#jason was only in a coma for like a month

[oifaaa]

If Tim was 13 when he became Robin and Jason was 15 when he died and spent 6 months dead then there’s maybe just over a year between them. And then two years comatose then Tim drake is actually older than Jason was mentally despite Jason being legally and physically older which means Tim drake got beat up by two of his younger brothers which is really lame of him. Can’t believe he’s been beaten up by his younger brothers twice and he still acts like he’s the baby victim.

I like your thought process here your math is a bit off but let's ignore that in favour of how funny it is for Tim to be beaten up by 2 younger siblings

[arcade-confetti]

Imagine an omegaverse au where Red Hood Jason hasn't presented due to heavy stress, poor health, whatever, etc and is still a pup

[rin-may-1103]

Just a Bite.

Master Post | Next

Danny stared out at the busy street from behind his dumpster.

or well, not his dumpster, but it might as well be his considering how many nights he's spent sitting behind it like some rabid raccoon.

Two months ago, he would have been sleeping in his own bed. His glow-in-the-dark stars vaguely lighting up his room in soft luminescent colors. The sound of Jazz snoring in her sleep just a room over, his parents still milling around in the basement.

he would have just finished fighting the box ghost and collapsed onto his bed, the sound of his home lulling him to sleep.

Oh, how things can change in a blink of an eye.

No, instead of sleeping on his bed with his cartoon ghost sheets and NASA poster covered room, he's out here in some random dirty city, sleeping behind dumpsters.

dirty, grimy, rusty dumpsters.

"did you hear?" some lady dressed in a light blue summer dress asked, turning to look at her friend as they started to walk past. "Mr. Wayne donated another lump sum to that charity." she huffed, shaking her head like she had just said the most ridiculous thing she'd ever heard.

her friend stopped in the middle of the alley opening, her graying hair splaying in an ark as she twisted to face the other women. "my word! again? what the hell is that man thinking?"

the woman huffed, then smirked in amusement. "it's like he's shouting for the world to hear how desperate he is for attention. he thinks if he donates enough money to those scoudrails they'll love him or something. With how he's acting lately, it's like he wants all the street rats to barge into his home asking for money, food, and clothes."

her friend clicked her tongue in disgust, "I'd believe it. he has so many kids now, it's like he's running an orphanage. someone, anyone really, with black hair and some tragic story could walk right in and not even be noticed. they'd blend right in with the others."

"I heard it's genetic, his father was the same way before he met Martha. Bruce's blood son, Damian I believe, acts just like his father. the boy's been spotted taking stray cats and dogs inside. It wouldn't surprise me if the paper posted about him convincing his father for another sibling at some point."

the women then turned and started to walk away, their conversation slowly bleeding into the surrounding city ruckus.

Danny leaned back, resting his head against the crumbling brick behind him.

walk right in and not be noticed? wouldn't that be grand. He had heard of Mr. wayne and his gaggle of black-haired children. What were their names again? he could have sworn Sam told him before, in one of her rants about rich society.

Richard Grayson was the first, Danny remembered because Tucker had been making none stop dick jokes for a few hours. Danny didn't understand why the man would willingly go by Dick, but then again, who was he to question someone's name when he fights ghosts like Skulker and Technis on a daily basis?

Next was... Jason? Sam had mentioned there was a whole conspiracy theory of how his death was a cover-up. how all the unsolved crime community swore it was Bruce who killed the kid, that or the kid had some terminal illness that Bruce didn't want the media to know about.

thennnnnn-

Danny glanced around, trying to dig through his memories of Sam's rant. Dick: the orphaned circus act taken in the night his parents died. he's romanie? maybe, Danny wasn't too sure on that one. Jason: taken off the streets, one of his parents was out of the picture and the other one died of a drug overdose.

and then there was..... Tim! Right, Tim, the one who was Mr. Wayne's neighbor before his mother died and his dad went into a coma, then died later on. right, right. he was the known tech genius, the one who took over the company while Mr. Wayne stepped back for a while.

there were others? like, four others? Damian, the lady said he was the blood son sooo, that would imply he was the only bio kid.

who else was there? hmmmm.

well, either way, Danny's tired brain agreed with the women. someone, anyone, who looked vaguely like the other kids could walk right into the house and no one would notice.

it was a bad idea. a terrible one really. but. Danny was hungry.

he's been sleeping behind dumpsters for a few weeks now, he hadn't had anything good to eat in forever, and he was tired. (not as exhausted as he was back home, but still tired. who would have guessed he'd sleep more while homeless?)

he wasn't going to steal from people, his core wouldn't allow him to. and well, he's pretty sure Dan would have stolen already, so there was no way Danny was going to. not unless his life was at risk, and well? it wasn't right now, so no stealing.

but this? walking right into a house and blatantly taking food? right in front of them?

it wouldn't be stealing if he just flat-out didn't try to hide it. they'd be able to stop him and send him away. heck, he doubted he'd even make it past the front gate before they turned him away.

...

was he really going to do this?

...

yes, yes he was.

standing up, Danny started making his way out of the alleyway and over to the tall building with Wayne's name on it. It was a good place to start, maybe he could even find one of the kids and walk with them. or, even better, he could find Mr. Wayne and walk with him. he liked that better than following some kid around.

suddenly, a car honked right next to him, the window rolling down to reveal a tired and disheveled man behind the wheel. glancing up, Danny made eye contact with the taxi driver.

the man yawned and gestured for him to get in, already speaking before Danny could decline. "Mr. Wayne! Your father," yawn, "Father already paid for me to take you home. just hop in."

Danny blinked then glanced around, looking to see if the Wayne the man was talking about was around. nope. turning back, Danny spotted a green sticky note on the back seat.

well, alright then. guess he was getting into the taxi and doing this after all. Clockwork obviously approved if he messed with the timing of things.

Next

[cosmic-dust-poltergeist]

Pt2 of Tim Drake having Joker Junior PTSD and scaring people with his laugh

[Click Here For Part 1: Titans]

Part 2: Bats

Tim hadn't slept more than 20 minutes in 4 days. He's been running around non-stop between cases and his CEO duties, and it's taking its toll. His hallucinations started flickering to life a day ago; shadowy figures at the edge of his vision and noise/voices yelling in his ears. It's all very annoying, but unfortunately, he still has to make it through the family dinner before he can barricade himself in his room for the next 24 hours. He plans to sleep 20 of them.

He's literally praying the idiots he calls siblings are too distracted by each other to bother him And that Joker isn't a topic for once. He's one Jason whining about the Joker needing to die away from letting himself from having a breakdown and stabbing himself to get out of this stupid dinner. He's so fucking tired.

Luckily, he must look as dead as he feels because they mostly leave him alone and easily accept his demands of letting him have his mini coma tomorrow. Even gave some backhanded compliments about taking care of himself, as if he isn't the only reason the lights are still on in the manor. He doesn't see any of them pitching in. Maybe they think Bruce is still paying? Man dumped his job on a 15 year old. At this point, Tim is this family's sugar daddy, which is actually really awful now that he thinks about it...

He's off topic. Just have to make it thro-

"Well, if you would just kill him!!"

'Gods fucking damnit!'

The room goes eerily silent as Tim just starts unhinged laughing. He's choking on it as he tries to breathe.

"T-Tim?"

"Re-replacement?"

"I'll grab the antidote for Joker venom. Drake should have told us if-"

Tim holds up a hand, silencing them again, as he forces his breathing to calm a fraction. It's not enough to stop the laughter, but it is enough to get words out.

"The an- HAHA- antidote isn't going- HAHAHA- going to work f-Ha-for this! HAHAHA"

"Tim. I thought these attacks stopped."

"The fuck are you talking about, old man!?"

"They ne- HAHA- never stopped! HAHAHAHA- Juss-st became less- HAHA- often. Only HAHAHA- only if I get tri- HAHA- triggered ss-sssomehow HA"

"Wh-what triggered you, Timmy?"

Tim moves his plate and drink out of the wait before slamming his head onto the table twice with probably more force than necessary or is health. He feels his family jump up to stop him from doing more damage, but he's done, he just keeps his face pressed to the table while STILL Joker laughing. He has a massive headache, and it's not just from the brain damage he just gave himself.

"Wh- I mean, what happened to make Tim have these episodes?" Duke sounds petrified. Tim feels a little bad about it.

