#and personal interpretation of course

[moonstruckdraws]

I wanna ramble about how I interpret Aphrodite's early life for a bit. Based on what I know anyway since I'm making her new design right now-

I prefer the Ouranos birth (because it's cooler) and her relations to water both with mortals and her childhood (technically adulthood..?). I also like that Eros is already with her in the sea. Just her lil baby. Anyway, I know she's born a grown woman like Athena is, but for fun I like to think she rises to Olympus as a grown woman. Let me explain:

I still think she was born at least like a late teen/young woman versus Eros that starts off as a baby. She spends her early life just in the sea, eventually coming into contact with Nerites. Her first love that I think gave off the vibes of young/first love of high school sweethearts. I partly headcanon that she maybe acted as a minor water goddess before falling in love with Nerites, blooming into her major domains of love and beauty. Anyway, after Nerites refuses Aphrodite's offer to go to Olympus when summoned (and turns him into a shellfish- and give the wings she offers Eros-) that's when she emerges.

You'll also have to forgive me that I don't have any Erotes knowledge- trust me when I say that's like the next on my list

Anyway, as she joins Olympus, she is aligned with her attendants like the Charities that clothed her. The newly added goddess makes quick friends with the Charities, specifically Antheia (my hc that they are best friends-).

The whole thing with how Aphrodite married Hephaestus is such a mess of what could have verses what might have happened and it's too much of a headache for me to speak fully on. But I do think people make how they got together/their marriage much worse than it probably was, as I interpret it as a marriage just not working out -> lead to Aphrodite's infidelity -> net incident -> divorce -> both of them getting back at each other. Honestly for it to be apart of Hephaestus's myth more than hers (yet it takes over Hephaestus's whole story in recent times) is a lil sad to me.

Honestly, I think the most fun one is that Aphrodite's beauty causes wars between the gods. It just makes sense to me with her domains and shows just how strong she is from how much an effect she has on people. And so Zeus arranges her hand to be with Hephaestus to ward off the feuds. Though I can't find that version anywhere... to where I think it's just another telephone retelling (but if it isn't please let me know- because I am probably just blind fr)

I like to interpret that neither desired the other before their marriage, like they weren't on each other's radar for whatever the reason, though Hephaestus would be drawn by her beauty like any other before Zeus has them arranged. While Aphrodite maybe started having bits of interest in a few gods, like Ares, but not enough to marry any of them. I honestly don't think they had that bad of a marriage, just not an outstanding one. Maybe they both tried at first but just stopped putting as much effort (stopped as in mainly Aphrodite). I see it more like when a person just isn't interested, and that isn't a bad thing, while the other is trying to make it work, which also isn't bad. But Aphrodite started to indulge in the pleasure of other gods, gods that caught her eye before being married (like Dionysus, Ares, etc) which threw more wrenches in a collapsing marriage.

Honestly, I don't think Ares became more prominent in Aphrodite's eyes until the myth when he visits Hephaestus' forge and makes fun of Eros's spear while Aphrodite is also assisting Hephaestus in there. I think she'd end up laughing at Ares' struggle to lift the weapon, drawing his gaze to her -> losing focus -> maybe pricks himself with the spear? and falls in love with her

Then the affair, yadda yadda, net incident, reasonable anger, blah blah, they're both let out the chains and run away. That's as far as I plan to go as the rest of the myths can be placed about anywhere in whatever seems plausible. Aka I don't feel like doing it because there's no set timeline. (I guess her getting with Poseidon after the divorce? but other than that I'd say it doesn't matter, to me anyway).

I just felt the need to ramble how I think her early life went down for my own sake. Because I never write my thoughts down and then I forget them-

This may become a normal thing...... yeah.. yeah probably

[valtsv]

something i think about a lot and don't see discussed often in the silt verses are the narrative foils and parallels shared by the saint electric and VAL, particularly when it comes to their respective endings. a woman sacrificing her humanity in flames and undergoing apotheosis, elevated not merely to sainthood but ascended to godhood, and losing the entirety of herself in the process, becoming a product to be traded and sold, and a woman who sacrificed her humanity to be made into a commodity, a "valuable" weapon, finally rejecting her attempts to claim that same godhood in favour of reclaiming her personhood in a similarly fiery death. the peninsulan propaganda machine's greatest triumph, and its most damning defeat. the beginning and the ending of the same tragic story.

[porrigens]

raison d’etre + sushi = profit

[loredrinker]

Could Solas Kill Inky in Place of Varric?

I saw a poll making the rounds days ago asking the age-old question: could Solas have killed the Inquisitor if they, rather than Varric, had approached him during the ritual? I voted no - and now I’m driven to explain why.

I’m not claiming any kind of authority here. Fandom discourse can be sensitive (especially around headcanons), so let’s just agree this is one interpretation among many. And no, this isn’t denial or wishful thinking (though I’m sure some will roll their eyes). I’ve tried to keep this grounded in what the games present and build a case based on narrative structure, context and character logic.

I’m also not saying Solas couldn’t ever harm the Inquisitor. Under the right conditions, it’s possible. But the question is would he have done so in that moment - at the ritual site, in Varric’s place? And for me, the answer is no. Based on where Solas is emotionally and narratively at that point, I don’t believe that outcome fits. 

This post focuses on a Friend and Romanced Inquisitor - those the story frames as emotionally significant to Solas. (I’ll address the low-approval path at the end.)

For this, I want to start with the progression of Solas’ relationship with the Inquisitor as shaped by the events of the games and supporting material. (And of course, the prerequisite disclaimer: these are just my thoughts and interpretations.)

Apologies, it's a bit long.

Emotional Bonds: Solas’ Relationship with the Inquisitor

In Inquisition, Trespasser and Veilguard, we see Solas emotionally compromised by his bond with the Inquisitor - whether friend or lover - through a series of consistent narrative beats.

With a high-approval friend Inquisitor, the connection is built on deep respect. Solas says, “You show a wisdom I have not seen since… since my deepest journeys into the ancient memories of the Fade,” and adds, “It means that I respect you deeply, Inquisitor.” That word - deeply - is important. Solas doesn’t offer praise lightly, and considering what we know of his guarded nature and history, that line should be read as significant.

