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barsandkaines · 3 years ago

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1) Marley’s propaganda is literally a conspiracy because it is objectively false. Their propaganda isn’t just “they did bad things”, it’s “Eldia constantly subjected us to ethnic cleansing and got their powers from the devil”, both are untrue, especially the former because if that were true, there wouldn’t be “Marleyans” or anyone who isn’t an Eldian.

The propaganda is constantly criticized and stated to be nonsense and you are taking the word of characters who are quite literally depicted as Nazis.

So obsessed with “but the Jews didn’t do anything to deserve it!” to notice that the story is also saying “they didn’t do anything to deserve it.”

For the record, at its worst, Attack on Titan proposes that even if the Eldian Empire did bad shit literally thousands of years ago, it does not in any sesne justify what is happening to them, while you seem to personally think that the only reason the Holocaust is bad isn’t because people were being killed and enslaved, but because the Nazis didn’t give a good enough reason...?

2) The Eldians can only turn into titans through specific, external circumstances which MARLEY THEMSELVES abuse to make them into tools of war, they especially have no fucking right to oppress them. If the world hates Eldia, it’s BECAUSE Marley uses them as tools of war.

Their ability was not “sought”, it was a complete coincidence of a girl who literally fell into godlike power.

3) "We know these historical crimes are not completely propaganda because we see Ymir herself executing them.” Okay, so you didn’t pay attention to the story at all then. Did you miss the part where she was a slave to the king? The whole point of Ymir Fritz’ story is the tragedy of a young girl forced to do awful shit by a tyrant of a master and the only conclusion you come to is “hurr, Ymir did bad things so the Eldians deserved it.” Completely missing the parallels between Ymir’s situation and the Eldians’ current situation of being used as tool of war and being blamed for it, all because dumbasses in real life apparently think the Jews were actual monsters?

4) “Concentration camps don’t make fascism.” What the fuck are you talking about.

5) “Also, unless you count Paradis, there are no concentration camps in AOT. There are ghettos.” How the fuck is Paradis a concentration camp but not the literal camps made by the literal Nazis. I mean, SURE, the Eldians are stuck in entrapped ghettos, wearing armbands to denote their inferiority, made to eat scraps, are killed for any violation, and have their condition justified by nonsense... but they’re not GASSED (OH WAIT YES THEY WERE, that’s how they transform them into titans) so it’s not a concentration camp!

Paradis has infinitely better conditions and is only under threat by Marley sending titans, but that’s somehow a concentration camp. Okay.

How is your obsession with trying to paint the story as fascist make you miss the times it’s literally depicting fascism? Do you think you’re finding some “undertones?” Attack on Titan has only one tone, and it’s 24-pt bold Comic Sans.

And yeah, Marley is fascist, it runs by every single point of fascism you listed, including the fact that they made up a hero who killed the devil.

6) “The first one is with Hizuru. From the beginning it’s made explicit that Hizuru’s main interest lies in monopolizing the island in and so far, they refuse to connect Paradis with any other nation.” Hard to do that when Paradis has literally walled itself away. They didn’t contact the island during the 100 years, probably because THEY COULDN’T. Hizuru itself is too poor to stand on its own, which is why they ally with Paradis.

7) “No more attempts for peace are made.” That’s because immediately afterward, Eren, without the permission from the Survey Corps, literally belly-flops on the world’s militaries. Hard to make peace talks from there.

You understand that Paradis has been literally locked away for centuries, yes? That they were completely unaware other people existed, yes? That their government and military are based around titans, yes? The same titans that the rest of the world are wary of, yes? But you think that because the story depicts diplomacy as rightfully very hard, it’s somehow saying it doesn’t work? Because you think Isayama should have contrived something that ends all conflict, everything’s wrapped up hunky-dory with no violence whatsoever?

Oh no, it depicts diplomacy as REALLY HARD WHEN WAR IS HAPPENING. Since I’m a tool who thinks that we could have just talked to Hitler, this clearly means the story thinks diplomacy is bad.

8) “Granted, there are only five years between the Battle of Shinganshina and the Rumbling” Oh, you just fucking realized that there has only been slightly more time than a fucking US Presidental Election, have you? But you think that’s enough to singlehandedly end a stalled but full-of-tension conflict?

9) “The way in which these diplomatic attempts are framed frankly make any peaceful resolution seem completely hopeless.” Sure, if you think that diplomacy is easy in five years.

10) “Thus, the Survey Corps are forced to attack Liberio.” Eren’s attack was explicitly not part of their plans. He spent a long time posing as a Marleyan Eldian, going no contact with his friends at all. They did not know what he was doing.

