#what if she was a social outcast and the other kids she knew just didnt like her no matter how hard she tried to be friends with them

[sonknuxadow]

i understand the disappointment of the third movie skipping over certain games and characters, but at the same time, narratively speaking it does make sense for shadow to be here already since the movies’ overarching theme is the trauma of being alone in the world

hmm i never thought about it like that you do have a point there

[felismiscellaneous]

Casonverse Expo

ok so after you see this you Cannot save it. the whole thing about the casonverse is that its solely “oral” and memory based. i cannot write down “rules” to it or anything. this post Will be lost to time and youll just have to deal with that

ok so. we begin. our story. w/ an explanation on how ectobiology has been going on earth c. basically, every once in a while to increase genetic diversity, a babeh between two of the original founders is created randomly, and said founders get to decide if they want to adopt that babeh or not.

now its been a very very long time on earth c and all of these bitches are immortal. yep. every single one. even the non godtiers, they get an immortality boon for winning the game. you know whats also a boon? all of the players getting revived. yep. every single one. because this is my au and i can do what i want.

anyways as i was saying basically at some point a babeh between john and karkat is made and this time theyre like “yeah ok well adopt this one” SO. they be goin there. and the ONE TIME they decide this is the right time the baby is fuckin BROKE. the internal organs of trolls and humans dont mesh very well when the genes are combined in the ectomachine, and this baby is basically just dying very slowly. this baby isssss Casey! well, shes not named that by her parents, but well just call her Casey for now.

john and karkat do their fuckin best to keep this thing alive but her tiny baby body is completely dysfunctional. and doesnt last very long. This is Traumatizing for Everyone Involved. anyways!! a pretty long time after that we have Cason and Jones. they were spawned at the same time. Jones is rose and kanayas horrible ectospawn, and Cason happens to be another equally horrible spawn between john and karkat! they decide to adopt this one, and fortunately it lives. This was Their First Mistake.

but before we get into Cason, lets get into Jones. Jones is,,,, very socially awkward. in fact, she often comes off as creepy to everyone else. this makes her very clingy towards her mothers, who arent That terrible at parenting. theyve got quirks, but theyre good for her. Jones doesnt really have any friends, except this Totally Cool and Not at All Dangerous cult she gets dragged into! this is the second secret shes ever kept from her mothers. the first is that shes the one who keeps bringing snails into the house. Jones likes snails, but shes not good at taking care of them. she just keeps bringing them into the house and feeding them her snack. her snack is rat poison. snails like and digest rat poison safely. snails! she likes them.

ALSO APPARENTLY SHE CAN SEE GHOSTS???? yeah lets get into that. see, Casey becomes a Regular Ghost after she dies. not a dream ghost, just a plain ol ghost. and anyways, shes around the same age as everyone else if not a year older due to Ghost Rules now, and Cason is the only one that seems to be able to see her. and then theres Jones. Jones is absolutely stunning to Casey and yes she falls so hard in dokis. but Jones is trying to ignore the fact that she can see ghosts. it makes her feel like even more of an outcast. ooooo drama! anyways those two have their own background plot going on about fighting eldritch gods or something idk.

LETS GET BACK TO CASON. see. Cason. is The Worst. like, genuinely. ever since he was a kiddo, he was a completely spoiled brat from day one, and spent his childhood Looking Down on People for multiple reasons. for one, hes the son of TWO FUCKING FOUNDERS AND RAISED BY THEM, two he got away with EVERYTHING, and three i think its just in his nature. Cason prides himself in being knowledgeable and better than everyone else, but he is not like Other Egomaniacs((tm.))

Cason doesnt necessarily care about being liked, even if he WAS a great manipulator, or being the best at Everything. he couldnt care less about sports or popularity. all he wants, is Control. just like hes had since day one. This is Terrible for Everyone Involved.

but most terrible for anyone, is Tippie Piyjon. Tippie is terezi and nepetas ectospawn, which, really started it all. now, terezi and nepeta are not horrible people, or even necessarily horrible parents, but theyre just not suited for it. Tippie raised herself on romance novels and the like, especially after being sortve taken in as a goddaughter by karkat almost immediately after she was born. and, because of this, she got to meet Cason very early on. there was hardly ever a day where the two werent around eachother, whether they liked it or not. in school, at their own house, wherever. now, being around Cason of all people all the time, meant you knew exactly how he operated.

and well, Tippie figured that, maybe, if she was just good enough, she could change him. and Cason used that to his full advantage. the two became moirails, which was Fucked Up for Everyone Involved, and grew ever closer. now Cason, being Cason, was Extremely Emotionally Abusive to Tippie. she had to do what he asked, whatever it was, even if it wasnt morally right, she had to stay by his side, she couldnt cry in front of his parents, she had to get good grades so he wouldnt look bad, so many damn things she had to do. even if he never once laid a finger on her, her mental health was, slowly but surely, chiseled down.

every attempt at defying him was met with such coldness, or hed act more warm towards her, so surely she was doing something right and had to keep going. just had to be good enough. hell get better eventually. Cason earns the title of #1 Gaslighter Extraordinare. the only place she found any solace away from him was grubscouts, which she joined on her own terms when she was very young, and at the time was a camp counselor even! this lasted. for so many years.

Cason is nineteen whenever i depict him, and Tippie is seventeen, but very nearly eighteen. eventually, she cant take it anymore, and snaps at him. usually this doesnt last, and he would manage to calm her down eventually, but shes fucking Tired of it. he hasnt changed. not even a bit. well. Cason cant have that, now can he? the first time he lays a hand on her, he slaps her across the face. Big Mistake. though terrified, Tippie lashes out, and claws Casons left eye out, making a terribly deep gash that would leave him permanently blind in that eye whether or not he got treatment.

this scares the SHIT out of her, and Tippie runs off, for the first time, to her mothers. as she cries, she recounts how terrible everythings been and how she didnt mean it and shes sorry and- theres nothing to apologize for. its very clear, that they shouldve stepped in sooner, shouldve noticed something was wrong. meanwhile, Cason crawls home to his own dads, who are rightfully spooked seeing their son with a horrifically bloody face and a gouged eyeball. they only had a second to try and comfort him, before he snapped at them, showing a bit of his true nature to them for the first time, and also, terezi showing up behind him. after a thorough explanation which was mostly just a few stern, if a little tearful words, Casons parents are completely mortified. karkat quickly kicks him out in an act of raw emotion. no chance to grab clothes, or for john to interject, Cason is left outside, alone, and with absolutely no power left. what will he do?

theres also other characters but theyre like babies so they dont have much characterization and also arent very important to the story. but here they are ig:

owen, jade and daves child. hes like, 3. he likes sticks and playing in mud. hes 3 what more do you want from him

siyren, aradia and feferis kiddo. shes like, 6. she likes ballet, arts and crafts, and being snooty

damien, eridan and solluxs kid. hes 10, likes calling people slurs over xbox, and overcompensating since his parents waited so damn long to adopt him after his slimebirth

killer, who named himself, aradia and sollux kid. hes like 11 or something. he likes being edgy and has the same issue as damien. in fact, all but siyren have this issue

toga bitch, who i have currently yet to name, aradia and eridans kid. shes 12. she likes earth rome and chilling in public fountains. a burgundy whose violetkin

wemon wemon, who is also currently unnamed, feferi and eridans kid. hes 13, the oldest. he likes earth lemon demon and horror special effects

carrie, feferi and solluxs kid. shes like 11, likes dance dance revolution and earth 9s

rosie, calliope and roxys bab, whos a baby. jane is also her mom

ben, tippies far future carapacian bf, who likes boring shit like birdwatching and scrapbooking. malewife supreme. a very soft dude, and just wants to help his gf w/ her trauma and join her grubscout troop on earning badges. just a great, if boring guy

notkonyyl, just as unnamed, a notcanadian oliveblood who enjoys going to the gym, frequenting bars, being cool, flirty, and defending her moirail to the death

notkuprum, haha unnamed, is a human, and the moirail to notkonyyl. he likes things like being annoying, flirting with everyone taller than him ((most people)), the nintendo switch, and defending his moirail to the death

[vinniespeaks]

no one has ever taught me the dos and don’ts of socializing. when someone asks me “how are you?” i generally respond with how i honestly feel and it takes a bit to realize that they weren’t expecting such a negative and/or long answer. i dont know how to start a conversation. i sit there in my phone while kids around me are able to talk and goof around, and i just dont know when i can jump in. i thought i was good at reading tone but im not. if im recieving praise or being scolded i dont know how to act. when my mom used to ask “what are you doing?” in that scolding tone i would literally tell her what i’m doing. when people are joking or being sarcastic i have to ask if they’re being serious or not and then they yell at me for not seeing how obvious of a joke or sarcastic statement it was. i thought i was empathetic but im not, either. when i hear on the news that someone died in a car accident or a famous couple divorced i just. shrug at it. and i dont know if thats just from being used to tragedies like that or just actually being low empathy.

i used to be a really sociable kid too. i would insert myself in other’s conversations, talk about myself, and i didnt know what personal space was. my mom has told me stories of being at wedding receptions and finding me at a random family that they’ve never met’s table, talking with them. as i grew older i withdrew a lot more knowing that im different from the other kids, and i was often left out of groups or told im annoying.

i preferred to do all my activities by myself, and would straight up ask my teacher if it was possible for me to do a group project by myself. sometimes they’d give in, other times not. i would often not even take that much part in the group project because i couldnt do it the way i planned to. group projects were bearable with kids i was well acquainted with, though i still preferred being alone.

i never really had a best friend either. for the first few years of elementary i was just getting to know everyone, and attached to 2 of these other girls, but i had always wanted to be friends with the boys. soon i just drifted away from everyone, because i knew they all thought i was weird. then in the last two years of middle school i had a somewhat of a solid friend group. we talked frequently at school, picked each other for projects, etc,. yet we had little to nothing in common. i really enjoyed fantasy world or action/adventure books like harry potter and percy jackson, and i loved video games and space. sometimes in group projects one of them wouldnt pick me but someone else, and suddenly i was lost. i didnt know who else to go with. so then i was stuck with some other kid who definitely didnt want to be with me either.

it shouldve been clear to my mom that something was either wrong with me or wrong with my school, because i remember the countless times i cried in her arms begging her to take me out of the school and put me in a public school, where maybe, just maybe, i could meet someone who’s just like me, who has similar interests as me, who was always seen as an outcast like me, who i could see as a best friend.

im told i should be lucky that i got a private education. that i should be grateful my family sent me there instead of public. but everyday i really regret it, and i wish my mom listened to me when i did.

public school isnt any better, but my private school was outrageously homophobic, ableist, any bigotry in the book. my teacher asked me once what i did after school each dat. i told her that after school i liked to take a break, because school is really tiring for me. she said i should do my work as soon as i get home.

no one thought that my immense piles of late work was maybe a sign of neurodivergency. i was yelled at for it, made to feel embarrassed, because i was “lazy” and i didnt care for my teachers, and stuff like that. i was withdrawn of the joys my other classmates could enjoy while i was crumbling under piles of worksheets. i had to stay in from lunch and gym time everyday in eighth grade because of my work. when everyone else who had their work done could be out of uniform, i was still in uniform, and i wasnt allowed to be out until i had all my work done. it was like wearing a badge of guilt. that i was telling everyone i was lazy, or stupid, or messy, and it was embarrassing.

