#tlj is a masterpiece

[supremeprince-bensolo]

The greatest teacher, failure is.

5 years of Star Wars: The Last Jedi (dir. Rian Johnson)

Released 15th December 2017

[trashquisitor-shirozora]

*enables you* what happened with TLJ 👃

After all these years I still can't properly find words to explain how deeply betrayed I felt after the credits rolled and I shuffled out of the movie theater with everybody else. There was a TON of hype surrounding this movie, an absolute fuckton. I only saw positive reviews about it, the cast, the director, the plot. I got excited to see where Rian Johnson & Co. would take the ST.

The only remotely negative comment I saw before watching the movie was a fandom blog saying they didn't like what happened to Poe. Since this blog was about racism in fandom, I knew something was off. That was my only warning.

And y'know, it was like, five minutes in? Ten minutes? And Poe makes a "Yo mama" joke at Hux? I used to go into movies with an open mind and spent days gathering my thoughts about them because I was always slow to react, slow to gather my thoughts into coherent strings of words. It's how I enjoyed Michael Bay productions and JJ Abrams' love affair with lens flare. I never got actively angry with a movie I was watching, and I was fucking angry by the time the movie ended. I still remember texting a friend while standing out in front of the theater because I was so confused. The response to TLJ was so positive so why did I come out of the movie so frustrated and confused and dissatisfied with the whole thing?

It's been years and we all know how this movie divided the Star Wars fandom and just... broke Fandom Spaces in a way I never expected. We all know what TLJ did and didn't do, and how TROS provided the final nail in the coffin that was the ST experiment. But back then, all I saw was positive commentary about the themes and messages of TLJ, how it portrayed failure and the dangers of putting someone like Luke Skywalker on a pedestal, how the Force was female, how... important it was to see Poe get characterized as a hotheaded hotshot who needed to be demoted, slapped around, and stunned in order to learn some kind of lesson, how important it was to see Finn lose everything he gained in TFA so that he could relearn how not to be selfish or something while starring in a fucking incredibly tone-deaf B plot, how Rey... I'm not sure exactly what because she didn't need training anyway and then spent most of her time trying to bring Ben Swolo back to the light????? Rose was so promising as someone who grew up under the FO's thumb but she and Kelly were fucking abandoned by Disney so I don't know if Rose existing was actually a good idea if it meant giving Kelly unending trauma. Mark slipped up by calling Luke "Jake" and expressing his displeasure in front of cameras, and I was so fucking baffled and alienated by his character after knowing how his story ended in ROTJ that I couldn't connect with whatever lessons I and he are supposed to be learning. JJ set up Snoke like a mystery box and Rian just yeeted him off without so much as a fucking explanation so what was the point of that? Hux was a fucking joke. Phasma was barely there. The only character that Rian cared about was fucking Kylo Ren and Adam says years later that he was never supposed to get a redemption arc anyway.

Like, this was the movie everyone hyped up? This was the movie that didn't answer any questions left unasked by TFA and didn't bother to move forward with character development for any of the known characters? I spent money watching a slow space chase that ended on a planet made of salt and killed off Luke for Reasons? Am I stupid? Am I dumb? Am I a peasant incapable of understanding the masterpiece Rian directed, this so-called Best Star Wars Movie Since ESB?

But I couldn't say anything. I couldn't be dogpiled for hating such a empowering movie for women, a diverse and inclusive movie that had the likes of John and Kelly and Oscar. I couldn't be lumped in with the Star Wars dudebros with their raging misogynistic and racist takes on the movie, the cast, Kathleen Kennedy and Lucasfilm, Disney, etc. I couldn't be seen as one of them just because I didn't like a movie that I should like, I'm supposed to like. So I sat in silence, read meta, witnessed the fucking catastrophic explosion around some wild ass AO3 fandom essays written by a racist OG member of OTW about Finn/Poe, saw hate piled on black and bipoc fans, saw r*ylo fans come for John and John clap back at them, just saw an absolute fuckton of hate, and so by the time TROS came around I just... checked out. There was no way JJ could salvage what Rian had done and I was right. TROS was a corporate-run soulless garbage end to the Sequel Trilogy, but it ended just as The Mandalorian finished its first season and regained a lot of good will with this small story about a lonely Mandalorian bounty hunter who encountered a Force-sensitive Baby Yoda.

And then TBOBF/Season 3 of the Mando Show happened, just like how TLJ happened. All the promise, all the unanswered questions of the previous movie/season, all fucking dropped or provided with the worst, most unsatisfying answer. I'm sure others have found better answers and can live with what Star Wars gave us, but I haven't been able to. TLJ came out years and years ago, and I am still so bitter today. I'm still so bitter because TFA had such an incredibly compelling setup with such promising characters, and then TLJ Did That.

