#to clarify my use of the anti tag

[doctor-disc0]

um... not to be rude but isn't not having Loki in the next Thor movie what you wanted? I can't help but remember a bunch of anti-Ragnarok posts about how Taika Waititi turned the franchise into a big joke and calling CH "Chris Odinson" who insulted TM? Wasn't it keep Loki away from that at all costs? I don't understand why you changed your mind...

Hi sorry this got buried in my notes and I didn't see it

I haven't really changed my mind? Sorta? I still think that Taika Waititi did a terrible job with Ragnarok. One of the things I liked about the Thor franchise was its darker themes, at least compared to the rest of the mcu (and I also liked Loki. Obviously) and TW just kinda smashed that up and replaced it with awful characterization and like, butt jokes (idk it's been forever since I've seen Ragnarok).

But ever since the Loki series, I've kinda been like...actually, can we go back to Ragnarok? Cuz despite the shittiness of that mess of a movie, at least it didn't give us false hope at representation. At least its creator never pretended to like Loki. And at least it gave us a few good moments (I did love that Loki used their horns as a weapon, and I did like Thor's power upgrade).

Obviously, I still prefer Thor 1 and 2. But I've lost all hope that the mcu will ever be as good as it once was.

Also, as Tom Hiddleston once said (I think, idk): there is no Loki without Thor, and no Thor without Loki.

Actually, I think that's another reason the Loki show sucked. Thor did not show up at all, and was rarely talked about. We all know how much Thor means to Loki ("I may be envious, but never doubt that I love you") so the fact that their love for Thor wasn't really addressed (or even mentioned) really bothered me.

So, having a Thor movie without Loki is like having a Loki series without Thor, in that it's inevitably going to suck (even more than I predict it still would with Loki in it).

Also, maybe it's the optimist in me, but I really, really want to believe that Taika can make a good Thor movie if he really tried (as in, correct characterization and all that). I am glad that he sees Jane Foster's Thor as the Mighty Thor instead of just "Lady" Thor (though I do have my anxieties about how he'll go about portraying Jane). I think that if he gave Loki a chance, he could see our favorite god of mischief as more than just a pampered jerk (like they were portrayed in more recent mcu projects) and instead as a broken but loveable trickster who has gone through so much and received so little.

So, to summarize my feelings: yes, I think that Taika did a bad job with both Thor and Loki in Ragnarok, but I do think that Love and Thunder will be even worse than Ragnarok if Thor's love of Loki is not acknowledged and if he doesn't bring Loki to life in the form of kid Loki or if Loki doesn't at least make a cameo. Because let's face it, Thor's story and Loki's story are tied together so tight that you can't possibly make anything good about one without the other

I mean, Loki was way, waaaayyyy worse in the comics (literally called themself the god of evil for a while) and Thor still missed them and brought them back. Also the fact that Thor thought of Loki more as his brother than Balder is pretty hilarious considering Balder has never tried to kill Thor and is also actually related to him

So, yeah. I at least want a Loki cameo because Thor and Loki are important to each other, dammit

[swordbending]

Your post was about people villainizing a character of colour who doesn't deserve to be villainized. The show fucked it up anyway but hes not portrayed as an abuser in canon so where tf are they getting that from? Where did the trope even come from?

you're right anon, jet was literally gaslit and brainwashed in canon so it really doesn't make sense & like yeah, jet's a secondary antagonist for individual episodes but he's always portrayed as a sympathetic character and he's literally a kid... the way people hold jet's actions against him while also upholding zuko's redemption as the best in history is super hypocritical

[actualsoyboy]

before and after bakugo insults him unprovoked

[astroflowershop]

Nothing like remembering that you can just up and ignore or block whoever you're want without a reason or needing to explain yourself to anyone

[x-v4mp3y3lin3r-x]

I think we as white queer people should remove ourselves from debating what is aave and what is from ballroom, and instead focus on the gross misuse of queer terms by cishet people. because cishets have decided to call themselves "tops" and "bottoms" based on incorrect definitions now. and every fucking week those motherfuckers take trans terms and drag them through the mud until they all decide "actually that's a sjw term for snowflakes"

so maybe let's leave the debates about black culture vs black queer culture to BLACK people and instead as white queers let's start just killing the cishet men calling themselves "tops" just because they wanna hit their girlfriend 😐 [i would say they mean "dom" but I'm educated enough to know that they're not doms, they're assholes]