[pchangposts]

a melancholic realization.

its about 12 am on a saturday night and i hadnt received a single snap, text message, or fb message today. as i watch all my friends having fun with each other via their social media, it starts to dawn on me where my place in their lives is. ive always been envious of people who have some tight group of friends they can always rely on to hang out with and just have fun together casually. i feel like i was always the kid that people knew and was friends with, but i was never really included in like a “best friend” type of group where people would just hit me up and ask to hang out. that was until i joined PBL and everyone was constantly asking to hang. even though i was introverted, it felt nice to be a part of a tight friend group for once. and then i took that for granted when i started to join APO. 

all of a sudden i started a new friend group with my $ fam and before i knew it, i had drifted away from my old PBL fam. even in their social media stories today, i see them hanging out all the time, going to events together, grabbing routine dinners with each other. part of me thinks, what if i had just stuck with PBL. would i have been included in all these close friend group routines? i definitely do miss these friends right now but at the time i joined APO, i didnt much care about these thoughts because i felt so happy and tight with my APO fam/friends. hung out everyday, went to events together, could hang out with anyone at any given time. yeah, i was happy. I developed some of my closest relationships during APO and im grateful for it. i guess i just wish that it lasted even after college. i see all of them hanging with each other in their stories, with my self absent and uninvited. i appreciate the times i do get invited to big parties or events that are thrown, but at the same time, it feels like those might be the only things i may be invited to in the future. they all celebrate birthday meals with each other and just from simple stuff like that, i just miss being able to casually hang out with them. but i know i have no right to impose myself on stuff they dont feel the need to invite me to, i get it. life after college, definitely gets lonely. it was a lot easier with my roommates in oakland right after college. they were fun, inviting, and very easy to get along with. after they moved out i think i just felt that a part of me left with them. i definitely miss them a lot. i love my roommates right now too, but at the same time, i feel as though i have to tread carefully and hold in a lot of my thoughts. just recently, i was scolded for saying my first thought (which i thought was a very trivial one at that). i felt bad and so now, i feel as though i dont want to say anything as to not start any trouble. i want to be able to hang out with the roomies but theyre all so busy, i feel the house is empty half the time. i find myself alone in my room for periods of time, hoping for someone to message me to hang out or even grab a simple bite to eat. but im starting to lose all these connections and i start to receive fewer and fewer messages every day from people. and its making me think: maybe my time up here in Bay Area is over? anytime someone asks me when i would consider moving back to SoCal, i always proudly tell them, “in several years, when all my friends in SF have moved away”. maybe i was naive thinking that “moving away” had to be a physical connection. i now realize, its more of an emotional connection and if i were to move back to LA, probably no one would rly care? i wish it were as simple as that but unfortunately, i have no one back in SoCal to return to either. everyone in high school had cast me out like a loner and an outcast. that was part of the reason i was excited to move to berkeley for school for a fresh start. guess everything came full circle huh. definitely the one friendship i regret losing the most would be with serena. she was a loyal friend and one i could count on. i just wish i hadnt taken it for granted. i wish i hadnt taken all of these friendships for granted. saw some quote somewhere “i wish there was a way to know youre in the good ol days, before youve actually left them”. maybe if i knew that, i couldve done something different to maintain my relationships with friends. 

lol or maybe im just being super angsty right now because im taking accutane, which are meds known to cause depression. which is ironic cause im taking the meds since i was self conscious and depressed about my acne and it helped get rid of my acne. but yeah, id say if you were to ask me if i was happy with life, i could quite confidently tell you no. ive lost a lot of the meaningful connections with my friends, and it only gets harder to make new ones as you grow older. im not really sure what to do with myself and i dont know how im gonna survive. but watching some throwbacks on Disney Plus is at least helping a little bit. i hope i can be happy again one day. i hope i can read this in a couple years and be able to tell myself, youre gonna be ok. 

[strawberryspeachy]

I had to stop watching the social dilemma when the fucking ai put someone in a relationship.... ummm no. She got into a relationship.

To me the film just feels like more ‘oooh technology scary! Old ways better - black mirror’ shit

Also rude to say my generation wasnt on social media in middle school - i had plenty of old ass social media in middle school like myspace

Growing up is hard. You used to only find out what was happening in school and if you or someone you knew didnt know another group in school personally - then you didnt know about their lives

The conversations were limited to breaks during school. If you were close enough you could talk on the phone after school. The weekends were the only time you could engage with others

When you dont interact with others often - theres less time to get to know them and realize you dont mesh. Less time for intense relationships either good or bad.

Before the internet people didnt share their deepest thoughts - or regret post at 3am. You didnt know what they were eating or watching. You didnt see the other people they interact with when theyre not talking to you. People couldnt show off photoshopped pictures of themselves and you only saw them in their best oufits friday and saturday

Maybe im entirely wrong but the internet felt free when i was in middle school. Corporations didnt know how to monitize it so the people who created content and platforms to talk with people - did it purely for fun.

Then capitalist got their grubby fingers on it and ripped all the fun away.

I barely ever see videos about silly made up characters there just to make me laugh. Im sure they exist but the algorithm doesnt let them on the front page

Then again. Maybe people dont wanna see it anymore? Idk

But i just cant get behind this ‘blame the technology- scary robot’ fear mongering.

People suck ok. Thats all there is to it. People. Just. Suck.

We are not in some new world where everything is more chaotic. I spent the entirity of high school telling my mom that. Bad things always happened. Horrible people always existed - you just didnt know about it.

Now everyone can post a story picture or video from anywhere in the world at any time. And they can show the world in real time.

Thats the only difference.

Imagine if people had the internet during the witch burnings or any other insane moment in history.

My mom always said “people werent like this when i was a kid” but yes. They were. But you only knew the small group of people in your town, like minded people, sensored by catholism. No one spoke their mind because they didnt want to be outcasted

But now not matter what you think you can find a community online. Doesnt matter if you just want to find other people who like anime or if youre a nazi - theres people.

And when people arent theatened with being outcasted - they speak their minds. Just like all the people who thought you should burn witches. If there was just one dude who threw out there one day ‘hm. Women who are um. Like witchy and stuff.... should be... punished! Right?’ And everyone was like uh wtf no - let them do what they want. That guy wouldnt have told people that witches float so if you throw them in a lake and they drown, they were innocent and if they float - burn them! People would have locked him away if he were the only one. So unless he decided to be a lone serial killer - he woulda just kept his ideas to himself

So just personally. I cant get behind this idea that its purely social medias fault. I blame the corporations that monetized everything. The people paying the “influencers” the eurocentric beauty standards that have been perpetuated forever.

And. Sorry. But also parents like the one in the first half of that video. If your kid breaks into something to get their phone that you told them not to use YOU TAKE IT AWAY FROM THEM

Also i turned off notifications from all my social media years ago. It is better that way. But i dont honestly think its a problem that the first thing i do when i wake up is look at my phone to see if anyone texted me.

I dont however appreciate that my work day never ends because employers can email and call me at any time of the day and expect a reply. That shits fucked.

[acefaerie]

I think its really understandable that a lot of younger people sort of assuming that somehow not having an attraction to others is seen as a virtue especially by religious groups. 

When i was a teen my lack of interest in relationships was seen by the adults in my life that “oh she is just shy” “she’s been a good girl and focusing on school work” and tbh that was the narrative i told myself.  

except, looking back there was an underlying concern from adults that I was “missing out” on the Ideal Teen Romance TM. I got hints of it when ever I made a new male friend. “Oh he looks like he might be your type.” followed by a hopeful smile. after a while i got the “Its okay if you like girls” because i think by this time my parents had realised “she’s really not that interested in boys is she”.

but these instances were mild, my parents, specifically my mother who is “liberal” mind you, and had many close female friends who were lesbian and bi, kept out of my way. I was doing well at school, i was a “good girl”. So for me i think i get why some young people don’t understand the pressure for people to pair up because when you are in highschool if there is pressure its from peers and generally parents consider you to be “just a late bloomer”. But this is my experience, which was.. 15 years ago, and the world has changed quickly and drastically it may be different for others. It may also be that i am privileged in coming grom a generally accepting family, that is not religious, that would have accepted without question any girls I brought home (in fact i was asked if i wanted to).

My peer group generally either made jokes about my lack of interest or assumed i was gay. the general knowledge around school was i was gay, even my guy friends who never asked me also just.. assumed that was the case. I was lucky in the sense that like my mother most of my friends were either bi themselves and therefore didn’t care or pretty liberal minded. so i was cushioned... except for this one girl Tanya. She was homophobic and hated me because of it, i know this because i overheard her complaining about me one time and it generally was about how she had interpreted any causual friendly touch i had with my other friends as “creepy and weird”. I was forced to spend time with her because one of my “best” friends  was really good friends with her (who we have another story about but its only slightly related to this) and wanted us to hang out all the time. 

Tanya made my last year of highschool hell. She poisoned friends against me, and created a sort of social outcasting that left me without a support group. I was unlucky that a lot of my out bi friends who accepted me dropped out the previous year for various reasons. So i was left with the only people who sort of hung out with me being the largely straight (or closeted best friend who when she did start dating a girl, did so in secretl) acquaintances of those friends, who were easily convinced by Tanya to drop me from the group.

but here is the thing. I never called myself gay, (a am a pan/bi ace yes but at the time the only thing i ever said or did was say “Im not really interested in boys” because I really didnt know what i was) just not being interested  was enough for Tanya. 

besides  my awful experience with Tanya I get why teens think “not being interested” puts a pretty light target on your back. even if my parents were disappointed i didnt experience the “ideal teen romance TM” it wasnt a huge concern. The bullying a recieved from Tanya is also ambigious because she was exactly the kind of bigot who was bigoted against everyone who was different she was basically the epotime of what prejudice people talk about when they talk about the “prejudice tree” where a bigotted person who is biggeted against one thing is bigotted against most things that are different from them.

What was my point. Oh, yes. in highschool the main negative reactions i got were from people sharing frustration and disappointment about me dating (though the “late bloomer” thought pretty much silenced this crowd) and the more aggressive lot who were homophobic and i fit enough of the criteria for them to consider me a target.

The first negative thing, the frustration and disapointment, as an ace i think that has become more impactful the older I have got. The pressure started to hit hard in my twentie. “Something is wrong with you” reactions from people grew the more i became “clearly an adult” Friends who were fine in highschool suddenly treated me like i was a kid who didn’t know anything about anything because “i hadn’t had a relationship or sex what do i know about being an adult”. My parents, though well meaning became more and more worried abut what was wrong with me.

