#/shen qingqiu fucking dies: the book

[mxtxfanatic]

Tbh, I think if you read an mxtx novel with the expectation that the story’s hero is meant to learn some valuable lesson that fundamentally changes their character and views on life, then you are reading her books wrong. There’s not a single mxtx protag (currently) in existence who changes by the end of the story. It’s the world they live in that is changed because of their actions:

—Shen Yuan’s Shen Qingqiu transforms a toxic masculinity fantasy into a queer romance in which the unhappy stallion protagonist with a harem in the 100s is given his monogamous happy ending with a husband he actually loves and values with reciprocity. They fuck off to their forever honeymoon after exposing the corruptness of the cultivation world that ruined Luo Binghe’s life to begin with, and all of this was only possibly because Shen Yuan was just a genuinely nice fucking person. The world lives to see another day and a fuckton of people who died (or didn’t even get to exist) in the original stallion novel get to live long, more fulfilled lives in Shen Yuan’s revision.

—Wei Wuxian is killed for sticking up for a condemned clan, is resurrected against his will, and still stands by his actions in his first life while protecting those that continued to wrongfully condemn him. As a reward, the corpses of the people he died protecting save him and his loved ones (and the rest of the bystanders who killed them), he bags himself the most perfect and perfectly matched man in the cultivation world, and he continues to help others and do what he wants to the ire of the cultivation world who are now too embarrassed to fight him. The younger generation look to him as a beloved teacher, protector, and role model to aspire towards.

—Xie Lian rebelled against hierarchy as a beloved prince of a prospering kingdom, then as a beloved god against the older gods, then as a reviled scraps god against the then most popular gods of the present day. He was always willing to lend a hand to anyone who needed it and to never hold resentment even if that kindness blew up in his face (and it often did). He gets to marry the man (ghost) who has seen him at his best and absolute worst and chooses him unconditionally, something no one else has ever done before. At the end of the novel, he is the god that all the other gods look to for guidance and strength.

None of these stories humble these characters for being good people. Even when their morally righteous actions net them unimaginably terrible results, even when they falter in the face of their failures, they ultimately remain true to their goodness. And none of the books humble them for that, because being good is not a character flaw. So in short: please stop talking about how mxtx protags “needed” to learn valuable lessons to “be good people” when they were already good people from the very beginning. These stories are not about how the world changes people but how genuinely good people can change the world just by actively being kind even with no benefit to themselves and especially if that kindness leads to detriment.

[tossawary]

As much as I enjoy "[Character] did nothing wrong" jokes, I really do enjoy the fact that the MXTX main characters and their love interests very much did some wrong things, actually. Like, yeah, some of their horrific crimes or even just mild wrongdoings are down to impossible circumstances and personal damage that was caused by someone else, but they all have agency and guilt and have to deal with the sort of interpersonal conflicts where no one is the winner. It is so, SO humanizing to have them be imperfect and rude and petty and selfish sometimes! They have hurt people unintentionally and intentionally! It makes their good qualities and efforts to improve shine all the brighter!

And also, I really love it as an aspect of queer romances specifically. If Wei Wuxian or Shen Qingqiu or Xie Lian had never done anything wrong in their lives, then the fact that they fall in love with men might carry an unintentional "look at these poor, innocent gay people who are being mistreated for no reason" message, which could carry the unintentional suggestion that queerness can be "earned" with good behavior. No, these characters have fucked up and have fucked up BADLY. There are such fascinating themes in these books about loving people who are seen as monsters or have done monstrous things, about having done unforgivable things yourself, about questioning what exactly is "sinful" and what you do with your life after your good reputation in "good society" has been utterly ruined.

This also brings up themes about "deserving". None of the characters are loved because they necessarily "deserve" to be loved, but because someone chose to love them. They get happy endings not because they "deserve" them - lots of characters in these stories "deserved" better and died anyway - but because they fought for them and were lucky. And I personally find that more interesting and touching than "[Character] did nothing wrong".

Keep the "[Character] did nothing wrong" jokes coming, though. They're often very funny. I especially love it when they're about characters who very obviously did many things wrong on purpose and aren't sorry about it in the slightest.

[bloopitynoot]

Reading SVSSS: Chapter 1

For those who don't know, I am reading SVSSS for the first time and sharing my thoughts!

If you have not read it, there will be spoilers! Consider this a warning.

Also- if you want to follow along, I am aiming to post updates daily. You can find all the posts in the tag bloopitynoot reads SVSSS. You can also check out the intro post for context on my read.

Chapter 1: Scum

two seconds in an i'm already intrigued by the "anti-anti" dynamic. We have an anti-hero Luo Binghe and the "anti" fan Shen Yuan. p.9

honestly we live for a king like Shen Yuan though - bless those fans who make concise summaries in the epic fandoms. p.9

Fucking hell Luo Binghe :( p.10

Side note unrelated to the plot of this- the amount of page flips I have done to hit that guide at the back these first couple pages; outrageous.

in relation to point "Fucking hell luo binghe :(" even his teacher is Bullshit. p.10

ENDLESS ABYSS?! p 11

okay, but listen, is it truly the dark path if he's part demon? like isn't that the correct path for him? p.13

to clarify the previous point- I was rooting for him until he "began to eradicate each one of the human realm's great righteous sects" p.12

like okay, those who wronged him, totally fine- but everyone though?

crying at this authors name LOL p.12

I get it Shen Yuan- big same. I'd be pissed too (re: dying at the end of the shitty book) p.13

the RAGE of his dying breath oh no ahahahaha p.13

Shen Yuan has trained his entire life for this moment (re: transmigration) p.16

oh god "please ensure that no score falls below zero, or the system will automatically mete out punishment" p17

Well damn. I wouldn't want that either (re Shen Qingqiu's fate) p.19

this point system is WILD. Poor guy dies if he fails, jesus p.20

honestly same, if I was transmigrated into the body of a martial magic man, I would be checking out my new body too p. 23

YES. POINTS FOR PLOTHOLE RESOLITIONS!! p. 24

Shen Yuan/Shen Qingqiu: ERROR 404 p 26

okay thoughts: this is such a crazy role to navigate. he knows what's theoretically going to happen but he has to change the plot WITHOUT breaking character p.29

RE: ERROR 404. Super gross that he was having these thoughts about a CHILD. I did not know Luo Binghe IS FOURTEEN at this point. :( p.30

omg. he's (shen yuan/shen qingqiu) also over here talking about finding a girlfriend LOL p31.

i'm crying XD "Holy Shit" p.33

at least Shen Yuan is aware that Shen Qingqiu is NASTY. p.35

Ming Fan is vile too- SO rude. p.38

oh no, im nervous for Luo Binghe (re- his necklace and Ming Fan's squad) p. 40

okay but honestly he deserves it. He (shen yuan/shen qingqiu) just got points removed for the leaf thing and now he's over here doing it again. p.46

the SASS he (Shen yuan) is giving this system p.50

oh jeeze the fact that Shen Yuan/Shen Qingqiu is unlocking new content is STRESS. p55. Like he is barely surviving the plot, it's been like 10 minutes, and he's over here unlocking a side quest already

finding a loophole to help Luo Binghe- I love it! p59.

