#zombie aeneas REAL

[catilinas]

breaking news the sea is performing homeric burial rites

[lesbiaeneas]

my confession is that the funeral games in aeneid V bore me deeply HOWEVER. i think about. the fact that in the iliad, the funeral games are ostensibly for patroclus but really just as much a funeral for achilles, even though he hasn’t died yet, because it’s his wealth and heroism being celebrated/mourned too and patroclus and achilles are body doubles in more ways than one. and i wonder if the fact that the aeneid funeral games seem inspired by the iliad’s mean that same is at all true here. this is anchises’ funeral, yeah, but is it aeneas’s funeral too?

[p-clodius-pulcher]

I had a very specific other image in my mind but I couldn’t find it. Maybe I made it up

[breitzbachbea]

wait if I uploaded the divoti drabble to ao3, would I have to tag it major character death. dumb question, but is turning into a ghost dying when you technically already died when you were living.

[aeneiddaily]

hey guys (zombie aeneas real) this one is short and also super normal (aeneas died and came back different) there are no warning signs at all (this is not my beautiful house this is not my beautiful wife)

[tacfarinas]

zombie aeneas real

[vintage1der]

What separates these works from the Harry Potter fanfiction you find online may come down to snobbery. There is an undercurrent of misogyny in mainstream criticism of fanfiction, which is widely accepted to be dominated by women; one census of 10,500 AO3 users found that 80% of the users identified as female, with more users identified as genderqueer (6%) than male (4%). Novik has spent a good deal of time fighting against fanfiction’s stigma because she feels it is “an attack on women’s writing, specifically an attack on young women’s writing and the kind of stories that young women like to tell”. Which is not to say that young women only want to write about romance: “I think,” Novik says, “that [the popularity of fanfiction amongst women is] not unconnected to the lack of young women protagonists who are not romantic interests.” Devotees of fanfiction will sometimes tell you that it’s one of the oldest writing forms in the world. Seen with this generous eye, the art of writing stories using other people’s creations hails from long before our awareness of Twilight-fanfic-turned-BDSM romance Fifty Shades of Grey: perhaps Virgil, when he picked up where Homer left off with the story of Aeneas, or Shakespeare’s retelling of Arthur Brookes’s 1562 The Tragical History of Romeus and Juliet. What most of us would recognise as fanfiction began in the 1960s, when Star Trek fans started creating zines about Spock and Captain Kirk’s adventures. Thirty years later, the internet arrived, which made sharing stories set in other people’s worlds – be they Harry Potter, Spider-Man, or anything and everything in between – easier. Fanfiction has always been out there, if you knew where to look. Now, it’s almost impossible to miss.

In the last few years, fanfiction has enjoyed something of a rebrand. Big-name authors such as EL James, author of the Fifty Shades books, and Cassandra Clare, who has always been open about writing Harry Potter fanfiction before her bestselling Mortal Instruments series, have helped bring it into the mainstream. These days, it’s fairly common knowledge that some people just really like writing about Captain America and Bucky Barnes falling in love, or Doctor Who fighting demons with Buffy. The general image of fanfiction has brightened somewhat: less creepy, more sweetly nerdy.

But the divide between fanfiction and original writing holds strong. It’s assumed that if people write fanfiction, it’s because they can’t produce their own. At best, it functions as training wheels, preparing a writer to commit to a real book. When they don’t – as in the famous case of Fifty Shades, which one plagiarism checker found had an 89% similarity rate with James’s original Twilight fanfiction – they are ridiculed. A real author, the logic goes, having moved on to writing their own books, doesn’t look back.

“Here’s the thing,” Naomi Novik explains over the phone from New York. She is the bestselling author of the Temeraire books, a fantasy series that adds dragons to the Napoleonic Wars, and Spinning Silver, which riffs on Rumpelstiltskin. “I don’t actually draw any line between my fanfiction work and my professional work – except that I only write the fanfiction stuff for love.”

