#ttte discussion

[meanscarletdeceiver]

Is it just me or does some of Wilbert’s stories feel a little … mean spirited, lol?

Go on... 🤭

[sirenofshadow]

Random thought as I was rereading @/mean-scarlet-deceiver‘s Coppernob series.

Where do you reckon the NWR cast picked up their names? Thomas, Edward, Henry and Gordon all strike me as if they wouldn’t of had them as built, James probably could have. Derby was a big works and he to my knowledge wasn’t ever on regular service? They’d need a way to refer to him that wasn’t simply “The pony truck one.” Percy we know, Toby I imagine was named by his crew.

Duck and the twins are self explanatory but Oliver’s an interesting thought.

[anonymousboxcar]

I’ve recently learned about the GWR 3200 class of steam engines, otherwise known as the “Earl” or the “Dukedog” class. For those unfamiliar, the Dukedogs came about in 1936-1939, when the GWR took the cab and boilers of the Duke (GWR 3252) engines and placed them on the frames of the Bulldog (GWR 3300) engines.

I’m wondering what these Dukedogs would be like in the TTTE / RWS universe. When they steam up a Dukedog for the first time, do they wake up as:

an engine with a 100% new personality,

an engine with the personality of the former Duke engine,

an engine with a personality that’s a combination of the former Duke and Bulldog engines, or

the Bulldog, the Duke, and/or a new Dukedog personality all inhabiting the same locomotive body together?

I haven’t made up my mind yet on which I prefer. I’d love to hear your guys’ thoughts, especially those of you more versed in the mechanics of engine sentience and personhood in this universe.

Also, what does Duck think of the Dukedogs? How might it gel with or challenge his beliefs concerning “the Great Western Way?”

[putuponpercy]

June means many of the workers are now beginning to swap to the more lightweight "summer uniform" with shorter sleeves or putting away their coats until September

[ryan1014n2]

"Oh, and are you okay? I probably should've led with that."

[shelli-gator]

Does anyone else ever think about what would have happened if Edward hadn't woken up/stopped in time in A Shed for Edward? It was dramatic even WITHOUT a head-on collision. The way the choir goes from cherubic to downright ominous, ramping up as he gets closer, people cowering at the station because they can see the impact coming. There's a mother there shielding her child, and I think, personally, if Edward had seen that it would have gutted him (what's to say he didn't?). And it's so poignant that it's Percy he almost hits. When Percy yelps in fear after their buffers have connected Edward recoils from him, horrified by what he almost did. Ashamed that he'd scared him at all.

[Personally, I think it's absurd that Edward wouldn't have just wanted to go home to Tidmouth after that. Period. It doesn't matter if Philip stopped keeping him awake. He doesn't have any trouble sleeping at Tidmouth, you know the place where he's spent most of his life? Where he carved himself a place among his peers? Anyway.]

But let's say he hadn't. Let's say he'd collided with Percy; sure, he wasn't going super fast, but I think from the way the scene played out it's implied it would have hurt, at the very least. How catastrophic would it be? Who would fair worse? I love drama and angst, I want Percy to fair worse. James at the works getting repaired and he wakes to his friends around him and it's like his nightmares came to be in the night (he even dreams about almost hitting Philip at Knapford, how relevant is that?). And Edward is beside himself. He's never really hurt anyone through his mistakes, at least not like this. I wanted to write something about this. Maybe I will, but I'm super busy with commissions and everything else so it won't be a while yet. So I'm happy talking about it.

[Side note: I think if anyone is good at empathizing with the pain and regret that comes with hurting someone through his mistakes, it's James.]

[djs-sideblog-for-pog-trains]

Last thought before i try sleep. Do you think Duck lets anyone call him Monty or is he on a strictly Duck basis w/ everyone

[hkpika07]

What starters do you think Henry, Gordon and Edward would have? (Or well, partner pokemon if not a starter.)

OH YAY MORE POKEMON TEAM QUESTIONS!! The railway trio don't have starters but they do have partner pokemon. I will go into detail why because I'm autistic. Long explanations under the cut.

Gordon’s partner pokemon is a shiny bisharp. (With the ability defiant). I will die on this hill.

It's described in several pokedex entries that they fashion themselves as leaders and hate to lose. That they'll do anything to win.

Their expression does not change much. Does "when he smiles his whole face changes" ring a bell?

And if they lose they'll be driven from their group and exiled. And if its blade is ever chipped it will retire from its position as leader. Fear of losing and be abandoned because of it?? And basing self worth on ability to perform??

