gods)

What sets this story apart from the others, though, is that we get to see just how Frieza heard about the Super Saiyan Legend in the first place.  He asked around.  And apparently this isn’t the first planet where he’s done this sort of thing.  “I’m sure they’re just the usual heroic legends we hear about all the time.”

At some point, it hit me that Frieza has an interest in this sort of thing.  Not that he’s particularly fond of alien legends, but the characters in those stories the only thing that can possibly challenge his power.  So he seems to make a point out of learning about those mythical heroes whenever he can, just so he can weigh the risks of the legends coming true.

And maybe if the Saiyans were more devoted to him, like Zarbon and Dodoria, maybe Frieza might have chosen to ignore the Super Saiyan tale.  But he knows the Saiyans hate his guts, and he probably only kept them around as long as he did because his father had gotten so much use out of them.  And he might have been willing to keep the Saiyans alive a while longer, but then you have to factor in Beerus’s command to destroy them.  So in this story, Frieza asks if all the Saiyans are back home yet, and his men report that most of them will return within a month, but they’ll have to wait for stragglers if they plan to get them all.  Frieza won’t do it, though.  He plans to destroy Planet Vegeta one month later, and he can deal with the handful of survivors later.  He can just tell them Planet Vegeta got hit by a meteor. 

The story doesn’t spell it out, but I think Frieza accelerated his plans because he didn’t want to risk angering Beerus.  Not that Beerus was going to show up a month later to check his work, but Frieza had no way of knowing for sure, so better to blow 99% of the Saiyans away as soon as possible. 

And this is what saved Saiyans like Vegeta and Raditz.  Well, that, and the fact that Vegeta had no intention of obeying the order to return home.  Maybe he had the same suspicions as Bardock, or he just felt like he should defy Frieza wherever possible.  In this case, he could get away with ignoring the order, so he chose to ignore the order. 

As for Bardock, he finds his wife Gine chopping meat in his home village.  The narration informs us that the Saiyan population is only several thousand strong.  They’re warlike, so their population doesn’t increase too easily.  That sounds kind of vague, but interpret it as you will.  Bardock embraces Gine and asks about their children, which I think rubbed some fans the wrong way.  Gine wasn’t even in the TV Special, so the idea of Bardock being a loving husband and father bugged some people.  Hell, I think some fans can’t stand the idea of Bardock being anything other than a relentless badass.

Gine explains that Raditz has already been sent out into the field, with Prince Vegeta as his partner.  As for Kakarot, he’s been in an incubation tank for three years, and it’s almost time to take him out.  As he looks at Kakarot, Bardock resolves to steal a space pod and send the boy to another planet. 

Now, this also bugged some fans, because this directly contradicts what Raditz told Goku about how and why he ended up on Earth.  According to Raditz, Saiyan babies were tested for their combat potential, and those with the worst scores were sent to relatively defenseless planets, where they could either die alone or conquer with a bit less of a disadvantage.  Saiyan elites, like Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta, were allowed to remain on Planet Vegeta and receive proper training and resources, so that they could fight as part of the Saiyan military. 

Dragon Ball Minus flips that idea on its head.  Yes, Raditz was correct about the Saiyan practice of “infiltration babies”, as Gine puts it.  That is a thing Saiyans do with their weakest children.   However, in this case, Bardock is using that practice without permission.  Instead of waiting around for the authorities to decide where to assign baby Kakarot, Bardock is going to send him to Earth, just to keep him safe from anything Frieza might be planning. 

And, perhaps unintentionally, these differences provide a critique of “Father of Goku.”  Like I said earlier, the only real purpose of giving Bardock visions of the future was to make him sympathetic.  He could foresee Frieza’s treachery and realize he was doomed, but he could also foresee his son thriving on Earth, eventually rising up to avenge his people. 

But Dragon Ball Minus cuts the Gordian Knot in half with a sword.  Why does Bardock need psychic powers to predict Frieza destroying the Saiyans?  The Saiyans have resented Frieza from the beginning, so why would they expect anything less than treachery from him?  Bardock doesn’t need the gift of prophecy to figure this out.  He just needs to pay attention to what’s going on around him.  And as for his son, maybe Bardock could just care about Kakarot from the beginning. He doesn’t need to see visions of Goku growing up on Earth.  He can just see the baby floating helplessly in an incubator and then imagine what will happen to him if he’s still on Planet Vegeta when Frieza makes his move. 

And this might irritate some Bardock fans, but at least this way he gets some agency and character development.   The dirty little secret about “Father of Goku” is that Bardock is a puppet of fate in that special.  The Kanassan is destined to give him the curse of foresight.  And once Bardock has that curse, he’s powerless to prevent Planet Vegeta’s destruction.  He sees Goku’s future, and seems to approve, but he has no control over that either.  Others make the decision to launch Goku into space, and so everything Bardock does in the special is futile. 

Sure, “Father of Goku” kind of works because of that futility.  I’d argue that “futility” is a theme of the story. That’s what makes it dark.  But I prefer Toriyama’s take, where Bardock suspects that he’s already doomed, but he still gets to make a choice to do something about it.  By sending Goku to Earth, Bardock gets to make a difference, even if he doesn’t realize how big a difference it will be. 

As they prepare the pod for launch, Gine asks why they don’t just all leave the planet in pods, and Bardock explains that Frieza would just track them down with scouters.  Kakarot, with his miniscule power level, can escape, but they’re trapped here, on Planet Vegeta, while they wait to find out what Frieza has planned for them all.  The two of them say their goodbyes, and Gine makes plans to contact Raditz to tell him where they’ve sent Kakarot.  She also promises to retrieve the boy if Bardock’s fears turn out to be unfounded.  But we know how that will turn out. 

So they watch the pod leave in an emotional scene. 

But the launch has not gone unnoticed.  The Galactic King has discovered the Saiyan invader heading toward Earth, so he orders Jaco to intercept it.   He clearly isn’t too concerned about the matter, though, since he regards Jaco as one of his least reliable Patrollers, and the Earth as a backwater planet of little importance.  I guess he sort of cares, but not enough to send the best.

But we already saw how Jaco handled that mission.  He missed Kakarot’s arrival on Earth, and he was adopted by Son Gohan instead, and grew up to become Son Goku, who would confront Frieza on Namek.  And now you know.... the rest of the story.   Paul Harvey... Good Day?

So that wraps up Jaco.  The only real issue I see with all of its retcons to Dragon Ball lore is the fact that Jaco has such close ties to the Brief family, and he even gives Dr. Brief his spaceship to reverse engineer, and yet this never came up in the Namek Saga, when the good guys desperately needed a way to travel through space.   Instead they use Kami’s old spaceship, which took a month to make the trip, and then Dr. Brief reverse engineered Goku’s space pod, which made the journey in six days.  Maybe Jaco’s ship was slower?  Or they just forgot about it?  Oh well. 

I’ll be taking a break for a couple weeks, and when I get back, we’ll star in on Dragon Ball Super. Until then, keep watching the skies.

[beevean]

1, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 12, 13, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, and 25 for Sonic <3

On one hand, thank you so much for asking me about Sonic, it's like everyone forgot about my main fandom :(

On the other... why tho.

the character everyone gets wrong

Shadow, easy. Sonic and Eggman too... and Amy... and Tails... yeah pretty much everyone... but poor Shadow is the unfortunate victim of being hugely popular and hugely misunderstood due to inane takes that spread like wildfire.

Shadow is not an edgy boy (okay his game pushes it). Shadow is not a poow widdle blorbo who only needs to cry. Shadow did not suffer like a dog on the ARK. Shadow is not "Vegeta". Shadow does not monologue about who he is and what he thinks (neither does Sonic btw, coughcoughidwcough). There should be a law that you cannot analyze Shadow's character if you haven't at least read his script in Sonic Battle.

3) screenshot or description of the worst take you've seen on tumblr

How am I supposed to choose????? Have you seen this fandom D: (no, you haven't, lucky you. well i did.)

Among all, I get the urge to stab myself in the spleen every time I read something about Muh Mandates and Sonic Should Be Allowed to Cry and Eggman is Such A Good Dad to Sage. Or the majority of posts gushing about IDW, especially if the topic is Sonic's Principles :^)

6) which ship fans are the most annoying?

Sonadow, one of the main reasons it annoys me so much. Although some Sonamy fans push it, and I like that ship.

7) what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

hahahaha

Well, I used to dislike Shadow precisely due to his popularity, but nowadays I've warmed up to the guy. He's cool. Just... I don't get the hype.

I guess Surge is a better example. She's very annoying in canon, but what really ruins her is the amount of adoration she garnered. Y'all like her simply for the aesthetic, I checked, because she has a pitiful amount of fanfictions that actual star her as a character. (one of them is mine, and I don't even like her. Just sayin'.)

Oh, and I will never be objective about Sage. Sorry. She's bland and on her own inoffensive, but her association with Eggdad ruined her for me.

8) common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

That ShTH is a bad game >:( it's funny y'all are just mean.

Again, I can't choose. This fandom has just... so many Takes. I guess I'll go with "Shadow was turned into Vegeta", which is... factually untrue, outside of the Boom series.

9) worst part of canon

Can't choose, honestly. Maybe splitting Classic Sonic into a different character, instead of simply keeping him an older design for Sonic. Boy, the discourse that it caused...

12) the unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them

Hmm. To be fair I mostly like popular characters. I'd say that now I like Elise much more than I used to, but then again she's becoming more popular. So... Infinite, maybe? I like the dude, he's both cool and pathetic and I have no idea how he manages to do that. Sick theme too. And he's voiced by Liam O'Brien and his horniness for violence shows :'D

And you know what? Zor. Zor is the funniest of the Deadly Six. He's self aware and that elevates him. Y'all are too mean to the Deadly Six in general, but Zor is the one who deserves it less.

13) worst blorboficiation

Shadow, again. This poor dude just isn't seen for who he is.

