zeevoidlight

[zeevoidlight]

frieza thinks that gohan could be raditz's kid? when does this happen?

In the anime. I don't have those numbers of the manga but in the anime he does question it during the Namek saga.

[zeevoidlight]

what do you think of a virgin raditz then? i was introduced to the concept recently and i was intrigued

I suppose it could be. We don't actually know anything official of course so there's just speculation and headcanons to go by so idk.

Vegeta I think was definitely virgin. Nappa most likely not because he was more than ready to revive their species when he heard about Gohan, without any real issues about this whole idea of his. Like "yeah! Let's repopulate between the two of us with these earthlings and form an army"... I... suppose? Raditz then could go either way, given that he was in the middle of the other two.

You could go the route of thinking he was always a Vegeta follower and tried to be more like him and Nappa, still trying to live up to expectations since he was low class (or high class but in the lower end of high classes) among them. If so he would try to think more like Vegeta and just like Nappa after being shut down by Vegeta after his suggestion of having offspring with humans, Raditz would do as Vegeta says and probably think the same. They grew up together after all. So he would be virgin as well.

On the other hand, Nappa was more reckless and didn't thought as much ahead as we know. So if Raditz were to spend more time with Nappa he would more likely be pushed by him into doing reckless things and "live a little bit" as long as Vegeta is not looking. That's my guess at least. But at the same time I think his recklessness would be more about fighting and destroying things than having relationships.

Maybe he was undecided in the middle of the two sides of the conversation.

I've unhealthily thought about this instead of what I should be doing but if the Saiyan trio was under Frieza's army, both Raditz and Vegeta would be basically child soldiers growing up among grown up soldiers and learning "the ways". Even if it's just in the form of being passed down a dirty magazine (which is just how Goku learned from Roshi). Otherwise how would you think Vegeta knows what flipping the bird means and entails. Same with Raditz I suppose.

The thing is, Saiyans are more than likely demi, so they would need an external force for them to consider it. Otherwise they don't really think about it. So it all depends on what kind of adventures and shenanigans they get into, Raditz specifically in this case, of which we know nothing about, so let your imagination go wild.

(is also curious to think that for Frieza it didn't seem too outlandish to think Gohan could be Raditz offspring, as well as considering Vegeta or Nappa as the father).

[zeevoidlight]

I believe I saw in your Vegebul post that you believe most Saiyans may be demisexual?

I was wondering about that, being demi myself, and about Raditz in particular. The fandom likes to characterize him as kinda slutty, which is also awesome and I'm down for that too!

But I wonder how accurate it is. They make him out to be fairly tsundere in the Xenoverse 2 game. Maybe I just really like the idea of a grouchy tsundere Raditz who hasn't really ever let anyone get close to him...and if he ever does he's shook

I haven't seen XenoVerse2 but I would assume he would be demisexual as well as other pure blooded Saiyans. He can be slutty and still be demi. The only "requirement" is that he's not banging for bangin's sake.

[zeevoidlight]

good morning, human scum. (I finally got my figuarts Raditz!)

[zeevoidlight]

Why do the Z fighters even keep Vegeta around if he's seemingly irredeemable

I have seen this question over and over again. Why do everyone seem to forgive him and endure all his bullshit.

Well I thought about it, and re-watching the start to the android saga I found the answer and is quite simple really.

Krillin is the one that actually explains it quite well to Bulma when they are deciding what to do with the Dr Gero menace. Basically he says that they can count that Piccolo slowly has changed to being a good guy and they can make sure that he will eventually become friends with them. But Vegeta is a wild card, and they don't actually know if he can ever change his evil nature, but it is convenient for Vegeta to still stick around, and them to be in his good side, because even if he is a bad guy he is useful because of his power (how strong he is is also why they have to be careful with how they handle him), and is much better to have him as a friend. And who knows, maybe with time he'll become an actual friend as well, because in his experience that's what always happens with most bad guys that basically get united under Goku's banner.

(And that's why Krillin agrees with the Saiyan's absolutely insane and stupid plan to not go after Gero in that moment and kill him, and better wait until the androids are made, against all logic. Because he prefers to think ahead and play his cards now regarding the Z team's delicate future).

And he's right

Why do they always seem to forgive him. They don't necessarily forgive him, like Ten ShinHan and his ever lasting grudge against Vegeta, or Yamcha and his personal rivalry with him, Piccolo respects Vegeta as a fighter but he cannot stand him as a person. They don't even have to like having him around, like most of the Z fighters. It's just like that necessary evil they need to have around because having him as an enemy would be much worse, so they better try to become friends and that includes enduring bullshit and maybe forgive but not forget.

But also it is clear, in the Cell saga mostly, that Vegeta can also become the Black Sheep of the group and get blamed for everything he does and everything he doesn't behind his back. He can get called out for his bullshit, but others aren't. He gets blamed for his shortcomings but others aren't. Focusing the attention of everything bad that he does and cutting attention away from other Z fighters idiocies.

But that's interesting. It's almost funny because is so true to life. Like the family's Black Sheep, lol.

So yeah. Regardless of if you think he's always been evil and hasn't changed and doesn't deserve kindness or be forgiven or redemption, or if you think he did learned and changed his nature into being a good guy, that's not the point. The point is that having him in the team is strategically better even if it means that he'll snap and kill a bunch of people suddenly. Even if they are just pretending to be friends, is better to convince him that they are going to have his back and tolerate a lot of things, and maybe eventually they won't have to pretend (and be because he helps them get rid of the other bad guys anyways. They need him in the team as well).

But that leaves Vegeta later alone with his crimes. Because he will not be able to escape them without that soft cushion of thinking himself justified for it because he "is" evil, or because he has that excuse that others are against him and he has to react. The kindness he gets, even if it's by convenience, does make him feel obligated to behave and change slowly. When others aren't reacting against you you can't justify to react back if you have even a tiny bit of goodness and self consciounes in you, because it leaves you very exposed to seeing your own bad actions. And he cannot die to try to escape all he did. That's why later he has his internal conflict with it in the Buu saga and tries to look for an excuse in Babidi's magic to become evil again, and try to avoid feeling any regrets. And in Super why others call him out on what he did, and he cannot avoid it anymore because he did changed, acknowledging that he is not worth having anything good for all he did. But he can't do anything about it but not continue doing it and try to be better even if he'll never be forgiven by many and even if he is convinced that his destiny is going to hell for sure (although, who knows, I don't think anyone can really judge that).

[zeevoidlight]

....

I'm not crying... You're crying T-T...

(my chicken heart can't handle the cuteness)

[zeevoidlight]

I've been getting into drawing again too It's been difficult. I've never considered myself as good at drawing because I cannot exactly draw, I can only copy what I see and do scribbles but I can't do something on my own, based on structures or anything. And even when copying I still mess up. I've never followed tutorials or taken classes, idk, is a complicated theme for me. But I wanted to try again because I got some DB mangas and the drawings just pulled me to try. And I'm looking around different artists to see what I like to inspire me to do something of my own.

[zeevoidlight]

I like better the Z explanation for the origins of the Saiyans

That they were natives to planet Plant alongside the Tuffles/Tsufurus, and at first they had a relatively peaceful life together.

Until they didn't and the Saiyans attacked the tsufurus because it's hinted by Vegeta in GT that according to their history the tsufurus started to treat the Saiyans like slaves (maybe just a misunderstanding caused by differences in culture since ones were very technologically advanced and the others were savage) (it kinda reminds me of the Orcs and Draenei from World of Warcraft, a bit similar situation if we ignore the whole Burning Legion thing, idk, an expert will probably tell me it's not the same thing but whatever).

Then the Saiyans decide to invade the tsufurus and exterminate them to make the planet their own only (later re-naming it Planet Vegeta in honor to the King at the time, or the one who would become their king). They stole their technology and learned it quite fast with what the tsufurus left behind.

I also like to think that the Saiyans as a species didn't had a long history of existing in the universe. Meaning that as an intelligent species they appeared in the universe quite recently compared to the others. That's why they were very primitive (even in their society as a warrior culture kinda indicates it), and due to their ability to get stronger with zenkai boosts you'd think they would notice that and abuse it to a degree, so they actually evolved quite rapidly. And later Frieza recruited them. And not much later Frieza decided they were becoming too strong and too dangerous to him quite fast, enough for him to fear the appearance of a legend, then it makes sense if they didn't had much time of existing in terms of time and timing of the events. It would make sense with Frieza deciding to recruit them in the first place and later regret it, with how superstitious he was he wouldn't had recruit them if the Saiyans were that powerful (or if he knew how fast they could evolve/become much stronger) when he met them. They probably became very intelligent too, or at least skillful with technology even if they couldn't entirely comprehend it since it was stolen and they were more warriors than scientists (I mean even Goku could gather pretty quickly how space craft worked when he had to use his brain to try to escape Namek, looked for the control room, even activated Frieza's ship choosing a specific button and almost managed to make it fly if not for the busted engine). They sold and exchanged the technology later to Frieza like we see implied in the anime. That's why now all Frieza force uses scouters and the "Saiyan armor", because it was originally the tsufurus technology, saiyans didn't invented that (well,maybe the armour design was the Saiyan's but not the material and means to do them).

Filler or not I like it. It was a quick explanation they made based on the lore Toriyama kinda had at the time and what Toriyama tell them a bit, like a draft for the anime while they waited for Toriyama to continue the manga or just to make Goku's visit to Kaio's planet more meaningful with him asking about his origins. Draft or not, canon or not, I like it better and is my anime canon.