After Trespasser, he refers to revealing his plans as a “moment of weakness” (The Dread Wolf Take You), yet chooses to confess anyway because part of him wants the Inquisitor to know. When he meets with Charter, it's because he's learned the Inquisition is involved and knowingly risks exposure by appearing in person. And his message: "Tell the Inquisitor I’m sorry" in a faltering voice further underscores that the Inquisitor has a sort of hold on him.

He admits to Rook that during his rebellion, it took him centuries to build bonds with others - but within the Inquisition, he formed bonds within a year. This is yet another beat that tells us that what happened during the Inquisition was exceptional to Solas - it had immediacy, intimacy, and impact.

Strong evidence of the unique role of the Inquisitor comes from the romance path. Solas prepares to reveal everything but retreats in fear. Yet even after ending the relationship, the connection lingers through multiple narrative beats: dream visits, refers to never forgetting her, his letter, cherishing their time more than his victories. The Crestwood scene is most telling: “You are unique... I never expected to find someone who could draw my attention from the Fade. You have become important to me, more important than I could have imagined.” For Solas, the Fade is his sanctuary - where he finds clarity, control, and truth. That a romanced Inquisitor could pull his focus from it is the narrative explicitly telling the player they disorient him. Their emotional gravity is strong enough to draw him away from the only place he’s ever truly longed for. That’s why he runs. So when players ask whether he would have reacted the same way to a romanced Inquisitor at the ritual site as he did to Varric, I feel that dialogue reveals a lot. If they could pull his attention away from the Fade, then it stands to reason they could break his focus mid-ritual. Their appearance could have destabilized him again, just as it did before.

But perhaps what I find to be one of the most compelling pieces is what Veilguard itself tells the player: “The Dread Wolf could not foresee what it would mean to fall in love.” Note the use “the Dread Wolf” here - not Solas. The Dread Wolf is the myth, the feared manipulator. He is supposed to be above mortal emotion, detached and resolute. And yet, the Dread Wolf - not the man beneath the name - is the one undone by love. (How interesting the cut dialogue from Morrigan aligns with this: “And so the Dread Wolf is stopped by, of all things, love.”)

Solas’s Actions Toward Varric Were Not Premeditated 

When Varric approaches Solas at the ritual, Solas doesn’t strike him. He disables Bianca, which Varric has pointed at him - choosing non-lethal intervention - and turns back to his ritual. He speaks to Varric, is composed, focused. There’s no bloodlust or intent to kill. It’s only after Rook topples the statue and Varric lunges at him that Solas stabs him. It’s fast, instinctive, defensive - his control breaking in the middle of a complex, high-stakes spell. And while it’s clear Solas was prepared to incapacitate Varric if necessary, I don’t believe his intention was to kill him (if he truly wanted a fatal outcome for Varric, he would have turned him to stone). I interpret his expression afterward as much: he tilts his head down, his eyes/face fall. This wasn’t premeditated or cold-blooded - it was a response to immediate, physical interference in a moment where precision and focus were everything. Unfortunately, his aim was fatal.

The Inquisitor Would Not Approach the Way Varric Did 

Okay, maybe this part is more subjective, I can admit that - but do many players believe their Friend/Lover Inquisitor would have charged Solas the way Varric did? The Inquisitor is not Varric. Across the games and extended media, they’re portrayed as strategic, influential, and focused on the long game (as I write about here). Varric made an impulsive choice - physically lunging at Solas in the middle of an intense, years-in-the-making ritual. His reaction triggered a defensive response. That’s who Varric is: brave, loyal, emotional - but not really all that strategic. 

By contrast, a friend/lover Inquisitor would most likely approach differently. Look at the atonement ending in Veilguard: they approach slowly, hands out, knowing exactly how dangerous the situation is, yet still choosing to reach him emotionally, rather than physically. Wouldn’t it be reasonable to assume that the same Inquisitor, placed at the ritual site, would do the same? 

And really, we only have one canonical example of an Inquisitor confronting Solas directly: Trespasser. Just the two of them. And even when the Inquisitor is angry or feeling betrayed - not even a low-approval one is harmed. What that shows me is simple: when the Inquisitor is the one standing in front of him, Solas responds differently.

Solas Had Already Changed His Strategy Since Trespasser 

By the time of Veilguard, Solas is no longer fully committed to the most absolute, destructive version of his plan as originally told to the Inquisitor. In The Missing, he tells Varric in a note that “what must be done, will be done cautiously, and I will limit the damage as best I can,” At the ritual site, he again tells Varric that he has taken precautions to minimize the damage, In the Fade prison, he confirms to Rook that he had a host of spirits ready to help minimize loss of life. And while some players may dismiss this as manipulation or self-delusion, it’s worth noting that Emmrich affirms the spirits still think highly of Solas and continue to support him - suggesting he hasn’t lost their trust. Taken together, these are not throwaway lines. They form a consistent pattern.

This isn’t about excusing Solas - it’s about acknowledging the material the game presents. Across multiple sources, the narrative signals that Solas’ internal direction has shifted. He’s no longer blindly pursuing a path of total destruction. Since Trespasser, he’s made a conscious decision (however flawed) to try to control the outcome - to do less harm. Whether or not he’s lying to himself is a valid question, but the story shows that he believes he’s acting with restraint. That belief defines the version of Solas we meet at the ritual site: conflicted, calculating, and trying - however imperfectly - not to repeat past catastrophes.

The Killing of Felassan Is Not a Useful Comparison 

Some players point to Felassan’s death as precedent for the idea that Solas could kill the Inquisitor - but in my view, the circumstances are entirely different. At the assumed time of Felassan’s death, Solas is either still in Uthenera or has recently awakened from it into a world made tranquil by the Veil. He was still reeling from Mythal’s murder and the consequences of his own actions. His psychological and emotional state was unstable to say the least, shaped by disorientation, grief, and urgency. Felassan, by contrast, had centuries to adapt to this changed world, to mourn Mythal, and to forge new connections. Solas had not.

