#tlt speculation

[elfieafterdark]

I'm sure everybody else in the fan already knows this, and I'm pretty sure I've brought it up before in conversation.

But can we just talk for a quick minute here about the parallels between John and Alecto, and Harrow and Gideon?

Harrow is like minijohn. She is a person born/reborn out of the deaths of many. John was 10 billion, Harrow was 200, but the process is the same and John sort of implies this comparison himself in HtN

It's definitely not difficult to see the parallels between the two of them, I believe it is a theme of HtN. John feels a kinship with her, even if he sicks his ginger attack dog on her.

Alecto and Gideon is a bit more obscure. First of all they are both sword ladies. After shenanigans they both have gold eyes, and in the beginning of htn, the body is intentionally described vaguely enough that I couldn't tell if it was Alecto or Gideon.

They are both devoted to their God, but feel betrayed by them. Both hold the fate of their world in their hands (Alecto literally being Earth, and Gideon being a comb pick (look it up) for the Locked Tomb.

They both "die" but that doesn't seem to slow them down. Both are inextricably linked to John and Harrow. And they are roomies inside Harrow's head for a little bit, which is something I figure more fanfics would cover but they don't... So I'll have to do it myself.

I don't really have like a snappy conclusion to these musings, I don't think I can draw anything from this to predict any sort of interactions or events in Alecto the Ninth.

It's just marvelous, it's like standing in the middle of a forest on an early spring morning when all the birds are singing, and you just appreciate the beauty and depth of the moment.

The locked tomb is my favorite novel series not because it's full of hot goth nuns, not because it features bones in space which are two of my favorite things, but because of the depth. The insurmountable depth of the narrative and the world.

It's beautiful, and if you haven't read it yet you need to. I don't care if you get upset with the ending of gtn, nut and or ovary up and get on it.

[shouldhavebeenpersephone]

So I was re-reading Nona. And. Have we talked about this yet? Have we gone through the implications of this section?

NtN John 5:4. Analysis under the cut.

I always assumed the tower was a part of the Ninth because right after this chapter Nona sees the tower in the River and after that drives the truck everyone is in to the Ninth. But nowhere does it say that the tower is the Ninth.

I mean, looking at the description it certainly sounds like it - all grey and death, which is why I assumed it was. The Ninth is tall even if embedded inside of a planet, one could argue shafts are towers. But why would a tower of the Ninth be in the River?

First things first; the tower in Tarot stands for sudden change, confusion and awakening - I don't feel this needs further explanation on why it's relevant (I might, however, someday do a Tarot Locked Tomb analysis because there is A LOT there). It also refers to the Tower of Babel, which was destroyed by God along with the uniform language of Earth so that people would not come so close to Him again, so that they stayed vincible. Sound familiar?

John did make a uniform language technically, but he also separated the population to different planets, rendering them unable to unite and overcome him not only due to instilled nationalism but also due to the faults in the Houses. We know that the Sixth is struggling to keep up their lineages and population number - we know the Fourth die too young to really leave anything behind - we know the Second is too busy fighting wars.

This leads me to believe that whatever the tower represents will be the end of the world as they know it - maybe through a new God and an end to the Houses, maybe the end of Godhood and Lyctorhood in general. Either way, something is piercing through the River - something that has the power to change it all.

NtN Chapter 30. Nona's mind knew what it was "above" and "below". Does this refer to Harrow and Alecto?

Now let's go back to that first passage from John 5:4. The parts that stand out to me are 'speared-through and mute', 'a tower that soared, impossible and deadly grey', and 'lurching out of the River as though gasping for air.' All of this sounds like Gideon.

GtN Chapter 37. Very much speared-through and mute.

NtN Chapter 16. Ramrod posture? Soaring, impossible and deadly grey.

NtN Chapter 25. And Gideon knows what's in the River. Chances are that the tower is a construct created by John for whatever purposes. Gideon is also a construct created by John - at least Kiriona is.