(also, I was listening to some youtube playlist while writing this and this banger dropped, so cool... well.. time to do some actual work, whatever that means)

[zeevoidlight]

i was thinking... (DB and Pathologic going Meta) ("...write the time", my grandpa used to say every time I'd say I was thinking, lol)... I saw a shirt in walmart the other day and it had a picture of Vegeta from Kai. Pretty normal stuff but I've always thought that the Kai art, well of course is modernized to make it more digestible for new audiences that feel the original Z series looks too old, but I've always felt that the characters look older in age in this style.

And yeah, I guess if you compare the two styles (the old one and the new) they look very different to one another. Generally Kai makes them... chubbier? wider? idk, they look like they more robust somehow, and their necks are a bit wider like when they get older in Z (or they appear that way to me), the eyes are a bit smaller and rectangular, they have more detail, the hair looks more geometrical... (I personally prefer the older style, looks more hand drawn)

CHARACTERS AS ACTORS

I've always had this strange feeling that characters have different versions of themselves because I always lived with dubbed material (series, cartoons, movies, songs, many imported from either the US or Japan). Sometimes the mouth wouldn't match what they were saying and the illusion breaks a bit but you get it, or the voice actors would change from one chapter to the other in series or movies. You just get used to it and understand that for a couple of minutes you pretend the characters are "real" to enter this world they are in and enjoy the story they have to tell. Like in the theater where, yeah there's a scenery and you have to use your imagination a bit to pretend the Sun is there in the background even if it's a painted cardboard Sun and there's no walls but there's a chair and some props so just pretend for a second it's a house. It's a similar feeling. Sometimes the actors change and, yeah is not Popeye from the cartoon, is a person that kinda looks like him pretending to be him, and maybe in the next show is going to be a different actor, or the same one but older years later still doing the same roll. The Voice actors don't look like the characters but in a way it's them. etc. (I took this one from facebook, credits to the author whomever they might be. This are the Latin VAs)

Even the characters themselves I think them sometimes existing separate from their own creators. Like when something makes no sense with them or they "get out of character", or simply when they are put into certain situations, is because they are literally being told what to do and how to act, where to be by the author, writer, or the director in turn, they dictate how they have to be "outside of their own control" sometimes. It's different interpretations according to who is writing them and sometimes separate from who the characters actually are in this separate plane of existence where there must exist a real version of themselves (see the Plato's allegory of the cave). Like puppet masters, or "God" playing with someone's destiny, a Game Master in a roleplaying game.

Where am I going with this and DB? I'm just here rambling with no point yet.

Well seeing Kai's art (which is closer to Super) it makes me imagine DB characters as actors themselves that have gotten older now but is as if they were called to re-shoot Z again and since they are "older" interpreting they are their younger selves is like in the theater. The voice actors sound older as well so it's kinda funny XD (Vegeta at the start of the Saiyan Saga vs his look in the Majin Buu Saga below)

If you've never played or seen the game series Pathologic (uhh... spoilers) but is exactly the same, and in the game is even part of the premise. The characters (and actors) of the first game are both real and fictional (they were made in the likeness of some people), and the second game is the retelling of the story of the first one but with some changes and a bit different according to the director and writer that didn't wanted to just do a remake and tell a slightly different story with the same premise. But the actors themselves have gotten older, and the characters, even if they are now their own in a way, separate from the people they were base on, were made older as well, even when being fictional they shouldn't be constrained by time or design because you could just remake them however you want and that's it. But no, they actually aged them but they interpret their same younger self from the first game. Some characters even "changed actors", and you are left to wonder if the previous one just didn't wanted to make the roll or for whatever reason they couldn't make it (even if they are completely fictional! XD).

First image is Daniil Dankovsky in the first game (and next to it is the game model), he's supposed to be 28. Second image is the same character too but is like "he was called to do the same roll" but years later. Nowhere does it say that but the game uses the theme of The Theater to make you understand that the whole game is all a play and you are engaging with it playing pretend for a while while playing the game. And you even start the game in a theater with the characters playing their role before you choose a character to "play". Is never explicit with the theme so that's why it is a spoiler, you are supposed to discover it as you play the game.

It's a very nice illusion, and very fun.

I also recently saw the Dragon Ball: Mystic Adventure movie (I never really saw the movies when younger), and to my surprise it was EXACTLY this same concept. The characters were just actors interpreting sometimes a different role in a sort of play to just tell a different story and have some fun for a couple of minutes. And I was just so happy! because it is exactly how I see the characters many times. With the whole "multiple universes", multiple timelines, the movies being their own things altogether, I do see them that way sometimes when you lift the curtain a bit. And I wished there were more movies with the DB characters like that. Where they are actors interpreting a different role just for the fun of it.

Idk, I'm pretty sure many people would absolutely hate the idea because they are very set on how the characters should be always, and I'm pretty sure many people absolutely hate that movie (or the movies in general just like how they skip the filler and anything that is not purely in the manga by word of God) because it makes no sense or because it's irrelevant, it has no canon meaning or it gives nothing that can be used to say anything important about the characters or whatever. But it's FUN.

I like that I thought Ran Ran was the princess or something, and I don't know if it was intended to be understood as it being a doll all along, or if it was a doll prop that was supposed to represent the lost princess, lol

I actually liked that movie. Very creative. And it catered into my own fantasy of the characters as actors. That do have their own story, which is the story we are told in the series, but at the same time is somehow like that Daffy Duck short where he is fighting against the cartoonist XD. Like the way Toriyama used to sometimes include 4th wall jokes in the manga, or self references, self acknowledgement that it was all play pretend (that it was a manga), self appearances, or even the characters themselves in the series when they start asking the logic of what happens and can't find an answer to it. Like how Vegeta cannot fathom how Goku is better and somehow always ahead of him despite how much he actually trains (even more than Goku as he himself says), is like a divine bad joke by how Toriyama gives Goku the most insane plot armor but there's not way for them to know that. Or how Goku himself is somewhat conscious of the problem that he is somehow the one that ends up saving everyone and is annoyed by this fact at the same time on how "destiny" makes him always be the savior of the planet (lol), like he cannot do anything about it. Is just fun for me to integrate a meta narrative when it fits.

that's all. Just some dumb thoughts.

[zeevoidlight]

I wished more people added subtitles to this master pieces of video analysis (Bardock: the anti-prophet) so anyone can understand it. I guess the autotranslate is not that bad if you can guess where the next sentence starts and not laugh when a word is translated badly, lol.

But I absolutely agree with Gordo here (who i didn't knew before, is just a fortunate youtube recommend). I will say it again and again, I love the TV special, I love the old lore, love asshole Bardock, I love the more barbaric Saiyans, and... at least I'm grateful that this piece of media exists in some way or form so that I could experienced it as it was independently of what is now accepted as current canon since i could care less.

I keep watching the Frieza Saga in the meantime. What a treat.

(I'll add this one as well that goes by the title "Canon doesn't exist". Sounds interesting, doesn't it. Is so informative)

[zeevoidlight]

Why didn't he protected them

Is actually difficult for me to discern because Vegeta and Bulma went from getting close to each other and starting to trust each other enough to be intimate, even if it was just for the sex, to Vegeta not caring if she and baby Trunks died at all, and Bulma being very distant from Vegeta while still being in a relationship. And I don't believe the thing some say that he didn't actually cared for her or didn't actually noticed her in a deeper way until much later (basically the idea that Vegeta was just Trunks sperm donor and only was with Bulma for the sex), nah. diss's moch complcated, i swear (nah not really, I just want an excuse to talk more about my obsession). (Note that I watched the latin version so my interpretation of the characters and context might be different from the English version).

I'll talk about these event and about saiyan culture regarding babies, Vegeta and Bulma's relationship during the Cell saga, and how Vegeta might have felt towards Baby Trunks and Future Trunks.

//////////

Saiyans, family and culture

The popular idea is that yes, he was a major jerk by letting Bulma and Baby Trunks almost die at the start of the Android saga, and yeah, he actually was. But one thing that people often forget is that he is not human, he is a saiyan, and that kind of behavior wasn't that abnormal for his culture/species. Is actually expected.

I mean, Saiyan's used to send their babies (the weak ones) in capsules to other planets to pop out of the ship, project an artificial moon into the sky and start making havoc for months until everyone was dead. If the baby survives they will later go to the planet for him eventually to claim the planet and sell it, and I guess later reintegrate the little saiyan into their society again. Like a rite of passage just to acquire the right to live, otherwise they just die unceremoniously. (And it was a way to try to hide and justify mass child genocide by taking out the "weak genes" out of their population just like a Spartans would... *clears throat").

Even Bardock was like that (pre retcon because i will use the saiyan lore of the era to explain something of the same time period of it's creation). While the others were like "hey! You got a baby kid! Aren't you going to go to planet Vegeta to check on him? How about a celebration or something", and Bardock is like "NO. Who would want to visit a low class soldier like that, I'm not r-[redacted]" (man... DBZ Bardock was a different animal entirely, i freaking loved him). (I have the theory that Raditz was actually in the lower end of high class soldiers. maybe will talk about it in another post).

Anyway, yeah, that's basically the way of thinking of saiyans. A little bit like Piccolo's tough love type of survival training with Gohan but even more savage and detached because if they died and it was their kid it was gonna suck really bad and hurt a lot their pride but what had to happen happened since they cannot get involved in those first years and cannot go save them, end of story, make another baby, maybe the next one will be stronger. They just had babies to send them off, and they have a blood relation with each other but they didn't had the concept of a family, not exactly, like humans would have, usually though, because once again the royal family did had those kinds of bonds to precisely preserve their lineage and secure their babies would born powerful above everyone else.