If we look at Solas’s perspective, Felassan didn’t just disagree - he disobeyed a direct order at a critical time, likely seen as a betrayal not only of Solas’ plan, but also of Mythal’s memory. I also don’t believe Felassan’s death was premeditated, it fits a pattern of how Solas reacts when he’s desperate and his control is slipping. (And don't take this as me agreeing with Solas, I'm simply attempting to provide context.)

I think it's worth noting that Felassan’s death may have changed Solas. One of the regrets Rook confronts in the Crossroads is The Betrayal of Felassan, suggesting the moment haunts Solas. It was a personal failure that may have contributed to the caution and restraint we see from him later.

The Flemeth/Mythal Scene 

Some players also cite the end of Inquisition - when Solas absorbs Mythal’s fragment from Flemeth - as proof that he’d kill the Inquisitor, because he kills Mythal. But that reading feels overly simplistic and overlooks what the scene actually depicts, both in Inquisition and its altered version in Veilguard. And maybe this is where I’ll get the most eye rolls, but here it is: Flemeth is not Mythal - she carries only a fragment of her. And in both versions, the visual and narrative cues strongly suggest she anticipated this outcome.

Yes, it does seem cold that Solas has to kill Flemeth to gain Mythal’s power - taking the life of this powerful woman who has influenced and shaped Thedas. But that’s precisely what makes her lack of resistance so fascinating. She doesn’t fight or flee. She reaches out to Solas, touches his face, and calls him “old friend.” So I have to ask - why? If Flemeth or Mythal truly objected, would someone of Flemeth’s immense power (especially when Solas is still regaining his strength) have allowed it? The most reasonable answer is that she didn’t make this decision alone. As the vessel of Mythal’s fragment, it’s entirely plausible that Mythal’s will/memories/essence - her understanding of what must happen - guided the moment. That doesn’t make it easy, or even ethically clean, but it reframes the act as one of grim necessity, not aggression as it wasn’t positioned as theft, but a sorrowful transfer of power.

And we see this tension captured in a single line of dialogue from Mythal: “While the prison is important, it is not the only goal you seek.” She doesn’t reject Solas’ reasoning - she acknowledges the prison’s importance, and by extension, his need for power to do it. But she also makes sure to take this moment to challenge him. She allows the transfer, as she calls him out about why he wants it. Again, Flemeth’s death doesn’t serve as precedent for Solas using violence against the Inquisitor.

The Atonement Ending Reaffirms the Inquisitor’s Unique Emotional Bond

By placing the Inquisitor alongside Mythal in Solas’s path to atonement at the end of Veilguard, it felts like the writers made a deliberate narrative choice. Mythal - the immortal who shaped Solas and his ideology - and the Inquisitor - the mortal who affected his heart - stand together because both are essential to who he’s become. This pairing is symbolic in my eyes as the Inquisitor is framed as Mythal’s equal in emotional and narrative influence over Solas’s fate. They speak before and after her, effectively bookending the moment that changes everything.

A character granted that level of symbolic and emotional influence in Solas’ arc is not someone I feel Solas would plausibly kill at the ritual site.  

Conclusion 

All of this has been my attempt to lay the groundwork - to trace the story’s emotional and narrative architecture - behind why I believe Solas couldn’t have killed the Inquisitor at the ritual site at the beginning of Veilguard. Could he hurt them later, in a moment of desperation or collapse? Yes, there is the possibility, but I don't think intentionally, likely through an accident scenario. But in that moment at the ritual site? I don’t believe he’s in that place yet.

And there’s also this: Solas never kills Rook. Even when he manipulates them in the Fade and tries to use them to take his place, he doesn't physically harm them. At the end, he tells Rook he doesn’t want to fight them and only attacks when Rook strikes first. So to suggest he would kill a high-approval/love Inquisitor - someone he has a deeper, longer, and more emotionally complex bond with - while sparing Rook doesn’t hold up, narratively or thematically in my mind.

Call it delusional or coping - but nothing I’ve presented here is headcanon (if anyone feels it is, please point it out, happy to expand!). I’ve done my best to stay rooted in the material the games and extended lore provide. And as always, I’m open to counterpoints, things I've not considered and happy to keep the conversation going!

..........

Low Approval Inquisitor

Ok so what about a low-approval Inquisitor? The one who rarely brought Solas into the field, frequently antagonized him, or made decisions he fundamentally disagreed with? That doesn’t mean they were a bad leader necessarily. In fact, it’s entirely possible this Inquisitor maintained high approval with other companions and made principled choices. But from Solas’ perspective, that relationship never deepened into an emotional relationship. In Veilguard, he remarks that such an Inquisitor was "useful" - a cold assessment - before shifting focus to bonds that mattered to him, like his friendship with Cole.

Without shared understanding or personal rapport, this Inquisitor might register to Solas as someone capable of interfering, but not capable of reaching him. If they had approached him at the ritual in a moment of volatility - the outcome could have been very different. I can’t speak broadly, as I’ve only played a low-approval Inquisitor once, and even then it was more of an across-the-board low approval run. But I do think it’s more plausible that this Inquisitor would have been at far greater risk of sharing Varric’s fate.

That said, there’s a counterpoint worth considering. By the time of Veilguard, Solas has made efforts to minimize harm - he even helps to stop the Qunari invasion in Trespasser to preserve some peace in Thedas till the veil comes down. In that light, killing the Inquisitor might risk triggering unrest, something he seemed to want to avoid until his ritual. Whether that restraint would hold in the heat of the ritual is debatable - but it’s a possibility. I’d love to hear other perspectives on this as I know I'll think on this one further.

[mikuyuuss]

My head canon about Giyuu is that I think he is a really independent younger child, rather than someone who is just spoiled and unable to do basic tasks.

I could just be projecting, because I'm a younger sibling myself and I don't rely heavily on my older sibs, but I think, that even if Giyuu was pampered, he would eventually learn to help Tsutako in the household. There's only two of them and he probably feels bad that his sister had to raise him alone, so I think, that at a young age, he'd do all that he could to lessen some of her burden.

