immiryn - Tumblr blog

[immiryn]

For my friend, it happened outside of "kinnie spaces". One person making accusations had been around a couple of community spaces for a while. I have no experience with "kinnie spaces" on the other hand.

On Otherkin And Cancel Culture

In the effort of being clear, I have personal experience with the topic at hand. I write this in an effort to spread awareness of the behaviors that I've witnessed.

It's also worth noting that I am speaking solely to my experiences in the Otherkin communities online, and that any prescriptions are to be taken in said context.

-----

My experience with the clumps of Otherkin communities is transitory. I'm a nomad. From one community to the next, I move. If a community dies, I move. If something particularly egregious happens that I cannot stomach, I move.

I have always searched for a place to call "home" in these communities, and these places for one reason or another lack what I need or desire. Often it's that activity dwindles down and that eventually a server "dies" of natural causes. In one or two occasions, it has been due to acts of a moderator or "public figure" of the server; whether that is something that I disliked personally, or something that affected the reputation of the place and thus caused a rift in the membership.

Within these communities, I have found a sense of tribalism. You are With, or you are Not. You cohere, or you leave. What brings us together is a sense of being Something Other, and sometimes some people are too Other.

This lines up squarely with my last big post, on "Kinnies" and discourse. Regardless of what the individual uses the term for, and regardless of whether they may learn about themselves as part of the group and cohere quite well, the clumps of community have sometimes decided that this was too Other for them. They don't fit into the tribe, so it's time to boot them out.

In general, as long as people are being respectful about it, I don't see a problem with server staff deciding what the focus of their server will be. It's when members decide this, or when people deign to be disrespectful and act without empathy in the process.

Something else that I've witnessed is more sinister in outcome. Most people who don't fit a particular tribe will find another to join. People who have been publicly called out and shamed over any number of behaviors will not.

The topic of the day is Cancel Culture. Hot words, hot topic. Strap in.

If you have substantial evidence, making a call-out post may well be worth it, especially in the more predatory circumstances. This typically involves a manifesto - a long document detailing clearly the transgressions and the evidence that proves that these transgressions happened.

A call-out post may come in two other forms:

A post is put out warning people away from someone. This can range from a paragraph to a few paragraphs, perhaps with a picture or two but sometimes without anything more than anecdotal evidence.

Someone says something in a community space, warning persons away from person X.

In both cases, there is little or no evidence of a transgression other than what one or possibly two people felt happened. There may not even be a criminal act involved. In this digital age, people are more than fine with getting angry over a minor argument and making it into something more.

Why is this a problem? Because people tend to trust their peers with their (social) safety, and don't engage in critical thinking as a result. This implicit trust allows people to share things like "x person did y thing, don't let them hang around". Short statements proliferate far more readily - if you've been on Twitter, you know what I mean - and the discrimination spreads.

When the discrimination is by an admin/mod or by someone who knows them well enough, it can spread through a community space without any real effort involved.

So, the target gets called out for their actions. What happens next?

They may be removed from the server or community with or without due process.

They may be ostracized from other community spaces as word spreads.

Individuals who find themselves vexed enough will assert their right to "keep others safe" by talking to people who associate with the target.

The above behaviors may even occur in a form of intervention, wherein language is used to encourage the target's associates to drift away in one manner or another.

Seems fair and all, but have you asked what kind of Justice this is? Here are consequences of our actions, in order:

Removed the target's ability to learn from their mistakes or argue for or against their issues.

Removed the target's ability to create new associations and learn to integrate into the community (or communities).

Allowed the target to take harassment for their actions.

Allowed the target's associates to be interacted with or manipulated in favor of reducing the assumed effects the target may have on others, which incurs stress and potential little-t trauma on the associates.

Allowed the target to have their associates removed from them, whom may have been able to interact with and understand the actions of the target in a way that allows them to communicate to the target about what happened.

In short, we've punished the target in a way that may not be befitting of the crimes, and we've done so in a way that removes their path towards reformation.

That's Retributive Justice. It creates suffering for the sake of suffering, making spaces "safer" but eliminating people who could contribute to the spaces we share.

-----

It's something that has happened to a friend of mine. Someone who was outspoken and sometimes quite brash in certain communal spaces, but who endeavored to improve the lives of people around them. The consequences for their "actions" have been severe, and people felt it necessary to intervene in my personal life as a way to get at theirs.

I have watched as my friend lost friends, lost people to communicate with and to understand the world through. I saw them lose access to the only place that was willing to host them in the first place, all because one or two people in charge got a bug up their ass over baseless allegations.

My friend lost the opportunity to argue their position, or to reform...if indeed there ever was one.

In the process, I lost my ability to trust in them. Fears, doubts, and traumas were stepped on without a care because the intervening individual "cared for my safety" ... despite only talking to me once or twice, a year or two ago. I've been having to work hard, to journal and process how I felt while trying to understand the motivations and the feelings on the other side.

-----

Shame and blame don't create reform. They merely allow us to create suffering for the sake of our own suffering.