In between writing her novels – or indeed during, as she admits that fanfiction is one of her favourite procrastination techniques – Novik is an active member of the fanfiction community. She is a co-founder of the Archive of Our Own (AO3), one of the most popular hosting websites, and a prolific writer in the universes of Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, Merlin and many more.

And she’s not the only professional at work. Rainbow Rowell, the bestselling author of Eleanor and Park and other novels, once told the Bookseller that between two novels, she wrote a 30,000-word Harry Potter fanfiction. “It’s Harry and Draco as a couple who have been married for many years, and they’re raising Harry’s kids,” she said. “It’s them dealing with attachment parenting and step-parents and all these middle-aged issues.”

The divide between a fanfiction writer and an original fiction writer can look very arbitrary when looking at authors such as Michael Chabon, who once described his own novel Moonglow as “a Gravity’s Rainbow fanfic”. Or Madeline Miller, whose Orange-prize winning The Song of Achilles detailed the romantic relationship between Achilles and Patroclus, and whose latest novel Circe picks up on the witch who seduces Odysseus in the Odyssey. Miller said she was initially worried when one ex-boyfriend described her work as “Homeric fanfiction” but has since embraced her love of adapting and playing with Greek mythology. The tag could also be applied to classics such as Jean Rhys’s Wide Sargasso Sea, reworkings of Shakespeare by the likes of Margaret Atwood and Edward St Aubyn in the Hogarth series, and a spate of parodies: Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, or Android Karenina.

What separates these works from the Harry Potter fanfiction you find online may come down to snobbery. There is an undercurrent of misogyny in mainstream criticism of fanfiction, which is widely accepted to be dominated by women; one census of 10,500 AO3 users found that 80% of the users identified as female, with more users identified as genderqueer (6%) than male (4%). Novik has spent a good deal of time fighting against fanfiction’s stigma because she feels it is “an attack on women’s writing, specifically an attack on young women’s writing and the kind of stories that young women like to tell”. Which is not to say that young women only want to write about romance: “I think,” Novik says, “that [the popularity of fanfiction amongst women is] not unconnected to the lack of young women protagonists who are not romantic interests.”

Others may find it odd that published authors would bother writing fanfiction alongside or between their professional work. But it’s all too simple to draw lines between two forms of writing that, in their separate ways, can be both productive and joyful. Neil Gaiman once wrote that the most important question an author can ask is: “What if?” Fanfiction takes this to the next level. What if King Arthur was gay? What if Voldemort won? What if Ned Stark escaped?

“I believe that all art, if it’s any good, is in dialogue with other art,” Novik says. “Fanfiction feels to me like a more intimate conversation. It’s a conversation where you need the reader to really have a lot of detail at their fingertips.”

For writers still wobbling on training wheels, fanfiction offers benefits: the immediate gratification of sharing writing without navigating publishers; passionate readers who are already interested in the characters, and a collegial stream of feedback from fellow writers.

“There was an audience of people who wanted to read my writing,” says young adult author Sarah Rees Brennan, who wrote Harry Potter fanfiction in her teens and twenties before she published her own novels, the latest of which, In Other Lands, was a Hugo award finalist. “Here were all these people online who wanted stories about familiar characters. Audiences were pre-invested and waiting.”

For writers, whether already published or on the path to being published, this instantaneous readership functions as a writer’s workshop: Novik calls it a “community of your peers”. Spending hours thrashing out the details of Draco Malfoy’s inner life can’t help but function as a crash course in character motivation. And the limits and constraints of working within a pre-existing world, with its own characters and settings, is a unique challenge.

“Fanfiction is a great incubator for writers,” Novik says. “The more constraints you have on you at the beginning, the better. It’s why people do writing exercises, or play scales. That kind of constraint forces you to practice certain skills, and then at a certain point you have the control to bring out the whole toolbox.”

Once some writers get those tools, they never look back. Rees Brennan no longer writes fanfiction. “I had a friend say it’s like the difference between babysitting kids and having children of your own,” she says. “With a world you built yourself, and characters you built, there’s this sense of deep, overwhelming love.”