Wow sounds a lot ike a certain big blue engine I know.

Edward's partner pokemon is a stoutland!

Stoutland are described as being very wise, kind and valiant pokemon.

They also warm up to people incredibly quickly. And Edward warms up to new engines on the island quickly as well. Often times helping train them. (Example being thomas.)

Stoutland also are described at great at rescuing people! And what do we see Edward do in the background of many many episodes? Bring the breakdown the train and help bring/rescue others to the steamworks.

(Also not pictured here but Edward also has a houndoom on his team he got back when he was young and a little shit)

And Henry has a leavanny!

First off it's a grass type. And also leavanny are incredibly kind and gentle pokemon. They're caretakers and they weave clothes from leaves and silk.

Henry to me is very kind and gentle and is the heart of the steam team

But like leavanny, don't cross him or else you may be getting more than a stern lecture

No mercy.

[master-of-the-railway]

Relating to your post on the subtle angst of being a machine, I hunger for all the possible physical angst elements. Where is the fear of limited or increasingly costly repair parts? Where is the worry of the shrinking pool of mechanical experts (engine troubleshooters)? The simple inescapable awareness that one's moving parts are constantly degrading? Horror relating to corrosive/damaging environments? Complex emotional trauma and strange coping mechanisms in response to the reality of their entire "family" slowly *literally* falling apart?

YES!!! YESS!!! FUCK YES!!! SOMEONE THAT GETS IT!!!!!

going to. put this under the cut bc I have SO MUCH TO SAY.

You get it SO well, so many good points there. All things come to an end, and engines especially can be kept alive for over a hundred years if they are well taken care of, but there's so many who are not as valued or who simply cannot be taken care of as well as their owners want to take care of them. And they can rarely do things about it. It's honestly admirable that some of the Sodor engines have worked so hard to protect and preserve their fellow rolling stock. Oliver is a beloved little engine, but he likely stays up some nights thinking about how if Douglas hadn't happened upon him, he wouldn't even be here right now. He'd have been melted down ages ago. Not to bring up Hiro again but he is literally the first engine that comes to mind when I think of this sort of thing. He went to Sodor so excited to be helpful and useful and was promptly abandoned not long after he'd broke down. He was stuck there for god knows how long and if Thomas hadn't found him, by accident mind you, he would've corroded and died there most likely. And yet he would've rather done that then get scrapped. Almost as if he wanted to pass away on his own terms. Like I mentioned before, we're shown often that most of the kind-hearted engines (specifically on Sodor) will put forth their best effort to keep any machine out of the smelters. Thomas listened to Hiro's story and was likely deeply disturbed that Hiro had been abandoned like that and not a single person dared to look hard enough to find him when he was still on Sodor this whole time. But with his horror, came understanding, because he knows the reality of even some of the most famous locomotives at times can be harsh and even deadly. And Spencer showed no care or concern at all, not only that, but he almost seemed delighted to inform Sir Tophamn Hatt of Hiro's existence purely to ensure that he was scrapped. He knew nothing about Hiro. He doesn't even LIVE on Sodor. And yet he took great pride in the concept of getting the old engine scrapped. As if that does not mean the very end of an engine's life. It's honestly really unsettling to me how quickly Spencer jumped to that conclusion. Not to mention the tearful horror in Hiro's voice when he was yelling out to Thomas whilst trying to get away from Spencer.

Henry was locked in a tunnel for fearing the rain would damage his coat. How often did he beg those workers that would come by to let him out? How many times do you think he cried feeling like he'd failed his entire railway and that he'd never be released again? There was no sympathy shown for him. And no acknowledgement to the terror he very likely felt for the time he was trapped there in that tunnel. He got sick not long afterwards, the anguish he went through in that time period was probably something awful. Most all machines are at the mercy of their employers. They don't have the appendages to escape the situations they get in that some humans might be able to get out of. If you deprive any machine of their fuel they cannot go anywhere. If you refuse to repair them they cannot go anywhere or function properly. There's a reason they pride themselves on being really useful. If you're not really useful, you're either sent away or you're...well...sent somewhere to be scrapped. It's the way the world works with real, non-sentient machines...and it seems like the TTTE universe operates on those same principals despite being a world where 99% of all heavy machinery is alive and can think and speak for themselves. Sometimes it's just progression, sometimes it's business, but at no time is it ethical. They are alive. They have wants and desires and emotions and fears, yet very few of the humans in their world seem capable of understanding that. There's so many scary things that come with being an engine. If you're too slow and you get less done than a new model, you're likely done for unless somebody cares enough about you to take you in and restore you. Sodor seems to work overtime to preserve old rolling stock, I'm sure they would've taken incredible care of Hiro had he not went home to Japan, and it seems like they did miss him there considering that he's still very well taken care of when he comes to visit Sodor after he'd moved back home. But there's so many engines who don't have that luxury. Hiro just as well could've been sent back or left sitting still, of course whoever owns him now clearly cares for him a great deal. The other types of machines aren't as touched on as our beloved engines are, but they surely experience the same kind of stuff. Airplanes may just as easily feel the same anxieties as old steamers do. They get antsy when they can't fly because what is a plane good for if it can't get off the ground? There's just SO many things to talk about. I really do think the fandom should include things like this in angst content more bc there is a lot of the show's own canon that is genuinely unsettling when put into real world perspectives.

