#wei wuxian stan

[randomness-is-my-order]

since i’m on my third mdzs brainrot of the year, let me just say: it’s enlightening how this story, spread over multiple volumes, goes over the simple but undeniably true reality that even while doing almost everything “right” you can still be horribly “wrong” in the eyes of society. how wei wuxian would bend over backwards to follow his morals (which have been narratively shown to be somewhat the standard) but still be condemned at large because he didn’t go about it the way that was perfectly compliant with what his social superiors and other authority figures expected of him. how “good” deeds in the mdzs world (and ours) will only be accepted and praised, coming from someone of lower social standing, if they are packaged in an unobstrusive manner–and sometimes, not even then. and it’s funny how some people miss that, how they wonder what would have happened if wei wuxian had been just a bit more tempered, a bit more subservient, a bit more polite. how the expectation of delivering his kindnesses in the most unhindering manner possible is somehow an acceptable train of thought–how the burden to do better is not unequivocally placed on people like JGS, Jiang Cheng, Nie Mingjue, the Lans, etc.

some people think that wei wuxian using demonic cultivation in the eyes of the cultivation world is his downfall. nevermind the fact that he literally isn’t practicing mo dao–this whole issue is NOT about what he’s doing, but about who he is. mxtx has made that clear at multiple points in the novels but the most glaring example is, ofcourse, how the nie sect is allowed to mess with resentful energy all they like and since they are a powerful enough sect, they face no social or political backlash for it–not in the way that wei wuxian does. even then, during the war, those people had no qualms against weaponising wei wuxian’s powers for their benefit. if it truly was about the dubious morality of using mo dao for them then wei wuxian should have been condemned from the get-go. but it’s not. it’s about the son of a servant wielding enough power to change the tides of a war and then surviving to tell the tale and continue to live with the kind of power that shouldn’t be held by someone of his station. it’s about people quaking in their boots because wei wuxian has shown himself as someone who won’t conform, who won’t become a dancing monkey for their tunes.

yes, wei wuxian is not some perfect angel saint but then, why the fuck should he be??? this expectation from some readers and the members of his world alike, that wei wuxian should have been the one to give it his all and more to avoid conflict is blasphemous. in the end, wei wuxian chose his path, stuck to his ideals, and went down throwing a big fuck you at the larger cultivation world’s back, while the rest failed to break the cycle of power abuse. the fact that it took them more than a year to see him to death is just a testament to how well wei wuxian handled things than some grace given by the cultivation world. the whole “wei wuxian’s first death was inevitable” is, for me, not about wei wuxian slowly spiralling and things getting out of hand. his death was inevitable because corrupt people with power will always choose to exploit and silence, will always choose to exert their will, will always choose to hurt those lower in the chain. and that is exactly what happened with the ambush and everything that led upto it.

[wangxian-the-zhijis]

Wei Wuxian: *talks a lot* *insert long paragraph here* *insert long paragraph there* *insert long paragraph everywhere*

Lan Wangji: Mn.

Meanwhile, in another universe…

Xiao Zhan, accepting an award: *talks a lot* *insert long paragraph here* *insert long paragraph there* *insert long paragraph everywhere*

Wang Yibo, accepting an award: Thank u bye.

[Kidding aside, Xiao Zhan’s speech was lovely.]

Xiao Zhan’s Speech | Wang Yibo’s speech

Video Source

[qiu-yan]

thoughts

also wasn't sure what to do with the lan simp brothers so i guess they can sit on the side

[yingandzhan]

Something just got me thinking...

Suibian is a truly loyal sword, it refused to let anyone else use it and did what was only ever heard of in legends and sealed itself away when its master died!

The sword is monogamous. It only connected with one person and no one else would do. No one else could compare.

Spiritual weapons have a deep connection with their wielders, they are constantly permeated with their owner's spiritual energy. They are, in a way, an extension of their master.

So, it makes perfect sense that Suibian is monogamous. Because it's quite obvious that WWX is as well. WWX only ever had eyes for one person, he only ever connected to one other person in such a deep, life changing way. No one else would do, no one else could ever compare to that boy that stole his undivided attention on the Cloud Recesses rooftop the first night they met.