This concludes my first chapter!!! Hopefully I have a new chapter tomorrow

[sweetsmalldog]

SVSSS Liveblog Volume 1 Chapter 1

Before I start: this cover art is so pretty I love it

Is this whole opening a PSA on not abusing children or they’ll become Stallion Protagonists?

… Yes yes it is apparently

‘“Dumbfuck author Dumbfuck book” With his dying breath Shen Yuan spat this final curse’ Local man hated so hard he died

Bro why are you shocked the web novel writing by Mr. Masturbation was filled with smut and not very well written? You didn’t half to start it. You could’ve simply not been a hater. You could’ve simply touched grass.

Actually I think it makes sense that people still need to eat and sleep. Have you considered that sleep is nice and eating good food is good? Maybe the body still wants food even if it can’t eat it? Also what if your cultivation fails and you haven’t been eating or sleeping? Do you just suddenly die of starvation? Ever think of that Shen Yuan?

Once again your reading a web novel by Mr. Masturbation why are you surprised it’s bad?

The System immediately had enough of his hater vibe and told him to stfu

More pretty art let’s goooooooo

RIP my hater king you are the titular Scum Villain I mean it’s in the title to be fair

“Second: from now on, cling madly to the male lead’s thighs” The closet is made of glass

This man just got told he’s required to be a child abuser until he can unlock not having to act like an asshole 24/7 mode

And the last this that dude did was torture the protagonist oof

He is pretty that is your only saving grace until you unlock no more child abuse to your future murderer mode dude embrace that bit at least

“He still couldn’t compare to Luo Binghe” Once again the closet is made of glass

Even the system thinks the plot is shit

Even more pretty art!!!!

Smart way to give Binghe the medicine ngl

Man is already like “I’m fucked” and honestly fair

“It’s not like I don’t want to cling the the male lead’s thighs” the closet is open at this point

I too would just want to flee in disgrace

Local man just watching children bully other children because if he doesn’t join in on bullying said child he’ll literally die despite not wanting to be a child abuser

And he intervened valid and fair but he is fucking himself over but +10 morals for ever ten points he lost

‘Let me just grab the protagonist’s prized possession real quick’ -Shen Qingqiu

I mean fair enough get those points back

Man is on his way to unlocking not being a child abuser lets gooooo

Local man is hot, he’s being forced to be a horrible asshole by Google Translate God but he is hot

Fun Fact: If a torturer is particularly skilled a person won’t die of blood loss when being flayed hypothermia would usually be what did them in that case not relevant at all but idc

Love him outsmarting the system take that you Google Translate ass

This man sound so hot despite being shitty why is everyone saying he’s not? Look at the cover art!! That’s a hot man

LOOK AT THE GOOD ART HE LOOKS HOT!!!!

Local man banned from smiling rip

[verycharismaticdragon]

Okay, so I went a lil overboard with a reply to LBH criticism over at @controversial-blorbo-bracket, and I figure 4.5K words that probably should be put under a community label are a bit too much for a reblog, so I'm posting it separately.

CW for general discussion of sex, and for rape mention (assumption of rape is discussed and rebutted).

------

You know what, I was going to reply to this the usual way, you know, 'oh look at that, another person with surface level reading who hates binghe!' because fr every single binghe disliker has the same talking points - which, you know, individually were long discussed (and disproved) by ppl in fandom - but then I was suddenly hit with a spoon beam so now I'm writing a long-ass answer.

Starting with the most glaring, this sentence:

Their dynamic ended up coming off more as SQQ tolerating this unmanageable man-baby and letting him fuck (and hurt him in the process, and then cry about that, more than SQQ himself did) him just to get him to shut the fuck up sometimes, like giving a toddler a biscuit to appease them.

has clued me in to the largest thing anon has missed. Remember how I said "surface-level reading"? Let me explain. There are great many avenues for analyzing a book, especially one as crunchy on a meta-level as svsss (you'll see what I mean by that later).

But the most basic thing - the LVL1 if you will - is asking yourself the following questions: (1) whose POV is the book written from? (2) is that POV omniscient or limited? (2.1) are there cases where the POV character doesn't know something we, the reader, have inferred? (3) if it's limited, how reliable is their narration? (3.1) are there cases of their actions not aligning with their narration? (3.2) are there reasons for them to lie to themselves and/or the reader?

For SVSSS, the answers are: (1) mostly Shen Qingqiu's POV; (2) limited; (2.1) e.g. he doesn't know what's going on in Luo Binghe's head (we'll get back to this more in-depth later), most notably not realizing Luo Binghe is in love with him for good 2/3rds of the book; (3) unreliable; (3.1) think him insisting he is fine when he's clearly grieving post-Abyss - which we can see both from other characters' reactions, and from stray thoughts that he himself has and then dismisses (eng.edition chapter 4: "No! Bah! Shen Qingqiu mentally slapped himself. Who are you calling a grieving widow?! Whose husband died?! That's not something you should just say--you're really getting worse by the day.") (3.2) off the top of my head: the trauma SQQ is going through, with his two coping mechanisms being 'not thinking about it' and 'making light of the situation'; internalized toxic masculinity - as in, the idea that it's shameful for a man to have emotions; internalized homophobia - as in, being unable to examine his attraction to men (evident from very early on, actually) without having a knee-jerk 'it's wrong!' reaction.

To sum it up: Shen Qingqiu's POV is limited and his narration is unreliable. What does this tell us? That we should take what he says in the narrative voice with the grain (or like, a spoonful) of salt, and that it's worth to close-read him. Don't just believe him when he says something; look for evidence!

Going back to anon's words, saying that SQQ appears to just 'tolerate' Luo Binghe tells me that you have not caught SQQ's lies at all.

(cont. under cut)

SQQ is, pardon my language, fucking obsessed with Luo Binghe - just in a different way than Luo Binghe is with him. He is constantly thinking about Luo Binghe even when the latter is not around! (Contrast it to how he thinks about his family from his og world like, 3 times over the course of the book, despite loving them.) And when LBH is around, SQQ can't go a page without mentioning how incredibly beautiful he is! (And then blames it on Luo Binghe being a protagonist, like, of course the protagonist is the most beautiful person in the world, that's natural!.. We later get the POV of a literal author of the world, btw, and he says he wrote LBH as a conventionally beautiful prettyboy type, and his own ideal man is completely different. Which is how we know that SQQ going on about LBH's radiant showstopping obvious-to-anyone beauty is really only his own opinion that he's trying to sell to us as a universal truth.)