Another reason is that Urokodaki is very strict with his students. I can't imagine that he (and possibly Sabito) would be lenient with his training. Being a Demon Slayer and especially a Hashira, would mean that you need to at least have basic survival skills. Giyuu would eventually need to learn all that. Not to mention Giyuu is a solitary person, so he has to at least be self sufficient if he was able to survive that long.

Since we're at it, that's also why I personally don't think that Giyuu can't swim. As far as I know, there's no strong evidence to support that. Imagine if he has to save someone from drowning during his mission, then he's screwed.

Urokodaki literally throws his students into into the water, so if anything, I actually hc that Giyuu in present, is a very good swimmer, and likely a decent cook too. It's not quite the same, but some of the things he does in the Gakuen spin off seem to suggest it.

Last image is from GS_Karol99 on twit

We see here how he lives alone. His space even looks neat. He prepares his own meals and even trained the kids on how to survive the ocean. (implying he can swim)

I mean yeah ofc, he still has moments where he wants his sister to dote on him, (this is an au were all things went well after all ) but he's also quick to think about not bothering her. Even if this setting has very low stakes, he still wouldn't survive on his own if he wasn't at least independent.

It's just a headcanon of course, but I like the idea of Giyuu being independent, especially his taisho era counterpart. I think it could play nicely in his development by learning that there is no need for shame and guilt in being protected, and that it's okay to rely on others too, even if he still has a way to go with that.

[peliginspeaks]

I think having "Nightmares" encompass all psychological troubles is an interesting and honestly pretty fitting decision for the game, given the time period. With Freud being on his peak nonsense at the time, ascribing lots and lots of meaning to dreams was becoming fashionable, and there's a certain elegance to considering yourself to be Plagued By Dread Visions! instead of just...coming apart at the seams from the stress of it all. You're losing sleep because of the nightmares, not because of the things that caused them and their effects on you. You're mumbling to yourself and jumping at shadows because of the lost sleep, not because of that other stuff. Just get somebody or take something to fix the dreams, that's the trick! Nothing you have to acknowledge. Nothing unseemly, and nothing outside of your control. It's so very Victorian. It's sad, in a way, when you see it as an attempt to apply a cultural attitude of denial and carefully constructed (performative) self-mastery - that already didn't work well for the real time period it came from, mind you - to life in a cave that kills and traps you and is filled with horrors both beyond, and unfortunately well within, your comprehension.

[blumoontf2]

It makes me so irrationally irritated when people frame Spy as sympathetic in regards to his abandonment of Scout as a Father.

His lack of responsibility as a Father is PATHETIC like genuinely his reasoning is pathetic. In the comics he admits to being ‘scared’ to commit to the role as a Father, and whether this fear came from a deep-rooted, theoretical trauma or not is nooooot an excuse but would be a wonderful REASON to why he abandoned Scout in the first place. A reason I DONT SEE PEOPLE EXPLORING.

I need people to stop dumbing it down to being ‘Spy abandoned his family for the greater good’ because a) it lacks so much depth and b) it sanitises Spy’s character.

I’m not trying to be ‘elitist’ as I believe it’s impossible to have one conscious interpretation of any of the characters in TF2, so in any manner, all characterisation is in some form ‘canon’ to their characters BUT IT LITERALLY MAKES ME BREAK OUT IN HIVES.

Spy SHOULD be flawed, and you SHOULD allow him to make negatively charged decisions. I’m not saying he doesn’t REGRET abandoning his child and I’m not saying Spy is all-encompassing bad but I just wish people didn’t try to make his reasoning so ‘self-sacrificing’ and ‘heroic’ as a way to try and make his character seem more appealing and angelic.

The appeal from his character should come from his genuine desire to CHANGE. To be present for Scout, to be better, and in some way be ‘available’ in a way he didn’t manage to be in Scout’s childhood.

Maybe it’s projection (absent Father core) but Spy was selfish in his decision and you should allow yourself to frame it as so. This doesn’t make his character BAD, it makes him REALISTIC.

[pigeocore]

The diffrent collars colors of Scourge

[prince-liest]

Saw a post recently that rhetorically asked why authors and show writers leaving character sexuality up to interpretation is disappointing when fifteen years ago getting a statement that things were up to interpretation (as opposed to "Definitely NOT gay, you freaks!") was a blessing, and I make a point of never discoursing on the bird app, but wanted to share some thoughts on the subject here - particularly because Alastor is kind of a hot topic on this subject and I think he actually makes for a great example for my thoughts on this.

Honestly, as someone who did live through the "if you think my characters are gay then you're stupid and should die" era, I think it left me with the perspective that even if there is canon sexuality, then no matter what it is, you're free to then do whatever you want in fandom. People might call you a dick for it if you go about it in certain ways, but you're free to do it.

That said... that's not really what wanting canon confirmation is about. It's about having canon representation, especially for identities that we often don't see representation of. For example: Alastor being aromantic is "up for interpretation," and that specifically feels bad when it's explicitly been framed that way as a cop out to appease shippers (per Viv), especially when in canon you can see he's intended to be aroace based off of how Rosie talks about him.

Yes, things are better now than they were 15 years ago... but standards are higher now, too!

And in particular I think that while in 2008 or so, "It's up to interpretation!" basically meant "Yeah, they might be gay but I can't say it," nowadays the meaning has shifted. I see a lot of people chiming into any mention of aroace Alastor with this attitude of "Um, actually, he's NOT aromantic because it wasn't confirmed by Viv (even though he wasn't confirmed to NOT be aro either)," rather than the spirit of "Oh, yeah, he might be aro, that's a valid interpretation!" It actually feels very similar to seeing people go "Well, X is OBVIOUSLY straight (the default) because he wasn't confirmed to like men!"

...in 2008, haha.

Anyway, fandom always feels to me like a 'do whatever you want' zone, but I think just based off of the sheer volume and depth of genuine and heartfelt reactions people have had to Alastor as a character and his portrayal as aroace... having canon representation and seeing yourself in media you enjoy matters a great deal to many people.