18+ blogs don't fucking reblog

[rouge-the-bat]

anyone can follow as long as ur not an asshole and/or force your views onto others/put hate in tags of something you dont like/invalidate others identities!

so radfems fuck off. and if you dont agree with bi lesbianism or you believe the lie that its a "radfem thing" please leave me the fuck alone bc im tired of being harassed and having lies spread about my identity.

if ur gonna send me an ask saying "ackshually ur views on Thing is wrong" especially on bi lesbianism instead of maybe, idk, having a convo with me if i feel up for it or something- then fuck off ! i dont fucking care !!! im literally so god damn exhausted all the time !!! leave me alone!

important edit: do not bring up any anti vs proshipping stuff up to me in asks or otherwise, csa tw for this post linked. do not bring me up in shipcourse in the slightest. respect fucking csa victims wishes for fucks sake

important too since people dont seem to be getting the memo. same tws as before

also heres something else yall fucks need to get in your head im so tired of this shit

[jaegerbroshoe]

I hate people who are like “this character was a child when they did this so you HAVE to like them”. Like no bitch, I don’t. I can understand their perspective and sympathize with them, but I do not have to love them even if they’re a so-called “good character” because they realized their mistakes later. You can develop/be well-written as a character, and still not be liked. 

[jellywolf]

So my birthday isn't until May but my mom's already gotten me something and it's a sewing machine. But she's also getting herself one that might be able to do embroidery and I really, really want to get like. A jacket or something to embroider and I'm an anarchist and it's a really common thing for punks/anarchists to do but like...instead of the normal ACAB and Anti-n*zi writings I. Want mine to be more positive???? So instead of ACAB have something for BLM. Instead of Anti-n*zi I want something uplifting jewish people. Quotes like "progress takes time" and "a small step now means bigger steps later". Cause my...way of...activism? Isn't angry. It's not violent. I'm not mad at the world. I'm sad that it's this way and I want it to change but idk??? I'm not a fighter I guess??? I'm...more gentle with my anarchy? No idea how to word it. But this is just how, personally, I am. I have a lot of ideals and stuff and I've been wanting to share so yeah❤️ this is just my little ramblings.

❤️Please feel free to ask me questions or ask me to tag things❤️

[vrishchikawrites]

Ok so like

This is by no means an insult, attack or anything of the aort to you personally, i enjoy your content and opinions and i fully mean this respectfully....

But i find it so interesting that some people can hate a particular character and not read fics about them?

Like, from my first interaction w fandom in general, i could read any relationship/ plot/ ooc as long as it is well written. Even if i hate canon characters, i can usually read them in a positive light. Hell, i can read any JC fix as long as i know if it's positive or negative so i know what to expect

And then i found tumblr discourse

Again, this isn't something I'm criticising, just an observation I'm curious abt, since detachment from the source material seems to be so scarce fandom wise

Ok, so - here's the thing. The problem isn't fans loving JC and writing him favorably. If that was an issue, many reasonable people in this fandom wouldn't be so miffed about it.

The problem is - we can't avoid them. You said it yourself, "as long as i know if it's positive or negative so i know what to expect"

We don't know what to expect.

Everyone wants to tailor their fandom experience. You mentioned you can read almost anything as long as it is well-written. That's a good thing because it opens up the entire fandom for you. But some people have specific tastes and triggers. They would want to look at the content they like and avoid what they don't like.

That isn't possible in this fandom.

I write canon characterization of JC. I am forced to tag is anti-jiang cheng. People write fanon characterization of JC. They don't tag it Jiang Cheng-friendly.

We get fics where JC is suicidal and people are gaslighting WWX - making him feel insecure - in the main Wangxian tag. And that is presented as ok for JC to do. They say it is suicidal JC, they don't mention that JC, Jiangs, and everyone is gaslighting the fuck out of WWX.

Then we have a perfectly good fic that we get invested in and find ourselves in a hole where WWX has crippling self-esteem issues, the Jiang family is abusive, but is brushed aside. There's no tag mentioning OOC WWX with self-esteem issues.

