the-entities-syscourse

[the-entities-syscourse]

i have a question about fictives. i do not understand the "fictives are not their source" base assumption. for context, i have multiple multifictives, and two are even facets of mine (mixed system). they all are adamant that they ARE their source just in the wrong place, wrong timeline, or some other variant of "not in the same universe as source". they like being treated like their source and even as an insourced, I like getting associated with my headmates' sources.

why do I see so many plurals insist on not treating their fictives like their source?

I can understand for fictives where their source is a bad person, but i've seen a few who are source-aligned and love their source but still wish not to be associated with their source.

is there just a preference thing i'm not getting?

Hi Anon!

It's mostly a preference and what seems to be a courtesy thing! Most people usually like if people ask rather than assume.

Quite a few fictives we've seen are rather source separated, while others aren't, and those who are source separated, or just different from exactly what their source is (whether that be due to the brain's interpretation of source or personal preference), prefer if people or other fictives don't assume they are going to be exactly like their source to the letter! It can feel invalidating and uncomfortable for both parties, especially if certain expectations are broken.

Basically, it's just the polite thing to do rather than just automatically assuming "This fictive is exactly like source and exactly what I think they're going to be" because often, they're not!

Like, despite not really being source separate, our fictive of Lizzie from the Empires SMP is nothing like her source would imply her to be like!

((in case we sound rude, I prommy we're not trying to))

-Jay (💀)

[the-entities-syscourse]

According to research, DID must form through childhood trauma sustained before the age of 12, (or 16 in people with ADHD) and cannot be formed without that trauma. Before I knew about the plural community, I knew about peer reviewed research papers, so that's what a lot of my knowledge is based on. As there is no room (that I can see) to doubt these studies, I'm incredibly confused about endogenic systems. I hold the opinion that endogenics are either traumagenic systems with amnesia too severe to remember their trauma, or faking the disorder. This opinion feels flawed, as a demographic this large cannot all be both malicious enough to fake and good enough actors to do so convincingly. As I am not a system, nor do I have any endogenic friends, I'm asking you what you think on the subject.

Sources:

Brand et. al 2014

Schlumpf et. al 2014

Hihi!!

You are 100% correct! The general consensus in psychology is that, yes, CDD's (complex dissociative disorders, e.g. DID/OSDD/UDD) are trauma-based disorders, and need trauma to form. Though, this does not immediately turn down the existence of non-disordered plurality, since, in the name, it has nothing to do with CDD's and that experience of plurality! The only common thread is the plurality itself! Psychology doesn't exist to disprove things; it exists to make solutions and therapies and research into phenomenon that happen within the brain. That is why the FMS Foundation is generally considered non-psychological, they are attempting to prove a negative and are additionally going about it in a dangerous way.

Endogenic plurals don't claim to have CDDs, and if they do, they are either misinformed or trolls trying to tick you off. Most endogenic plurals you will meet will never claim to have a CDD if they don't have one diagnosed.

And I agree with you when you say, "This opinion feels flawed, as a demographic this large cannot all be both malicious enough to fake and good enough actors to do so convincingly." This is what we mean when we say if there is a large community of relatively separate people experiencing the same/similar thing, it's probably a real thing that happens!

A place with some further reading to do on endogenic systems and their existence is Rainbow's Resource Hub on Discord! (link provided). Just go into the research tab and mark that you want posts tagged with "Endogenic" and there are quite a few in there!!

Thank you so much for sending in the ask!! and apologies for the wall of text :c

-Hazard (☣︎)

[the-entities-syscourse]

May I ask? What's your opinion on smaller/not as well known origins of systems? Genuinely curious, I'm sorry.

- Onyx/Kai

Hi, no need to apologize, our opinions are what this blog is for!

We actually have a cataloguing project on Tiktok where we post once a day about lesser-known origins (using Pluralpedia as a main resource, since we're cataloguing community terms) in alphabetical order!

We think they're very cool and creating terms to describe your experiences is very cool and we love to see people doing it!! And, of course, they are valid c:

-Haz (☣︎)

[the-entities-syscourse]

So I kind of made a (not syscourse) post about this, but I’d like to address something about willomancy “proof” if yall dont mind, from your resident Buddhist Indian.

Willomancy, while ive learned is not a “rip-off” of Buddhist tulpamancy, is still a similar concept. And I feel like it’s very important for others, especially white ppl, to keep in mind that while not ALL willos are spiritual at all, a LOT of us are. A lot of cultures have ties to practices like willomancy, even if under different names, and honestly it’s exhausting to be expected to “prove” willomancy is possible, if that makes sense.

Non-spiritual willos will probably feel differently, but for me it’s upsetting bc it’s essentially asking me to prove my spirituality. It’s an argument rooted in racism and systemic oppression, and one my people have heard since forever- my culture is less than the white man’s because it’s unscientific and can’t be proved. /s

Now obviously non-spiritual willos are just as valid as spiritual ones, but there are some very heavy and obvious overlaps between spirituality and willomancers, and to ignore that would be a mistake. So when ppl (anti-willos) start harping about proof, all I can think of is the bigotry ive faced from yt people my whole life as a non-white person w a “uncultured” religion. When a yt Christian says praying to God changes lives, people usually accept that. When I say my spiritual beliefs influence my plurality? “Proof!?! Where’s the proof?!? DID FAKER!!!”