Omg the relief they felt when i had a relationship that lasted two weeks (where i cried the whole time and barely even kissed the person).

relationships and sex are treated by our society as a right of passage for becoming an adult. So its fine to be a late bloomer, but thats what these people think you are “a late bloomer” not fully complete yet, still growing.

my mother who was so supportive in my teens and early twenties started letting her anxiety about me leak through when i spent most of my 20s not even “just single” but actively not looking I think she even once told me she just wanted me to have the experience of a real relationship, after i had one that was online (which was like having one without having to touch a person which i enjoyed, until he came over and there was touching and i didn’t enjoy it as much anymore because both I and he forced me into sexual situations i was not ready for but had been convinced by everyone i knew that that is what you did if you were in a relationship) after him i felt physically ill if i knew a person found me attractive so actively avoided being “too sexy” so people wouldnt.

the first healthy relationship slightly romantic relationship i had was a Queer platonic one, with a woman. Everyone knew we were in love, even my professors. but it remained platonic and honestly helped free me from all the toxic stuff that happened before. Im still incredably close to her. 

at this time though I was in my mid to late thirties, and my families comments had become less “you are too picky” to “Im worried you will never find someone” “you are nearly 30″ “what if you want kids you can’t leave it too late”. 

its all small stuff but it mounts up. its mirco-aggressions that become deafening. Im childish because i don;t like sex i need to grow up, im weird im wrong im mistaken im making my parents sad, why can’t i be who they want me to be, my mother crying because she just wants me to have a special person but never understanding that my QPR WAS my special person because to her that was just a friend, people saying i don’t know what i want, people saying im a loser cos they never see me dating, people telling me they ” think being single is a sign of failure” people telling me that when they call me a prude its an insult and im weird if i dont feel bad for being a prude, people telling me i should be interested, “don’t you find him attractive”, “sex is amazing what do you mean you dont like it”,” i think you are just scared of love”, “you must be a closet lesbian”, “your just a straight faking for attention.” “why are you trying to date normal people isnt there a website for people like you?” “its not our fault there arent many of you”, “your a bad girlfriend if you don’t like kissing he/she will be hurt if you wipe the saliva away or if you say you arent attracted to them”, “you don’t understand what love is” “you are confused” “you are sick, see a doctor”, “you’re abusive,” “ you don;t know what you are talking about”, “your sick, is it a hormone deficiency” “HAH you don’t like sex just get married then you wont get any”, “how can you not feel attracted then,” your abusive if you have sex but not sexually attracted”, “you’re abusive if you dont have sex cos you are with-holding from the other person”, “it's okay if you dont want sex for now know but thats just how relationships progress”, “Why don't you like him he likes you, “” Im worried you are going to be alone for ever” 

The pressure of it used to keep me up at night where i felt i was FAILING everyone i knew because i just couldn't bring myself to feel that way about another person. I became deeply depressed. It was the main reason i considered suicide.

when i finally did enter a relationship again after two years of EVERYONE pushing for it. that pressure stopped in so far as people stopped pressuring me to be with him, but now i feel like i have to pretend to be normal so people will leave me alone, and i feel like part of me is lying to myself.

I worry about falling back into unhealthy patterns where i play the role of girlfriend just so i can stop people from knowing im weird. The only saving grace is this time my partner and I know im asexual. He doesn’t quite understand it but he respects my boundaries. still part of me feels like this relationship is a compromise. he doesn't get it completely even though he tries.  he treats me well and i love him,  Its just getting to this point my twenties were years of me ripping up my insides because of all the things society was saying to me. I felt trapped between the fear of being alone and the fear of having to force myself into a relationship again. 

So i get why young people dont get what negativity you can face for being aro/ace but thats because the virtue of being disinterested is only a virtue if its temporary. and even then don’t underestimate the power of bigots to sniff out a difference to target you for.

[findingconnormurphy]

Finding Connor Murphy

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

You both like Dear Evan Hansen.

You: Dear Evan Hansen, I want to thank you. Because of you I'm alive? And I backpacked Europe. and fell in love. With you. CM

Stranger: I wish there was a song when Connor killed himself

You: Yeah but then like you know? DEH would be just as shitty as 13 reasons why

Stranger: true but i feel like it could be just about him right then and then it happens off stage, just so we get more insight to connor

You: I need 8oo percent more Connor and how bad he was off and I wish there was an entire musical about him and a person he ran away with and they tell us everything we missed and we want and it's called Finding Connor Murphy

Stranger: Write it

Stranger: I would watch the hell out of that

You: Like not even good things but things like "When he got mad sometimes he hit a wall, other times he tore up a notebook of paper till he could see again, and then he would ugly cry for an hour and wish he could go to therapy"

Stranger: Yeah. I would love that. and i feel like if the same people wrote it, they could write it so that people could relate to it too

You: Like when DEH won over the comet of 1812 I was like "We don't get a happy ending...because we needed a real one"

Stranger: yeah. i mean, i related to the social anxiety and i would def respond to the depression and everything of connor

You: Like who was Connor what the hell happened that Larry and Cynthia and Zoe could give up?

Stranger: And it makes me so sad that all we see apart from the first like five minutes is Evan's portrait of Connor

You: Gay dead Ghost Connor

You: so I had this ongoing thing of like Connor was stupid and ran off to like Albuquerque with a girl who he had just me and they have like this wild week and the fun just ends as he gets worse and then all of a sudden there just in a car crash and he calls 911 and that's how he's brought back home but this girl Molly (Because Connor wants "another hit of Molly" all the time and is never really on drugs) only finds out he's dead from Evan's speech

Stranger: yes

Stranger: i agree with that

You: So she spends the entire time arguing with Evan when she goes to his community college about how she know's its a lie because She knew Connor and how she wrote and she has to convince everyone about the Connor Lie the Connor truth about how he wasn't great but he was real and that's all that's important

You: And then I also want like some of the people who faulted Evan to just have the lies they trapped him in kind of exposed and for some other characters to have to face things they've done

You: Like the number one question I have is why did he throw a printer

Stranger: i dont remember that, when did that happen??

You: Second grade it was briefly glossed over

Stranger: OOHHHHH YEAH at the teacher

You: yeah

Stranger: and like how did he even

You: my number one theory is that Jared's actually sort of a bully? Or Connor always needed help and Larry never let him

You: Because Jared does say problematic things to Evan and Connor both and then plays the victim card later on

Stranger: I feel like Jared is a bully but also just terrified of being a social outcast

You: like he can be both

You: so what if Connor wants to be friends but in second grade he's already got the weird label and Jared's just a chubby kid so the last thing he wants to do is be the weird Jewish kid (it hurts me a little to say that) with the weird Angry Friend who probably rips wings off bugs? So Jared tells him that no one will like him or trust him ever and he can't do anything and the teacher hates him

Stranger: yeah i feel like that's probable

You: and Connor, little seven year old willow boy Connor asks the teacher if he can lead the line and the teacher tells him no and everything Jared said is true in that moment because he's Seven

You: So Connor throws the printer because he's not all right any time and Jared Makes It Worse throughout the rest of his life

You: I've had a lot of thoughts

Stranger: yeah

Stranger: I can tell

Stranger: it's awesome

You: thank you???

You: That's really nice of you to say >////<

Stranger: All my 'friends' tell me to shut up if i try and bring up DEH

You: I have a lot of feelings and found it to be a really important thing

Stranger: yeah. I'm obsessed with the part in Good For You where you can just tell that Evan's totally overwhelmed and he sings "find a way to stop it stop it just let me off" cause i feel like that is my internal monologue all the time and its amazing to hear it validated

You: It is and I just feel awful because?? He's practically fended for himself since he was a kid and his dad was gone and now his mom- his mom hates him, the Murphy's hate him and ALANA was the one who fucked that up and Jared hates him and he was never really friends with him till after Connor died and yeah, Connor dying made his life okay- not great, but okay- and it all started because the Murphy's refused to listen when he tried telling the truth

You: DEH is the story also of how a mentally ill kid is used up and the people around him never listen when he needs help and betray him through the lies they've forced him into

Stranger: It is, and that's why people relate to it

Stranger: and thats so sad, but it's good that if people understand it, it can change for us

You: mmhmm

You: and like how it took a dead figment of his imagination for us to realize that he didnt fall

You: Like a bunch of scribbled up suicide notes but shows aren't supposed to have them in them really

You: Like it's part of a thing, they're not supposed to show the death, describe how it happened, or have portions of the suicide note there

Stranger: mmhmm

You: so yeah I've had many thoughts about Finding Connor Murphy

Stranger: write them a letter!!!

You: like I don't even need it to be a real show it can be a shitty backyard production with a beat up off key guitar and three people

You: Zoe, Evan, and Molly just .. being real

Stranger: yeah. i would be behind that

You: yay

Stranger: you're awesome

You: nuuuu >/////<

Stranger: yeah you are

You: I'm definitely keeping this convo this is like the most I've written it out ever

You: usually I just get into arguments that Jared's not that bad

You: No, no, he's done shitty things too

Stranger: this is the best convo i've had on omegle

You: omg

Stranger: i have to go, do you have the convo saved?

You: I may or may not have created a blog

[trendingnewsb]

Sympathy for the Incel

If you want to know why young men are broken, ask them.

There is a cultural crisis emboldening the misogyny and violence of the little-known incel movement (an abbreviation for the self-professed involuntary celibate community of men) and which has now been tied to three mass murders: Elliot Rodger, Chris Harper-Mercer and, this week, the alleged Toronto killer Alek Minassian, who is accused of killing 10 and injuring 15 people in one of the most horrific acts of mass violence in Canada in years.

One after another, media outlets are seeking to understand how this could happen while raising the question of how we got here. The Internet is enabling a community of men who want to kill women, read the headline in The Verge. Can the radicalization of incels be stopped? asked the Globe and Mail. But one headline stood out, from The National Post: What should we do about the incels? Maybe help them. Shouting about what horrible women-hating losers they are (which they may be) is not going to prevent one of them from murdering again.

This, in particular, is the question Im concerned with, and why I am attempting to find whatever empathy or compassion might be possible for the disconnected young men flocking to the movement and who might be at a crossroads. One young man stood out in the countless hours I spent listening to podcasts, videos and chat room conversations within the incel community which I have been following for months now: 19-year-old Jack Peterson, a socially awkward Chicagoan who after hours of interviews agreed to reveal his real identity for the first time to The Daily Beast.

To be clear, Peterson initially did not want to do any media regarding the group, particularly a profile on what the makings of an incel look like, but after considering my appeal that perhaps others might want to reach out if they could have a better understanding, he agreed.

