#syscourse tag

[smilepilled]

i am not ever going to label myself as "anti endo" or "pro endo" or "neu endo" because none of these are true. i genuinely believe this entire topic is just online crusading/witchhunts with hefty misinformation from too many people in the polar opposite sides. i can have nuance. you can have nuance. we all can have nuance. but that's not gonna happen when we're all focused on sending death threats and making callout posts/blocklists. 👍

as a osdd having person, please just sit the fuck down and listen a little. lets do this without lynching people.

[plural-positive]

a system is mid-switch. their friend asks if they're okay, to which they reply, "give me just a moment and i'll be Frank with you."

[floral-atom-collective]

Pro-endo includes willogenic/created systems

It always has and always will

[frameacloud]

Some fact checks about plurality

The "Bible of psychiatry" is the DSM. In 1994, the DSM changed the name of Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD) to Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID). This was in response to a moral panic where critics claimed that the condition was fake.

The original and current diagnostic criteria do not require trauma for DID (or MPD) (DSM-III, p. 259; DSM-III-R, p. 272; DSM-5-TR, p. 331).

The international counterpart of the DSM is the ICD-11. Its essential features for DID do not require trauma, either.

Both books say that not all cases of multiple personalities are a disorder or a severe impairment. Psychiatry recognizes that medicalizing them is not always appropriate.

Plurality (or multiplicity) is a community umbrella term for many ways of being more than one person in a body. Psychiatrists who know enough about DID are aware of it. Plurality includes but is not the same as DID.

The community has always included plurals who formed for reasons other than trauma. Dividing the community by excluding non-traumagenic plurals and calling them fake is new. That only started in August 2014 on Tumblr, unheard of elsewhere.

When that started, a trauma-caused DID system created the word "endogenic." This means plurals who formed naturally rather than from trauma. The Lunastus Collective coined it in solidarity with them.

(Similarly, the coiner of another umbrella term, "alterhuman," is a member of a traumagenic OSDD system who supports endogenic plurals. The purpose of that word is for plural systems to unite with other sorts who differ from usual definitions of human individual, valuing what we do and do not have in common, instead of in-fighting about who is more legitimate.)

Community historian LB Lee gives several good reasons why-- as trauma-surviving plurals-- they choose not to call themselves "traumagenic" or divide the community by origins. If I may briefly paraphrase a couple of these: If you see suffering as your whole foundation of who you are, then you have a more difficult time envisioning a better situation. If you want others to respect you, a losing strategy is to put down people who are seen as similar to you.

Neither psychiatry nor the greater community of plurals see trauma history as an important distinction in determining whether someone is plural.

[smilepilled]

erm so are you pro endo. asking because we’re endo - @jnertia

my stance regarding syscourse is hard to name, i dont like putting myself in "pro endo" or "neu endo" or "anti endo" at all. i think the medical sector sucks, and also that people shouldnt do cultural appropriation { regarding tulpamancy for a very considerably huge part }, but i do agree with the psych abolitionist ideals, because plurality is under-researched + the little info that we have is hung above our heads as a way of controlling our ways of being and seeing ourselves.

i think i've come to not care about someone's plural origins, because it simply doesnt concern to me and < dealing with my plurality is something more important to me > than arguing pointlessly against people's existences. i don't care if you're an endo for the most part, because as a intersex person, i can completely understand the urge to stay away from the medical sector-- it is abusive, it is a tool for oppression for so many different marginalized groups, yet people suddenly forget this.

i don't like discourse. and i won't even say "if you are doing anything dangerous, please keep one arm distance from me", unless you're actively harming others — if youre harming yourself, all i can offer is a helping hand and advice, or a place to vent. i will not harrass, target, or otherwise mistreat anyone, but there are certain things that do feel too risky in current times for me — namely: syshopping/systravel to other systems, giving/selling/gifting alters, willingly creating alters, etc., but this isn't reason for me to harrass or target people online.

its just not worth my time and energy.

especially considering so many endos are traumagenic or otherwise deal with mentall illness. i think preserving people's wellbeings is more important than being scientifically or discourse-ly right. i care about people more than the discussion of their communities or labels, even if i have personal limits with communities and labels that actively propagate abuse.

i just dont care. if you have love in your heart, if youre trying to break free from being held down by any system, then i see you and i love you. and i owe you my care, my welcomeness.