Be wary of anyone who would shame or blame someone else without evidence to back it up. Especially if it's someone who holds a position of power in the social space(s) you inhabit.

[immiryn]

What is the world you want to live in?

What is the justice you would bring to bear?

Ask yourself these and more. There is nothing more important than to understand your desires. Look at us dragons and our hoards! Clearly, we know ourselves and our priorities.

[immiryn]

On Otherkin And Cancel Culture

In the effort of being clear, I have personal experience with the topic at hand. I write this in an effort to spread awareness of the behaviors that I've witnessed.

It's also worth noting that I am speaking solely to my experiences in the Otherkin communities online, and that any prescriptions are to be taken in said context.

-----

My experience with the clumps of Otherkin communities is transitory. I'm a nomad. From one community to the next, I move. If a community dies, I move. If something particularly egregious happens that I cannot stomach, I move.

I have always searched for a place to call "home" in these communities, and these places for one reason or another lack what I need or desire. Often it's that activity dwindles down and that eventually a server "dies" of natural causes. In one or two occasions, it has been due to acts of a moderator or "public figure" of the server; whether that is something that I disliked personally, or something that affected the reputation of the place and thus caused a rift in the membership.

Within these communities, I have found a sense of tribalism. You are With, or you are Not. You cohere, or you leave. What brings us together is a sense of being Something Other, and sometimes some people are too Other.

This lines up squarely with my last big post, on "Kinnies" and discourse. Regardless of what the individual uses the term for, and regardless of whether they may learn about themselves as part of the group and cohere quite well, the clumps of community have sometimes decided that this was too Other for them. They don't fit into the tribe, so it's time to boot them out.

In general, as long as people are being respectful about it, I don't see a problem with server staff deciding what the focus of their server will be. It's when members decide this, or when people deign to be disrespectful and act without empathy in the process.

Something else that I've witnessed is more sinister in outcome. Most people who don't fit a particular tribe will find another to join. People who have been publicly called out and shamed over any number of behaviors will not.

The topic of the day is Cancel Culture. Hot words, hot topic. Strap in.

If you have substantial evidence, making a call-out post may well be worth it, especially in the more predatory circumstances. This typically involves a manifesto - a long document detailing clearly the transgressions and the evidence that proves that these transgressions happened.

A call-out post may come in two other forms:

A post is put out warning people away from someone. This can range from a paragraph to a few paragraphs, perhaps with a picture or two but sometimes without anything more than anecdotal evidence.

Someone says something in a community space, warning persons away from person X.

In both cases, there is little or no evidence of a transgression other than what one or possibly two people felt happened. There may not even be a criminal act involved. In this digital age, people are more than fine with getting angry over a minor argument and making it into something more.

Why is this a problem? Because people tend to trust their peers with their (social) safety, and don't engage in critical thinking as a result. This implicit trust allows people to share things like "x person did y thing, don't let them hang around". Short statements proliferate far more readily - if you've been on Twitter, you know what I mean - and the discrimination spreads.

When the discrimination is by an admin/mod or by someone who knows them well enough, it can spread through a community space without any real effort involved.

So, the target gets called out for their actions. What happens next?

They may be removed from the server or community with or without due process.

They may be ostracized from other community spaces as word spreads.

Individuals who find themselves vexed enough will assert their right to "keep others safe" by talking to people who associate with the target.

The above behaviors may even occur in a form of intervention, wherein language is used to encourage the target's associates to drift away in one manner or another.

Seems fair and all, but have you asked what kind of Justice this is? Here are consequences of our actions, in order:

Removed the target's ability to learn from their mistakes or argue for or against their issues.

Removed the target's ability to create new associations and learn to integrate into the community (or communities).

Allowed the target to take harassment for their actions.

Allowed the target's associates to be interacted with or manipulated in favor of reducing the assumed effects the target may have on others, which incurs stress and potential little-t trauma on the associates.

Allowed the target to have their associates removed from them, whom may have been able to interact with and understand the actions of the target in a way that allows them to communicate to the target about what happened.

In short, we've punished the target in a way that may not be befitting of the crimes, and we've done so in a way that removes their path towards reformation.

That's Retributive Justice. It creates suffering for the sake of suffering, making spaces "safer" but eliminating people who could contribute to the spaces we share.

-----

It's something that has happened to a friend of mine. Someone who was outspoken and sometimes quite brash in certain communal spaces, but who endeavored to improve the lives of people around them. The consequences for their "actions" have been severe, and people felt it necessary to intervene in my personal life as a way to get at theirs.

I have watched as my friend lost friends, lost people to communicate with and to understand the world through. I saw them lose access to the only place that was willing to host them in the first place, all because one or two people in charge got a bug up their ass over baseless allegations.

My friend lost the opportunity to argue their position, or to reform...if indeed there ever was one.

In the process, I lost my ability to trust in them. Fears, doubts, and traumas were stepped on without a care because the intervening individual "cared for my safety" ... despite only talking to me once or twice, a year or two ago. I've been having to work hard, to journal and process how I felt while trying to understand the motivations and the feelings on the other side.