We have fics where Wangxian cheat on each other - with JC. And there's either one or more abusive partner involved. Partner abuse isn't tagged.

We have fics where all of WWX's morality is transferred onto JC. But JC isn't tagged as OOC.

THIS ISN'T TAGGED.

In fact, we have people using deceptive tags like angst with happy ending - Wangxian only for the happy ending to be for WWX to die at the hands of his abusive spouse. Again, no warning. The problem is so common and so many readers are blindsided by it that people have told me they clock out of the fandom because of it.

It isn't something as simple as an attachment to the source material. I am the last person to say fanon characterizations aren't allowed. I have been writing fanfiction for over two decades. Fanon characterization doesn't bother me at all.

There are fandom olds, good people, who will tag fics that are favorable to JC as JC-friendly and I don't think many of us have an issue with them. The problem starts when it becomes difficult to find a good fic where a canonical antagonist isn't allowed to walk all over the canonical protagonists. It is difficult to find a fic where everything that makes WWX so great in the canon is turned over until he only has surface characteristics of WWX but underneath that surface, he's someone we don't know.

Detaching yourself from the source material is one thing. But do you know many fics are out with WWX or LWJ having a bucketful of mischaracterizations? I have a near-crippling problem with depictions of severe self-esteem issues. I was drawn to WWX because, despite everything, he doesn't have severe self-esteem issues. So many fics include WWX with low self-esteem, severe self-deprecation without tagging? Because they consider it canon? I noticed that because I'm sensitive to it. But there are things I am not sensitive to, but other people want to avoid. Those things aren't tagged either.

It is frustrating for people who want to experience fandom, who want to be comfortable in fandom, but somehow have to deal with poor tagging, strange characterization, abuse justification, morality discussions, etc.

Fan content longer a favorable space for many fans. There are only so many fics you can clock out of before you start feeling completely disgusted by the situation.

So the response to all of that shit? Create a fandom vent space where people who do not like all of these things can come together, vent, and share their thoughts on. Venting in the story's comments section or in the author's space is bad form. A venting to people who have experienced similar things away from the creator's space? Fun and good form.

Also, added bonus, every time I see a meta, discussion, or answer an ask that forces me to think - my understanding of characters improves and I incorporate it into my fics.

to conclude - people can be detached from the original source material. But you bet people will rebel when someone tries to shove them in a particular direction. The more stans try to shove people in the direction of fanon characterization, the more people who like canon characterization will cling to it and defend it.

That's human nature.

All of this discourse? A response to being shoved and forced to bear fanon interpretations with complete disregard.

As people keep saying, the Chinese side of the fandom doesn't experience any of this shit.

Also, to clarify - I mean none spitefully or disrespectfully, despite my blunt language. This isn't a criticism of you or your ask, but of the state of this fandom.

[infinite-wanders]

Fascinating that people will hate on the 10/11 year age gap of Darren Barnett and Maitreyi Ramakrishnan, just because they don't like Paxton/Daxton, but will happily accept Dylan O'Brien and Sadie Sink in All Too Well.

...

Edit [to clarify asks I've received and indirect posts made at me towards this post]

This post is not about supporting the issue how Hollywood normalize casting romantic relationships with large age gaps.

While NHIE is "normalizing" older actors playing teenagers, they are not portraying on screen relationships with large age gaps. Shows like Pretty Little Liars normalized teacher/student aged relationships with Ezria (still gross) and All Too Well cast an age gap to represent someone's experience of a toxic relationship with a large age gap.

This post is more in reference to how people criticize Darren Barnet because he sometimes looks his age in some scenes. Did you know that you can have crows feet from a young age and look 30 at 19! Amazing how the pressure to look young is still being engrained into us. The guy was 28 when casted to play a 17 year old, and now it's such a big deal he's in his 30s. Y'all can calm down since NHIE is ending after 4 seasons. Again, get off Darren's back and blame Hollywood for making you uncomfortable.

I remember when I was in my late teens and 20s and thinking that association with anyone in their 30s seemed so old and disgusting. But guess what I'm 30 now, and my life experience has taught me that 30 isn't that bad, and also what I should and shouldn't accept at any age.

You don't have to like Daxton, but you also don't have to make the weak ass argument that it's an inferior ship because of the actors real life age difference. Learn to separate the characters from the actors.

