pancake404

[pancake404]

Well that now that Sunny has finally started crashing out, I think it's only fair that Sunny gets a voodoo doll of CatNap. Use it wisely, Sunny.

Also what will happen if I give Yarnaby catnip?

(On top of that idk if I should be proud or concern that I managed to impress 1354)

“I struggle to tell who’s in control. Is it the mirror or 1185? Perhaps both? Maybe the mirror influencing 1185. Either way, an interesting tool to summon in 1185’s hands. He’s showing signs of drunkenness almost. 1185 doesn’t seem interested in answering any questions evidently.”

“Regardless, it seems like you assistants had made your choice on the vote. As expected, you chose dear Hoppy.”

“Very well then…as promised.”

“Convincing him shouldn’t be too hard. Quinn is still Quinn after all.”

“To answer some of your questions, I suppose I could…Catnip doesn’t have too much of an effect but could make Quinn nauseous, smell colors, roll around a lot, and often hit his head on walls. It’s kind of unpredictable and it often varies so I can give you too much of straight answer.”

“About any regrets? What I would change? Hmm…then I’d say not fall into those backstabbers’ trap. To get experimented. I remember it all. My organs being removed surgically yet roughly, my mind being trapped in those screens, and my golden path of glory all crumbled in front of my now many eyes. It was admittedly painful to watch. But there is no use moping about it. Not when there’s more opportunities soon to come. Possibilities with the mirrors. I’ll eventually figure it out…”

You hear laughter from the Doctor

[pancake404]

Another Day in the Orphanage

Another moment of the past. I was thinking back to the ARG of Chapter three and when Theodore was asked about his friend(Prototype), Theodore acknowledges that no one else seems to have seen him or think he even exists which led me to wonder if Theo tried showing or explaining the Prototype to the other orphans?

We could take it a step further and add in the possibility that Theo was told by the Prototype about some of the experiments going on and the urgency to get out. Theo would’ve tried to warn the others but of course not many, if any, believed him. Thinking it was all weird childish imagination of Theo’s to scare the kids.

There could be a lot of angst as Theo would see one by one, orphans he was familiar with being “adopted” while Theo knew that chances are, they weren’t. So all he could do was sit back and watch as he couldn’t raise too much notice as the bad men would know that he knew and Theo would be next nor could he show the Prototype as proof as Theo feared the bad men would torture his friend. It probably gave more incentive to get out as maybe Theo and the Prototype could contact anybody and raise awareness about what Playtime was doing, saving a lot of lives.

But at the last moment of escape…Theo messed up with the green grab pack, ruining the plan in his mind at the very least.

In the FG’s limbo AU, the responsibility of the experiments continuing weighs a lot on Catnap. He believes that with his failure, he messed up one of the few chances the orphans had. He may not be the most social person nor does he like others often, but he DEFINITELY thinks none of them deserved to be experimented and perhaps some could’ve been saved before experimentation had he not failed, the orphans could’ve been saved from being lab rats. Over the years, thanks to Leith and Harley, Catnap realized that’s all they were. Lab rats.

Regardless, this had me wondering…was there children that figured out something wasn’t right about Playtime? Surely a couple saw the bigger bodies they were hanging with and were like, “What the hell are these!? These ain’t normal!” Probably a couple even saw the abuse some of the staff gave to the toys when they thought no one was looking. It’s all very interesting.

[pancake404]

Was your next experiment going to be BBI Nightmare Critters before the HoJ happened? Well, I guess Baba was a variant of a BBI since she was bigger than a Mini Critter but wasn't walking on her hind legs like the Smiling Critters, except Catnap, were.

“Unfortunately, the Hour of Joy prevented those projects from occurring. I attempted to try anyway afterward but 1006 refused to give men labs access(a nuisance…). Baba was originally suppose to be a Bigger Body but I decided against it as when I began working on her, she clearly was able to recall and keep most of her intelligent mind intact but she at times had a rebellious phase…but she came right back to me either way.”

[pancake404]

Sawyer, I heard that Angel was a former worker before being experimented on. We found out after seeing his face open and eat a dead Mini Huggy. What was Angel's experiment number?

”Last I checked…we hit a maximum of roughly 1500 before the Hour of Joy. Unless those damn backstabbers decided to leave me out of experiments too.”