"I'll tell you if Tim gives-" Tim gives a thumbs up in Dick's direction. "Oh! Um! Okay, Okay, cool. So I only know what Tim and Barbara told me in the aftermath, but, um, the Joker and Harley Quinn kidnapped Tim. They tortured him for nearly a month to make him into "Joker Junior"."

"Di- HAHAHA- Didn't work! The Bitches! HAHAHA"

"It kinda sounds like it did-" Tim throws a fork at Jason without lifting his head. "Hey!!"

"Asshole. HAHaHa"

"Jason, stop antagonizing your brother." Bruce lightly scolds.

"Hey, Tim? Is there any way we can help?" Duke sounds like he moved a bit closer.

"N-Ha-no" Tim morosely says. "I HaHa just have to HaHaHa wait it out HaHa"

"Man, that must suck." Jason sounds genuinely apologetic.

"Tim, do you know what triggered this episode?" That Batman, not Bruce speaking, and Tim hates it. He throws a spoon at him. Demon Brat makes a squawk of offense, but Tim can't care.

"It's a valid question, Tim." Tim sits up just to glare at Dick.

"It was probably HaHa the fact I started hallucinating yesterday from HaHaHaHa lack of sleep. I haven't been HaHa able HaHa to sleep because I've been running a HaHa HaHa HaHa multi billion dollar company while working on cases for you, HaHa Jason, Bruce, and Barbara HaHaHa as well as 3 of my own cases. THEN, we can't HAHAHA can't even have ONE STUPID DINNER WITHOUT JASON WHINING HAHAHA ABOUT DEAR OL' PAPA JOKER!" Tim runs a hand through his messy hair, trying to self sooth. "I'm so fucking tired. Hahaha I'm just so tired.."

"Okay, okay, have you eaten enough?" Dick asks with a pained look on his face. Tim glances at his half eaten meal and decides it's good enough. He gives a nod, shoving himself to his feet.

"Yeah, haha I'm going to boil myself alive hahaha with a shower and going to bed. Hahaha Don't ask me for anything hahaha for at least 24."

He ignores them bursting into conversation, 100% about him, once he shuffles out. Cass slips out into the hall and catches up with him before he can even get to the stairs.

"Hug?"

"I would haha love a hug ha" Cass gives him a strong hug. It lasts a few minutes, which is abnormally long for a hug, but Tim loves it. It helps his nerves. "Thanks, haha Cass."

She simply smiles at him as she pulls away before pointing him up the stairs with a mock sternness. He giggles his real laugh between the Joker laughter and complies with the "demand".

He knows he'll regret his outburst after he's gotten some sleep, but for now, he doesn't care. He has an overdue date with his bed and he refuses to reschedule.

[brucewaynehater101]

I’d love to see more of the Emotional Marks AU. I want to see the reveal and the Bats having the realization that just because they’re doing better /now/, it doesn’t fix the damage they did before. And that they can’t force things to heal. Healing takes time.

Post being mentioned is here

What I'm curious about is if it's a human only thing or if others (like Kyrptonians, Martians, Atlanteans, etc.) also get marks.

Anyways, here's some more stuff I thought of. As always, take as little or as much as you'd like of it ^^

Tim never takes off the object hiding his marks, even for himself. It's part habit and part desperation to never see how much his loved ones have actually hurt him.

He's unique in that he isn't sure where most of his marks come from. People usually see the marks within 24 hours of their appearance. Tim has gone years between seeing his own marked skin.

As I've stated before, the object works like glamor. Therefore, those with enough magic power would be able to see past it. This is part of why Tim wanted pants for the Robin uniform (any magicians working with Robin would see the moment they saw any of Tim's bare skin). Tim is very lucky the marks on his face only appeared a bit before he became Red Robin (and part of his reason for the cowl).

Marks typically stay away from the face. They only appear there if symbolically significant or if the marks are running out of space elsewhere on the body. Bart and Kon dying really did a number on Tim even though it wasn't their fault.

YJ and Dick have helped soothe some of the marks left behind by the Drakes (and Bruce too if you want good dad Bruce). Quite a bit have even fully disappeared due to them.

Tim still collected them like Halloween candy, though.

Major marks and their placement [though feel free to offer different ideas]:

Bruce calling Tim "Jason" - x on the back of neck

16th birthday - Major gash on right temple hidden by hair

Janet dying - splintering cracks along hand (bigger version of the one Janet fakes)

Jack coma then death - line in left calf then up to mid back of thigh

Bart dying - right side from under armpit to end of ribs gash

Kon dying - giant oval over sternum

Jason's TT attack - left foot/ankle cracks

Damian's attacks - stomach area

Losing Robin - largest slash diagonal across back (left shoulder to right hip)

There's more marks, but the ones on his face are caused by people not believing in him [this is not a "they should have" argument. It would have hurt regardless of what they should have done]

Hmm... So, the reveal? I'm thinking a magician. This would be after Tim switches back to just a mask and no cowl. His face marks would be on display for magicians but no one else. He, wrongly, assumed he'd be fine.

He's playing nice with the Bats at this point, even if he doesn't fully trust them. He loves them and wants to keep the peace. He'd never voluntarily show them his marks or tell them about it.

The Bats are being nicer under the idea that their assumptions about markless were incorrect. It weirds Tim out and usually has him ghosting them for a few days if they try to initiate feeling conversations with him. He kind of wishes they would just go back to normal.

It's a few months of this behavior before some magician makes a remark about Tim's facial marks. Something along the lines of, "You okay, Red? You're aware of how dangerous it is for marks to progress as far as the face, right?"

Cause what happens when there's no more room for marks? Drastic decrease in physical health. Could lead to death.

The Bats overhear and promptly freak the fuck out again.

Tim, who has been dealing with their bullshit for the last few months and doesn't want to deal with the confrontation, disappears. He's waiting for them to process their shit before returning [he loves them but does not want to be caught in that fucking whirlwind. Bats notoriously do not handle emotions well]

[erinwantstowrite]

What do you think about Jason and Tim relationship? I know that fans are split between hatred for each other or the best brothers. But what do you think?

i fully believe that the writers dropped the ball on what to do with them.

i disagree with what they did with Jason coming back- they didn't have any direction for his character besides that they wanted a huge dramatic twist and Jason has stagnated because of it. him coming back as pretty much nothing like himself but then having zero good writing to convince me of his tragedy?? it's why a lot of people just ignore canon. if they were gonna bring him back, they should have gone in another direction.

if i HAD to keep jason as an anti hero, i would have written him to have a compulsion to protect Robin. a deep rooted fear where he projects his own time, experience, and feelings as Robin onto Tim (and even Stephanie!!) because of the damage that was done to him mentally. jason had long lasting brain damage. he was in a coma for months after he was suddenly revived, he was catatonic when Talia was taking care of him. the Lazarus pit might have healed that, but there would still be residual affects. Jason would feel younger than he is, he'd feel like a stranger in his own body. add on to that with severe cpstd, and you have a recipe for a kid (he was what, 18? 19? physically? when he got to Gotham?) who has a warped perception of his life and relationships. he would have memories that were forgotten to him, not just in his recovery stage but in the time before he died. he would have the feelings of a kid who wanted his dad to save him, who was angry at his mom for hurting him, who now has to struggle with why he ever came back at all. i'm sure he would be angry at everyone. he'd be confused and hurt and he wouldn't have a means to understanding his own feelings. but at his heart, jason was always a good kid, and he protected people, especially people who couldn't protect themselves

it makes no sense that jason came back wanting to hurt robin

so yeah, i'd have written him to be angry and volatile like a teen lashing out at a safe parent to be angry with, but when Tim or Steph were there, he'd dial it back immediately. at first it would be about not wanting to scare them, wanting to keep them safe as a way to help the kid that did die in that costume, somehow and someway. but eventually it would be about Jason seeing them, seeing how capable they are, and feeling protective over them, not just Robin.