[bookshelfed-journeys-sys]

"Endos wouldn't be fakeclaimed if they were real!!"

So... What about other people with other types of mental disorders? Many other non-endo systems get fakeclaimed anyways, are they suddenly not real either??

What about people with tics, or with schizophrenia, or any other kind of other disorder that gets fakeclaimed a lot? Are they just suddenly not real either???

This logic is basically a logic I've seen so much around in anti-endo spaces lately, it is sickening, they are not even hidding the fact they support or are fakeclaimers anymore, they just are proudly admitting to be.

What is with anti-endos these days not even caring about being called ableist anymore and instead just using that label like a badge with PRIDE, and encouraging eachother to send death threats and sexually harass (pro)endos?! Everyday they are just showing they just don't care about traumatized people or even systems in general as they claim they do!

"We are not a hate group! We are just chilling here!!" Yet you proudly admit the next day ur part of a hate group and harass people and call people delusional AS AN INSULT WHICH IS INHERENTLY ABLEIST

[sophieinwonderland]

Hello fellow Tumblrites!

Yay! Glad to hear it!

So here is the deal... Apple CEO Tim Cook donated a million dollars to Trump's inaugural committee. He foolishly thought that bending the knee in advance would get him favor with the new regime.

The problem with fascists is that once you surrender, they always want more.

Trump earlier on truth social threatened to put a 25% tariff on Apple.

The above real post on Truth Social was followed by a sharp drop in Apple stock.

The real Tim Cook, like so many other corporate leaders, is afraid to stand up to fascism. They are afraid to explain the realities of manufacturing in America and why even with tariffs, it's still cheaper to produce in other countries.

If we cannot look to corporate for resistance, we can at least manufacture it ourselves.

What I am asking is that you help me spread around this tweet.

This is not real. This is a product of paint.net because we're too cheap to pay for Photoshop.

What we need you to do...

Reblog this to help it spread around Tumblr and get more people involved in our psyop.

Copy the image of the fake tweet from Tim Cook and share it on at least one other social media website you use. It can be Twitter or Facebook or Truth Social if you are on Truth Social for some reason. You can post it on a subreddit that you don't mind getting banned from for spreading misinformation. Add your own reaction to the post about what you think of what "Tim Cook" said.

Try to aim for posting this on websites where you will find conservatives who might pick it up.

Be prepared to defend the validity of the tweet if challenged. If somebody mentions that they looked at Twitter and didn't find it there, you can claim that it was deleted.

If somebody makes too good of an argument against the tweet's existence, such as finding this post that spells out the strategy, just ignore them and don't give them any further attention. Block if necessary to hide their corrections or make sure you get the last word.

Whatever you do, absolutely never break character and reveal that you know it's fake in front of Trump supporters on other websites. You can tell your friends though if you want to get them involved.

If you come across someone else on another site spreading this tweet, be sure to like and share it to boost them.

What is this really going to accomplish?

The most ambitious goal would be to have this take off and spread everywhere, even getting picked up by lazy right-wing media who will help goad The Trump Regime into threatening even higher tariffs on Apple, further driving a wedge between them and making the real Tim Cook regret his donation.

That is a pretty lofty goal and it would take a lot of effort and luck to get it that far.

Even if it doesn't get there, every single Trump supporter who believes this misinformation is another Trump supporter who will be less likely to buy an Apple product.

We can still hurt their bottom line. We can still punish them, at least a little, for bending the knee and trying to pay off a wannabe dictator.

And it can be a little fun too! 😁

So, who's in?