I had a really emotional moment when I read my preorder of House of Hades from the Percy Jackson series back in middle school and realized that Nico di Angelo was an actual gay character in an actual real, physical book that I was holding in my hands, not "just" a headcanon from my nebulously safe online fandom spaces, for the first time ever. Similarly, people have been headcanoning various characters as ace for a long, long time, but to me it's never had the same punch to it as it being official when it comes to those kinds of feelings re: representation.

So leaving that kind of thing "up to interpretation" specifically as an alternative to providing representation to a group of people who rarely sees it is disappointing, but it's not for shipping reasons.

[uhbasicallyjustmilex]

See Ya When I See Ya (Acoustic), Miles Kane @ The Caves Edinburgh 13/11/24

literal moments before this: a group of people in the crowd suddenly started chanting for miles to play standing next to me. he acknowledged it for a moment with the hint of a nostalgic/wistful smile, and then proceeded to level us all with reactionary, wry, raised-eyebrows look and launched immediately into see ya when i see ya instead. and this isn’t even my milex brain talking (the girl next to me literally went “oh wow”), the way he did it was genuinely SO loud. like it was an unmistakeable expression that so clearly showed he feels something about those two songs is inherently connected. it was such a from-the-gut, instinctive response and it spoke VOLUMES. i wish wish WISH i'd managed to catch it on video because i know my description is not doing it justice at all, but trust me. it really packed a punch. like there was this reminder of the most popular puppets song from the crowd (and one that’s particularly associated with all their milex antics at that) , and then this visceral expression from miles of "yeah, none of that anymore" or "look at where we are now" as he introduced see ya when i see ya. there were just. SO many emotional layers. and like yes, i know it's sort of an open secret that see ya when i see ya might be about alex and their creative/personal relationship, but god. this really felt so close to an open admission that that’s the case.

[son-of-avraham]

I've come to realize that to me, g-d is the recipient of the love I have for others that I can't give, and that's why I've always resonated with the concept of B'tzelem Elohim. I cannot show my love to every single person - it's impossible. But we are all in the image of Him, all in His essence, and so I direct the excess to Him. We are all part of the reflection of g-d. The love we have for each other is, to me, the love we have for g-d.

[some-pers0n]

now the real question is: having played chapters 3 and 4, are you now a transfem ralsei believer? or do you think more evidence is still needed

I think there's actually a decent amount of evidence to support a transfem Ralsei interpretation and I do kinda really like it. Ralsei's whole character is that he believes his fate is entirely sealed. He was created to be the princes of darkness, an asset to the lightners of prophecy and nothing more. This is hammered home especially in chapters 3 and 4, where Ralsei frequently says that he doesn't really want to desire anything for himself. He thinks that trying to be something more than his duty, such as having a room or putting on cute clothes, is something a darkner shouldn't do...but god he wants it so bad. Whenever he gets the taste of a cake during a tea party. Whenever Kris comforts him. Whenever he's presented with putting on flowy, pretty ribbons and dresses... He enjoys it deeply. He wants to be more than simply the prince of darkness

I think ultimately Ralsei's arc will be about embracing to want things. "Selfish" desires such as wanting to hang out with his friends or wear things he actually wants to wear. Toby is no stranger to trans allegories, the biggest examples being Mettaton and Mad Mew Mew of course, and given that chapter 3 and 4 is leaning more into Ralsei becoming his own person and such... Yeah it's not too unlikely. Also the entire scene with Ralsei wanting to wear the exact same dress that is also used in Undertale by a lioness NPC for gender euphoria. Hmmm,,, thoughtfully scratching my chin..

[tinylongwing]

Vide Noir's dual narrative structure

All right, here it is, me making good on at least one of my meta threats. Lord Huron's album Vide Noir can be interpreted as an album with two parallel, contrasting narratives - that of the lead protagonist Buck Vernon, as well as that of Johnnie Redmayne.

Disclaimer: this is an interpretation I think is pretty sound and well-reasoned, but I make no claim to any of this being proven canon information.

---

For those unfamiliar or who need a reminder, the primary narrative is this: the year is 1967, and we start near the end of Buck's journey, as he awakens from being black-brained (Lost in Time and Space). Having just suffered an overdose on the drug vide noir, his memories are slow to return to him, but return they do - his fiancee, Leigh/Lee Green (from here on Leigh but both spellings have been used), left him without a word one night, and he decided to follow, heading west to Los Angeles from their home town of Detroit, Michigan. He's been struggling to find her, checking every bar in the city in case she was booked to sing at one as her move was the result of her chasing her dream of becoming a singer. He doesn't remember a lot about himself, really, after that overdose, but he remembers her, and his love for her makes him desperate to find her.

We're then taken back to the night he left to find her (Never Ever) and his journey is mostly linear from there - he meets a fortune teller, Lady Moonbeam, who tells him that pursuing Leigh will end in his ruin, but he refuses to accept her advice and pushes on (Ancient Names I & II). He laments that he's been some kind of fuckup, that maybe he chased Leigh away through his own behavior, but that he still loves her and begs for her to return (Wait By the River). At some point around here he also learns of the drug vide noir and contemplates using it himself for clues.

(Note that unlike in the movie, in the album, nothing suggests that Buck suffered from a murder attempt by Z'Oiseau's henchmen but that instead he may have overdosed himself in an attempt to find Lee. However, there's plenty of reason to suspect that the film is the canon interpretation here anyway and the henchmen kidnapping Buck just doesn't make for a song I guess.)

One way or another, he winds up black-brained, where some deep existential truths of the universe are revealed to him (Secret of Life - namely that everyone and everything dies in the end, and that a human life is brief, fleeting, and ultimately meaningless within the context of the universe as a whole). He somehow reawakens rather than dying (Back from the Edge) and, again, understands that nothing he does will ever matter, has never mattered*, but that *even though* he's suffered greatly already on this quest, he's still committed to trying to find Leigh, pitting himself against that careless universe (The Balancer's Eye).