but that isn't what happened, because the writers couldn't care less about how trauma actually effects people. they had him attack tim and become basically a sociopath and it felt like a cheap "gotcha!" twist that no one asked for

that being said, their canon relationship isn't terrible. in the beginning they didn't get along at all, obviously. but now, they have a respect for each other. they act like siblings. Tim has said multiple times that he doesn't hate Jason nor holds a grudge. Jason said that he should, but Tim didn't care. sometimes when I read them, I think about how well they might have gotten along if Jason never died. because let's be real, Tim was always headed for the Batfam with or without Jason's death. that's why fics where he's adopted earlier and Jason doesn't die are pretty popular. though in my opinion, they often overshadow that Dick and Tim are also brothers

i think they have a complicated history and relationship but they are siblings. they aren't texting each other everything (Dick and Tim, i fear) or having emotional conversations more than once every seven months but they'll play video games with each other, drop by unannounced to the other's house to eat their food and complain about something, and they work together well. they have a lot in common and they're both previously only children who became second children and eventually middle children. they both experienced neglect though it was very different versions.

in one universe where Tim had died, Jason mourned him. i think that says a lot about how they care about each other

if only the writers would let it STAY that way and not have Jason regress over and over just because they're terrified of character development

[nikiexe0]

So imagine if Damian was in a coma because he protected Bruce from a bullet and then a few months later tim also went into a coma because he was caught in an explosion with Bruce and then dick and Jason getting really mad at him like downright Furious and then saying it's all his fault and it wouldn't be long until he kills his next kid and them saying other really hurtful words and then Bruce holding back his ears because it is true that it's his fault and he should account for it

Them not knowing that Bruce actually got hurt quite bad and had his heart condition worsen and developed a persistent arrhythmia and then more dangerous illnesses but dick and jason don't know that because they were still really mad at Bruce and didn't think to actually check on their father's condition because they're so focused on the fact that every time their little Brothers got hurt it was because of Bruce (when he never meant any of that to happen)

Bruce's Condition getting worse and him barely able to move but Jason and Dick still hating on him and saying he should have never been a father and he could die in a ditch and Bruce smiling softly to them and avoiding them

One day

Them snapping at Bruce like normal when they're on patrol because they had need Bruce's help as Batman but them getting frustrated when Bruce couldn't actually help them because there was no lead.

them yelling at Bruce and shouting hurtful things again but Bruce seeing a timer attached to a bomb on a crate and instinctively put them both into a tight embrace covering them with his cape and protecting them from the explosion and Bruce getting hurt really really badly and then when they opened his scorched and melted chestplate, they just noticed that he had surgery marks on his heart and when they asked him in a frantically panicked induced state, Bruce calmly explaining that he had got hurt in the explosion with tim and his heart got weekend and he had arrhythmia and then him unconsciously stating that damian wasn't the only one who got hurt, another bullet also hit his abdomen and he had a really bad internal bleeding before the doctors could finally save him.

Then him looking at them with Love filled eyes and apologizing because he couldn't protect them more and couldn't protect their little brothers him saying all the hurtful words that they had said to himself and apologizing for every single one because he was such a useless father.

I know this is quite cringe but this would be so cute (...for me at least :D ) to read, im just not too good at words XD

[literallyjustforlurking]

Fight Little Wolf (Wolves)

The idea is that Jason is Telemachus reincarnated. This would make the beef between Percy and Jason on the Argo hilarious because it's like Jason's version of a teenage rebellion but also Jupiter having to deal Poseidon claiming Jason as his grandson. Because obviously any version of Poseidon's son is his son even if it's before his son exsisted. (He still refuses to acknowledge Odysseus as his son-in-law)

Athena is cooing over having her nephew/little brother back. Hermes and Poseidon are arguing over whose grandson Jason is.

Jason does not want to be anybody's grandson. Jason gets no say in this.

The best part though is when Annabeth and Jason are stuck in CHB for months while Percy is in his coma. Jason/Telemachus finally understands how his dad felt the entire time he was away from them. Annabeth/Odysseus doesn't understand why they can't just have their family together for one day, please.

Percy keeps hearing about this Jason dude at CJ and something about him makes a shiver runs up Percy's spine. Percy (incorrectly) identifies this as hatred. It is infact Penelope just being really upset that people keep forcing responabilites upon her son.

Because of this Percy is kinda hostile towards Jason when they first meet. Jason (who is excited to see his mother, the woman who raised him, who protected him from the suitors and who he protected in turn, the only solid presence in the first twenty years of his life) totalty doesn't break down crying when Percy gives him a slightly unimpressed look when they first get to New Rome, Why Would You Say That?

Neptune is really confused on when he got a grandson but is also will to fight Mercury over grandparental rites just for the lols.

Athena is planning on duking it out with Hera for mentorship rites.

I also have the feeling Hera really likes Penelope, who in Hera's opinion is the perfect mortal wife, so she is willing to co-parent Jason with her and just cut Zeus out of the equation entirely. Hera is not willing to share with Athena.

Odysseus!Annabeth is not willing to share with Hera who not only kidnapped Percy but also used magic to force Jason to be with Piper cheat on Reyna. This all reminds Odysseus!Annabeth way to much of Circe and Calypso and, just like everything else in her and Percy's lives, is giving the poor girl war flashbacks.

(I don't know whether or not Reyna and Jason were actually dating before Jason was taken but I think it would be funnier if they weren't and Odysseus!Annabeth is just desperatly projecting while Jason is despertly projecting becasue I just got you back please don't piss off another major olympian we're demigods I won't survive the ten years it takes for you to get back home)

Did this entire idea come from a post I saw that called Jason Lupa's little wolf? Yes, your point?

[lena-thinks-too-much]

Some post death Jason things that fanon gets wrong

1. Talia kidnaps a catatonic Jason from the hospital (or in some versions his dead body)

While generally speaking this isn't that big of a difference, I recently read Red Hood: Lost Days and the way Jason ends up with Talia is actually really interesting.

Jason claws his way out of his grave, which is public and unmarked and wanders out of the grave yard. He's catatonic due to the brain damage from what joker did and kinda just wanders along the highway trying to make it back home. Meanwhile whoever's security at the cemetery find Jason's grave, assume it was caused by grave robbers and decide that they'd rather cover it up instead of get in trouble for letting it happen. While this is happening Jason get's hit by a car on the road and police are called. Because he's legally dead he they fail to id him and he's admitted to a hospital as a John Doe. He's in a coma for some time and once he wakes up, he promptly runs away and begins living on the streets in crime alley. At some point some big guy tries to pick a fight with Jason and his training kicks in. Jason does a flip and someone recognizes the move as Robin. This leads to Talia finding out that Jason is alive and that's how she ends up taking him to the league of assassins.

2. Ra's was involved with Jason's training

Ra's wasn't really for doing anything with Jason. Even less so when they realized he was catatonic. He kinda let Talia do whatever she felt like but after a few months of no improvement from Jason, he insisted she called the whole thing off because it was a waste of league resources. This is what spurs Talia into shoving Jason into a lazarus pit. Which just pisses off Ra's.

3. Jason's revenge plan was due to Talia's manipulation

While Talia did tell jason that he "remains unavenged" she also told him to "not seek him out". I've always assumed the antecedent to "him" was Bruce.

In fact Jason's little revenge arc is something Talia was super against. He does the whole bomb under the batmobile thing soon after getting out of the pit but he fails to actually go through with it. Because Talia doesn't actually want Bruce dead she decides to distract Jason by sending him to specialists around the world.

I'm not 100% sure why she later shows him the pictures of Tim. Because that's the point where she sleeps with Jason (which is already a weird choice), leaves him the helmet, and seems to know Jason's going to go back to Gotham with this information.

But generally Talia was trying to keep Jason away from Bruce until he calmed down - which, considering dude kept killing his teachers was definitely going to be a bit.

4. Jason and Damian met in the league

Okay I'll start this one off by saying I love the fics that do this, but there seem to be a lot of people who genuinely believe this happened. Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but outside of the young justice universe, it's quite literally impossible.

Jason was being sent to instructors around the world after coming out of the pit. In fact he was technically being hunted by Ra's for daring to use the pit. Talia herself barely interacted with Jason. Damian certainly didn't.

The argument could be made that Damian and Jason met before the pit but Jason clearly has memories from when he was catatonic and from what I know, he doesn't recognize damian when he meets him later on.

5. Pit madness

Look, there's nothing quite as tasty as a Titan's Tower AU where Jason's stalking through the tower hopped up on pit rage with glowing green eyes only to fully lose his anger at seeing Tim Drake being a disaster of a human. Literally my favorite trope of all time. I highly doubt there's a fic under this tag that I haven't read yet.

That being said pit rage or pit madness quite literally doesn't exist. The closest thing we get in the comics is a temporary burst of madness immediately following exposure to the lazarus pit. But it doesn't last. Definitely not as long as some people seem to believe.