[house-of-clouds]

on tonight accidental glance into syscourse i continue to hate the idea that "endo systems actually have horrible trauma but its been hidden by dissociative barriers!!!"

i will forever HATE this idea. god forbid a system just exist peacefully. not every system has to be in a cycle of misery and hatred. trust and believe that shit isn't fun anyway

i get happy when i see other systems just enjoying the company of their headmates. having silly moments and playing games with them. doing mundane stuff with their headmates. that makes me happy to see other people get to have that

forcing the idea that endogenic systems are actually traumatised is incredibly harmful, because it can lead to doubt. it can cause the uncovering of trauma that maybe shouldn't have been found in the first place, or wasn't ready to be found (IF it's there). it can cause false memories. it can change so much about a system and their perception of their life, and i think that's so unnecessary

[smilepilled]

anon you're really, really funny.

a hefty amount of endos >> are << traumagenic plurals who are either: (1) securing themselves from remembering loads of trauma they can't deal with (which is okay and dealing with having trauma shouldn't be forced); ORRR (2) psych/medical abolitionists (many diff situations but mainly. they dont wanna force themselves to solely focus on medical records and the like. similarly to intersex people being med abolitionists, for example, but naturally there's many many differences!!!)

i can understand disliking things like appropriated tulpamancy, or potentially extremely dangerous practices like giving/selling/creating/gifting alters, syshopping/intrasys travel, or the like— but also, i can't understand people who cling to a field that hangs (either the lack of or just the) information above your head as well as oppress multiple minorities systematically. a lot of people don't even have access to a psychiatrist or a professional, by many different reasons, so it comes off oddly when people are so strongly "go see a doctor!" about this... classism? hello? have you forgotten people can be poor? or live in families where its heavily stigmatized?

overall just made me giggle. as a traumagenic multiple i don't care what people have going on with how they label their experiences or whats up, unless its actively dangerous or harmful to people. otherwise? do ya thing

its gross to see so many truamagen systems say they're pro/endo neutral when it's like, they invaded our spaces and now we're buddy buddy all of a sudden??? (ive seen this so much on editblr recently it gen makes me sick)

.

[archivekin]

We need to kill the idea that you can’t both be a “real” alterhuman and have fun. You don’t have to take yourself super seriously 100% of the time to be who you say you are. Experiencing joy and laughter and whimsy is a good thing, and it’s actually far healthier to seek those over community validation through performing the ���correct” amount of stoicism and misery.

[possessed-pack]

Okay but will there actually come a day where anti-endos stop being ableist while also accusing others of being ableist? You can't preach that you're "protecting victims" while also sitting there being all "endos/those who support them are delusional!!". Psychosis is not your tool for hate, and psychotic people are no lesser than anyone else and do not deserve to be used to discredit other peoples experiences that you simply don't understand. Traumagenic DID systems who support endos exist, but you hate those too--what happened to protecting "actual trauma survivors"? You are not protecting disabled people, you are using them as a tool to explain your hatred for things you don't care to understand.

[ghost-jester-sys]

"The future is plural" movement from endos is CONCERNING

regardless of the fact they do not believe you require trauma to be a system (medically impossible) this proves they want to groom kids into identifying as endo and spread their medical misinformation further.

as well as causing real systems to believe they dont have it bad enough to be "traumagenic" (the only "genic you can be. this language is bullshit im just using these terms to explain their shit), preventing them from getting real help. they are WIDELY anti-recovery.

their misinformation has ALREADY endangered real systems medically as they have made professionals skeptical of a medically proven disorder, a disorder that is already very stigmatised.

outside of just endogenic misinformation, this statement leads to the idea that they want to traumatise kids to make more systems.

ENDOS ARE FUCKING DANGEROUS

[smilepilled]

Why should there be ablocklist for pro endo ppl . . .

Why is people being pro endo / putting anti endo on their DNI that bad that it needs a blocklist . . .

And why are you on a blocklist , youre the chillest ever . . .

( obviously not directed at you )

I kinda want to go crazy and reblog 1000 endo positivity posts just to be added on there /j

- @floraeth

IDK its just... petty discourse... online problems... literally not a problem (unless its like transtrauma or cultural aprop etc). people care too much about all the wrong things, editblr should care more about the rising amount of people spouting TERF shit lately

[meepmrop]

Hi guys!! Just a little PSA I feel the need to say, especially given how many people I see self diagnose with autism or ADHD (this post may be continuously updated, so please see the original post if you're seeing a reblog of this)

Please do your research. I'm serious. The media has downplayed both of these disorders to simply autism being passionate about something and ADHD as having a low attention span or being insanely hyper

These are just common traits. You can have traits of a disorder without actually having it. I repeat, you can have traits of something without actually having it.