Of course we all know Bardock was still worried about Kakarott and he wanted to appear tougher with his teammates, he was worried the same way every other saiyan does it in a very distant manner to not get their feelings get in the way of their job as warriors (I mean, he did passed by the nursery in his hurry and stopped to check on Goku while he was there after all). Much like King Vegeta himself who said that he didn't care about what happened to his son, Vegeta, after some saiyan royal adviser (or knight, idk) asks him if it's true that he will have to give his son to Frieza because Vegeta was going to be real in danger if he did in the flashback in the Frieza saga. He wasn't going to say "yes i do feel terrible for my son and it hurts me deeply" even if he was absolutely devastated, he says that he doesn't care because he cannot appear weak, and because it was also true what he said about being more angered by how Frieza had them under his thumb, in that moment he was decided to confront Frieza so he couldn't let himself feel.

And later Vegeta himself said he didn't cared about his race or his father to Dodoria when he was revealing the truth about their planet's destruction while at the same time is true that he was angered about being lied to and about being kept in their control since childhood . The thing is Vegeta doesn't care about the actual people of his race but more about what they represent and are supposed to be, only those who are saiyan in blood and meaning are worthy of calling themselves saiyan, that's why he doesn't revive them but he does care deeply and is proud of it, just in another level. And regarding his father we know he was lying because every time he remembers him in the series he does it fondly and with a lot of pride, like when he's outright telling Goku to avenge their parents, or when remembering him to give himself confidence that he will be able to become Ssj. Is not like they don't "care", but they have to be intelligent about what to reveal so it cannot be taken against them later and to a degree convince themselves on getting detached from many things to keep their fighting instincts up front and take decisions with their heads cold whatever had to happen. Just like we hear him say all terrified in Namek when Krillin got impaled by Frieza "What an idot!...That's what happened to him for paying attention to that Namekuseijin! (Dende)", and then after Gohan looses his mind and knocks Frieza down momentarily Vegeta tells Gohan "Don't loose your time worrying about him! [Krillin]. Do you think Frieza was going to die with that?!". Is what they don't say and try to hide (as we see explicitly with Vegeta when confronting Frieza he purposefully hid the existence of Goku from him and lied, making Frieza believe that Vegeta himself was the only saiyan survivor left but in his thoughts we hear him say "and Kakarott...").

Vegeta's priorities

Same can be said of Vegeta with baby Trunks, i would believe. Their children are their legacy in a way after all, and like an extension of themselves and their own ego. But what made Vegeta forget the feelings and pride he might have had with Bulma and Trunks to not even being a thing that was important is literally everything else going on around him at the same time in those years. It was a very conflicting era for him in several fronts, specially related to his place in the world, his newfound freedom from Frieza's hand since he was a child, him getting used to a new life in another culture, another planet, other type of people, his love relationship, his place as a saiyan in relation to the other few of his species, his title as prince among the low class saiyans that had surpassed him by this point and not by little, his twice stolen destiny to be the the legendary super saiyan that now that he became one as well he had to demonstrate he was the better Ssj among them, the news of him getting killed in the near future in another timeline by just some rando earthling androids that somehow were stronger than Frieza and that the android he defeated (19) alongside the other one (Gero) weren't the right ones, he was really pissed about it and starting to get worried, they couldn't sense the androids by their chi (ki), it was becoming a mess, and he absolutely HAD to be the one that would kill all the androids all on his own to go back to his rightful place in the power scale. Is quite the heavy burden.

So, family? his son? Bulma? ultimately they were at the end of the list of his priorities. And that is very clear thorough this entire first part, even when he was officially in his relationship with Bulma.

Bulma

That's partially why Bulma was attracted to him in the first place though, because he was extremely determined in his ambitions, she respects that, and saw how deeply it was hurting him when he had that training accident and was subconsciously talking in his sleep. She was going to carry that responsibility for him so he could focus on himself. That's why she doesn't reclaim him anything or judges him on things related to that other than jokingly. She knew what she was getting into and has always known. Unfortunately she isn't that responsible of a person herself though. That's why she herself puts her own life and Baby Trunks life in danger, because she is just as determined and obstinate, and Vegeta knows that as well, that's why he doesn't "care", because he respects her decisions as well (and ultimately can't do much about it either). If she wants to put their own lives in danger because she thinks she's up to their game is her responsibility then, not his, and he cannot get involved because he has a job to do regarding himself and his own battles, he had to be detached. Also he was annoyed and fed up with Bulma's stubbornness since he already told her not to be a stupid and do stupid things like put herself in danger way before when Frieza went to Earth, and now she's doing it again (the first time he thought it was hot though (it was so funny that he looks back at her and then talks to himself all thoughtful like "Not only she's vulgar but she's aggressive/daring too", translation -> 'I might like this chick'), but this time is a not cute at all). I don't think it was something personal, not even the "[..] foolish woman and her blasted child" thing, like he says in the english dub, he had more important things he had to worry about. What he says to Trunks in the latin dub is "What stupidities are you saying. I don't care in the slightest, you idiot" (i wish I could have found the japanese one but it is what it is and is the closest I have to it) so he doesn't say mean things to Bulma or Trunks specifically. The interesting part here is to think if Vegeta was saying "I don't care" because he actually didn't care, or "I don't care" not because he didn't but because he couldn't. Vegeta is terrified of feeling and has always been. And yes, I say he was absolutely right because what saiyans try to avoid by giving too information and care is exactly what happened and Gero used her as a distraction, blasted the place and with it Bulma's ship and escaped thinking that they were going to be too busy saving her to notice where he ran to. Still a dick move but I cannot blame him too much. So yeah, it is very much in the tone of if Bulma thinks she can be in the middle of the battle field then so be it, if they survive they'll prove themselves not to be to useless after all, if they die it will suck but it had to be for being idiots.

Being a warrior

Vegeta is a warrior first and foremost. And him being a warrior is why later he is excited to see Cell's perfect form, just like Goku (being a pure blooded saiyan) he cannot contain himself from seeing what immense power looks like, and dares Future Trunks to attack him if Trunks had the balls to do it in order to stop him. Like "bro, are you really gonna to go against your pops? prove it. That's why Future Trunks cannot comprehend him, because Trunks is part earthling and cannot fathom someone getting excited about fighting for the sake of fighting itself and proving one's self where power is the only thing that matters. And why Vegeta cannot stand Future Trunks either, because F Trunks fights for justice and peace.

Baby Trunks

About Baby Trunks, we can only speculate of course but I would assume baby Trunks was conceived right after Vegeta became super saiyan (?) because later in the Buu saga kid Trunks was able to become Ssj without any effort just like Goten (who was definitely conceived during that week Goku was in Ssj the whole time), while present/future Gohan and Future Trunks had to get the transformation the OG hard way like their fathers. I guess future Trunks did accidentally change the time where he would be conceived in the present timeline by just a bit since we do see that Vegeta becomes Ssj in future timeline, probably after Goku dies (he was present with the others in Goku's house when he died and Bulma already had Baby Future Trunks with her) and before the androids appear in the future timeline as we see him transformed to fight, though that's still my speculation.

I think even though Trunks was still a baby maybe there was a way for Vegeta to sense his initial power level (? I'm just assuming some things here). And I don't remember exactly when did saiyan babies were packed and sent to planets to conquer them (maybe a few months old and expected to destroy the people in the planet in around 6 months from arrival having Goku and Earth as an example in the Bardock special) but Baby Trunks definitely doesn't look powerful or very strong regardless, not compared to Vegeta himself as a baby. And Vegeta knew that the mix between saiyans with earthlings produced a stronger breed but just look at this little guy, he looks more earthling than saiyan without much promises, might as well not have much saiyan blood in him, he didn't had his black/dark hair, he wasn't even born with a tail. And also was being treated... well like a baby but an earthling one.

He probably was conflicted about the whole baby thing, specially by how he was taught on his saiyan side despite being from the royal family (since the royal family is one of the few that can actually have familial ties similar to humans), and how being now on Earth his perfectly normal for a saiyan actions were taken from an earthling perspective as not being adequate, but he couldn't entertain the thought for too long since the androids were gonna kill everyone if the warning was true anyways.

Vegeta didn't really considered Baby Trunks to be someone he should put any attention to. Although deep down he cared to a degree as in being an extension of his pride and how Trunks was ultimately "representing him" as his son. How that affected his relationship with Bulma too in this time period is important. Like, he seems angry that Bulma tells him that his presence made Trunks cry after his fight 19, and that is quite mean for her to say that to him, but he can't reply anything to her and just tch's and looks away all annoyed but doesn't say anything or fights her on it, so i can imagine he was feeling conflicted about how to act or respond on top of everything that he had to think about.

Pride on Future Trunks and school of hard knocks

Only when he discovered that the mysterious badass warrior from the future was his own son, the one that he was dismissing, then he started to quietly and secretly take pride on who he would become and started to pay attention to both F Trunks (in his own saiyan way) and much later to Baby Trunks because babies are not viewed as important in saiyan culture, still focusing on the battle first. Much like Bardock when he started to have his visions of Goku right at the very end of his life he started to view grown up F Trunks as more of an equal rather than competition, and seeing him grown up made it easier for him to bond. And so Vegs is like ".... Fuck yeah".

"Look at my son, Cell. He's not as cool as me but he's damn close" lol

He of course was also very prideful and wouldn't bother with any family related stuff the way Bulma (and F Trunks) were pressuring him to be, and she kinda was ridiculing him about it (jokingly though, never seriously) just to evidence him and kinda "hit him over the head" for his behavior. And his natural reaction is of course to appear tough in front of everyone else, like Bardock, like King Vegeta, and like his usual self, and throw all that family nonsense out the window. He still was very prideful and had to keep a face, but that is what would come bite him in the ass hard later on.