11) “Willy Tibur does his declaration of war before Eren even shows his Titan’s face.” You talk about Tybur but the fact that such a declaration was meant to serve to 1) take heat off Marley for their atrocities by blaming Paradis and 2) justify all-out invasion in front of the world for the Founding Titan and Paradis’ resources? You don’t think that’s important to the conflict’s backdrop? Well, you seem to think the actual context of the story is irrelevant, as we see.

12) “That’s how “The cult of action for action’s sake” is displayed in the AOT.” You do know that Eren’s actions directly resulted in a fascist cult, right? Do you actually think it’s positing Eren as correct?

13) “It’s not possible to reduce the political and moral context that the manga paints by saying that the only thing at fault is Eren’s white and black morality.” No, but the fact that he is directly responsible for the conditions that he claims justifies his own actions certainly helps. Again, are you actually reading the story.

14) “But if Eren is nothing but an evil guy that good people stop, why isn’t any other viable option employed as a contrast?” There is???? That’s the point of Armin / Kiyomi’s 50-year plan????? To use a limited Rumbling to destroy the world’s militaries and allow Paradis to stand on their own as a nation? Yes, it’s also framed as Armin desperately trying to think of Eren as an ally, but the only reason that plan doesn’t happen is because the guy who can make it happen chooses not to do it.

15) “Why does the discursive fabric of the manga spend so much time justifying this, instead of making it clear to the reader that the diplomatic route or any other solution were feasible?” The obvious reason, since you forget it’s a STORY, is that conflict (especially in a story ABOUT conflict) is infinitely more interesting than no conflict.

Paradis finds a peaceful solution. No conflict is made ever. It’s over! No fighting. All that plot, intrigue, themes, character, just ends! That’s apparently how the story should have been, because writing about bad things means you think it’s good, apparently.

And how can you claim to know what Eren is like and think that the story is justifying his actions?

16) “The narrative gives a logical justification to the genocide” It’s only logical if you think genocide could ever be justified, which even the story disagrees since Hange literally screams GENOCIDE IS BAD.

17) “The 50-year plan and the posterior mini-rumbling only work if the titans are still feared as a mass destruction weapon.” The fucking point of the plan is to let Paradis develop so that they DON’T NEED THE TITANS. The titans are ALREADY being phased out as a threat, Marley nearly lot the Mid-East War. They know that the titans will be obselete, and they don’t want to use the Colossals as nukes.

The plan is never stated as ineffective. It just never happens because Eren wants to kill the world.

18) “As such, Eren’s destruction of almost the entirety of the planet is portrayed as a heroic sacrifice.” No it’s fucking not, especially that if Eren did complete the full Rumbling, he wouldn’t die. The only thing sacrificed is the world, which is under no circumstances heroic.

19) “If Eren is nothing but a cold-blooded killer that committed genocide because he wanted to, why does this panel exist?” How dare you fucking post the Ramzi scene with this idiotic take? The chapter that confirms the sheer selfishness of Eren’s motivations and goals straight from the horses’ mouth?

The point of that fucking chapter isn’t to “”“““justify”“““““ anything. It is explicitly about how Eren doesn’t want to do the Rumbling to save the island, it’s “more than that.” He wants to do it because he wants the empty world he’s always dreamed of. Did you think he was “disappointed” because of fucking racism? You claim you understand but you don’t.

He says sorry because he’s a half-hearted piece-of-shit because despite the fact that he KNOWS that kid will die in the Rumbling, he decides to save him from dying to those thugs, as if he has some fucking moral. He is going to do much worse to Ramzi. That’s why he’s breaking down. That’s when he realizes that he is a hypocritical piece-of-shit with no actual good intentions. He admits this to a kid who can’t even understand him while sandbagging Mikasa AGAIN.

The “half-hearted piece-of-shit” thing runs back with Reiner, who despite learning that Paradis isn’t full of devils, decides to still carry on his mission, not because he has to or for his country, but because he wants to be seen as a hero. A selfish motivation covered up by a selfless story to jusify doing awful things. This is the crux of their conversation in Liberio: they’re the same because they’re half-hearted pieces-of-shit.

Every point you made has gone down the shitter as you’ve demonstrated your complete lack of understanding of the story. The story’s stance on genocide becomes a lot clearer when you understand how it characterizes the guy doing the genocide.

So obsessed with this dumbass take that you miss the most obvious way that the story is against Eren’s actions. Why? Because he fucked cried? A key part of Eren’s character development is him finally understanding how FUCKED UP he is, how what he’s doing is FUCKED... but doing it anyway because what he wants is more important to him than the world.