Born Kalerthon Demetro in the suburbs of Chicago, Peterson (his mothers last name) is a high school dropout who lives with his single mother and whose father left when he was two years old. Peripherally involved in the online incel community for years, Petersons first reaction to the Toronto horror was to record a podcast specifically condemning violence and misogyny and underscoring that for the majority of participants, this is not their reality. For him and many like him, he says, the incel community is a means of supporting one another in a world when it sometimes feels like there is no one else.

To listen to the teenager speak, he does not seem psychopathic. He does not seem like he endorses psychopathy. On the contrary, he seems shy and awkward and lonely and angry. He laughs when other incels make dark jokes about killers, but he does not make them himself. He gets it. They are blowing off steam.

Being an incel is not about violence or misogyny, repeats Peterson, who is the only incel who has been on television doing interviews in recent days since the alleged Toronto killer pointed a finger at the incel movement in a cryptic post on Facebook confirmed earlier this week. Yes, for some guys it is, but not for me. Not for many of us.

The challenge in covering the incel movement is that in many cases the cherry-picked and sensationalist coverage reinforces these mens persecution complexes and drives them further into a pit of rage-fueled nihilism. Attempting to find any kind of compassion is in no way to excuse or normalize the deranged among them. On the other hand, it is to see what options we have left in reaching them at all.

In the groundbreaking book Change or Die, author Alan Deutschman writes, [The sense of self is threatened by any major change in the deep-rooted patterns of how we think, feel, and act, even a tremendously positive change such as leaving behind a life of crime and addiction. A change in progress demands new explanations for a past thats now cast in a darker light.

Essentially, reaching someone entrenched within a near-fanatical belief system is often impossible because the ego will put up a fight to the death in order to not deal with the psychic pain of feeling that everything that has been done up until this point has been done wrong. But it is possible.

In Deutschmans book, spanning extensive research on changing past negative behavior to future positive actions, one case study of a parole officer illuminates how he found the most success in reaching the seemingly unreachable. By realizing that the real reason why people dont change is demoralizationthe overwhelming sense of hopelessness and power he applied the theory that the most he could do is to inspire a new sense of hope and power. Indeed, this officer invited 14 of the most argumentative ex-convicts and spent 90-minute sessions listening to them rather than telling them what to do. The response was extraordinary. The parole officer recounted: In one and a half hours they calmed down. They said, These guys arent against us. Now they come back every week and say, At least Im being listened to. In the last year the difference has been huge. They want to make a change.

In speaking to Peterson on the phone, while a journalist is about as a far away from a parole officer as you can get, its amazing the difference that occurs when I listen to what he has to say about the reality of incel culture versus how he sees the media portraying its members.

In his view, as despicable and morally unfathomable as the psychopathic fringe is, the reality of the wider membership estimated in the tens of thousands of active members is far more complex.

The way Peterson tells itand as is supported by his digital footprint of videos, podcasts and commentsfor him and many others, to be an incel is to seek the camaraderie of a group of male peers who provide an outlet where, for once, they can honestly talk about the increasing fragmentation, disconnection, alienation and ostracization they feel in an always-online world in which, as far as they can see, they are not welcome or wanted.

Peterson compared the mischaracterization of incels to the xenophobic broad brush that takes a minority of radicalized Islamic suicide-bombers and uses it to condemn the vast majority of Muslims. Instead, he said, there is an acceptance that there is a vile minority who distorts the vision of the communitybut that it is not his vision for the group.

Like many in the incel community, Peterson essentially grew up without a strong father figure.

His mother kicked his father out because, in Petersons words, he used to beat the shit out of my mother and she got a restraining order. His father was the same age that he is now when he got his 39-year-old mother pregnant, and hes never met him, but they have spoken on the phone a few times.

I dont really have any feelings about him, Peterson says. He just kind of is.

From an early age, Peterson felt a level of social anxiety that was bearable but distinct. His kindergarten teacher asked him why he did not play with the others. He said, I dont know how.

Things started to change around the third or fourth grade. It was the first time the girls started making fun of him, he says, saying he was creepy and gross and weird.

I didnt understand it, he says. I was told either to act like a man or that girls could do no wrong. And yet I was constantly told that men were the cruel, bad ones. None of it made any sense to me. I was just extremely shy. I didnt talk to them, but the teasing was relentless and made me want to kill myself.

In the seventh grade, Peterson transferred to three different middle schools all in one year as the bullying followed him everywhere. By the time he reached high school, he says, one young woman started taking photos of him and sharing them with other girls who openly laughed in his face about how ugly he was and why they did not want him near them. He did not finish his freshman year at the Chicago Academy for the Arts, but dropped out after the first semester. His mother never knew the extent of the bullying he experienced.

I was just ashamed, he says. How do you talk about that?

The profoundly formative pain of youthful bullying has been around forever. When a classmate taunts you and proclaims your worthlessness to all your peers, if you are a kid, the humiliation of such an experience doesnt feel like its happening in a classroomit can feel like a worldwide-televised death sentence.

Very few kids on the receiving end of the cruelty know how to deal with itbecause of a lack of life experience that is just as undeveloped as their pubescent brains.

But for a kid growing up today, the tool of the Internet levels the game. No longer do you wonder, Will anyone ever love me? Now you can Google it, and find secret places and communities and bodies of knowledge that your parents dont even know exist. This can be exciting, emboldening, a total game-changer.

I remember the first time I found a site that even mentioned the word incel, I was like, Woah, these guys are outcasts, too, he says. I kind of felt like, maybe Im not alone.

At the age of 11, Peterson visited 4chan for the first time, and he saw his rage and loneliness expressed as well as the impotence of such advice as just get over it. He didnt know how to. He didnt have anyone to ask. He just didnt want any more ridicule.

It was kind of crazy to see and read a lot of the stuff I did, Peterson says. But it was also the only place where other guys talked about some of the things I was experiencing. Feeling so alone and rejected by the people around you. I was extremely shy then, and still kind of am, but it makes you feel really fucked up to be told youre a creepy loser by a pretty popular girl when youre just sitting there, saying nothing, doing nothing, wishing you were invisible but instead being the quiet freak with the cystic acne all over his face.

He also received an indoctrination into the culture of these young men who accepted him and what they found acceptableand what he would need to as well if he were to finally fit in somewhere.

To understand the increasingly irony-rich language of the users, its essential to read Angela Nagles book Kill All Normies, which exquisitely captures the critical shift in online perspective and the death of what remained of a mass culture sensibility that happened at exactly the same time Peterson began actively engaging with it.

In her brilliant book documenting the culture wars of the extreme left and the extreme right in recent years, focusing on subcultures including 4chan and incels, Nagle describes the attitude rebellion on the site against the sentimentality and absurd priorities of Western liberal performative politics and the online mass hysteria that often characterized it.

Peterson is one of the best representations of exactly how these culture wars are shaping our young mens identities.

When everything is ironic, nothing is. So they mock it. All of it.

Theres this big hypocrisy in the fact that so many people who say they are all about human rights and empowerment think its actually funny when boys get mocked, he says. I never said a single misogynistic thing growing up. And I was punished. Just because I was weird. I couldnt help it. I honestly wanted to die.

On the contrary, the incel communities he found online seemed different.

When I dropped out of high school, the one place I felt okay about stuff for a little while was when I was online, Peterson tells me. By the time I discovered the incel culture on Reddit, it felt like, Okay, Im not insane. I was reading all these other guys stories about how girls told them they were repulsive. I never identified with the misogyny, but I did identify with the rage at the hypocrisy of just how untouchable women were in society. No matter what, no matter what awful thing a woman did, it was always supposed to be like, Oh yeah, thats female empowerment. But when you have no friends and are getting bullied and humiliated by women constantly and are told to both man up and renounce your masculinity its like the one bright light you see is this community.

By the time he was 16, Peterson finally met in person a young womanfour years older than himwith whom he had been chatting online since he was 12 years old. She did not know what he looked like for some time, and when he finally shared his picture, she told him that she didnt find him attractive. He lost his virginity to her, after which he says she ridiculed his penis size and laughed at him. Later, she sent him copies of messages that she had sent on to other men she was cheating on him with where she explicitly described the sex acts she wanted done to her. (Ive seen corroborating evidence of all of this.)

I was literally cucked, Peterson says. That word doesnt have any meaning anymore, but thats what I was. I still wanted to see her though. She was the only girl who had ever expressed interest in me, even though she tore me down and told me how ugly I was. It was still better than nothing.

According to Peterson, the relationship finally disintegrated when she began choking him and tried to go after him in her car. He ran to a nearby store to get help, and has the actual footage of the security cam showing him flailing against the glass window. The police came, and to cover for the girl, he said that he was suicidal. He spent three days in a mental institution because of it.

This was a turning point for Peterson.

He finally aligned himself fully as an incel. He was, in the words of Internet argot, black-pilled.

Anyone who has dabbled in understanding Internet lingo is likely familiar with the term red-pilled (inspired by the film The Matrix, where Neo is offered a blue pill where everything stays status quo or a red pill where the ugly truth is supposedly exposed). Adopted by mens rights activists around 2004, to get red-pilled is to subscribe to the particular ideology that feminism is a cancer and men are the real victims. But what does it mean to get black-pilled, as many refer to this communitys belief system? It sounds as bleak as it is.

Essentially, the philosophy is that everything is broken and the answer lies in refusing to engage in a meaningful or constructive way with society. (The phrase black pill first appeared in 2012 on a blog called Omega Virgin Revolt.) A critical part of being black-pilled is recognizing, with zero sentimentality or euphemism or explaining away, that women do not like genetically inferior men. They now have infinite options in the form of men who are higher status (be it, economic, physical, or intellectual) because of the breakdown in societal monogamy and now high-status men can game apps and use hypergamy (or dating up) to their advantage. (Meaning, a less attractive woman will nowadays reject a less attractive male if she is suddenly able to have meaningless sex with a high status man, who can juggle multiple women. This leaves men who are not as good-looking in the dust.)

Incels theorize that once you are black-pilled, you are finally given the gift of brutally honest Darwinian truth that, essentially, the game is rigged, so why bother? With such entrenchment in the truth of the doctrine comes freedom. No longer do you have to run around in circles. You can accept the world for what it is and settle back into your status on the lower rungs.

If you are red-pilled, you might take this theory of female behavior to use it in manipulative pick-up strategies to try to game women into thinking you are higher status or to find the weakest prey.

If you are an incel and have never had a single successful romantic attempt or only disastrous ones, this type of theorizing provides that wonderful feeling of certainty that comes with confirmation bias and the emancipation from regret of knowing that nothing could have been done anyway. Which is why many incels describe being black-pilled as an awakening from humiliation. Like finally realizing that you have been the subject of a joke that everyone else has been in on the whole time.

For a young man like Peterson, spouting such beliefs, he seems not so much a product of toxic masculinity as a failure of masculinity itself.