[electricfied-wolf]

Hiro photos because I absolutely ADORE this man and I think he really needs more focus and appreciation.

[meanscarletdeceiver]

tttetwt backup: new build edition

(x)

(kyrie's subthread)

[sirenofshadow]

The Strange Case of Replicas

Replica Engines are something the series has never directly touched on before to my knowledge. The only one ever encountered is Iron Duke, who I seem to recall the book treating as if he was the original? To me this raises an interesting question on what life is like for replicas.

Does Strasburg’s Thomas harbour resentment to the “real” Thomas due to the fact it’s lived it’s entire preserved life in his shadow? Or did the process of rebuilding somehow cause him to believe himself to BE Thomas?

How about Dummy Units? Surely they’d be aware they aren’t engines, but they’re built to act as Thomas and have no other identity from the moment they leave their factory. How do they see themselves?

What of Dave and Douglas? Dave’s been running as Thomas for as long as DoWT has existed, do you think he enjoys the attention? Does he wish to go back to being himself? Douglas hasn’t been able to play the role of No.10 for years now, but he’s not been rebuilt into his tank engine forme, and he’s still known as Douglas to all. How much of an Engine’s sense of self can be changed and influenced by the people they work with, or a rebuild?

Then there’s the engines once homed at Australia’s The Train Shed themepark. I personally subscribe to the idea that any engine big enough to carry people is alive, so what do they think? They’re fully operational engines build to be miniture replicas of Thomas, Gordon, James, Percy, Toby and Mavis. Do they have the personalities of the real engines, are they different?

I don’t even want to touch on Nene Valley Thomas, this guy was directly named by Awdry he’s probably got all sorts of identity issues.

Thomas Jr. isn’t real and I refuse to think about him.

[thunderxleafart]

Lately I've been working on my own humanized take on TTTE, and that's been a lot of fun, but it's also brought up some interesting questions. For my universe, all the OG characters are the human drivers/workers instead of the engines. But they still have the OG engines. So I thought it'd be fun to write up some stuff on the actual engines in this universe, and a thought kinda struck me; Would these engines have names? They'd have the same numbers, of course, but would it be weird for the engines all to be named after their drivers? I.E: Human Thomas drives the #1 engine, which is also named "Thomas". Would it make more sense for all the engines to only be identified by their numbers? Or, if the engines were to have names, would they have the same ones or different ones? For instance, I do like the #1 loco being named Thomas (ofc named after the human Thomas; you can thank Edward for that lol), and maybe even #2 being Edward, but idk about the rest. I also think #9 and #10 being nicknamed "The Scottish Twins" would be fun, and a good in-joke given that both their drivers are Scottish AND twin brothers. xD But I'm not sure if the engines themselves would have proper names or not. I'm probably way thinking way to deeply about this but there's a lot of fun potential there I'd like to explore >:D I'd love to hear y'alls thoughts though! ^^

[littlewestern]

On Hank

(This one goes out to the anon in my askbox who requested Hank for the bingo meme. I'll do you one better <3)

So to preface this I think some context is required. I’ll be brief.

When I started this train misadventure with @greatwesternway, I personally had no plans to watch beyond Season 6, which was the last season that I remembered watching as a child and so the last season I had any personal attachment to. Once that had been done, however, and I still wanted more trains, I skipped directly to season 17 (to see Duck) and then proceeded to watch the rest of the CGI (backtracking to season 13) and then all the movies and specials.

This watch order left a gap, Seasons 7-12. I was not looking forward to watching Seasons 7-12. I had no special memories associated with them, and knew from prior research that the characterization and writing was… shall we say, less than stellar. I also knew that these seasons added many one-off characters that the CGI would not end up carrying over, and which I had basically zero interest in. Who cares about Flora the steam tram? Not me, certainly.