It is THE FUCKING SCENE that encapsulates Eren as a monster. And you use it to “prove” he’s good, actually?

20) “His efforts are actually thanked for, at the end of the manga” No they fucking do not. And Isayama actually stated in an interview what his intention with Armin was in this scene.

The others didn’t thank him either. None of them say anything close to thank you or praise. How the fuck did you think PIECK did??? SHE DIDN’T EVEN GET A CONVERSATION WITH HIM! She makes a snarky remark about how she would like to talk to him.

21) “There isn’t a single interpretation that can turn this around.” Immediately afterward, “I promise I won’t let this error go to waste.” But reading is not really your forte, I think.

22) “He’s “the hero” of the story.” The story made no delusions that Armin is not also a hypocrite who has done awful things lmao. Even he admits that. His moral compass isn’t absolute.

23) “And yet, he views Eren annihilation of 80% of the population and destruction of all of Earths ecosystems as a selfless act” No he does not, unless you think that killing millions of people for the few people he cares about (which is the nicest possible interpretation of his actions) is “selfless.” He never told his friends until it was already over. He never let them in, he never asked their opinion, he forced them as much as he forced the world. Didn’t even know if they’d live through it all (and Sasha and Hange didn’t). And you think it’s supposed to be “selfless” because Armin says “thank you for leaving this on our plate, you fucking nutter?”

24) “Armin, Jean, Connie and company are sobbing themselves dry because the enactor of a global genocide didn’t get to live a long, peaceful life” They cried because they had to kill their friend, which they REALLY didn’t want to do but their friend was clearly fucking crazy and genocided the world, so. Connie never even said a thing about Eren, he talked about his mother, which he cared about even more than the island.

And of course, none of this shit mentions how Armin spearheads the movement to try to talk the now-fascist Paradis Island into peace, despite whining about how the story “doesn’t think diplomacy is an option.” Paradis would hate them even more than the world hates Eldians since they killed their cult leader and prevented genocide by themselves, yet the story posits Armin’s diplomacy as very hopeful.

25) “Either the “cycle of hatred” is an unescapable force that does not heed to diplomacy or human understanding.” Which is literally what the story says, that it’s almost impossible for peace to last forever.

Why would no titans mean that no one would ever go to war ever? Conflict is infinitely more complex than “exactly one thing happened and no one will get over it.”

Literally any other fucking conflict could have happened. Everyone involved in the original case is long dead. Titans no longer exist. But you think the world sat on its hands for one last bombing spree?

Remember when we bombed Germany last month over the Holocaust? Because that’s how war happens LMAO

26) “Either the world still hates Paradis and Eren should have gone for a 100% Rumbling.” I like this take because it’s from people who seem to be okay with genocide to begin with. Let’s think, for once. If the world hated Eldians for the GENOCIDE THEY COMMITTED... maybe they shouldn’t have done it...?

I do like how you assauage your nonsense with the conclusion. “The manga makes important points on the misuse of information” while you claim that because the fucking Nazis said that Eldians did bad things, the story must be saying they deserve it LOL.

The story shits on people who use propaganda period, but you use the story having characters use propaganda as proof that the story believes in actual propaganda??????

With the Attack on Titan Rumbling arc starting in the anime, I think it’s important to keep in mind:

Whether intentional or by a very unfortunate and badly-thought analogy, SnK perpetuates antisemitic tropes. It doesn’t matter that the eldians are “displayed in a sympathetic light”. The Holocaust imagery, like the armbands, does create a clear link with Jewish people. By making Eldians capable of transforming into man-eating monsters, the manga/anime references the blood libel, an antisemitic conspiracy that has been historically used to dehumanize them.

The manga/anime is very popular in Alt-Right groups. There is a clear reason for this. The philosophical question that SnK poses about the division between “the nation and the enemies” is not resolved or elucidated and serves itself as a fascist thinkpiece. (in other words, it isn’t directly fascist, but it starts deconstructing fascist ideas and then just stops, leaving the story in limbo.)

Yes, it’s fiction. Yes, it can be consumed critically. Different political ideologies are explored in the manga/anime and, interpreted in a certain way, the story although pessimistic, tries to give an anti-war message. However, it cannot be consumed apolitically.

Isayama does his damn best in the last arcs to make genocide seem like the only option. Many other (and better) people on the fandom have already mentioned that diplomacy is never truly considered and that the story corners Eren into a Rumbling.