I got so heated while writing this. I'm still so mad. I'm still so bitter. I bury my head so deep in the sandbox I built for myself so that I don't have to think how Disney is twisting and contorting all these Mando'verse shows so that they all eventually lead to the ST, their precious hot potato child that just... didn't have to end the way they did if they actually had a fucking plan and fucking stuck the landing. I'll give the MCU this - their Phase 1? They fucking stuck the landing. I fell off the train tracks and haven't really watched the MCU since Captain Marvel, but at least they had a fucking plan and didn't fucking derail themselves like Disney did with the Sequel Trilogy.

I could be nice to people who like this movie but I'm not going to be. They can be nice on their own blogs.

Man, I can't even watch Knives Out or Glass Onion because my blood starts boiling. Just. TLJ did a lot to ruin what I hoped would be a positive and creative connection with Star Wars, and it took the Mando Show and the 2 minutes where Din and Luke locked eyes on the Imperial light cruiser to bring me back.

I'm gonna stop before I get way too heated for sleep.

[tljisthegoat]

The Throne Room Scene is such a masterpiece of a scene. Everything from Rey confronting Luke about Kylo Ren to Rey standing tall against Snoke was masterfully done. Luke much like Yoda telling Rey to not go is such a nice touch too. Rey's absolutely broken about having to reject Ben. The complexity of Reylo's relationship coming to a breaking point because Rey couldn't completely reach Ben.

It's just sooo beautiful & tragic at the same time.

They were sooooooooooo close to being together at the end of TLJ.

[unexpectedreylo]

TLJ Revisited

TFA did not blow me away when it came out in 2015.  As a long-suffering prequels fan I didn’t like the anti-prequel dog whistles in the months leading up to the film, I didn’t like a lot of the crazed fanboys gushing how it was the best SW movie ever and thank goodness they wrested it away from that horrible George Lucas.  I didn’t like that Disney took Lucas’s outlines and for the most part trashed them, which publicly made Lucas unhappy.  While watching the flick, I was like a bitter ex noticing every flaw of the new trophy wife.  The story structure was not nearly as good as any of Lucas’s six films.  It was too derivative of ANH.  And worst of all, I had a real yucky feeling about what this trilogy was all about.  There was a nihilistic subtext to the whole thing:  Luke failed as a master, Han and Leia failed as parents, and the only scion of the Skywalker clan was almost certainly doomed for death since he was a bad guy and killed Han Solo.  It seemed like a setup so that new heroine Rey would essentially take over the story.  I couldn’t understand why it seemed I was the only person who seemed to notice this.

Then, five years ago, TLJ came out and for two years I had hope, even certainty, that maybe I’d misread the trajectory the trilogy was taking.

Dammit, I hate being right.

That said, TLJ remains something of a slightly nicked masterpiece.  It is the best film of the sequel trilogy, that’s for sure.  I liked the film when I first saw it.  I was pleasantly surprised and well, we all know how I feel about Reylo.  Yet when I look at what I wrote about the film right after seeing it, it seems like I was still pretty tough on it.  I think in retrospect I was still annoyed by a lot of aspects of TFA and the story elements it introduced.  

So five years on, I thought I would take an honest reassessment of the film.  The good, the great, the bad, and the ugly.

First I want to address the perpetual controversy around TLJ.  The curious thing about TLJ is how much anger it still inspires, to the point of irrationality.  It’s one thing if it’s not your favorite SW film or if you didn’t love it.  It’s one thing if you have problems with it.  But I make no secret of what I think of TROS and I still don’t hate everything about it nor do I spend all of my time complaining about it.  It’s almost as though a lot of the narrative and characterization problems TFA raised were ignored when the film came out and then when they inevitably materialized in TLJ, Rian Johnson got blamed for them.  Luke exiled himself to that island for a reason and Johnson had to find a pretty extreme reason to explain why Luke would take that drastic of an action.  The Luke in exile thing was one of the few aspects of Lucas’s outlines that actually made into the movies; he was set to go Col. Kurtz regardless.  But angry fans don’t care about any of this.  They think Johnson is some iconoclast who’s just tearing down Luke because he can.  Mark Hamill’s public complaints about it didn’t help.  The rest of it was anger over dashed theories over where TFA was going to go next.  Really, it’s nuts.  Who gets this excised over a movie?  How does any honest person sincerely believe Rian Johnson is a mean, hateful person who only wanted to destroy someone’s cherished memories of Star Wars?  

Okay, on to the movie itself.

A lot of what I still find flawed about the film comes from what was flawed about TFA.  The whole galactic set up made no sense to me and while Jason Fry’s TLJ book explains it to some degree, that explanation is missing from the film.  Lucas and Co. were great at worldbuilding while telling a story about a core of characters at the same time.  The sequel guys, not so much.  It’s just Empire vs. Rebels 2.0 without going into the how's or why's.  It still makes little sense to me is Luke saying he didn’t want to be found, he just wanted to live out his days on Ahch-To, yet there’s a map to find him.   