I still find it fascinating any time a Daxton has an opinion, an anti Daxton isn't far behind with their 2 cents.

Just keep to your own ship and be on your way. Please keep your anti opinions out of my ship and character tags.

I said good day, sir!

[seirclys]

To the person telling us to blacklist the anti-tags and stop, quote-unquote, "intruding on them":

First of all, the unnamed poster also tagged the DITOEFTV/VADD tags in some of their posts. So it's not on us if we see it. If they didn't want to get a conversation in the open community, then they can just not tag it.

Second, when have we ever "cross-tagged shit", as you so politely put it? I distinctly remember that I was one of the people telling cross-taggers to stop and tag correctly? If you're referring to the multitude of tags underneath my posts, it's simply the different tags this fandom exists under. Stop saying shit that we didn't do.

Third, I'm sure I've been here long enough, seeing as I remember being on Tumblr for some time when it was sold to Yahoo in 2013. Don't think I don't know Tumblr etiquette; I've probably been here longer than many people.

Fourth, we don't "hate them/you" as you assume. I clearly remember asking the original poster(which I will not name) to clarify their opinion, and they used novel spoilers, so people can't come at me for "lording over my novel superiority", because they used the novel as a baseline for their argument.

We kept asking questions because they opened themselves to a conversation when they posted in the main tag. If you don't like it, then don't tag the main tags, then. Simple as that.

If they delete their post and block people in the argument in lieu of giving an actual rebuttal, then it's natural to assume some things. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I read the DITOEFTV novel at 4am and was extremely sleep-deprived. So I barely remember more than the manhwa readers who saw novel spoilers. Still, I'm able to do analyses and arguments because of my friends. Again, I don't claim "novel reader superiority".

Edit: LMAO I GOT BLOCKED BY JBE but I'm still going to get screenshots from moots sooo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit 2: The poster- yknow what fuck it, @jeweled-blue-eyes you literally use novel spoilers in your argument. You can't say shit about "it's different from the manhwa!!" and about being a manhwa only when you clearly use novel spoilers, like Iklies being a prince of Delman, etc etc. SUOL-nim is working closely with the original author, the manhwa won't change as much as you think it'll be, to the point where Iklies gets redeemed or something. His dark side is LITERALLY a major plot point. You said stuff about how someone said you need therapy before blocking you immediately. I distinctly remember(because they were messaging a group of people) that they said "Oh god, she blocked me, she deleted my comments."

[il-predestinato]

People legit have no reading comprehension skills:

What he actually said:

“So I think that's a bit the same for every driver, we will always try to race at the limits of what we're allowed to do.”

“But yeah, whatever the situation, the decision is, I'll just adapt my driving to it; so I'm fine with both.”

“A driver uses every opportunity to his advantage.”

“To know well if this hasn't been penalised at the last race, if I'm in a similar position, I know I can do something similar.”

“I think the car on the inside always has the preference and the ability to run the other car wide, but if the car on the inside also goes wide, that is what we need to clarify.”

He's not asking for Max to be punished. He’s not trying to threaten the FIA. (But thanks for shoving your anti-Max agenda in every tag on here.)

He’s asking if it’s okay to drive on the limit like a demon, because if it is, he’s totally down for it. If not, okay, got it. But you know... just let him know how much of a psycho he can be - so he and Max can be psychos together.

(*Austria 2019 intensifies*)

[bookofmirth]

I saw your recent response to an anon where you mentioned the drama that occurred the other day based around bookprofessor’s post. Obviously you don’t have to respond to this or publish it if you do not wish but I just wanted to bring up that while it is important to focus on the real life issues at hand, the OP was hypocritical in her post which is why people were getting upset. She was preaching against ableism while simultaneously flaunting her IQ and degree which is a form of ableism. She was speaking out against racism while ending her post using the racial slur “cracker” when talking about the possibly Caucasian Twitter elriels.

Obviously she had some important points but it was completely overshadowed by her participation in the hate speech and prejudice that she was speaking out against.

This does not in any way justify the nasty messages she received but on the same hand, I do not blame anyone that called her out for her hypocrisy. I hope you can understand why her post was so negatively received and how flawed it was. My hope is that one day everyone can just ignore the negativity, report those who are being racist/prejudiced in any way, and block those who are just being loud and who you don’t wish to see content from. But unfortunately I do not see that happening any time soon.