Imagine my surprise, then, when Season 12 (of Steady Eddie infamy) delivered perhaps my favorite one-off character of the entire show, and a pretty good all-around episode in general.

Let’s talk about Hank and his episode, Heave Ho, Thomas.

Despite appearing in only one episode, we know a lot about Hank’s character. We know that he’s big, strong, gregarious, friendly, quick to compliment others, and– perhaps most importantly– American!

Yes, the engine whose color scheme is red, white, and blue and who has a Texan accent (which Michael Angelis is attempting so, so bravely) is American. Shocker!

I’m pointing this out primarily because it’s interesting on its own: the show never directly states that he is from America, but it’s made very clear to the audience that that is the case.

There are many American engines on Sodor (Rosie, Caitlin, Connor, Porter, Timothy, Victor) but Hank is the only one (aside from Victor, who I would consider a special case) who is shown to be Culturally American. Most of these other engines are given British (or in the case of Caitlin and Connor, Irish for some reason) accents and their status as transplants isn’t really commented on in the canon.

I’m not bringing this up in relation to Hank because I have a problem with this from a technical perspective, but because Hank being American is– I would argue– actually the crux of the whole episode and what makes it work.

(Hank actually gets a model face as opposed to a CGI one for this shot! This episode might have been planned for before the decision to switch to CGI faces had been finalized.)

The episode proper starts with Hank arriving on Sodor. Thomas and Percy are both excited to meet this new special and strong engine, but Thomas expresses some doubt that he could be stronger than any of the engines on Sodor. Already we’re seeing some hometown pride from Thomas, indicating both that Hank is an outsider and that wherever he’s from, Thomas thinks Sodor is better. Sir Topham Hatt gives Thomas his 3 strikes jobs for the day, which he instructs Thomas to do while showing Hank around the island.

Hank arrives and immediately sets Thomas off by calling him “one of the finest little engines [he’s] ever seen”. Thomas, being as he is, takes offense at being called “little”, disregarding of course that to Hank, the big fuckoff PRR K4 Pacific, every engine on Sodor is little. And of course, Hank doesn’t mean “little” as an insult either. He means… cute! But Thomas, being as he is, gets buttmad about it.

Hank sees the load of freight cars Thomas is set to haul to the factory and offers, quite magnanimously, to take them instead, setting Thomas off even more. And perhaps Hank is underestimating Thomas here, but on the other hand, to Hank it would be like offering to carry a child’s backpack. The narration even tells us that Hank is merely trying to be helpful. He’s got that Southern Hospitality thing goin’ on!

As these seasons adhere to a specific formula it doesn’t take a genius to see where this episode is going. Thomas doesn’t exchange his current train for the next as he was instructed and instead tries to do all of them together as Hank watches, offering each time to pull the train instead and getting turned down. Part of that aforementioned Southern Hospitality, though, is taking people at their word, and so Thomas struggles on in a valiant attempt to win the Cutting Off Your Nose To Spite Your Face Award.

(Thomas, all out of Puff and Pull.)

It’s here that he gets called "Handsome Hank" in the episode by the narrator in passing. This is fun, because I love when one of the stereotypes Americans are given outside this country is that they're attractive. I suspect this comes from our only cultural export being film for 100 years, and so the impression that people who don't live here got was that Americans all look like movie stars.

Hank being called this is interesting though, in that sense, it characterizes him as American again without outright stating the fact, but it's also interesting because 'handsome' is not an adjective that gets ascribed to engines in canon. For this reason, I suspect it is a title in the vein of "Duck The Great Western Engine" or "James the Red Engine". It's a name given by humans to the engines as a form of address.

Because if it isn't... Well, how-dy Hank! Thomas (or the Narrator at least) thinks you look handsome! Add that to the list of things Thomas just can't stand about this guy! He swanks in here, disrespects Thomas, belittles him, and has the gall to look good while doing it. What a Hospitable asshole!

(Handsome Hank! I absolutely love these pieces of concept art and I'm so glad we have them.)

Hank is so Hospitable in fact, that when Thomas is completely out of steam and can’t whistle at the stations because of the heavy train, Hank announces in front of God and everybody that because Thomas is out of puff: he, Hank, will whistle for him! To Hank, this is just common courtesy. If he can’t pull the train, the very least he can do is whistle for his new friend.