Another problem is how TLJ picks up immediately after TFA.  Johnson didn’t really have much of a choice because of how TFA ended.  So unlike the other SW films, there’s no narrative “breathing” room with this one.  There’s no opportunity for the characters to grow or relationships to build or even for the characters to process what has happened to them.  Compare that with TESB, where you can see Luke being a committed Rebel or a blossoming relationship between Han and Leia.  Or with AOTC, where Obi-Wan has been master to padawan Anakin for 10 years and Padme has become a senator.  I think that serves the Star Wars story better.  This way makes the ST feel like a movie adaptation of a really long book they broke into two or three parts.  And because Johnson had no idea what they were going to do in IX, his hand was forced to put everyone still alive back in their corners at the end of the film.

If I wasn’t going to include more of Rey and Kylo Ren, I would’ve included less of the rest of crew with the exception of Rey’s scenes with Luke.  Simply put, Reylo is by far the most interesting aspect of the sequel trilogy and TLJ’s scenes with them are so compelling it’s easy to lose patience with the other threads.  I don’t mind the Canto Bight stuff or Poe’s catfight with Holdo.  I love Rose.  But there seems to be a requirement that every sequel film must firmly focus on the Rebels because that’s who we’re cheering for.  The problem is that in TLJ, you have two elder Skywalkers with a smaller role and their only scion is “the bad guy” who has less screen time than any of the major heroes.  This continued the problem I had with TFA, that the Skywalkers were kind of side characters in their own saga.  Johnson tries to take Finn and Poe and craft actual story arcs for them but it was always a little unclear as to what their role was in the bigger scheme of things.  I guess we’re supposed to understand Poe is something of Leia’s heir apparent in the Rebel leadership but he’s also the house flyboy.  As I posted in my original review, Poe is Wedge Antilles with a bigger role.  Finn has a kinda clingy relationship with Rey and this bromance with Poe but he has no real connection with Luke, Leia, or Han.  There are good things about his arc in this movie but it doesn’t answer the question, what’s he doing there?  What does he bring to the table?  I wish they’d kept the stormtrooper rebellion in this film or in TROS.  And there’s no indication at all he has any affinity for the Force.  There seems to have been insufficient communication all around as to who these characters are, what they’re supposed to be doing or what they're supposed to become.

I’ll never understand why the sequels avoided any “alien” seen in episodes I-VI like the plague.  I never found the designs in the ST to be anywhere near as good, even factoring in the Rick Baker masks in ANH.

And if I may be so nitpicky, I don’t like the use of “big ass door.”  It seems too much our world, not the GFFA.

Finally, I find it interesting that after noting both sides use war profiteers and Rose delivers an eat the rich (profiteer) speech about Canto Bight, we got a might makes right conclusion where it’s all about kicking the bad guy’s butt.  The war’s on, baby!  Look, if your message is the bad guys are evil and it’s a cancer that needs to be removed from the galaxy, stick with that.  The other stuff is kind of a distraction that ultimately doesn’t mean anything to the narrative.

Okay, on to what I like/love about TLJ.  Namely, it’s a brash, bold, beautiful film that in a lot of ways was just what Star Wars needed.  I really worried this was going to be TESB Karaoke, and thank goodness Johnson had more sense than that.  It’s a movie that parallels TESB and AOTC with occasional nods to each film; Johnson understands the difference between homage and just repeating what some other movie did.  TLJ still feels like its own thing while adhering to the rhythm of the prior trilogies.

Johnson’s wisest decision was to get Adam Driver out of the Kylo Ren mask and take full advantage of Driver’s talent.  Sure, it probably made the marketing department mad but man, what a performance.  Today, I think that the timing of the film’s release and the trophy crowd’s disdain for Star Wars other than for the technical stuff, as well as other factors, hosed Driver out of a deserved supporting actor nomination.  Kylo Ren was popular before TLJ but this film turned him into one of the most memorable and complex characters in the nine film saga.  It also IMO made Adam Driver a bonafide star.

But Johnson is one of those “actor’s directors,” coaxing very good to terrific performances from his other cast members.  Daisy Ridley’s Rey in TLJ is absolutely luminous:  emotional, curious, occasionally funny, vulnerable, impulsive, compassionate, and in the heat of battle, feral.  In her scenes with Kylo/Ben, she meets him toe-to-toe whether as enemies or as allies with the hint of something else brewing between them.  As I’ll get to in my upcoming Reylo Heresies, I think we tend to forget that she commits wholeheartedly to Rey, which for a whole list of reasons isn’t an easy thing to do.  