And, speaking of LBH's crimes anon mentions (I will not be calling them 'warcrimes', sorry, none of the very few less-than-moral things he does can be classified as that) - you may notice that, for both actual things LBH did and for things SQQ attributed to him mistakenly, those never changed the way SQQ feels about Binghe. He thinks LBH killed his kinda-friend and still jumps in to sacrifice himself to save LBH's life. He sees the guy LBH mutilated, and is disturbed by that... but still continues to protect LBH. Gives him a lil forehead kiss like 20 minutes later.

Oh, and let's not forget the scene where SQQ is punished with a hyper-realistic dream of original LBH tearing off his limbs, and his reaction to that is "I need to see my Binghe asap immediately like rn, I need my cute version of Binghe to feel better about this."

This all is to point out that SQQ continuously fails to be normal about LBH. That's a feature! That's what makes their relationship fun! "Clearly you are perfect for each other pls dont involve anyone else in whatever the fuck is wrong with you" kinda situation.

But you must look through the cover of SQQ's misdirections for it - like again, trauma! toxic masculinity! internalized homophobia! It's difficult for him to admit his feelings even in his head, but he is getting better about that. In Mei vs Ge extra, SQQ admits he wanted LBH to push a little more about them sharing a bed and that he would have agreed. And is kinda put out that LBH simply accepted his refusal. Then in Deep Dream extra, SQQ is literally the one to jump LBH. And in Wedding extra, he almost manages to look directly at the fact that he's very happy that LBH is proposing to him! So yeah, he is getting better at admitting it too. But honestly, his feelings about LBH were always really intense. In different ways over the course of the novel, but he adored LBH from before he transmigrated, and that adoration never lessened, despite everything that happened between them. You just gotta look at his actions and not his 24/7 mental stand-up routine.

All right, next, in the same paragraph the previous thing came from, I'll abridge and highlight for relevancy:

Their dynamic ended up coming off more as SQQ tolerating this unmanageable man-baby and letting him fuck [...] him just to get him to shut the fuck up sometimes, like giving a toddler a biscuit to appease them. And it came off very gross, especially in the epilogue, when Luo Binghe was blatantly manipulative about that, pushing and cornering Shen Qingqiu into doing more than he already was, and using his tears to his advantage, in a way that was clearly in the text not unintentional.

...Listen, for someone claiming to hate how one-dimensional LBH ended up, I'm seeing a distinct lack of effort at actually understanding the character. Luo Binghe's teary act (in the moments when it is an act, because there are also many moments when his tears are genuine, we'll get to that later) is, first and foremost, for Shen Qingqiu's benefit.

Shen Qingqiu admits it himself that he finds it easier to be "frank" with Luo Binghe who is "willing to cling to his legs and throw a tantrum to seek comfort" (Return to Childhood extra). It's the internalized toxic masculinity and homophobia thing again. It's actually pretty interesting how he rewires his brain from its knee-jerk reaction of "homosexuality wrong" by mentally comparing Luo Binghe to a girl - like calling him Bing-mei, thinking he's acting "like a lovesick maiden", etc. God I want to study this man like a bug. Anyway, yeah, the point is that LBH acting cute and whiny helps SQQ be more comfortable with giving affection to a man, something that he struggles with because of his personal issues.

And Luo Binghe, while not aware of the exact nature of SQQ's issues (having grown up in a world where homophobia doesn't seem to exist), does understand this - that Shen Qingqiu’s thin face and pride make it difficult for him to show emotions. And it's not something LBH intrinsically knows either; he has to figure it out (not without help, everybody say thank you papa Airplane), confirm it for himself (the "But other than hearing Shizun crying..." - "Who was crying?" - "Other than hearing someone crying, [...]" scene comes to mind), and then accept it as truth (which he doesn't seem to fully do until at least the Maigu Ridge, and Shen Qingqiu outright saying "I do it for you and only you!" - if not even later.) It takes him time to learn how to work with this knowledge too...

And, to be brutally honest, how blatant and over the top he gets with the act is entirely due to how SQQ keeps rewarding the behavior.

Now... you might consider this a conjecture, given how we only get the tiniest glimpses into Luo Binghe's mind - in the rare moments the author shifts out of the primary POV. But fortunately, one of those moments can be used to prove that Luo Binghe is not, in fact, "pushing and cornering" Shen Qingqiu into doing things Shen Qingqiu doesn't want to do.

The moment I'm talking about is in the Mei vs Ge extra: Shen Qingqiu, having agreed to "do some exploring together", sees LBH's giant 🐓, goes "absolutely not" out loud, and attempts to give him a handjob instead — which also doesn't go too well. Bringing us to (LBH's POV emphasized):

No matter how calm Shen Qingqiu kept himself, he couldn’t stop his expression from twisting. Luo Binghe had secretly been paying attention to his face the entire time. At this moment, he carefully said, “Then, Shizun, how about… you do it?”

LBH is attentively watching SQQ's reactions to figure out what he's thinking and feeling. The moment Binghe comes to the conclusion that SQQ is uncomfortable with bottoming, he offers to let him top. Notice how he doesn't start crying or whining to get his way, when it's something that might be a genuine hard line for SQQ?

And it's actually the same in the Regret of Chunshan extra: when SQQ shot LBH's idea down, LBH "looked a bit disappointed, but didn't push the issue". Yes, later SQQ will say LBH was "putting on a pitiful act"; but if you read the scene carefully, LBH did not do anything but look a bit disappointed - and SQQ just walked himself into feeling bad about refusing completely on his own.

Now, when does Luo Binghe use crocodile tears then? Well, the answer seems to be: when it's about small things. Like wanting to do it face to face (after they've already agreed on both sex in general and on who will top), or begging SQQ to call him 'husband' (after they have gotten married). Ultimately inconsequential things, and, likely, things that he suspects SQQ is avoiding only because of embarrassment and not anything more serious.

So, to sum up this section: Luo Binghe's crybaby act is for Shen Qingqiu's peace of mind first and foremost, and Luo Binghe does not actually use it to coerce Shen Qingqiu into anything he wouldn't be willing to do. LBH is not responsible for the fact that Shen Qingqiu has no bottom line when it comes to him and can't handle seeing him even minorly disappointed, let's be real.

Okay, last thing from that paragraph (yes there's another thing):

and letting him fuck (and hurt him in the process, and then cry about that, more than SQQ himself did)

See, with the way anon describes it here, I can't even tell which scene this references, but luckily I have a rebuttal for both options.

Like, is this about the Maigu Ridge? Aka the scene where LBH is not in his right mind (literally hallucinating, among other things) - and then comes back to consciousness to see that he, by all appearances, had brutally raped the person he loves with all his heart? No fucking wonder he starts crying?!.. And to clarify, he did not rape SQQ, because SQQ had given informed consent here. If anything, there was nobody in that scene less consenting than Luo Binghe himself.