(look at Krillin's face though. In the latin version Bulma yells here and tells Vegeta "What are you trying to do Vegeta! If you get close with that 'few friends' face Trunks will start crying again like before!", and Krillin looks at Vegeta with a face that says -Dude, she hits you back at home, doesn't she- (that's not funny... but it's kinda funny))

Trunks took the wrong way Vegeta's actions. He wasn't purposefully ignoring him, he didn't had time to bond or make him understand his methods, or teach him spelling everything out for him, at least the way he knew how to do it which is by the saiyan way, which was never going to work the way he remembered it because Trunks is half earthling, and that's something Goku also partially fumbled up with Gohan and his Rage form, but Vegeta was actually trying to teach Trunks the hard way. Vegeta was trying to actually come up with strategies, occupied on bringing solutions to the table that Trunks couldn't come up with for years in just the few days they had. Goku definitely knew it. Trunks is all "my dad has been on that rock for 3 days and he doesn't even look at me or train me" and Goku is like "shit! Vegeta is a Genius! He's trying to find a way to surpass the super saiyan", and Trunks can't understand what's happening while the two pure blood adult saiyans are talking. Like, remember the scene where F Trunks attacked Vegeta? Vegeta was actually trying to parent as a saiyan there, and feeling proud of Trunks before and after Trunks attacked him because he actually did it. He called him stupid and all but it was always accompanied with a lesson he wanted Trunks to learn, even if it was only to make him learn respect Vegeta's place as his father (and Trunks eventually came to respect him despite his shortcomings).

Vegeta and Bulma

Anyway... regarding Vegeta and Bulma though, I love how Vegeta talks to Bulma with such familiarity during the Cell saga (i just wished... the time skips didn't happen so quickly because it would have been excellent for character development outside of battle with small everyday stuff and hijinks...), and it does feel like he recognizes Bulma's intelligence and respects that aspect of her, he calls her by her name (which after 3 years I would hope he does but last time we just hear him call her "woman" so it was nice to hear him call her by her name), but then when Bulma starts to spit toxicity towards him or starts to act like she has her ego through the roof (which funnily enough is very similar to Vegeta himself when he feels confident and with his ego higher than the sky), he just looks like he's thinking "well you just can't find the off button, do you" (lol, it reminds me of home).

It actually reminds me a little bit of how Bulma and Yamcha's relationship was, on and off of Bulma being angry and with Yamcha and re-conciliating again, just this time is with Vegeta, but in Yamcha's relationship he was the one that just got all the (maybe undeserved) anger from Bulma and he didn't really had the balls to confront her because he's Yamcha and he's a nice guy but he doesn't have spice (like he used to as a bandit), while on the other hand with Vegeta is a constant battle for power in the relationship. They both act mean with each other, and even if it's not actually meant to seriously cause harm they can get get hurt and often do simply by the nature of how they relate to each other and communicate, with insults, sarcasm, back handed comments, ironic remarks, double meaning, either is to twist the knife where it hurts or even to be playful and flirt in a friendly manner, is almost never straight forward and i really can't picture them, specially Vegeta, saying that they love each other directly and explicitly but they don't have to. That's just how they are, is their game, because neither of them is willing to back out, they are both asses, though Vegeta is the one that normally does back out in the end in favor of keeping peace because he is the one that has more to loose even if it's by convenience and to keep his access to Capsule Corp and all the commodities at this point, and because he respects and admires Bulma too, he does love her in his own saiyan way and doesn't want to loose that bond he's made with her as the only other person he managed to trust and be open with (the other being Goku). (this scene is priceless and i just wanted to put it here. Is filler but i just don't care, it officially exists and is part of the collective that is DB and is good).

Bulma was ok with Vegeta not being present in their lives and only focusing on her baby, encouraging little Trunks in small ways to start developing some strength. She's always been her own woman after all, independent, confident, intelligent all on her own, always being in the middle of the conflicts since time immemorial to be part of the team too against whatever is menacing Earth. While at the same time is clear that Bulma is proud that her baby is Vegeta's because is a symbol of their deeper connection (and love if you will at this point), aaaaand because of the potential he has as a fighter and the status he gives her among the ones that know who Vegeta is (bragging rights, lol), and also brag about his perfect very cool and handsome son's genes. She was like "yeah Yayirobe, drop the child if you want, but be ware that that child is Vegeta's". (I swear that sometimes I wonder if Vegeta is the one in an abusive relationship full of toxicity, lol, the answer is they both are but flawed as it was it's what they both needed and what worked for them). (and i love this bit where Trunks falls to the ground trying to learn to walk and Bulma looks at him like "i'm not gonna do anything about it, get up on your own". Some of Vegeta is rubbing off on her, hehe).

Trunks was an accident?

About the baby, in a way Bulma and Vegeta, ever since they decided to engage sexually, were aware of the possibility of a child being born from both of them but had already accepted whatever outcome destiny had in it's plans regarding a possible offspring (when before Vegeta was very clearly against it for the fear of having a child that could be stronger than him to usurp his title and place). And to that i want to add that Trunks wasn't really planned by Vegeta in particular (I'm more sure that Bulma might have desired a baby from him after a certain point because she always fantasized with Goku once she saw him all grown up but "lost her chance" as she puts it, and now Vegeta represented another chance to have a badass baby), but that doesn't mean Trunks wasn't expected like many people believe (that Trunks was an accident). Vegeta had agreed with the consequences long before he knew they were pregnant, so no, i don't believe he was an accident as if they didn't thought having a baby wasn't going to eventually happen simply because they were having sex and a baby is to be an expected high chance result, but neither planned exactly. He just naturally happened and that was ok.

They are fine (Trunks is not fine)

Like, both Vegeta and Bulma seem actually pretty ok with the whole thing of being kinda distant kinda separate and on their own at that point while still being together as an official couple. Vegeta concentrating on his own things and not letting anything get in his way, being very saiyan about not letting himself feel (because otherwise his obvious parental instincts when Trunks gets killed and him later accepting his love for Bulma wouldn't make much sense if he actually didn't ultimately cared). Bulma seems pretty ok with putting herself and her child in danger while knowing she still has a job to do to help save the Earth just like Vegeta was doing in a way. Like, during the saga they are actually both working together, Vegeta asking her info on Dr Gero and her looking into her investigation about him in her memory, him asking if she brought the armors he requested for the z fighters and Bulma actually did made them and brought them with her. They are actually working together when it comes to the war against the androds and Vegeta is 100% concentratd on that and his issues while Bulma is enduring and helping as well, growing up from the brat she was into someone more mature but both still with things they need to work on.

The only one that cannot comprehend the dynamic here is Future Trunks. No one else feels it out of place or out of logic because it's Vegeta and it's Bulma. But like, Future Trunks gives too much credit to Vegeta for putting his Baby Trunks self in danger when it's very much Bulma's fault in this particular case. But that is because F Trunks made some high assumptions and probably fantasized with who his father might have been and was hit with the reality that he was not the way he imagined him, so he's putting a lot of expectations on Vegeta that when not met he gets angry but Vegeta is just like "dude i don't have time for this bs". And on the other hand Trunks also didn't knew how his mother was before she had to grow into someone more careful and responsible, so he cannot see his mother's faults because his love for her is blinding him from her wrong doings. (funny thing is that when she had the plane accident no one went to save Bulma either, lol). He has to learn to know his parents because he doesn't know them. Poor Trunks though XD.

////

Ultimately Vegeta changes his attitude during the end of the saga for the sake of both of them, and after having been smacked full force in the face with the realization that he did messed up in multiple ways during the saga after all, with the androids, with Cell, with Trunks too because of his cultural baggage. At the end he's much closer to Bulma and Baby Trunks, having accepted his role as father, not only the type of father Vegeta wanted to be but the father Trunks needed him to be, which still had a lot of room for improvement but it was a start, and he did changed quite a lot. Even caving in with some earthling behaviors for the better. Unnggh! is so beautiful!

[zeevoidlight]

Some Saiyan headcanon shower-thoughts

//////

Do you think pure saiyan hair is more like fur? I mean, between hair and fur there's not really much difference, as far as I understand. The only difference is that hair grows infinitely if not cut or if it doesn't brake, and fur grows to a certain length and stays there. So, Saiyan's hair grows to a certain length and stays there, they get their hair since they are born and doesn't change shape unless cut (is so unruly), to which it grows back again to their length limit and shape, and it looks like it can form clumps much easier too. They only have so much color variety as pure blooded, vast majority black, a couple of dark brown (like king Vegeta), reddish and bluish ones (like Raditz). I would imagine is a bit on the coarse side. They are definitely closer to their primal ancestors than humans at least, so much so that they have tails and can turn into giant apes. Idk, I don't think it would be to strange to think is like fur conceptually.

What if they have a really good sense of smell like Goku in OG Dragon Ball. I know that was because he was supposed to be a wild child from the mountains accustomed to his senses, but whatever, if they can retcon Goku's everything into being a saiyan thing then sure, but I would imagine since they started using scanners they started to, not loose but forget about their other senses. They could still have them there ready to be acknowledged again.

I would add to that the chi sensing, since before scouters it just sounds natural to have some sort of sensing ability, like a sixth sense. That's how I headcanon Vegeta was able to learn it so quickly (outside of being a badass prodigy that can copy abilities just by looking at them and understanding how they function).

What if they had their own language too. Like Namekians, and of course the scouters had their own writing system and numbers that had to be translated by Bulma, so I wonder.

[zeevoidlight]

Namekians technically have genders

or sexes? idk

Dragon class gives birth (makes eggs Birdo style) and heals and does magics.

Warrior class can't give birth but they are fighters and take care of everyone.

I never realized that but yeah

[zeevoidlight]

You got it all wrong. Goku is the one who's gay for Vegeta.

[zeevoidlight]

(Fusion Reborn - Latin Dub)

Goku- Vegeta! are you ok?!

Vegeta- (struggling)...

Goku- ...

Vegeta- Even in the Other World I have to depend on you, Kakarot... (cries) NO!...

Goku- I know it's something irredeemable, Vegeta. Because they didn't took my body away and I keep training arduously in Great Kiosama's planet... Is just natural that there's a great difference between your soul and mine...