Well, here’s another heresy for you...I think TLJ remains up there with TESB as Mark Hamill’s best turn as Luke Skywalker.  For all of Hamill’s kvetching and fanboy rage their hero was besmirched by that dastardly Johnson, Hamill did a great job.  Luke’s scenes with Rey are great and his cranky reluctance to embrace his destiny were well performed.  His great sadness at his own downfall and his wise wariness of a quickie conversion for Kylo add new depths to his character.  His final duel with Kylo is an amazing cap to his legend.  A lot of old fans like me were never happy that the ST set up our gang as failures and Luke’s behavior seemed a little harsh to me the first time I saw the movie.  Then through subsequent viewings it didn’t seem so bad.  I guess some fans never got over their initial shock.

Like I said, Johnson admirably sets up character arcs for newbies Poe and Finn while introducing new characters like Rose, DJ, and Admiral Holdo.  I’m happy to see Laura Dern in anything.  What a get.  Same deal for oddball Benedicio Del Toro as DJ.  Kelly Marie Tran got too much stick from idiots on the internet; her Rose is a delightful, charming character who teaches Finn what heroism really means and how to embrace something bigger than himself.  Domhall Gleeson gets some fun moments as General Hux, Gwendoline Christie drops by for a compelling final battle with Finn, and BB-8 is as adorable as ever.

This was Carrie Fisher’s last actual performance in Star Wars and there’s something fragile and vulnerable about her turn in this movie.  Few things can beat Luke’s reunion with Leia on Crait for pure poignancy.

Johnson also excels at visuals.  It’s a beautifully shot movie, whether its the harsh interiors of the Supremacy, Snoke’s red throne room, Ahch-To, or Crait’s salt plains.  The scene where Kylo and Rey touch hands is one of the greatest demonstrations of the need for connection and belonging I’ve seen in any movie.  I also love the part where Holdo goes into hyperspace right through the Supremacy, splitting it apart just as Kylo and Rey “come apart” and the Skywalker lightsaber is split in two.  I could go on and on about the many great shots in this movie.

Thematically, TLJ is very much in line with Johnson’s brand of populism.  While the Skywalkers struggle with the weight of legacy, Johnson elevates “regular” Rebels like Rose and establishes that Rey--everyone’s last hope-- is...nobody.  TLJ makes the case that anyone could come from anywhere and be a hero.  Even the “villain” could be heroic for a minute or two if he lets himself.

It also makes the case that the purpose of legends is to inspire those people in the first place.  This is demonstrated at the end of TLJ, unique among SW films in that it doesn’t feature the main characters in its coda.  A slave kid on Canto Bight is inspired by Luke’s story, telling his friends about it as they play with their action figures, then holding up his broom stick like a lightsaber.  TLJ is unique in that it’s the only SW film to basically comment on SW itself.  

As for Reylo, I think TLJ accomplished two things by emphasizing and building upon their relationship.  One is that it made each character more interesting.  Prior to TLJ I found Kylo the most intriguing of the newbies but I wasn’t terribly invested in him or Rey until this film.  The other is putting them together opened so many possibilities.  It’s tragic in retrospect that TROS didn’t take greater advantage of them.  Reylo isn’t just hot or sexy, it’s also mythic.

So that’s my look back at TLJ.  Stay tuned for the heresies!

[redrascal1]

The future of the Skywalkers is not Rey

Disney are....angry.

They decided to get rid of the Skywalker family, and move forward with new characters. One character in particular: Rey.

She was the protagonist of the ST. We were meant to fall madly in love with her. We were meant to see her as the 'champion' of the ST, the hero, the one everyone was cheering for.

And at first...we did.

Daisy is a fine actress, pretty, charismatic and engaging. Her background as a lowly scavenger meant that audiences could identify with a 'nobody'. I liked her. Many liked her.

And then....Kylo Ren took off his helmet.

From the moment these two first faced each other, the screen lit up. The chemistry between them was electric. Reylos saw it. Critics saw it.

And Rian Johnson saw it.

I think the best description of Rian's film comes from o0-snowdrop-0o

Both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi built up a beautiful romance plot between two, mistreated lonely souls who were destined to be together. 

Their unconditional love supposed to bring balance to the Force. Create balance in the Galaxy.

 Rian Johnson made a masterpiece. 

His film was full with mythological, fairy tale-alike elements. No wonder his movie is the most beloved one of the sequels trilogy.

No wonder why George Lucas called it beautifully made.

Rian introduced this connection in a unique, gorgeous way. Their force bond was a blessing. It made possible for Ben and Rey to reach out for each other through time, through space to give comfort, show love for one and other. Their romantic relationship was deep, sensual, spiritual, gentle and innocent. 

Couldn't put it better myself.

The relationship between protagonist and antagonist was the heart and soul of the trilogy. Most of all, the incredible sexual chemistry between the two actors. TLJ received a tremendous amount of critical acclaim, developed all of the characters beautifully and set everything up for what should have been a spectacular conclusion to the Skywalker Saga.