It was always LWJ for him, just as it was always WWX for Suibian.

Like master, like sword.

[lavender-phoenix-flames]

I think it is quite funny jc stans and their relentless tries in making jiang cheng good and likeable or going extreme lengths to prove "look wwx is bad too so it's all equal haha"

At the end of the day the text disproves everything they made up, they can blissfully accept and argue their deluded fanon to be true but it never will be. And I sleep well at night knowing that mxtx made him a loser miserable asshole and I had enough reading comprehension to know that.

Also I know jc stans seethe at the fact wwx is the ideal protagonist that he is cuz when you compare jc to wwx you truly see how big of loser jc is, how much lacking he is in comparison. Wwx is so abundant in positive traits, he is literally so good at everything except cooking and then there's jc who barely has any good traits. Their tries to paint wwx as morally grey make them look like absolute idiots cuz the narrative and the author disproves the claim. "Oh but I don't agree with the author" well your approval doesn't matter cuz in mdzs universe wwx's actions are justified and jc's aren't, also most of jc's actions are presented in a negative light anyways.

They try and make him less of a loser making stuff up like "best jiujiu" "best sect leader" "oh look jc knew/predicted everything abt wwx" "wwx is reckless and impulsive and jc is so level headed" and none of these mentioned claims are true and even when author says he is despised by women cuz of his rancid personality they are like "no she is joking ofc ofc" or "he is actually aroace" and don't even let me get started on how they want to pair him up with lan xichen or nie huaisang when in text neither of them cares about him and the fact jc himself is a homophobe and they do it just cuz they want him to not die alone pfft.

Jc stans so delusional, I bet mxtx finds them so funny, I mean how can someone be so bad at reading lol

[thatswhatsushesaid]

i think fandom spaces would become much more enjoyable across the board if people stopped flipping their pancakes over other fans enjoying characters that they don't like. or, god forbid, like them but in 'the wrong way.'

[lancabbage]

I just hate it when people try to 'fix' WWX's fear of dogs.

The dude has a legitimate reason to be frightened of them after what he's been through and as long as it doesn't affect his life and make him miserable - which it really doesn't, he's scared and runs off and now he's got a hit husband to save him and make him feel safe - why make it an issue?

Not everyone likes dogs, not everyone has to compromise and face a fear because someone else has a dog.

Why is it always WWX who has to 'get over' his fear in these fanfics? Why aren't others more understanding of his fears and keeping the dog away or leaving it at home - which you'll notice canon JL actually starts to do, especially in the extra when they are on a night-hunt.

I just think it's really inconsiderate of people to down play WWX's fear and make him "get over it" so he can play happy families as some double uncle team with JC - which is less likely to happen than WWX getting over his fear of dogs! Then again, considering the plot dynamic of these "fix it" fics, full of ooc shit they wouldn't do... I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[mxtxfanatic]

Thank you for being willing to stand up for the wonderful writing in mdsz. It is amazing especially after you unexpectedly come across a post saying Wei Wuxian would be ecstatic to join Jiang Cheng in torturing demonic cultivator because it showed JC “cared”?

It’s the instinct of abuse apologists to attempt to absolve the object of their obsession of abuse by claiming that their victim is actually ok with the abuse. “Jin Ling loves it when Jiang Cheng insults him! It’s their love language!” they say to drown out all the moments Jin Ling yells back at Jiang Cheng for how he speaks to him and others, runs away from the man, and flinches—along with Fairy—from him at the very end when Jiang Cheng lifts his hand to smack the kid yet again.

“Wei Wuxian loves Jiang Cheng, and he’d be proud of the man’s actions!” they say as if we don’t have the proof of Wei Wuxian looking at the new Lotus Pier and leaving on the note of “i never want to return,” as if the Guanyin Temple arc concluding with Wei Wuxian turning his back on Jiang Cheng with no regrets isn’t followed up by the Lotus Pod Seeds extra where a teenage Wei Wuxian says that if Jiang Cheng wanted to be a caustic asshole, then he can settle for being alone for the rest of his life.