No one is teaching these men how to be men. This doesnt mean men in the sense of mens rights activists, but a healthy, balanced (not extremist) definition which includes someone who treats women well but also treats himself well by not being afraid to think for himself with opinions that deviate from the loudest, most hateful elements in the community.

But isnt the worst parts of the incel community hate speech? And shouldnt such hate speech be eradicated?

In Nadine Strossens timely new book Hate, she makes the case for countering bad speech with more speech, and illustrates how in countries where hate speech speech laws have been enacted, support for racist and xenophobic politicians has risen. In Europe, hate speech laws have in fact been used as a means of stifling dissent amongst the disenfranchised.

Equal justice for all depends on full freedom of speech for all, she writes.

Not only that, but as Keith Whittington argues in his new book Speak Freely, offensive speech is crucial to safeguard because of its utility in generating, testing, and communicating ideas.

One of the most brilliant defenses of the subject is Jonathan Rauchs 2013 essay, The Case for Hate Speech in The Atlantic, where he thanks the loudest and most noxious voices he faced along the way in his fight for gay marriage. [W]e won in the realm of ideas, he writes. And our antagonists–people who spouted speech we believed was deeply offensive, from Anita Bryant to Jerry Falwell to, yes, Orson Scott Card–helped us win.

For the incel community, of course, many of the ideas espoused are in defense of their identity as the losers of society, which frees them of the need to take personal responsibility.

I think thats a valid criticism, Peterson says. I get sick of the guys who seem like they just want to keep others down no matter what. Its almost like you are scorned when you experience a little bit of success.

The podcast Peterson recorded after the Toronto attack represents the incel community as not seeming as extreme as a cursory visit to the incel-tracking site We Hunted the Mammoth or the incel-mocking community Incel Tears might lead you to believe. On these sites, in the communitys most chilling screengrabs, posts include suggestions that in order to truly terrorize the women who have rejected incels over the years, perhaps mass acid attacks and rapes could be coordinated in order to inflict the same damage upon women that these young men feel has happened to them.

In contrast, Petersons podcast discussion contains an unusual degree of literacy about sociological phenomena, including the Japanese trend of hikikomori, or isolationism and utter retreat occurring with young men, which many incels predict will spread around the world in due time.

But at its core, it is still a conversation littered with misogyny and resentment.

At one point, someone says that women use men like emotional tampons. Another brings up the possibility of mandated girlfriends (or state-sanctioned rape, as shown on the new season of The Handmaids Tale). A joke is made that the best-case scenario is when incels go ER (or Elliot Rodger). There is discussion about the evolutionary benefits of sexual violence, which harkens Rodgers infamously deranged advocacy of a program where men could kill all women because if women were able to choose their own mates, their inferior brains would devolve humanity completely. Someone laughs about the idea of blackmailing women into having sex with them by threatening to post nude photos online. Peterson himself brings up the idea of access to assisted suicide for incels to prevent future attacks, and he suggests that talking to those who wonder about incel culture might help with improving our image, especially if you attach a face to the incel phenomenon, I think that that makes it more sympathetic.

Peterson clarifies to me: He was not suggesting it be him.

I meant someone else, but then it turned out, I guess I was the only person dumb enough to show my face in videos I made online, he says. So here we are.

When I ask him about the references in the podcast to Rodger, he responds, That guy was fucking nuts. I dont really joke about going ER, but I dont tell the guys who make those jokes not to do it because I know theyre being sarcastic. All this shocking stuff is often just the guys trolling. I would argue that I dont think anybody is going to be stupid enough to believe that sanctioned rape is being talked about as an actual suggestion. Sometimes the most ridiculous shit makes me laugh, even though I dont condone it. So if I do laugh at some of this stuff its probably me laughing at something because its fucking stupid.

The psychopaths are the problem, not the incels, he says.

If someone is going to carry out an attack like this theyre gonna have to be severely mentally ill to be capable of that, he says. Making jokes or being active in the incel community doesnt cause it. Being mentally ill does.

But what about when jokes arent just jokes?

I mention how last year when the Nazi website The Daily Stormers guidebook was leaked online, it contained the message: The unindoctrinated should not be able to tell if we are joking or not. So what about when such humor is actually a means of subversive propaganda?

I can see that, Peterson acknowledges. I mean, Ive had guys tell me some really fucked-up shit, and Ive told them, you know, get some help because I dont want you to hurt anyone. But I do think that making dark jokes for people who arent mentally ill helps keep a lot of us from going crazy.

And how exactly does he feel about the disparagement of women in saying that they use men as emotional tampons? Men do the same fucking thing, Peterson says. Thats not a one-sided thing. Men can use women emotionally, too.

And what of the suicide idea?

What it really comes down to is that Id rather these mass shooters and attackers just kill themselves than kill 10 or more innocent people. So maybe if it was easier to commit suicide wed see less of these attacks. Im not condoning suicide but I prefer that to innocent people dying.

On the incels.me forum, a stated list of rules for participation include guidelines that are stricter than most elite private clubs in America.

No women allowed. No exception.

Yes, this means that a forum dedicated to decrying success with women has as one of its primary rules a focus on enforced isolation. Other rules also brutally shut out any chance to provide advice or mentorship to other young men.

A few months ago, when Peterson was using the forum, he suddenly found that he was banned from having certain privileges in the chatrooms. Even the incels, it seemed, were rejecting him.

In response, he filmed and put on his YouTube one of the most astonishing, hyper-granular deconstructions of modern Internet life Ive ever seen.

It is bizarro land for anyone not deep in the world of Internet language.

To create the video, he spent three days nonstop (two days spent up for 24 hours straight in between passing out) to create a meticulous 30-minute PowerPoint video that he filmed objecting to the ban and making his case that he in fact was a genuine incel using a barrage of evidence and minutiae and dictionary definitions and failures of logic to try to break down the bullying he felt he experienced on the forum.

And, if you want to get brutal about the absurdity of the exercise (and the insanity such subcultures can create amongst its members), to prove exactly why he was just as reprehensible to society as the rest of the incels.

It was pretty ridiculous, he says in retrospect. Its like American Vandal, Netflixs mockumentary on super-deep-dive crime docs, except with the heartbreaking element of seeing how brainwashed a young man is into trying to obtain peer approval.

At one point in the video, he even includes a diagnosis that he is paranoid schizophrenic as evidence that he ought to qualify as an incel because of this mental illness. The reality is that after he was given that diagnosis, another psychologist said he was not. Instead, the doctor told him (and is evidenced in the video), he was making himself sick with his own thoughts.

All of this humiliation is laid out for his fellow community of incels to seeand all of it to get back into good standing in the incel community. Thats how bad isolated young men want status and the reassurance of having a community to call their own. Even when the group identity is in how perversely low and entrenched their status really is.

Is it any wonder that these boys need a father figure?

Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson (no relation to Jack) has been known to be moved to tears in interviews when discussing the crisis of alienation he sees amongst young men today and the need to provide them with tools that will reach them.

As he told Tim Lott of The Spectator late last year about his 90 percent male audience, Im telling them something they desperately need to hearthat there are important things that need to be fixed up. Im saying, You guys really need to get your act together and you need to bear some responsibility and grow the hell up. The lack of an identifiable and compelling path forward and the denialism these kids are being fed on a daily basis is undoubtedly destroying them and that is especially true of the young men.

Lott then observes the author of The 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos displaying a level of vulnerability on the subject that is striking.

At this point, to my astonishment, Peterson begins to weep. He talks through his tears for the next several minutes. Every time I talk about this, it breaks me up, he says. The message Ive been delivering is, Find the heaviest weight you can and pick it up. And that will make you strong. Youre not who you could be. And who you could be is worthwhile.

As psychologist William Pollack articulates in the documentary The Mask You Live In about the boy code that warps masculinity from an early age: The way that boys are brought up makes them hide all of their natural, vulnerable, empathic feelings behind a mask of masculinity When theyre most in pain, they cant reach out and ask for help because theyre not allowed to or they wont be a real boy.

In fact, boys express depression in a completely opposite way than girls. They act out. But most people see it as a conduct disorder or just a bad kid.

After the Parkland high school shooting in March, one of the foremost activists in trying to address the crisis of reaching out to troubled young men before they become killers met with President Donald Trump to say his piece. Every single one of these school shootings has been from young men who are disconnected, said Darrell Scott, the father of the first student murdered at Columbine High School almost 20 years ago. In response, he founded Rachels Challenge to intervene with action rather than yet another toothless spectacle of condemnation of the empirically condemnable violence itself.

In a tweet rant posted during this same time by Martin Daubney, the editor of the English lad magazine Loaded, he articulated a similarly jarring portrait of collective angst from young men who feel callously tossed aside and branded as innately wrong, which only serves to compound the sense of victimization even further.

Im mindful of a seminal TEDTalk by Warren Farrell, author of The Boy Crisis, Daubney wrote. He looks at school shootings, and says: Boys who hurt, hurt us…They say todays boys feel part of some grand problem. You could frame it as #ToxicMasculinity: the notion that all males are to blame for the actions of a minority of damaged individuals. This is identity politics at its most destructive. Because we live in a world where every male indiscretion is used to attack all males. Im saying this: many boys are switching off. Were losing them.

How does an incel feel about all of this concernextended within the realm of ideas and intellectualism?

Itd be nice, Jack Peterson says, if he just had someone else to talk to about it.

I like Jordan Peterson a lot, he admits in a tone that sounds more upbeat than the rest of our conversation. I was going to go see him with another incel but that guy ended up not being able to go. But I bought a VIP ticket so I get to meet him next week.

In the wake of the Toronto attack, Peterson is unique in that unlike many in the incel community who have scrubbed their social or taken down their WordPress blogs that chronicled their life, he decided to see what happened when he went on TV to talk about his life in this widely reviled community now most associated with mass murder.

The decision to do so was gutsy. Especially considering the against-the-agenda talking points he is now presenting in condemning misogyny and violence.

The reaction he has received from other incels has been negative. And the public certainly doesnt like anyone who might be an incel.

Its an unwinnable place to be for someone who might still have a chance of climbing out of the twisted, self-fulfilling prophecy gutter that such dangerous places can become for young men who dont think they have anywhere else to go.

But Peterson doesnt regret doing the media and putting his face out there.

Instead, he speaks with an inverse of the perverted sadism of the Toronto attacker. It is a nihilism of potential that is in stark contrast to the nihilism of murderous revenge.

As he describes the decision, you can almost hear an epiphany clicking: When you dont care when you have nothing else to lose, it can be used for good or evil.

I dont know why I said yes to identifying myself as an incel, he says, mulling it over. I just felt like, you know What do I have to lose?

Of course, within the incel community itself, the answer is clear.

He could very well lose his status as an incel.

They called him all the predictable names. He was a cuck. He was a status-seeker. He was an opportunist. He was a number of slurs that are not fit to print. But for an incel, the worst insult he received of all was that he was a fake.