Jason isn't the only person to use the pits in the comics. The Al Ghul's obviously but also bruce takes his own swim later on. But Jason's the only one people think have pit madness (and also Ra's Al Ghul but he doesn't count because there's no way you survive 7 centuries without going insane). The closest thing we see to pit madness in the comics is when Nyssa tortures Talia with her personal lazarus pit (that she experimented on) by repeatedly kiled and revived her until she quite literally breaks Talia's mind.

The pit madness that people attribute to Jason, however, most closely resembles the kind of bloodlust and animalistic behavior we see from people who use the lazarus pits in the Arrowverse, and no one is ever going to accuse that of being canon. So yeah these are just some things that while I actually quite enjoy reading in fanfics, they aren't actually true and it genuinely astounds me, how many people think it's canon and not fanon.

let me know if I missed any or got something wrong because I'm mostly working off my memorie for the red hood lost days references.

disclaimer: I'm fully aware that fanon ≠ canon. However these are things that I see a lot of fans treating as fact and that just generally irks me. Like I'm all for cherry picking the timelines and details that you like and adding your headcanons into the mix. It's the best part of fandom. But also I think it's important to at least be aware of what's canonical (although with DC that does generally turns into a mess)

[liedownquisition]

Jason Todd's timeline and "Age"

So, there's a lot of discussion of Jason Todd's age esp as relative to other sidekick vigilantes, particularly Tim and Mia. I believe the exact words are usually something about a "grown ass man beating up/trying to kill teenagers."

DISCLAIMER: This particular post is specifically regarding the "grown ass man vs teenagers" statement, I have posts regarding the "tried to kill them" portion and other stuff like "seriously Jason Todd is like being shot by a marshmallow gun compared to what goes on directly before and after him in these incidents, also you don't bitch about the right stuff, also a lot of you prop up characters who are Objectively Worse, and no that's not hate on your fave it's just me calling out hypocrisy". It just takes time to find digital copies of the panels I'm using. NOTE I AM NOT JUSTIFYING HIS ACTIONS. I'm just saying y'all blow it out of proportion for petty character hate. Like, shit, they're superheroes. Jason's soooo fuckin' tame. He's not even framed as a big deal to the teens it's only the adults that think it's that much of a problem.

Courtesy readmore post cut:

Now, to start off, we all know Jason died at 15 & a few months off from 16 (if you want me to dig up panels, sure, but I figured at this point that wasn't in question). Tim at this point is somewhere between 12-13, and we have this panel in Lonely Place of Dying which takes place a few months later:

So that's a ballpark of 2-3 years between Jason and Tim.

But Tim's age is really fucky and they keep de-aging him tbh. We can extrapolate that his confrontation with Jason was between the ages of 16-17 bcs it's after the arc where he has his incredibly shitty 16th birthday in Robin Vol2 #116 and before Red Robin where he's stated to be 17. This would put Jason between 18-19 at the time. (If you really want me to find panel sources for Tim's birthday and his age in RR then, sure, but I don't think they're necessary. I used it more as a guidepost for Jason's age, since we have a clear idea of what the age gap is.)

At least, on paper.

Mia for her part I've had a hard time finding like, on panel mentions of her age and if anyone can direct me to it being explicitly stated I'd love that. I'm rereading old comics but it's a LOT of comics to hunt down & dig through. To my understanding she was fifteen when Ollie first met her, and there's at Minimum of about a year and a half between that to her meeting Red Hood, more likely at least two? because there's at least few months between that and her joining the Titans, the Doctor Light stuff, then One Year Later, and then returned to Star some 3 months after Ollie came back to run for mayor? And then Jason not too long after. So, two years feels safe. Puts her at 17-ish, Jason at 19-20

Once again, I specify: on paper.

People would happily point out at this point that the upward stretch of a 4 year age gap is a "huge gap in maturity." And yeah, under normal circumstances, I'd agree.

But, and this is going to get contradictory bcs I found Two different timelines (BOTH written by Winick, lmao), and depending on how you read it it could be up to three different possibilities. Let's Start with Batman Annual #25: Daedalus & Icarus.

Timestamp before Jason's resurrection, which is pretty well known at this point:

Next, him waking up from a coma afterwards, when he escapes the hospital:

Now the above could be interpreted as either 1 year after he died if we're assuming that it's using the same "start" point to count as the resurrection (unlikely), or one year after he came back (more likely).

Next, the timestamp right before a guy recognizes him and sells him out:

And, finally, the timestamp before being put in the Pit:

That is, count it up, between 3-3 1/2 years where Jason was dead, in a coma, or otherwise not particularly... cognizant of the world around him. His ass is NOT developing emotionally, socially, or mentally like this, which pretty handily bridges the gaps there. Taken at face value, Jason's maturity level is going to be, unironically, younger than Tim's in the wake of these setbacks.

Now, if we go to Lost Days issue 1, it doesn't specify how long he was dead, nor how long he was in a coma, so we'll just carry those two over, what we DO have is this from just after Talia brought him home:

This puts him as being on the streets for five months, so we're at just shy of two years so far. And then we have this:

Which is right before Talia puts him in the Pit.

So, in summary: 6 months dead, 1 year coma, 5 months on the street, and something like 1-1 1/2 years with the League which...

Actually puts us on almost the exact same timeframe either way. 3 to 3 1/2 years. It just changes whether Jason was on the streets or with the League for longer.

And is utterly incomprehensible because comic timelines are a freaking nightmare.

If we're being generous, then that would put Jason at a minimum of 19, maybe toeing the line of 20 for UTRH, again, on paper, because like hell are you convincing me he did less than a year's worth of training abroad throughout Lost Days. Yeah maybe they trained him in fighting while he was catatonic, muscle memory and all that. But the other teachers that we KNOW of? The bombs, guns, probably something to get him up to date on handling all that tech we see him using, Egon, potentially arguably All-Caste if you want to draw from n52...

but you'd have to knock at least a year and a half off of his internal/personal development from death & coma, at minimum. Maybe you could argue he was somewhat developing while in his "the lights are on, but nobody's home" phase, you can't say it's at the same level as a normal person might when going about their day to day life, and it's difficult to measure. But he's not hitting the kind of milestones that he should be for his age. I wouldn't put him at anything less than two years behind. So if we use our upper estimates on Jason, and lower estimates on both the developmental setbacks and Tim/Mia's ages that gives us:

Jason toeing 20, mentally 18, fighting Tim at 16. 2 year gap, kind of stretching the physical age gap if we assume Tim had just barely turned 13 when he showed up to be Robin. - OR LESS

Jason maybe 21, mentally 19, fighting Mia at 17, two year age gap again. Honestly, still not that big of a difference - OR LESS

And, to be frank, that's not even counting the mental development issues that come from the intense physical trauma from dying - and I swear to fuck don't give me the "He's not the only one who died he's not special" speech.

HOW MANY OF THE OTHERS YOU'RE USING AS A GOTCHA LOST, *GESTURING AGGRESSIVELY ABOVE*, LITERALLY MULTIPLE YEARS OF THEIR LIFE.

Not counting adults, of course. Barry lost years, Hal lost years, Ollie I think also lost a couple years? but A) they came back still adults, bodies pretty much the same. B) While Jason's body didn't go through a magic growth spurt in canon, it did still grow esp while with the League.

I'll eventually get around to Titan's Tower & GA#72 (tbh, there are other people who've already done Titan's Tower and it'd probably be better than what I do, so I'm more going to focus on the latter, but there IS a specific part of the former that drives me nuts that I don't see brought up a lot), and maybe if we're feeling spicy all my issues with UTRH starting with how Winick is just as guilty of retroactively writing Jason as being inherently a bad penny since his Robin days as any of the other "modern" writers. Like, bud, Severe enough Head Trauma is legitimately enough to change someone's personality, not to mention trauma. It wouldn't hurt your narrative for that eerie difference, the Shade of What Once Was if you're really going for RH being Like that.

Final addition: I swear to god if you use my post to start up some kind of petty-ass ship war or flame other characters I will immediately turn off reblogs and replies I am Not Dealing With That Shit, please and thank you.

Anyways, @glitter-stained, your interest made me decide to actually put the work in now to pull it up rather than passively gather stuff to dump whenever discourse pushes me over the edge so, here ya are. Looks like you did have it closer on the mark than I did.