After a while of laughter, [Wei Wuxian] turned around and looked at Jiang Cheng, who was sitting at the front of the boat eating seed pods with a long face. His smile gradually disappeared as he sighed, “Well, what an unteachable child.” Jiang Cheng fumed, “So what if I want to eat alone?” Wei WuXian, “Look at you, Jiang Cheng. Nevermind. You’re hopeless. Just wait to eat alone your whole life!”

—Chapt. 125: Lotus Pod Seeds Extra, exr

And he was right.

[admirableadmiranda]

I keep seeing the idea that Jiang Cheng is disliked or hated for his actions because "Jiang Cheng Antis” refuse to acknowledge ugly reactions to trauma, or victims who aren’t perfect, basically citing that he should be forgiven more than we do because not everyone is going to react the same to pain and trauma and just because his reactions aren’t perfect doesn’t mean that he should be held accountable for his actions, any of them, and us calling his actions wrong or abuse is us in fact being terrible.

I want to refute this idea for a few reasons:

First off, while I can’t speak for everyone, I know that I and my friends don’t think that his initial reactions being kinda bad are necessarily damning. Nobody is going to be perfect, sometimes when we are stuck in the worst parts of our lives, we do things that we will later regret in the process of surviving those times. It doesn’t really make it okay and we should understand if the people who are around us in those times don’t want to be around us anymore after that, but it isn’t a death knell that he reacts really poorly after the initial fall of Lotus Pier and the death of his parents and everyone he’s grown up with. I have forgiven characters for doing worse, but proving that it was their worst and turning around after that.

The problem with that part is that he doesn’t turn anything around. He never apologizes for strangling Wei Wuxian, he continues to turn the blame for what happened on people who weren’t involved even after getting to kill Wen Zhuliu and torture Wen Chao to death, holding Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and, for a time, Jin Zixuan as also being responsible even though none of them were, even though he knows this and adjusts his opinion later to drop Jin Zixuan out of the blame, even though he later adds Wen Ning to his list of those to blame despite Wen Ning rescuing him from Lotus Pier and sheltering him. It isn’t a worst moment of his life, brought on by trauma and pain, it’s just the start of his sliding slope downward.

Second off is the idea that this should exonerate him of all of his actions. Look at him! He lost his parents and his clan to war by the Wens! He has suffered so much, becoming a clan leader so young in the fires of war!!!

Except... he’s not the only one, not by a long shot. Lan Wangji, Lan Xichen, Nie Mingjue and Nie Huaisang all have their fathers killed and their homes attacked by the Wens as well. Both Nie Mingjue and Lan Xichen also ascend at very young ages, no one was over twenty when they took up their positions, and at the end of the novel, Jin Ling is even younger when he takes on his own clan leader position. Also he isn’t the only one to go into war so young, Wei Wuxian is a whole five days older than he is, and the whole jianghu falls into war against the Wens, no doubt with other fighters who also lost their homes and families in the process.

It isn’t that it isn’t impressive that he manages to pull it together in the face of all that’s happening, it’s that he’s not the only person by any means to suffer this trauma. Wei Wuxian goes through the exact same journey that he does, but when this argument comes up, it’s always just for why Jiang Cheng shouldn’t be blamed, not about how their whole generation lost so much to a war that their parents left to them by refusing to do anything before even when they all saw the signs of what Wen Ruohan was doing.

The third part is that there’s apparently no limit or expiration date on how long people have to forgive him for doing whatever he wants to do. His trauma is a reason for him to treat people however he wants for as long as he wants, and they should just put up with it because he’s suffering and not all pain is beautiful.

But by the time Wei Wuxian comes back to life, it’s been almost twenty years. A whole generation, long enough for Jiang Cheng to watch his nephew grow to almost adulthood. The world as a whole is changed, he himself has transformed Lotus Pier into a whole new place; and it wasn’t because the Wens had destroyed everything, Wei Wuxian no longer recognizes it, meaning that this happened after he died. The general attitude that JC stans have towards Wei Wuxian is that he shouldn’t hold Jiang Cheng leading a siege against him because it’s been long enough, he should get over it by now. But Jiang Cheng apparently should still get to act without hesitation or consideration of others and their own pain because he is suffering, he is an imperfect victim. It doesn’t matter what else anyone else has gone through and it is unreasonable to hold him to task because he lost his family.