And, this being incel-world, the name he was called was targeted and precise.

You see, for incels, each man within the community self-identifies with how they qualify for their incel status. For instance, mentalcels achieve their status as a result of mental illness. A braincel is that way because of intelligence. A truecel has never had sex, a relationship, any kind of success at all.

Thus Peterson was called a fakecel. No, Peterson says, thats wrong. He definitely still is an incel. He is a part of the group. Where then does he now belong?

Peterson is quiet as he considers the answer.

I think something where I can help people, he says. I like talking about the positive stuff more, even if its frowned upon.

He considers a while longer.

I dont know, he considers, maybe Im a hopecel.

Read more: https://www.thedailybeast.com/sympathy-for-the-incel

from Viral News HQ https://ift.tt/2ruveDU via Viral News HQ

[tellmeyourstory-art-blog]

Amicus

What is the point of friends and relationships?

The questionable studies of Harlow was undoubetdly cruel but elighted an important insight to human affection. Can we live without it? The reason harlow preformed hi experiments on moneky’s was because taking a human in the most natural sociolofical form would be  ‘an infant’ because they are without external influence - TV, parents, toys. 

Harlow took a group of baby monkey from birth and put them in an elaborate set up with 2 mothers, One was a wired mother, who fed and provided milk, the other was cloth who’s only ability was to provide comfort. Thehypothesis was that hough the wire mother was scary and uncomforting the monkey would show love to it because it nourished them and gave them a means to survive. Proving that human love was based off of need. but surprising Harlow was wrong. The monkeys utilised both mothers equally, further proving comfort and affectio was something needed in the psche for love and survival. 

to want to belong somewhere, to find comfort. Today we do so by first finding it in family, and then as adults in categories, it’s how we met like minded people.

Groups, set aorund drinking culture, fitness or art. Still fear change just as the Neanderthals did, maybe theire categories  it was the hunters and gathers any anything new was scary, rejected and destroyed as it posed a threat to a specific way of life. For example how your fat friends relish and secretly don’t want you get fit or how the friends who drink a lot don’t want you to stop drinking. 

  but today, it’s divided by mroe and more categories.  When we wee young we dealt with a small kind of exclusion boy against girls, when we are older it’s the Introverts and Extroverts, who liek this magazine, or this celebrity and we form gorups and within those groups cultures, when really why do the categories matter at all. We are all humn and at the heart of it little animals trying to feel out places to fit in somewhere. 

I didn’t really feel like i belonged on anywhere, in my family or in friend groups. I was outcasted though I didnt realise until I was 13. In high school a rumor would go around about me that I was a lesbian on the first day of high school casting me as ‘dont play with’ Sometimes I wonder if it was my sister who intially spread the rumor since she was always at a competition with me for attention, I never felt it. She once turned to me and said ‘you know how were always pitted against eachother’ and I never knew what she meant.

She once bribed me in the bathroom as young kids with a $2 coin to stop pulling a face that would grab my moms attention and make her laugh for a secod, for my sister attention is what gave her validation, and to stop me from getting it away from her.

And above that I was weird. And people didn’tlike me. My didn’t so why would i believe or act in away that anyone else did. A very self pittying view but at the time it was true none the less. Having friends was extremelydifficult for me because of my mom too. When I  had finally made a friend group one of them asked ‘my parents saifd your mom was a mistress’ i had no idea what that meant so i asked my mom who lost it at me

WHO SAID THAT she blarred, eventully getting the number out of me and absuing my friends parents.

Eventually even my sister friends werent allowed at our house because theyw ould leave crying. 

gossip started, but still no one stepped in or did anything. 

Friendships can seem mysteious, we talk about clicking, but there there is something at the heart of friendships that seems important to identify, vulnerability. it’s easy to assume what makes us likeable is who we are on the outside, good looks, nice car or public acclaim, strengths accoplisment and things we are porud of.. this impresses but it isnt what draws others to us.. the more we get to know someon we are able to depart from the official story  and start to reveal awkward truths.

unfortunately this can work in 2 ways, with overwhelming support and positivity for our positive traits and negative. Friends, can be a great healthy support and fulfill our very sociological need to belong somewhere. Friends can also be a great support for validating unhealthy values too.

My mother was still able to find a group of friends who validated their own alcohol addiction ad sadness together and becam a stronger support for denial rather than lifting eachother up. 

I’d always dread coming home from school and smelling the cigarette smoke and drunken laighter from the varrander. Mid day drunken senssions of sad people pissing their years away. My mom blamed my sister and I had no problme telling us that or her friend who believed her.

One weekend away I had come home from a sleepover and found one of these friends cleaning out my moms house. I had been gone the entire weekend and she had supposedly trashed eevrything. Her friend was shaking her head and calling me a digusting pig as my mom had told them I had done it. I tried to explain id been away how could I have done it, but being a child in the eyes of ‘adults’ they didnt believe and continued on the lies to keep inhibiting their digusting problems.

Soon my mom would have sex uncaring if anyone was around. On top of my christmas presents, as i cried from the top of the stairs, her fleeting relationship with a man who was just a pathetic and lonely theyd smoke weed and scream loudly un caring there was children in the house, that it was the middle of the day and how truly disturbing a child leanring about sex is by listening to unhibited parent not caring about boundaries.. only their own desires.

Soon there was naked people everywhere, cigarette smoke vodka stained carpets and a deeper denial floating around everyone who gravitated that disgusting house. Her besy friend soon became her lesbian lover would drink with her ll night laughing about how shit life was. She’d call me after my mom died and continue, she’d tell me how she removed my moms tampon and other disgusting detils of their love life i had no need to know. But she needed someoone to vent to, and someone to understand. Anyone. And that desperatess left to an unhinged release of lines being crossed, when anyone would think a responible adult should be incontrol of where they are drawn. 

None of them truly understanding how daming that is for a young girl in her formative years. Had it been openly talked about maybe it would have been differnt, but it was always loud voices behind a locked door. 

I’d learn how to pick locks becauseof this.. or be louder. I’d bury myself into my guitar and sing sond of her being sober outside her bedroom door all in a failed attempt to get throgh. to someone. 

It was agonsiing screaming for help on the floor with no one to hear me. I still feel so much pain playing guitar out of fear the songs I did play were unimportsant, unlistened to and didnt help anyone. 

We live together, we act on, and react to, one another; but always and in all circumstances we are by ourselves. The terminally ill person maybe pittied and empthaised with and by family and friends but only he who is truly sick can know what it is like to suffer that fate.

The lovers deserprately try to fuse with eachother in hopes of creating a destiny in a sing self transdence but do so in vain as they inevitbly die alone. Only you can experience what you are experiencing, and it is th efate of every soul to suffer in solitude.

I retracted inwards, more and had the self realisation it was Ok to be alone and feel lonely,t hat really. All I had was me in this wrold to rely on, and that was ok, which shaped my beliefs today on being lonely.

 I like the feeling. I believe being lonely can be a choice & isn’t sad at all. Many people have mixed judgements about this, some will think I am shy, others insecure.. but I am a deeply confident person these days,  I've struggled with myself, and, at the same time I often wondered -- s there something wrong with me for not forming {meaningful || intermittent} attachments?"

 For me it's come down to the fact that I'm about growth and progress and moving forward. Since I've been young, I've never really felt any particular attachment to any one thing in particular. Such as, the typical hometown-hoedown; or taking-up supporting a local team with fervor or passion. Same goes with my relationships friends or more than friends. 

It's taken a while, but I'm comfortable with this for the most part. I don't want to be stuck in any one mindset or frame of mind, nor do I want to placate or pacify myself into being stagnant. "Oh this is just okay since it's what everyone else does." It seems in 2017 It's still looked down upon to be 'alone', as if there is something wrong with you. And although I believe having social skills to carry yourself in a large groups is important, it's not the same thing. Reminds me of a Cranberries song: "Everybody else is doing it, so why don't we."is simple: "What's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular." -- Do I want to be a follower, or have my own mind? Am I myself, or am I someone else? To make friends - good ones, you truly do have to enjoy your own company in order to provide the vulnerabilty of true friendship, our hidden truths and obscrities.

 I (personally) abhor parrots -- hearing the same thing over and over again from people who don't like answering pertinent questions which would impinge parrot logic (ignore that which is inconvenient is used too often by too many people, IMO). Make sense? (I see nothing wrong with this -- though it might feel wrong compared to the typical or average social perspective)-- there's really nothing wrong with it tp  fill the sociological need to belong grow with self value & respect first, you can accept the right people and let them come and go throughout all phases of it.  I fall inlove with people who aren’t afraid to say no to me, I fall in love with my friends who help me learn. 

[trendingnewsb]

Sympathy for the Incel

If you want to know why young men are broken, ask them.

There is a cultural crisis emboldening the misogyny and violence of the little-known incel movement (an abbreviation for the self-professed involuntary celibate community of men) and which has now been tied to three mass murders: Elliot Rodger, Chris Harper-Mercer and, this week, the alleged Toronto killer Alek Minassian, who is accused of killing 10 and injuring 15 people in one of the most horrific acts of mass violence in Canada in years.

One after another, media outlets are seeking to understand how this could happen while raising the question of how we got here. The Internet is enabling a community of men who want to kill women, read the headline in The Verge. Can the radicalization of incels be stopped? asked the Globe and Mail. But one headline stood out, from The National Post: What should we do about the incels? Maybe help them. Shouting about what horrible women-hating losers they are (which they may be) is not going to prevent one of them from murdering again.

This, in particular, is the question Im concerned with, and why I am attempting to find whatever empathy or compassion might be possible for the disconnected young men flocking to the movement and who might be at a crossroads. One young man stood out in the countless hours I spent listening to podcasts, videos and chat room conversations within the incel community which I have been following for months now: 19-year-old Jack Peterson, a socially awkward Chicagoan who after hours of interviews agreed to reveal his real identity for the first time to The Daily Beast.

To be clear, Peterson initially did not want to do any media regarding the group, particularly a profile on what the makings of an incel look like, but after considering my appeal that perhaps others might want to reach out if they could have a better understanding, he agreed.

Born Kalerthon Demetro in the suburbs of Chicago, Peterson (his mothers last name) is a high school dropout who lives with his single mother and whose father left when he was two years old. Peripherally involved in the online incel community for years, Petersons first reaction to the Toronto horror was to record a podcast specifically condemning violence and misogyny and underscoring that for the majority of participants, this is not their reality. For him and many like him, he says, the incel community is a means of supporting one another in a world when it sometimes feels like there is no one else.

To listen to the teenager speak, he does not seem psychopathic. He does not seem like he endorses psychopathy. On the contrary, he seems shy and awkward and lonely and angry. He laughs when other incels make dark jokes about killers, but he does not make them himself. He gets it. They are blowing off steam.