Vegeta- I don't need you to console me! I'm not a looser nobody!

Goku- mmh... I knew it. It's impossible to do the fusion. Because you are the Prince of Saiyans, and I know it pains you to hurt your pride.

Vegeta- ...

Goku- It's ok, Vegeta. We have to find another place to take refuge in anyways. Come on, take my arm... Hurry, Vegeta! He doesn't have the patience to wait for us.

Vegeta- Don't you dare touch me!

Goku- ... Vegeta...

Vegeta- ... Kakarot... Alright... do the fusion as you like.... If you keep feeling compassion for me in that case i prefer to...!

...

Goku- Vegeta...

(growing up with this kind of Dub how am i not going to believe that Goku knows Vegeta quite well and cares a lot about him, he does give him his place and respects him :(. And Vegeta ultimately accepts because he notices)

(also the image quality is so bad, holly s)

[zeevoidlight]

what's the deal with these two...

Seriously. Why is the suspicion and joking of their bromance even a thing that exists (outside of just shipping for shipping's sake and ppl making every male friendship a secretly frustrated gay relationship). Is it even a thing?

Do I ship Goku and Vegeta?... yes.. yes I do, I confess myself as part of the problem. But I feel is fair that in a show like Dragon Ball where there's sexually mature references and themes at times I can give myself the freedom to wonder. So i'mmana talk about two pivotal moments that marked a before and after for both of them together as a team: their Majin saga match and the fusion.

//////

As far as the show goes, there's not really much to go off of. They clearly both have their wives whom they both love very much, children, they love to battle and test themselves, they are bros (now at least), rivals for life, they better each other by challenging one another to get better.

On the other hand my autism tells me that that's not the whole story. Because I normally don't like to take things at face value when i can see more.

Is interesting to see how both, Goku's compassion and respect for Vegeta, and Vegeta's (albeit unhealthy) obsession over Goku, the fact that they were also the last of their kind and the only ones that could compete with each other to fight between themselves and against others (discounting Gohan since he always slacked on his training and wasn't really interested on fighting), the only ones that could understand how the other felt as being pure blooded, that Goku had a living example in Vegeta of his true origins to learn more about himself (like a walking Saiyan enciclopedia), that Vegeta had in Goku a new purpose in life (until he realized what he had with his family as well), all of that with time combined to create a dynamic where they both felt comfortable with each other, it made them be naturally closer than the rest of the cast (even if it was in rivalry terms). They famously became companions, with time forming friendship/friendly rivalry and some could even see them now being akin to brothers. Something that as much as Krilin was Goku's life long friend and will be forever he could never really fulfill all that Vegeta came to develop with Goku. And in a way I don't think anyone can either.

But there's also an important note to make about this relationship/friendship. Vegeta is the one that gives it more meaning than Goku does (at first). I feel like Goku is simply being his loving caring happy free self, while Vegeta takes it personal and takes so much weight on what Goku says and does and how it affects him (like Goku is just vibing while Vegeta is oozing jealousy towards Goku). As he later puts in words in Super (Granola arc i think), Goku is an egotist while he himself is an egocentric. And that difference is important to get to the point because from now on for a while the question is "Why does Vegeta".

Why does Vegeta put so much weight in their fight in the Majin Saga that he's willing to kill innocent people again just to have a match with Goku (going with the latin dub again since is more accurate to the original japanese one). And it isn't just about his ego, is about what he doesn't say as well.

Why is Vegeta the only character that is so against fusion, with Goku specifically because he has only fused with him and we don't know how would he react to fusing with someone else if it's needed.

Why is Vegeta so averse to touching Goku. At least after their fight and after him dying in the Majin Saga and once he is allowed to go back to Earth.

Why on the brink of the universe destruction was Vegeta acting like a cheated on girlfriend when he discovered that Goku had a new transformation and didn't told him about it (I would be mad at him too to be fair but i also understand why Goku wouldn't want to do so and he did it to not hurt Vegeta's feelings and have a good time under fair conditions. he gets half a point for the sentiment).

The Majin Saga

From all the examples people like to pull up when trying to argument sexual tension between these two there's only a few that I feel have some significance. And I can tell you when did it cooked enough to be a possibility. And that is right when Goku announced he was going to go back to Earth for one day and one day only, presumably forever. That's where something started, but it was brewing since Goku died to Cell and Vegeta lost Goku, his purpose, his obsession, his will to fight, and entered a depressive episode that lasted 2 years (aprox, since Bulma tells Chichi that Vegeta had been training for the last 5 years in the 7 year time skip). He honestly was a mess of a person right around that time. He couldn't even call himself a warrior under his own standards, he was trying to cope with the fact that he messed up with future Trunks and would have to change with his own present Trunks, he got stuck not being able to prove himself, etc.

Once he knew Goku was coming back he just had to do anything in his power to fight against him again, no matter what it took (he looks so excited too, that's cute). His entire meaning as the person he perceived he was and his meaning as a warrior and Goku's foil depended on it. He actually was in good terms with Goku up to here though (while in the Cell saga he was pretty much amicably antagonizing Goku for the most part, and the other spent feeling jealous). Agreeing to the tournament rules, being patient, enjoying meals together, bragging about his kid. But after realizing that they might not have their match because of Supreme Kio's pink menace, nothing else mattered, not Bulma, not Trunks, not the Earth or the universe or everything he had been building for so many years without Goku. Goku was the single catalyst for his relapse. Like... how is it possible that fighting with him and proving his worth is more important that it's been a rock in his boots for years now. But ok, he's a warrior so I can understand why, also because he was going through a Major (with capital M) identity crisis where he's trying to negate his newfound value in his family and new home while thinking that is what was making him weak, though he never really believed that since he knew Goku never needed to be cruel to surpass him, it was just a jolt reaction to not knowing how to handle it, and Goku could see through that very clearly by asking him if he really believed that bs about feeling good by being cruel and being a slave of his own mind.

But the thing is that during their fight it is clear that more than winning (which he would have enjoy to no end if they finished their fight and Goku didn't had a new plot convenient powerup hiding under his eyebrows again, though that wouldn't have helped him to grow), both were very much enjoying the act of fighting (since Goku said he wanted to end the fight soon so Buu doesn't get the energy but he didn't because he could have used Ssj3 and end it quite fast), Vegeta fighting against his previous rival now a bit more than that, Kakarot. Battling with him in perfect synchrony in an equal fight because what Vegeta actually wanted with the Majin Magic was to close the powergap and convince himself he had an excuse to not feel remorse because of the magic. And i say that because before Goku dying to Cell he really saw him as competition, but after he lost him i feel that alongside his remorse and embarrassment for the disaster that was that saga, in part because of his gigantic ego, he must have felt alone, now truly being the last pure blooded Saiyan alive and not in condition to call himself a warrior anymore under his own standards. And although he had Gohan, which he respected a lot because of his courage and his immense power, it was not the same since Gohan is a pacifist and didn't had the same passion for fighting like a pure blooded Saiyan so he wasn't even training. So by the time of the Majin Saga and once Goku came into the picture again I think he subconsciously regarded him differently and he ends up realizing it during their fight (although he doesn't vocalize it).

During their fight there's a specific moment. After Goku throws Vegeta to a cliff-side and he makes a hole in it to liberate himself with his ki, Goku comes to him and they both get very close just floating in the air and powering up, looking at each other. Vegeta is beyond pissed, Goku taking the fight very seriously. Then Goku smiles to Vegeta challenging him and showing he's enjoying their fight, and Vegeta relaxes for a moment changing his attitude and showing a smile back to him in empathy, sharing to him that he is enjoying it too and wants to challenge him back as well.

This whole fight is Goku's way to show Vegeta how much he actually cares about him and his well being despite what Vegeta might have believed up until then, how much he respects him as a warrior and an equal too, even risking Earth and Majin Buu's return. He did the unthinkable and menaced Kaio Shin with death if he dared to stop their fight, which Vegeta sure noticed and even reacted with complete disbelief. As Supreme Kaiosama says to Gohan and the others in the wasteland: "we cannot do anything about it. Fight until you can calm your hearts", because even Kaio Shin knew that they weren't going to actually kill themselves, they just had to talk (while fighting).

I know a lot of people joke about Vegeta being a repressed homosexual (or technically bisexual because y'know there's Bulma) because of his legendary obsession with Goku, and i'm not saying he is, but this fight is charged with sexual tension, mostly on his part, among other things of course. And is interesting that Vegeta, ever since the Namek experience (which was the first time in his life he was emotionally vulnerable to the point of breaking entirely), is the most emotionally fragile of the bunch and an unstable character. He feels everything very intensely like an open wound, and reacts in the same way while trying to hide under a curtain of pride, ego and his title of Prince (I mean, he's the one that actually openly cries the most out of frustration after Namek, just for starters).

Goku knew what he was getting into by agreeing to fight with Vegeta. He wasn't going to just let them set the score, he was going to give Vegeta the most intense therapy session ever by letting him discharge all that literal energy and anger, guiding him through his thoughts, playing by Vegeta's rules. Help him overcome whatever he had been brewing in his mind since they day they met thinking on where was the moment everything went wrong for years, so he could move forward...

And then... this happens...

... I don't think anyone expected something like this to even be a thing that he could do as a power that we will only see one time ever in the entirety of the show from him and is in here, lol. And not long ago I watched a semi abridged semi analysis commentary video on the fight and yeah, we coincide that there was something else going on here at the same time. Vegeta got a little too excited... He got rock hard by too much adrenaline (or testosterone, endorphins... i know science ok?), lol. And I didn't mentioned it but being that Saiyans were a warrior culture there exists some real life relation of warrior societies (like greeks, romans, spartans, norse, some aztec societies) and homoerotic practices as part of that philosophy and way of life. Fighting is everything and everything revolves around fighting. And finding a brother in arms could develop into something else (call it love or getting physical or whatever) out of admiration, or from hyper-masculinity with the purpose of dominating the other and demonstrating power by physically making every other man your peach and the others are like "wow, a man dominating a man? that's so mainly". And i'm not saying that that was part of Saiyan culture, just that there might be some similarities with what we're seeing.