The whole point of poor trauma reactions is that they are moments, responses in time to events. It is one thing for Jiang Cheng to react poorly right after his family is killed and his home invaded. But he gets worse over the course of the story. The day of the attack, he strangles Wei Wuxian. That’s one thing. But three years later he turns on Wei Wuxian, declares him an enemy of the world, tells him to let the Wens be slaughtered even though they are no longer at war, later declares war on Wei Wuxian and personally leads a siege to kill him. In the interim, a time of peace in which supposedly all of his enemies are dead, he hunts down people who he claims to be demonic cultivators and people that Wei Wuxian is possessing and tortures them to death, all the while doing very little to help his people as he will only intervene once someone has already died to the problem. When Wei Wuxian returns to life thirteen years after he died, seventeen years after the war, when Jiang Cheng is literally double the age that this began, despite him deliberately trying to avoid Jiang Cheng, Jiang Cheng seeks him out multiple times specifically to hurt him, first trying to kill him with a whip that can destroy spirits possessing bodies, then tying him up and torturing him with a dog. Later he leads a second siege upon Wei Wuxian, who still has done nothing to him aside from try to avoid him before later attacking him and Lan Wangji by first demanding that they leave, then refusing to let them do so, driving Wei Wuxian to a qi deviation (which can be fatal, that’s how Nie Mingjue died) and attacking Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian with Zidian while Wei Wuxian is unconcious before Wen Ning stops him. Even in the temple, he’s still demanding that Wei Wuxian play by his rules of debts, he’s upset because he knows that he has gone so much farther than anyone has any right to and he has nothing to hold over Wei Wuxian’s head anymore.

Fifteen years of hurting everyone around him isn’t a poor trauma response. That’s deliberate and chosen. That is what he wants to do. It is a clear line of events where in the end, the trauma is an excuse over anything else.

If it had ended at the beginning of this list, Jiang Cheng would be a very different character and Modaozushi would be a very different novel. If it were just a trauma reaction and he didn’t want to hurt anyone in the long run, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

But you cannot exonerate everything with the fact that his parents died when he was seventeen. Especially not when we have so many other people who react in so many other ways to the same pain. It is frankly ridiculous that people think he is the only one to suffer in the story, even though it is clear that no one escapes the novel unscathed and a hell of a lot of people die. Sometimes even at his hands or by his orders.

Jiang Cheng is not unsympathetic. I can understand what hurts he feels, at least to an extent. But an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind and he just keeps doing it. And then his stans show up and claim that it’s fine for him to want to kill everyone who he hates (not necessarily everyone who’s even done him wrong, and they certainly like to ignore everything he does to them) because he’s an ugly trauma victim.

He may be that, at the start. But twenty years down the line, when he gets excited at the thought of getting to torture people, that isn’t a trauma reaction anymore.

That’s a choice.

[mdzs-is-rotting-my-brain]

So.

I was on MDZS subReddit.

(yes, my fault I know)

Someone had posted the question that Jin Guangyao had played the Song of Tormoil on Qiongqi Road 2.0 and that made Wen Ning "Beserk" and that's what led to the death of Jin Zixuan. That wasn't in the books and wondered why it was left out.

A few ppl alerted them to the fact that the Untamed had made up a plot out of whole cloth and to not watch/take take it as canon.

But then a few other ppl felt the need to comment saying it was Wei Wuxian's arrogance that led to his downfall. And that he had "lessons" he had to learn in his second life.

Admittedly it's been a hot minute since I read the book, but I do recall Wei Wuxian as being distinctly not arrogant, and that he was proved right at the end of the novel. So I'm wondering where this idea that Wei Wuxian was arrogant came from and why it's so pervasive among the fandom when so many people read the books?

(I'm not fighting with people one reddit. Let my comments get down voted into oblivion. Internet votes are more useless that wet toilet paper)

[factsilike]

Controversial maybe, but I don't understand why people give so much preference and love to JC and WWX's non existent "brotherly" relationship (their relationship was more akin to a sect leader and his subordinate, or a master and his servant. Jiang Cheng certainly thought of him as so, however different he may have claimed him to be). JC in the novel not once called WWX his brother, and I don't think he ever said a word that wasn't harsh or critical to him either.