I obviously don't know how accurate this connection my brain jumped on is, but it honestly makes a lot of sense to me. There is something below the River, just like how 'reality' is above the river. Especially when considering Nona referred to a thought above and below that knew what the tower was, it appears to me like the below is a plane much like reality and the River where things exist and can continue to exist. I have not yet sat with or developed an opinion on what exactly might be there, but there is something there. I think it might be the cavaliers.

So what if Gideon ended up there? What if, when she ended up in the River at the end of HtN, Gideon ended up in the below once Alecto was forced into Harrow's body? What if John knew all along how to reach there and he finally decided this was the time to bring something - no - someone back?

But you can't really reach the other plane without the River, can you? We have seen it with the Resurrection Beasts - they travel through the River and exist in it while simultaneously being above it. And, if we look at Palamedes, one who has passed and is part of the River needs a container of sorts to be above. Perhaps, then, one can sink while tethered higher in the three layers, but one cannot soar from below without a container to carry them up. An integrated cavalier is forced down, not reaching up - they are buried in the below.

So let's say John brought Gideon back. Her corpse would obviously be the container for her above. The tower, then, could be her container for the River. Ianthe could be using Gideon's aberration in the River as a means to anchor herself as well. That could be why they are the Tower Princes.

Alecto would know the tower was a gateway of sorts. She would understand, like presumably any other Resurrection Beast would understand. But Harrow. Harrow.

GtN Chapter 36. I cannot let go of this passage in relation to the tower. "Instead, she was Drearburh." "She took the whole putrid, quiet, filth-strewn madness of the place, and she opened her doors to it."

Cavaliers' tethers are shown through the eyes, through altering the look of that which binds them to above - so, maybe through being Gideon the tower became Drearburh. Maybe Harrow saw it, and felt it, and she saw Gideon, and she saw home. So she walked, and she walked, and she knew that it would lead back to her.

The tower - Gideon, then, will be the changer of things in the end. Maybe Gideon and Harrow, but definitely Gideon.

[tappytoeclaws]

I found some lovely TLT cosplayers at Bristol yesterday and we got some pics together 💜

[susurra-el-arroyo-manso]

Many people have pointed out that in The Locked Tomb books Gideon's conception parallels that of Jesus. However, I've noticed that many people also conflate "The Virgin Birth" with "The Immaculate Conception" when these actually refer to two different biblical events/concepts that have different implications for TLT. The Virgin Birth refers to the conception/incarnation and subsequent birth of Jesus without intercourse. The Immaculate Conception refers to the conception of Mary without original sin, making her an appropriate "vessel" to later become pregnant with Jesus.

Following the parallels in The Locked Tomb universe, The Virgin Birth still tracks with the conception and birth of Gideon (despite Wake being most def not a virgin, the conception didn't involve intercourse). We would then expect The Immaculate Conception to parallel Wake's conception.

Given the lack of information around Wake's origin, this distinction is super interesting to me. Was Wake somehow born without the BOE original sin of the billionaires who abandoned the rest of the earth? What could that mean for her origin? How would that fit with what bits we do know about her? Did that somehow enable her to conceive and carry Gideon when the dolls failed?

Personally, I think it would be interesting if Wake were descended from someone that was on the ships as a crew member or other non-billionaire. Maybe she was even on a ship herself, given the potential time-weirdness of FTL travel. Alternatively, maybe she was actually house-born, or descended from a house making her exempt from BOE's original sin (but the product of a whole host of others...). It seems like there might be a few things hinting at that option (eye color, hair color), but if so, how'd she end up leading BOE?

Lots of interesting questions! No answers of course, but I'm sure that Tamsyn is familiar with these two concepts, and I'm so curious to see if she weaves in aspects of the immaculate conception if we learn more about Wake's backstory in Alecto.

[azuredragoonterra]

Hey hey hey.

Wasnt John gonna ship a bunch of old resurrected bodies to the ninth house?

And then next time we see the place its dealing with a demon infestation....