There are a few things I want to address in this because I think it's a good moment for the fandom to step back and reflect on how we treat one another, how we react to such issues, and how we behave moving forward.

First off, thanks for explaining your point of view without being antagonistic. I do think that everyone's emotional reactions to the post were valid. I do NOT think their responses, in terms of words and actions, were valid. Now before I move forward, I want to clarify that when I use the word "you", I am referring to anyone who may have had the response I am describing - not you personally, anon. Also please don’t freak out about how long this is, as a majority of it is a response to the fandom in general, not you in particular.

What was - and wasn’t - said in the original post

In this post, there were completely valid criticisms of the way that people in this fandom behave, and it wasn’t “generalizing” a certain group, it was literal, actual proof of things that had been said, by multiple people. I’m not going to get too into what Alyssa argued because her critiques of those tweets was flawless. The original post had very valid criticisms of what was happening on Twitter. Alyssa exposed the actually racist, homophobic, and imperialistic underpinnings of those tweets.

However, a lot of people are stuck on the bits before and after those critiques. @bookprofessor apologized for different aspects of her post in a few different asks. There were perhaps better ways that some of those things could have been phrased, some things that could have been left out. And she apologized. People can accept that apology or not but we can’t act like it didn’t happen. Like she didn’t reflect and learn to do better.

However, the people she was calling out have not done the same thing, and if anything, comments that focus more on Alyssa’s tone than why she wrote the post in the first place lets those people off the hook.

On cracker - Using the word "cracker" is not racist in the same way that using racial slurs against POC is. Is it prejudiced? Yes. But you cannot say that it is the same thing when that is demonstrably untrue, given centuries of oppressive history. No one has been oppressed for being white. Those are not the same. Reverse racism is not a thing because a white person punching down on POC is NOT AT ALL the same thing as a POC punching up at white people. The actions look the same, but the impact is so unequal it’s not even funny.

Racism is a systemic, institutionalized problem. It is not defined by individual actions, though those actions can either support or challenge racism. When someone calls a white person a cracker, there isn’t centuries of oppression giving power to and reinforcing that statement. That is not a “gotcha” moment.

Saying “I have x IQ” or “I have X degrees” is not ableist. I’m sorry to whoever told you it was ableist (again, not you specifically anon but people who had read the “aw shucks guys” vagueblogs about it), but it’s not. Those are facts. I have no idea what my IQ is, but I have five degrees from institutions of higher education. Me saying that is in no way ableist. 

Often, people mention those things to be elitist, yes. Sometimes, they can be used to say “hey I know more about this than you”. They can be used in a way that tries to make themselves feel superior. I suspect that this is the impression that a lot of people got of the post. However, there is a fine line between saying “hey that’s elitist” and professing anti intellectualism. Which is perhaps a side issue so I’ll let that go for now.

Another reason that people mention their degrees or qualifications is to establish their background knowledge and credibility. If I were to say “hey y’all I have two MA degrees” (which is true) I am not being ableist! It is a fact! It is factual! And I worked my ass off for those, I will be in student loan debt until I die for those, I have every right to mention them if I want to, and often I do so in order to establish my credibility, to explain the position I am coming from. And my prior knowledge of these topics is relevant when we are talking about literature since that’s what my degrees were on - literature and linguistics. That is why Alyssa mentioned her background, though she did pair it with comments about other people, for which she has apologized.

My final point about this is that I 1000% understand feeling insecure or less than because of educational attainment. I dropped out of high school. I had a complex about that for a long, long time. But I also know that if I took offense at someone else saying they had a PhD, then that offense is about me, not them. Someone else’s inferiority complex is not reason for people to pretend to be less than they are.

If those two comments are what overshadowed the bigger, more important issue for a lot of the readers of that post, then y’all allowed them to overshadow those more important issues. I am 99% sure that someone right now is reading this and thinking “but Leslie, it was the way that she said it!” Boy have I got some news for you!

How we react

This next section is not specific to this ask; instead, it is a discussion of how the fandom responded. If it were only one person who had said “but her tone” then I wouldn’t need to make this point. The fact that multiple people are exhibiting the behavior explained below is what makes this a cultural problem within the acotar fandom.