[pancake404]

The Two Sides

You know...when looking at the roster of bigger bodies/main toys on both Poppy and Prototype's sides, it's kind of cool to see that they're pretty much reflections of each other.

Here's pretty much the basic comparison between the two groups.

Poppy and Prototype: Both are the main leaders of their respective groups, both are closely tied to each other in Lore and connection, both are intelligent(though the Prototype is smarter), both agree on the same things such as leaving the factory, and both can even behave almost the same way.

The Prototype:

Lies to get others to do what they want for a greater purpose

Kills or gets others to kill anyone that opposes him

Has his primary follower which he betrays(Catnap)

Then there's Poppy:

Lies to get others to do what they want for a greater purpose(Poppy is very secretive to Doey even when Doey demands an answer and Poppy is constantly not letting the Player in on certain information until way later AFTER the Player does the tasks)

Poppy is not against getting the Player to kill any toy in the way up until an actual ally of her dies because her plan backfired.

Has a primary follower, Kissy Missy, which she abandons(also the Player too).

Player and Doctor: Both are known to be former workers in the factory and most likely in the labs, both have a connection with the "bell" that Sawyer mentions, both are the most human(Sawyer compared to anyone else) of the group, both are described to show a lot of promise and capabilities, and Sawyer constantly talks about how the "experiments hurt us", grouping them up together as one(he does that quite often).

Doey and Mommy Long Legs: Both are described or shown to take care of the other toys like parent-figures, both comment about eating and how long they haven't eaten, when things go south both go into a frenzy and get really hostile, both talk about constantly playing games with the Player when hunting them, both have skepticism and distrust with the player at first(Mommy was going to kill them anyway), both were viewed highly by the orphans(Matthew for Doey's case), and both show active hesitation or defiance to the leader.

Catnap and Dogday: Both are very tied to religious themes such as Dogday's terms of "Poppy's Angel" and the fact that he was crucified while for Catnap, it's his "Lord", "Angel of Salvation", "I rejoice in him", and the other dozen religious theme going on with Catnap. Both also look for a savior(For Dogday, it's Poppy and the Player. For Catnap, it's of course the Prototype).

Kissy and Huggy: Both have the same abilities as their respective toys, a lot of parallels in their injuries, and avid followers for the leader.

Now obviously, there's the differences between the two sides. While Poppy is described to be a a nice and mature leader, the Prototype, given what we can assume, is cold and ruthless.

The Doctor is very talkative, lacks fear of death, often makes his own decisions, and is very feared upon by everyone else. While the Player, is silent, been described to show fear and shake, constantly listens to orders by Poppy, and is constantly underestimated until the Player successfully does the impossible for the four time in a row.

While Doey is shown to be extremely caring and protective for the Save Haven but also generally has no ill will even to the Player until everything blows which then makes him go insane and he obtains his crash out. But for Mommy, she has a fake mother-like personality that she keeps to mask her hunger and desire to kill the Player, sets it up already where the Player was going to die anyway, and is willing to kill the toys she takes care of when they fail.

Dogday, given what little what we've seen of him, doesn't seem to possess a desire for the Player to die as he tries to get to leave the place now as there's no saving anyone here. He also despises Catnap for being a follower of the Prototype but also because Dogday fell victim to Catnap's Autobot Jazz joke gone wrong. He's also overall hopeless about being saved as he just tells the Player to move on from Playcare and to continue with Poppy's mission. Meanwhile Catnap, is...self explanatory. He obviously doesn't want the Player in Playcare either but when the Player continues to push it, Catnap becomes hostile.

Kissy is very gentle and shows little to no harm except for a few moments of stress and during the Hour of Joy while Huggy is extremely hostile, barging down doors to get to the Player in seconds and still trying to kill the Player after falling fifty stories.

Now as stated previously and listing off the differences and similarities, it's pretty clear that they're meant to be almost mirrors of each other. Two factions that are essentially the same but then there's the question on why one group is way more hostile and twisted than the other.

That's when it became clear to me about one interesting thing to note: Isolation.

The Safe Haven, and pretty much everyone in the group is a community all huddled together where they help each other maintain sanity and survive. All three bigger bodies(DD, Doey, and Kissy) are all pictured together in a mural. But what about the other side?

When we look at how they interact...they don't. It's a toy eat toy world. All three bigger bodies(Catnap, Huggy, and Mommy) are all on different floors. Each have their own different sections, none of them even acknowledge each other.