I talked about it a lot here https://www.tumblr.com/dotdot-nine/786657744742645760/not-syscourse-do-not-tag-as-syscourse-do-not, a lot more eloquently. It’s late and my brain is fried. But I have a lot of thoughts on bigotry and the overlap of spirituality and willomancy, and I think it’s funny how the surge in syscourse rn is all about “proving” or “disproving” willogenics in specific.

^^^^^^

You are completely valid in however you experience plurality and you never ever need proof for your own personal experiences.

Thank you for submitting this!!!

-Hazard (☣︎)

[the-entities-syscourse]

You know they have alts, right? Blocking them isn't going to be the end of it. Also, answering it without "answering" it is still engagement.

I am fully aware they have alts, which is why we will continue to block them, we don't really care if they continue to harass us because it's not personally hurting us that much and all their points are ridiculous. We would rather be seen as someone who will defend those we believe in rather than just ignore and let them continue to batter our asks.

It's more engagement for us and our account, and like I said, we are very argumentative and are using this to pass time during the summer since we have nothing better to do (insert shrug emoji)

(Sorry if this sounds rude/standoffish, we don't know how to control tone in text, we're just simply explaining our reasoning)

-Haz (☣︎)

[the-entities-syscourse]

I saw the ask about willos being roleplayers and I’d actually like some real resources on willos if you do have any? We are very pro willo we don’t need proof they exist because we know they do but some of our neurogenic headmates dont understand it fully

Hi, of course!

We have a few community resources that we are glad to share!

First off, here is the pluralpedia page on willogenic!

We've also found discord servers focused towards willogenic plurals that are trustworthy and I am 100% sure would be ready and willing to answer any questions you have about willomancy!!! They have reliable verification systems and lovely people in them!!

Crimson Blossoms

Headmate Creation Station

I hope these are even the slightest bit helpful!!

-Haz (☣︎)

[the-entities-syscourse]

We found the Pluralpedia page for willomancy if you would like it:

https://pluralpedia.org/w/Willogenic

I'm sorry if it's not helpful

Thank you so much!!

Posting this so others can see it. We've found that resources on willomancy are very difficult to find, so anything is helpful!

No need to apologize at all ! :3

-Hazard (☣︎)

[the-entities-syscourse]

I'm glad people like you are willing to argue for us because I'm not a very confrontational person

The thing that's been getting to me is why do anti endos always think I'm some sort of villain? Like, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to invalidate you or take any of your resources, I just want a way to describe what I've experienced. Why is the idea that I'm telling the truth so unbelievable to you? Why is it so wrong for me not to be miserable with the way we are? It's been difficult, but now I'm never alone. For the first time, I feel loved and supported. Have you gotten so used to being labelled the bad guy that anything else feels like a mockery?

Sorry I'm just moody and rambling

"Former Singlet" of a willo system

Of course!

We are an extremely argumentative person (lol) which is part of the reason we made this account!

We love researching, and debating, and so on!

I'm so so so sorry that the anti willo anon(s) have been harassing willos and making you feel icky about the way you are, you are valid and you and your sysmates are very real, and what a random stranger on the internet who isn't even brave enough to show their account in their hateful asks can never change that.

We love you willos, and we will always fight for your honor <3

-Hazard (☣︎)

[the-entities-syscourse]

BLOCKED!!! 💞

Not going to give them the dignity of answering their actual ask, so take a screenshot instead!

First of all, wild how I asked for proof of their claims multiple times and they simply continued to be argumentative and rude. Also! Even wilder that you support endos and non-disordered systems but not willos???

Second off, nobody is "pretending" to have a CDD, this is the millionth time I've said this, I know I sound like a broken record, BUT YOU DO TOO!!! Nobody is "acting like they're disabled", that is not what willomancy is and you clearly cannot understand this.

But, long story short, we figured out how to block anons, due to a very helpful member of a discord we're in, and they have officially been blocked! Bye anti willo anon, I hope you enjoyed tormenting our blog for the short time you had access to it!

We will be doing the same and then wall-of-shaming them as such in the future!

-Hazard (☣︎)

[the-entities-syscourse]

not asking or showing resources but a reminder to ALL reading this to UNCLENCH your JAW(S)! yes that means you too entities syscourse. unclench that jaw and drink some water and get some food

THANK YOUU ANON!!!

Posting this for all to remember :3

(very helpful because we are in a constant state of clenching our jaw teehee)

-Haz (☣︎)

[the-entities-syscourse]

Here’s a good resource on willomancy! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing#:~:text=Role%2Dplaying%20or%20roleplaying%20is,act%20out%20an%20adopted%20role.