[haithhegimp]

Jason Todd is Mentally Sixteen During Under The Red Hood*

(The overly long introduction is all in brackets! You will not experience too much confusion should you choose to skip, so feel free to skip. The content of the post will be under the cut.

*As always with the DCU, consistency is far more dead than the Waynes could ever be. This post is about Jason's timeline from UTRH, and only UTRH. I will use a couple of sources from other places for information we cannot confirm from UTRH, but can vaguely assume are true there. However I will not be talking about the timelines from other media, and especially not other continuities, in this post. I will also be interpreting certain scenes, and that ultimately makes this post somewhat subjective.

I love UTRH a lot, and I found that most other Jason fans love it too. We often use it as a major content source and base a lot of our opinions and feelings surrounding Jason on it. However, in hyperfixating and re-reading it several times over, I have realised that a lot of us miss a major detail that gets exposition-ed to us in Chapter 14/[Batman(1940) Annual #25]!

Of course, if you've come to the same conclusions as I have, and choose to ignore them, then absolutely more power to you. I'm not here to police which canon you folks choose to stitch together and treat as your own, if you choose to interact with canon at all. These are all just comics, have fun!

On top of that, it sometimes gets vague and up to interpretation (which is honestly an aspect I kind of like) so this can all be considered my own opinion if you personally disagree with an interpretation I make <3

Anyways, a lot of us enjoy the angst factor that comes out of Jason being young, but not many of us realise exactly how young he is. This is something I wish to explain to you folks for your content consumption pleasure ^^

Overly long introduction done, yo!)

1. Jason dies at 15 years old.

I am so sorry, I could not find a primary source for this.

Secondary Source A- Word of mouth. Various different Tumblr and Reddit posts I have found when looking this up have listed Jason as being 15 when he dies. Including this post from @thebatmanfiles-blog, this post from @fuckyeahjasontodd, this post from @oh-mother-of-darkness, and these posts from u/GooderCand and u/InDarknessOftFindI

Secondary Source B- Jason's death certificate from [The Batman Files]

Not to be mistaken for [Batman Secret Files], Matthew K. Manning's [The Batman Files] is not a canon DC property work, to my knowledge. (It's honestly kind of confusing, but I'm listing this as a secondary source because I am... pretty sure that [The Batman Files] is not a canon DC property, it is not available on the DC Database Fanwiki or the Official DC Website).

2. Jason Is Revived Six Months After His Death

[Under The Red Hood #14] / [Batman (1940) Annual #25] *(This is just a fun fact, feel free to skip. The page of Jason being alive is taken directly from the, at the time unreleased, [Batman #428: Robin Lives!], with only being slightly recoloured. Due to the gimmick of Jason's death, [Batman (1940) #428] had two different versions drawn out, and though I wasn't able to find any interviews or comments about this on shallow research, it's nice to imagine that the producers of UTRH wanted to showcase Aparo and DeCarlo's unseen efforts ^^)

Jason was originally supposed to live (according to the narration)-- we can use this to say that his injuries (by comic book logic) were non-fatal.

Jason, in his coffin, is shown with the same injuries as his dying-but-not-supposed-to-die-body-- we can use this to say he is biologically 15 when revived.

After Revival Jason's Chronological Age- 15.5 Jason's Biological Age- 15 Jason's Mental Age- 15

3. Jason Gets Into A Coma For One Year

[Under The Red Hood #14] / [Batman (1940) Annual #25]

After digging himself out of the grave, Jason is hit by a car (man, he cannot catch a break)

He is hospitalized and operated on, before going into a coma for One Year

General-Comic-Book-Logic and Actual Research (I sincerely apologize but I'm not looking through genuine medical documents to verify this one, I'm just gonna trust the basic google search) both agree that coma patients do not mentally age

This means Jason's mental age stagnates for One Year

One Year After Revival Jason's Chronological Age- 16.5 Jason's Biological Age- 16 Jason's Mental Age- 15

4. Jason Spends Two Years Catatonic*

[Under The Red Hood #14] / [Batman (1940) Annual #25] *The original describes this state as Jason being run by his instincts, without reason, clarity, or memory. Fans have labeled this as catatonia. I will be referring to this state as catatonia for convenience sake.

Jason wakes up from his coma, but is catatonic

He spends One Year being homeless and living off of instincts (man, he CANNOT catch a break)

[Under The Red Hood #14] / [Batman (1940) Annual #25]

An international game of telephone occurs when a thug sees Jason doing some Robin moves

The Al Ghul's are at the end of the line and kidnap Jason

They keep him, in his catatonic state, for One Year

It is unclear, at this point, whether Jason's catatonia has impaired his mental aging

Three Years After Revival Jason's Chronological Age- 18.5 Jason's Biological Age- 18 Jason's Mental Age- ???

5. Jason Gets Dunked Into The Lazarus Pit

[Under The Red Hood #14] / [Batman (1940) Annual #25]

Here is where my interpretation comes in,

Jason's first words upon leaving the Pit are ["What!? What is happening to me!?"]

Jason, while running away with Talia asks, ["Talia?! What the hell do you-- Where was--!"]

Both of these show Jason being confused about his situation, and unsure of his surroundings. Especially the confusion in ["Talia?!"] means that he is surprised/confused to see her.

All of this goes to say-- he doesn't have any memory of how he came to be in this situation, and he doesn't have any memory of his time being catatonic.

HOWEVER!!! The possible counter-argument is that during his remembering sequence, Talia is a figure on screen, which has the mild implication that she is something he remembers?? This contradicts my interpretation but also has less evidence.

[Under The Red Hood #14] / [Batman (1940) Annual #25]

Jason remembers his death and the events leading up to it, but there is no mention of whether or not he remembers his years being catatonic.

I interpret this as him not remembering.

With My Interpretations, Three Years After Revival Jason's Chronological Age- 18.5 Jason's Biological Age- 18 Jason's Mental Age- 15

6. Jason Prepares For Being Red Hood

[Under The Red Hood #14] / [Batman (1940) Annual #25]

We get that... and then the BTS of Hush. That's literally all we get.

It's so unclear, I'm sorry it's really sort of impossible to give you even a vague estimate of how much time passes.

I've been trying to comb through the rest of UTRH to find things but we only get clear time stamps after Jason's debut as Red Hood. (i may have missed something, though! feel free to lmk if youve found a time stamp in UTRH before Jason's debut)

I only have my personal thoughts that it was probably a year or less between this and Jason's debut.

For the purposes of this post, we'll just say that roughly a year passes with training and preparation.

7. Jason Debuts As Red Hood

[Under The Red Hood #1] / [Batman (1940) #635]

So, at the start of Under The Red Hood, Four-ish Years After Revival Jason's Chronological Age- 19 - 20 Jason's Biological Age- 19 Jason's Mental Age- 16

And alternatively, if you mentally age him during his catatonic era, Jason's (alt) Mental Age- 18

(Now it is time for the Overly Long Conclusion! These will just be more of my personal thoughts and comments, and will be within brackets as well ^^

Honestly, despite me piecing this version of canon together, I don't usually subscribe to it lol. I find UTRH Jason attractive, and canon is what you choose to Frankenstein together, so I usually place him as actually around 19.

But if you consider the events of UTRH through the lense of a deeply traumatized and angsty teenager, that happens to have way too much power? It feels... oddly logical? Like, through this perspective, I look at Jason telling Bruce that he's the better Batman in quite possibly the most dramatic way ever and I go, "Oh of course he would, he's sixteen. I would say shit like that at sixteen if I had even half the baggage."

TBH, I don't think that Winnick actually considered this timeline when writing UTRH Jason, but it fits together really funnily well with his character.

It also makes everything quite a lot more tragic. With this perspective, its more than just losing his teenagehood to shitty circumstances. He is actively and presently still a teenager, a child, when in shitty circumstances. Jason is a sixteen year old child when his father slits his throat.

Actual For Realsies Not Just By Technicality Teenage Crime Lord is absolutely insane, deeply tragic, and more than a little bit funny to me.

If you read through all of this, I'd absolutely love to hear your thoughts and perspectives. Whether you see where I'm coming from, whether you have a completely different perspective, or whether you like thinking of this only sometimes! Hell, even if it's just to cry with me over The Tragedy of Jason Todd, I'd love to chat.

Thank you for your time, if you made it all the way through! Overly Long Conclusion done, yo!)