Poppy's side and the Prototype's side is essentially:

Isolation vs Togetherness

We see a core theme of how isolation creates monsters. This was shown no better in Chapter 4 and the main monsters in the other chapters.

Huggy: Shown to be with Kissy but for some reason, they're no longer together and Huggy is alone on the first floor doing the same job as he always did.

Mommy: Constantly felt left behind when the children never came back, was the only toy like her in the Game Station for possibly years and eventually went insane by Playtime Co.

Miss Delight: Was specifically picked out to be the one to die among the sisters, causing her to go insane with hunger and turn on everyone else.

Dogday(possessed): He's the only one left of the Smiling Critters, alone in the cell, and alone where no one in the Safe Haven knew where he was(or perhaps didn't/couldn't help him). When the Player meets up him, as he's being used like a puppet by the minis, the first thing he says is to leave him.

Doey(at the end of the game): After everyone else at Safe Haven died, he crashes out and unleashes the monster form and attacks the Player.

Catnap: Automatically the odd man out of the the whole group both in the cartoon and as a bigger body. Theodore was described as anti social and struggled making friends so he was already alone when the Prototype came in. Catnap's room is a section below the prison where it's an underground bedroom where again, he's alone. Catnap's job is primarily at night which it would make sense if he was the only one with that job. Ollie even acknowledges that there used to be eight Smiling Critters but it's just him(of course, he neglects to mention Dogday).

Yarnaby: Literally described to be isolated by Sawyer to the point Sawyer was his whole world.

Baba Chops: Although not much information about game variant, the cartoon variant is a homebody, someone who stays alone at home often and rarely interested in going out.

Harley Sawyer himself: He felt that no one understood him and when Elliot kicked him out of the program, he felt even more betrayed and went deeper into isolating himself, trying to be the best scientist, the biggest genius, etc.

Most likely the Prototype too: Never seen to interact with anyone(besides the scientists) in any tapes regarding containment and has probably been down in the labs pretty much the whole time. If anyone was isolated, it was the Prototype as he's the leader of the most deranged, isolated group of children to walk the factory. If anything, he particularly aimed for toys that suffered in isolation knowing what that could do someone. He would know of course.

Not sure where I am going with this but it's something I've noticed. I'm curious to see if isolation gets to Kissy Missy now that she's alone and was just abandoned by her leader she was loyal to.

[pancake404]

Maybe your Angel can be an experiment in both universes? Like, one in the Limbo AU, and one in the other AU?

I suppose that works.

[pancake404]

Is there a way that you can let us contact the other Smiling Critters, Doctor?

[pancake404]

To be fair, your still a manipulated puppet that follows the prototype like a sad pathetic cat, haven't moved onto doing anything productive and pretty much still pretty much the same regardless of what we say to you. Were all pretty much waiting for you to either break or just die with the prototype so this can be over with. Plus...Dogday is pretty much the only other person or at least someone that isn't completely horrible, only marginally bad compared to your mess of issues. Sides, better to be a heretic and mean for something instead of a puppet and still do completely nothing in terms of 'helping' with how every mini critter is either feral or afraid of this 'hell'. Otherwise. Go to hell and maybe, just maybe...you'll actual find parent's that will love and care for you or just treat you like an abuse toy, Theodore. Oh my mistake. 'Catnap'.

“At this rate, you’re starting to become my helpful lab assistants, wouldn’t THAT be an honor? For now, I just got to be a bit patient and wait until the final blow where it would really disorient the subject.”

The Doctor is pleased.

[pancake404]

So do you have any remorse after what you did to dogday?

“1185’s mirror seems to possess large strength. I can just feel it and I’m assuming 1188 can too given that he’s showing signs of caution. Perhaps 1188 had already seen this before and knows its capabilities? Curious. I’ll keep watch.”

[pancake404]

Fun Facts of Red and Blue AU

Alan likes and often makes dark jokes. Overtime, as Speed learned about the others, Alan had a whole set of ammunition that he would randomly pop out. A lot of the times though, it comes out as dark without the humor since he lacks the idea of what makes things humorous and for some reason, he always says it when inconveniently in control of Speed. Alan, at times can joke about his family’s death as a coping mechanism, laughing to himself from self mockery.