15) that one thing you see in fanart all the time

Can't think of anything, because I'm not stupid and I don't go look for fanart :'D I dunno, worst thing I'm seeing recently is Eggdad content.

16) you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

Why do you need Sonic and Shadow to be crybabies. Emotions aren't only expressed through tears. Don't blame SEGA for a perfectly normal writing choice. You don't need to shove angst up their asses to fulfill what's essentially your preference.

18) it's absolutely criminal that the fandom has been sleeping on...

KNUXAMY. THEY'RE SO CUTE. THEY HAVE LESS THAN 30 FICS ON AO3. WHY.

19) you're mad/ashamed/horrified you actually kind of like...

Sonegg, except I've been liking it for so long that the shame has simply become resignation. I know why it's a common nOTP and I absolutely respect the people who think it's vomit-inducing, but I will defend it to my grave as being not as bad as commonly thought.

... does being an unironic ShTH enjoyer count, too?

20) part of canon you found tedious or boring

Frontiers. I swear that that story is completely useless, nothing happens except getting beaten over the face with pointless references and Ian Flynn self-sucking over how better he is than Pontaff, no I'm still not over "then I'm wildly inconsistent" :') and while '06's story is better because at least shit happens (until the game erases itself from existence), it's still a dull, boring, confusing mess to sit through, especially in English because they all sound bored out of their skull.

21) part of canon you think is overhyped

Frontiers :') at least, even though I don't like SA2, I can understand why it's so popular. I can even understand why people nowadays are warming up to '06. With the exception of some cute Sonic/Knuckles interactions, I can't find a thing to like about Frontiers' story.

22) your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores

Some of the endings of ShTH, especially the Dark ones. I think they brim with potential :)

23) ship you've unwillingly come around to

Knuxamy. A friend of mine started shipping it, then I was sucked in. (it helps that Knuckles/Amy in SAd3 kicks ass :D) look, they're cute and they have a fun dynamic going on.

24) topic that brings up the most rancid discourse

WAAAAAAAAH WHY DO YOU WANT SONIC TO KILL VILLAINS????

shut up. shut your entire fuck up. i am so sick of this. it was never our argument. idw is the plague of the fandom.

25) common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

MUH

MANDATES

no. You go and actually listen to Flynn's words. Even he's sick of this discourse. (also, yes he confirms that Shadow comes with many notes, but also dude just. doesn't understand him. "can you hear the fatigue in my voice" my entire ass)

[corrose]

for the ask meme, 10, 12, 13? (your choice for fandom/character)

omg. thank you for the ask, sorry it took me so long to respond! My takes aren't super salty unforch and it took me so long to come up with answers (brain smooth)

10) Most disliked arc? Why?

12) Is there an unpopular arc that you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

13) Unpopular opinion about XXX character?

10) Most disliked arc? Why?

MDZS - Not a fan of the Yi City arc. I just didn't care as much about the whole *waves hand airily* whatever tf was going on with Xuē Yáng and Xiǎo Xīngchén and co. The general consensus that they're narrative foils for the mains...okay sure etc, but the characters don't compel or move me. It felt like an anime filler arc complete with extended flashbacks. Also. A-Qing deserved better.

12) Is there an unpopular arc that you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

Friend i racked my brains so hard for this one and honestly can't think of anything either past or current. Brain empty (holds it upside down like an empty wallet and a gnat flies out) instead i will choose to answer #14.

13) Unpopular opinion about XXX character?

ORV - Nirvana had so much nonbinary swag and I sorta wish singshong had pulled a Vegeta so that Nirvana could become a weird Kimcom party member lmao. Glad that we still get to see Nirvana from time to time as a librarian, but Nirvana as Kimcom party member would have been so funny. to me. (Does this even count as an unpopular opinion)

Secondary answer - Jiāng Chéng did nothing wrong actually

14) Unpopular opinion about your fandom?

People who aren't CN speakers shouldn't do podfics of CN properties 🙃

[chaossilvertale]

Oh Gohan...Sweet sweet Gohan...I fucking adore ya, but at this point I feel like things need to change

Hello, and this is chaossilvertale bringing you a question "What if Gohan stayed as the main character?" But not in the way you'd expect because I'm not exactly going the usual route of Gohan liking fighting or Gohans' entire personality changing, no that's a insult and utter betrayal of his character, what I'm doing is a little more...I dunno, meta I suppose, you see Toriyama originally wanted to end dragon ball at the cell saga and basically leave whatever happened next up to fan interpretation but because of money the studio had him make more chapters of the manga which he was going to reluctantly do with Gohan as the protagonist because that made the most sense but he did run into the issue of Gohan being a reactive character and not a active one, while Goku came to his own conclusions and did his own thing acting and not only reacting Gohan has kind of...Only ever reacted, he's been a reactive character so Toriyama didn't know how to write that as a main character, which is understandable and explains why Gohan wasn't made as the main character and he switched back to Goku, so inorder for Gohan to be the main character and take charge, but here's the thing, Gohan aren't souily acting nor reactive characters they do both, at least there's some evidence of Gohan being active sense he chooses to fight crime as the golden warrior then again as the great Saiyaman...Oh speaking of which:

The Great Saiyaman is brilliant because, as opposed to what people think, people saying it's terrible and that Gohan should just be a bad ass...I'm going to tell you right now, they are 100% completely entirely wrong and I am keeping the great Saiyaman for this semi fanfiction rewrite of dragon ball, why? Because it shows whi Gohan is inside, sure on the outside he's a nerd with no social skills and deep down he's a trauma induced anxiety filled being of power who could whipe out the planet in an instant...But he's also a goofball, he has layers, complexity, deep down he's a fun loving guy who just wants to be happy, he saves the people of Satan city as this hero who seems like a absolute disrespect to the character of Gohan but who in reality is the PERFECT love letter to this character, because it shows that despite the ptsd, being kidnapped by raditz, then piccolo, then going to Namek and being beaten to near death he's still son Gohan, he's still someone with a personality, despite fighting to basically death against cell he is STILL that son Gohan, he's still a hero with a goal to protect people and keep the promise he made to his father in protecting the earth even if he doesn't train, which I'll be the first to admit I didn't like, I thought and still think he should've trained, and no it's not because Chichi didn't let him. What happened was Gohan growing an absolute hatred for fighting over the years, associating it with nothing but evil and as a path where millions go to die, and he's experienced it first hand, Gohan doesn't dislike training or fighting. He despises it with every inch of his being even though he knows it's necessary for the world to live on, Gohan chose not to train, not just because of that, but also because he thought without a shadow of a doubt that he was the strongest ever, but...That's not true, Buu exists, Beerus, Broly, all of them they surpass him and he hasn't learned to just start training because...Well he's a family man, he's a man who loves and cares for the world, he'll go out of his way to fight, out of his way to save the world, but if you really look at the series he's drawn the conclusion that he doesn't need to that Goku and Vegeta will just be there to clean up the mess!...Not here. Gohan son Gohan, the first child of son Goku, needs a push, just one push, it's clear with the great Saiyaman he's willing to fight, he just needs to realize that he needs to train to get stronger to be able to protect everyone because one day he may not be able to if he doesn't! He just needs one moment...Or maybe... a few very strategic moments, put perfectly in place in order for him to learn that he's not the strongest and the only answer is training... But that's not going to be Buu.

Yes, dear reader, this is the point where I bamboozle you because Gohan not being the main character isn't the only gripe I have with dragon ball. It's also the Buu saga, GT, and Super over all, because granted, they're fine, the Buu saga is the best out of all of them but it's clear that things are...Chaotic. and they shouldn't be, so much so that I've decided to kind of...Give my own interpretation of the events of the series, taking the original Z movies making them 100% cannon(with some liberties mind you) giving new arcs which lead up to the Buu saga and taking elements from GT and Super such as the gods of destruction, the tuffel saiyan war, baby, shadow dragons, the angels, the multiverse, realms between life and the after life, super saiyan four, Xenoverse, and even other fan projects in order to make a diffrent tale to the original dragon ball and make things...I don't wanna say better, but diffrent to the point where I like it, and what should this series be called?...Well just dragon ball Z, why? Well, as we all know, only the anime was called Z, and that was to basically say it's the end of the series and all of that, but the manga? Oh, it wasn't ever called that which means that this new adventure, well seeing as its meant to be the end of this massive tale...I figure Z works best, or maybe I could call it something like dragon ball XYZ idk, I originally wanted to call it dragon ball Nexus but that only pertains to one arc which...Well would be dumb to name the whole thing after that so what do you think? Seriously, I want to know your thoughts because I do have some very big yet small things planned out. For now, dear viewer, I leave you with an... Small glimpse at what's to come in this very fanfictiony tale

In the darkness of space lies nothing...Absolutely nothing... Not even the slightest movement... but we zoom in to see... There is something a small...Rock of some kind floating in the middle of space...for a second nothing... Then we see an image flash unto the screen, a picture of a green almost insectoid like human staring in shock at what could only be described as a flash of golden light with an outline of a boy whos hair spiked out to a ridiculous degree, then only there for a second it disappears replaced by a different image, but it's clearly seen unlike the previous one, a warrior in purple garbs yelling at the top of his lungs covered in bruises and cuts, a firey golden aura surrounding him. He's surrounded by several beings, some with blue skin and red hair, those who weren't knocked out, save for him who sparked with pure fury... When the screen shifted back to the rock, it did nothing... For several moments before, almost like a heart it beated. As it did, the screen cuts to black, pure darkness... Then, a red flame appears in the center of that darkness, which slowly grows into the shape of what looks like a closed eye... It opens, revealing a yellow slitted eye which merely stares at the screen...breathing...Then out of the darkness came a toothy grin of yellow teeth, it slowly began to laugh a twisted cynical laugh as the darkness seemed to crack around it with before shattering entirely reveling what could only be described as a world of ice, fire, and lightning before the screen faded to black once more before the words "Energy...Pure...Feed." appeared on the screen, they disappeared, and the episode ended.