Or is this about the scene in Mei vs Ge. Which is like. Entirely on SQQ, who decided to keep quiet instead of telling LBH that it hurts. Like, whatever that was about! It's only, oh, one of the major themes of the novel that hiding your feelings and struggles is bad, and will hurt not only you but people who care about you.

...Btw, if someone not in fandom is reading this with increased befuddlement for why those two are having so much painful sex. Well, aside from the scene where LBH is tripping balls because of a cursed sword, and the situation is forced by the literal will of the narrative (more on this later), our couple are two adult virgins with no sex-ed, and one of them is in possession of (canonically) the biggest dick in the world. Given those factors, it would be weirder if they were able to have flawless sex right away. (And it's a meta-commentary, something we'll also get to later.)

Speaking of the cursed sword, it's somewhat amazing that anon says all this

Why did they make him become this? I understand what he went through, I'm not asking about cause and effect, I'm saying the effect could have been so much better and more realistically (in my opinion and from my personal experience with trauma) written. I'm not saying he couldn't be burnt or bitter or jaded, nor that he couldn't be clingy or overly emotional or manipulative, I just think it could have been done better, and I HATE what his character became for the second half (realistically, most) of the story.

and completely fails to mention that between LBH's return from the Abyss and the end of the main story, LBH's actions are severely affected by a cursed sword that amps up his emotions with the express purpose of destroying his mind. Seems somewhat relevant to why his behavior isn't written as a realistic trauma response? And instead as a trauma response amped up to eleven and set on fire? And that's without even getting into LBH giving himself supernatural brain damage as a form of self-harm. Which uh. doesnt simply map onto any irl concept really.

Continuing from this, I think it's time for me to expand on one of the points from earlier: about how Shen Qingqiu doesn't know what's going on in Luo Binghe's head for most of the novel. It will be tied to this particular bit of criticism on anon's part:

I feel like the author utterly assassinated his character in the 2nd half of the novel (ever since he came back from the abyss) and turned him into a one dimensional caricature of himself, and I HATED IT.

What I want to suggest here is tied, once again, to how Shen Qingqiu’s POV is limited and unreliable. So, a new batch of questions: (4) is our understanding of other characters' actions affected by the limited POV? (5) is there a particular reason for the author to keep other characters' motivations opaque to the POV character? (6) can anything be gleaned by reconstructing other characters' perspectives?

The answer to (4) is a yes so resounding the POV character himself admits it: "First, he'd thought Luo Binghe was unbelievably cruel and evil, then he'd thought Luo Binghe was unspeakably strong and bright." (ch.21) Shen Qingqiu has the very same problem as anon does: he sees Luo Binghe as one-dimensional, making assumptions about how he's supposed to act - instead of trying to understand what's there.

Which leads us neatly into the answer to (5): people making assumptions about what's best for the other person instead of asking them what they need, and hurting them as a result, is also a major theme, present in many relationships throughout the novel! And that's only half of the answer.

The other half will require us to go a little meta. You see, BingQiu's relationship, among other things, are meant to echo the relationship between the reader and the character. The reader loves the character, but they are also the reason for their suffering - as for the story to go on, the character must continuously face more and more difficult obstacles. Shen Qingqiu both loving Luo Binghe and causing him unspeakable amount of trauma is meant to mirror that. Shen Qingqiu's expectations for how Luo Binghe should act, and attempts to fit him into one or the other archetype, are also, yknow, reader behavior.

And... are we not also readers? Are we not expecting Luo Binghe to act a certain way (for example, when I first read the novel, I fully expected him to keep being a classic ML: to swallow all his grievances and keep being unquestioningly and ardently devoted to MC. Which, once articulated, is such an unfair expectation!), and feel it's "character assassination" - to borrow anon's words - when he does not adhere to the role he's supposed to inhabit, based on our idea of his personality and place in the story?

So: is there a reason the author seems to deliberately make Luo Binghe hard to understand, irrational, or one-note, to both Shen Qingqiu and us? Making it harder to sympathize with him? For example, can it be commentary on oversimplifying complex characters to just their role, or just one aspect of their personality...

As for the answer to (6), I ultimately want to leave it for you to try it out and decide. I'm literally the person who wrote a 90k character study fic to try and figure out the minutiae of Luo Binghe's post-Abyss mental state, so my answer is I think obvious. He has a lot going on!

Which kind of brings me to another of anon's gripes:

And actually that made me really sad because I wanted to enjoy it so much, because I LOVED the beginning, and I love Shen Qingqiu, but the evolution of Luo Binghe and the refusal to let him KEEP evolving inescapably ruined the story for me. He was insufferable, and I kept hoping he would grow and get better, but he just never did.

Look, I simply cannot agree that Luo Binghe did not grow and get better; it just largely happens at the very end of the main story and in the extras. I know anon has missed that, since they missed the more obvious things like Shen Qingqiu being obsessed with Binghe right back and Binghe using the pathetic act to help Shen Qingqiu feel more at ease, so I'll get to that in a bit. But first, I want to make sure we are on the same page about everything before that.

The part of Luo Binghe's arc between the Abyss and the Maigu Ridge is a downward spiral. He's going through the corruption arc, just as the original version of him did; the narrative demands it.

And it's not like 'the narrative' is a nebulous force here; there are literal actors of its will in the story, the System and Xin Mo sword. Like, in particular, the Maigu Ridge sex scene is a perfect example of how those two actors push Luo Binghe and Shen Qingqiu. The System literally withholds a key item that can help Luo Binghe regain his conscious mind until Shen Qingqiu has sex with him - you know, until the demands of the narrative of a romance story are fulfilled. And Xin Mo literally corrodes Luo Binghe's mind so that he acts like the original version from PIDW, because the truth is, SVSSS Luo Binghe would rather die than actually force himself on Shen Qingqiu. (Binghe's first reaction to seeing what he'd done is to ask "Why didn't you kill me?" and like. understandable. im crying also)

Oh, right, I promised to explain how bad sex is meta, this is a good spot for that. You see, it's a commentary on the 'flawless first time' trope, and also 'sex is a cure' trope. The author posits that two virgins having sex would naturally be awkward and not magically good. And that having sex in a highly stressful situation where one of the parties is not in control of their faculties would naturally be really fucking bad, and also not magically good.

But back to narrative demands. The point is, Luo Binghe simply cannot get better until "the story" ends. He can't heal while the world around him is literally deadset on dragging him down to become a bloodthirsty, sex-obsessed tyrant. The only thing that saves him is Shen Qingqiu managing to get them into the happily ever after zone by the skin of his teeth. There's a reason the main story of the book ends with: "The story circulating through the world might already have ended. But the story between you and me has only just began". 'The story circulating through the world' is the narrative the characters were trapped in; only once it has ended can Shen Qingqiu and Luo Binghe be allowed to go free, to actually live their lives and be happy. (This novel is very meta, I'm telling you.)