[My Drawing, lol]

[thevoidstaredback]

Bruce was absolutely correct. His family might actually be from Hell. And Danny’s been there before, so he knows what he’s talking about.

Okay, so maybe that’s an exaggeration, but it’s not a big one. If anything, it’s doing them justice.

Dick had come back from topside with nine other people toting behind him. Immediately, Danny could name Red Robin, Robin, Black Bat, and Signal, but the others all eluded him.

Once everyone was sitting (Bruce at the head with the old man behind his right shoulder, Dickk to his right, a redheaded lady beside him, Timothy in the next seat, Damian a chair down, then Duke, the others all sitting across, and Danny taking a chair to the foot of the table), Bruce cleared his throat. “”Everyone, this is Danny. You know him as Phantom.”

Danny smiled smally and waved.

The brick shithouse across from Dick scoffed. “Phantom’s a kid. This guy is an adult.”

“Aw, you noticed? Thanks.” Danny defaults to ‘sarcastic little shit’ sometimes when nervous. Great time for that.

The blonde across from Timothy snorted. “I like him.” She leaned over the empty seat between her and Cassandra. “I’m Spoiler, but you can call me Steph. Call me ‘Stephinie’, and I’ll kick your ass.”

“Aw, you’re not supposed to tell him!” Dick whined.

Damian was assessing him. Danny could feel it. “I am Damian.”

“Nice to meet you, Damian,” Danny greeted, “You’re Robin, right?”

The kid sat up a little taller. “Yes.”

“Best damn Robin I’ve ever met, that’s for sure.”

Damian preened, but it was covered by the indignant shouts of the other four Robins. Dick’s voice carried over them all, though. “Hey! I thought I was your favorite!”

“Yeah,” Danny agreed, “You are my favorite, but Damian’s the best Robin.”

“Now that’s just not fair!”

“Can we focus, guys?” The redhead beside Dick chuckled. “I’m Barbra. Across from Dick is Jason. Across from Tim is Steph. Across from Damian is Cass. Duke is next to Damian, and Kate is next to Cass.”

Danny nodded along, looking at each person as their name was said. “And you, sir?”

The old man smiled kindly. “I am Alfred, the family butler.”

“Nice to meet you, sir!”

“Likewise, Master Phantom.”

“No matter how many times I hear that, it’s still weird.” Danny muttered. He turned his full attention to Bruce. “So? You dragged me here. What’s up?”

The line between Bruce and Batman was blurred again. “The League of Assassins is our major suspect on the Coma Case.” A hologram opened up over the table, pulling everyone’s eyes to it. “With what we know, we can assume they’re trying to get into the Infinite Realms, Phantom’s Domain, by creating a portal. Without the proper protections, they will die. However, exposure to the Lazarus Pits has given Ra’s, as well as Talia and other trusted servants, natural resistance to the hostile environment that make up the Realms.”

The group waited a moment before deciding that it was now an open discussion.

“Prolonged exposure to the Pits was limited to Grandfather, Mother, four servants who were rotated out every few years, and whomever was being submerged.”

Jason snorted. “Yeah, but does getting dunked one time really count as P.E?”

“I’d imagine, based on the definition, only eight to ten minutes at a time, but that’s several minutes at a time over a month or a year.” Barbra said.

Kate hummed. “Phantom, what exactly are the Lazarus Pits? Why do they have any connection to the Realms?”

“Please, call me Danny,” he waved. “I’ve never actually seen these ‘Pits’, so I can’t give you a sure answer. However, from what I understand, they were probably a gift from the Realms Herself. Did anyone else have access to them before Ra’s?”

Timothy shook his head. “No. Ra’s was experimenting to find a cure for a sultan’s son when he found the Pits. He found them, so he named them.”

“Didn’t take the guy as the religious type.” Steph muttered. Cass giggled softly.

Danny frowned. “That changes things, but only slightly. If She didn’t give this world the Pit, then it’s probably runoff from the Realms.”

Dick looked to be hiding a smirk. “What kind of runoff?”

“I don’t know, waste? Excess energy? Maybe it was supposed to be a portal, but lacks the actual activation.”

The table burst into laughter, minus Jason and Damian. Jason looked disgusted while Damian looked inconvenienced.

Duke was the first one to catch his breath. “You- you two got thrown into a cesspit!”

It was Danny’s turn to wrinkle his nose in disgust. “I didn’t say the Pit’s cesspit. I just said it might be made up of waste from the Realms.” This made the table laugh harder.

It wasn’t until another few minutes later that Alfred cleared his throat. “As hilarious as that is to know, you are in the middle of an investigation.”

“Right, of course,” Bruce was still trying to hide chuckles, “Thank you, Alfred.

“Of course, Master Bruce.”

Cass tapped the table, signing as she spoke once all eyes were on her. “‘Lacks activation’?”

The question was aimed at Danny, so he answered. “Natural Portals can always be found where there’s been a sudden influx of electricity, like the sight of a lightning strike or an electrical fire, but they don’t last any longer than a few hours at most. And, unless you’re looking for them, you won’t find them.”

“Can one open up anywhere?” Kate asked.

“Yeah, as long as the conditions are met.”

“Why?” Bruce’s voice was serious again.

Danny uncrossed his legs and leaned his arms on the table. “Your world is one realm inside the In Between. Do you have a pen and paper?” Alfred was quick to get the requested idioms. “Thanks.” He drew a small circle in the corner of the page. “This is your realm, the one we’re in.” He drew several other small circles across the page. “These are other realms, afterlives, and Lairs.” He drew a circle to encompass all of the smaller ones. “This is the Realms, the In Between. Because She holds All- because She is All, a doorway can open anywhere as long as someone has the key. Make sense?” He moved on without waiting for answers, putting the pen down. “To answer what’s probably your next question, the Lazarus Pits could probably just be a doorway that’s been cracked open only enough for a little light to peek through. Ectoplasm - the stuff the Realms are made of - is harmful on its own when it’s been exposed for long enough. Stuff straight out of the Realms, like activated portals, has revival properties.”

“You just said that the Lazarus Pits are runoff of waste from the Realms.” Timothy cut in.

“No, I said it might be that. It’s probably more likely that whatever Ra’s was messing with when he found the Pits activated it just enough to act like a door with it’s chain up; It’s not open because the proper key wasn’t used. But, it’s open just enough to allow the revival properties through without killing whoever’s immediately near it.”

“Could Ra’s have somehow found a way to keep it open?” Bruce brainstormed, “If it’s supposed to close after an amount of time, then could he have found a way to reopen it just that little bit over and over again?”

Danny hummed. “It’s unlikely, but not impossible. I’d have to see it to tell one way or another, but that’s looking like the most likely answer.”

“Then why would he need an unnatural portal?” Dick, the only other one who’d been at the meeting, inquired, “If he already knows how to get what he wants, why try to open another door?”

“Because he’s a megalomaniac?” Timothy offered up.

Damian didn’t rise to the defense of is Grandfather, though he was frowning. “There are legends about being of the Dead, creatures that rule over Life and Death. Perhaps he wishes to challenge one? Or to become one?”

Danny scoffed. “Good luck with that. Osiris aren’t pushovers in any aspect. They gained their titles rightfully. Besides, if it’s power he’s after, then he’s more likely to challenge the King.”

“Aren’t you the King?” Duke said.

“Yep.”

“What’s your plan of attack then, your majesty?”

“I can hear that you didn’t use capitals,” Danny playfully scoffed. “If we've assumed correctly and it is the League of Assassins or whatever, then why not just kill this Ra’s guy?”

“I will not allow you to kill Grandfather!” Damian shouted.

Danny threw his hands up in surrender, “Okay, okay. Murder is off the table. My next solution is to wait him out. Shut down his portal project, wait for him to die on his own, and then pull him through the gap in the door into the Realms. Then, I’ll have him in my domain and he can spend the proper sentence time in Walker’s Prison.”

“I’m sorry,” Jason very calmly put his hands on the table and looked Danny in the eye. “There’s a prison in the Realms?”

“Yeah? Realms Beings are really the only ones who end up there, but exceptions have been made. And, with the amount of times this Ra’s guy has been dunked in the Pit, he’s practically guaranteed to appear in the Realms before moving onto his chosen afterlife.”

“Well that certainly makes me feel better.” Kate muttered sarcastically.