Hope you all enjoy this concept! Now, if you wouldn't mind telling me what you think, I'd love to hear what yall have in mind! And seriously I...Really do need a name, so if someone could give me one, that'd be appreciated!

[hopefromadoomedtimeline]

Unprompted ask but is there any pet peeves you have about trunks, either the character themselves or in the community?

Oh? Hmmmmmm I guess I could share a bit of insight into a few things that peeve me, why not. This is gonna be a bit long, just fyi.

The first and foremost thing being that Present Trunks is more or less shafted by the narrative post-Z in favor of Future Trunks, as it's a little more than just pandering to the fans of F.Trunks and makes it kinda a waste that P.Trunks was created only to be ignored time and time again. I think the most blatant time this happened was in GT, where Trunks had little to resemble his fun loving, challenge seeking, irresponsible self that was a little too cocky for his own good, instead he became a watered down version of Future Trunks: anxious, serious, and constantly attempting to be the voice of reason and failing. And in the GT opening they even gave him a sword that is there for no reason than to say "hey! remember future trunks and how he had a sword??? well this one has a sword too! isn't that cool???" It just made me be disappointed with him, and even though there are signs of his old characterization, it's miniscule (but notable when it pops up). Like, okay, you wanna say GT Trunks grew up and matured, okay, but have him mature that makes him distinct! otherwise the whole point of the two Trunks of Z having vastly different characterization means nothing! Because they have the same personality so apocalypses and deceased friends and family don't change you at all.

And I personally am not a fan of Future trunks being relevant in like, sooooo many games of DBZ. Like, I get it, he's a good character and fun and popular but he either shows up to either be like "hey, I'm here, remember me? I'm important" or "I'm not important and my appearance doesn't make sense but focus on me anyway" Admittedly, I think Trunks in Xenoverse is a good take, like he's a logical option and he's gonna be happy there, which he deserves. But it comes at the cost of having him put in dumb positions that come at the cost of his characterization: Him letting his guard down in the middle of a fight is pretty bad. But the most blatant is in Xeno 1, where he challenges Beerus to fight Demigra only to get folded in a minute and leave you in a 2-on-1, which by the way, it's a decision that caused everything to be endangered when Demigra corrupts everyone in the Time Nest (including him) and leaves them as his pawns! People probably died! Like, if Beerus dealt with Demigra it wouldn't have been climatic, sure, but fuck dude that was just- there was no point in doing it. I still think Xenoverse! Trunks is a good boy, but fuck, he kinda took some dum-dum pills.

Lastly, I kinda actively dislike the way a loud (not necessarily vast) portion of fans see Future Trunks as this "oh badass that could kill anyone bc he's pragmatic, he wouldn't lose bc he's different" like he isn't a flawed character, it becomes borderline mary suing at points when Trunks is very flawed as shown in the Cell saga. He makes mistakes! He overestimates himself! He's lost a countless amount of times! He's not some badass that's gonna insult his allies or family like some people like to think, he's much more than "heheh stabby man go slice" It honestly seems like those people want Namek-Era Vegeta, but for some reason think Trunks is just carbon copy Geets with less ego.

tldr; Future Trunks should be in less, Present Trunks should be in more, and Future Trunks isn't an almighty hyped badass.

[pics-that-make-you-goku]

Ok but you also going off makes me feel so much better because I was kinda self conscious sending that first ask in lmfao and yes no Ive been listening to that song on repeat for like 30 minutes now. Kakavege is absolutely undeniable and only the straights deny it. Spiritually I am shaking your hand. That meme thats the two arms holding hands? Thats us and over our joined hands its "knows "Love is Like a Ballad" is a Kakavege love confession song"

Oh of course!!! I understand the hesitancy due to the nature of how bonkers certain fans can be, not even exclusive to vegebul fans. Some of the people I follow on here have to censor certain words like Vegeta or KakaVege or Gochi so they do not get wild people in their inboxes being annoying and rude. You are totally welcome to send that stuff here though! I only despise genuine bigotry. Like the racist or transphobic or ableist people.

And yeah, it seems to be a certain thing with people who hate KakaVege being straight. Not that anyone who dislikes it is homophobic, some just do not and I can respect that! Though since it is the most popular gay ship, a lot of people use that as an excuse to be hateful unfortunately.

Agreed with that last part though lol! Like a Love Ballad is literally just Vegeta coping with the fact he has feelings for this guy. Even has him saying "Why why why, why do I think of his voice in the rain and it is close to my heart" so it is a justified way of thinking so!

[fusiioneternal-a]

DB and Pokemon :3

Send me a fandom / fandoms! // accepting

DB -

The first character I first fell in love with:  Goku. Not only was he the first character I crushed on in DB, he's one of my very first fictional character crushes in general. As a kid, I went from loving how strong and caring he was, to still doing that but now thirsting over him too as an adult 😂

The character(s) I never expected to love as much as I do now:  Vegito and Gogeta, actually. I've always liked them, but it wasn't until late 2020 / early 2021 that I revisited DB and realized "...Hey wait, why are those two hot and cute af-". The dominos fell from there.

The character(s) everyone else loves that I don’t: Frieza, Zamasu, and Toriyama's self-insert Roshi. I love to hate Frieza because he's a great villain, but the romanticizing too many people in the fandom do to him is disgusting. The same goes for Zamasu (and some other things that have happened here in the rp scene haven't helped either). Roshi's objectively gross and I find it questionable that he still has fans in this modern day & age.

Also, I feel I should add Vegeta here as an "honorary" mention, but I don't hate him.

The character(s) I love that everyone else hates:  The only characters I can think of that somewhat meet the criteria here are Uub and Yamcha. I don't think the former is widely hated? Forgotten, more like. I don't know if Yamcha's genuinely hated either outside of Vegebul stans, but people meme on him too much (Super hasn't helped at all).

The character I used to love but don’t any longer: Bulma, I guess. Revisiting DB has made me realize how awful her character truly is, but part (or half) of it is Toriyama's fault since he doesn't know how to write female characters in a respectful fashion. Chi Chi also applies here, but to a much lesser degree.

The character I would totally smooch:  Outside of my obvious choices of Goku, Vegito, and Gogeta? Yamcha; I'll give him a lil peck on the cheek.

The character I’d want to be like:  Gohan's literally the safest option here since he has the closest thing to what's considered a good, conventional life IRL (having an education, stable job, and a marriage that doesn't or didn't before Super because Videl's just a "waifu" now feel fake). I don't want the pressures of standing up to threats when the planet gets endangered through; Gohan can keep that.

The character I’d slap: Roshi. I'd slap Frieza and Zamasu too, if I could live afterwards.

(A) pairing(s) that I love: Canon: Gochi and Hanvi. Gochi has its problems, mainly in how they get together since you normally date someone first before you just marry them, but at least Goku and Chi Chi develop believable chemistry. Hanvi's the most "normal", non-problematic pairing in DB.

Non-canon: Vadito and Gogebooru because RP is a wonderful thing.

(A) pairing(s) that I despise: Canon: Despise is a strong word, but I'm neutral - bordering on dislike for Vegebul. Revisiting DB and hearing what other people have to say about it (primarily you Momo lol), I've realized that it's a pretty stupid pairing that doesn't make sense and frankly shouldn't have the fanbase it does because Vegeta and Bulma are so unfitting together because of their characters alone. Just screams toxicity if you take off the rose-tinted glasses and ignore fanon.

Non-canon: Vegigoge, Vegito x Zamasu, Vegito x Super Buu, Gogeta x Janemba, Frieza / Any Cold Family member x Any Saiyan. 🤢🤢🤮 to all of those.

Pokemon -

(Most of these will be games focused, since that's what I'm most familiar with when it comes to pokemon.)

The first character I first fell in love with: Like, LOVE love? Milo. When he was revealed June 2019, I was immediately biiiig 😍. A cute, handsome, kindhearted farmer who's hella muscular and strong yet gentle...*looks at Goku* I might have a type.

The character I never expected to love as much as I do now: Valerie, from Gen 6 / Pokemon XY (yes I have to say where she's from, that's how forgettable XY have become). I really liked her when I first saw and encountered her in-game, but now, she's one of the pokemon characters I love the absolute most. Fairy being my fav pokemon typing is the cherry on top.

The character(s) everyone else loves that I don’t:  BLUE. I hate this prick oml, he's so fucking overrated. One of the worst rivals we've had IMO, because he has very little character development and his personality is literally just "bully". Bland af. Post Red/Blue when he's an adult and a gym leader though, he isn't as bad, but still bland.

I also hate Lillie. Poorly-written and ruins the stories of SuMo & (to a lesser degree since you deal with her less) USUM for me.

The character(s) I love that everyone else hates: Hau and Hop. They're good beans and good rivals. Don't @ me. I've seen a lot of people hate on Bede, but I also like him a lot. Unlike Blue, his "bully" personality has more substance and you see him undergo his own story as SWSH's events progress. Cheren and Bianca also get too much flack for not being "mean enough", therefore they're "bad rivals". A rival doesn't have to be an asshole to someone in order to BE a rival to them. @ Pokemon Fans: please pick up a dictionary-

Game-verse Iris gets a mention here, because the bad rep her anime counterpart has does kinda influence the fandom's takes on her. I love how she becomes Unova's champion, and is currently the canon one (if you ignore the protag ofc) since Alder retired.

The character I used to love but don’t any longer: Ash. He was ok during the first, old seasons of pokemon, but honestly...he really should've just been left back in those times. His lowkey role as the audience's "self-insert" is so outdated, and I've stopped caring about him as a character. He annoys me more than anything else now. I would be way more interested in the anime if it was a different MC or if they had the actual protags from the games be the MCs during their respective region's season(s).

For example: What Pokemon Generations, Twilight Wings, and Evolutions did. I would eat up the anime if it followed the same kind of format these do.

The character I would totally smooch:  I'd give a platonic kissu to N, because he also deserves love.

The character I’d want to be like: Nessa. The modeling life isn't for me, but the overall stability and good reputation she has (plus she's pretty af) I would really like.