Whenever Lazuli hits Speed, Alan would briefly come out afterward and Speed has to do the most in preventing Alan from attacking Lazuli. Alan…really does not like her and would be completely fine using her as bait for the wolves the first chance he gets. Speed does NOT trust Alan(in control)to be in the same room as Lazuli alone as he fears Alan will try to hurt her and take it too far(he ABSOLUTELY would).

Speed acts a lot more closer and fatherly to Sunshine in this timeline as Alan enforces it since he knows that any day, life can strip those you love right in front of your eyes. In other words, whenever Sunshine is there, Alan has a loaded gun on Speed to play and be with Sunshine or else. Whenever Alan is in control, he’s honestly a better father due to experience and his prioritization of Sunshine. Ironically enough, Sunshine is slightly nervous whenever her father has “monster eyes” as Alan unintentionally can appear intimidating even for Sunshine. She slowly gets used to it and later doesn’t even notice if he has those eyes or not. “Daddy’s Daddy, no matter what.”

Alan’s prioritization and care for others works like this:

Stella and Sunshine/Moonlight

Kris and Flare

Pearl

Pooka(if Pooka was in the world)

Everyone else in the world has the same equivalency and can all rot for all he cares.

[pancake404]

Limbo Theo and Sunny’s reunion is a nutshell

Catnap did not find the stairs of hell…and Dogday followed him despite Catnap trying to shoo him away.

Fun Fact about the limbo: Time works slower in it than outside in the alive factory. By the time Doey arrived, it has been about a month. Overtime through awkward interaction, Catnap and Dogday began learning how to…coexist as Dogday wasn’t sure who to turn to(some Smiling Critters were…a bit unfriendly) and Catnap begrudgingly didn’t allow anyone else to hurt Dogday.

After all, if anyone gets to hurt him, it’s Theo. No one else.

[pancake404]

Was the Player also a Conspirator?

You know, I've been thinking about Chapter 4 recently. Specifically the tape in the Warden's office where we see how the Doctor manipulated the Warden in the Hour of Joy to obtain the Omni-Hand. However, during the discussion, the Warden questions how any of this could've happened as there were fail safes and the Doctor responds,

"Personal agendas have long been the downfall of this company. Is it unreasonable to believe there were conspirators? Playtime is filled with vipers and backstabbers."

The Warden then argues that only he, Leith, Stella, and Eddie had that clearance and soon the Doctor pushes the topic aside to convince the Warden for the Omni-Hand.

This tape was picked up by others and people were theorizing that the conspirator was Stella and I agree with the theory. Stella has both access and motive that the Prototype could use to orchestrate the Hour of Joy since Stella cared about the children and struggled with standing up to how wrong everything was, fearing probably for her life as she knows Playtime is more than willing to kill anyone who's trying to blow a whistle. So when the opportunity was found through a deal with the Prototype, she took it.

It is easy to leave it like that as mystery solved but I also was thinking about the wording the Doctor has when regarding about there be a conspirator. The Doctor specifically states, "Is it unreasonable to believe there were conspirators? Playtime is filled with vipers and backstabbers."

Plural, meaning more than one is referenced.

When you think about it, it makes sense for there to be more than one conspirator of the Hour of Joy. Even with executive access, the factory is gargantuan. It makes sense if it would take a little more than just one conspirator to help with the Hour of Joy.

We already see bits of tampering with things like tapes such as Kissy's VHS tape in Mob Entertainment's Youtube channel where there is tampered instructions to "loosen the straps binding the giant." In Chapter three when we see the emergency screen in the counselors office which presuming would've been played during the Hour of Joy, that too, is disrupted.

Now then, let's focus on the Player character...

What do we know about them?

Not much but we do have hints specifically in Chapter Three and Four.

I'll start with Chapter Four as it less clear hints but as the Doctor states about there being backstabbers, he first mentions that personal agendas have long been the downfall of this company. And who's personal agenda does the Doctor question and make note of in Chapter Four? The Player's as the Doctor asks,

"But I'm curious. Why come back? It can't be that vague letter was your only reason. Was there someone you loved here? Someone you'd lost? Was it the pain of not knowing for sure that brought you here?"

It's interesting how the game takes the time for the Doctor to acknowledge and ask on the Player's reasoning. Of course, the Player doesn't say anything like always but it does leave us questioning about if there's other motives that the Player hadn't let on yet.