So he keeps searching (When the Night is Over) until he finds a clue, or a helping hand of some sort, that leads him on the right path to his beloved Leigh (Moonbeam). We get one more reminder of the forces at work here - vide noir is some awful stuff, it nearly killed him, Leigh herself is hooked on it now, it shows you terrible truths and nightmares beyond human comprehension (Vide Noir) - and when all is said and done, as Buck thinks he's about to "rescue" Leigh from her fate and bring her back to his fantasy of a perfect happy life together, she rejects him. He came all this way through time and space, and she doesn't love him at all in the end (Emerald Star).

---

I consider this the primary narrative here because it makes use of all the songs on the album, it has a clear start and ending and a mostly linear structure, and the album basically serves as a soundtrack to Buck's fool's errand. The film agrees - every scene is centered around his journey, after all. But we have context from Lord Huron's other albums, as well as the lyrics and musical stylings of multiple songs on Vide Noir, that show us that Buck isn't necessarily the only narrator on this album. Strange Trails, of course, came out three years prior, and features songs by multiple fictional bands performing songs which serve as narration for a diverse cast of characters. Unlike on Strange Trails, where each track has a writer or band specifically named and assigned to it as well as a character narrative, Vide Noir does not give us such conclusive information, but we can still put clues together to understand at least some of who the in-universe performers might be on Vide Noir.

Most likely, multiple of these songs are by the Buck Vernon Band - this is pretty obvious. Buck's semi-autobiographical music is all over Strange Trails, usually referencing a girl he loves, sometimes referencing that the girl left him, often giving her different names, all starting with L (Fool For Love's "Lily", and "Louisa").

But the other band that we can easily identify as performers on Vide Noir are the Phantom Riders. For those who need an introduction, this is the band composed of four members of the World Enders gang, with Dale Redmayne at the helm as lead writer. They were seen previously on Strange Trails as well, with banger surf/rockabilly hits like Hurricane, Until the Night Turns, and The World Ender. As a storytelling tool, they are primarily brought in to tell us about the man-turned-undead horror entity known as The World Ender himself, and then otherwise mostly we get their songs about Dale's brother Johnnie Redmayne, who is introduced to us in Strange Trails as a fun-loving and presumably fairly young guy, a thrillseeker and hedonist, who lives for the moment as if the world could end any day. The Buck Vernon Band jumps in between some of these songs with an interjection to tell us that wait, Johnnie is dead, or was, but he got back up. In Dead Man's Hand, Buck speculates that Johnnie could have been murdered or may have killed himself, accidentally or intentionally, upon first seeing him. It's in Vide Noir that we actually learn more about the circumstances of Johnnie's death.

Before we get to that, let's first identify which Vide Noir songs are by the Phantom Riders. This isn't all that hard to do. Any song that references The World Ender is presumably theirs - that gives us Secret of Life right away ("I sit alone in the dark, and I try to remember the words you spoke when you summoned the Ender"). This is reinforced in the Alive From Whispering Pines webseries, episode 423 - Secret of Life, when played, shows a skeleton prop the band has jokingly referred to as Cobb Avery on their social media posts in the past, and after the song ends in this episode, the tune continues in a slowed and distorted fashion through a clip of a WBUB movie version of Dead Man's Hand showing Johnnie rising from the pavement when Buck is about to bury him.

Ancient Names Parts I and II are presumably written by the same band as a two-part song. In the Vide Noir film, the Phantom Riders are performing Part II in the underground club. Additionally, in Alive From Whispering Pines episode 426, after Tubbs Tarbell is done reminiscing about the band and their nihilism, Ancient Names Part II is the next song covered - and often in this series, the structure of the segments between songs are intentional and related to either the song they precede or the song they follow, so it's likely that the placement of the Phantom Riders' appearance followed by a track they're associated with is meant to help confirm them as the performers. In addition, Ancient Names Part I references a fortune teller, and we know from the film that the fortune teller in question, Lady Moonbeam, is associated with the World Enders and knows the Redmaynes.

The last track on Vide Noir that is most likely theirs is the title track, Vide Noir. We have two points of evidence for this - one lyrical ("Many evils have I enjoyed, prowling the night raising hell with the boys" which feels like a pretty direct reference to the World Enders' nighttime violence) and one musical - the main melody of Vide Noir is identical to that of Ancient Names (and Fortune Teller's Theme, actually). In Strange Trails, using the same melody for multiple songs was an easy way to tie Frankie Lou's songs together, and here we can see that it ties two Phantom Riders tracks together directly, indicating that not only are they both by the same band, but that Vide Noir is a followup to Ancient Names part I, in which our fortune teller did warn us things would go very, very wrong.

(And besides all of that, the Phantom Riders tracks on Vide Noir all tend to be similar in musical style - psychedelia-flavored garage rock with a heavy bass line, in contrast to other songs on the album.)

With those songs identified, we should also be aware of just how much Lord Huron seem to love their dual narratives. In Strange Trails, we have a really concrete example of this with The Night We Met. This song was in-universe written by Frankie Lou, presumably about her doomed relationship with Z'Oiseau and how much she wishes she had never met him to begin with (as she echoes in her dialogue in the Vide Noir film when speaking to Buck in her dressing room). However, the music video for this song shows not Frankie and Z'Oiseau, but instead Buck, driving west, while reflecting on his own failure to keep Leigh, wishing he could go back in time and fix things, and meanwhile kind of hallucinating her as he goes. In the album Long Lost, we get another dual narrative in I Lied, which is performed by Donny and Midge but is also sung by Leigh in Vide Noir, foreshadowing her breakup with and lack of love for Buck. There are certainly other dual narratives in both of those albums to be found as well - so what we should keep in mind here is that often, songs can be written and performed by a character or band in order to narrate for themselves or someone close to them, but that just as in our real-world movie soundtracks or our favorite character playlists on spotify, those songs can be applied to other characters in different (but somewhat similar) situations than the ones they were written for.