The main argument I saw on the post itself, and indeed any time I see people bring up how nasty Twitter can be, is that “it was a joke” and “that’s how stan Twitter works”.

No.

Those responses were quite useful for this post, though! So buckle up everyone, because I am going to talk about gaslighting, racism, respectability politics, and tone policing. While I understand that some people might have taken personal offense to what was said, there is a much bigger issue at stake that has nothing to do with individual feelings, and everything to do with ensuring that POC stay silenced and white supremacy is upheld. 

Back to the “but it’s a joke” thing. Thanks for gaslighting! Great example of that, person I’m not going to tag! Gaslighting is when you make someone question their experiences, when you try to make them think “wait, did I really feel that way? Is my feeling about that valid? Do I need to re-evaluate my response to this?? Am I blowing this out of proportion???” And saying “it’s just a joke” is a perfect way to do that. Did I say something accidentally sexist? It’s just a joke, nbd! Now you’re the problem, because you didn’t understand my joke and laugh!!! 

Saying “it’s a joke” or “oh they are old/young/ignorant, they will learn” is not a good response to... anything. It takes the responsibility off the people who are doing the harm, and putting it onto the people who were hurt. And in this case, anyone who read those tweets and found them harmful (which should be everyone?) is completely valid. You aren’t lesser for being angry or emotional or for seeing a problem where other people saw a joke. The people who see those things as acceptable jokes are the ones in the wrong.

This is a tactic that is used against women all the time. Any time a woman is sexually harassed at work or online, for example, and she gets upset about it, and someone chimes in with “oh they weren’t serious, can’t you take a joke?” So you can imagine what this is like for women of color.

It is a very, very common tactic for people of color to be silenced via tone policing and respectability politics. Tone policing and respectability politics are very closely related, especially in this context. The idea is that if Alyssa had just written that post in just the right way, it would have been more palatable to white people, and therefore okay to write. The idea that if she had tried to be “understanding” or “see it from their perspective” or understand that it’s “just a joke” are all ways to silence and de-legitimize any accurate, valid criticisms that were made of those tweets. It effectively re-routes the conversation away from the real issues, and to the person trying to bring them up. It’s essentially an ad hominem attack in disguise. 

We see respectability politics in media when people of color who act or dress or speak like white people are afforded more respect. Or any time that a person of color is pulled over and people say, “well if they had just done what the police officer asked...” There is a pervasive idea that if people just “act” properly, aka if you act white, then the police won’t feel antagonized and try to kill arrest you. If we are nice enough, meek enough, smile enough, etc. then we will be accepted.

When we tone police, we refuse to allow marginalized people the right to be angry. We say that "hey, we can only have this discussion if you leave emotion, which you rightfully feel, at the door, and we can only continue this discussion if you behave in a way that makes me feel comfortable." But guess what? It isn’t about you! These discussions are often highly uncomfortable. There is no nice way to tell someone they are being racist. And yet somehow, that is the ever-moving goalpost. It seems reasonable, right? “Just be civil, be nice, don’t insult each other!” And there is that. But those criteria change constantly, to the point where anyone (white) at any time can say “WHOA WHOA THIS IS MAKE ME UNCOMFORTABLE???” Then we find ourselves at zero, and suddenly the focus of attention has shifted away from the actual problem.

Before we go further, I want to say this: people have a right to be angry. They do not need to make their anger palatable or tasteful for the consumption of others (read: white people). 

We saw this last summer, and I’m not sure how the message didn’t get across. But people are rightfully angry about racism. They are angry about the murder of people of color by police, they are angry about lack of quality education, or clean water, of centuries of oppression that have led to this very moment when all of that ceases to matter because a white woman’s feelings got hurt one time. 

And that is what pisses me off so much. There is no way in this world that we could criticize tweets like those that everyone would agree with, and that everyone would “approve” of, that would be “nice” enough and yet still be impactful and make the authors of those tweets understand the gravity of what they have done. 

The least we can do is allow one another to express our anger, our outrage, because it’s highly likely that those people know exactly what the fuck they are doing, and they do not fucking care. By criticizing a woman of color for the way in which she chose to engage with this topic, we are avoiding the issue and letting the people in those tweets off the hook. 