Being an incel is not about violence or misogyny, repeats Peterson, who is the only incel who has been on television doing interviews in recent days since the alleged Toronto killer pointed a finger at the incel movement in a cryptic post on Facebook confirmed earlier this week. Yes, for some guys it is, but not for me. Not for many of us.

The challenge in covering the incel movement is that in many cases the cherry-picked and sensationalist coverage reinforces these mens persecution complexes and drives them further into a pit of rage-fueled nihilism. Attempting to find any kind of compassion is in no way to excuse or normalize the deranged among them. On the other hand, it is to see what options we have left in reaching them at all.

In the groundbreaking book Change or Die, author Alan Deutschman writes, [The sense of self is threatened by any major change in the deep-rooted patterns of how we think, feel, and act, even a tremendously positive change such as leaving behind a life of crime and addiction. A change in progress demands new explanations for a past thats now cast in a darker light.

Essentially, reaching someone entrenched within a near-fanatical belief system is often impossible because the ego will put up a fight to the death in order to not deal with the psychic pain of feeling that everything that has been done up until this point has been done wrong. But it is possible.

In Deutschmans book, spanning extensive research on changing past negative behavior to future positive actions, one case study of a parole officer illuminates how he found the most success in reaching the seemingly unreachable. By realizing that the real reason why people dont change is demoralizationthe overwhelming sense of hopelessness and power he applied the theory that the most he could do is to inspire a new sense of hope and power. Indeed, this officer invited 14 of the most argumentative ex-convicts and spent 90-minute sessions listening to them rather than telling them what to do. The response was extraordinary. The parole officer recounted: In one and a half hours they calmed down. They said, These guys arent against us. Now they come back every week and say, At least Im being listened to. In the last year the difference has been huge. They want to make a change.

In speaking to Peterson on the phone, while a journalist is about as a far away from a parole officer as you can get, its amazing the difference that occurs when I listen to what he has to say about the reality of incel culture versus how he sees the media portraying its members.

In his view, as despicable and morally unfathomable as the psychopathic fringe is, the reality of the wider membership estimated in the tens of thousands of active members is far more complex.

The way Peterson tells itand as is supported by his digital footprint of videos, podcasts and commentsfor him and many others, to be an incel is to seek the camaraderie of a group of male peers who provide an outlet where, for once, they can honestly talk about the increasing fragmentation, disconnection, alienation and ostracization they feel in an always-online world in which, as far as they can see, they are not welcome or wanted.

Peterson compared the mischaracterization of incels to the xenophobic broad brush that takes a minority of radicalized Islamic suicide-bombers and uses it to condemn the vast majority of Muslims. Instead, he said, there is an acceptance that there is a vile minority who distorts the vision of the communitybut that it is not his vision for the group.

Like many in the incel community, Peterson essentially grew up without a strong father figure.

His mother kicked his father out because, in Petersons words, he used to beat the shit out of my mother and she got a restraining order. His father was the same age that he is now when he got his 39-year-old mother pregnant, and hes never met him, but they have spoken on the phone a few times.

I dont really have any feelings about him, Peterson says. He just kind of is.

From an early age, Peterson felt a level of social anxiety that was bearable but distinct. His kindergarten teacher asked him why he did not play with the others. He said, I dont know how.

Things started to change around the third or fourth grade. It was the first time the girls started making fun of him, he says, saying he was creepy and gross and weird.

I didnt understand it, he says. I was told either to act like a man or that girls could do no wrong. And yet I was constantly told that men were the cruel, bad ones. None of it made any sense to me. I was just extremely shy. I didnt talk to them, but the teasing was relentless and made me want to kill myself.

In the seventh grade, Peterson transferred to three different middle schools all in one year as the bullying followed him everywhere. By the time he reached high school, he says, one young woman started taking photos of him and sharing them with other girls who openly laughed in his face about how ugly he was and why they did not want him near them. He did not finish his freshman year at the Chicago Academy for the Arts, but dropped out after the first semester. His mother never knew the extent of the bullying he experienced.

I was just ashamed, he says. How do you talk about that?

The profoundly formative pain of youthful bullying has been around forever. When a classmate taunts you and proclaims your worthlessness to all your peers, if you are a kid, the humiliation of such an experience doesnt feel like its happening in a classroomit can feel like a worldwide-televised death sentence.

Very few kids on the receiving end of the cruelty know how to deal with itbecause of a lack of life experience that is just as undeveloped as their pubescent brains.

But for a kid growing up today, the tool of the Internet levels the game. No longer do you wonder, Will anyone ever love me? Now you can Google it, and find secret places and communities and bodies of knowledge that your parents dont even know exist. This can be exciting, emboldening, a total game-changer.

I remember the first time I found a site that even mentioned the word incel, I was like, Woah, these guys are outcasts, too, he says. I kind of felt like, maybe Im not alone.

At the age of 11, Peterson visited 4chan for the first time, and he saw his rage and loneliness expressed as well as the impotence of such advice as just get over it. He didnt know how to. He didnt have anyone to ask. He just didnt want any more ridicule.

It was kind of crazy to see and read a lot of the stuff I did, Peterson says. But it was also the only place where other guys talked about some of the things I was experiencing. Feeling so alone and rejected by the people around you. I was extremely shy then, and still kind of am, but it makes you feel really fucked up to be told youre a creepy loser by a pretty popular girl when youre just sitting there, saying nothing, doing nothing, wishing you were invisible but instead being the quiet freak with the cystic acne all over his face.

He also received an indoctrination into the culture of these young men who accepted him and what they found acceptableand what he would need to as well if he were to finally fit in somewhere.

To understand the increasingly irony-rich language of the users, its essential to read Angela Nagles book Kill All Normies, which exquisitely captures the critical shift in online perspective and the death of what remained of a mass culture sensibility that happened at exactly the same time Peterson began actively engaging with it.

In her brilliant book documenting the culture wars of the extreme left and the extreme right in recent years, focusing on subcultures including 4chan and incels, Nagle describes the attitude rebellion on the site against the sentimentality and absurd priorities of Western liberal performative politics and the online mass hysteria that often characterized it.

Peterson is one of the best representations of exactly how these culture wars are shaping our young mens identities.

When everything is ironic, nothing is. So they mock it. All of it.

Theres this big hypocrisy in the fact that so many people who say they are all about human rights and empowerment think its actually funny when boys get mocked, he says. I never said a single misogynistic thing growing up. And I was punished. Just because I was weird. I couldnt help it. I honestly wanted to die.

On the contrary, the incel communities he found online seemed different.

When I dropped out of high school, the one place I felt okay about stuff for a little while was when I was online, Peterson tells me. By the time I discovered the incel culture on Reddit, it felt like, Okay, Im not insane. I was reading all these other guys stories about how girls told them they were repulsive. I never identified with the misogyny, but I did identify with the rage at the hypocrisy of just how untouchable women were in society. No matter what, no matter what awful thing a woman did, it was always supposed to be like, Oh yeah, thats female empowerment. But when you have no friends and are getting bullied and humiliated by women constantly and are told to both man up and renounce your masculinity its like the one bright light you see is this community.

By the time he was 16, Peterson finally met in person a young womanfour years older than himwith whom he had been chatting online since he was 12 years old. She did not know what he looked like for some time, and when he finally shared his picture, she told him that she didnt find him attractive. He lost his virginity to her, after which he says she ridiculed his penis size and laughed at him. Later, she sent him copies of messages that she had sent on to other men she was cheating on him with where she explicitly described the sex acts she wanted done to her. (Ive seen corroborating evidence of all of this.)

I was literally cucked, Peterson says. That word doesnt have any meaning anymore, but thats what I was. I still wanted to see her though. She was the only girl who had ever expressed interest in me, even though she tore me down and told me how ugly I was. It was still better than nothing.

According to Peterson, the relationship finally disintegrated when she began choking him and tried to go after him in her car. He ran to a nearby store to get help, and has the actual footage of the security cam showing him flailing against the glass window. The police came, and to cover for the girl, he said that he was suicidal. He spent three days in a mental institution because of it.

This was a turning point for Peterson.

He finally aligned himself fully as an incel. He was, in the words of Internet argot, black-pilled.

Anyone who has dabbled in understanding Internet lingo is likely familiar with the term red-pilled (inspired by the film The Matrix, where Neo is offered a blue pill where everything stays status quo or a red pill where the ugly truth is supposedly exposed). Adopted by mens rights activists around 2004, to get red-pilled is to subscribe to the particular ideology that feminism is a cancer and men are the real victims. But what does it mean to get black-pilled, as many refer to this communitys belief system? It sounds as bleak as it is.

Essentially, the philosophy is that everything is broken and the answer lies in refusing to engage in a meaningful or constructive way with society. (The phrase black pill first appeared in 2012 on a blog called Omega Virgin Revolt.) A critical part of being black-pilled is recognizing, with zero sentimentality or euphemism or explaining away, that women do not like genetically inferior men. They now have infinite options in the form of men who are higher status (be it, economic, physical, or intellectual) because of the breakdown in societal monogamy and now high-status men can game apps and use hypergamy (or dating up) to their advantage. (Meaning, a less attractive woman will nowadays reject a less attractive male if she is suddenly able to have meaningless sex with a high status man, who can juggle multiple women. This leaves men who are not as good-looking in the dust.)

Incels theorize that once you are black-pilled, you are finally given the gift of brutally honest Darwinian truth that, essentially, the game is rigged, so why bother? With such entrenchment in the truth of the doctrine comes freedom. No longer do you have to run around in circles. You can accept the world for what it is and settle back into your status on the lower rungs.

If you are red-pilled, you might take this theory of female behavior to use it in manipulative pick-up strategies to try to game women into thinking you are higher status or to find the weakest prey.

If you are an incel and have never had a single successful romantic attempt or only disastrous ones, this type of theorizing provides that wonderful feeling of certainty that comes with confirmation bias and the emancipation from regret of knowing that nothing could have been done anyway. Which is why many incels describe being black-pilled as an awakening from humiliation. Like finally realizing that you have been the subject of a joke that everyone else has been in on the whole time.

For a young man like Peterson, spouting such beliefs, he seems not so much a product of toxic masculinity as a failure of masculinity itself.

No one is teaching these men how to be men. This doesnt mean men in the sense of mens rights activists, but a healthy, balanced (not extremist) definition which includes someone who treats women well but also treats himself well by not being afraid to think for himself with opinions that deviate from the loudest, most hateful elements in the community.

But isnt the worst parts of the incel community hate speech? And shouldnt such hate speech be eradicated?

In Nadine Strossens timely new book Hate, she makes the case for countering bad speech with more speech, and illustrates how in countries where hate speech speech laws have been enacted, support for racist and xenophobic politicians has risen. In Europe, hate speech laws have in fact been used as a means of stifling dissent amongst the disenfranchised.

Equal justice for all depends on full freedom of speech for all, she writes.