So! We have four Phantom Riders tracks on Vide Noir, all of which were presumably not written originally in-universe about Buck Vernon, because why would they be, Buck and the World Enders only briefly cross paths and at the very least we know that Ancient Names Part II was written well before he ever met them. Instead, it makes the most sense if like the bulk of the Phantom Riders songs, these tracks serve Johnnie's narration instead.

---

If that's the case, what does that give us? Winding around and through Buck's journey is this second storyline. Johnnie Redmayne, having used and enjoyed vide noir himself abundantly ("I had a vision tonight that the world was ending" as one probable example), decides it's time to get his hands on bulk quantities so as to get the Enders in on controlling the flow of the drug in LA rather than letting Z'Oiseau maintain a monopoly, thereby also increasing revenue for the members of the gang.

It's Moonbeam who warns him to knock it off first. We know, thanks to the film, that he'd spoken to her at some point about his plans to investigate the source of the drug at Tobey's arcade and try to get his hands on some to sell. Whatever his exact plan was, in Ancient Names Part 1, Moonbeam warns him that pursuing this is going to get him killed. Vide noir isn't just a drug, it's something extremely dangerous, tied to dangerous people, and he needs to get away from "her" (and note that frequently throughout music history, drugs have been personified as a "her" or an unnamed lover, whether for poetic reasons or to evade censorship that might come from talking directly about drug use - and Cursed, off Strange Trails, is one more in-universe example, where "her" refers both to Leigh Green and to drug use, specifically vide noir).

Immediately afterward, Ancient Names Part 2, in addition to serving as a very classic sort of World Enders nihilism anthem, can easily be interpreted as Johnnie saying "fuck that, I do what I want, you only live one life anyway and even if it kills me, I want to make my mark before I go out." Death is something hypothetical - sure, it'll get him some day, it gets everyone, and maybe Moonbeam is even right, but he isn't going to let her warning stop him.

On Strange Trails, Buck and Johnnie cross paths at Dead Man's Hand. On this album they only cross thematically, and the pivotal moment of intersection might be Secret of Life. This song may be the point at which Buck learns some forbidden secrets revealed by taking vide noir as discussed above, but its lyrics speak a lot more specifically to Johnnie's experience, implying some connection between him, vide noir, and the World Ender.

It may be that as we see with Buck in the film, perhaps Johnnie too has suffered the effects of being black-brained prior to taking it due to the time and space-bending effects of the drug (notice, for example, in Strange Trails we get Johnnie's story in a scrambled chronological order) and here he's confronted with the harsh truths of what those past visions of his possible future mean for him: he has been set on a path that is no longer avoidable due to his eventual future overdose. So perhaps it's at this point that he acknowledges that he is going to die sooner rather than later and that his life and death will not have meant anything to the greater cosmos, but this information, which was new to Buck, is not something Johnnie fears. Johnnie is hardly new to this point of view. He's seen past echoes of the knowledge imparted by vide noir throughout his life, both in his future visions of the end of the world (again see Until The Night Turns) and in the knowledge passed on through other World Enders, including their own motto ("The fair, the brave, the good must die", or in Secret of Life here, "The darkness comes for all of us").

(As an aside, there's still a lot to unravel with Secret of Life that I haven't touched on here. It's a fascinating song with some really mysterious lyrics. I've speculated at length in the LH discord about some additional interpretations this song could yield but won't veer off topic here.)

And yet despite what looks like a very certain and dire end, Johnnie maintains hope that perhaps he, too, will live past this. Because if Cobb Avery did, why can't he? This is part of the gang's core mythos - their founder is a dead man. He clawed his way back out of the grave for revenge, they thought it was just so fucking cool that he was unkillable that they had to join him, and together they dismantled the Winthrop Corporation, one murder at a time. When the police finally caught up to him, they lynched him - but the noose did nothing, for he was already dead, and now in the form of a skeleton, he called the gang to his side (see Strange Trails: The World Ender comic book). In the ensuing chaos, he flees, the gang heads west and relocates to east Los Angeles, and in the time contemporary with the events of Vide Noir, he is still present among them but this appears to be unknown to the public (Daily Trails prop, by Kim Berens, used in both Vide Noir and Alive From Whispering Pines where it was modified to Ten years later).

Whether The World Ender is readily visible to and known by most members of the gang at this point is unknown, but we know that those who were black-brained can see him (in the film, Buck sees him approaching, bumps into him, plunges into a hallucination of his own future, and when he comes too, the Ender is gone). Given the Secret of Life lyrics, it's reasonable to guess that Johnnie at least can see the World Ender just fine and one way or another, in speaking with him and in conjunction with consuming vide noir, has learned enough secret knowledge to make some kind of choice - and this is what later enables him, too, to drag his way back to the world of the living.

Fate catches up to Johnnie and as we learn in the film, his death was at the hands of Z'Oiseau's henchmen for trying to gain access to dealing in vide noir. Like Buck, he is black-brained - forced to swallow enough of the drug to kill him. And so the track Vide Noir opens with the Fortune Teller's Theme previously heard in Ancient Names Part 1, and that tune is woven through the track - Moonbeam's "I warned you, I told you so" to both of these fools who disregarded her advice. Although, again, the lyrics are clearly meant primarily to narrate for Johnnie - "Many evils have I enjoyed, prowling the night raising hell with the boys, getting high on a pure black void" sounds a lot more like what Johnnie gets up to than Buck. We are given a glimpse of his last words and final thoughts as life slips away and his consciousness is sent straight to the final edge of the cosmos.

---

So ultimately, this is what we're left with:

Vide Noir is an album that tells the story of Buck Vernon, whose fiancee has left him. His journey culminates in a near-brush with death, in finding Leigh, and in learning that she does not love him and that he's nothing, his life is worth nothing more than dust and that none of it mattered or will ever matter, that once he eventually dies he will vanish and be forgotten in time.

Vide Noir also tells the story of Johnnie Redmayne, who for once tries to do something that isn't just for his own hedonistic pleasure but that might actually help bring in money to support his friends and family, but he's too headstrong and impulsive to listen to the warnings he's given, and is killed in the attempt.