The character(s) I’d slap:  Giovanni, Archie, Maxie, Cyrus, Ghetsis, Lysandre, Lusamine, and Chairman Rose (so, all the "evil team" leaders lmao). I'd also slap Guzma, but it would be in the affectionate, playful kind of way.

A pairing that I love: There aren't much canon pairings to my knowledge, so. Valerie x Milo because again, RP is a wonderful thing (though tbh I shipped these two together before I had the chance to RP it).

(A) pairing(s) that I despise: Any of the protags / Rivals x Adult characters. Unless it's explicitly stated otherwise in official media, all of the protags and rivals are children or young teenagers, aka underage. Shouldn't need to explain here.

[crmsndragonwngss]

Freeza or Cooler?

I’ll do Frieza because I haven’t watched the stuff that Cooler was in, so I don’t know anything about him. He has a really cool design though

Give me a character and I will answer:

Why I like them

This is gonna read different than the other ones I’ve done because I measure villains on a different scale. A good villain should make you hate him, and so my feelings about Frieza are sorta inverted. I hate Frieza. Every time he’s on screen, I literally say, “god, he sucks.” And that’s a GOOD thing!! Frieza is SUCH a good villain because there are literally no redeeming qualities, and I love that about him. He’s so unapologetically evil, so merciless and savage behind this refined veneer, and that’s why I think he’s the best villain in Z period. I love how softly he speaks, how confident he is in himself and his power, and I love how unconcerned he is with the plight of those beneath him. I even like how he devolves into this squalling brat when he doesn’t get his way. He’s just a really good villain lol

Why I don’t

Hmmmmm... like I said, he’s a great character and a great villain, so it’s difficult to hold him against what I like and dislike in a character. All the things I LIKE about Frieza are things that I also DISLIKE about him. But I guess if I had to nitpick, I don’t like that he keeps coming back. I get why, and I enjoyed the Golden Frieza saga, and I’m sure I’ll appreciate his involvement in the Universe Survival saga because I do like Frieza, but I’m not really a fan of villains coming back over and over again

Favorite episode (scene if movie)

The episode where he tortures Vegeta in the Frieza saga. There is so much to love about this episode. We see his cruelty, how truly fucking evil he is, and in that moment, we see exactly why Vegeta is the way that he is. And Gohan, Piccolo, and Krillin are fucking horrified. Gohan can’t even watch it, he turns away. He doesn’t like Vegeta at this point, their alliance is one of necessity, but it’s so horrible and violent and cruel that he can’t stand to watch it. It just underscores how BAD Frieza is, and everything seems so hopeless, and only Frieza can make you feel that way

Favorite season/movie

Honestly? The Future Trunks sub saga of the Cell saga, because he gets his comeuppance lmao. But seriously, the latter part of the Frieza saga in Z

Favorite line

Where he’s explaining that he wants to use the dragon balls to wish himself 5cm taller so it looks like he’s still growing in DBS Broly. I laughed so much and I think about it a lot

Favorite outfit

I’ll do form since he doesn’t really wear clothes lol. His final form (not golden)

OTP

None

Brotp

Also none, though I’m sure he and Cell hung out in Hell lol

Head Canon

I have lots of headcanons about how he abused Vegeta, but I won’t get into the more intense ones. I do like the head canon that he tried to starve the Saiyans out so that he could keep Vegeta too weak to challenge him

Unpopular opinion

That he should stop coming back probably. I love Frieza, but we need to move on lol

A wish

That Vegeta will get to kill him at least once. That’s the only reason I would want him to come back, is so Vegeta can finally get direct revenge

An oh-god-please-dont-ever-happen

Don’t really have one

5 words to best describe them

And I mean this in the most endearing way possible, “punk ass bitchy lil motherfucker”

My nickname for them

Freezy pop (because of a certain newgrounds animation lol)

[mytwitterisdogtoast1]

Dragonball GT is the worst series of all the Dragonball series.

I recently watched a video created by Totally Not Mark about which series is better out of GT and Super when it came to the franchise in general and part of me remembered my huge dislike towards the series so I figured I’d get on my keyboard and do that good ol’ fashioned “post an opinion” onto Tumblr because that is what the site is mostly for. So Instead of posting about how I think super is better I’m going to just post why the hell GT is a horrible show to me and the things it gets right and why in general the show is horrible. Now before I get into that context I am in no way a super fan or the type of person who says that subs are better than dubs because we all love anime and shouldn’t restrict others from liking their thing because we fill we are superior to each other based on our willingness to read or because we think “that the voice actors in Japan are so much better and you lose the feeling you get when you watch Americans try and fail at it”. Look as a filthy casual who usually never gets angry or upset at most things my reasons for disliking GT aren’t going to be what most people would see as a bad thing or even say the reasons I like GT are the exact same reasons and if you can come to appreciate the reasons I give that’s cool and if you disagree that is fine as well as long as it leads to civil discourse because again, it’s anime and no one is superior in their likes to another just because of some arbitrary reasons. In the end, it’s all just cartoons. So before I get into why i dislike GT at every turn I see it show up I have to praise it for what it does right to me. That is the visuals of the how the characters looks. See I get that it’s like 10 years into the future or something like that and some people now look way too old like Krillin or just don’t show up ever unless it doesn’t matter but with who we got they look great and I would never take away how good they look. Also the villains as much as I will get into them are actually kinda cool in their own right and aren’t the worst ideas just implemented in such a poor manner that any real good they do is kinda mitigated by the fact that they are almost identical to some other villain in the end. So now with that out of the way I’m going to get into why GT is one of the worst anime of all time. At least to me.  So what makes Dragonball so great is it is a comedy genre even near the final seasons. They either had shitty reasons to amass an army or in general did silly things like make a holiday after themselves when they finally succeeded in ruling the world but in the end the genre of action anime is pretty much parodied with how it is a child who goes in and defeats these muscle men. We have a child who was never really raised by a normal adult trying to fit into a world outside of his normal views and fights these villains who against normal people would lose but in the end they all end up losing to a little boy. It’s a nice adventure with laughs and enough action to really get people to enjoy it. As much as I like Dragonball I never really liked it as much as Z. Yes I do know that it is mostly just Z over here in the west but I don’t see them really being the same manga with the shift in tone that the two had and the styles of adventure they ended up having in Z is so vastly different in comparison that to me they are totally different series when compared to each other. Also I was growing up when Z first came over to America so I didn’t see Dragonball until after it made its first debut on Toonami. So again, totally different series to me.  As for Z? Well Z is my favorite anime of all time. It’s by far not the best anime ever but I do believe it is the best action anime of all time for a couple of reasons. 1: I love how in the end they just fight better versions of the previous final boss. Vegeta? That’s just stronger Raditz who can transform. Frieza? That’s just stronger Vegeta who can transform multiple times. Cell? Thats just stronger Frieza who can transform multiple times, Regenerate, Use everyones powers, and also absorb people. You get the picture by now. Everyone else who comes after is just a “better version” of the last and that tickles my fancy. 2: It helped make certain parts of the genre of shonen manga via the introduction of tropes. Transformations weren’t really a thing before Z came along and pretty much every action anime since then has used tropes that Z has introduced. 3: It still holds up today in being a good anime and manga and in general the popularity of it was so big that even now when I’m a 30 something year old that it got a new series to continue even after GT finished it off in Super. These are the reason I think it’s the best action anime of all time but again, feel free to disagree if you want to.  As for why GT is such a shit show to me it all comes down to the fact that it introduces absolutely nothing new when it comes to itself that even the villains and the characters are a little in general copies of other characters. That and no one matters compared to Goku. If we start it off sure we have people like Trunks and Pan and even “insert comedy character who is only here because plot that could just be ignored and even removed” A.K.A. Giru. See the series starts off pretty generic in that Goku is training Uub up in the look out. He just disappeared and is finishing his time in what I assume was a 10 year training session. We are introduced to our first “villains” in Pilaf and his crew. They are finding out about not only gods look out but they also find a new set of dragonballs. Convenient plot details that are either confusing or just there to set up the series. Firstly before I get into that why was this never said before, Why did Bulma never pick up on these dragonballs, Why did pilaf just now find them if he’d been searching his entire life after dragonball? So many questions in general but still. Not the point. The point is this, they don’t have a real reason except to introduce our first main villains. Pilaf and his gang. A little weird when you look at it cause Pilaf has been bested so many times that him succeeding now seems like a stupid thing to happen. Thankfully his success is only to again, push the story. Goku and his gang have to now search for the dragonballs. Which is exactly what happened in Dragonball. This time, it’s across the universe. This is where my ability to really in general compare the shows ends. That is until in general I get to the final stretch. See there are very few things I can equate to Dragonball besides the adventure of the day aspect. You have the obvious nod towards Oolong with Zoonama who both want to marry a girl and end up falling for a boy in drag. You have the fact of Goku with a tech savvy Briefs person as well as a spunky fighter. Goku is a kid. Maybe a couple other things if I looked it up and compared but the main thing is that first section of GT is based heavily on Dragonball in general. The final stretch part begins with the “Red Ribbon Army” copy in the General Rildo part with Dr Myuu who is just also a copy of Android 20. So after this part finishes it kicks into the saiyan saga of DBZ. Baby is by far a complete knock off of 3 villains in DBZ being comprised of Vegeta, Frieza, and Garlic Jr. Why is this so? let’s face it, If you compare those 3 with him its basically a one for one beat on what he does with someone else. Firstly he’s in the body of Vegeta and even when he starts losing he goes and just becomes a great ape. Pretty much what Vegeta does in the first saga of Z. As for Frieza they can both survive in space, Has multiple different forms and lastly he hates saiyans. Now sure the reason is different but the disdain for them is pretty much comparing blue to a lighter shade of blue that looks just like blue. We could even mention that Baby is like Cell in that they are both made by science but the comparisons end there. As for Garlic Jr Baby does the same thing in taking control of people and making them the same as with the black water mist. These are what make Baby pretty much a whole of 3 separate people. Next comes the Androids and cell. Super 17 is pretty much just perfect cell. You have past villains returning to take out Goku. Those of which are Frieza and Cell. Which funny enough Frieza comes back but dies by trunks who warns of 2 androids coming to fight against Goku and kill him. Which comes in the forms of Dr Myuu and Dr Gero. Both of which, are you know, not the main androids being talked about. In fact it’s actually 17 and hell 17. Both of which are going to fuse and make one super android who changes forms into basically cell in that he can absorb energy and also has infinite energy as well. These are basically the main parts except that the end takes multiple people to fight off and kill Super 17. To which they then wish back people with the dragonballs because one of the Z fighters died and they want to bring them back. Seems that it would be fine except for the small little detail of its an evil dark dragon who when after granting the 7th wish he creates these evil dragons. Before I get into those dragons lemme question this. If Kami and Piccolo fused and the dragonballs stopped existing for a bit and it took Dende a new person to create new dragonballs wouldn’t he know of the evil dragons as well as also in general start a new chain thus stopping 7 evil dragons from existing? Oh well, at least we get 7 different dragons for Specifically only Goku to fight against. I can see people saying how can you compare the evil dragons to Buu which it’s a lot easier than you would think. How many different forms of Buu are there? would you guess about maybe 7? Cause there are 7 different forms of Buu. 6 of which are different forms when he absorbs other people. So lets take it this way. Omega Shenron also absorbs 6 different “people” in the 6 different dragonballs that aren’t his. Sure, he only gets one more form in that he has now been transformed into Omega from Syn Shenron but still. Transformations are a check. So what are the 7 different forms of Buu? 1:Kid Buu 2: Buff Buu which is when he absorbs the southern Supreme Kai. 3: Fat Buu which he gets from absorbing the Supreme Kai. 4: Evil old Buu. 5: Super buu. 6: Super buu with Gotenks absorbed. 7: Super Buu with Piccolo absorbed. 8: Piccolo with Gohan absorbed. Now some of you might be saying “that’s 8 different forms of Buu and not 7″ But in the end Syn and Omega are both different “forms” thus making 8 different forms of dragons as well. The main part that gets annoying though is how they defeat Shenron. Firstly they use fusion and then don’t win even though they could have in the end. Why? Arbitrary reasons. See in Z it was because Vegito wanted to be fused to save the others. In GT it’s cause they needed to defeat him with the spirit bomb. Just like they did with Buu. Both spirit bombs are also involving a larger amount of people than normal. In Z it was all of earth. Every person. In GT it was the whole universe. That’s not even the final part of how it’s the same. At the end of Z Goku says goodbye to his friends and fucks off. GT does the exact same thing. The show is honestly pretty much a beat for beat of Dragonball and Z. It adds nothing to the universe and what it does add  is half assed. Things like Vegeta having an epiphany that Goku is better than him twice at the final end villain or having Goku lose a tournament as a child or stuff like that fill in the cracks of the shit cake that is GT with more shit that doesn’t help or make it better. GT even fails to make what it had that was great good. The use of a new level of SSJ to defeat Baby was also used in the same ways of how Kaioken wasn’t enough to beat Frieza and then SSJ was also attained then. Everything is on a bigger scale while being comparable to the smaller scale before it. The reason I don’t compare this with Super as that even when it takes from earlier seasons of DBZ or anything else it is fresh in comparison. Goku and Vegeta doing their rivalry? not beat for beat. Older characters? They have use. Repeat villains? Frieza is almost a completely new person with his arc in that he now knows he needs to train and actually does and also does some good and even respects Goku. That’s why I don’t compare the two because they are incomparable. GT? It’s pretty much a shitty version of what came before it.