Duke raised his hand slightly. “What if he succeeds in making an artificial portal?”

Danny felt a shiver run down his spine, phantom sparks of electricity running up his left arm. “Then the exposure to the Realms will kill him and anyone near the portal.”

Bruce hummed again. He does that a lot. “How do the Osiris come to be?”

“Just call us Halfas,” he waved, “Inorder to become one, you have to die, but only halfway, hence the human name. But, because this guy’s already died so many times, he has no chance of becoming a Halfa. Maybe the first time, but he’s long since passed the opportunity.”

“What’s our plan of attack, B?” Barbra asked. “We can’t go after the LoA without major consequences.”

The cave - Cave? - elapsed into silence.

“Maybe,” Timothy spoke after a while, “We can’t go after them without Talia storming Gotham, and we can assume the same consequence if any of the Justice League or the protege teams try, too. But what about the JLD?” When no one spoke up, he continued. “Think about it. The JLD will know how to handle this better than anyone else. And, everyone knows they only ever do their own thing. The JLD and the JL don’t actively communicate unless they’re forced by a World Ending Threat to work together.”

Kate’s eyebrow raised. “That’s crazy enough reasoning, it could work.”

“Phantom?”

“I’ll talk to the JLD tonight and get back to you as soon as we’ve got it figured out.”

“Good.”

“If you don’t mind my interruption?” Alfred said from over by the elevator. What did he leave? When did he have time to cook? “Dinner is served.”

Part 19 Part 21

[glitter-stained]

I don't know if you've already talked about this but I've seen a couple panels where Jason encourages underage drinking (with Tim specifically) and I was wondering what your thoughts were on that. Personally I think it's out of character for him, but then again, a lot of his rules about kids don't apply to Tim

So you have to understand that I don't mean to be rude or mean or anything but I think your perspective is so alien to me I simply don't know how to answer this question.

In Germany, the legal drinking age is 16. My experience with underage drinking is like, that time we drank straight out of the tap of the beer fountain at a party when I was fourteen (supplied to us by a friend's mom), drinking vodka at another party at 15, etc. Did we do it frequently? Absolutely not. Did our parents know about this? You bet they did. Should we maybe not have done some of that stuff? Maybe. I do know about binge-drinking and the developing teenage brain. I also genuinely believe that the fact I knew we didn't have to go behind our parents' backs too much was good for our rebellious asses, because 15 years old me for sure would have drank myself into a coma just to stick it to my mom if she had forbidden it entirely, and doubly so if it had been illegal. The understanding of biological mechanisms and health risks, threat of tremendous hangovers and the resources provided and accessible to us in highschool were much better deterrents/reasons to not drink or drink reasonably than if everyone had made a big deal out of it. All of this to say, my perspective of underage drinking is very, very different from the one you suggest in this ask, and I genuinely have a hard time trying to figure out how "Jason suggesting him and Tim (sixteen according to the panel if i recall correctly, logic be damned) drink alcohol together" would constitute a violation of Jason's rule to the Gotham gang leaders of "don't sell drugs to children". Like there is a world of difference between handing a twelve years old a baggie of heroine and Jason and Tim performing "underage drinking" by US-American standards (which are, to my non-US-American eyes, completely baffling). Unless of course we assume that the only drugs Gotham trades in are weed, alcohol and tobacco.

On top of that I think our understanding of the characters' dynamic differs greatly. Tim and Jason in post-crisis have a two years difference, three max; Cut 6 months dead, 1 year for coma, and then I cut off the two years he spent "catatonic" because he was in a deeply altered state of mind, though this position is debated amongst fans. When Jason comes back, he's thus 16-17, 18 at a big, big maximum. Tim is at the very least older than 16 since they made a big deal of his 16th birthday with the psychological abuse conspiration test plot. All this to say: I'm assuming you're referring to Jason's attack on Titan Tower when you say Jason makes exceptions to his rules with Tim, but I just don't see it, since A) Jason and Tim are in the same age-range, give or take one or two years on either side, and B) neither of them is a child in that comic, which is the earliest they meet and thus the youngest they are in their interactions: they're in their middle-to-late teens. So while I do agree that Jason's rule in UTH can be broadened to an interpretation of "don't fuck with kids", I think this is a complete non-issue wrt his fight with Tim (or Mia, btw), especially from Jason's perspective; otherwise him drinking and fighting people would also be a violation of his rules. Now I do want to say wrt Tim's age, it is later retconning (in the panel you're referencing) to be a little lower (I think he's sixteen in that panel?) because dc doesn't want to let tim drake age. That's still not a big age difference, Jason is still very young in that panel, DC just has a vested interest in keeping Tim young and making you forget how young Jason is. They're still in the same broad age-range. And because this retcon happens later than the titan tower fight, and no explanation that deaged tim's origin has been granted to my knowledge, that retcon has no bearing on the actual power dynamic at stake in the TT fight.

I genuinely don't mean to come off as mean or rude, though I'm aware that I probably do despite my best effort, I just... I feel like both our worldview and our view of the characters differ too much for anything I have to say on the matter to be of any interest to you, idk.

[shepherdsheart]

Dont Blame the Boy

DpxDc Prompt

Bruce was no stranger to taking in children into his home considering the many he called his own. So he was no stranger to the struggles of a new family member, each of his children had been different.

Dick had been out for blood when Bruce first took him into his home. The boy grieving for his parents was set on revenge and had promised to make there killer pay. How different he was now compared to the child he first brought home.

Then there was Jason who at first was angry and miss understood. But as time went he began to see the book loving boy who loved to learn. He was always enthusiastic to learn but he could be brash and hard headed at first. Jason still held a great love for learning but the young man was no loner as open with the family and he had developed quite a dark sense of humor.

Tim of course was a kind and smart young man with a love for knowledge. The boy was a natural genius though he did need some encouragement at first.

Bruce could go on and on about them and his other children. He was proud of how far they had all come with Damian the most recent addition before now.

Now though he was faced with a challenge, he was faced with young Daniel or Danny as the boy preferred. Danny had only lived in the manner for about 2 months now and still they had no progress of pulling the boy out of his shell.

Bruce had been reluctant at first to take in such an unstable child but when he met the boy he couldn’t say no. Seeing such pain and distrust in the boys eyes broke Bruce’s heart.

Danny had fallen victim to his parents over a year ago when they had decided he was something no longer human and as such needed to be researched. They had experimented on there own child for over a year before the boy finally broke. The boy had snapped after all the tournament they had put him through before he went on a rage filled massacre.

To put it lightly there wasn’t much left of the Fentons by the time the police arrived to investigate a call made by some concerned citizens.

With the state of the lab and Danny himself the police had called in the League for assistance where Danny was then rushed to the tower for emergency care.

Danny had been in a medically induced coma for over a month because of his violent reaction to anyone who approached him. And after he was put through intensive therapy mental and physical with several doctors.

It had been months sense then and the boy no longer acted like a caged animal but he was still very much an animal, lashing out when he felt threatened or cornered, retreating when things became to much and he didn’t blame him.

Bruce understood why the boy didn’t trust people, didn’t trust adults. After years of people failing him and the year of torment? He didn’t blame him.

Bruce didn’t blame the boy though and he was certain that with time and care Danny would come out of his shell and join the rest of the flock but till then they would work the best they could to make him feel safe and comfortable.

No he didn’t blame the boy at all

[space-dreams-world]

Inspired by this:

Except there's a twist: Danny adopts Dick, Jason, and maybe Tim.

Danny moved to Gotham (not bad end, but Vlad gets killed, trying to help Danny escape Amity Park, after de aging Dan and Ellie. Fentons, in their confusion and anger, make it even more unsafe for Danny to live there. Fortunately, Vlad made Danny his heir awhile ago, and in leaving, Amity closed their portal and Vlads. Vlad is a full ghost now. So now Danny is a runaway pregnant genderfluid teen that moves to Gotham, whether it be before the wayne murders or after. Jordan isn't born until a year into living in Gotham.)

He sets up a bakery/cafe near crime alley with his apartment on top of it and lab in the basement. He also owns a warehouse that he uses as a storage and training zone. He never makes homeless people pay, and if you can, it's a dollar. Even ghosts show up. He gets to know batman starting out and even maybe starts to court him as bats. They don't officially date until after catwoman reject his proposal, and Damian is permanently with Bruce.