There's a fine line between pain and pleasure, hate and love, fear and excitement, rivalry and attraction. And in moments of intensity where both opposite feelings collide can produce an equally intense and confusing response. We know for sure Saiyans by nature often confuse fear an excitement, and rivalry with attraction at least, like Goku when he confesses his motives and feelings on his first fight with Vegeta. And here Vegeta is going through a rollercoaster of emotions, and given that he is the most emotionally charged character it can go all places.

So, Vegeta tells Goku if he pretends to defeat him quickly as he said, Goku responds that he's trying to do that, and Vegeta asks if he thinks he can do it *slap slap* (the disrespect). He's trying to provoke him but the way he does it is kinda similar to what you'd do in a sexual encounter since he's not really hurting him too badly (which is really funny). And I'm pretty sure he wasn't thinking about anything sexual, just pure anger towards our buddy Kakarot, that doesn't change the fact that he did just lost his marbles to blind rage and wasn't thinking at all, just feeling intensely and acting freely on it. "Listen... don't you think this is enough humiliation I got from your part *hit hit punch hit*. This attacks are not enough to set the score. How is it possible that a Prince of Saiyans, that possesses such a great pride, was humiliated by a warrior like you (In the English version there's a series of flashbacks with dialogue but that's not a thing in the japanese and latin version so he continues...). What saddens me the most is that you saved my life, worm (he's referring to way back in the saiyan saga when they first met since for a warrior is way worse offense to get their death in battle denied since he now has to suffer all what he's been through for the simple fact of having been spared=being an embarrassment). You deserve to die! I'll break you to pieces right now! I'll start with the arm...".

((You got this guy having Goku in all tied up to a rock, legs spread out, slapping Goku in the face, talking about "not being enough humiliation", and saying "this attacks are not enough", all emotionally charged and intense with his obsession of a rival, high in endorphins and adrenaline, from a warrior culture, that even back in the day I was like OH MY GOOOOD!? What is he going to DO?!!... He wouldn't do it, would he?... The Buu saga was a return to form to OG DB's general feeling and tone, and if it was OG DB this scene would be absolutely interpreted as having that kind of hidden meaning even if nothing would have actually end up happening, though is still a very bold move in terms of sexual themes, just like that scene in OG DB with Bulma and the two RR soldiers. I was sweating cold, that when I heard him say "I'll break you to pieces right now! I'll start with the arm" I was like OH THANK GOODNESS he's just going to mutilate him... NO, WAIT...)) (also, notice that Vegeta is technically fighting a ghost because Goku is already dead).

Unfortunately for Goku though Vegeta didn't share the safe word and he had to free himself so he wasn't actually dismembered by the intensity of Prince Vegeta and they continued their fight, once again Goku leveling the field into a in a less emotionally charged more equal fight all things considered (while also mutually complimenting their fighting prowess). They talk again and Vegeta admits to him that he understands that he's never going to surpass him because Goku is more skilled at fighting, now getting into the real meat of the matter with him and his frustrations.

We get to Vegeta almost breaking in tears again, torn by the realization of his situation confessing all about how he wants to be who he was as a warrior and how he cannot cope with his new life on Earth having all this new feelings for his family and being passive that make him feel like he is not himself. That he wants to be ruthless like before because what the hell is even being anything else, that's a thing of weaklings. Which tells a lot about how he still doesn't know how to function outside of conflict and his deeply rooted self image since childhood. I mean... this kid (Vegeta) doesn't know anything other than living in conflict, constant stress, anger, and feeling in danger all the time before and during Frieza. He was around 31 years old when he could finally be free. And to me it says that it almost feels to him like he's afraid of disappearing as an individual if he cannot go back to being something he recognizes and is familiar with as he doesn't recognize himself being something else underneath of what he's saying. A who that is completely opposite to what he has ever known. Is something some people that had lived through a deeply traumatic upbringing experience. On top of it being a Saiyan it must have been really confusing and difficult because their nature and culture is nothing like that of earthlings, Saiyan's are naturally built to fight, but Goku is the only one that could probably understand that in some capacity as pure blooded Saiyan that managed to adapt to Earth. That's why he is the only person Vegeta can trust with this information, and because Vegeta genuinely trusts him. With no one else he has this level of openness, probably not even with Bulma.

And i love how Goku doesn't give up on him though after everything and he is still willing to listen and help. Without his help here Vegeta wouldn't have confronted and put into words his reality to later internalize it and fully embrace his love for his family, fully embrace his feelings, giving Trunks later his first hug. That was all Goku's doing.

Of course things happened since they were still in the middle of total annihilation at the hands of the strongest pink ball of bubblegum. and from this fight and his explosive sacrifice/ acceptance of his destiny, going forward Vegeta actually starts acting a little different. A lot more relaxed with Kakarot, more open and sincere, more focused on helping than competing, more agreeable (without betraying his character though) and no longer ignoring or being embarrassed of his feelings for his loved ones (like we see when he gets convinced by Goku to do the fusion using Vegeta's love for Bulma). And I'm pretty sure he felt grateful and in debt to him. Not only for his help with unjumbling his feelings during that fight but for everything he's done for him since the day Goku spared his life way back in the day (as we see him asking to Piccolo if he'll get to see Goku in the afterlife just before he sacrifices). A real true honest best friend/rival for life (like we see evident in the movie Fusion Reborn, which is supposed to happen after his sacrifice in an alternate timeline where both Goku and Vegeta die and Gohan is the one that defeats Buu).

Though he still was being a bit stubborn about wanting to fight Buu himself in the anime, but in the manga he just doesn't charge head first into trying to battle him, he just doesn't like the idea of fussing with Kakarot.

Then the fusion thing...

The thing about the fusion is that Vegeta usually never wants to do it because he's embarrassed by the dance (which yeah... that's absolutely fair) but this is not the metamoran one, is the Potara, and they don't need to dance. His usual complains then change to "I just don't like to be fused with him" or "I don't like the idea of uniting bodies with him" when they have to do it later (either in canon or movie, though the "I don't like to use shortcuts to fight" frequently comes as a reason but is always after they already did the fusion). And I don't know how doing a fusion with someone would feel like but the Potara at least has two ways it can go. For the Kaios just one person becomes the main, getting some physical characteristics and power of the other, and the other becomes dormant, just one person gets to be conscious. But for mortals, both actually remain conscious and they both "live" inside the body of each other as one new combined persona who is a combined identity, mixing mentally and physically, sharing memories, thoughts, feelings, everything in unison either the other wants it or not because when they are fused they are cooperating in a single brain so they think the same under this persona even if later they have separate thoughts on the same thing when they un-fuse. One example of how the logic of it is is in the Super Super Hero movie, where right after the battle with Cell Max Gotenks makes a comment to Bulma and she says "that was Trunks, wasn't it?!", and Gotenks panics and they separate, implying that even if it's a combined identity they still are conscious inside separately and can "influence" their thoughts to act more like so or so, like there's a dominant consciousness guiding the other at times. The fusion is even better actually if they are rivals because they get the rival boost. So is not too crazy to think that some would consider it a very intimate act, even more because is permanent (until the retcon), which Goku is so considerate to tell Vegeta at the very last minute and he's like "WTF!" and Goku is just down with it while Vegeta is regretting ever meeting this guy but does it anyways.

And we have seen other characters combine but they don't think much about it, Trunks and Goten specifically just find it fun because they are best friends and just think about having the time of their lives beating up the bad guys. But I think Vegeta specifically does feel like it's something too personal and intimate that requires a lot his will power to do. His concept of it is different for a lot of reasons that all derive from being a very reserved person in general in many aspects, so he is trusting his entire being and accepting opening to Goku here, and to a degree loose control of himself in an give-and-take act, because he is not silly like Goku but under the fusion he is going to be and act silly alongside him because there's no me and you under it, even switch his brain into feeling it's natural. Same with Goku and being more cruel and mock their opponent more even if he usually would feel is something he wouldn't do.

Ultimately and reluctantly Vegeta agrees for the sake of his loved ones and saving his new home, which is wild to me because he does sacrifices everything he is with the fusion being permanent since just a few hours ago he was just accepting himself as an individual. The pressure was really high.

Goku certainly didn't thought much about it though, just another way to become even stronger by cooperating with someone in a new way for the purpose of saving Earth, and simply not loose the battle for the sake of not loosing itself. He considered his options with others purely strategically without thinking what it could mean outside of that for him as an individual in that moment, because he did understood that if he fused with Gohan for example he thought for a moment if that would mean he would have to go to Gohan's school after they win, but in that moment he was definitely panicking for options just to win the battle and then later he could think about the consequences, as always (he was seriously considering fusing with Mr Satan permanently at the lack of strategic options! How desperate and out of your mind can you get!).

Out of all people it was better if it's Vegeta when he detected his ki of course, because the power boost is much greater to save the Earth and he considers him different at this point, someone he likes better as a selfless guy after his valiant sacrifice. He's so excited when Vegeta accepts because it means so much, it's the demonstration to Goku of his turn to an actual good guy, fighting for others and not just himself, and he's so proud. And the result of the fusion is this very playful, sassy confident and cocky warrior that we all know and love because is the best thing ever and I don't have Vegetto favoritism.