The problem is that SnK, by trying to be neutral, ends up endorsing very horrifying worldviews. There is no justification for genocide. Any excuses should have been rebutted as explicitly as they were expressed in the manga/anime. But they are not. Of course, there are characters in very explicit opposition. But their vision is offuscated a narrative that forces a lack of peaceful solutions.

Fiction is fiction, I agree. However, fiction also transmits messages, and it’s integrated into the large fabric of social discourses. You can watch AoT. But if you keep insisting that there are no harmful elements in the story, if you call yourself a “Yeagerist”, if you advocate for the 100% Rumbling (or any other Rumbling), it’s time to reflect on why you condone it.

#attack on titan #people come up with the dumbest takes #too busy trying to find some hidden special contrarian meaning than reading the story

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barsandkaines · 3 years ago

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1) It absolutely does matter how it’s using those stereotypes, that’s like saying *Schindler’s List* is antisemetic for... showing the Holocaust. You can call Attack on Titan tasteless or heavy-handed, but there’s no thinking person who sees it and goes “well, I guess the Jews deserved it?” You also have that “I haven’t actually watched the series” vibe where you seem to still think titans are wholly and unambiguously evil and not victims forced into being so by literal Nazis, a viewpoint that is a significant part of how the allegory is even made. Do you still think it’s a spoiler that Eren’s a titan?

2) How and when does it “stop” deconstructing fascist tropes? You talk about the alt-right fanbase and not the part where they’re mad the story DOESN’T support their side. They hate that Eren isn’t “cool”, they hate that the main characters want to save billions, they make up bad fanfiction...

3) You don’t have a leg to stand on “consuming art critically” while claiming something is fascist for having fascism in it. That’s the opposite of thinking critically. It’s a-crtical. I’m always amused by how people with these “Attack on Titan is fascist” takes that somehow assume they “found” something that no one else did. Who the fuck are you discussing this story with that they don’t acknowledge anything the show is literally SCREAMING to your face? Oh, Isayama thought he was clever, but I noticed the people in literal concentration camps! This story is saying something about the Holocaust (mainly: holy fuck was the Holocaust horrifying).

4) No, he doesn’t, especially if you understand a thing about Eren Yeager and more importantly how Isayama characterizes him (hint: Eren’s a psychopath and did the Rumbling because he wanted to). The Rumbling is the “only option” because the person and people who want it burn every single possible bridge. Characters who wholly agree with Eren are portrayed as nationalist fascists. Diplomacy IS considered. All the time. By the people who don’t want genocide. Hard to do diplomacy, though, when Eren is bellyflopping on the enemy. Eren LITERALLY forces the conditions for which he is able to perform the Rumbling, including forcing his father to kill children. And how dare the story have conflict?

5) A heroic character literally screams “GENOCIDE IS WRONG, NO MATTER WHAT” and you think it’s “neutral.” Okay. What is this nonsense? Bad things happen in spite of people trying to do good, so you read that as the story being in support of bad things...? Thanos is able to kill half the universe so therefore Infinity War supports Thanos! Shit, you might actually think that’s the case, do you?

With the Attack on Titan Rumbling arc starting in the anime, I think it’s important to keep in mind:

#attack on titan

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barsandkaines · 4 years ago

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lol I called out a user by saying “maybe you should actually watch No Way Home before whining about it”, so he replied with some sexist nonsense (” tom holland isn’t gonna fuck you, babygirl”) then blocked me. The Whitest Kid You Know.

He complains about a spoiler related to supposed sexism then claims anyone who watches a movie is a girl who wants to fuck Tom Holland, it’s wild. Actually imagine lacking this much self-awareness.

#spider-man no way home #spider-man #imagine being mad over tom holland's existence #it's like getting mad over toddlers #no way home

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barsandkaines · 4 years ago

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“Wow this movie is so dumb!!” “Have you watched it?” “...n-no, but these wikipedia passages show it’s really dumb!!”

I legit can’t imagine being proud to criticize something you refuse to engage with.

just read the synopsis of the movie and this shit fucking sucks.

#spider-man no way home #spider-man

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barsandkaines · 4 years ago

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I suggest actually watching the movie, my dude.

just read the synopsis of the movie and this shit fucking sucks.

#spider-man no way home #spider-man

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barsandkaines · 4 years ago

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I think Miles’ new suit should keep the grey webbing, but otherwise it’s an amazing redesign. I love the red stripes on his arms and sides.