Uhhhhhhh??!?

[justsomeguycore]

wait. maybe i did learn something new on this ntn reread. does crux hate gideon so much because when harrow has her episodes she has alecto’s eyes, which crux sees as gideon’s eyes?

[beedreamscape]

With all this conversation about soul permeability, I'm now very interested in the return/survival of Augustine and his (and Cassie's) theories on spirit and soul magic.

But especially so that Ianthe can crawl over to him dripping with venomous guilt and shamelessness and beg him to tell her the soul is whole and impenetrable.

All the while seeing that the blankness, the emptiness he carries, is from him having shut down, for thousands of years, the parts of Alfred that once bloomed in him.

"Sorry, chick, we're sponges, not stones. Either soaked through or honeycombed with the emptiness the liquid leaves behind."

A lyctor carves in their chest a cavalier-shaped hole that will forever remain, and only that person, only their love can fill it.

[justsomeguycorps]

wake is third truther evidence:

silas tells gideon she looks third and has her mother’s hair phenotype

valency and wake and gideon have red hair

valency and awake remembrance of these valiant dead both have the “valens” etymology root

ortus nigenad is an anagram for gideon saturn, the third is theorized to be on or orbit saturn

harrow cites a section of the noniad where nonius fights side by side with a cavalier secondary of the third - in ortus’s interpretation, he calls her “sister”, but what if nonius fucked a descendent of valency, and wake and gideon are not only descended from valency but also from him

[beyondthetemples-ooc]

Have I mentioned this yet--? I don't think I've mentioned it yet. Particularly because my main undergirding for the theory is all gut feelings and Nexus vagueness.

I don't think Gideon and Harrowhark will achieve "perfect Lyctorhood". I don't think that's the point. I'm not sure Lyctorhood is the goal at all. Not anymore.

Every time we've seen a Lyctor form, it has been out of deceit or desperation or necessity. Yes, including Paul-- they were killing each other!

In a series that's so multi-faceted and shows so many perspectives and personalities and relationships, not ONCE have we seen Lyctorhood as anything but a heartbreaking horror once the truth was revealed.

I will admit, now that I'm typing it out, maybe a griddlehark Perfect Lyctor will be the first to show that it's possible to do otherwise. But I don't think it would be thematically appropriate.

Like I said, I can't quantify why I feel this way like other theorists can, but I felt this way for No Known Reason after reading GtN, and it has only grown stronger with every book.

[shouldhavebeenpersephone]

Oh she knew MUCH more.

In GtN after the Ninths finds the Fifth, we get the following scene:

She was already eating Babs.

Then there is the matter of the trials - the og Lyctors didn't leave those for them, these trials were there to help the first batch figure out what to do. Did Jod come up with the trials? Who else than the first necromancer could have shown them?

The og Lyctors (from what I gathered from dialogue with Mercy and Augustine at least) figured out that Alecto was John's cavalier after becoming Lyctors. They first had to understand Lyctorhood before they drew the lines to John's power. They were granted skills their cavaliers held, and since John is able to perform things Resurrection Beasts can, they must have figured out Alecto was one and that she was his cavalier.

Ianthe did the opposite. She didn't only reverse engineer the mega-theorem, but she reverse engineered Godhood. She studied what happened and figured out God must have eaten a planet, started applying this to Babs, saw that it worked, and her arrival on the First confirmed it - the thanergy signature of the First was all wrong. Then, using that information, she figured out Lyctorhood. (She couldn't have done the trials because Babs didn't even know the basement existed, and we know she would have needed him to complete them. She didn't fucking need the trials.)

I am so extremely curious on what Ianthe's intentions are. Why did she bring Coronabeth to Canaan? She presumably knew they could never go back, at the start of GtN she assumes Teacher dropped their ships into the waters. If she knew so much already, why wait until the end to use it?