All forms of neurodivergency (yes, autism/adhd aren't the only ones. Get it through your damn head.) are disabilities. It needs to disable you from being a fully functional human being. I understand there's people with low support needs, but this is directed towards the people who claim to have medium/high support needs.

A special interest isn't just something you're super passionate about, it's a coping mechanism that can take over your life. I hate to admit that I have spent hundreds of dollars on useless things that have made me think of any of my special interests.

Hyperfixations are the same where they take over your entire thought process. For many, their hyperfixes come to mind even in situations it shouldn't. Some people have said that it happens during tests, essays, funerals even. I've had trouble sleeping often because of my own hyperfixations.

If you're 16 or older, I highly recommend that you take the RAADS-R test since it's widely accepted by many psychologists world wide. If you're under 16, I recommend you still take it and then take it again when you're 16 to see if you get the same score. I also highly recommend talking to people who are diagnosed and listing to them your symptoms. I have 3 friends who have been diagnosed tell me that I cover more than enough symptoms to qualify for a diagnosis.

Addition to this (because i got a bit of feedback): No online test will be completely reliable. I highly recommend keeping all of your symptoms somewhere to show a psychiatrist. The main reason I recommend the RAADS-R test is because you can download a PDF that shows not only your score but also your answer to all 80 questions. Psychiatrists are a lot more likely to believe you if you can give a list of your symptoms and how long they've been occurring. I keep a notebook for every time I show an autistic trait (since I struggle most with social situations as an autist, many of mine are moments where I can't tell apart the tone in what people say and I take things way too literally...)

Also, if you mask or used to mask, jotting down your experience with masking is important. Keeping a journal of how things affected you when masking, writing down how things affected you when you started to unmask. I started to mask (quite horribly...) when I was 13 and had a bunch of social norms shoved on me. Due to heavy burnout, I'm 17 now and don't mask anymore because I can't take it any longer. Since unmasking, I've noticed how much my autistic traits have hightened. It's like I've been bottling everything up for so long, and the river doesn't stop flowing.

Also, another thing to add on top of all of that, OCD isn't the same as being super neat either. Compulsive disorders like OCD are consuming. As someone with a compulsive disorder, in my experience, basically the thought does not leave your mind until you act out the thought. It's like having a huge pile of intrusive thoughts that only get bigger the longer you hold them back. It causes immense distress that will constantly bother you until something is done about it.

I also feel the need to point out some ableist language that has somehow become normalized.

1) using "narcissist" to describe someone who's egotistical and selfish. Also, the term "narc abuse" to describe a person with NPD traits who are abusive. Go talk to people with NPD. Go to blogs that educate on NPD. Seriously. You will find that NPD isn't just appearing selfish and egotistical. Sometimes it's the complete opposite.

My partner has NPD, and they actually get their validation often from being nice. (this post they reblogged can help clarify a bit more)

NPD (or any disorder for that matter), aren't inheritly abusive. I had to snap at one of my friends for calling her brother a narcissist when he's just a little asshole.

2) the terms "sociopath" and "psychopath". These terms have typically been used against people with ASPD/ASPD traits. My partner also has ASPD and reclaimed the term "sociopath".

3) "yandere". There are many mixed feelings about this term in the BPD community, ranging from people saying they have no issue with it, some considering it a slur (key word: consider. It's not an actual slur, but some people consider it one. I've had some asshole harass me for saying this, and I don't want any more drama about it.) because it romanticizes the trait in BPD and OLD (Obsessive Love Disorder) of having unhealthy relationships, some saying the term gives them comfort because it describes their symptoms as someone with BPD (which would be like reclaiming the term).

I personally fall under the group of people who consider it a slur, and I will be blocking people who use the term who aren't reclaiming it for their personal selves. I am heavily uncomfortable with the term and ask that anyone who uses the term on any character or person (unless it's someone with bpd headcannoning a character with bpd) a big fat serious DNI.