And then we got...TROS.

Ben Solo's redemption thrown in as an afterthought, purely to save Rey. Adam's screentime cut. All of the cast reduced to utter ridiculousness.

All to push...Rey Skywalker.

Disney wanted us to fall in love with Rey. Instead the audience fell in love with Kylo.

Which is what lies at the heart of their disgraceful treatment of Adam and his character.

Finn fans hate reylos. After Ben was killed off several of them voiced their delight at the prospect of a Finn/Rey romance. But, it wasn't because of them that Disney killed off Ben. It wasn't because of some weird notion that 'reylo is a white supremacist ship' (quote from Medium).

It's simply because in a poll asking viewers who they wanted to see the most in TROS was won by Kylo/Ben.

By a landslide.

Kylo Ren - 80% of the votes

Rey - second at just 5%.

Even people who disliked the ST consider Adam to be the best thing about it. He gave a sensational performance, despite Disney wanting us to despise him by having him kill his father. When he won that poll....they were furious.

So, they have done everything to destroy the affection people still have for the character.

Pointing out that he 'had to die because of what he'd done.' Nonsense.

'Once Upon A Time' featured several characters who had done worse but got their 'happy endings'. And don't even get me started on the Netflix film Damsel, where a mass murdering female dragon is allowed to live and even befriends the heroine, because at the beginning her daughters were killed by a king. Just as Ben was the victim of abuse, abandonment and brainwashing for most of his life.

Disney want to push their new agenda: women rule.

Women rock.

Women are far better than men

Women don't need men.

Look at their recent offerings. The Acolyte features a predominantly female cast with one even giving birth to twin daughters 'through the Force'. Willow was supposed to be about Warrick Davies's titular character, instead it was about two female protagonists. Even Marvel movies, the company owned by Disney, are making films all about women.

Problem is...this is not what women want.

The Acolyte is failing in the ratings. Willow was cancelled after just one season. The Marvels, about three female superheroes, was a flop.

And..guess what? A survey has discovered that the most popular shows among women aren't Willow or The Acolyte...they are Mandalorian and Andor.

Women want to watch hot, sexy men like Diego Luna and Pedro Pascal. And quite a few LGBTQ+ viewers do, as well.

WE don't want Mary Sues we can't identify with. We want strong women who also have a heart. And yes, we want to see great male characters. Characters like Luke and Han, and Lando.

Like Ben.

Rey has been destroyed as a character. Disney, refusing to see what they've done, intend to carry on her story as 'Force goddess' no matter what.

Obviously they have money to burn.

[themattress]

Damn it, this movie just won’t leave me alone!

This is sort of a follow-up to this post, where I analyzed that the primary reason critics of the film hated it, beyond getting overtly invested in the culture war surrounding TLJ, was due to them realizing that Disney/Lucasfilm never had a solid plan for the trilogy (not that George Lucas did for his movies either, but still) and no overarching creative vision other than one that was tragically sabotaged by life (make Carrie Fisher / Leia the star of Episode IX and the one who holds the key to resolving the trilogy and whole saga). That’s what leads to them accentuating the negative qualities of the movie while downplaying or flat-out ignoring the positive qualities (and sometimes turning positives into negatives due to their willful lack of understanding or imagination). And they’re entitled to their opinions, though I wish they’d fully own it rather than hold any pretense of objectivity, but what I am coming to realize more and more is that I don’t just disagree; I am the diametric opposite in how I see the whole situation.

Critics and fans were so invested in this idea of a super cohesive trilogy following a planned story, but I wasn't because I knew almost immediately that this wasn't the case. There were different directors attached to each movie and no single screenwriter attached to all of them, plus Kathleen Kennedy was not in a creative oversight position nor did she have anyone else like, say, Dave Filoni filling one. Obviously they were making it up as they went along, so my main concern was on the films individually and whether they created a good Star Wars experience. And TROS is the purest of Star Wars experiences: no quasi-remaking of a previous film or pushing an eccentric auteur-driven agenda, it just has fun and revels in its cheesy goofiness and wholesomeness; it’s what the franchise was literally founded upon.

Critics and fans were invested in the internal lore lining up and making sense; in the usage, behavior and outcomes of certain characters; in the culture war and social ramifications following TLJ, and I was absolutely not. I knew that the lore is Play-Doh prone to being remolded on a whim and that all the finer details in the movies rarely make sense until supplementary material is made to do so; I knew that finding the characters interesting and enjoyable was more of a priority to me than holding firm to any pre-conceived notions; and I fucking hated the culture war and felt like for the most part both sides were making mountains out of molehills. Freed from those burdens, TROS’ creative choices didn’t bother me much.