But Rees Brennan is still a fan of collaborative writing and shared universes, as in the short stories she writes with Cassandra Clare about characters from Clare’s Mortal Instruments universe. “It’s amazing to gather around a kitchen table and yell at each other excitedly about what’s going to happen to mutually beloved characters,” she says. “I want that for every creative person – a chance to find their imaginative family, wherever it may be.”

Novik scorns the idea that published authors should turn their back on fanfiction. She recalls being on a panel where one member said he couldn’t understand why someone would waste their time writing it over an original work: “I said, ‘Have you ever played an instrument?’ He was like, ‘Yeah, I play piano’. I said, ‘So, do you compose all your own music?’”

“When I was first published, I deliberately went to my editors and said, ‘Yes, I’ve been writing fanfiction for 10 years. I love it.’ It was non-negotiable for me. As soon as you do that, by the way, it turns out that like half of the publishing industry has read or been involved in fanfiction,” she laughs. “Shockingly! It’s amazing how all these women who like storytelling have some connection to the community.”

For Novik and many other writers, fanfiction is a fundamental a way of expressing oneself, of teasing out new ideas and finding a joyous way to engage with writing again after the hard slog of editing a novel. The journey to become a published writer isn’t a straight line; it’s a spiral, as we grow older and continue to explore the characters and tropes we love. There’s so many stories waiting to be told – perhaps one or two of them could involve getting Captain America laid. God knows he needs it.

[catilinas]

Ghost Aeneas Real. there is No Return to Troy. but He does. And it's Creusa who speaks Words of Farewell while he remains silent (mirroring the final farewell to Polydorus for ex). Plus Misenus? Ik there's only M's name attached to the Big Mound but...Aeneas burying himself before he goes Down? Troy as Aeneas's tomb? Anyway. Ghost Aeneas Real.

literally aeneas is so dead. my personal top three Ghost Aeneas Real moments are uh

in aeneid 1 when venus makes him invisible and he's wandering around carthage as it is built. being sad about the fall of troy. looking at the temple frieze (In A Grove. This Matters. it's literally laetissima umbra). about the death of his city. and then he overhears ilioneus telling dido that Yeah Aeneas Is Very Likely Dead and becomes visible again and is like surprise! I'm Here. and you the reader are like ok but are you a ghost. (i think it's Very sexy of vergil to compare how sexy venus makes aeneas when he reappears to ivory or Marble / Decorative Stone right after the description of the stone frieze Which Btw Depicts Aeneas.) (i also extremely think silius had this scene in mind when he wrote hamilcar and hannibal doing necromancy in dido's temple in book 1 of the punica. but that's a whole other thing)

in aeneid 3!!! when aeneas goes to the Extremely fucked up and haunted city of buthrotum. the shadowy lesser double of troy built by helenus and andromache i loooooove buthrotum and i feel like bcs a lot of places dont bother to teach aeneid 3 people miss out on how cool it is. anyway aeneas goes to buthrotum theghostoftroy and finds andromache In A Grove, Sacrificing To Hector's Empty Tomb, and her first questions to him are Are You Real and Are You Alive. ghost aeneas real AND think also that aeneas is narrating this to dido who has also just been shocked by the appearance of aeneas in a grove with some form of physical monument to the trojan war in it. legally you must now reread the scene in aeneid 1 as Also oh fuck that's a ghost.

honourable mention goes to the whole of the book 6 katabasis

when turnus is tricked into chasing an imago (image / phantom / ghost) of aeneas in book 10 like Yes this is a trope in epic battle scenes Yes this happens in the iliad (but like. in the bit where aeneas totally for real dies. why does a ghost have a ghost) Yes i still also think Ghost Aeneas Real. esp because once turnus realises he's been tricked he tries to return to battle / kill himself Three Times and Fails Each Time and that is the only use of ter conatus in the aeneid that is Not about trying to embrace the ghost of a loved one. but it Is right after turnus tried to Chase a ghost. (also was just thinking whereeee is the good scholarship on the book 10 imago and i found this very recent article which looks cool as hell. so.)