[sweetescapeartist]

MORE ABOUT AYA MATSUI

DISCLAIMER: This is not meant to attack Matsui nor any of the others who previously worked on the series (or those who currently work on the series). This is just to aid us in having an understanding of why Yamcha & Krillin are viewed in a negative light by the fandom. No hate towards them & we shouldn't harass any of them. We understand how things come about so that we can present corrections & prevent misinformation when appropriate by using discretion.

HER MISUNDERSTANDING OF VEGEBUL & DISDAIN FOR YAMCHA:

DBZ filler EP 124 & 125 were written by Aya Matsui. She is OBVIOUSLY a Vegeta fangirl who seems to not like Yamcha very much. In those episodes, Matsui writes for Bulma's parents talk about how amazingly strong Vegeta is and how good looking he is.

And without valid reason, Bulma was written to care WAY too much for the guy who threatened to kill her more than once, treated her like dirt, & was responsible for the death and torment of her friends.

And its revealed in the filler that Bulma wanted attention from her boyfriend AND a genocidal maniac who threatened her life multiple times. And the previous threat on her life was recent.

This filler honestly made Bulma look worse than she was in the manga. Bulma was horny & dumb in the manga and regretted her actions. DBZ filler made Bulma appear as if she developed Stockholm Syndrome for Vegeta along with her Hybristophilia (sexual interest & attraction to criminals; Bandit Yamcha, Zarbon in filler, Vegeta).

Matsui appears to have been one of the many who believed the lie Future Bulma told Future Trunks & then wrote for Bulma to fall for Vegeta in an unbelievable way before Toriyama revealed what REALLY happened. In reality, Bulma stupidly slept with Vegeta anyway despite him being evil & genocidal because she was horny and currently single after breaking up with Yamcha again. Then, Bulma couldn't stand Vegeta for years.

Aya Mastui & Toei had jumped the gun because they didn't know that Toriyama planned for Bulma to to regret sleeping with Vegeta. It WAS NOT some romantic story. There was no love between them when it began. They both hated each other after their one night stand & only came to care for each other over the span of many years due to Future Trunks.

It's a unique romance story that many VegeBul fans ignore for some reason in favor of a prince saving her from an abusive boyfriend when the prince was the actual abuser & so was she. Them forming a relationship due to their son from the future? No other DB couple has that kind of story.

Meanwhile, Yamcha gets ignored for the most part in DBZ EP 124 & 125 unless it was to make him look bad so that the currently evil Vegeta looked better. These two filler episodes were simply VEGETA WANKING. Just evidence of Matsui being a fan of Vegeta's design, but not understanding the character. And just as she did not understand the character well, most Vegeta fans don't understand him either & only like the husk of the character.

Nothing wrong with being a Vegeta fangirl or fanboy. Just pointing out a fact & how it skewed Matsui's depiction of reality in this & other instances. I just wonder why there aren't many fangirls/fanboys of End of Z Vegeta? That's my favorite Vegeta. Vegeta fans try to make evil Vegeta like EoZ Vegeta, so why not be a fan of the developed version of him instead of taking away development from the so-called "most developed character"? Seems unreasonable & illogical to me. Matsui seems to have became a fan of EoZ Vegeta with how she wrote GT Vegeta to behave.

But, back to her dislike for Yamcha...

Matsui wrote the filler scene of DBZ EP 70 where Bulma has a dartboard with Yamcha's face on it when Krillin & Gohan are searching for her.

That dartboard was not present in the manga. And why would Bulma have that after she cried over Yamcha's death and went to Namek to bring him back to life? Makes her look worse than when she didn't take accountability for the arguments she started with Yamcha as she briefly fantasized about Goku for a moment on Namek in the original manga.

I personally believe that back then, Matsui may have felt some sort of connection with Bulma in some way (not saying for a fact), but she didn't understand the character well (as many Bulma fans don't) & didn't realize that Bulma started the arguments instead of Yamcha. Then, Matsui gave Bulma a "Yamcha dartboard" in the episode she adapted.

HER DISDAIN FOR KRILLIN:

LASTLY... Aya Matsui also seemed to not like Krillin very much either as shown by DBZ EP 117 where Krillin is treated as a joke for most of the episode, Malon treats Krillin poorly, & she flirts with other guys right in front of him (even with Krillin's close friend Yamcha). Then, in DBZ EP 167, there is a scene that has Yamcha & Krillin training to fight Cell, and both are treated as clumsy jokes rather than highly skilled martial artists. But, Krillin is treated as more of a joke than Yamcha as Yamcha mocks then kicks him in the face.

So, Matsui seemed to have strongly disliked Yamcha, but disliked Krillin a bit more. Why do I say so? BECAUSE Matsui was the head writer of DBGT where Krillin and his family are inaccurately portrayed. Marron & others were written to behave like Bulma & Krillin is almost always insulted by his wife & daughter. And Yamcha is mostly absent for the entire series. She is also one of the ppl who worked under Takao Koyama; the headwriter for DBZ who strongly disliked Krillin. So, Koyama, Matsui, Kubota, & others of Koyama's "underlings" who worked on DBZ & GT wrote episodes that depicted both Krillin & Yamcha in negative ways.

So, thanks to Koyama, Matsui, & others, many fans do not understand Yamcha nor Krillin and have a false depiction of them which in many cases resulted in undue hatred of the characters.

Again, this is not to attack Matsui or anyone else. Just gathering information to share an understanding as to why filler scenes in DBZ have negatively impacted the perception of certain characters for all of these years. First we must know & understand, then we correct the perception in our own unique ways when the opportunity presents itself.

[beevean]

I know people are ambivalent to the sonic twitter takeovers making shadow to be an edgy angsty boi for the memes, but i actually think the way it is done is more cute than offensive tbh. I like shadow being an edgy angsty boi sometimes, he's just a teenager. The part where he cries singing all of me is so precious sbhsjs i just wanna hold him

I think the problem with Shadow is that

1) the dude went from being the darling of the franchise to fall out of focus, like everyone else

2) his voice is ehhhhh

3) his biggest role is in Sonic Boom, where he became a stereotypical "bwah friendship makes you weak" bully, without a hint of the depth he had in the canon series and in the cartoon he wasn't even funny like everyone else

So that could be why fans mixed all of this and concluded "SEGA wants Shadow to be Discount Vegeta" and dislike its interpretation in the Twitter Takeovers.