Critics and fans HATED Palpatine being brought back since he wasn’t anywhere to be found in the previous movies, he brought the trilogy’s conflict back to familiar ground after TLJ started breaking new ground, and he was used as a key puzzle piece to elements such as Rey’s lineage and Kylo Ren’s redemption. But I concur with this post; Palpatine is one of the greatest fictional villains of all time and I am 100% OK with any means of getting to see him and Ian McDiarmid’s pitch-perfect performance as him on screen, and if Disney/Lucasfilm wanted me to buy this new trilogy as the final third of a nine-part “Skywalker Saga”, there was no better way to do it than having its Big Bad be the same one from the previous trilogies. 

Critics and fans just adored TFA and TLJ and I just didn't get it. Not that I don't also like them or think they're bad movies; far from it! But a modern remake of A New Hope and a deliberate attempt to make a new The Empire Strikes Back (in a different way than literally remaking it) just don't strike me as cinematic masterpieces. TROS certainly isn't one either, but it's not trying to be, it's just trying to be a good time. And while critics and fans deem TROS to be a disappointing ending because it didn't meet their expectations, my expectations were low. Barring a complete perversion of Star Wars' core morality come straight out of a bad fanfic or old EU project (so, what Colin Trevorrow's plan was), I was willing to accept any ending, and I was pleasantly surprised I enjoyed the one we got as much as I did. It helps that, like J.J Abrams and Chris Terrio, I did my homework on the creation of Star Wars and all the junk it borrowed for inspiration with reckless abandon, so I caught on to what TROS was up to right away; from a purely out-of-universe perspective it’s the perfect way for Star Wars to end!

It really is exactly what this post said, except that I didn’t have to “unlearn what I have learned” because I never let myself learn it to begin with. I just looked at Star Wars with unclouded eyes and took it for all that it is, the good and the bad. That’s why I love TROS.

[spider-xan]

Thinking about TLJ reminded me of how much I fucking hated it for so many reasons, including the racist treatment of Finn and John Boyega as the worst offender, and was looking forward to critiquing it as a group with my online circle of friends and acquaintances, only to discover that everyone else thought it was the greatest masterpiece of cinema in the history of cinema bc it suBveRTed eXPecTatiOns and was super feminist and philosophically deep, and if you hated it, you're obviously a racist misogynist who thinks women and POC don't belong in Star Wars, and anyway, I laughed my ass off when everyone saw TROS and cried over how terrible it was while I had jumped ship after TLJ bc I knew what was coming lol

[theglassfloor]

It's 6 years since Rogue One came out, and someone asked me how I'd rank it among the films. I realized, I don't have the easiest time ranking things numerically (also I have nothing resembling good taste), and actually--I know this is a wiener of an answer--any of them could be counted as my "favorite" depending on how I'm feeling that day...well maybe not Solo. Not because it's bad, but because they can't all be favorites.

My thoughts:

TPM - nostalgia

AOTC - visually spectacular, I'm a sucker for the love confession, I'd also like to romp around Naboo with my SO

ROTS - gave us the meme of Palpatine going "No, no no". That's my brain when I tell it we need to stop slacking off and be responsible.

R1 - a great movie, even if it makes me sad.

ANH - the first of its kind. Groundbreaking. Marvelous.

Empire - me watching it for the first time at 12: "He's his father? Wow, it's like one of those soap operas we watch when we're at Grandma's. Neat."

ROTJ - finally a happy ending. Let's hope this one sticks.

TFA - Are Poe and Finn...you know...because they should be.

TLJ - misunderstood

TROS - my husband called it a "masterpiece". And he's not a Star Wars fan. So out of love I'm inclined to agree.

[henlp]

Been wondering

Why is it, that even if I recognize some piece of media is of quality, and on top of that I enjoyed said piece of media, I inevitably find myself with little to no investment in its continuation or its current status quo.

I began thinking about it, because on top of the few things coming out that are good and I like, I find myself more and more jaded with regards to even a good, thorough roasting. “Yeah, that went deep on why this is horrid, but since I didn’t watch it myself, this is probably the furthest I’ll go into interacting with the piece of shit, and won’t even bother coming back to this bonfire either”.

And I think this is because something being quasi-unanimously considered good/bad doesn’t do much to captivate interest. A dialogue is required, on any topic, to get to the meat of the matter. Taking the piss, that’s one thing, because you’re going out of your way to mock the material at hand; but a full analysis can only take you so far. Whether it’s for something that’s good or bad, you need pushback, you need arguments to address, be them strong or fucking retarded and delusional.

I have a strong feeling that this is why I simply do not care about making fun or breaking down why MCU sludge or Star Wars trash are terrible, because the more time goes on, the meeker the defense force and less investment there is from die-hard fanatics to damage control for each atrocious new entry in these clusterfuck franchises. There is no fun to be gained, if you’re only going through the motions. And the same applies for something that is good and gets very little credible pushback on why it isn’t. Not only that, but the test of time makes it so that, inevitably, a consensus will be solidified, and only new information can alter it.