All right, now, back to how Luo Binghe actually did grow and get better! We're almost to the end! I fear to see how long this post is, at this point!

Now, I could be pointing out specific details, like Luo Binghe letting SQQ be brought back to Cang Qiong because he thinks that's what SQQ would want - when his whole breakdown before was about how he couldn't keep SQQ with him. Or I could be reminding you of the second section of this post, and saying that Luo Binghe learning to bypass SQQ's embarrassment by playing cute is actually also character development, even if you didn't like it.

But I think we should go for the heart of the issue. You see, yet another prominent theme in SVSSS is toxic masculinity. It's baked into the setting, with the "original" book our MC transmigrated into being a heterostraight harem novel; it's something our MC struggles with, when his learned toxic behaviors screw over both himself and the person he loves; and - most important to our current topic - it's the chief source of tension within Luo Binghe's character.

Literally, there are even names for two polar axes of his personality in the story: Bing-ge (ge=big brother), coined by in-story fandom to describe original Luo Binghe of PIDW, and Bing-mei (mei=little sister), the nickname SQQ comes up with specifically for "lovesick maiden"-acting Binghe.

"Bing-ge" side, of course, represents toxic masculinity. Extremely obviously in OG!LBH's case, what with him being the protagonist of 'male wish fulfillment and misogyny: the novel', but if you think about it, SV!LBH also demonstrates toxic masc behaviors, starting post-Abyss and up to Maigu Ridge. Noticeably, exactly when he had Xin Mo fucking him up - Xin Mo in general is symbolic of the "original" narrative, pushing SV!LBH to replicate the OG's behavior. And also it's a sword. The symbol of toxic masc version of the narrative is. A sword. RIP Freud you would've loved Scum Villain.

But what does "Bing-mei" stand for, if we detangle it from SQQ's 5D chess with his own sexuality? We know Bing-mei cooks and cleans and gives waist massages. We also know Bing-mei shows affection freely, and isn't embarrassed to cry, and has a sensitive heart. A man who is caring instead of controlling, a man who is not afraid to be vulnerable and emotional... Bing-mei side is meant to represent the healthy / soft masculinity.

And Luo Binghe's arc is rooted in the struggle between healthy and toxic sides of masculinity. What I think is tripping up a lot of people is that he starts at the healthy place, in his "white lotus" days. He is caring, he is affectionate, he shows the full range of emotion.

Then, the world comes for him, and he falls (or, yknow, is pushed) into toxic patterns of behavior. He hides his vulnerability, the only show of emotion he allows himself are outbursts of anger, he tries to control the person he loves... and thus hurts people around him and himself. His breakdown at Maigu Ridge is about thinking he can never be good enough, no matter what he does - see, the very idea that there's some level of achievement that can make a person unequivocally lovable is a toxic masc mindset!..

But the thing is, him breaking down here - admitting that he can't "win", showing the messy, undesirable, emotional side of himself - demonstrating that he can't be the Bing-ge version - is what opens up a path for him to communicate with Shen Qingqiu. Giving him the genuine connection he needed, that Bing-ge could never have. And thus allowing him to destroy the toxic-masculinity-representing sword.

So, the evolution path the author charts out for Luo Binghe from there on is him growing into the healthy masculinity patterns. Starting with, again, putting caring about his partner above controlling him and letting SQQ be brought back to Cang Qiong. Which SQQ didn't actually want, but we've already covered that he's his own kind of freak(affectionate). And continuing to try to do better by SQQ and listen to him (eg the whole SQQ refusing to share a bed and LBH acceding so easily SQQ was left reeling, because he was planning to agree once LBH pushed). And learning that he can show emotion and be validated for it (see Return to Childhood extra with its "if you are unhappy, say so"). And accepting that he doesn't need to be perfect to be loved (the guy faceplanted trying to propose and still got his man...). And, hell - count 'doing his best to learn how to pleasure his partner in bed' with this as well!

So, once again, as a closing note: I simply can't agree that Luo Binghe doesn't grow and evolve. You just have to let go of your preconceived notions of what his character should be like, and learn to see, understand, and appreciate what's there. The same arc Shen Qingqiu, his most faithful reader, goes through.

For a book as meta as SVSSS, that's obviously no coincidence.

[dannnnnny666]

Day 10: Mausoleum

I didn't really know what to do with mausoleum, the first time I think I actually heard about it was in a book I read recently. So I decided since I have no other ideas, crossover time! This is for me more then anyone.

TW: This contains some spoiler from Scum Villain Self-Saving System's 2 vol, if you have not finished it and decided to read it anyways, don't cry to me when I spoil one of the funnest characters.

When Danny awoke he was in a coffin. Which was relatively weird since he fell asleep in his bed.

Did someone think he died? Did they bury him? Why hadn’t Sam and Tucker stopped them?

Danny needed answers, so he quickly went intangible before rising 6ft off of his coffin and out of the ground to find… he was in mid air. He looked down and saw that instead of being underground, his coffin was on a pedestal of sorts.

Danny floated back to the ground and took a look around his surroundings. The room was dark but it looked like he was in a dungeon. Seeing as there was a coffin in it, a lot of precious items, like gold, silver, and gemstones, and that the walls were covered in a mural of some tough looking dude, Danny surmised he was in a mausoleum. 

Since it didn’t seem to be his, he decided to leave this room and try to look for an exit. As he stepped out of the room, a weird candle turned on and emitted a low dark green glow. It didn’t seem to have any mechanism that would turn it on but something about it seemed strangely magical.

As Danny continued to observe the candles, thinking to himself which of his enemies would do this to him, he heard weird groaning noises. Looking past the candle into the hallway before him, Danny was a horde of what looked like zombies approaching him. 

On instinct, he shifted into his ghost form to prepare for a fight. But as soon as he did, the candle next to him went out, and the horde stopped approaching, and began to just mill around.

Confused about the what just happened but also wanting the get the fuck out of there, Danny ripped the candle of the wall and began to fly over the zombies as he tried to find an exit. As he flew through the twists and turns of the mausoleum, which was starting to feel more like a labyrinth, Danny noticed a small light down one hallway.

Since the candles only lit up over certain circumstances, which Danny was theorizing to only light up if someone living was around, he sped over to the source.

Once he arrived, Danny realized it wasn’t another candle but light seeping through the crevices of a door. Even though he was a bit nervous about why someone might be down here, he was getting really scared being all by himself, so he shifted back into a human and took a deep breath before walking into the room.

Surprisingly, it was empty.