One lives who probably shouldn't have and comes out at rock bottom and now has to work out how to move on from here, and one dies a nihilist who should presumably just accept the inevitability of death, but has the knowledge and absolute stubborn determination to enable his eventual return, following in the footsteps of Cobb Avery.

And what happens to both of them afterward? Well, we don't know. Hopefully some day (SOON?? BEN PLEASE) we'll get the opportunity to find out!

[lady-asphodel]

I think a lot of people went so far into debunking the misinterpretations of Dr. Ratio that they sometimes are blinded by their own idolized thought of him.

It is only my humble and subjective opinion — and interpretation of Dr. Ratio's character — but while I wholeheartedly agree that he isn't arrogant and narcissistic, Dr. Ratio is not a character made out of kindness and empathy.

No. I don't think Dr. Ratio is empathetic.

A lot seems to forget that he is still unconventionally self-centered and negative minded. The only reason he is so helpful is because he wishes for the success and progress of Civilization and Life. He's still human, of course, so he can show genuine care, but it isn't as occuring as some makes it seem. He doesn't help humanity, fools or others out of empathy and deep rooted kindness.... He does because his vision of life is beyond the concept of value itself: that's why he thinks all lives should be lived no matter what.

In fact, I think he doesn't really have any attachment to other people. What they are going through, what they once did or will do, anything, doesn't matter; it will never affect him emotionally or personally. But he may have a genuine 'care' for life and civilization. So, naturally, teaching and helping the ones having a part in it is the logical course, but he doesn't really "care" about them as individuals, nor does he actively despises them. The only thing that influences his behavior towards someone is based on their ignorance and foolishness.

So, while not empathetic, he isn't heartless and even less an asshole that hates everything and is mean to every walking things.

Dr. Ratio is extremely self-aware as much as he is aware of and understand his surroundings — something that heavily differentiate him with the Genius Society members. And I don't think it's because of empathy.

I personally theorize that Dr. Ratio possess the highest form of knowledge of the Self, being a personification of Truth itself.

[chimerafeathers]

actually i still have thoughts building on my interpretation of the timeline question from this timeline post

two main things. first, what Isabeau says about his Change

it's a metaphorical death, of course. Isabeau is still alive and did not literally, physically kill himself in order to Change. but even so, the person he "would" have been without that Change is "dead." he's still him, he's always been him, the kid he was is still in there but he's still Isabeau. there is only one timeline.

but, second, it's like. sometimes you remember a turning point in your life—an opportunity you took or didn't take. a coincidence that led to you meeting your best friend, or a choice that led to some of the darkest moments of your life, or a circumstance that you could have never controlled at all that, nevertheless, you can see how it shaped you as you are now, for better or for worse.

and maybe sometimes you are overwhelmed with something about how your life as it is now. and you find yourself mourning, deeply and sincerely, something that never existed. the death of that possibility, that "timeline" where you made a different choice, were born into a different family, had met a different person, had met the same person but at a different time.

would you be happier? would you still be "you"? would it be better if you weren't? would you be better?

there's no way to know. you are you, and have always been you. there is only one timeline.

...but for Loop...they make a choice, and their continuity is cut. they become the circumstances that change how the story plays out. they get to watch, from the outside, the "what if" scenario that would have led them to the happiness they sought.

it doesn't matter if the party or the world "literally" died and were rewritten in the wake of their wish. they are mourning something that never existed—a world where they are the one who is embraced and accepted without hesitation by a party who knows them. the party that could have given them that is dead, the version of themself that could have had that is dead, they are removed from the happy "what-if" even as it plays out before them. the grief and guilt are real even if the deaths are metaphorical.

there is only one timeline, but they can never again be THE Siffrin who loves their party instead of A Siffrin who changed beyond recognition. their choice destroyed something they can never get back. a party who loved them, and not their replacement. they're dead, they're gone, they're replaced with people who only know to turn that love towards someone else who wears their face.

but of course, of course the opportunity for reconnection still exists. no matter what details change, no matter if the party from the Prologue and the party from ISAT are the same exact people or some rewritten version of them, the fundamental cores of them prevail. and they are predisposed towards loving each other. their happiness is still within reach—it will just look different than they had thought.

[toastytrusty]

thinking a lot tonight about my favorite hickey interpretation which is that he is essentially a failed religious fanatic. to Me it is so much more compelling if he genuinely reveres the tuunbaq. he doesn't want to dominate it, he wants to worship it, or exist alongside it. he is deep in delusion and truly believes he has a genuine connection to it. he thinks that if he sacrifices the remaining men he has under his control to it, the tuunbaq will accept him as a follower. he has always believed himself separate to britain and its empire, an exception to its corruption. he believes that using the imperialist system to get away from the imperialist nation he hates makes him different than those who use the imperialist system to carry out explicitly imperialist endeavors. he thinks his past actions are inconsequential, thinks his resentment exempts him, thinks denouncing britain and allowing the tuunbaq to kill his crew will win him the respect and acceptance of this godly creature. but it doesn't. he isn't different. the pain he has caused for his personal pursuits is just as damaging as pain caused for grander, imperial pursuits, and is in fact the same thing. he is just as much a force of destruction as anyone else, just as much a target of the tuunbaq's rath as anyone else. perhaps more than anyone else. he lived his life hating britain, yet he still exhausted his endless quest for connection and purpose within the british framework before looking outside of it. he thought crozier saw things the way he did, recognized the same things he did, and he played the imperialist game as he saw it to be (abusing native people), attempting to chase that connection. but when crozier came up lacking and he came up brutalized, he stopped trying to find it there. he thinks instead that the tuunbaq sees him, recognizes he is different in a way crozier never did, can give him the soul bonded Purpose that he so deeply craves. he is genuinely mystified by it, sees it as so much larger and holier than anything britain has ever offered, and thinks it respects him the same way he respects it. tuunbaq killing him is much the same as crozier lashing him. he committed acts of violence to appeal to both of them, thinking it would win him their respect and admiration, only to end up as a subject of their violence in return, because he isn't what they want and he is never able to truly connect with people in the way he wants