In contrast, I think this is why both The Last Jedi and Joker kept themselves in the public dialogue and spheres of media discussion for so long. There was such a divisive, clashing debate for either, that everyone was trying to set up the best possible arguments for why their perspective was accurate. Putting aside any mud-slinging, TLJ being an abomination of cinema while Joker managed to be a modern masterpiece with such contrasting public perceptions depending on whom you asked, which kept the conversation going and hooked your interest, even if you didn’t like either.

There’s only so much that can be done without external influence. Regardless if you’re talking about good or bad media, inevitably, you’re going to need honest pushback (even if inaccurate) to compel interest in your breakdowns. After all, if I’ve no investment in the source material to begin with, and it somehow keeps going despite how bad it is, what would be my motivation in the conversation.

[butnottome-mrssolo]

To me the end of TROS in not an ending. Rey alone, Ben disappearing (curiously).. no chance at love, no hope..The dyad “you live together, you die together “

It’s an opening ..when and where that is the question

But Disney would be completely stupid to kill the trangenerationnal saga that is SW and the Skywalker

You don’t kill La poule aux oeufs d’or.. the goose that lay the golden egg..

[myflairway]

Just when we all thought Reylo couldn’t be even more validated, Rian Johnson gives us even more evidence.

After all the good news from this past week, that confirm that Reylo is real and canon in TLJ and give us Reylos life, Rian Johnson proves there is still more evidence for our ship. These are his exact words that he said in an interview for the Empire Film podcast:

“From his [Kylo’s] POV, it’s a very naked, open, emotional appeal. It’s his version of ‘I’m just a girl standing in front of a guy asking [him to love her].’ It’s Kylo’s sick, evil version of that but from his perspective... That’s his experience of that moment & I think he’s telling it honestly.”

We have said it again and we will continue to state this over and over again for the next two years:

Ben Solo loves Rey

Kylo Ren did not lie to Rey

and

Reylo is canon.

I have to credit the quote to @sleemo because she is an absolute hero in the Reylo fandom.

[assortedfruitsnacks212]

Can Rian Johnson just go ahead and teach an online class about how to write a damn good story? Because I would sign up for that shit in a heartbeat.

[supremeprince-bensolo]

No one’s ever really gone.

4 years of Star Wars: The Last Jedi (dir. Rian Johnson)

Released 15th December 2017

[tljisthegoat]

JJ Abrams is one of the most boring directors of all time. Why? Because he truly can't make an original movie that makes me feel in any way possible. His cinematography? Wack. Him copying Rian Johnson after retconning TLJ? Wack. His ability to work with actors and get the best performances outta them? Wack. His ability to use mystery boxes that he LOVES using without any understanding on HOW to use them? Wack. His understanding of Reylo (which he started ironically enough lmaooo) Wack.

His understanding of Star Wars? Wack. Him being a corporate stooge? Wack (like seriously grow a backbone & stop taking it like a bitch from the mouse). His use of themes & messages to really make a memorable movie beyond the typical popcorn flick? Wack.

Star Trek fans tried to warn us about him. Unfortunately, we didn't listen.

He's right there next to Joss Whedon. The Butchers of Beloved Franchises.

When you see a movie directed by either of these men, you just wonder how they got so lucky directing some of the most iconic movies in cinema history. Instead of unique directors like Zack Snyder & Rian Johnson, who both made absolute masterpieces.

You compare TLJ & BVS to TFA, TROS & Josstice League, and it's like comparing a timeless magnum opus to a dumpster fire.

[frumfrumfroo]

People don't want to admit TLJ wasn't perfect either. Rian gave way too much screentime to the side characters and their storyline. I love Kelly, but even Rose had more screentime than Adam, the protagonist, who played the Skywalker in the Skywalker Saga. FinnRose took over the "Reylo" screentime. The main romance. Literally. Rian directed Leia as an ignorant mom who cares more about Poe then her own child. Pple give him too much credit. Kylo even had less s.time in TLJ than in TFA ffs🙏

I’m not one of those people. I’ve always said that TLJ isn’t perfect, you can scroll back, but it was genuinely good, thoughtful, and sincere which is more than can be said for the rest of the st. It’s thematically on point, it understands sw, it’s full of life, and it made it briefly appear that LF knew exactly what they were doing with the basic emotional outline even if the execution could have been a lot better.

I’d just... have to take issue with some of your reasoning. Ben is the thematic centre of the story, but he was not the protagonist. Rey is the protagonist. We can discuss why she isn’t a good protagonist and why she has no business being the protagonist if the point of her journey isn’t to save Ben (the Skywalker) with unconditional love, but that inarguably is her position in the narrative.