I personally don't take the Takeovers seriously. In the same series Sonic and Eggman chill together, among other things 😂 and yeah Shadow may be the most OOC, but he's so over the top that he's funny. My favorite moment was when he said that his favorite anime was Kill La Kill 😂

[catbowserauthor]

Dragonball 30 Day Challenge: Day 21 Favorite Movie

So I actually really like most of these movies. I’ve never been bothered by the “it wouldn’t fit into canon” argument. I view them as fun AU adventures so I just judge them based on their individual traits. I won’t be including the specials in here as I think that’s a different topic.

So, let’s do a quick countdown to my favorite, from the worst to the best!

16: Resurrection F: Sorry, I have never been a huge fan of Freeza. He was fine as a villain in the Namek saga and his unexpected return until he was killed by Trunks was interesting. Beyond that, I don’t find him an engaging bad guy. He’s a Bond villain. He’s not fun for me to watch and him growing that much stronger in four months is stretching my sense of disbelief even for Dragonball. Vegeta getting robbed of that kill was crap and introducing Whis’ ability to rewind time killed any tension for future battles for me.

And I don’t wanna talk about what they did to Gohan.

15: Lord Slug: There’s nothing “wrong” per say with this movie but it’s just...well, it’s Piccolo Daimao all over again. So, it’s kind of boring. I do like seeing the colder climate as Toriyama didn’t draw that very often (claims he hates the cold so it’s usually summer or spring in his manga) so we didn’t get to see it as much. I also love the brief interaction Goku has with Gohan during the battle and Gohan and Icarus are way too adorable.

14: Bio Broly: Okay so I don’t hate this movie. It’s not good but I don’t think it’s utterly horrible like some people do. But the reasons I like it might be different than others. I like this one because you get to see Goten and Trunks’ friendship. You see them pal around, you see them argue but then when they’re close to getting killed you also see Trunks refuse to leave an unconscious Goten to die alone. I freaking LOVE that.

13: Return of Cooler: I think my issue with this movie is the same issue I have with Super in general. It’s focused on Goku and Vegeta almost the whole way through. We get small cuts to the others but otherwise it’s just them. I like both these characters but I like to see a mix of the cast so that’s why it falls lower.

12: Dragonball Super Broly: Okay so I really like the adaption of Dragonball Minus. It turned out way better than I hoped and the animation in this movie is absolutely amazing. I’d recommend it just based on that alone. I really enjoyed the new characters. But again, not a fan of Freeza and the fact it was really only Goku and Vegeta—again—really hurts it for me. Still a fun movie though.

11: Wrath of the Dragon: This one has a really fun plot and it’s neat to see Trunks really bonding with someone. I think the brief interactions at the BBQ are some of the best. The downtime in this movie has some of my favorite moments. The final battle is fun but I think it would have been better if someone other than Goku got the finishing blow.

10: Super Android 15: This one, again, I really love for the downtime! Seeing Goku’s family shopping, going out for lunch—I love that kind of stuff! The Androids themselves are interesting enough and while I know a lot of people don’t like it, I really like they gave 15 a redneck accent in the dub. Gave him some character. I also love Gohan and Krillin trying to help even though they are completely outmatched. Gohan throwing himself in front of a blast to protect his father who is creating a spirit bomb is one of my favorite small scenes.

9: Broly Second Coming: The interactions between Videl, Goten and Trunks are pure gold. I’d love to see them just...shooting the breeze with each other. The battle against Broly is fun but I love the ending where Goku pops in from the Other World (presumably) to lend his aid. That entire family Kamehameha is just brilliant.

8: Battle of Gods: So this is going to sound weird because Beerus and Whis are some of my favorites in DBS. I did not like them here. No idea why, just didn’t. The Super Saiyan God ritual is kinda weird but I love all the character interactions before this! This is what I really love about Dragonball, all these interesting personalities working off one another. I like how Goku and Beerus’ fight goes and the animation is really well done. Pretty solid. And Vegeta defending Bulma—awesome.

7: Bojack Unbound: This is how I pictured Gohan growing up into after Cell—still studies but plays outside and still trains and ChiChi being okay with it. This is the personality I love Gohan with—confident but not overly confident, shy but with pride in himself and a great blend of his human and Saiyan sides.

Freaking. Love. It.

The rest of the movie is meh. Save one element—Goku saying “screw it” to the rules and intervening to save his son

and Gohan utterly owning everyone with SSJ2.

But I have to rank it high with having my absolute favorite characterization of Gohan.

6: Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan: Yes, I’m ranking the old one higher than the new one. I don’t care. I watch this one more.

I like the aliens, I like all the other characters being involved. I love the fact that Gohan is a kid in this one. I love Vegeta’s being utterly and completely terrified. I love Piccolo coming in for the save, I love Goku forgetting about the battle and Broly and rushing to try and save his kid. And when Broly threatens his son...

“Kakarot, how much do you love your son?”

“Gohan, leave.”

“But Father—“

“NOW.”

I think having more characters and introducing peril to all of them makes it more engaging.

5: Dead Zone: Quick trivia fact, this is the movie that got me into Dragonball. I caught the end of it on Cartoon Network and was intrigued from them on. I really like that this has a younger Goku. Goku from the Saiyan Saga to the Android Saga is probably my favorite characterization of him. That really shows here. He doesn’t care what beef Kami and Garlic Junior have. He’s there for his kid. “Return my Gohan!” There’s so great choreography in this one too and more martial arts than just ki blasts which I always love seeing.

4: World’s Strongest: Little Gohan is fun. I love seeing him interact with Goku’s friends and an enemy that still thinks Roshi is the strongest makes for some great throwback scenes. I like seeing Goku’s friends get involved in the action. Goku intervening to protect his son against a brainwashed Piccolo and Gohan having to watch the two men he admires most in the world fight makes for great drama.

3: Fusion Reborn: This movie is just fun. It’s wacky, it’s crazy, the fights are insane, the dialogue is hilarious, it’s bright and colorful and Goku and Vegeta while being the main heroes don’t completely dictate the plot. There’s enough fun stuff going on with other characters that I can enjoy any aspect of this movie.

2: Tree of Might: The scents between Goku and Gohan are why I love this movie. Them playing in the tub, Goku letting him keep Icarus in a cave in the yard...the ENTIRE scene of Goku trying to break through to Gohan once he’s become a giant ape just breaks my heart. “Gohan! It’s Daddy!”

Then having time cut off his own son’s tail to save him and ooo, Goku’s “I’m so done” glare to Turles. I adore that when Goku is at his lowest, it’s his son’s voice that gets him to stand back up.

1: Cooler’s Revenge: I like these slice of life moments and this movie has lots of them. I love Goku and his friends and son just wanting to go on a camping trip. I love that Cooler comes not to avenge his brother but because Freeza being beaten by a Saiyan looks bad on their entire family. That is brilliant.

This scene:

Daddy Goku for the win here. I love how they show his relationship with Gohan in this movie. They’ve always been my favorites so I’m biased by nature. I love how the battle against Cooler goes. I love how they have to struggle not to use their ki when they’re tending to Goku. The characters and scenarios in this movie really make it for me.

One thing I noticed as I did this list is that most of my top movies have Gohan as a kid. I don’t think that’s random. I much prefer his characterization at that age and I like it when the others can still contribute to the plot. But as I said, except for my top most disliked one, I really like all of these in some manner. They’re always a fun time!

[risingsouls]

@ox-priincess​ said: 👿 A person they can’t stand.

Least Favorites! || Open!

[I’m going to answer with all of them because WHY NOT]

[Gohan is very, very, VERY slow to hate. Anyone that hurts his friends or family, for sure. OR if they attack the innocent and enjoy it. Namely? Cell and Frieza. Dealing with Cell was a BIG turning point in his life. He was a monster with zero regard for anyone outside of his own amusement and was the reason for his father’s death (even if he blames himself for that, too ). That resulted in 7 years without his father, his hero. Frieza is similar in that he’s just...well evil. Gohan saw him kill Krillin and Vegeta and massacre entire Namekian villages. I should really talk about Vegeta at some point too because he did all this but aklsdjfkaldjf SOON]

[God, Nappa’s shit list is huge. Frieza is top of the list for obvious reasons. Most of the Frieza force, especially Zarbon and Dodoria. The rest of the Colds. Vegeta ( though this one is complicated ). The Earthlings. Kakarot. King Vegeta. To name a few.]

[On top of Selbi’s list is her parents for their greed. For their comfort in pimping out their own children for money. So likely neglectful or shit parents in general. The men who tried to take advantage of her in the Frieza Force. She’s also not a fan of the clients who tried to tarnish or name as a mercenary, warranted or not. While she enjoys messing with them, she’s not a fan of Galactic Patrollers.]

[Does she really dislike anyone if she wants to eat all of them? :’3

Probably inherently Goku, just because she’s a creation of Dr. Gero. Cell, though she does like messing with him. Frieza gets on her nerves more often than not. Anyone that gets in her way. Weaklings.]

[arkus-rhapsode]

My Hero Academia Chapter 208 Review

So this chapter might’ve made a few people a little upset, but others really happy. Well its time to ask if that if any dislike is warranted or was this a good chapter? ...I mean its about Bakugou so that already is a hit or miss with some people. But whatever, I’m going to look at this audience splitting chapter under my critical lense

We open where we left off, with Bakugou having saved Jirou from the ambush by Kamakiri. Also it’s worth noting here that Kamakiri is actually blocking Bakugou’s attack with the blade he had previously grown from his arm and a new one from his leg to form a blocking stance. Its a small detail, but its actually really cool because lets face it, growing blades from you is a pretty bland power. So I do like when Horikoshi does go out of his way to show us the applications of one’s ability regardless of how simple or weird it is.

Also it seems that Bakugou during his rant to his team mentioned he’d protect them if they were targeted. I guess that’s what they were so shocked over in chapter 206′s ending. Also it makes that whole scene of them all doubting him a bit more stronger cause he was acting like something contradictory to what he’d said he’s do.