#across the spiderverse #miles morales #spider-man

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barsandkaines · 4 years ago

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Britta Was Never Ruined, Actually

Unpopular opinion, apparently: Season 1 Britta, particularly the Pilot and the front 13 episodes Britta, was dreadfully boring and a sore thumb in the cast. Where everyone had a neurosis or flaw to the point of comedy, Britta was a boring straight man with no funny bone to pick on. Jeff was a borderline villain who needs to be taught that his lawyer crap won’t fly in Greendale; Annie was hyper antagonistic and insecure; Abed has trouble relating to people outside of media; Shirley had intense anger issues; Pierce was a perverted bigoted old man; Troy was a hyper-masculine jock; and Britta... smoked, I guess.

I shake my head every time people state that Britta was ruined specifically because the perfect, boring persona she had in the beginning wasn’t genuine. Especially silly when people blame it on Harmon hating women (there are things to criticize about Community’s female characters but “them being funny” is not one of them) when Britta’s own actress Gillian Jacobs suggested that she gets more silly and goofy since that’s actually funny and also works to the actress’ talents. It’s exactly like Sweet Dee in *It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia*. Boring as sin in Season 1 until the actress told the writers to let her be as awful as the rest of the cast. A comedy about non-functional at best, awful at worst people and you want a character who is just unironically better than everyone?

We wouldn’t have her speech in “The Science of Illusion” or her moments in episodes like “Intermediate Documentary Filmmaking” if she was the same character she was in the pilot. And as much as people criticize the latter seasons for her “decline”, it was evident as early as Season 1. Why would Pilot episode “I have douche-vision” Britta announce to the campus that she loves Jeff Winger, and then subsequently use her newfound status as the People’s Champion to get some positive female attention in her life, then get into a spat with Jeff that eventually evolves into a friends-with-benefits situation?

In an esoteric comedy like Community, Britta’s pilot personality did not work in the slightest and it’s not surprising that she was changed. Granted, yes, there were times where they did absolutely shit on her character entirely (remember when she shit herself?) and finding the best version of Britta is less pinning down a season and more finding the odd spikes where the writers gave a damn. For all the shit Season 4 rightfully gets, I think “Herstory of Dance” is perfect Britta: genuine interest and desire to help people, but a fundamental inability to do it right. She tries, and fails, but she *tries*. She makes a really stupid mistake but it’s out of genuine interest. The episode even explicitly calls out Jeff for using her name as an insult. We get goofy Britta humor but also character development and a sense that *despite her flaws*, the group loves her, and that’s more rewarding than if she never at a point to be disliked ever.

Judging by how this site criticizes the show, the “ideal” Britta apparently would be a woman who is always smart and right, never fails when it matters, and is beloved by everyone. Unless you are really eager for a role-model to attach to, this isn’t actually a good character. No character in the show is like this.

And I’ll be honest, it seems that people project onto the fact that Britta is characterized as a white feminist and, despite the fact that 95% of the time, when Community makes fun of her feminist values it’s not because “haha feminism”, but “haha Britta’s a hypocrite and ineffectual”, they seem to take making fun of Britta as Dan Harmon’s personal hatred towards women and feminism.

In “Spanish 101″, the show never made fun of the idea of a protest and even defended Annie and Shirley’s idea of protesting. Britta says shit like “I can excuse racism, but I draw the line at animal cruelty.” In “Bondage and Beta Male Sexuality”, her activist former friends are portrayed as both right in that they are doing more than Britta ever did but also colossal assholes and belitting her and making her feel like shit for her lot in life. The joke’s not on feminism, it’s on Britta, who is a bad feminist but still a feminist. If the show was made today, exactly the same, it would most definitely be seen as a critique towards white feminism.

Community later introduced a “straight-man” character who actually does fit with the show; and now I’ll talk about how perfect Frankie is in every way, without being perfect in the slightest. She’s a straight man in a way that works; her grounded personality isn’t her being a buzzkill but a new way to navigate Greendale’s insanity. She wants to make money for the school so she wheels in prisoners on tablets and fawns over a murderer. Even when she’s actively against the group’s interest to be silly, they sacrifice potential comedy for actual character development, like in “Modern Espionage” where her desire to stop paintball absolutely makes sense and the characters come to realize that. Also, her making the Committee dress like toddlers to prove a point is one of the best tags. She knows how the characters tic and play off them but it’s not to shut them down, it’s to make the best of them, and in turn her.

None of that is what Britta offered in Season 1. She *was* a buzzkill. She *was* boring. And she got better. Did the writers go too far at times? Yeah. Was it overall a net positive? Absolutely? Britta is one of my favorite

#britta perry #community

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