Not only that, but the Doctor also mentions a detail about the Player that's also note worthy.

"Certainly not an employee like you. But something makes you different...I can tell that much. Though I can't say what exactly that something is."

The Player is often acknowledged as "different" or "perfect" and I think this emphasis can lead us to believe that the Player is NOT an ordinary employee. Either he was a conspirator, scientist, or a human-looking toy(or perhaps all of them) the Player is repeatedly mentioned to be more special than any other regular employee.

Admittedly, these examples are not evidence that the Player was a conspirator alone but it when combined with Chapter Three, things get interesting.

Now...Chapter Three.

One small thing to quickly mention that in the school section, Miss Delight(and Mommy Long Legs too in Chapter Two) actively acknowledges remembering the Player used to work here. That would indicate the Player was at least in the presence of these bigger bodies in the Game Station and Playcare for them to clearly recall us. This could hint that the Player character at the very least, knew about these toys and had dealt with them enough for them to recognize the Player's face.

Now onto a significant moment in the chapter, the hallucination segment with the monstrous Huggy Wuggy. This segment alone I believe shows a subconscious within the Player's mind and it is littered with evidence such as...

"Happy and fun, why was it done." -- Carvings on the floors and walls.

"Guilt Haunts You." -- Also a caving scratched on the floors and walls.

"So should you come back tomorrow feeling unhappy for where are you or what you've done worry not for you supervisor is here and happy to listen..." -- VHS Tape of Huggy

"And...should you come back years later...your conscience finally getting the better of you..." -- VHS Tape of Huggy

Essentially, it's spelling out for us that the Player has heavy guilt in their mind and it was something they've done years prior when they were in the factory. Most would assume it's probably something to deal with the experiments and although it can very well be, it might also be the added reason of being the reason the Hour of Joy happened in the first place. The Player knew that the toys must've still been in there even with all the employees going "missing" and it most likely would be a heavy burden to carry around for a decade until the letter came and the Player gave in and came back.

But that's not the only thing that shown in the hallucination segment, we also hear a radio talking backwards and I believe this to be the most important as unlike everything else, this one, you had to put effort(which is just...reversing the audio) to discover what is spoken, highlighting the significance. It's also near a "Guilt Haunts You" sign so it is slapping you in the face that it is important.

Anyhow, the backwards radio states,

"I find your presence intrusive. After all this time you return. You come in here and kill and murder. You pillage and destroy!"

Clearly the Player character is not welcomed in the factory by whoever this voice is. It's referencing the Player's actions so far as all it they have done was get all the toys they encountered killed(except Huggy who was presumed dead until later).

"Your presence was demanded ten years ago and you didn't show up. 8. 8. 1995. You were supposed to be here. Why weren't you here?"

This is interesting because it doesn't say it like as an employee, the Hour of Joy was meant to kill you hence you had to be present. But the fact that the Player's presence in that day was "demanded" and they "were supposed to be here" could mean that the Player was more significant in the Hour of Joy than any regular employee.

A realization also struck me as when thinking further on it, if Stella was a contributor in the Hour of Joy, was she spared? Answer, probably not, and that means that even if you were a conspirator, you were killed too. So, if you knew what day is was supposed to occur, all you had to do to not die was simply not show up.

"You missed the event. You missed the meeting. You missed the party! You have no right to be here! 8. 8. 1995."

The Hour being described as a party could only come from someone who actively viewed the Hour of Joy as a good thing which is most likely the Prototype. But it's also described as an event and meeting so there could've been more to the day and the conspirators than originally thought.

So...with this in mind. I believe there can be a clear picture based on the this theory of what happened.

The Player character, someone with awareness of the toys such as Miss Delight and Mommy Long Legs most likely also knew about the fact that they were orphans experimented on(if not contributed to it even). Similar to Stella, this led to a increasing feeling of guilt which the Prototype knew how to exploit and use as a contributor for the Hour of Joy. But upon that day, the Player...didn't go. The Player might've chickened out and decided to not show up to work while knowing the Hour of Joy wasn't going to be stopped(or perhaps hoped that without the involvement of the Player, the Prototype wouldn't risk it but with Stella onboard, it wouldn't matter as she was the main essential anyway with clearance). Over the ten years, the guilt of their dead coworkers(and hopefully the children too) haunted the Player and when a letter arrived, showing that the employees were still there, that was the final push for the Player to say enough was enough.