-----

Shame and blame don't create reform. They merely allow us to create suffering for the sake of our own suffering.

Be wary of anyone who would shame or blame someone else without evidence to back it up. Especially if it's someone who holds a position of power in the social space(s) you inhabit.

[immiryn]

If you ever hear a dragon claiming you as their own, run.

Or don't. It means that they like you and want to keep you around. Whether that's as a confidant, a lover, a rival or whatever else you happen to be to them.

They've made their choice to care about you and your existence. Probably best to accept.

[immiryn]

What kind of world would you want to live in, little hatchling?

[immiryn]

We speak before we think, we emote before we speak, and it all runs around in a vicious cycle of putting our asses over our heads.

Dragons call that a snack. Something about going well with ketchup.

[immiryn]

Ask yourself why.

Go ahead, I won't listen in.

Done? Now ask "Why?" to that too.

Analyze why you think what you think and where what you think may actually come from.

You'd be surprised how much of your behavior is learned from others.

[immiryn]

On Otherkin Discourse & Kinnies

I don't feel like I have the right to ascribe intent to others the way some people do. It feels to me that assuming that most Kinnies are bad faith actors is a a terrible idea, because we are then lumping people who could grow into valuable community members because their experience is different in with trolls. Take the following point as an example:

We as Otherkin often say that you don't choose your kin-type. To us this feels like it is a form of truth, because to us, it is. That doesn't mean it's a universal truth. By telling other people that "you don't choose your kin-type", we are pushing our personal truths onto others. In the process, we exclude people who don't or can't necessarily understand that concept. Some people need to feel a degree of freedom in making choices so that they can feel more comfortable with themselves and their identities.

When we assume that everything is a threat to ourselves and our identities, we create an unhealthy, exclusionary mentality that others people for being different than our own experiences. We ignore the the fact that the person on the other end of the screen may in fact be A Real Person(tm) and discard all empathy and objectivity on the basis of a singular portion of a person's identity. It's absolutely disgusting, and it's a mindset that proliferates itself regardless of whether we genuinely engage in it or not.

Let's talk about how this exclusionary mindset plays out in communities - Discord servers in particular. I've been through a fair number since Discord released nearly six years ago, and I've seen how discourse surrounding trolls, cringe, and Kinning have impacted some of them.

The following is based on my experiences and may not be indicative of your community. YMMV. That being said, I observed this on a few servers - it was not isolated to one group of people. It is likely more common than you think.

Generally speaking, it seems that people who aren't able to engage in genuine/good-faith discourse tend to be people who are easily influenced, or who want to engage but can't develop an opinion on their own, or otherwise who don't care and will just fit in with others "for the lulz". These people tend to band together and create the bandwagon for others to ride on, especially if there's a particularly loud voice to ride with. Those who are able to think critically can often get caught up in these echo chambers due to peer pressure.

The people who aren't willing to hop on the bandwagon and who are genuinely willing to offer criticism on the behavior and why we should be empathetic towards the targeted group get ostracized. They leave. Negative behaviors become reinforced, and admins and moderators are often complicit with this. They may even reach across Discord servers to inform other communities of people they've spurned.

People spin up hateposts about the most outspoken individuals, regardless of whether those people were good faith or not.

We wind up back where we started. A bunch of outcasts, similar in experiences but not united. We cast each other on the pyre, and we tell those who might genuinely seek community to jump in. The fire's warm, after all. Don't mind how your soul singes, that just tells you that you feel welcomed.

[immiryn]

Dragon Wisdom:

You can't trust if you fear pain.

[immiryn]

To be a good host is to accept that your guests may not wish to stay for supper.

Also, don't eat the guests.

[immiryn]

To listen is not to embrace unerringly. It is to hear out, to pay attention to, to heed. One is not required to act on what they hear.

[immiryn]

You are all you need to be, little hatchling.  Anything you desire, you can grow into.  Time and the willingness to try is all that is required.

[immiryn]

When critical thinking, self-education, understanding your community, and empathizing with other people are nuclear takes...

You’ve lost.  Get eaten.

[immiryn]

It’s been a while.  Let’s skip the wisdom for tonight.  Come, sit around the fire pit.

How are you doing?

[immiryn]

Come on in.

If you’re new here, welcome.  Come on in.  The fire is warm and the tea is ready for visitors.

I’m Immiryn.  This is my den.  I like to share thoughts, wisdom, advice, and sometimes very short stories about life in general.

I especially enjoy making people think about what they do and why they do it.  There are so many things that people take for granted, or don’t even understand about themselves and others.  Dragons don’t survive by ignoring each other, nor will anyone else.

To quote a popular video game, “We All Lift Together”.

Also, don’t be afraid to shoot me an Ask.  I don’t bite.  https://immiryn.tumblr.com/ask

[immiryn]

Dragon Wisdom:

We make monsters out of each other.  No one is born a monster.

[immiryn]

Dragon Wisdom:

Sometimes we must take a break from sharing wisdom to share reality.