I think Ianthe was aiming higher than Lyctorhood. Or still is. Once she recognized she wouldn't get out alive, she ate Babs and became a Lyctor. In HtN we see her experiment with non-decaying apples - I think she is experimenting with energy transferrence to give away some of her own, not to consume. She is working towards Godhood, towards being able to provide energy to others. To Coronabeth.

Or not, it's all speculation. Tamsyn has done such an incredible job at making Ianthe come across so drab that we, the readers, treat her the same way people in-universe do - she goes unnoticed mostly. I cannot wait to see what scheme she pulls in AtN.

I’M SORRY, were we just gonna GLOSS OVER the fact Ianthe knows SO MUCH MORE than she ever lets on in htn and ntn?? My brain completely glossed over this part and holy—

[elfieafterdark]

Here's some unhinged and probably entirely incorrect speculation about the nine houses. Tonight I'm specifically thinking the Fifth.

I personally assume that The Fifth is the Jupiter system. With 95 known natural satellites, many of which are planetary sized, allows the Fifth to exert an enormous amount of power within the Nine Houses and beyond.

The four primary moons would most likely feature significant populations housed by large radiation resistant habitats. Perhaps they're drilled into the surface like the Ninth to shield themselves somewhat.

But I imagine that unlike Drearburh, the cities on the 5th are enormous. With such an extensive system of moons would give them ample space to convert into arable land via terraforming or habs.

Industry must also be through the damn roof, again amounting to the staggering amount of resources they'd have access to.

It must be a major political power by the social pressure of such a large population, by the resource richness of having a spacious place that is significantly closer to Dominicus to utilize (though they likely still need heat lamps)

No wonder that they've annexed and vassalized the Fourth.

I desperately wish Tasmyn would teach us more about the Nine Houses. Plz girl plz!

[shouldhavebeenpersephone]

Not sure if I am the only one but I am obsessed with the idea of there being a hidden Lyctor among the BOE.

Is there ANY reason for me to think this is actually a thing? Absolutely not. But I love testing the limits. Under what conditions could there be a secret Lyctor? Is it even possible? What would they have gone through to get there? Would it be the same Lyctorhood that Jod offers? Is there ANY intuition involved in the Lyctoral process? Could a necromancer go unnoticed long enough to live to be a Lyctor?

[susurra-el-arroyo-manso]

Finally convinced a friend to read The Locked Tomb, and the play-by-play of her read-through has been everything I wamted. I love the wild speculation & that she's coming to completely different conclusions than I did (if only until more information is doled out).

Ps. The boning in question in the first screenshot is of course the bone construct making its first appearance.

[justsomeguycore]

a thing i’m very afraid of though it would be great foreshadowing payoff is. you know when harrow tells gideon “when i release you from my service, you will know”? i think that’s gonna come back. i think harrow’s going to beg gideon to just die and let go so she doesn’t fuck her soul up more or something. she’s gonna be like. ok fuck i’m making myself cry writing this. she’s gonna be like “it’s time gideon you have to go” and gideon’s gonna be like “not while you still need me!!” and they’re both gonna be crying and harrow’s gonna be like “gideon the ninth i release you from my service”

[beedreamscape]

In my very humble opinion, it's not natural that Harrow loves Alecto this much.

I mean I can't imagine how it must've been to witness the most beautiful woman you've ever seen in a place of decrepit old people and baby gideon, what a breath of fresh air, but like this infatuation has airs of enchantment or curse, whatever you prefer.

John was having a psychotic breakdown when he made her, using the beauty standards of his eight year old self (estimating). I've no doubt she was anatomically perfect, but did she ever resemble something alive? Again, assumptions of mine, especially considering how revolted Mercy/Augustine/maybe even other lyctors were regarding her.

So my "theory", more like a guess, is that there's something in the Tombkeeper juices that draws Harrow towards Alecto. Something to assure the scenario of a possible release, a possible outcome for John's doom. Or maybe even a guarding mechanism from John's part to ensure no harm would be attempted against her.