So Kamakiri retreats and I want to mention this now because I’ll talk about it later, but class 1-B is acknowledging that Bakugou is far too strong in this chapter and that’ll be important.

Also with Monoma freaking out over Bakugou’s character development, it’s important to realize the ones who are standing up for Kirishima, who its pretty expected given how he feels about Bakugou. And Kaminari who in the liscene exam, saved Bakugou and instead of him being indignant, Bakugou helped K.O. Shishikura. Kirishima has acknowledged that Bakugou was capaple of saving people like every potential hero, but this is the first time he really did it to save someone and not for simple victory.

And this is the big crux of this chapter, Bakugou’s development. Its important to note that Bakugou is supposed to be the incarnation of victory as vocalized by Deku. But what’s held him back in things like their first exercise is that he refuses to work together with people. So while he is still strong and managees to beat down whoever he’s fighting, his neglection of teamwork and the point of the purpose of the exerciser always came to set him back. But now, hee’s going to work with his team and is accepting nothing less than a perfect victory.

Though I’m going to be honest, I liked it that class 1-b was the only one with a clean sweep victory because even if they didn’t win the entire day, they’d still have that as a win. But this is Bakugou so he’s gotta not lose a single person or else its “not enough saving...”

We see into what Tokage’s plan was, that they figured that Bakugou is without a doubt thee ace in the hole, and going up against him one-on-one was no option for them. But given his persoanlity and strength, the teeam will follow him and likely get sick of his bullshit if he becomes exacerbated. So they plan on a hit and run strategy very similar to Vegeta vs the androids who keep peaing out every time he started to talk. Y’know... Bakugou is really just a tiny Vegeta now that I think about it.

Also, conspicuous zoom up on Sero shows he’s putting the pieces together with what Tokage’s quirk.

Bakugou follows Bondo only to be ambushed by Awase. Another little sidenote is that Deku comments on his stealth skill, which was something he was very surprised by when he fought Toga-Camie.

Awase binds up Bakugou with his quirk, but Bakugou knows this won’t hold him.

Yep Satou actually works with Bakugou to free him and returns to chasing Awase. I also like to mention that with both Shouji and Satou’s new abilities, ORA ORA ORAing, your opponent counts as a special move.

Awase is getting chased down by Bakugou, so he decides to brace himself with a steel plat welded to his face-That’s dumb! Like I get the idea, but given Bakugou’s strength level, there is no doubt he could dent that metal similar to Kendou. And putting that right up to your face just seems bad stupid.

Well, Bakugou doesn’t actually take this chance to punch him, instead he propels himself up and...

Sero and Jirou showed up and Bakugou even acknowledged that they could help him. Which is making me really question why they freaked out when they heard his strategy. Seems pretty balanced, for Bakugou I mean. Jirou takes out Awase by giving him a blast of surround sound. Proably has lost his hearing for a good time too.

Anyway, Bakugou caught up with Bondo and as you can probably guess,  glue doesn’t fair too well against explosions.

So Awase and Bondo are captured and Monoma doesn’t seem to understand how Bakugou “mellowed out.” well here’s the thing, Bakugou is still an angry and easy to agitate person, but he’s not mean spirited in his anger. Most of his anger is a feature rather than say, him in chapter one where he condescended down to his entire class and told Deku to kill himself. He still gets mad, but as a person he’s become better. Its also important to realize that he too, is trying to be number one hero, and he won’t fall behind Deku, so if the only thing stopping him from getting that license was saving people, then he’ll adapt. He’ll learn how to save others. And he isn’t like Momo who’s hang up is persistent throughout the series, Bakugou is someone for as shitty as he can act, is a prodigy, so when he applies himself, he is that much  better and quicker at learning.

Now Tokage says that the plan was basically Bakugou leads and the others would follow, but then find that moment of them following, and then break them down without Bakugou’s help. But the team is compensating for being “perfect.” But I have to disagree with that. The team isn’t perfect, so much as they are capable of acting on their own. An important difference that was brought up between the classes last chapter was how organized class 1-b is compared to 1a. But that has its own issue with the fact that class 1-b is so organized by their leader that they are basically all pieces on a board being moved around. Kendou’s team did exactly as she said and by doing so they had set up a strategy they had their victory ensured. Honenuki’s team followed what he was saying, but then when Pony was left standing, she had to come up with her own strategy after her leader lost. As we see in this fight, Tokage’s plan and organization isn’t bad, but it wasn’t capable of thinking that her opponents would act in such a way.

So there is both good and bad to having an organized team, like Kendou’s when the strategy works out or with Tokage who we will see made a bad call and is now suffering not being able to recover from it. Basically, its not that team Bakugou is so good, its more, Tokage came up with a bad plan.

(Also Bakugou looks like Kamakiri in that panel and I’m upset that we don’t get enough interaction off of them.)

We get a really cool set of panels where Sero figures out Tokage’s quirk while Kamakiri and Bakugou fight. Sero deduces that Tokage needs to regenerate after cutting her body up as we’ve been seeing with her reforming above the the battlefield.

Kamakiri loses and thus this battl would be over if they took the now defeated Kamakiri to jail, but Bakugou wants his perfect with and is going after Tokage.

We see in a flash back that Bakugou gave his team gernades and now I’m just going to say this, I wish we had a whole fucking flash back because a lot of this is seeming like a lot of narrative convenience. Also unlike Buggy, Tokage can’t pull off a chop-chop quick escape. (Also, did Sero blow up a chunk of her body? Maybe he really is the villain here?)

Bakugou then ambushes Tokage and then...

...It’s over. And while I do enjoy Bakugou’s line here, I’m pretty sure people are upset at this loss for Tokage. Well, here’s where I double down on my claim from a few weeks ago, this was going to be the least important fight in terms of fighting. And I was right. This fight wasn’t about the clash between Bakugou and Tokage, this match was about Bakugou’s growth as a character. Thus meaning the Class 1-b team is basically a group of jobbers that exist as an obstecle to overcome rather than characters. Now there’s nothing wrong with that.

I had pointed out how each B team up till now had at least one member we wer familiar left and thus they were the one who got to show off the most and develop more, with their teammates getting a chance to actually reveal their personalities (In the case of team Honenuki we actually ad two characters who did that). But team Tokage, at best had Awase, but nothing else we really knew about them, so it made sense that this wasn’t going to be about them.

However, Horikoshi then had to tacked on Tokage that sh was a recommendation student as to give Class 1-b’s team some menace. But unlike Honenuki, we didn’t know that beforehand, so it really just comes off as added hype right before her loss, so you care more. So I think some people thought that she was going to be a lot more hot shit than she actually got to be.

Now the question I posed was do I agree with this, well here’s where I say I’ll talk about that in the post chapter follow up, and now we must all get ready for Deku vs Monoma. Which I’m very worried about because its now 2-1 and if 1-a wins then it’ll be 3-1 which makes them look like jackasses and their hype was pointless, but if its B who wins then its 2-2 and that feels incredibly unsatisfying. See your now seeing why I wasn’t a fan of Todoroki and Honenuki being a draw.

Post chapter follow up: This is a very confused chapter where its honestly hard to call it good or bad. Now as I said, I did predict that this was going to be unimportant for Class 1-b and thus I’m not disappointed at all with team Tokage’s loss. I’m sure people will say Bakugou shouldn’t be able to to defeat a recommendation student. Well here’s the thing, recommendation isn’t about power, its more quirk based potential. This isn’t like S-class mage in FT or Captain in Black Clover where these people are literally in a different league. These are just kids who happen to have greater powers than others.

Now I wanna give major credit where credit is due, and that is the character of this fight. Bakugou’s character growth is what this was all about and thus, its a good thing to see him develop so quickly as opposed to someone like Momo who has yet to get over their mental hurdle. Now as we saw last week Bakugou still has a way to go with how he saves as we saw with him kicking Jirou out of the way, which is something I don’t think All Might would ever do. SO while he’s got the concept of saving down, he might need to fine tune it.

Also it was cool to really see Sero get a good moment in this round. Its important to note that Sero is actually very smart and analytical. Not to the point of Deku or Iida, but he has been shown that he is of an above average intellect. And while Jirou was mostly recon that didn’t work out, it was cool to see her use her support items. And Satou... Punched stuff...

I think that the development of the character really are a good thing for the character of Bakugou rather than the actual combat as opposed to something like Yuno vs Rill in Black Clover, where it was more about just how strong Yuno is now a opposed to his character growth. And I’ll take a stronger character over a stronger fighter story. Now this an arc based on combat so, I’m still critical of it, and the combat in this fight is pretty unimpressive.

Now for the negatives and my biggest frustration was the pacing this chapter. It feels like so much was condensed into a single chapter. I get maybe there might’ve not been enough for two chapters and that this is supposed to be about Bakugou more than anything else, but defeating 4 people and getting moments from the other 1-A kids feels so rushed. Like if I had to, I’d split this up  as this chapter is just beating Bondo and Awase, then next chapter we get like a prolonged fight of Kamakiri vs Bakugou and taking out Tokage as she realizes  how bad she messed up.

There’s also the issue of the flash back or lack there of, and it feels so much like Horikoshi is just making shit up from their strategy meeting to fit the fight, but its so clunky. I guess this method allows him to do that, but It just feels so convenient, like impossibly convenient. So if Im going pick on Hiro for narrative convenience, I’m going give Hori the same treatment.

So was this a good chapter? I think that it’s good in terms of storytelling, but its understandably not going to attract or seem as appealing to many from a fight perspective. Or those who have been really trying get hyped on class 1-b. And as I mentioned, there are narrative issues in this fight, so its not completely exempt from criticism. Which Is why I think my final verdict is the best I can give something like this.

Final Verdict: 6/10

It’s above average in terms of story and character, but it is till messy in some points. What with the easy to jobber characters and to massive compressed storytelling

Amazing character development on Bakugou’s quest for No. 1

Ultimately stale action

Good story is there, though it feels rushed in terms of pacing

[nerdsideofthemedia]

Should the term “Mary Sue” be retired?