Wow! I sure do love when people take well-intentioned asks for resources and insight on an identity to fakeclaim and insult people! (sarcastic)

In all seriousness, while you may think you're being funny, it's hurtful and plain untrue that willomancy is roleplay, they are two separate things.

You sound like fakeclaimers who say people with CDDs are just roleplaying. Spreading this ideology isn't helping anyone.

(also we were so excited when we saw this, we thought someone was actually being genuinely helpful and kind. what a joke. in the most disrespectful way possible, fuck off)

-Hazard (☣)

[the-entities-syscourse]

how do you percieve system communities treating the topic of self harm of all kinds, and do you have any issues with any aspects of that? on a related topic, how do you see the topic of addiction in general being treated? and do you have any issues there with how addiction is treated community wise?

Hi Anon!

We've been in the system community for a long time at this point, and in our personal opinion, as far as we've seen, the situation with self-harm in the system community has gotten a lot better than it was circa 2020.

Back then it was more normalized and "ideal" to self-harm, to have "real" struggles, and it was a lot like a competition to some. Gore in general used to be a huge problem online and still kind of is. Back then we were in multiple servers that got raided and spammed with gore. People would brag about harming themselves.

I've noticed that as the community grows there are a lot more resources available (some that are even plural specific), and a lot of bigger groups have support systems of multiple members to help out when someone is struggling (RRH is one that comes to mind). Though sometimes it does still slip into being a romanticized and trivialized issue in smaller pockets of the internet, which I do take a problem with since having that unhealthy mindset and wanting to be "worse" isn't helping anything, especially if it's in a server where recovery isn't encouraged. And in that case, I believe resources should be provided and intervention is important, because self-harm can kill. Even if it's not fun or what the person self-harming "wants". Mental illness distorts one's reality and sometimes what people on the outside see as helping and necessary, might not align with what the person on the inside thinks, but that doesn't mean it's any less necessary.

As for addiction, it seems to be an even more trivialized issue, still to this day, and it's more of an internet-wide issue, I've noticed, not plural community specific. Addiction isn't taken very seriously, especially if it's not drug addiction. We believe there should be more resources available for all forms of addiction and it's important to educate people on what these different forms are and look like so that they can spot it and get those who suffer from it help.

Sorry if this is kind of incoherent, I went on a rant and couldn't be stopped. But thank you for the question, it got me thinking!!

-Hazard (☣)

[the-entities-syscourse]

stares at you so squirrel like with squirrelly intentions. 🐿

.

.

.

can i have a nut? please? OnO

Yes you may, what a polite squirrel teehee

-Hazard (☣)

[the-entities-syscourse]

how do you feel about the topic of certain system spaces, such as discord servers, that are exclusive? how should the community treat such discord servers that are exclusive to different kinds of people? do you have any issues with how the community treats discord servers that are currently exclusive to different kinds of people?

Hi Anon!

In my personal opinion (as in Hazard lol), plural spaces as a whole are/should be all-inclusive. As in, since the label plural is all-inclusive to systems of any origin, spaces marketed as "plural spaces" should reflect that.

BUT, trauma-focused, and trauma-specific spaces for CDD systems can still exist while following the above by just making them CDD/trauma-specific, since that is the main really big distinction between disordered and non-disordered plurality! And these spaces should and can be exclusive for those with trauma to find community and support within each other and it's not a bad thing for them to exist!

An issue I have currently with the community is that there is a large part that believes endogenic plurals should be excluded from system spaces entirely, either because those people believe they are "fake" or "invading" those spaces (both untrue). If you know about plural history online, you know these spaces have always mixed disordered and non-disordered plurals, and there have also always been trauma-focused spaces too!! The system and plural community aren't exclusive to those with CDDs and shouldn't be, its open to everyone! Exclusivity was never the basis of the community and plurality is for all those who identify with it.

-Haz (☣)

[the-entities-syscourse]

This isn't a syscourse post, but more a personal ask from us for specific resources! (and we are always looking for broader resources on any plural topic so if you ever feel compelled to, message/comment/send them in an ask to us!!)

We are very interested in learning more about willomancy and creating headmates.

If anyone has any resources about this (whether it be discord servers, blogs on here, videos, websites, tiktoks, and so on) we would love to see them!!! Feel free to message them or comment them under this post!!

Thank you so much!!

-Hazard (☣)

[the-entities-syscourse]

do you think that the cultural significance of punitive justice has played any role in how system, plural, and syscourse, communities function?

Hi Anon!

So sorry to ask this, but we don't really understand the wording/words in the ask (we're not very good with complex wording because of the ASD)

Would you kindly reword or further explain this ask and resubmit? Thank you in advance and so sorry for the hassle (sob)

-Haz (☣)

[the-entities-syscourse]

We will no longer be responding to any anti-willo anons.

We are, quite frankly, tired of arguing with brick walls! If you are one of the people sending us these asks, we will probably just delete it.

We are still accepting other syscourse related asks and will answer them as they come, but the anti willo ones are, honestly, getting out of hand, absurd, and it's nigh impossible to get a point through to them.

Thank you!

-Bug (🐛)