in conclusion yeah Ghost Aeneas Real

[catilinas]

Hi! I haven't been following you for long and I'm just starting to get into The Aeneid. Could you explain what you and the other anon meant when you said everyone in The Aeneid is a double of Aeneas? Like who and how? If you decide to answer could you link articles about it too if it's possible (because I'm kinda confused lol)?

the aeneid is (clearly. from its name) a poem about aeneas, so it would be surprising to me if there was any character who didn’t reflect some aspect of aeneas at least a little bit. it is hyperbolic though to say Every Character Is A Double Of Aeneas etc. or is it. eye emoji. there are definitely some characters who are More Blatantly doing doubling things like this Has Been Observed.

most noticeable is (as the other anon was talking about!) turnus. plotwise aeneas and turnus are doubles in that they are both rivals for lavinia. imo the aeneas-turnus doubling starts as soon as the sibyl’s prophecy in book 6 that in italy aeneas will ‘find a simois, a xanthus, and greek camps. in latium you’ll find a new achilles, he too a goddess’ son’ (aeneid 6.88-90 trans. bartsch) LIKE this is saying turnus will be achilles 2.0 But Also aeneas is invading italy! where the sybil says this new trojan landscape is! by taking the role of invader of a trojan landscape aeneas is also framed as a new achilles, and turnus takes the role of trojan defender i.e. what aeneas once Was! and the idea that turnus embodies an earlier (and trojan = not roman yet = defeatable) aeneas is then like. really obvious. e.g. juno tricking turnus into fleeing the battlefield to safety in book 10 as aphrodite saving aeneas from battle in the iliad. there is also the Very Famous parallel in the moment of turnus’ death where ‘ast illi solvuntur frigore membra’ ‘turnus’ knees buckled with chill’ (aeneid 12.951 trans. bartsch) repeats the line that introduced aeneas in book 1 ‘aeneae solvuntur frigore membra’ ‘aeneas’ knees buckled with chill’ (aeneid 1.92 trans. bartsch). what the fuck is going on there. like yes turnus is a weaker (and doomed) aeneas as he dies but also aeneas kills him while succumbing to furor i.e. the force/emotion consistently associated with turnus… like ok you could read it as aeneas overcoming the role of conquered trojan and becoming a hashtag victorious proto-roman via getting someone else to fill his previous role (ritual substitution on main) BUT aeneas killing turnus still ends up looking weirdly like self-sacrifice. and then the academics scream about The Ending Of The Aeneid for One Million Years.

also cool and sexy is that dido is doubled w aeneas!!! this one is kinda an obvious parallel like they are both rulers in exile. they both have dead spouses. they both want to found cities. and alas those cities are destined to be Sworn Foes :( my favourite detail of the aeneas-dido doubling though is vergil being cool and sexy w the verb ‘errare’ (to wander / to Err). the chapter on dido in j.d. reed’s virgil’s gaze (which btw i extremely recommend) says many very cool things about vergil’s Constant use of this verb for dido, including:

‘Dido’s welcoming speech ends with an even subtler and more emotional identification. Her last word—errat, “wanders”—naturally adheres to Aeneas; in his own words, for example, at 1.333. But erro is also her word, connected to her by an etymological pun: the third-century Sicilian historian Timaeus had said that the name Dido was applied to her by Libyans because of her wanderings in exile. [...] The last line of her first speech, in view of this wordplay, makes Aeneas a kind of Dido: perhaps, she fears, he wanders a castaway in some wood or city. Her sympathy with the plight of the Trojans can go no further than to cast their leader as an alter ego’. they are doubles to dido at least. 