Of course, this is about the worst thing you could say in front of an engine like Thomas. Thomas, who thinks everything is a competition, every offhand comment a slight against him personally, and every action he can’t do a knock against his own Usefulness. It’s not his fault, really. When you come up on a British railway with engines like Gordon and James, you expect to be belittled and patronized. But Hank isn’t being passive-aggressive here, he’s just being American!

Well of course, as it goes with these seasons, Thomas cracks a cylinder and learns a lesson about asking for help or somesuch, Hank has a party thrown for him and is promptly forgotten about for the rest of time forever, The End. It’s not a very satisfying conclusion or a particularly good episode when taken at face value, but I think it works if you look at it as a Cultural Differences sort of episode, where the sensibilities of two different railways come into contact and are, at least initially, at odds with each other.

And actually, doing some research for this episode, I found out that Heave Ho, Thomas was never shown in Japan on tv or released for home media. Maybe they thought an episode like this wouldn’t translate well for a Japanese audience? Interesting, either way!

[ryan1014n2]

Hey, everyone. New favorite podcast

[sudriantraveler]

The Development of the NWR

So first of all, Happy New Year everyone! I actually want to start this year by poking everyone’s brains for a bit of a RWS discussion.

What is the Transition Period of the NWR? As in, what time period or series of events do you consider to be the most significant/impactful in the the NWR’s development from chaotic dysfunctional clusterfuck holding on by a bootlace and a prayer and shambling around in the rough approximation of a railway, to still very quirky and chaotic but it is actually a functional railway?

My answer, or at least my current answer is below:

Honestly, the NWR’s development might be a bit too gradual to point to a specific time period as being the most significant, but if I had to pick I would say the late 30s and early 40s.

I remember seeing a post by @mean-scarlet-deceiver, I believe it was this one, which briefly mentions how in the mid to late 20’s there was some notable factionalism between the engines of the NWR’s fleet: you had the “big engine trio” of Gordon, Henry and James, the “old guard” of Edward and Thomas plus new recruit Percy, and the “bully club” of 98462 and 87546, as well as several other engines, including the remaining pre-NWR holdovers, who would all probably have been somewhat divided into various groups and factions.

It would have probably been during the Second World War that these dividing lines would have either blurred or in some cases disappeared completely, with the much more fully encompassing identity of being North Western Engines taking their place. War is above all horrible and destructive, but as a side effect it can also be a hell of a force for unifying and strengthening national and cultural identities.

During the war, there would have been a lot more work with much less down-time and even less regular maintenance. Engines would have been coming and going much like when the NWR was being constructed back during the First World War. Not to mention there would probably have been several War Department engines arriving on the Island who, while they would have been a significant help to the NWR’s overworked locomotive fleet, their constant attitude of “for King and Country” and “doing your part for the Crown” might have come into conflict with Sodor’s independent streak. Sudrians fought hard and made plenty of sacrifices during the war, but they don't take kindly to outsiders telling them what to do. All of this instability would have led the NWR’s engines to circle around each other, and from this would have emerged the idea that “Yes, while we all come from different places and backgrounds, we’re all Sudrians now! The NWR is our railway and home, and we’re all one big found family!” The engines would develop a much stronger sense of unity during this time, and this would serve them well in the post war years, especially during nationalization.

This was probably also a very important time period for the individual development of many of the engines. As a few examples: Henry around this time probably really embraced his new-found strength and confidence following his rebuild, with he and Gordon pulling some of the heaviest and most important trains on the railway; Edward probably pushed himself far beyond his mechanical limits, trying to avoid being left in the shed again, which is probably what led to the worn out state he’s in by the time the events of his book roll around; and I image Thomas would have further developed his deep rooted sense of responsibility and loyalty to his branchline and the people who live along it around this time (as an aside I wonder if this is when Thomas first became friends with Mrs. Kindley).

As for 98462 and 87546, if you believe them to still be on Sodor at this point, there’s a lot of different directions you could go with them. Maybe their bad behavior finally catches up to them and they’re relegated to lesser duties on more out of the way parts of the Island. Maybe the hardships of the time period prove to be the slap in the face they needed to begin to reform. Maybe they split off from each other, one reforming and trying to become a better engine while the other doubles down on their bad behavior. Or maybe they both leave Sodor entirely. In any case, probably the biggest source of toxicity within the NWR’s fleet is either greatly reduced in strength or removed from the equation entirely. Which would again be a big step in the railway’s development into a far more functional and healthy social environment.

To keep this from getting too much longer that’s where I’m going to end. Again, I want to try to spark some discussion with this post, so please reply or reblog with your thoughts and opinions on what time periods and events were the most significant in how the NWR developed overtime. I’m very excited to read them!