The only inhabitant seemed to be a green snake, which quickly slithered behind the coffin in the center of the room. Like the one Danny woke up in, this room was filled with precious items, a huge mural, and a coffin at the center. The only differences were that the theme of the items and decoration was different then the previous, which made sense since it was for a different person, and that there were torches lighting every inch of the room.

As Danny continued to look around the room in confusion, the coffin in the center suddenly began to open.

Slowly and slowly, it was opened by an invisible force, leaving Danny transfixed to the spot, horrified of what would come out.

Finally, the thing in the coffin sat up and began to speak,

“Immortal Master Shen Qingqiu, how lovely is it to see you-”

The thing, more specifically a handsome older dude in some kind of traditional asian dress (Danny should have paid more attention in history), looked over at him before a surprised look apearch across his face and he cut himself off.

“Umm… who are you?” “BITCH, WHO ARE YOU?!?!”

Explanation for not SVSSS fans: The candles are called Last Breath Candle and are fueled by someones breath. The light brings the Blind corpses, which attacks any intruders when th lights are on.

[piosplayhouse]

I don't have the capacity to read this whole article but I just discovered that for some reason it talks about CUM VILLAIN?!2?!)$! WHY DBWKDNK???

I'm just so baffled on why a. They chose scum villain when we're like . A single droplet in the fandom ocean. We have a fraction of a fraction of the influence of literally our next door most adjacent fandoms. The vast majority of people here are also fully grown adults with academic experience . This is not their first rodeo

b. SHEN JIU??? the guy who . NEVER is in a position to talk directly to the viewer because he fucking DIES BEFORE THE STORY STARTS???? This is especially funny to me because I'm not sure if they read the books at all but they mention Shen Yuan... You know ... Shen Jiu's biggest anti?? The guy who narrates the entire story and hates shen jiu's guts???? The one who is so explicitly clear on how much he hates the guy's child abuse that he literally rewrites a whole universe ??? That's the main plot?! Does. Does the author know that the Shen Qingqiu of scum villain's main story is quite literally an entirely different person than the "scum villain" Shen Qingqiu. This is. This is part of the main summary . You can't miss this. Shen Qingqiu is only ever portrayed as the hero because the one we follow is Shen Yuan.. Shen Jiu is most certainly not. How do you turn "this character had a sympathetic backstory literally 80% into the main story that was only fully elaborated on in the completely optional extras" into the audience eats up his child abuse ?!3)2;

c. WHY SCUM VILLAIN?? like .. the book that specifically forces its readers to think critically by blurring the lines between "villain" and "protagonist", doing everything it can to push people out of their surface level character analysis comfort zone that marks "protag" as "good" and "antag" as "bad"..? That to assign cookie cutter roles to complex characters is reductive and shows an arrogance that can lead you to completely misinterpreting a text?? Did you just pick it because it has villain in the title ?!)3 low hanging fruit???

Idk I didn't read the whole thing so maybe I'm wrong but I just saw this on the tl and thought it was baffling 😭 like why are we always misrepresented in journalism haven't we suffered enough after not having any official content for literally one of the main side characters for 7 entire years LMFAOO

[best-yandere-tournament]

Bingqui: theyre soooooo <3 - shen qingqiu gets so mad over a shitty book that he dies and transmigrates into it as the antagonist. he decides to be nice to the protagonist (luo binghe) so that he doesnt get his arms and legs chopped off and his body stuffed into a jar. as a result luo binghe falls in love with him. - shen qingqiu literally Does Not See any of the characters as people, he sees them as characters in the book. Including binghe. Hes always like "aghhhhh my favourite little white lotus <3 the protagonist <3 my blorbo <3" like binghe is straight up Not a person to him - an evil computer controlling shen qingqiu's actions forces him to push luo binghe off a cliff into the abyss to experience Horrible Trauma. at no point does binghe learn that shen qingqiu was forced to do this, he simply chooses to Get Over It. - shen qingqiu is luo binghe's teacher, so you would think that that's the core of the unequal power dynamic, right ? WRONG. - luo binghe is a super OP demon lord with unimaginble power. He has the protagonist halo and literally cannot lose. also he gives shen qingqiu a blood parasite std so he can literally control him and shit. you would think that THAT's the core of the unequal power dynamic then, right ? ALSO WRONG - luo binghe is so so obsessed with shen qingqui if sqq told him to leave and never come back or smth he would straight up kill himself - literally no one is winning. its an unequal power dynamic no matter how you look at it but NO ONE IS WINNING - shen qingqui dies and luo binghe literally sleeps with his dead body for like five years. - theyre sooooo codependent like their whole relationship is binghe being horribly soppy over shen qingqiu and just generally stalker level obsessed while shen qingqiu pretends to hate it but secretly loves it and absolutely is obsessed with binghe being obsessed with him. - they deserve each other sososo much they make each other worse and they love that <3

Dabi and Hawks: none submitted.

[veilchenjaeger]

(I'm going to talk about non-consensual sex in media below, obviously. Just a head up.)

@stripedroseandsketchpads I’m not super knowledgeable about these tropes either, so I’m definitely not the right person to do a detailed analysis of the trope subversions here (or trope subversions in Scum Villain in general). I don’t read a lot of danmei, though I do have a background in old 2010s BL manga, and a lot of tropes do seem familiar to me. I have looked at a few stallion novels, but those are so incredibly misogynistic that they’re impossible for me, a person without access to copious amounts of alcohol, to read without taking permanent damage. But like… What bothers me about the Maigu Ridge takes I see isn't a lack of understanding of the trope subversions (which I don't fully understand either) but how many people miss the basics of what's happening in this scene? I don't think it's necessary to do, like, a close analysis of the text to recognise that Maigu Ridge is not supposed to be sexy?? Maybe I'm wrong and it is hard to tell, but?

I am genuinely baffled by the amount of misinterpretations I see about Maigu Ridge mostly bc I don't think it’s subtle about what it is! I, too, think that MXTX's sexy scenes are sort of odd and not very sexy [Edit: @stripedroseandsketchpads pointed out that this is likely a translation bias, and I agree 100%], but the difference between e.g. the wine enema extra and Maigu Ridge is blatant? Shen Qingqiu is in so much fucking pain at Maigu Ridge that he can barely think! He's hurting in the other sex scenes, too, but not nearly as much, and the tone of those is light-hearted and Shen Qingqiu's narration is funny. There's nothing funny about Maigu Ridge! Shen Qingqiu doesn't very nearly black out from pain in the You Understand extra, because that one's supposed to be cute and awkward and not absolutely horrifying!

And even if we ignore the actual sex (I hesitate to use the term!), the entire way Maigu Ridge is framed makes it obvious that this is very much intended to be read as a traumatic event. First of all, they stop. It’s so important to me that they stop. It would have been so easy to transition into a good, pleasurable sex scene as soon as they're both able to consent, but it doesn't. They stop the second Luo Binghe comes to, because none of what just happened was arousing or made them want to continue having sex. This shouldn't be special, but it is, because this is a romance novel and romance novels don’t do bad sex, but I’ll get into the trope subversion later.