There were many responses to that post that were positive, that agreed with Alyssa. There are a ton of people who disagree with those tweets, who find them disgusting, who understand exactly how and why they are problematic. That should be what we are talking about. Getting to the core of the argument, on that post or any about racism or other problematic behavior in fandom, requires getting past our own egos. It requires us to be able to step back, say “hm this thing is frustrating but there is a bigger picture here”. It’s not easy, and I recognize that. 

The fact that it is a common tactic though? To say “hey this hurt me personally and so I’m going to ignore any valid points you made?” That feeds directly into centuries of white supremacy because it, once again, silences POC and makes them try to play a losing game. And they will always lose, because no matter how hard they try to play the white game, the goalposts are constantly shifting. So you know what? Fuck the game, and fuck respectability politics, and fuck tone policing and “uwu be nice guys” because when it comes to things like racism and sexism, I don’t expect the people who deserve to be criticized to be nice. In fact, trying to be nice only serves to fuck POC over in the end.

Indeed, in response to that post, certain blogs have taken the opportunity to position themselves as “the nice ones” or “the ones who would never” or “uwu let’s be nice guys” while completely ignoring the fact that a woman of color was attacked for calling out racism. And yes - that was the point of her post. People getting hung up on mentions of her degree are (intentionally or not, it doesn’t matter) completely obfuscating the fact that that is not what her post was about, which was to call out disgusting behavior. idk how many words the post actually was, but essentially, people are focusing on 5% of it to the detriment of the 95% that was actually really important shit. These types of vagueblog posts about the issue fall into exactly what I am talking about - these are people who have decided to look at this issue, see how Alyssa (and anyone else who dares speak up) has approached it, and intentionally try to act like they are “better” because they can be “rational” and “kind”. Newsflash, if you don’t have something to be angry about, then being “nice” about racism isn’t that much of a flex. If it didn’t bother you, then congratulations. That doesn’t make you better than people it did bother. You just got lucky this time, and decided to use that to your advantage to look like the good guy.

I am not saying that all calls for peace are doing this. Obviously it’s what we all want. This is the worst I have seen this fandom in the 4+ years I’ve been here. But we cannot have that by ignoring the real problems and pretending that if we are all just nice to each other, then we will solve racism and sexism and all bullying in the fandom will stop. 

So combining all of this - the gaslighting, the tone policing, and what do you get? You get a fandom that refuses to actually engage critically with its own problems and take accountability for them. You get a fandom that decides that it’s easier to be distracted by this one mean comment over here than it is to engage in the fact that you know what, the culture in this fandom has actually turned incredibly disgusting and a lot of people are just okay with it. You’ve got a fandom that is using the tools of white supremacy to avoid the discussions that should actually be taking place. Maybe people don’t realize that that’s what they are doing. But if someone still thinks that after reading this post, then godspeed my friend, I hope you enjoy Twitter.

Okay so my last thing I want to say is that I didn’t come to all of this knowledge fresh from the womb. I do a lot of work, in my personal life and my professional life, to be better. So here is a list of books that I have found particularly helpful:

How to Be An Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi

Stamped From the Beginning: The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America also by Ibram X. Kendi

White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism by Robin DiAngelo (side note, I was kinda meh about this one but the chapter “White Women’s Tears” is particularly helpful)

So You Want to Talk About Race by Ijeoma Oluo

Black Feminist Thought: Knowledge, Consciousness, and the Politics of Empowerment by Patricia Hill Collins

I’m not going to talk specifically about Alyssa’s post anymore, but if anyone wants to continue talking about these broader issues going on in the fandom, I am game. (I really should be grading papers though, so it might take a bit.)