But something did changed in both of them after the fusion. I know is an anime only thing for better pacing (at least until Super came and made it a thing again in small ways of its own), but after the fusion thing Goku started to unnecessarily get into Vegeta's personal space more (I mean, I don't think there's anything more intimate than fussing and you'd have to get a level of trust and understanding with that other person like with no one else ever afterwards regardless). Like, I like that when they do the cheek to cheek attack, which again was completely unnecessary, Vegeta feels dirty about it, even muttering to himself "He's an opportunist...(as in like, Goku was sexuality taking advantage of him) I would have preferred the fusion" and Goku asks him is he's finished blasting Buu bits and Vegeta recoils and yells "Don't get close to me!". (In the manga there's not really that much fuss about it when they separate, they just get to work and directly from separating to Buu's brain).

The fusion represents the pinnacle of their growth together as fighting partners (and partners in general). Probably even more than that at this point for how much they share as rivals and how much they understand about each other above any other person, including their own wives in some regards for all they have gone through on things only they can share between themselves like their love for battle.

And if they both were friendly before while still keeping their cards up, now is when they start to act more like brothers and cooperating. Goku with his power and techniques and Vegeta with his strategic planing at the end of the Buu saga. Goku even becomes more playful with Vegeta, even sharing funny moments together. And as pointed out, I believe the fusion made them know the thinking, memories and intentions of the other to a degree.

This is the turning point for Goku as well regarding accepting his heritage as Saiyan. Because from then on he also accepts the values of the Saiyans as warriors (when before he would be more likely against it) and accepts feeling pleasure in having a good fair honorable fight without aid and relying only in his strength and talent just for the thrill he gets of it (much like what he felt as a child/teen), which he demonstrates by breaking the second pair of Potara earrings while Vegeta responds by telling him that he's so proud of him for going into the fight the Saiyan way. Also from then on others start to recognize Goku fully as a Saiyan (so much is the influence Vegeta has had on him that in the Super Broly movie Goku introduces himself to Broly, a fellow Saiyan, as Kakarot first over Goku).

Now, about Vegeta with the fusion, if he wasn't too sure about the fusion first, now every time the fusion is required he almost feels violated by the suggestion (which right before the kid Buu fight he actually didn't mind fusing again and kinda wanted it in the anime while this wasn't in the manga but ok). And of course, if he didn't had much thoughts on getting close and personal with Goku when battling because it meant nothing (like the arm riding in the Saiyan saga and their almost gory bondage session prior), now he recoils from him in certain situations (it... also didn't help that the first time they fuse they went dick first...).

Also also, there's a moment in the manga when Goku is fighting kid Buu in Ssj3 where Vegeta tells Goku that he guessed Goku was fighting overtime because he never intended for Vegeta to have his turn (because if he dies he dies for real), and Goku says that is not that, that he is just looking for an opportunity to reunite his power for at least a minute, and Vegeta gets all tsundere, blushes and says "So... So you weren't doing it to protect me?!..." (lol, well, here's the latin translation but you get the idea)

And onto Super, they made this thing about Goku asking Vegeta to grab his hand in order to instant transmission but Goku knows very well that's not necessary, he could have said to Vegeta to grab his shoulder like others do but he wants him to grab his hand, and Vegeta gets all flustered and nervous every time as if people are going to make fun of him for being gay or something (since we are told by the Pilaf gang that holding hands is very romantic and a sign of being a couple, and something to be embarrassed about, although from a childish perspective of course but this information was set up for the audience when Trunks wanted to hold hands with Mai). Like... Goku, do you have something to share as well?

They later spent 3 years in the hyperbolic chamber at Goku's request... 3 years together just sparing in a void where there's nothing but infinity and them! (At most they had spent not even two weeks of net interaction prior to that in all the years they have known each other, mostly just in times of conflict and as enemies/rivals/competition, and now they'll spend three years doing what they both love to do the most in friendly terms getting to know each other, just the two of them, are you kidding me?!!) which again, it wasn't really necessary because as Vegeta points out that wasn't going to make much of a difference in terms of power because they are at their limit of what their bodies can achieve by just fighting, and three years is a bit too much. And Bulma even got jealous/angry about Vegeta accepting the invitation. I know Goku went around asking a lot of other people the same request before him, but also everyone in the room (well Bulma and Piccolo) suddenly were paying A LOT of attention in that moment he asked Vegeta and what was he going to answer.

And then! They come out like they did? Matching beards? Truly looking like Spartans for real?! I kinda want to wonder how that came to be. A dare? They broke the razor or what. Obviously the implication is that they got so into their fighting that they just forgot basic higiene those last days but like... I don't even have to try...

It's become such a well known thing that there's something going on that even in official material (not canon exactly but official) acknowledges it. Maybe Goku knows something we don't since the fusion happened but it goes a little beyond just a joke from his part XD.

And i haven't talked about it because contrary to Vegeta Goku is very straightforward, but Goku has no shame or filter. He does seem to display asexual tendencies, but he's either oblivious to sexual stuff at times and how it affects others, or does it on purpose because he feels not much about it but does know how it affects others. So that cheek to cheek attack could have been Goku being oblivious, or Vegeta was right and Goku took advantage of the situation to get close to Vegeta on purpose. He's also known since always to not really care about the social conventions of things. He's a good guy, but he's also reckless, impulsive at times, and if he wants something he'll just get it without thinking of what are others going to think about it.

In GT there's actually not too much, they just remain companions and friends for life...(Is just so cute and fulfilling seeing them being like brothers). Vegeta again reminiscing of everything they've gone through and accepting his role in the powerscale and being very freaking cute with Bulma, being such a dad and all. The highlight is the fusion again though, where Vegeta is the one that says he wants to do the fusion "So what have you decided, Kakarot. Are we going to do the fusion or not", to which Goku just laughs and Vegeta is like "what are you laughing at", and Goku responds saying that "I'm not laughing, I just feel happy because is the first time you ask ME to do the fusion", and Vegeta is just averts his eyes and says "I hate you...", lol.

Of course, the bromance tones might be just fanservice (I didn't knew that in shonen is actually very common but if it is that way I'd argue is exactly because of these two since they were the OGs). But either if there's something or not I don't really care much about that. Because as characters I have seen them grow so much and they have learn so much about themselves and each other that them possibly being into each other might as well be just another aspect they allow themselves to explore if they're down with it, with whatever canon or the anime presents us to see and guess, just like they have with their own families, wives, form friendships, discover new feelings, ways of thinking, how they have become stronger and how they have change the people around them, meta speaking as well. Because it does feel natural for them, like it didn't came out of nowhere or out of purely fanservice (which it kind of is but it does make sense). Either they are just friends, honorary brothers or something more I'm happy with who they have become thanks to each other. And the trust they have for each other is what is beautiful to see reflected. I'm so proud of them and what they have achieved. Now they are inseparable as the best duo in history.

And in my conclusions I would say that Vegeta might feel something towards Goku for how much he has helped him and how he has come to admire and respect him in levels unimaginable... in a spartan kinda way if you like and if he ever was down with it. And Goku is just Goku. He loves in a storge kind of way because that's what he does. He knows Vegeta to a T, knows what he needs, and wants him to be happy as well and become the better version of himself, to feel comfortable and feel loved too because he admires him as well, and if he can help him he will do so. Is not really a physical sexual attraction (which doesn't mean it cannot derive on one if you want and as we've seen, specially with Goku) but there IS attraction and love in a different way.

[zeevoidlight]

I think Vegeta was a virgin up until he met Bulma.

I know, what a freaking way to start an argument but blame reddit for asking and leading me to a trail of autism thoughts, and I will also talk about Vegeta's attraction to Bulma and viceversa when they first met. Like, how tho. Albeit from a demisexual perspective (or asexual, idk anymore really). (I saw the latin dub but as I have heard it is very similar to the japanese version but I'll reference the japanese one if i found footage of it).

/////

Some might believe that because of his attitude, his raw power, his Saiyan heritage, his status as conqueror of planets, genocidal maniac, sociopath extraordinare, his military background and his ruthlessness and uncaring nature, Vegeta was raping people left and right, or that he has always been very sexually active, or at least had some experience regarding the matter.

But be honest, he was too dense with everything from his childhood traumas and his vengeance against Frieza to care about having sex, or having a relationship with anyone in any capacity.

Also he is too proud and values his Saiyan heritage too much to give anyone he didn't deem worthy the privilege to have sex with him, let alone risk the possibility of an offspring. At least that's how I see Vegeta being pre Namek and pre dying against Frieza having to confront and accept by force an overwhelming amount of feelings on a rollercoaster for the first time in years. Dude didn't even thought two times to kill Nappa and let Raditz rot instead of reviving him as the last remainings of his people, that's how dense he was prior. He was so proud that he didn't mind to be the only Saiyan left alive and probably preferred it that way. Nappa that one time suggested to him that they could revive the Saiyan race by mixing with earthlings and Nappa was ready to pound (consensual or not) and Vegeta is like "nah, are you crazy? I wouldn't like to have a child being stronger than me". Dude probably had the opportunity to do so some other times but rejected it, he doesn't sound interested at all, first thinking on other things than sex. Added to that the detail that Toriyama was asked and said that Saiyans basically only get together sexually for the purpose of reproduction, is not a necessity for the most part in the same way it is for humans.

Of course he wasn't oblivious to it like Goku though and was well aware because he's not stupid. Outside of the English dub he notices Bulma on Namek and even refers to her as gorgeous, or pretty earthling woman. So I guess he still had a sexual notion but in other ways. He was not innocent of mind is what I'm saying. Like, he must have known what flipping the bird means. Is probably not that he didn't knew what sex was and desired it at some point or joked about it like I guess they'd do in Frieza's army but he was just not interested on acting on it for real at that time.