[thanergetic-hyperlinks]

What does Alecto want?

This is something I thought about while I wrote that post about Gideon's immortality.

When people speak about Alecto the book and Alecto the character, there is often an assumption that Alecto wants revenge for John turning her into a Barbie, and that our main characters want to kill God.

I'm not going to get too much into what I think the endgame might be for Jod (I'll leave it for another day) but I have some observations about Alecto!

First, people think Alecto wants revenge for the initial act of ripping her soul out and stuffing it in a Barbie body. I'm honestly not so sure that's her main concern!

Initially, Alecto's main fear is dying:

This is presumably what frightened her when in pain as Gaia, and what frightened her here, starting her life with John at the end of the world.

Of course, in the middle, there's her actual murder, and how she felt about it:

This fragment is so interesting. Most of this chapter the dialogue is in quotation marks, indicating it's not the memory of John and Alecto but current dialogue between John and Harrowhark.

John tells Harrow what happened. He is the one who asks her if she remembers what Alecto said. She (Harrowhark) said “What else did I say?”. And when Harrow says “I still love you”, Jod remembers that Alecto was also willing to love him despite what he'd done.

But Harrow is left without the answer to one question. “Where did you put the people? Where did they go?”

After this paragraph, she will say there are things she doesn't understand:

Apparently Alecto's memory isn't fully accessible, or she can't know Alecto's thought process, or there's bits of her memory gone for other reasons, whether it's John's intervention (unlikely, given how much incriminating stuff Alecto does remember) or because that's what was most traumatic to her and—unlike John's tale of apocalypse—nobody later reminded her. (Diegetically, of course, Tamsyn is simply saving that reveal for Harrow's arc in Hell.)

In any case: after being told the entire story about being killed and turned into a Barbie, Harrowhark still says “I want to understand why she was angry”. And that's seemingly tied to why John was terrified.

And the text directly relates that to the missing population of the Earth.

There are three things that very nearly make Nona fully recover the memory of who she was. One is when Pyrrha very nearly says her name, and Nona doesn't want to hear it. Later she doesn't seem to be lucid enough to react to Ianthe saying it, but she does react to this final line: Ianthe yelling “John loves Alecto!”. In the meantime, however, there's one more thing that shakes Nona deeply enough she has an actual heart attack:

And it's the sight of the Tower that makes Nona lose the will to live:

She also gets a couple passages where the sight of devils touches some deep, frightening memory. And we are given one last clue:

The River is dead.

We knew as early as HtN that the River is broken in some way. Its waters are described as brackish, salty, dirty, full of ghosts represented as rotting corpses. It doesn't seem to flow anywhere as rivers should. House religion says the dead wait as mad ghosts until John conducts his Second Resurrection. John of course has planted House theology with his idea to conduct “a flood” at some point and start over (“empty is just another word for clean”, etc.), once his revenge is done. He needs souls to not move on, in order to do that. We know through Abigail and Dulcinea that there is another shore, a Beyond that they've managed to exceptionally reach.

Alecto seems upset, above all, by what happened to the River, and that it remains unfixed.

Alecto states that she no longer fears death. She has experienced it (“I died once… no, twice”, and that's before her brief tenure as Nona).

She might be ready to leave John behind and move on, but.

What if she can't move on?

By which I mean: what if she—a Resurrection Beast, intimately acquainted with the spiritual dimension that is the River—what if she knows that she could never cross it as it is now, if she were to die? What if she knows that she would be absorbed by the stoma in the River's current condition, or float around insane forever? What if the sum of all necromantic transgression is that Jod committed ecocide on the afterlife and true death is no longer possible?

What if she needs the River to be healed in order to die?

To conclude, two other tidbits:

1. When Nona, trying not to engage with her Alecto consciousness, briefly considers just giving up and dying, she says:

2. Palamedes speaks of the Beyond (after briefly witnessing Dulcinea as she is there in TUG) right before he describes Paul as an end and a beginning. I don't think this is accidental?