Let's be real here, if your "missing" coworkers that you left for dead show evidence of at least some being alive, wouldn't you be a bit curious to see if by the slimmest of chances, it was true?

Either way, the Player finally returns a decade later knowing what was in store for them (the toys) given by hallucination Poppy's words of "this isn't a place you come back from." later in Chapter Three. The Player knew it was dangerous and that's why they didn't immediately sprint to the exit door once seeing Huggy disappear. But also, the Player figured that there was no chance any worker was alive down here and tried to leave through the train in Chapter Two before Poppy sabotages it and we get the rest of the game.

In Conclusion, the Player may have been a conspirator for the Hour of Joy.

What do you guys think? I spent way too long on this...

I also was thinking about if the radio was the Prototype but I also like the theory that the letter was from the Prototype as they had control of majority of the factory by the time the Player arrives. But it also doesn't make sense if both were right as why does the Prototype find the Player's presence intrusive if the Prototype was the one who actively invited the Player back to the factory in the first place...? See what I mean?

I have other theories in mind and I might post more of them in the future we'll just have to see.

[pancake404]

I believe that PW is a nice person who wanted to save everyone but failed every time because of the Prototype.

I personally disagree with the saving everyone as PW(given that their the Player) comes into the factory to find his coworkers(which they may or may not have already knew were dead). That was the whole point of the letter and once he found the Flower and opened Poppy’s case, that was it for PW. He literally boarded the train to LEAVE the factory once he got stuck there in Chapter 2. If PW knew there are other toys deeper down(let’s be real, they probably did), then PW was NOT interested enough to save them. It wasn’t until Poppy sabotaged it that PW was more or less stuck inside with supposedly no way out. Ollie even mentions that PW might’ve been angry that he didn’t get to leave. But according to Ollie in Chapter 3, PW made their choice and they were staying to help Poppy…in blowing everyone up because that’s Poppy’s plan and PW seems to agree with it enough that they’re willing to set up the bombs that the Prototype took.

Honestly, PW is the cause of most of their deaths. Huggy got dropped(survived and is pissed), Mommy got killed and the Prototype came in AFTER she was killed, PW also indirectly gets most of the other chapter two toys killed though that is a stretch, PW then goes into Playcare and gets Miss Delight killed, Dogday is discovered and PW stares when Dogday is straight up dying(not much he could do there anyway but saving Dogday seemed to be not in their mind), Catnap warns PW to leave, PW doesn’t and Catnap of course attacks where PW almost kills him which the Prototype finally comes in to finish the job, and then we go to Chapter 4 where Yarnaby is killed indirectly, Doctor is killed deliberately, and the Prototype gets Doey to crash out(which…again, PW stares and does nothing) and PW kills him.

To me, the Prototype kind of just sat back and let PW do the work as he really didn’t do much until Chapter 3 where PW fails to kill Catnap so the Prototype has to deal with that and Chapter 4 where the Prototype deliberately sets it up where Poppy’s side turns on each other. In other words, Doey and Catnap’s deaths were involved with the Prototype while PW failed to save everyone else by themself if that was ever their true intention.

When thinking about the story of Poppy Playtime, I like the story it has where it seemed like no character is truly innocent and has their varying motives for any action they do. Poppy, Catnap, Mommy, etc. all follow this. It would make sense if PW isn’t as great as a person as an “angel” would be(Dogday is like the only toy who has ever called the Player that and it was specifically “Poppy’s Angel”). But only time will tell and there’s a lot we don’t know.

[pancake404]

Meet Your Maker

“You, my friend, are a hero.”

This is the Player/PW(who I believe the player character is)

Despite everything, bro’s still coming out on top.

[pancake404]

Moonlight(Original/Virus Sunshine)

Decided that maybe Original Sunshine, or at least this variant that the virus created, could be called Moonlight as she is like the opposite of Sunshine.

[pancake404]

Mad with Love

So I drew possessed Subaru by the Sloth Arch Bishop. RE:Zero is one of my favorite anime and this moment really surprised me when it happened in the show.

[pancake404]

Catnap, remember Rule #3. Going against the rules means that you're disrespecting the Prototype.

“it’s funny how that one quote from Leith Pierre would have such an attachment to 1188. I guess the reality of his words was drilled into him after he died.”