4) "psychotic", "delusional"/"delulu", and "schizo". I hate that I feel the need to say this, but schizophrenia and psychosis are serious mental disorders. Can we stop using fucking mental disorders as insults or as some quirky label. I experience psychosis, and it has ruined my life. As a hellenic polytheist, I often struggle to tell the difference between psychosis or one of my deities talking to me. As a DID system, I sometimes struggle to tell the difference between psychosis and an alter talking to me. As an enjoyer of EPIC: The Musical, psychosis makes it hard to tell if we have a new fictive, if it's psychosis, or a deity.

I'm going to add the stuff said in this reblog since I find it really important:

Stop with lobotomy jokes people. It's a tragic case of medical abuse, and was used many many times on vulnerable people (they'd lobotomize psychotic/schizophrenic people to make them more docile and easier to handle. It's horrific. If they didn't like what a woman was doing, they'd label her psychotic and do it to her too.) The jokes I see are all so tasteless and almost feel mocking to me about it. You didn't go through lobotomies, why are you making it so quirky and downplaying how horrible it is? Schizophrenic and psychotic people (among others but I'm focusing on the group I'm apart of) are still not being taken seriously and left in the dust even after disability activism is on the rise. I don't understand why people will be so understanding with some but then just completely turn off that empathy whenever someone has psychosis. Stop joking about lobotomies, they're not even funny and your sanism is showing.

Taking a bit of another system's post (link) for this lengthy ass post (but I still find it really important to add)

plus, it seems to be entirely ignoring the fact that you can have a symptom of a disorder without having the disorder / being disordered... lets use ADHD as an example here since its the first thing to come to mind LOL, someone can have a short attention span or be distracted easily without inherently having ADHD. it would depend on the presence of other symptoms as well as degree of life impairment. this logic also applies to any other disorder ever... so why dont we apply the same logic to DID / OSDD-1?

I completely agree with this, and it's a big reason why I support endogenic systems (like in the linked post, I'm using endogenic as an umbrella term). The brain is complex. It's as simple as that. So what if a system or alter formed from some other silly way? Who are you to dictate how somebody's brain works? Even before we found out our system was more than just traumagenic, we still got fakeclaimed over the dumbest shit ever and well... for a 13 year old body and newly discovered system, that fakeclaiming was actually really harmful and worsened our trauma. Because of that, we'll always support all systems under the endogenic umbrella or any system that's been deemed "different than others". We don't need to understand how your system works to know that fakeclaiming is harmful and wouldn't wish it on anybody else.

If anyone would like to pitch in, I highly encourage it. I would also appreciate it if anyone could give us some blogs to tag that help educate people on disorders that are downplayed or aren't talked about enough. Some YouTube channels that are informative will be appreciated, too!!

I'm gonna tag my partner's blog ( @zerasocial )if anyone wants to ask them about their experience with ASPD or NPD.

I'd prefer no discourse in any of the notes of this post. If you feel the need to correct me on anything, you're free to DM me and I'll fix anything if needed.

[littlest-bugz]

The Collective You

[one system's brief advice about accepting the idea of the collective you]

One of the best pieces of system advice started from a tumblr post and was elaborated by my DID specialist. I can't find the original tumblr post that started it, so I'm making a little post of my own <3 Share the knowledge. and also hope that someone can link the original post lol.

When I was REALLY going through it™ with my first diagnosis w/ DID, and a lack of integration, all of my alters felt like separate individuals, some of us feeling as distanced as a coworker or a stranger altogether. We were just getting a grasp on internal communication between all of our subsystems, and it was rough. We felt so entirely differentiated that we were our own people trapped in one body. While I don't really care about what language you use, all alters in CDDs are a part of one person [there's only one body and brain]- the collective you.

So obvs, I'm scrolling tumblr like the chronically online doomscroller that I am, and I see this post that goes along the line of not knowing who you are, but knowing you are 'you', regardless of who you are [referring to alters]. And it said something like "we're all me enough to pick up our meds"- something like that. iirc it was a half light hearted, half advice post, but that was really good advice for me. I kind of internalized it after I processed it in therapy. It's actually why I have started to love parts language lately tbh.