[ineffably-human]

please elaborate on ur “anti serial killer guillermo tag”, if you don’t mind! i feel like we as a fandom don’t really discuss this enough yknow?? curious to hear ur thoughts

I've written stuff on this before lol but I'm kind of drained at the moment so am too lazy to look it up, if you want to dig through my 'char: guillermo the relentless' tag it's in there somewhere. I also edited that 'anti-serial killer' tag to clarify a little more because I don't want to be like...shitty about other people's headcanons. I just personally feel like canon refutes the idea that Guillermo is emotionally closed off and SO creepy and weird he'll happily bring people to be eaten and would maybe even be killing people without association with the vampires. he is a killer but the specific phrase 'serial killer' is like calculating and methodical, and based on a pattern. technically Guillermo is a direct accessory to mass murderers and I know that's semantics but if you think he wouldn't lean HARD on those semantics... plus he absolutely does care- about Jeremy, about the Mosquito Collectors, about vampire!Derek, in 2 of the 3 situations he'd even be better off if something bad happened to them but he makes it a point to save them at personal risk. he's leapt in to save both vampire and human lives many, many times throughout the series. I think once he puts a name and an identity to a person, he doesn't want that person to get hurt and feels bad if bad stuff happens to them. if he can treat it like sourcing takeout - well, he loves his master and his vampire family, they need to eat. humans eat burgers and cows are freaking adorable. he'd better get used to it if he wants to be a vampire anyway.

but if he knows someone is a huge asshole? or belongs to a group of huge assholes? absolutely that'll impact his decision on who he brings home, if he can have that power over someone who deserves it. less Catholic guilt for him, net win for the universe, what do you mean it's not technically a good deed? he knew that guy when he was 16 and he made sure the motherfucker had NOT improved with age.

he's not a saint, he's highly fucked up, but he's ruled by his heart in both the best and worst ways and he knows it. that's my personal headcanon, anyway.

[holdmyhopeinyourhands]

To clarify to my cult mv0 anons. I censor his name so your fellow fans who actually have the awareness not to visit an anti mv0 blog don't have to see my posts shitting on him in their tags. I don't use a different censoring because one of your fellow fans once said to me, censoring his name as m*x made it sound like it was a slur (which is funny considering) but I wanted to be nice about it regardless so I changed it to mv0 as suggested by my mutuals. I add the zero because I don't think his title is legitimate and that's my opinion. You're free to believe otherwise and 33 is used to his actual fans so that wasn't an option. Lastly addressing the question of "why don't you just use his actual name"...... y'all want me to write a post saying how much of an asshole he is....using his name, seriously?

So yeah that's why people censor his name. Get over it and get used to it. Unless you want mv0 slander all over his tags.

Or maybe you just don't want people to say anything negative about him period and to that I say when your fav goes a full season without shitting on Lewis, come talk to me.

[screamingsatyrs]

Hello fans of Lore Olympus. I come to you to address the problematic assumptions most of you make in regards to antis. I don't speak for all, but mainly for the Discord server I'm in.

1. WE ARE ALL NOT THE SAME

Not every anti is part of the same community, so to treat one bad seed as the whole fruit patch ... is a little much and unfair to everyone.

2. MOST ANONYMOUS TAKES ARE JUST THAT

Similar to how fans post their thoughts on episodes, chapters, and the like, we do the same. While on this topic, I'd like to clarify, if you see criticism posted on what is considered the "main" tag, it doesn't necessarily mean it's in bad faith. It's important to ask for specifics regarding tone, if it's difficult to comprehend over text rather than jumping on the post. And majority of the time, the critical community do use the proper tagging to differentiate from the main one. Tumblr's system is poor, and it is not the fault of critical posters.

3. NO, WE WILL NOT CREATE A WHOLE NEW TAG

If you do not like what is posted, then please block. None of you are owed comfort for a comic that isn't exempt from criticism. If uncomfortable topics are being talked about, I'm fairly certain critical posters will post warnings before diving into said topic. So once again, please block. It isn't difficult to do.

4. WE HAVE LIVES

Shocking, right? It's totally unbelievable that we don't spend 24 hours with our eyes glued to the screen, eh? Yes, I'm irritated about my acquaintances' and myself for being considered as having "no lives" just for creating content that may not be the apple of everyone's eye. You don't know what we do, and it's very arrogant of you to assume so. And yes, for most of the members in the server I'm in, critically analyzing a comic is fun for us and therefore a positive experience. I'm happy and my life isn't cruddy just because I don't fawn over it. I still go out with my pets and visit a friend's place. Assuming that critiquing a comic is the only thing we do is once again, arrogant. So I unkindly tell you to zip it because our business is not yours.

(I feel like I'm kind of speaking for myself in this one)

THIS LIST WILL BE ADDED TO, THANK YOU FOR READING