I agree he should have had more screentime, though quantity isn’t everything. The weight of his presence dominates the entire Force plot and drives all of Rey’s character development, so it feels like he has more content than he actually does, but definitely a few more intimate moments would have greatly benefited the story. I’m not going to rail on Rian too much for the structural issues the film has, because he was written into numerous corners by the slapdash nature of TFA which left him a lot of difficult problems to solve and he was obviously trying to be as respectful as humanly possible both to his predecessor and his successor. He left the plot wide open and trusted LF to finish the character arcs he’d built without having their hands tied, which he shouldn’t have in retrospect. He was trying to have TLJ be its own film with its own identity as well as backinterpreting TFA into coherent arcs for both the OT characters and the new characters and it’s too much to deal with.

Leia treats Poe like what he is- a subordinate whom she likes. There’s no competition to be drawn between that relationship and her feelings towards Ben- she is not Poe’s mum and doesn’t ever act like his mum. I’ve discussed the lack of intimacy between Ben and the OT characters a couple times, but TLJ is still a massive improvement over TFA, a lot of it is again inherited structural wonkiness, and if she were to reach out to him a third time there’d be no final movie because he would have come home. The Ben/Leia and Ben/Luke relationships are set up to be fleshed out/resolved later as Ben becomes more receptive and able to consider forgiveness, they just never were.

Some of this is also a problem with how sw movies work, what their priorities are and how they treat serious drama (as giant tableau moments, not with psychological realism), and I’m not going to single TLJ out for something that is consistent across the entire franchise. He could have done more, but if the foundation had been strong he wouldn’t have had to and he shouldn’t have had to (for Leia, that is, we can blame him for the lack of emotional content in Luke’s relationship with Ben, but the film already spends huge amounts of time on Luke and it’s not feasible for him to discuss this with Rey so I can see the dilemma he must have had). The main emotional threads being in separate post codes was a hard thing to overcome without having Leia just sit down and exposit about her feelings. This would have been solved by a good third film that brought the threads together in the first act.

The Fathier chase is too long and that would be time better spent on nearly anything else, won’t argue there. But Rose is a key character who gives the thesis statement of the film and her substantive screentime is not misplaced. Less substantive stuff could have been trimmed, sure.

The whole st is... unfocussed... and there was only so much that could ever be mitigated by anyone coming in after the fact, no matter how talented. Under the circumstances, I find TLJ’s weaving of straw into gold very, very impressive and I am going to keep giving Rian a tonne of credit for that.

[redrascal1]

Browsing through the SW fan forums I have either quit or been banned from...

....makes me realise I don’t belong with this fandom anymore.

I’ve never been a fan of the spin off shows or EU books. As a fellow reylo once wisely said, they are the dessert, the films the main courses. That’s how I feel.

I’m reading some genuinely nice posts where fans are full of excitement for the forthcoming films, for the Mandalorian, and it just leaves me....cold. I see posts from Rey fans looking forward to her new film, from Finn fans thrilled he’s coming back...

....it leaves me cold.

I have had to resign myself to the fact that post Ben Solo’s untimely death, there is absolutely nothing left about SW that appeals to me. Unlike many ‘olde fans’, I can’t watch the OT again and pretend the sequels didn’t exist because the ST is where I found my all time favourite character...Kylo Ren, aka Ben Solo, aka Adam Driver.

Heck, I loved that character.

He has even eclipsed Han Solo in my affections. 

I find it hard to believe that DLF could create such an amazing character...then throw him away...for what?

I really really would like to know just exactly why they chose to sacrifice this character. 

He’s more interesting than a dozen Reys, or Finns, or Poes. 

Yet Rey is getting her own film, Finn will be alongside her and Poe may yet appear. While there do not seem to be any plans to resurrected Ben. Ironic, as they brought Palpatine back.

I have to say, I have not one.jot. of interest in the forthcoming film. Who wants to see the tired old Jedi order with its tired old dogma being restored yet again. Even George Lucas saw their faults; in the PT they were shown in what to me was a very unpleasant light - they took Anakin because of his potential, not to save him from slavery - they couldn’t care less about that. Who wants to see Rey continue her journey into goddess hood? TROS made me sick of the sight of her. And frankly - post his nasty comments on twitter and his behaviour towards Loan Tran, I’m not one bit interested in seeing John Boyega pick up a lightsabre and strut across the screen as Rey’s adoring consort.

 No thanks. Leave that to his obsessed fans on the JCF. 

TLJ opened the door to so much new material. A war that didn’t involve an ‘evil sorcerer’ but two factions believing they were right. Two souls coming together to completely reinvigorate the ‘Jedi’ order. A brainwashed child soldier liberating his former comrades.

But, Rian’s masterpiece got trashed and we, the audience, ended up with TROS, a film so awful it’s hard to accept as ‘canon’. And DLF intend to continue where it left off.

I must say....there will never be another Star Wars franchise for me. But, there will never be another Ben Solo. And the loss of the latter has sadly, driven me permanently away from the former.