and then aeneas seems to see them as interchangeable Enough with one another that him helping to build carthage counts as the city he is destined to found! it takes the literal divine intervention of mercury telling aeneas off for placing the High Foundations Of Carthage (which a Reader knows need to instead by the High Walls Of Rome!!! but aeneas doesn’t!!!) to get him to abandon dido/carthage. fun fact until the end of mercury’s speech where he tells aeneas ‘cui regnum Italiae Romanaque tellus / debetur’ ‘[iulus is] owed the rule of italy, and the soil of rome’ (aeneid 4.275-6 trans. bartsch) aeneas has literally never heard of rome.  and it’s mercury’s promise of italy that makes aeneas claim that ‘haec patria est’ (This Is My Land™!!!!!!) (aeneid 4.347) i.e. the verb ‘errare’ / Wandering does Not define aeneas the way it does dido and they have different fates, actually, and maybe even Wandering for Aeneas Who Must Settle In Italy IS To Err and the doubling starts to fall apart! and you’re like. but what exactly Does make aeneas and dido different. is it just fate??? bcs that fate was/is contingent on a historical Future Enmity between their cities (the punic wars) and vergil is using the future that has already occurred to say this imaginary past was inevitable, and then using the assumed inevitability of the past to say that specific historical outcome Was Inevitable Also. and that is a circle :/ and history Could have gone differently. hashtag here’s how hannibal barca can still win. like to me this is vergil implying that ‘fate’ (the fated foundation and Imperium Sine Fine™ of rome) only goes as far as the contingent historical events that you can retroactively use to justify it. and eventually you will run out of that and end up at the end of the parade of heroes in the present. and what do you (augustus) do then. (but maybe i have been reading too much lucan like the pharsalia brainrot is Real)

BUT ALSO that is kind of the point of (my beloved) virgil’s gaze by thee j.d. reed…… like that every Doomed Youth in the aeneid Could Have Been aeneas and every nation/people each doomed youth stands for Could Have Become Rome or an equivalent. do the doubles everywhere suggest that the rise of Rome Specifically is not as Fixed In Fate as it could be. maybe yeah. or that the Fated Rise Of Rome doomed every other almost-aeneas. pessimistic readings of the aeneid i love YOU <3

anyway yeah. every character in the aeneid kind of Is aeneas. if they have a dad they are Pius Aeneas (e.g. lausus and pallas. esp. pallas who aeneas even claims to be embodying when he kills turnus!). if venus is there. that’s aeneas (helen). if their humanity is sacrificed to the future augustan golden age that’s Also aeneas (turnus and also. marcellus in the underworld). if they Do Some Conquering In An Inset Narrative that is also also aeneas (hercules vs cacus, augustus on the shield of aeneas). if they found a city (or try to. or their city is the ghost of troy. but then aren’t all cities that.) then that’s also aeneas. honestly the aeneas-andromache parallels at buthrotum in book 3 make me go nuts because helenus is Right There! but vergil is like no. aeneas WILL be doubled with a doomed trojan princess who hashtag Lived Past The End Of Her Myth. wild. you can probably find aeneas anywhere if you look close enough! also wait i forgot about his GHOST. the imago of aeneas in book 10. aeneas is literally doubled in a ghostly image of himSElf while he is Still Alive. i get that this is a thing which is allowed to happen in epic poetry but also aeneas IS really extremely undead, especially after book 6, so. yeah. you see evert character being Also Aeneas and you’re like well if everyone is aeneas what is aeneas like. where’s that one article by adam parry. ‘Aeneas from the start is absorbed in his own destiny, a destiny which does not ultimately relate to him, but to something later, larger, and less personal: the high walls of Rome, stony and grand, the Augustan Empire.’ ‘Aeneas' failure as a hero goes deeper than the formality of his speech. As he makes his way through the first six books, we see him successively divested of every personal quality which makes a man into a hero.’ ough. at this point what is the difference between aeneas and his ghost!!!!!!

[catilinas]

hey zombie aeneas enjoyers how do we feel about the imago of aeneas in book 10

[catilinas]

zombie aeneas thesis statement

[catilinas]

wait if aeneas died in troy (either that bit in the iliad OR aeneid 2) could you read his initial refusal to leave troy even as it is being destroyed as him like. haunting it. like aeneas voice i think im gonna linger spectrally :)

[catilinas]

vergil, aeneid 6.703-15 tr. a.s. kline