Why not show some more love to the actual loving and healthy sibling relationships in mdzs? Where both siblings loved and supported each other? There are plenty and they are so underrated!

Wen Qing and Wen Ning. (I don't think I need to elaborate on how sweet and cute their relationship is. Wen Qing being all stern and strict one moment and then all doting and fussy over her younger brother. Wen Ning being all meek and mild in nature and in awe of his big sister, and he's obedient and looks up to her so much. I'll never forget the impact the first Qiongqi path massacre had on me when Wen Qing, exhausted, starving and terrified for Wen Ning, faints upon learning the sheer tragedy that happened to her brother, and WWX had him seek bloody, brutal revenge on his own behalf.)

Lan Xichen and Lan Wangji. (Probably the most healthy sibling relationship in mdzs, imo. They're supportive of each other and quite close from a young age. Lan Xichen being one of the only few people who could read Lan Wangji and his emotions, awwww. His understandable rage at thinking WWX was playing with his brother's feelings led to an angry outburst that was quite unlike his usually mild, gentle temperament.)

Jiang Yanli and Wei Wuxian. (This one is adorable and sweet and so heartwarming! Jiang Yanli is the only other person besides LWJ WWX lets himself be silly and goofy with, because he knows she'll fondly indulge him and laugh with him! The way she firmly stands up for him and declares him as her brother in front of the Jin sect! The way she has stated all her life, by her everyday acts of service towards WWX, that he's her family!)

Nie Mingjue and Nie Huaisang. (Theirs was a bit of a complicated relationship but they still loved each other, and Nie Huaisang all but abandoned his morals in his quiet quest to avenge his brother's death.)

I'm not hating on people who love JC and WWX's relationship and write reconciliation fic after fic, or saying that they're wrong to do so. I'm just tired of seeing so many people portray their relationship this way as if it's canon, when JC and WWX in the novel have severed ties and don't want to be in each other's lives anymore, when the character development JC goes throughout the novel ends with him finally learning to leave well enough alone and let WWX live his life in peace with the one he loves, when there are actual sibling relationships that this fandom is sleeping on, when Jiang Cheng is canonically homophobic and will certainly never hold a wedding for WWX or anyone in Lotus Pier.

[randomness-is-my-order]

i’m going through my old reader files rn and i just realised that i have in-text bookmarks from my very first read of mdzs!! so!! i’m gonna compile them here for shits and giggles. don’t take this seriously if you somehow end up reading these because i’m not always very coherent about ANYTHING while annotating!

book one, here we go:

not this being my first comment ever. we’re off to a truly morbid start 😭

oh damn, we have jealous wangji already! that’s my second favourite wangji, preceded only by drunk wangji.

not me unwilling to accept wwx’s internal monologue here skyajqidj i was too far gone for this man too soon 😔😭

girl??? STAND UP what are you talking about?? you’ve known him for seven chapters ksuiwoekd. (but it’s so commendable of mxtx to have weaved the way the story unfolds into the story itself and not in a way that feels forced)

YAYYYYYY my favourite wangji is here!!

that’s actually the end of book one notes, which is surprising. i annotate soooo much more now, i guess mdzs was just too gripping to even have the cognizance to make comments while reading!

book two, let’s go!

i apparently REALLY liked writing out wwx’s good qualities out but can anyone blame me??

... like this is embarassing, this is simping.

simp.

SIMP???

AWWWWWWW (still one of my fave moments ever)

okay i’ve hit my pic limit so i’ll continue this nonsense in other reblogs!!

[cloudfoxy]

Every time I see someone say JC was doing what's best for his sect after the sunshot campaign I lose my shit, he gravely injured Wei Ying leaving him to die in a STAGED fight, and then went and lied to everyone saying that Wei Ying is the cultivation world's enemy KNOWING damn well all Wei Ying had there were elderly and a child a child that HE SAW, and the fact that he could've just said he defected he could've said anything but that...and I will never forget how that made me feel reading that specific part it was horrifying to see how much Wei Ying loved his "brother" and for JC to only ever see him as a servant someone who owes him for existing

[lavender-phoenix-flames]

I love this moment in the extras, I love wwx being the wise guy he is.