Danny, while not at the circus prior to Graysons' murder, sees an escaped juvie grayson and is able to calm him down, even gets him to speak with his parents again and Danny with the help of Gotham threatens/scares Zucco into fearing for his life. He doesn't bring him back to Juvie but manages to save Dick's things and important paperwork. They declare him missing despite being needed in witness protection. Bruce wants to care for Dick but he doesn't have the same connection to Dick and sees Danny as his own Alfred, when B parents died. Danny raises Dick with a little help from Bruce.

Cannon events also happen, so Two-face and Joker get ahold of Dick for being near Batman and get beaten and shot. Danny brings Dick to the Far frozen and they heal him and he ensures to Two face/Joker that he will feel the same pain as what he has dealt to Dick and almost kills Joker but gets left with a warning.

Court of Owls actually loses Talons to Danny and are his and his kids' bodyguards now while trying to learn how heal them. Unfortunately, Bruce pulls back from the relationship with Danny, and this hurts them both.

Then,when Jason is on the streets, he sticks to near Danny's place and eventually gets adopted, too. Eleanor is born after. Jason loves his new family and is surprised that Bruce is back to dating Danny again. (Which hurts Dick because Bruce only came back for Jason)

In this scenario, Shelia reaches out to Jason for bribery reasons, and when Joker shows up, Danny is having none of it. He kills Mr. J crushes his soul and brings Jason to the Yeti, where he flatlines and gets to become a halfa instantly. This time, Danny is the one that pulls from Bruce as he never found out where Danny took Dick and now Jason to heal. So in the 6 months Jason was in the Zone practicing, Bruce took the worst of it and thought he was dead, but in reality Jason in the zone training with his powers and Dick helps out with his enhanced liminality. What seems like a death to Bruce is a coma or a loss of mobility for Jason. Bruce just assumes he's dead.

Dick grows up to be either a gymnast instructor or a social worker. Jason would be studying for literature or social or justice reform. Dan is a mechanic or security guard. He works part-time at the cafe and helps with branding and making the sweets. Jason, Jordan, and Ellie also help in the shop. Stephanie is a part timer.

Tim, during one of his photoscapedes, gets caught, and Danny and/or the kids save him and bring him to Danny. Tim, while dealing with years of parental neglect, stays with them, or Danny notifies Bruce of this. Either Tim stays with Danny, and despite Drakes having more money and power, Danny's otherness freaks them out and they decide fuck this or similar to cannon, Bruce adopts Tim.

Bruce, by the end of this, officially only has one or three kids: Damian, Cass, and/or Tim.

[I don't know if I want the boys into vigilante. It seems hypocritical for Danny to say no to vigilantism,but in another reality to this one, Danny says yes to the boys being vigilantes]

Hilariously, Danny and his kids show up to a Gala as Masters Heirs.

Jazz moves to Gotham after College to either be a doctor or work in Arkham.

Sam, while trying to leave her parents grasp, goes to Gotham for personal reasons and her parents threaten to cut her off from her inheritance unless she shows up at important events or Galas to support the Manson name.

Tucker is a tech fan and also moves to Gotham, but it is a bit of a recluse, but he takes an interest in teaching Babs, Dick and Tim in Hacking. He is an IT guy for Wayne Industries and an app creator.

[camillomea]

red bond 1:

here is first episode i hope you like it.

When Tim woke up, he heard voices coming from inside. When he opened his eyes, he was in his room. There was a weight on his chest. When he looked there, there was a cat on his chest, its eyes open and looking at him. He meowed. Tim said, “Good morning to you too Nora.” The cat meowed again and got off his chest. Tim straightened up. He stood up. Nora had gone to his shoulders and wrapped her neck like a scarf as he stood up.

He went to the door and opened it. Hesitantly, he said, “Jay.” The voices suddenly stopped. Footsteps were heard.

Jason stuck his head into the hallway and asked, “Timmy, are you awake?”

Tim nodded, “Good morning,” he said.

Jason asked, “Good morning BabyBird, how are you feeling?”

Tim said, “Better,” smiling.

Jason ruffled his hair, “Breakfast is ready.” Tim nodded silently.

Jason asked, “Did Nora decide to be your neck warmer today?” Tim nodded silently. Jason gently petted Nora. Nora hummed. Jason ruffled Tim's hair with his other hand. Tim leaned on his hand. They went to the kitchen. Tim was slightly unsteady.

Jason was moving right next to him. When he sat down, he put some tea in front of him and said "drink up baby bird". Tim hummed quietly and took the tea. Coffee was something he had been drinking less for a while. Jason had slowly convinced him to do it. He knew that Jason was doing it because he was worried about his health. His life had gotten a lot better in the 1 year he had been in his care. Even though he had probably spent the first 3 months in a coma, that was enough. He trusted Jay and his friends with his life and he would always trust them. He knew that Jason was only worried about him. So he didn't go against his rules anymore.

Jason said "Hey are you okay Red" Tim nodded silently and drank the tea. He hummed quietly at the taste of the tea. Jason smiled at her action. He put some pancakes in front of him, cut into bites. Tim looked at it but remained silent, avoiding his gaze.

Jason sat down next to him "Eat it all, okay little bird? Don't forget to say if you want more" he said. Tim nodded silently, put the cup on the table and started eating.

Jason was watching him while he was eating from his own plate "So are you going to accompany me today Red Bird?" Tim suddenly looked up at him in surprise.

Jason said "You made my job a lot easier yesterday by being on the radio" Tim smiled widely then nodded. Jason smiled at that and ruffled his hair.

Tim said "Thanks Jay. For everything" in a low voice.

Jason "Of course little red you are my baby red. You are all baby red of course we will take care of you. Do you remember the promise I made to you?" he asked.

Tim said "Whether I like it or not you will take care of me as long as you are alive" in a low voice.

Jason said "Absolutely. Little bird is under my protection".

Tim blushed. Jason patted his head "Are you in pain baby bird?" he said.

Tim said "A little" quietly.

Jason said “Okay then take your medicine after you have breakfast” Tim nodded silently. The two of them had breakfast silently.

The two of them were eating when the phone suddenly rang. Jason’s eyebrows were furrowed. He picked it up and looked at it, he cursed a few times with the name he saw. He picked it up and opened it “What do you want B?” he said.

Tim quickly raised his head and looked there nervously. Jason listened to the phone for a while then said “What’s it to you whether I’m with you or not?”

Tim was looking at him nervously. Jason said “It’s not up to me whether he talks to you and I’m not going to force him for your nonsense” he said angrily.

He listened to the phone. He turned to Tim “He wants to talk to you” he said without speaking, moving his mouth. Tim looked at him hesitantly. Then he nodded.

Jason put his phone on speaker “I put it on speaker” he said.

Bruce said “Hey Timmy”.

Tim said “Sir Bruce”.

Bruce said “Hey how are you” the tension in his voice could be heard.

Tim said “I’m fine you” quietly. Bruce said, “I’m fine, thanks, it’s good to hear your voice. I haven’t heard it in a while. It’s a relief to hear it again.”

Tim remained silent. Bruce asked, “Well, I wanted to invite you two to dinner today. Of course, if that’s okay with you. What do you think?”

Tim and Jason looked at each other for a moment. Jason said, “We’ll think about it. But we don’t think so.”

Bruce sighed, but said, “Okay, that’s a better answer than no for me. Please at least think about it and let me know at least by 6.”

Jason said, “Okay,” then he ended the call. He turned to Tim. Tim was silent, munching on his pancake in a dull manner. Jason said, “We don’t have to go, baby bird. It’s okay.”

Tim said, “I know, I know.” Jason patted his head. He stroked his hair with his fingers, trying to comfort him. He finally relaxed a little. They continued eating breakfast. Jason always showed him tactile affection, comforting him in this way. He had realized Tim’s hunger for touch shortly after he settled down next to him. That's why he would always approach her tactfully, take care of him and comfort him in this way.

When the meal was over, they cleaned up the kitchen together. Tim had lost most of his body's mobility except for his right arm and shoulder, but Jason knew that he felt useless and that it made him feel depressed. So he always tried to make sure that he didn't feel useless.

When they finished cleaning up the kitchen together, they went to the living room and sat on the couch. Tim was sitting next to Jason on the couch while he did his homework quietly. His back was against his back. Jason was reading a book out loud while he did his homework. They were both relaxed. Nora was lying between their backs.