But then, after Frieza died and everything that happened after his disaster visit to Earth and Namek, after loosing literally everything and having no purpose anymore other than wait and find Goku to best him, and after having realized more of himself in vulnerable ways trying to find some sense of normality in who he perceived he was, here comes Bulma all confident, infatuated and aggressive with him, because of course she like the bad boys (and Vegeta is actually canonically deemed as handsome), and because Vegeta let his guard down for one second and let Bulma be Bulma while he literally couldn't do anything but go along (I suppose Piccoro was the only one that could have fight him if he tried anything). And he already found her attractive too in a way, not only that but she was probably the first woman that wasn't scared of him and even challenged him, treating him as an equal and as just another person, flirting with him openly, living with her and her family as a guest which is a completely different context to what he had been doing to survive his medium. Like, no one really talks about it but he spent 6 months! with her, her family, and like 50 namekians all living together before asking for Goku to "revive", and that time of waiting calmed him down a great deal already.

His interactions with Bulma

So just so happens that now he can think on other things that aren't killing Frieza and escaping his rulership. He had to learn this new types of interactions and how to deal with them in his own way, and that includes how to approach someone that he felt attracted to. Who knows if he had other people he felt that attraction towards, probably, but Bulma is the one that basically said "yeah, I'm down if you want".

The fact that he calls her "vulgar" when she first flirted with him says a lot of how he would not engage with just anyone because of his pride as a prince and a Saiyan, and how she probably was the first to even flirt with him openly. How he says she is "loud" and called her "woman" also says that he was more likely annoyed by the idea of women as gender like it often happens, belittling them and all. While on the other hand Bulma constantly challenged him on it once they got to Earth, forcing him to address the topic as we see several times, being strong against him. Like (again I'm going with the Latin version since I've heard is more accurate to the japanese version), Bulma says to him "and what about you, small one", and he's like "what?!... She called me small one?..." (in japanese she just calls him Vegeta-kun, like a pet name), he was not willing to dignify the provocation huffing to Bulma's invitation after but didn't menace her nor got aggressive or sarcastic like he would with someone else. But then she said "I'm going to give you a lot of food. Bet you eat as much as Goku, am I wrong? haha!... But I'm not going to allow you fall in love with me even if you find me very attractive", and is in this moment where you can see Vegeta's wtf face entering panic mode resorting to insult her under his breath as if she could see through him. Is right here where you see that he doesn't really know how to react to someone flirting and is debating between bursting in anger or run away but just ends up paralyzed because his ego won't let him move. (in japanese he reacts by muttering "what a vulgar woman! and how loud she is (being)!")

Then they go to Bulma's house and Vegeta just tags along. It seems that going through Namek with the earthlings, helping each other and cooperating like his life depended on it was an experience for a lifetime. My man can't seem to get a rest from one wft after the other since he arrived to Earth because the next thing that happens is that Bulma's mother comes to him faster than light startling him and says "[]...I imagine you must be Bulma's boyfriend. You ARE charming. And it looks like you are trendy". And the only thing he can muster to reply back is "t-trendy?" (I find it funny that that's what he reacted to and not to being called Bulma's boyfriend XD)

Vegeta's disinterest and rejection is part of why I think Bulma was interested on him. Because the interactions Bulma has had with men in general throughout the entirety of the series have been... very poor to say the least. Men want take advantage of Bulma in one way or another but more often than not sexually (I mean just being in Roshi's general vicinity is more than enough for anyone), or they see her as a "thing" for themselves, a trophy. (this one bellow was so terribly stressful, my god...)

And Bulma's approach to men is a similar as well because she is clearly very superficial too and that has remained a constant since day one. (jesus, bulma)

And Vegeta wasn't interested on taking her like that, on the contrary he pushed her away despite being interested (which I bet Bulma knew or at least expected because of her own ego), and also he had greater objectives he wanted to pursue. Focused (on surpassing Goku...), determined, and that was the difference. He doesn't seem like the type of guy that would try to get an opportunity to peek through the shower window seeking to get a glimpse of her like we have seen others do (although, Bulma did saw him through the shower doors), or disrespect her in any physical way. Far from it, his reactions with her are getting all nervous, speechless, flustered, he follows her (because in a way he does respect her character and leadership), aggressively rejecting her at the same time (trying to negate his feelings to go back to the status quo), calling her names, and Bulma isn't taking none of that because she doesn't believe that bs he's spouting and she knows he likes her (like, who wouldn't, as she probably tells herself), even plays with it sarcastically and either brushes it off or dares him to say it again. And I can see why is she so insistent too, because she also likes him.

He lets her get close to him but cautiously (the comparison to a stray cat is not too farfetched). He knows what Bulma wants but just now he has found someone that confronts him about it without fear or shame, he has now the mental space to think about it and needs to respond to it somehow, he is interested back too, he IS aroused by her as well. When he arrives to Bulma's house from his search in space and Yamcha and him are al tense with each other, Bulma arrives and says all calmly "Calm down, boys. Why don't you let him take a shower first?", she touches him and says "C'mon. You have to take a shower because you are VERY dirty" *finger movent, "Come. It's this way". That flinch he does when she touches him while going into fight or flight mode again, and the famous sexy finger movement on Bulma's part that completely seeks to throw him off and serve as a sexual invitation that he quietly accepts (even before she yells at him to stop gawking and not let a damiselle wait) by being passive and following her lead to the surprise of everyone in the scene.

I mean, I'm not the most versed person regarding this (as you can probably see) but It's happened to me where someone gives me something they have to hand me, and they let their hand stay a little longer than usual, or unnecessarily caress your palm with their fingers or nails with the intention for you to notice the unusual movement and tingly sensation as a way of flirting and invite you to sexy time. So I see this the first time and i'm like "Bulma?... ~what is this?~ I see your game" while remembering the first time someone did that to me so clearly. People think that because it's some people's first time you'll be all awkward and won't know how to be sexy too, specially being an older virgin person which would be Vegeta's case, but nah, you just gotta be confident and say "fuck it, I want this too and will give you a good time as well". It is how I picture Vegeta, ultimately knowing his value (also ultimately accepting something for himself after loosing everything on Namek) and enjoying himself as well (like, "serving himself with the bigger spoon" as they say) once they got there when he had to take a decision and answer Bulma's provocations.

(Also, I never totally understood why Bulma's mom was spilling the tea in the background at that moment but I suspected it was because it meant to signify Vegeta and Bulma were "cooking" and very into each other, and not just her being careless and aloof tho using that as a way to convey it).

Every time they in a scene she's measuring him with every interaction they have from the moment they got back to Earth onward, to see how far he's willing to allow her go, and hitting him with another wtf reaction every now and then to trow him off. Even going as far as put him in ridiculous and assert HER dominance. Because is not that he couldn't have just blasted everyone away with every step but little by little both were forming a connection. The scene of the pink shirt, after Vegeta gets offended by the style she says "If you don't want them you can walk around nude"... D: (his pikachu face was better than mine though, and then he says "damn, she's very rude"). I mean... is there anything more clear than that.

And then she sees him and says "You really look good like that...". Not only that but when Vegeta senses Frieza arriving he gets mad, insults Yamcha for doubting his ability to sense Frieza's chi, they're about to fight each other and Bulma is cooking some meat and is like "Vegeta, if you want to use the sauce I have it here", and everyone, specially Vegeta, is visibly confused and he doesn't know how to respond, the scene is left unanswered. But Bulma is pushing to see if Vegeta can be gentle and mannered.

(side note: Trunks says that after his arrival Yamcha was going to be unfaithful to Bulma but no man, That's what future Bulma told him but is more likely that it was her the one that left him for Vegeta that day, way before Trunks arrived. Even on Namek she already was over him, thinking of Goku and how she lost her train with him, then with Zarbon, and finally Vegeta (she also had a picture of Yamcha in her little camp in Namek full of darts to his face, so...). Yamcha never really had Bulma, and he didn't do much to get her back either or change. Truth is Bulma is the crazy one). And then when Frieza arrives to Earth Bulma arrives at the scene too and explains that since she couldn't see Frieza in Namek she wanted to see him here to see how strong he really was, and Vegeta says "not only she's rude but aggressive/daring too..." In this very soft thoughtful tone and talking to himself, like... C'mon dude! Accept that you like her!

And then then! when everyone is going towards Frieza's ship, Bulma is the one who yells "Wait, Vegeta! take me with you! Remember who hosts you!" (is that how you say it? dar alguien hospedaje?). Yamcha is completely out of her picture.

We see the next time the most obvious episode where the love tones are more present, Vegeta's training montage after the news of the androids, and his accident with the gravity chamber, but by then it was just confirmation of all the signs from before. So when we see Bulma with baby Trunks it doesn't really come out of nowhere and you understand how and why.

While I find Super's tsundere Vegeta in some instances fun to watch, more with him and Goku to be honest, but I don't think Z Vegeta was taking it in such a juvenile way, he's more adult and mature still about the situation, as mature as someone calling a girl "woman" to assert dominance that is. The flirting "dance" towards their sexual encounter is more silent and elegant, just like two adults would do so. He wants to get closer but the only thing the dude has known his entire life is fighting and being on offense mode all the time while at the same time having to hide. Their dynamic is quite interesting and quite amazing, not for nothing they are considered to be one of if not the best couple in anime, and trying to unravel how it all started is really fun.

But yeah, As I see it and if we could compare Vegeta's sexuality to something from real life he, as most saiyans, was probably demi-sexual (yay), since it's said that Saiyan's don't understand romance and they likely only had sex to reproduce. They didn't had the concept of family outside of the royal family. And that's why also Vegeta is one of the few saiyans that later could develop an understanding of family and being in a relationship in a way other saiyans don't, including Goku.

So yeah, that's my terminally online post of the day. Nothing but Dragon ball and Vegeta on my mind lately.

I would like to get into analyzing Goku and Vegeta's sexuality soon too. It's so interesting as well because is not traditional.