The original. 

I didn’t have any intention of posting my non-RWBY, non-MHA blog posts here, but here’s this one seems to be becoming important with the rise of the claims that Arya Stark is a Mary Sue. So here it goes:

In my walks through Dan Olson’s twitter, I came across this:

Which got me thinking: is the term “Mary Sue” completely pointless?

Before I wonder about this question, let’s take a quick journey through time. In the 70s, Paula Smith noticed a character pattern among the Star Trek fanfic and created a parody to point this out, “A Trekkies’s Tale”, whose protagonist was called Mary Sue. During the following years, the “Mary Sue” wasn’t necessarily considered as something bad, instead it was considered as a phase every writer will go through as it was intimately associated with self-inserts and was only applied to fan-fictions1;2.

In recent years, the term has left the fanfic and began being applied to original fiction too, losing its meaning along the way and gaining a pretty negative connotation. In fact, nowadays, “Mary Sue” is such an extremely subjective term that even TV Tropes admits:

“TV Tropes doesn’t get to set what the term means, the best we can do is capture the way it is used.” 1

Hell, I’ve even come across with this subjectivity, as once I called Orihime from Bleach a Mary Sue, on youtube, and one person defended my use of it by explaining she was liked by everyone, which wasn’t the reason I considered a Mary Sue to begin with and consider that justification to be pretty dumb.

Why is being liked by everyone not a good parameter?

Have you ever read/watched a shonen? Most of the good guys are on good terms. Even when there is some animosity between a main character and another one, it’s usually because of the other, like Vegeta from Dragon Ball Z, who dislikes Goku because he’s better than him, not because of anything egregious the latter did. In “My Hero Academia”, Bakugo hated Midoriya mostly because of pride and arrogance (they are now on good terms).  Yes, the Avengers may have not loved each other from the get-go, but, by the end of the film, they were ready to live happily ever after. And when the sequels even stop (they never will), they will end up being on good terms.

Another definition of what is a “Mary Sue” is it’s a character that is overpowered/great set of skills + tragic backstory, (sometimes even without the latter). So let’s take a look at:

Superman: an alien whose planet was destroyed, adopted by 2 humans, and has a set of skills that would make Goku turn… Well, he would probably just find it cool, but Vegeta’s head would explode for sure as he threw a temper tantrum. His powers include flying, super speed and strength (to the point of almost completely invulnerability), X-ray and heat vision.

Bruce Wayne: a poor (not literally) orphan who was raised by his butler and whose riches go beyond Taylor Swift’s wildest dreams, let alone poor (far more literal) little us. Thanks to it, he has access to technology that has little to no limitations, yet his money never ends.

Goku: an alien whose planet was destroyed, adopted by an old man who was killed by him in giant monkey-form. Not only he can fly, he is particularly powerful even for his people even though he’s a low-level specimen according to the planet’s hierarchic structure.

Ichigo: a guy who turns out to be part-Hollow, part-Shinigami, part-Vizard, part-who-the-hell-even-cares-anymore, even though some of them are pretty rare.

Harry Potter: an orphan raised by his aunt and her family, who all treat him badly, finds out he’s a wizard and finds out his parents have left him a mountain of gold (literally). Everyone either admires him or feels jealous as he is famous for “defeating” a particularly powerful wizard as a baby, without any damages besides a scar. He’s also part of a prophecy.

What about those self-inserts?

I guess we could still use the term as just a self-insert, but considering that most of the time we don’t know the writers, then we can only know their self-insertion if they tell us.

It also doesn’t justify its negative connotation. Writers are people, I presume, which means they have flaws. So why is a character based on oneself bad? Provided the writers are realistic and self-aware, those should be some of the most realistic characters. Now, I know there’s a trap in here, which is the tendency of favoring ourselves and make us just a bit (or a lot) more special than we actually are, but 1) this doesn’t necessarily happen to every self-insert; 2) that can happen whenever writers begin to favor a character for whatever reason, even if it wasn’t a self-insert, leading it to become more and more special or less flawed.

They’re the personification of perfection.

OK, except perfection seems to be kind of subjective, since what I like isn’t the same as everyone else’s. I mean I may like active characters and some may like passive characters. You may think perfection is pizza without pineapple, while I say “you are objectively wrong”.

Jokes asides, being different human beings, usually we end up writing “perfect” characters with our definition of it, which may not correspond to someone else’s.

For example, Bella Swan is called “Mary Sue” a lot for being perfect, but she’s deeply flawed. She’s co-dependent and suicidal. Edward Cullen is the one “Gary Stu” that actually stuck, yet he’s manipulative and a stalker. Yet, there is truth to the claim they are perfect, not to me, but to Stephanie Meyers as they are both idealizations to her, regardless of our opinions of them.

I suppose a character can be drop dead gorgeous, have all sorts of skills and being loved by everyone, but, eventually, he/she will make something that many will consider to be wrong. If that doesn’t happen, then there’s probability not a good conflict, which reveals that, maybe, the problem is in the story itself, not necessarily in the character.

Speaking of subjectivity in flaws and virtues…

“So why did you used to call Orihime a Mary Sue?”

Well, because I thought her flaws were inconsequential with Bleach begging me to sympathize with her for awful reasons and smart characters being really stupid, meaning causing unnecessary plot-hole or plot-contrivance for her. The few most glaring examples I recall (and I’ve read/watched Bleach at least half a century ago, so it’s possible there are a few lapses in my memory) being:

Her almost kissing Ichigo while he was unconscious. That scene is framed as if I am supposed to sympathize with her, instead of what it actually is: creepy as hell and also falls under almost sexual assault in many countries.

Her having an obsession for Ichigo to the point of only thanking him for coming for her in her mind, even though Rukia, Chad, Uryu and Renji were also there to save her. This again is framed as I’m supposed to empathize with her, instead of thinking she’s being narrow-minded and has an unhealthy obsession with Ichigo.

About others acting stupid: Uryu takes her to where Ichigo and Ulquiorra are fighting even though where they were before, Ichigo was losing cause he was holding back to avoid hurting her. Yes, the other place was bigger, but their powers were huge and Uryu taking Orihime should have been a stupid idea (and he’s supposed to be smart).

Not to mention, of course, she resurrects Ichigo by crying and yelling his name which was also major bullshit.

And yes, it’s time to talk about the gender-thing and to admit to my own prejudices despite being a woman, because Orihime isn’t the only character I know who has her flaws not being acknowledged or being perceived as good. Many male characters have all of those yet, I still don’t call them “Gary Stu” or any other male equivalent.

Sun Wukong from RWBY has pretty much all the same problems as Orihime: he stalks Blake for months yet faces no actual consequences. And his actions were framed in the show as “needed”, even though they weren’t since the entire Menagerie arc could be written without him with only minor changes. Creepy actions being framed as right and sympathetic – check.

He also abandons his team several times, which, again, was inconsequential (even if he confesses to being an awful leader in V6) and no way in hell a combat school would interrupt classes for an entire year. He’s completely oblivious of the Faunus struggle, though he’s a Faunus and goes to school in one of the most racist territories. And Blake goes from super paranoid to so relaxed she doesn’t even believe him when he says he saw a WF member wearing a mask for no apparent reason. If I had to guess it’s because if she kept being super paranoid, it would stand to reason she would be the one noticing Ilia spying all by herself, rendering him almost useless and without interrupting her talk to Ghira, which would have made Sun completely pointless. At some point, Orihime became all about Ichigo, Sun was always all about Blake (until V6).

Like I said, I have criticized Sun for being badly written, unnecessary and the contrivances his presence demanded, but I have never ever called a “Gary Stu”. Looking back, I think it’s a combination of a few reason:

I know “Mary Sue” is a term too subjective to be used without an explanation afterwards;

We just don’t tend to hold the same standards for male characters;

Even when we use them for male characters, it almost never sticks.

And I know I’m not the only one doing this.

Once, I came across an article that accused several characters of being a “Mary Sue”, including Orihime, but because she’s too perfect (are you sure about that?) and Sailor Moon, yet claimed Goku wasn’t one.  It’s particularly funny, because Sailor Moon is written to be more flawed than Goku (even if I much higher tolerance for Dragon Ball and DBZ to Sailor Moon).

Goku is an absent father and husband, yet his family never really holds that against him. His wife may complain about it a few times during the anime, but there’s no real strife between them and Gohan never holds it against him either. He gives Cell a senzu bean so that he and Gohan can have a fair fight, even though the entire world is at stake. It still is mostly inconsequential, until Gohan’s arrogance gets in the way.

Meanwhile, Sailor Moon is stupid, coward and petty many times, and it’s clear the writers knew it because they acknowledge those flaws within the show. She is mocked because of them, and her lack of resilience even leads to the death of one of the Sailors in a season finale, if I remember correctly (admittedly, I watched it 5 centuries ago, so I might be wrong). Yes, I know they come back from the death.

This is not an argument that Goku should be called a “Mary Sue/Gary Stu”, rather that the term is heavily gendered. It’s much more applied to female characters and even when used for a male one, it almost never sticks. Even in the example I gave, Edward Cullen, which was successfully labeled as “Gary Stu”, still feels like it was gendered-motivated. Not because of his own, obviously, but for the target audience’s: the majority girls and women. So there we notice another double-standard: the sex of the target audience also affects the claims to “Sueness”.

Ultimately, I have to agree with Dan, with the term “Mary Sue” being too subjective to actually have any validity and is deeply rooted in sexism. Explaining why a character doesn’t work for us  and why we think they’re badly written is far more productive. Let’s keep in mind, we aren’t supposed to like every character writers make, even the ones who are meant to be likable and relatable.

Note: Yes, I watched Overly Sarcastic Productions’ video on the subject. While I like Red’s take, I’d say almost no character in original fiction fits the mold. That in itself wouldn’t be the problem, but the fact that it will remain extremely subjective, I still find the term to be counter-productive, heavily gendered and it needs to die.

1 – https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

2 – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue