#Churn Reduction

[powerexec]

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[marketxcel]

The Ultimate Customer Value Optimization Guide

Unlock the secrets to maximizing customer value with our comprehensive guide. Learn proven strategies to enhance customer satisfaction, boost retention, and drive business growth. Discover the key to long-term success in the competitive market.

[precallai]

The Ultimate Way to Reduce Churn with Voice AI

INTRODUCTION

Customer churn is the silent killer of business growth. While companies spend countless resources acquiring new customers, they often overlook the goldmine sitting right in front of them: retaining existing ones. The statistics are sobering – acquiring a new customer costs 5-25 times more than retaining an existing one, yet the average company loses 23% of its customers annually.

Enter Voice AI – the game-changing technology that's revolutionizing how businesses reduce churn with voice AI solutions. This isn't just another tech trend; it's a strategic imperative that's helping companies slash churn rates by up to 60% while dramatically improving customer satisfaction.

Why Traditional Customer Retention Fails

Before diving into how to reduce churn with voice AI, it's crucial to understand why traditional retention strategies fall short. Most businesses rely on reactive approaches – sending emails after customers cancel, offering discounts when it's too late, or implementing lengthy surveys that customers rarely complete.

The fundamental problem? These methods lack the personal touch and immediate response that modern customers expect. In today's fast-paced world, customers want instant solutions, not delayed responses or generic automated messages.

How Voice AI Transforms Customer Retention

Voice AI represents a paradigm shift in customer engagement. Unlike traditional chatbots or email campaigns, voice AI creates natural, human-like conversations that can identify customer frustration, address concerns proactively, and provide personalized solutions in real-time.

The technology works by analyzing voice patterns, emotional cues, and conversation context to understand customer sentiment. This deep understanding allows businesses to intervene before customers reach the point of cancellation, making it possible to reduce churn with voice AI more effectively than ever before.

 The Science Behind Voice AI and Churn Reduction

Research shows that 70% of customers who receive proactive outreach stay with their service provider, compared to only 30% who receive reactive support. Voice AI amplifies this effect by:

Emotional Intelligence: Advanced algorithms detect frustration, confusion, or dissatisfaction in a customer's voice

Predictive Analytics: Machine learning identifies patterns that indicate potential churn before it happens

Personalized Responses: AI tailors conversations based on individual customer history and preferences

24/7 Availability: Customers receive immediate support regardless of time zones or business hours

Modern voice AI platforms like PreCallAI leverage these capabilities to create seamless customer experiences that build loyalty rather than frustration.

7 Proven Strategies to Reduce Churn with Voice AI

1. Proactive Customer Health Monitoring

Instead of waiting for customers to complain, voice AI continuously monitors customer interactions and engagement patterns. When the system detects declining usage or negative sentiment, it automatically initiates a personalized outreach call.

For example, if a SaaS customer hasn't logged in for two weeks, the AI can call to check if they're experiencing any challenges and offer targeted assistance. This proactive approach has helped companies reduce churn with voice AI by addressing issues before they escalate.

2. Instant Issue Resolution

Voice AI excels at handling routine inquiries and technical issues instantly. Rather than forcing customers to navigate complex phone menus or wait for email responses, they receive immediate, accurate solutions through natural conversation.

This immediate gratification significantly improves customer satisfaction and reduces the likelihood of churn due to poor service experiences.

3. Personalized Retention Conversations

When voice AI identifies a customer at risk of churning, it can initiate personalized retention conversations. The AI draws from the customer's complete history – previous purchases, support interactions, preferences – to craft compelling reasons to stay.

These aren't generic retention scripts but dynamic conversations that adapt based on the customer's responses and emotional state.

4. Seamless Escalation to Human Agents

While voice AI handles most interactions autonomously, it knows when to escalate complex issues to human agents. The transition is seamless, with the AI providing complete context to the human agent, ensuring customers never have to repeat their concerns.

This hybrid approach combines AI efficiency with human empathy, creating optimal conditions to reduce churn with voice AI while maintaining the personal touch customers value.

5. Feedback Collection and Analysis

Voice AI makes feedback collection natural and conversational. Instead of sending surveys that customers ignore, the AI can ask for feedback during support calls and analyze responses in real-time.

This continuous feedback loop helps businesses identify systemic issues that contribute to churn and address them proactively.

6. Onboarding and Education

Many customers churn because they never fully understand how to use a product or service. Voice AI can provide personalized onboarding experiences, walking new customers through features and answering questions in real-time.

This educational approach reduces early-stage churn while increasing customer lifetime value.

7. Win-Back Campaigns

For customers who have already churned, voice AI can execute sophisticated win-back campaigns. The AI analyzes why customers left and crafts personalized messages addressing their specific concerns, often achieving win-back rates of 15-30%.

Measuring Success: Key Metrics That Matter

To effectively reduce churn with voice AI, businesses must track the right metrics:

Churn Rate: The percentage of customers who cancel within a specific timeframe

Customer Satisfaction Score (CSAT): Direct feedback on interaction quality

Net Promoter Score (NPS): Likelihood of customers recommending your service

First Call Resolution: Percentage of issues resolved in the first interaction

Average Handle Time: Efficiency of voice AI interactions

Customer Lifetime Value: Long-term revenue impact of retention efforts

Implementation Best Practices

Successfully implementing voice AI for churn reduction requires careful planning:

Start with Clear Objectives: Define specific churn reduction goals and success metrics before implementation.

Choose the Right Platform: Select a voice AI solution that integrates with your existing systems and can scale with your business. Platforms like PreCallAI offer comprehensive solutions designed for rapid deployment and measurable results.

Train Your AI: Provide comprehensive training data that reflects your customer base and common scenarios.

Test and Iterate: Continuously monitor performance and refine your voice AI's responses based on customer feedback and outcomes.

Maintain Human Oversight: While AI handles routine tasks, ensure human agents remain available for complex situations.

The Future of Customer Retention

As voice AI technology continues to evolve, its ability to reduce churn with voice AI will only improve. Future developments include enhanced emotional intelligence, multilingual support, and deeper integration with business intelligence platforms.

Companies that embrace voice AI for customer retention today will have a significant competitive advantage tomorrow. The technology doesn't just reduce churn – it transforms customer relationships, creating loyalty that withstands competitive pressure and market changes.

Conclusion

The ultimate way to reduce churn with voice AI isn't about replacing human interaction – it's about enhancing it. By leveraging AI's analytical capabilities and 24/7 availability while maintaining the empathy and creativity that only humans provide, businesses can create retention strategies that truly work.

The companies winning in customer retention aren't those with the best products or lowest prices – they're the ones providing the most responsive, personalized, and valuable customer experiences. Voice AI makes this level of service scalable and affordable for business.

[univiresque]

with an hour before the final critique i have finished my final print for printmaking...

[scribeofmorpheus]

Why Dragon Age Veilguard isn't a "Cathedral"

Concept art by Matt Rhodes

"To disinherit the storylines of past games goes directly against the notion of building cathedrals."

What is inherent with Veilguard that keeps bothering me is the fact that the world's choices truly didn't matter--and it doesn't simply bother me from a player perspective, it's not simply a grievance borne of frustration to what I (as a longtime fan) have lost. It's about the very culture of the arts under capitalism's new media habituation cycle [x][x].

Yes, I spent hours of my life playing and replaying each instalment of Dragon Age. Yes, I painstakingly curated a 'canon' world state by replaying what came before in preparation for Veilguard. Yes, I am even more unsatisfied with the end product--time hasn't helped, it's just widened the divide. But, and I can't stress this enough, these very personal gripes aren't what hit home the most. It's the inherent disregard of legacy. A legacy that the previous writers and game developers were building towards.

In the DAV artbook, "cathedral" is the word used to describe the process of making a game. Matt Rhodes' exact words are: "One artist can make a painting, but it takes a team to build a cathedral." Cathedrals took centuries to build. The architect who drafted the first blueprints would likely never see his work realised, he had to rely on those who came after him, like-minded and passionate, to see it through--for the culture, for the future, for legacy. Painters took on several apprentices for this reason too--giant frescoes were not completed by one man's hand, even if it is one man's name that immortalises them. Similarly, if you weave a narrative around choice, what good does it do to take it away at the final act if not to fall to caricature?

To disinherit the storylines of past games goes directly against the notion of building cathedrals.

Late-stage capitalism and profit-margin-obsessed game producers forcing developers to churn out meager content, to make a known brand into something it's not, to chase a fad or a popular trend... o, how reductive and cliche you've been forced to become Bioware. We have lost the cultural thought patterns relative to Cathedrals. We know only of barn-raised churches--done in a day but unlikely to last the turn of the seasons.

And don't even get me started on the music of Veilguard either. From Origins to World of Warcraft to Everquest to Baldur's Gate to Dungeon Siege, you can hear the intricate interconnected weave of sounds inspired by the Dungeons and Dragons-esque fantasy genre. You hear it in the repeated use of certain instruments, in the harmonic weeping notes of a bard-like singer or the foreboding echoes of drums as if of war. In tavern songs. But then, rather than hire someone who loves these worlds and this genre, who is a hungry artist looking to make a name, a legacy if you will, for themselves with a spectacular score, you hire any already sated composer, one well-into the encroaching years of career fatigue, whose notes repeat in countless projects, who feels less concise and more uninterested with each new project. One who has long since cemented his legacy. Someone in it for a paycheck and nothing else! And, to top it off, you let him compose something so minimalist? I am offended actually.

Cathedrals! We should have witnessed the final tile being placed on the Dragon Age cathedral. Instead, some architects walked up, tore down the interior and installed IKEA furniture and called it authentic before having to call the previous architects to come and fix the "load-bearing issues", forcing them to rush and add a coat of varnish and a few 'aged' details for authenticity.

[ariichive]

LONG AWAITED

anaxa returns to the city of okhema with one goal in mind.

yan!anaxa x gen. neutral reader.

tw: slight yandere, 3.1 main story quest spoilers, kidnapping kinda, not proofread :'), phainon appearance

⋆⁺｡˚⋆˙‧₊☽ ◯ ☾₊‧˙⋆˚｡⁺⋆

the air of okhema felt unidealistic as anaxa quickly turned away from the white haired chrysos heir, who's eyes held admiration and a hint of nervousness. anaxa could not blame phainon for being on edge, after all it's been some time since he's traveled far from the grove of epiphany; the tension with aglaea only intensifying.

phainon wasn't just worried about anaxa's distaste towards the dressmaster, but the fact a certain beauty happened to reside in okehma; one anaxa had a growing obsession with that aglaea had informed him about.

the scent of earth and lingering incense clung to the air as anaxa strode ahead, his pace brisk despite the weight of his thoughts. phainon hesitated before following, his fingers ghosting over the embroidery of his sleeves—a nervous habit he'd never quite shaken. the streets of okhema were alive, yet there was an undercurrent of unease threading through the revelry, as if the city itself was holding its breath.

"...professor anaxa, with all due respect, you should probably go rest." phainon said nervously as he watched the annoyance grow on the professor's face he didn't put any effort in to hide. anaxa brought a hand up to his head, already feeling his headache increasing.

"still as unrelenting as ever," anaxa said more to himself than phainon (who knew not take that as a compliment).

phainon shifted on his feet, uneasy under the weight of anaxa’s sharp gaze. the professor’s silence was rarely comforting; it carried the weight of words unspoken, of conclusions already drawn and judgments already made.

“if you keep straining yourself like this, your mind will falter before your body does,” phainon tried again, forcing his voice to remain even. “and considering how much you pride yourself on your intellect, i imagine that would be a rather devastating blow.”

anaxa exhaled through his nose, a slow, deliberate gesture that conveyed both irritation and restraint. “you assume exhaustion is a state that can be remedied by mere rest. a rather reductive view.” his fingers pressed against his temple, as if attempting to physically restrain the inevitable onslaught of thoughts. “the mind does not cease simply because the body demands reprieve. if anything, it accelerates in retaliation. an unfortunate contradiction of existence. now then, i must be on my way. more time spent here entwined in aglaea's threads is less time spent with my [name]."

“if something happens—”

anaxa halted, turning just enough to glance at phainon from over his shoulder.

“then it will be because i allowed it.”

and with that, he disappeared into the crowd, leaving phainon standing there, uncertain if those words were meant to be reassuring or a quiet promise of inevitability.

anaxa moved through the streets of okhema with a purpose, his every step measured, his every breath steady. the air here was thick with incense and candle smoke, curling through the alleyways in a way that made the city feel almost dreamlike. he ignored the idle chatter of merchants, the distant hum of music, the eyes that lingered on him longer than necessary.

his destination was clear.

past the winding streets, through the stone archways laced with ivy, beyond the courtyards filled with marble statues of nameless gods.

his mind churned through the possibilities of the night—outcomes, variables, countermeasures.

but then, as he neared the threshold of that familiar estate, he felt something tighten in his chest.

a presence.

not phainon. not aglaea.

you.

his fingers curled slightly.

the moment he stepped inside, he would no longer be professor anaxa, the ever-stoic scholar with a mind sharpened like a blade.

no, within these walls, he was something else entirely. something raw. something that could not be defined.

nothing about the outside of your residence has changed in the slightest. your same favorite greenery blooming by your door, the half broken pillar you have yet to fix, and even the familar sense of longing deep in anaxa's heart.

you were in there. goodness, how long has he deprived himself of your beauty?

with an almost shaking hand and a crazed smile, anaxa's hand slowly made its way to knock. one swift, sharp, knock.

the sound echoed in the still air, sharp and deliberate. anaxa’s fingers lingered against the wood for a fraction longer than necessary before he pulled back, exhaling through his nose in a measured attempt to steady himself.

he had rehearsed this moment in his mind countless times—constructed dialogues, crafted perfect syllables, envisioned every possible reaction you could give him. but now, standing here with his heart drumming an unsteady rhythm against his ribs, he found himself at war with something far less logical.

and when the door creaked open, revealing you—bathed in the glow of sunlight, as breathtaking as ever—he felt it.

that intoxicating, maddening sense of possession.

how could he have ever let himself stay away?

meanwhile, you were in utmost shock seeing the familiar face of an old friend standing outside your door. "anaxa!" you were quick to take his hand and pull him inside. "y-you're okay," your eyes were quick to scan over his body for injuries.

you heard about the bustling news around okhema, the fall of many at the grove of epiphany by the newly announced flame reaver. with the news of no survivors being found, you were immensely relieved to see anaxa.

anaxa allowed himself to be pulled inside, though his expression remained unreadable, save for the flicker of something unreadable—relief, amusement, or something far more dangerous—when he felt your hands on his.

“of course, i’m okay,” he murmured, tilting his head slightly as he watched you scan him for injuries. “you underestimate my ability to persevere.”

but there was something strange in the way he spoke. something distant.

the warmth of your concern should have soothed him, but instead, it only deepened the ache inside him. you were still the same—soft, caring, unguarded in your worry for him. and he?

he still had this dark desire within him.

you, however, seemed oblivious to the turmoil beneath his carefully composed exterior. you cupped his face gently, your thumb grazing the sharp line of his jaw. “you’re burning up,” you whispered, concern lacing your voice.

anaxa let out a breathless chuckle, a sound devoid of humor. if only you knew.

“it’s nothing,” he dismissed, though he didn’t pull away. “simply the remnants of a journey longer than intended.”

your frown deepened. “you should rest. whatever happened at the grove… it must have been—”

his hand shot up, fingers wrapping around your wrist—not harshly, but with enough force to halt your words. his grip was steady, calculated, yet there was something almost desperate in the way he held you.

his thumb brushed idly over your pulse, feeling the steady rhythm beneath his fingertips. a scholar by nature, anaxa had spent years studying patterns, deciphering truths from the subtlest details. and right now, your heartbeat told him everything—your worry, your hesitance, your trust.

trust.

his jaw clenched. did he still deserve it?

slowly, as if realizing the intensity of his own actions, anaxa loosened his grip, allowing his hand to drift away. “forgive me,” he murmured, his voice softer now, yet no less heavy. “it seems exhaustion makes a tyrant of me.”

you didn’t move for a moment, your eyes searching his, looking for something—an answer, perhaps, or reassurance.

maybe it was cerces playing a trick on him for his lack of belief in the gods. her former yearning for mnestia seeping through into him, enhancing his already deep need for you.

he took a slow, deliberate step closer, as though drawn by an invisible force, his presence closing the space between you without any words spoken. his eyes searched yours with an intensity that bordered on desperation, yet his expression remained calm, composed, almost as if he were fighting against something larger than himself.

“do you feel it too?” he asked, his voice a quiet rasp.

feel what? you wanted to ask. the tension in the air, the pull of something darker than you understood.

but instead, your breath hitched, something shifting within you as you stood there, uncertain whether to pull away or step closer. you couldn’t tear your eyes from his—this man, your old friend, your anaxa—but now, the person standing before you felt like something different altogether.

and suddenly, the truth was clear in the depth of his gaze.

he wasn’t here because of what had happened at the grove. he wasn’t here for the tragedy.

he was here for you.

and he wasn't going to leave without you.

“[name], you feel it too right? the gods won’t be here to save you either.”

[cjrae]

Do Not Feed The Trolls

So, with the Season 2 midpoint of Apothecary Diaries in our rear view mirror, I would first like to welcome all the anime-onlys who now understand why the rest of the fandom breaks into laughter every time the word "frog" appears.

Second, as is inevitable when anything popular goes to a wider audience, there comes a segment of the viewing populace who out and out dislike segments of the story.

Some of them simply were hoping the story would go a different direction.

Some of them are applying legitimate critiques to the material.

And some of them are out and out trolls.

You know the ones I'm talking about. The ones who look at a relationship with imbalanced power dynamics, scream, "Ew, A Toxic Relationship!" and immediately start lambasting anyone in the fandom who doesn't fall into line with their obviously "ethical" stance with no regard for for plot, characterization or theme.

These people are trolls, so here is your reminder. Please do not feed the trolls.

There is no benefit to trying to discuss the material with them, because this is not actually about Apothecary Diaries (or any other fandom, for that matter). They are making these broad, sweeping arguments in bad faith and when others attempt to argue, they apply shaming tactics to shut down discussion. Fall in line, or be labeled 'toxic' yourself.

These are the same bad faith arguments that lead to analysis such as "Beauty and the Beast is a story about Stockholm syndrome" or "Cinderella is a story about waiting for a prince to come and rescue a helpless girl." (And others, but these are the two examples that come immediately to mind). They rely on a very shallow interpretation of the source material and combine it with a veneer of social commentary.

But this has nothing to do with virtue. This is purity culture. This is about control. Specifically, it is about control over what people are "allowed" to enjoy. If the relationship does not act as a morality tale, then it is "problematic" and must be destroyed.

Trying to control others is the root of toxic behavior. In other words, they are telling on themselves.

Some of them can and will figure this out and eventually move on to more nuanced discussion about the issues they genuinely care about. But there are plenty of trolls out there who thrive on the attention they get when they toss a reductive, overly simplified moral argument into a sea of fans (especially if it involves any type of shipping) and bask in the churn as people who are enjoying the material feel like they need to defend themselves or the characters they've come to care about.

The only winning move is not to play.

[veeveenoceda]

my thoughts on daeho in season 3 of squid game (major spoilers)

thinking about how fucked it was that they handled dae-ho's character the way they did in season 3. maybe this is a hot take, but if you want to establish an antagonist they cant just become evil in like one episode. dae-ho is a character that supported the cast and contributed a lot to the story througout the show, him being used to further gi-hun's arc was fucked. dae-ho was meant to provide some?? introspection for gi-hun on his actions, and even such, killing him immediately was defeating the half-baked purpose they attempted.

erasing dae-ho's character from season 2 also pmo. we have established a strong character, and by ripping away core elements of it in favor of deception is CRAZY to me. how are we just going to say he's NOT a marine? where is the claim in this evidence, squid games? he could have faked a tattoo, sure, but given how he acted in season two, it makes NO logical sense for him not to be (this I could rant on about for ages). it completly strips away the complexity and beauty of the season two finale, and makes it feel cheap and shallow. this also churns dae-ho's character into a flat 1-dimentional version of himself, meaning that if you rewatch his actions in season 2, no more are they tied into a deeper sense of belonging and understanding that he never got in his father, moreso an endless chase for gi-hun.

yes, dae-ho wanted to fit in. this is not his only trait. he is strong, independent, emotional, and had a lot of complexity to himself and the way his backstory shaped his actions, dialogue and the world around him. to say that fitting in was his only motivation was an awful reduction of his character. to supress him to that in season three fucked me beyond belief.

i think mainly, it took away how it felt to struggle. dae-ho was real, and understandable character. dae-ho had seen major hardships, traumas, and pain. it caused him to seek comfort in others, the way a normal person would. it caused him to seek conformity, to seek refuge in others, to seek an end to his past by burying it in the games. to say that those elements of him never existed made no sense. I watched him struggle on screen with my own eyes. to erase his struggles physically hurt me. in favor of what? story progression? gi-hun's introspection? shock appeal?

trust me I think people notice when your character acts and is treated very differently by the cast from the finale of one season to the beginning of another.

how I mostly felt was that the vibe of his character quickly went from "this beautiful nuanced character is desperately pushing himself to the limits because of past events that happened to him (which are cited multiple times in the season) which causes his inevitable break in a scenario he was fighting to keep afloat in, leading to the inevitable downfall of the rebellion not on only his part, but the parts of others as well. this highlights the cast's lowlights, and shines a view on gi-hun's weaknesses as well, showing how quick he is to jump into something with little to no regard for consequences, which makes gi-hun's actions more understandable in the games as well through dae-ho's. dae-ho's character also highlights the instability and person by person dependency the games cause themselves, and the realistic expectations of what is to come in the aftermath, while not showing he is weak for failure, only that he is human." to "LMAO >< DAEHO SUCKSSS,, LUH BOI GOT SCARED BOI TS PMOO WHAT THE GURT OH BTW HES EVIL >< BOIS EVIL AND HATES GIHUN >< LMAOOO THE GURT"

i think that really shows how shallow and depriving the season is. it set the tone for how we can strip away nuance in favor of palitabilty. everyone wants a villain and a hero, why not strip someone of their core and force that role onto them? why take the time to set something up when shock appeal is all that matters?

dae-ho deserved better in season 3.

[centrally-unplanned]

This was a good thread walking through the probably most "forward thinking" decent DOGE/OMB EO, generally outlining hard caps on hiring, demands for staff reductions, and veto power assigned to DOGE on new hires.

My thoughts generally are you should be skeptical of the things like "you must fire 4 people for every 1 hire" or calls to lay off mass parts of the workforce. They add all the weaselwords you would expect like "assuming they are not statutorily required" but, shocker, most of them are. These organizations do in fact have to do the jobs Congress set out for them and do not have a lot of filler around that. They have their stupid stuff, don't get me wrong - you may have heard of the filing of government employee retirements by hand in a mine - but those typically exist because of congressional requirements! (Like this one, which had two separate digitization attempts that failed due to compliance issues).

Now ofc there is this whole "how much will they ignore Congress & the courts", and that is gonna happen I am betting, but it isn't gonna be total. They just aren't targeting all that much, and in particular don't have any coherent "small government" philosophy to implement. The Admin wants a larger government on net. Again, you will see the contractors vs permanent staff thing, I agree you will lose permanent employees to be replaced by companies. But that is pretty small bore (and almost certainly a net decline in efficiency and increase in costs)

The much bigger point is giving DOGE veto power over every hire, even at the professional level. That is new, something previous admins did not do, and I think is the real point of this effort as I have mentioned. They want to churn the staff to create a new cadre of government officers with a new ideology. You can see it in other articles for example that groups like the Heritage Foundation have a list of ~50,000 pre-vetted hires for these slots. Thus I think this is the load-bearing part of what this plan is aiming to achieve.

Though they will also do efficiency improvements and such, every admin does and by ignoring some compliance requirements you definitely can cut some fat. I bet they will throw a few things through Congress too, Congress is terribly slow but it does pass the occasional bill. Things are more than one thing after all.

[genericpuff]

With LO being done, a mass layoff apparently happening recently, and high profile creators like that of Bugtopia bailing from them, do you think Webtoons is gonna last much longer?

So I had heard about the layoff through the grapevine (as in, pals that I know who are aware of the situation) but honestly, I don't think this is the end of Webtoons as an app... I think this is definitely an end of a version of Webtoons that we were all familiar with as both creators and readers. I've been noticing this shift over the past couple years and now it seems to be coming to a head, a status quo shift from Webtoons being an earnest "anyone can find success with us" community of readers and indie creators to just another enshittified corporate platform that's only interested in churning out content to keep up its bottom line.

Before I continue, obligatory reminder that I am not an Originals creator, just a former Canvas creator and avid webcomic reader. None of this post is to accuse Webtoons of foul play or spread misinformation, these are simply my opinions based on my own experiences with the app and its staff, research that I've done into Webtoons' practices and history as a company, and firsthand + secondhand accounts of experiences on the backend from various Originals creators who have willingly spoken up on the matter. Take the following dissection and rant about Webtoons with mountains of salt.

The biggest sign of this shift I've seen has definitely gotta be the reduction of greenlit Canvas series in favor of imported Korean series. Now I will say there was a time that there genuinely were too many greenlit series, back when they used to do their launch weeks, and I think scaling that back isn't necessarily a bad thing to prevent oversaturation, but oversaturation is still very much happening, it's just through imported series now.

Though I will say a counter argument to this is that Webtoons' own audience has a habit of believing that EVERY piece of work needs to be read and kept up with. This is surely a side effect of Webtoons going from being a smaller platform with only a few select Originals series to suddenly launching hundreds more over the course of the last couple years, there WAS a time you could genuinely keep up with most of the series on the platform if you wanted, but now that's no longer possible, and while some would argue that's a flaw, I'd argue that greenlighting so many series isn't necessarily an invitation for you to read them all, it's just to buff up their library with more choices for those who are more particular about what they read. Do you enjoy isekai but don't like the one about the girl being reborn into her favorite medieval romance book? Well there are 50 other isekais set in medieval times for you to choose from.

That said, the ratio of greenlit Canvas series : Korean imports definitely feels like it's skewed more towards the latter over the past couple years, as we're now seeing them simply opt to import and translate series from their Naver platform. Some people don't really care or notice the difference, and there's certainly lots to be said about the popularity of many Korean works, but many other readers are now feeling iced out by the platform's sudden shift in art styles and storytelling tropes because Korean webtoons and manwhas do generally aim for a different audience than what a lot of veteran Webtoon users are used to. Plus from the creator side of things, it's undoubtedly making the playing grounds feel uneven where greenlit Canvas series now have to compete with the webtoons from overseas that are made in studios with teams of people and seem to also be paid far better than what NA creators are being paid. Webtoons already severely limits what series they choose to advertise and that's only gotten worse over the years with the ongoing oversaturation of the app's library.

That's only regarding quantity though, as there's surely lots to be said about how a lot of the higher quality stories are ones here made in North America, and a lot of that I feel has to do with the benefit of them being comics written in English by people who natively speak English. Unlike Korean manwha/webtoons, they don't have to go through the process of translation and localization which can unfortunately cause an otherwise well written manwha to lose its subtleties and specific writing choices due to rushed or poor translating (people who read scanlations of manga and manwha or who even just watch dubbed vs. subbed anime can certainly attest to this.)

With all that in mind, my own personal theory (*again, this is my opinion and tinfoil hat suspicions, not fact) is that Webtoons/Naver has essentially been outsourcing to North America to build up their app through titles like Lore Olympus, and now that that audience has been built, they seem to be bringing in their Korean series to benefit off that audience while reducing the amount of NA Canvas series they greenlight, particularly their most popular genres like Romance, Fantasy, and Action. How much they'll benefit, I can't say for certain, considering this is a company that has been operating in the red for years and IIRC they even practically admit to this in their IPO proposal (it's actually really funny to read if you're familiar with legal jargon and Webtoons as a company)

Fact of the matter though is that despite Webtoons building up that audience through legacy NA titles, they seem to have forgotten one fundamental thing - most of the people in that audience just don't seem to be interested in the content they're now trying to sell. Credit where credit is due, the aggressive marketing campaign surrounding Lore Olympus for the last 5 years did a great job at pulling in new people to the app, many of whom never read webtoons before. In all its flaws, Lore Olympus is very beginner friendly for people who are new to Webtoons, with guilty pleasure romance writing that a lot of NA readers enjoy nowadays and an art style that was very unique at the time.

But out of all those people who were attracted to the app through series like LO, how many do you think are reading Korean manwha? I don't have the numbers to back up this argument 🧂🧂🧂 but I personally doubt it's very many if all the complaints about Webtoons becoming 'samey' over the years is anything to go off of (right alongside the complaints of LO being marketed way too much lmao)

So no, I don't think Webtoons as a company is going anywhere. They've made it this long operating at a loss, mostly in part to their parent company Naver injecting them with funds (and for anyone unaware, Naver is essentially the Google of Korea, they're a massive tech company that owns Webtoons as a separate venture, not too different from Google owning Youtube in a sense) and now they're turning to public funding.

I do think Webtoons as we know it is dying and changing, for better and for worse however you may define it, and regardless of which way it goes, it's going to come with the consequential shift in both audience and creators that such a transformation brings. I was there when it happened to Tapas, I was there when it happened to DeviantArt, and now we're seeing it in real time with Webtoons all over again. Whether or not they rise from the ashes reborn anew or simply fester like a dying animal, that remains to be seen, but considering this is the same company that's currently exploiting and underpaying creators to keep their bottom line afloat, developing AI tools, and running an app that's held together with staples and glue and doesn't even have tagging implemented, I'm not holding my breath for the best case scenario. The company and its app may live on but the Webtoons that we knew for years is long gone and may never return again.

And that's my many cents on that.

[veganagenda]

a thought (or rather, a series of them): even in the event that the human diet did require we consume animal meat in order to survive, the goal would still be to figure out the absolute minimum amount of meat we would need to procure in order to sustain ourselves, and hence to design our society in a way that we could consciously regulate our consumption, and to maintain and equalize those levels across time.

why is that? because as highly conscious beings living as part of an ecosystem, and in particular, one with a developed ability to influence our ecosystem at a level that is grossly exaggerated and far supersedes our co-habitants, our duty would still be to optimize our sustenance processes in a way that neutralizes and minimizes harm to the other living beings that we live in connection to, as well as sustains a harmonic relationship with them. this should be relatively obvious to us by this point.

however, we are not the only beings with a right to continued life and existence, to cause harm to others to keep ourselves alive. we only began considering ourselves above this truth in recent history, and our superior power over animals depends almost solely on machinery and weaponry technology, which need equally radical transformation for sustainable human existence.

our duty henceforth, naturally, would obviously be to pursue the most ethical and painless methods of procuring meat as possible - and, as is rarely discussed in manners of "welfarism", methods that are fair to the animals, and give them a sporting chance to escape us, or even fight back against us humans for their own survival, too. hence, any discussions of "welfarism" would be all but meaningless unless a) liberated and b) truly equitable conditions were consciously cultivated for our animal companions.

and why is that? simply put, because any system in which animals are a) enslaved, imprisoned, or have their freedom of motion externally limited by a significantly more physically powerful species, or b) culturally and legally treated as objects that can be owned, processed, and turned into products that generate a profit for a business, is a system that already creates the fundamental conditions for which animal abuse occurs in and stems directly from - an insurmountable power imbalance, and an exploitative, self-serving mindset.

but, here's the thing: no one who currently believes eating meat is necessary for human survival currently cares about pursuing any of this as a goal. to my knowledge, there are no hardcore "obligate carnist" truther activists out there - not organizing, educating nor protesting - nor demanding politicians act in favour of rapid and radical reductions to the scale of these industries, industries that pump billions of animal bodies into factory farms and churn out billions of consumable flesh products.

as it stands, the only people calling for urgent action to swiftly transform our methods of obtaining food into ones that would stand even a chance at mitigating the already apocalyptic ecological destruction and harm to all life on Earth that animal agriculture is currently responsible for, are the ones who are ready to accept the possibility that we must promptly abandon meat consumption and convert to a plant based nutrition system in order to save our home planet and liberate animals.

most of the carnist people who do agree that our current methods are failing and that change is necessary, seem perfectly content to wait around for a perfect world with a perfect meat-obtaining system to arrive, someday in the perfect inconceivable future, hence making almost no changes to their diets or lifestyles in the meantime.

perhaps they monitor themselves to a degree, or pat themselves on the back for "only having meat sometimes," but it is almost certainly not in their political interests to advocate for industry reduction or radical transformation. they do not seem to consider it with any passion whatsoever, and most are so fragile and uncomfortable around the subject that they either desperately evade its discussion, mock its frivolity, or simply defend the industry altogether.

and why, then, is that? in large part, it is because in the modern era, we take meat for granted: meat, which for the majority of recorded human history has been a symbol of excessive wealth and status, is so unimaginably normalized in our culture, that most of us hardly even remember that only a number of decades ago, back in the 90's, social commentators were ringing alarms about the spreading globalization of the fast food industry, and expressing concern for the fact that members of the middle class (and even some of the lower) being able having meat as part of every daily meal was becoming both possible and acceptable.

meat which, for a short period of time (and yet already far too long), has been obtained through the heinous subjucation, violence and slaughter of animals that we are kept intentionally physically blind to and emotionally distant from.

it is because of our entitlement, our cognitive dissonance, our deep-seated, comfortable complacency in the wake of this unfolding ethical and environmental disaster, our complacency in the face of ecological crisis and animal suffering beyond any scale of human comprehension. our complacency, ultimately, as the collective beneficiaries of en-masse animal enslavement and exploitation, and as members of the oppressing class in a rigid hierarchy of species that we ourselves have artificially constructed.

and until social consciousness evolves to the degree that we are equally willing to confront this complacency - without fragility, resorting to mockery, or defense of the status quo - absolutely no meaningful conversations about the possibility of our continued consumption of meat can be taken in good faith. at this point in time, radical activism in the name of total and immediate animal liberation is the only movement that has the best interests of the people, the animals, and the Earth in mind.

[valyrfia]

People don't hate ferrarihive (thearchercore) because she vanishes what haha. they hate her ass because her posts are cringe as fuck and make Charles look like an idiot that everything he achieves is ONLY because of Max or only has to do with Max. Or she treats him like this fictional dude that only manages to do things because and for Max only and it's I fear common sense some lecfosi are gonna find that awkward and not, that cool? maybe. which like you said, they're free to block and move on. But you know, twitter is the place for haterism so if it gets negative opinions, well there's freedom on that too. Im not saying she deserves the hate but she can't possibly act shocked or confused about why the hate is coming. Like do you guys read yourselves? Almost 90% things posted make Charles look like an idiot which is not that deep since you're not exactly in charge of the pr and image of the guy (thank god for that). But you know, that will get fans with some sort of need to defend him, because that's almost the point of being a fan, defend and support, you know?

You asked me if I was reading my own posts, well I have to say, are you listening to yourself? Not only do you think the place to discuss this is in askboxes of two people who consider her a close friend, but what has she does to offend you? Exactly?

As far as I can see, all she does is make silly little edits that she has loads of fun making (for FREE mind you), and posts it on the internet. She's not at all like her two evil triplets @tsarinablogs and I who actively engage in discourse, she's literally just having fun with her fandom space by ONLY posting on two sites and then curating her community beyond belief here because (not to doxx her but) she's an extremely intelligent, extremely hardworking, and extremely employed woman with a job and a full adult life and THIS is her hobby to relax and have fun! Are you REALLY going to bitch and moan about it because....other people happen to like this content that she's making? Which is ultimately a tiny fraction of the F1 related content churned out daily? And is produced for her own enjoyment and anyone else's happiness is an unexpected bonus? It's reductive, it's pointless, and I'm actually going to fully point my finger at you and say it's mean. J'accuse.

"twitter is the place for haterism" no it's the place for awful insane groupthink which gains traction because it's the kind of content which keeps you on that screen selling your precious time and energy to advertisers and El*n M*sk. Also, I'm going to be blunt, love Charles, that's my driver and my blorbo and Forza Ferrari and he is the second coming and all the rest, but that multi-millionaire rich white man with extremely questionable morals does not need you defending his honour and integrity past "his driving on track is hot" and "he said what he said about the opposing team". THAT is defending and supporting as a fan. It is NOT choosing to bitch about people just doing their own thing for their own enjoyment on the internet! Please, I say this with all the care I can muster, touch some grass.

[justicegundam82]

3.5 to PF1e Conversion: Waterveiled Assassin

Welcome back! This is a conversion I've honestly been eager to do someday.

Back in the good old 3.5 days, there was this evil god, Tharizdun, who was basically like a previous version of Rovagug, in that it just wanted to wreck everything and had suckered the four evil Archomentals (Ogremoch, Yan-C-Bin, Imix and Olhydra) into working for his agenda. Each evil Archomental had some favored avatars for carrying out their will, which were appropriately called Avatars of Elemental Evil.

Since I liked those creatures well enough, and I thought they can easily be incorporated in the Golarion setting with only a few changes... I'd like to try my hand at converting them, starting with the Waterveiled Assassin. Enjoy, and please let me know what you think and where I can improve!

WATERVEILED ASSASSIN

Image (c) Wizards of the Coast, from Monster Manual IV, author Daarken

Before you stands a monstrous, vaguely serpentine shape made of water, with hateful eyes and a mouth turned into a wicked sneer barely visible in what passes for its face.

WATERVEILED ASSASSIN       CR 15

XP 51’200

NE Large Outsider (elemental, evil, extraplanar, water)

Init +12; Senses darkvision 60 ft., Perception +22

DEFENSE

AC 28, touch 17, flat-footed 20 (+8 Dex, +11 natural, -1 size)

hp 225 (18d10+126); fast healing 5

Fort +18, Ref +19, Will +12

Damage Reduction 10 / -; Immune elemental traits

OFFENSE

Speed 30 ft., swim 60 ft.

Melee 2 slams +25 (4d8+8 plus grab)

Space 10 ft.; Reach 20 ft.

Special Attacks churn, drench, engulf (DC 27, 4d8+12), grab, water mastery

STATISTICS

Str 26, Dex 27, Con 24, Int 10, Wis 19, Cha 15

Base Atk +18; CMB +27 (+31 grab); CMD 45

Feats Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Engulf Revulsion, Great Cleave, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lunge, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Stealth), Vital Strike

Skills Acrobatics +22, Bluff +16, Intimidate +16, Knowledge (planes) +16, Perception +22, Sense Motive +20, Stealth +32, Swim +36

Languages Aquan

Special Qualities liquid body, malleable form, one with water

ECOLOGY

Environment any (Elemental Plane of Water)

Organization solitary

Treasure standard

SPECIAL ABILITIES

Churn (Ex): As a swift action, a waterveiled assassin can batter opponents it has engulfed with mighty currents that it creates by controlling its own shape. All creatures currently engulfed within the waterveiled assassin’s body take 4d8+12 points of bludgeoning damage as the currents try to tear their bodies apart. A successful Fortitude saving throw (DC 27) halves the damage taken. The save DC is Strength-based.

Drench (Ex): The waterveiled assassin's touch puts out nonmagical flames of Large size or smaller. The creature can dispel magical fire it touches as dispel magic (caster level 15th).

Liquid Body (Ex): A waterveiled assassin exercises supreme control over its watery form, allowing it to flow around attacks, flatten itself against the ground to avoid a spell’s blast, and so forth. Any effect or spell that allows a Reflex save for half damage has a 50% chance to have no effect on a waterveiled assassin. Even if it is affected, the waterveiled assassin can still attempt a saving throw against the spell’s effect as normal. This ability also gives the waterveiled assassin a greater reach on its melee attacks, effectively increasing its natural reach to 20 ft.

Malleable Form (Ex): A waterveiled assassin’s control overits form allows it to flow through tiny cracks in objectsand move through the earth, walls, and other obstacles.The assassin moves at normal speed through terrainthat slows movement. It can move through permeable objects at half speed, but it cannot move through completely solid barriers, such as those produced by a wall of stone or wall of force spell.

If a waterveiled assassin ends its movement completely within an object, opponents do not have line of sight or line of effect to it. Its reach drops to 0 feet. Any creatures engulfed within the assassin automatically break free of the grapple and fall prone in a square adjacent to the object. If only part of the assassin is in an object, but its remaining space cannot hold all the creatures within it, the assassin may choose which ones to release.

One With Water (Ex): A waterveiled assassin that is completely immersed in a volume of water that’s at least 15 ft. wide, 15 ft. long and 15 ft. deep is effectively invisible, as per the greater invisibility spell.

Water Mastery (Ex): A waterveiled assassin gains a +1 bonus on attack and melee damage rolls if both it and its opponent are touching water. If the opponent or the waterveiled assassin is touching the ground, the assassin takes a –4 penalty on attack and melee damage rolls. These modifiers also apply to bull rush and overrun maneuvers, whether the assassin is initiating or resisting these kinds of attacks.

A waterveiled assassin is a creature of living water sent by Kelizandri, the evil Elemental Lord of Water, to slay his cult’s enemies. This deadly killer can flow through the smallest cracks to ambush and engulf foes, and its fluid form and mastery of water lets it strike at opponents from unexpected angles.

The waterveiled assassin is a canny hunter, making use of terrain advantage and of all their special abilities to surprise foes and dispatch them quickly. A waterveiled assassin has no use for a fair fight; it usually approaches its target in open water, taking advantage of its invisibility, or hides within a wall or a large non-waterproof object that can contain its bulk. When its target closes, the waterveiled assassin surges forth, rolling over its foe and trying to drown him or batter him to death in its liquid body. A waterveiled assassin usually focuses on the least armored foes, knowing they are more likely to be arcane spellcasters or to have dangerous abilities, and drags them off to an isolated spot for the kill.

If a waterveiled assassin has a weakness, it is overconfidence – an assassin might leap on a party’s wizard or sorcerer while disregarding physically capable combatants, and giving them the chance to heap severe punishment upon the elemental.

A waterveiled assassin’s form is unstable, but it usually stands about 12 feet tall and weighs 1'000 pounds.

[dertaglichedan]

Biden push for $10B electric mail delivery fleet flops with just 250 trucks built in two years

WASHINGTON — A Biden administration plan to create a “green” fleet of postal vehicles has churned out a mere 250 electric mail trucks in just over two years — after shelling out taxpayer funds meant to build thousands — leaving Republicans raging at the multibillion-dollar “boondoggle.”

The nearly $10 billion project — which called for more than 35,000 battery-powered US Postal Service (USPS) vehicles to be completed by September 2028 — was funded in part by $3 billion in funding from former President Joe Biden’s 2022 Inflation Reduction Act.

As of this month, the project is well behind schedule despite taxpayers forking over $1.7 billion — prompting Capitol Hill Republicans to try to rescind the remaining nearly $1.3 billion earmarked from the IRA.

[thesassymarquess]

Factorio’s Module Problem

I’ve been thinking about this for a while, and it’s been an issue that’s bugged me arguably from the day I started playing Factorio. It’s the Efficiency Module. Specifically Efficiency Modules 2 & 3.

I’ve been thinking about this in no small part due to the fact in my MP save, we decided that each planet should specialize in their respective modules, and as the Gleba player that means I’m in charge of 2 modules, Productivity on Nauvis & Efficiency on Gleba. I’ve got both set up churning out a decent number of them, and upcycling the lower quality ones, at least for Prod mods, I’m waiting on a shipment of quality modules to start it on Gleba.

Which brings me to my issue. I don’t really like efficiency modules, I never have, and as the player with the most experience, my group follows my lead in this kinda thing.