More stuff about the way Maigu Ridge is framed: My favourite thing about it is not the sex scene itself or the build-up to it - I'm not that hardcore - but the conversation they have afterwards, after Luo Binghe regains consciousness. They stop having sex, and they immediately start taking care of each other. This is a scene where they just went through a very traumatic thing together, and they support each other in the aftermath. This is one of the ultimate Bingqiu conversations for me, which cemented my love for them and imo proves how much they care about each other.

Within that conversation, it becomes obvious how shaken Luo Binghe is by what happened. He fucking asks why Shen Qingqiu didn't kill him instead of letting him do this! It's. Just. It's so much. It shows how horrified Luo Binghe is by what "he" (in quotation marks bc he wasn't conscious) just did. He's hurt Shen Qingqiu a lot in this book, in various ways, but here, we see him break down after doing so and pretty much say outright that he'd rather have died. Bingy.

There’s also the fact that Shen Qingqiu tries to calm him down by pointing out that he "was willing". No you weren't, king, but I appreciate you reassuring Luo Binghe that he didn't just outright rape you. It's such a weak reassurance in this moment, when Shen Qingqiu is literally dying, but it still means the world. Everything is so horrible, but Shen Qingqiu successfully pinpoints the thing that makes it slightly less horrible.

Later developments support this reading, too! Luo Binghe, Mr Pushy himself, doesn't dare initiate anything sexual for the first weeks of their relationship! Maigu Ridge is the catalyst for him letting Shen Qingqiu go and not being there when he wakes up (despite having waited five years for Shen Qingqiu to wake up before), because he doesn't believe they can come back from this! In the interview extra, Luo Binghe refuses to name Maigu Ridge as their first time, preferring to pretend it never happened! Shen Qingqiu mostly refers to it as a failure, something that’s tragic bc Luo Binghe as a stallion protagonist should have had a better first time, but his tone in those moments of narration is seriously mismatched with his narration during Maigu Ridge, and ignoring his own feelings about the matter completely and re-framing it as a plot point in a novel instead of a real thing that happened to him is precisely how Shen Qingqiu deals with trauma all the time. Maigu Ridge is so obviously written as a traumatic event, so I really cannot understand people who are either mad that the sex scene wasn't hot (It's not meant to be!) or complain about this scene being super problematic and Bingqiu thus being horrible. (This was very intentionally written that way and Bingqiu themselves acknowledge that it was awful!)

And that isn’t even getting into the trope subversion yet. As I said, I’m not super knowledgeable about that, but I read a post recently that pointed out that a lot of danmei tropes are just romance/erotica novel tropes, and… yes. That’s true. What happens a lot in these stories is the “It starts out non-consensual but the main character (the woman in straight romance, lbr) ends up liking it anyways!” trope. Afaik, this is a staple of stallion novel sex, too. I hate this trope with the fire of a thousand burning suns, and when I first read Scum Villain, I was afraid that Maigu Ridge would turn into that. And then it didn’t. Which blew my mind a little, because main couples in romance or erotica novels don’t have bad sex. Bingqiu are an obvious subversion of that bc they suck at sex even if it is consensual, but Maigu Ridge is that subversion times 100. Scum Villain talks a lot about satisfaction points, so let’s think about reader satisfaction here: For this entire novel, we’ve been waiting for Bingqiu to kiss and get together and fuck. And a romance story isn’t always over with the first time, but usually, such a scene is satisfying because it shows them finally coming together after chapters upon chapters of build-up. Usually, it’s good sex. It shows us that the main couple is meant to be together. (Wangxian's first time is a pretty good example of a sex scene that is more of a problem than a solution but is still good.) Apparently, the “Fuck or Die” trope is a lot more prevalent in the genres MXTX is commenting on than in stuff I know about, so that plays into it, too: It’s the kind of scene that’s meant to be satisfying, and Maigu Ridge absolutely fucking isn’t. This book, which is very much a romance novel, looked the “Fuck or Die” trope in the eye, said, “This would fucking suck irl”, and ran with that. And I think that owns.

Non-consensual romantic or sexual actions are a fucking staple of romance media, and while there can obviously be kinky reasons for that, the fact that it's so prevalent is awful imo. The amount of completely innocuous prime time movies targeted at girls and young women that I've seen where straight-up stalking and sexual harrassment are played as a romantic ideal is horrifying. Not to mention that Scum Villain is commentary on stallion novels, too, and the way non-consensual sex is portrayed in those – books targeted at an audience that is meant to identify with the rapist – is terrifying imo. It genuinely scares me that there are men out there who read these books uncritically and buy into that portrayal of women and consent. I could talk a lot about the nuances of this topic (bc it is nuanced), but let’s just say that it's so important to me to see a scene like this portrayed as the horrible, traumatic even it would be in a realistic setting (while still being a scene in a romance novel that doesn’t end the main couple’s relationship). Maigu Ridge is one of the main reasons why I trust MXTX to address and play with consent issues (as she does with Wangxian).

I don’t think that the message of Maigu Ridge is “The Fuck or Die trope/non-consensual sex in romance novels is horrible and shouldn’t happen ever” – MXTX does include a whole parody of super tropey danmei novels full of noncon with Resentment of Chunshan, which is portrayed as silly but harmless, kinky fun – but it invites us to think about these tropes and the implications they have. There’s a lot of nuance here that I appreciate, especially with the distinction made between the Scum Villain plot, which is situated in “reality”, and Resentment of Chunshan, which is very firmly fantasy. I’d love to read an analysis on this by someone who really knows their shit when it comes to danmei, stallion novels, and Chinese media tropes in general (My perspective on this is obviously very Western!) bc this is all I really have to say about this, but like. Bottom line is that it’s fucking baffling to me why Maigu Ridge is so often treated as the Big Problematic Scene of Scum Villain when it’s literally commentary on noncon tropes in media. If anything, this is the single least problematic Bingqiu scene! What the fuck are y’all talking about!

[ineffectualdemon]

Shen Qingqiu died once in a fit of rage and after that decided death was a good solution to his problems.

He died raging so hard he didn’t check the expiration date on his food and got food poisioning and instead of being worried about the fact he was dying he was still raging about the stupid fucking book. 

Sure he technically only faked his death the second time but he did actually physically fucking die, he just was prepared with another body.

And since he woke up in the book that pissed him off so much his dumb brain went “Death fixes problems” and that becomes his go to.

Other people dying upsets him though so he goes out of his way to prevent deaths and dissociates when he does have to deal with that, but his own death? Hunky dory!

If it wasn’t for the fact that he now understands that it upsets Binghe badly, istg this man would pretend to be dead to get out of an awkward conversation. Like full on fake his death again pretend. 