After further processing this idea in therapy, Identity Confusion stopped mattering in the grand scheme of things. I focused less on worrying about who I was, and just focused on the fact that I'm me. Just like the post I saw- We are all me. The example of all being me enough to pick up my medications just applied, like, everywhere. Even when it came down to the smallest things- with coping with other symptoms too.

Oh? I don't like coffee right now? I guess I should switch to something else. [differentiated alters]

Oh? I have barely any drawing skills right now? Okay, really sucks but I can work on something else and come back to it later. [skill variance between alters]

Oh? I have to go to a doctor's appointment? I know I'll forget that- Gotta write a list, and put it up on the board so I remember. [day to day amnesia]

You know what happened? My dissociation got better! Not immediately or entirely, obviously, and my memory [re amnesia] still sucks, but that's part of the disorder- plus other disorders that I have. This idea of the collective you is something that I think is really beneficial to all CDD systems, especially during the mid to later stages of recovery.

I, admittedly, credit most of my healing to conversations I have had with my DID specialist. Especially since, without her, I wouldn't have been able to process this idea of the collective me further, but the conversation wouldn't have been started if I hadn't seen that post on tumblr. This was a budding concept with us due to the separation we had. It helped with integration. GRANTED... Not every alter got the memo, obviously, but It's something that I'm still working on. Of course, being me comes with the prerequisite that I am a person with DID, and that I am made up of multiple parts.

Now for the piece of advice I got from my therapist- Though it requires a certain level of knowledge of your own system, such as a list of alters and some identifying info [fav drinks, fav colors, those type of things]. Look at the list of your alters wherever it may be. Just whatever you use for logging your system members. Look for the commonalities between alters. There will be at least some commonalities.

For example; A good 45% of us like bunnies, 45% like cats, and 10% have a liking for other kinds of animals. Using this information, I can pretty much deduce that 1. the collective me loves animals and 2. the collective me likes cats and bunnies especially.

Another example; I looked through our simplyplural, which has a favorite color thing [in ours at least]. By looking through the list, I figured out 1. wow I like literally all colors- my fav color is rainbows and 2. I especially like pink and light blue.

More examples; the list.. THE LIST... I looked through it and saw that a good 90% of us like MONSTER ENERGY DRINKS- of varying flavors, but the common denominator was Ultra Strawberry Dreams, but all of us like [or tolerate] water as a preferred drink. From there I can come to the conclusion that I prefer water over anything else and that I have a problem with monster [being light hearted but I genuinely do].

I hope you get the idea I'm going for. I used this process for nearly every aspect of our collective identity, though some had to genuinely be voted on, such as our LGBTQIA+ labels [offline, we just call ourself queer, but that's.. aside the point LMAO].

Obviously, there are going to be outliers- Having DID comes with the fun [/s] aspect of alters being differentiated from each other in some capacity. Example for the monster energy one- We have a handful of alters that HATE energy drinks- even just fizzy drinks in general. There's one guy who will only drink Black Coffee and water- nothing else. He's the guy who is always hiding away our monsters in the way back of the fridge, but guess what!! He's me!! The part of me that doesn't want me to ruin my health over energy drinks. The part of me that knows I deserve better than my unhealthy habits.

Getting to know the collective you is just like learning about your system! It is not inherently different than figuring out what an alters dislikes or likes are. The idea of The Collective You shouldn't feel scary or anxiety inducing- if it is, you may want to confront those feelings with a therapist if you have access to one. Every CDD system is the collective [or, well, system] of one fragmented individual- That is a studied and objective fact. I wanted to give advice from one recovering system to another.

No, this will not work for everyone, every system is different, but I'm hoping this post finds the right audience in knowing that it's worth a shot to try this!

[13conk9s]

idgaf what origin label people use but if youre endo or traumaendo ONLY BECAUSE you dont feel like your trauma was enough that is the devil talking. if youre mixed origin ONLY BECAUSE your trauma “wasnt that bad”, or wasnt caused by your immediate family, that is the devil talking, you are traumagenic. for the love of god “bulligenic” and other types are SUBTYPES of traumagenic. THEY ARE TRAUMAGENIC. im so tired