Also wwx's quote could apply to so many characters in the novel alone (xue yang, jin guangyao, jiang cheng, nie mingjue and su she)

But also the fact wwx never really lost himself or his judgment in hatred tho, how he was never corrupted by resentment even when he himself used resentful energy for his guidao. I love his resilience, his unwavering belief in his morals and kindness he shows the world even when the world wrong him, how selfless he is. He is just so amazing no wonder lwj fell so for him as hard as he did.

Wen Ning and Lan shizhui too, they also went through hell but never let hatred cloud their judgment. I love them all sm your honor.

Don't bring in nightless city into this cuz this was where wwx was at his lowest mentally, also those cultivators were there to kill him and those innocent Wens he was shielding, so it isn't unreasonable for him to just defend himself against 3000 cultivators who were themselves exacting an unreasonable revenge against wwx and the wens.

[navarice]

my dearest fellow mdzs stans, i really don't want to spoil anyone's fun but sometimes some things must be said. please do NOT mistake fanon characteristics for canon characteristics because by GOD is it frustrating to dissect a character when all anyone wants to do is blindly turn away from the very vivid and metastasizing flaws.

jiang cheng is an extremely complicated character, and that's why we love him. but by god, he is a jealous, self-victimizing asshole with a massive inferiority complex who likes to torture (probably) innocent look-a-likes of his (as far as he knew) dead adjacent family member. jesus christ this isn't some simple case of miscommunication (well it is but, you know no amount of communication will ever mend the giant chasm that developed between them. especially not with asians raised within the most classical case of asian parenting, i mean come on now) but a matter of deep and intense self-loathing developed since early childhood projecting violently outwards. let me be clear. he hates wei wuxian. he loathes him. he wants to kill him with his own hands again and again so some part of his convoluted sense of justice and superiority will be fulfilled. he's a classist, a bully, and abusive to everyone around him. ong at the end of mdzs, i was nearly crying tears of joy when jin guangyao flayed him flat on his ass bc that man needed to hear it. he needed to feel it. he needed to stop blaming others and blame himself.

and!! he's homophobic!! the entire cultivation world is, yes, but he's the only one we see give wei ying and lan zhan active shit for it!!

point is...his complexity makes him interesting. as a child, he was pretty alright tbh. he was understandably upset when three of his dogs got taken away and he saw his dad give a completely random kid such a gentle hug when jiang cheng never received one so far. he was a kid, and it was sad and helped the readers get a glimpse at the already dysfunctional family dynamics before wei ying came into the picture. as an adolescent/teen, yes he had a lot of unresolved rage and inferiority issues building up when he was constantly being compared to wei wuxian by his mother and not given enough reassurance from his father (once again, all present before wei ying...everyone just likes to dump the shit on him bc it's easier to point fingers at others than at yourself). perhaps he could have turned out differently if literally either of his parents stepped up and took accountability. however, after the burning of lotus pier? after the golden core transfer? after wei ying stuck around as his subordinate just as he promised, and protected jiang cheng like he promised, and defected just to save the yunmeng clan's reputation so jiang cheng doesn't have to put up with the other clan's shit, still continuing to keep his promise? after wei ying's death? idk abt y'all, but all bets are off bro.

mxtx makes it a point to make him so irredeemable. he's an exploration of what can go wrong if you let your traumas, self-hatred, and revenge fantasies blind you. he has the worst traits of his parents for a reason, directly contrasting with the other sibling, who is a perfect picture of eldest daughters born into a dysfunctional family. jiang yanli has the best traits of her parents (in terms of compassion and standing up for her family), but the family dynamics also made her the way she was. the responsible, the mediator, the occasional mother, stepping in where madam yu cannot.

there's just so much potential to hold him accountable buried under the pretense of misunderstandings and kinnie moments. he just had so many chances, more than any other character, to make a different choice. to actually look past his misgivings and unlearn the bad habits he used to protect himself as a child. i'm not saying he has to magically heal from all his traumas, but at the very least know not to be like his parents. but he wasn't written that way. because that is what happens when you give into your insecurities and generational trauma.

bottom line: jiang cheng is a fantastic archetype that needs to be explored in all his authenticity, including his moments of loyalty and cruelty.