Not only that, but as Keith Whittington argues in his new book Speak Freely, offensive speech is crucial to safeguard because of its utility in generating, testing, and communicating ideas.

One of the most brilliant defenses of the subject is Jonathan Rauchs 2013 essay, The Case for Hate Speech in The Atlantic, where he thanks the loudest and most noxious voices he faced along the way in his fight for gay marriage. [W]e won in the realm of ideas, he writes. And our antagonists–people who spouted speech we believed was deeply offensive, from Anita Bryant to Jerry Falwell to, yes, Orson Scott Card–helped us win.

For the incel community, of course, many of the ideas espoused are in defense of their identity as the losers of society, which frees them of the need to take personal responsibility.

I think thats a valid criticism, Peterson says. I get sick of the guys who seem like they just want to keep others down no matter what. Its almost like you are scorned when you experience a little bit of success.

The podcast Peterson recorded after the Toronto attack represents the incel community as not seeming as extreme as a cursory visit to the incel-tracking site We Hunted the Mammoth or the incel-mocking community Incel Tears might lead you to believe. On these sites, in the communitys most chilling screengrabs, posts include suggestions that in order to truly terrorize the women who have rejected incels over the years, perhaps mass acid attacks and rapes could be coordinated in order to inflict the same damage upon women that these young men feel has happened to them.

In contrast, Petersons podcast discussion contains an unusual degree of literacy about sociological phenomena, including the Japanese trend of hikikomori, or isolationism and utter retreat occurring with young men, which many incels predict will spread around the world in due time.

But at its core, it is still a conversation littered with misogyny and resentment.

At one point, someone says that women use men like emotional tampons. Another brings up the possibility of mandated girlfriends (or state-sanctioned rape, as shown on the new season of The Handmaids Tale). A joke is made that the best-case scenario is when incels go ER (or Elliot Rodger). There is discussion about the evolutionary benefits of sexual violence, which harkens Rodgers infamously deranged advocacy of a program where men could kill all women because if women were able to choose their own mates, their inferior brains would devolve humanity completely. Someone laughs about the idea of blackmailing women into having sex with them by threatening to post nude photos online. Peterson himself brings up the idea of access to assisted suicide for incels to prevent future attacks, and he suggests that talking to those who wonder about incel culture might help with improving our image, especially if you attach a face to the incel phenomenon, I think that that makes it more sympathetic.

Peterson clarifies to me: He was not suggesting it be him.

I meant someone else, but then it turned out, I guess I was the only person dumb enough to show my face in videos I made online, he says. So here we are.

When I ask him about the references in the podcast to Rodger, he responds, That guy was fucking nuts. I dont really joke about going ER, but I dont tell the guys who make those jokes not to do it because I know theyre being sarcastic. All this shocking stuff is often just the guys trolling. I would argue that I dont think anybody is going to be stupid enough to believe that sanctioned rape is being talked about as an actual suggestion. Sometimes the most ridiculous shit makes me laugh, even though I dont condone it. So if I do laugh at some of this stuff its probably me laughing at something because its fucking stupid.

The psychopaths are the problem, not the incels, he says.

If someone is going to carry out an attack like this theyre gonna have to be severely mentally ill to be capable of that, he says. Making jokes or being active in the incel community doesnt cause it. Being mentally ill does.

But what about when jokes arent just jokes?

I mention how last year when the Nazi website The Daily Stormers guidebook was leaked online, it contained the message: The unindoctrinated should not be able to tell if we are joking or not. So what about when such humor is actually a means of subversive propaganda?

I can see that, Peterson acknowledges. I mean, Ive had guys tell me some really fucked-up shit, and Ive told them, you know, get some help because I dont want you to hurt anyone. But I do think that making dark jokes for people who arent mentally ill helps keep a lot of us from going crazy.

And how exactly does he feel about the disparagement of women in saying that they use men as emotional tampons? Men do the same fucking thing, Peterson says. Thats not a one-sided thing. Men can use women emotionally, too.

And what of the suicide idea?

What it really comes down to is that Id rather these mass shooters and attackers just kill themselves than kill 10 or more innocent people. So maybe if it was easier to commit suicide wed see less of these attacks. Im not condoning suicide but I prefer that to innocent people dying.

On the incels.me forum, a stated list of rules for participation include guidelines that are stricter than most elite private clubs in America.

No women allowed. No exception.

Yes, this means that a forum dedicated to decrying success with women has as one of its primary rules a focus on enforced isolation. Other rules also brutally shut out any chance to provide advice or mentorship to other young men.

A few months ago, when Peterson was using the forum, he suddenly found that he was banned from having certain privileges in the chatrooms. Even the incels, it seemed, were rejecting him.

In response, he filmed and put on his YouTube one of the most astonishing, hyper-granular deconstructions of modern Internet life Ive ever seen.

It is bizarro land for anyone not deep in the world of Internet language.

To create the video, he spent three days nonstop (two days spent up for 24 hours straight in between passing out) to create a meticulous 30-minute PowerPoint video that he filmed objecting to the ban and making his case that he in fact was a genuine incel using a barrage of evidence and minutiae and dictionary definitions and failures of logic to try to break down the bullying he felt he experienced on the forum.

And, if you want to get brutal about the absurdity of the exercise (and the insanity such subcultures can create amongst its members), to prove exactly why he was just as reprehensible to society as the rest of the incels.

It was pretty ridiculous, he says in retrospect. Its like American Vandal, Netflixs mockumentary on super-deep-dive crime docs, except with the heartbreaking element of seeing how brainwashed a young man is into trying to obtain peer approval.

At one point in the video, he even includes a diagnosis that he is paranoid schizophrenic as evidence that he ought to qualify as an incel because of this mental illness. The reality is that after he was given that diagnosis, another psychologist said he was not. Instead, the doctor told him (and is evidenced in the video), he was making himself sick with his own thoughts.

All of this humiliation is laid out for his fellow community of incels to seeand all of it to get back into good standing in the incel community. Thats how bad isolated young men want status and the reassurance of having a community to call their own. Even when the group identity is in how perversely low and entrenched their status really is.

Is it any wonder that these boys need a father figure?

Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson (no relation to Jack) has been known to be moved to tears in interviews when discussing the crisis of alienation he sees amongst young men today and the need to provide them with tools that will reach them.

As he told Tim Lott of The Spectator late last year about his 90 percent male audience, Im telling them something they desperately need to hearthat there are important things that need to be fixed up. Im saying, You guys really need to get your act together and you need to bear some responsibility and grow the hell up. The lack of an identifiable and compelling path forward and the denialism these kids are being fed on a daily basis is undoubtedly destroying them and that is especially true of the young men.

Lott then observes the author of The 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos displaying a level of vulnerability on the subject that is striking.

At this point, to my astonishment, Peterson begins to weep. He talks through his tears for the next several minutes. Every time I talk about this, it breaks me up, he says. The message Ive been delivering is, Find the heaviest weight you can and pick it up. And that will make you strong. Youre not who you could be. And who you could be is worthwhile.

As psychologist William Pollack articulates in the documentary The Mask You Live In about the boy code that warps masculinity from an early age: The way that boys are brought up makes them hide all of their natural, vulnerable, empathic feelings behind a mask of masculinity When theyre most in pain, they cant reach out and ask for help because theyre not allowed to or they wont be a real boy.

In fact, boys express depression in a completely opposite way than girls. They act out. But most people see it as a conduct disorder or just a bad kid.

After the Parkland high school shooting in March, one of the foremost activists in trying to address the crisis of reaching out to troubled young men before they become killers met with President Donald Trump to say his piece. Every single one of these school shootings has been from young men who are disconnected, said Darrell Scott, the father of the first student murdered at Columbine High School almost 20 years ago. In response, he founded Rachels Challenge to intervene with action rather than yet another toothless spectacle of condemnation of the empirically condemnable violence itself.

In a tweet rant posted during this same time by Martin Daubney, the editor of the English lad magazine Loaded, he articulated a similarly jarring portrait of collective angst from young men who feel callously tossed aside and branded as innately wrong, which only serves to compound the sense of victimization even further.

Im mindful of a seminal TEDTalk by Warren Farrell, author of The Boy Crisis, Daubney wrote. He looks at school shootings, and says: Boys who hurt, hurt us…They say todays boys feel part of some grand problem. You could frame it as #ToxicMasculinity: the notion that all males are to blame for the actions of a minority of damaged individuals. This is identity politics at its most destructive. Because we live in a world where every male indiscretion is used to attack all males. Im saying this: many boys are switching off. Were losing them.

How does an incel feel about all of this concernextended within the realm of ideas and intellectualism?

Itd be nice, Jack Peterson says, if he just had someone else to talk to about it.

I like Jordan Peterson a lot, he admits in a tone that sounds more upbeat than the rest of our conversation. I was going to go see him with another incel but that guy ended up not being able to go. But I bought a VIP ticket so I get to meet him next week.

In the wake of the Toronto attack, Peterson is unique in that unlike many in the incel community who have scrubbed their social or taken down their WordPress blogs that chronicled their life, he decided to see what happened when he went on TV to talk about his life in this widely reviled community now most associated with mass murder.

The decision to do so was gutsy. Especially considering the against-the-agenda talking points he is now presenting in condemning misogyny and violence.

The reaction he has received from other incels has been negative. And the public certainly doesnt like anyone who might be an incel.

Its an unwinnable place to be for someone who might still have a chance of climbing out of the twisted, self-fulfilling prophecy gutter that such dangerous places can become for young men who dont think they have anywhere else to go.

But Peterson doesnt regret doing the media and putting his face out there.

Instead, he speaks with an inverse of the perverted sadism of the Toronto attacker. It is a nihilism of potential that is in stark contrast to the nihilism of murderous revenge.

As he describes the decision, you can almost hear an epiphany clicking: When you dont care when you have nothing else to lose, it can be used for good or evil.

I dont know why I said yes to identifying myself as an incel, he says, mulling it over. I just felt like, you know What do I have to lose?

Of course, within the incel community itself, the answer is clear.

He could very well lose his status as an incel.

They called him all the predictable names. He was a cuck. He was a status-seeker. He was an opportunist. He was a number of slurs that are not fit to print. But for an incel, the worst insult he received of all was that he was a fake.

And, this being incel-world, the name he was called was targeted and precise.

You see, for incels, each man within the community self-identifies with how they qualify for their incel status. For instance, mentalcels achieve their status as a result of mental illness. A braincel is that way because of intelligence. A truecel has never had sex, a relationship, any kind of success at all.

Thus Peterson was called a fakecel. No, Peterson says, thats wrong. He definitely still is an incel. He is a part of the group. Where then does he now belong?

Peterson is quiet as he considers the answer.

I think something where I can help people, he says. I like talking about the positive stuff more, even if its frowned upon.

He considers a while longer.

I dont know, he considers, maybe Im a hopecel.

Read more: https://www.thedailybeast.com/sympathy-for-the-incel

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