When I first started playing Factorio, I believe the modules had only just been added an update or two ago, and I didn’t frequently use them. I tried with all three, and ended up sticking to Prods & Efficiency modules at first. But then I realized I didn’t care about pollution, so efficiency modules were only good at saving power, and I could just scale that up and ignore the pollution still. This was before nuclear OR flamethrowers, so my defenses were entirely laser turrets and solar. I’d just expand my solar grid since I cleared a large space & scale up.

I took a much longer time to warm up to the speed module, having to do the math and learn that while it increases the power cost to run the machine, the time saved reduces the electricity cost per item… from that moment on I was a believer in the Prod/Speed combo, especially after I saw how compact a Prod 3/Speed 3 Furnace stack was.

This left me only ever making efficiency modules for power armor. I did recognize the pollution reducing benefits of the module, but once you unlock flamethrowers and set them up as defenses, I found pollution management to be irrelevant. Flamethrowers will take care of even behemoths decently enough without any space science research, and by the time they show up (I actually hadn’t seen a behemoth before playing Space Age, and I’ve beaten the game a few times) I’ve already established all the sciences available in the base game.

So ultimately I find their usage… lackluster. But it gets worse, because it’s not just their usage I have to consider that they’re competing for a module slot. And that’s against a Speed & a Prod mod and both are good. Let alone in the base game, I can make the competing modules for the same price, so I usually have to consider which to craft before I’m even at that point.

But I should amend that I think the Efficiency Module 1 is actually good. When it comes into the game it provides a decent power reduction, is fairly cheap, and most players don’t have bases ready to handle the downsides of the other 2 modules.

So now with that out of the way, I’ll mention how they fair in Space Age: Poorly. Ironically despite the fact that the T3 mods have different costs now and the T3 Efficiency mod is the cheapest now (taking 10 spoilage in addition to the standard 5 blue, 5 red, and 4 of the T2 module), it still doesn’t hold up well. Like the Speed/Prod combo is broken because now it’s more viable to look at either Quality only, Prod/Quality, or Speed/Quality, and I think this is awesome that it isn’t straightforward what modules to combine and how anymore, but… efficiency is rarely the answer now. It still shines in reducing pollution on Nauvis, has a new role in reducing nutrient consumption on Gleba, and the power reduction can still be useful in a few places, but… 4/5 planets have power production mostly unchained from their pollution mechanic (Gleba pollution comes from farming mostly, very little is needed to produce significant power) and the last place is Space, which is a great place for the t1 modules, but… T2 & T3 you’re likely to be looking at foundries if it’s going to Aquilo & you’ll need nuclear or better anyways at that point, so power is less an issue than making sure it’s fast enough for ammo production, which… puts another win to speed modules here, because they’re better for churning out more in a smaller area, which is what you want there. Yeah, you do want to reduce power usage, but if you’ve got a reactor you’ve got 5.8 MW of power per turbine to play with, and a minimum of 40MW of heat too. This gets worse if you use quality reactors OR Fusion reactors, as the power density increases a LOT. The smallest fusion reactor build puts out 50 MW of power.

So… the real reason for this post though, is this. I felt something was off in the scaling of the efficiency module, and I realized what it is. It scales differently from all the other modules, which (with one exception) scale all the same.

Prod mods go 4% to 6% to 10% (1, 1.5, 2.5)

Speed mods go 20% to 30% to 50% (1, 1.5, 2.5)

Quality mods go 1% to 2% to 2.5% (1, 2, 2.5)

So those three (with the exception of the Quality 2 mod) all scale the EXACT same for their upside.

Efficiency mods go 30% to 40% to 50% (1, 1.33, 1.66)

If they followed the same ratio, Efficiency mods would have either 30% -> 45% -> 75% or 30% -> 60% -> 75%. Which might be enough to justify making them. Even that though… I’m not sure if it’s enough, as they STILL have to compete against the other mods because there’s only so many slots, and power is one of the easier things to scale up, rather than mines or a build itself.

I just wish there was MORE of a reason to use the T2/T3 efficiency modules. They’re basically useless as far as I can tell since they’re weak and by the time you get them, they help with a downside that’s much easier to just deal with instead.

[taehyungfirst]

IMO, most things are fan service. They are k-pop idols talking on platforms built and maintained to speak to fans. And they are doing that, not just because they want to and enjoy it (though I think that is true to varying degrees) but because they want to make/keep fans happy. Now, each one makes choices about how/when to connect with fans.

Do I think JM leans into the JK bit? Sure. But honestly the last chat felt more like just wanting to join in and not having much to say. More more broadly....besides being his actual life right now, I think it reflects how he defines his role as idol and his choices for fan service. He's more private/guarded than JK or Tae -- all/most of his lives are from the company and during promotions. His interactions have more of a professional obligation/gratitude feel IMO. His posts during the military have a "I really should send a letter home and let them know how I'm doing" vibe. He radiates best son energy.

The problem for some fans is JM is behaving the way they accused Tae, when they were trying to dismiss him as "fan service king". And to add insult to injury -- it was always used to paint their dynamic as one-sided because JK didn't mention him. (Except that he did). But now we have JM mentioning JK and JK staying relatively quiet. But, ruhroh, now there is the gym pic and the giggle chat and they are worried about what that means for the post-discharge dynamics. Which they shouldn't because BH is a predictable capitalist hive mind and they are going to churn out all the content. Cue the buddy system merch drop. But also they are real people going through a real thing and making choices in real time how they talk about it.

A lot of this centers on this big fear that came out of solo era -- who/what JK chooses vs what BH chooses for JK. (I don't think a business decision should be seen as a reflection of a relationship). Personally, I find this annoying because it feels like JK has all the agency and Tae and JM are just waiting to be chosen. And lame and reductive generally but particularly annoying when it come to Tae engaging with and creating so many fascinating things and sending them out in the world.

Just my two cents on a slow Sunday...

I agree that they /all/ do fanservice because they are kpop idols at the end of the day, but I also think that some interactions (not just between members) are more authentic than others. The way they interact with fans, for example.

The company already chose the duo they are pushing so you don’t have to think about Tae having anything to do with those embarrassing plans.

The problem with jokers or peejm (basically the same thing) is that they spent most of it saying Tae this and Tae that just for him to never namedrop someone and their fav to do all the namedropping, they’re disappointed that the fave acts the way they hate.