Which is how he differs from Shang Qinghua. 

Because while Shen Qinghua “pretends to be dead” fairly regularly in canon it’s understood by everyone that he’s just laying on the floor and being a coward. He’s playing dead in the way we understand “playing possum” is a thing. 

But in reality he died, probably very painfully from electrocution, and he does everything possible in his new life to avoid death. 

Like in theory the sun and moon dew flower was meant for him as well but there’s no evidence that he actually attempted to use it or ever really meant to. 

And even when given the option to return to the his original world alive he doesn’t trust that the system means that. 

He also didn’t try to fake his death for Mobei Jun.

Yeah he made himself difficult to find but he just moped about waiting for his King to track him down and apologise. But faking his own death or dying were just never really options for him..

But other people’s death don’t bother him. Not because he doesn’t view them as human but because he values his life more. HIs, Mobei Jun’s and later Cucumber’s lives become priority. Other people’s deaths are very much a them problem. 

and I just find that difference between them really intriguing. 

Shang Qinghua is cautious to the point of severe cowardice and Shen Qingqiu is reckless to the point of callousness. 

It’s how the trauma of their original death played out so differently. 

Shen Qingqiu seems to feel deep down that dying won’t ever really “take” that he’ll always get another chance in some form.

Shang Qinghua is desperately afraid of death, more so than in the original world probably based on how PIDW was written (I don’t think Bingge fears death and he is a twisted version of Airplane) 

He’s so afraid that he will do almost anything to avoid it. 

And maybe that’s because while dying of food poisoning is painful and unpleasant at least Cucumber had the headspace to be more mad at the book he read then he was at dying. 

But Airplane died of electrocution, which was fast but extremely traumatic and that’s a trauma he can’t shake. 

The affect death can have on a person in SVSSS is just so intriguing

[the-music-maniac]

I was thinking about Bingliushen today, y'know, as you do, because of this awesome (and true) post here and was abruptly reminded of the complaints I've heard about Bingliushen on this basis, mostly that they can't see it happening between Binghe and Qingge and that it's unrealistic.

First of all, valid! People absolutely don't need to ship it, or think it's plausible tbh, fandom is fun because there are differing opinions.

But I still did want to talk about why I find the ship so compelling, since part of the reason I love it so much is BECAUSE it's so unlikely.

I want to preface this by saying first that I don't actually think LBH and LQG falling for each other is impossible, as some people do, since I think that's the biggest protest with this ship. People don't seem to have as much of an issue believing LiuShen. Anyways, I just think that LBH and LQG ending up as a thing is only merely difficult. That's kind of an important distinction.

And the reason is because I really don't think Luo Binghe is only capable of truly loving (in a general sense) one person as an adult (specified adult because we do see that he loved his mother as a kid. He's also fond of Ning Ying Ying as a child but we see that they're not as close when he comes back cause of the murdery demon thing). That does appear to be the case in the story because the man is VERY intense when it comes to Shen Qingqiu, but I think that's more of a result of all the trauma he experienced as a kid, and the abandonment issues. He fell for Shen Qingqiu as an impressionable child - through no fault of Shen Qingqiu obviously because he fully viewed Luo Binghe as a disciple and wasn't grooming him or anything (also they're cultivators so they're technically immortal? How does age differences work in that case?). Shen Qingqiu in that instance was the one person in his world as a teen, the first person outside immediate family to ever tell him he's not a monster for being a demon - and also someone who's considered more valuable than Binghe - a lauded, accomplished authority figure I suppose. Someone important who sees value in Binghe when he's been told he's worth nothing. The instances of being left behind by his mother (cause she died obvi) and then by one of the only other people who cared for him - pushing him off a cliff to die because he's a demon (or so he believes) has to fuck with your head. And if you love the person the amount Luo Binghe appears to, well I understand being intense once you finally get them back. To an unhealthy level tbh, but then again this man needs so much therapy in general 😅. Get you some healthy coping mechanisms and healing, good sir! Also it's just occuring me as I'm saying all of it that it sounds like I'm calling Luo Binghe out for having daddy issues (parental issues?) but like. I'm sorry but he kinda does.

So, I don't think anyone is only capable of loving a singular person, but, as I mentioned before, because this is their (LBH and SQQ's) love story, we only focus on them. LBH does have the capacity to rebuild a support system, to make friends, expand the amount of people who care about him and who he cares about. Basically my point is that I believe even though he doesn't have other close emotional relationships with people by the end of the book, that he potentially COULD. I also want to mention that the concept of polyamory for Binghe to me, in terms of only as sexual relationship in the beginning at least, is also not outside the realm of possibility, just cause of the existence of Bingge. We know he doesn't love anyone in that version of him, and it could be argued that matters change because he does love SQQ, but regardless, the fact is there that a version of Binghe does engage in polygamy. He is okay with multiple partners, that's not some huge hang-up or random morality issue for him. So the idea of LBH agreeing to a threesome with LQG and SQQ because he thinks SQQ would like it, isn't remotely impossible in my books.

It's hard to say if LQG is open to a relationship with multiple partners, we don't see much of his relationship preferences beyond the fact that he likes SQQ, but I can regardless see him being the type of person that grits his teeth and hangs around just to see SQQ and tries his best to get along with LBH cause it makes SQQ unhappy that they hate each other. I can see him noticing despite himself, LBH who, now that the situation is no longer so dire, challenges him and is on par, can defeat him over and over, merely because it's been so long since he's had a real challenge, has hit an immovable wall. Tbh LQG doesn't really give the time of day to people who haven't either helped him in some way (SQQ) or people who can match him in a fight. What is it like to find someone who actually gives him a run for his money? And what is it like seeing the downtime of LBH while he's there for SQQ's company, enough to realize that this man on top of being a demon that everyone in the sects laud as evil, partakes in those ordinary domestic things that every person does? What is it like to slowly be able to see that SQQ really isn't in any danger from LBH, and ending up on random errands with him in the name of peacekeeping, realizing they might actually work together well as a team? The hilarious thing is I'm pretty sure one of LQG's love languages is literally just. Violence. Fighting for SQQ's body back. Protecting those he cares about with force. Hunting for rare monsters to bring back. Shit like that. And y'know what? That's a language both LBH and LQG speak fluently. Very fluently. They can understand each other so easily. And I think that's something that LQG would be taken aback by in a good way.

Also if I'm going to be honest, as weird as it sounds, I'm pretty sure LBH is going to be the hold up in the getting along thing. Because at where canon ended: he had already won. He's with the person he loves. There isn't much incentive for him to be nice to LQG beyond not wanting SQQ to be disappointed. SQQ married him, chose him, regardless of what happens, SQQ is probably not going to leave LBH out of the two. Harsh, but solid logic. And his dislike of the other man is entirely connected to the fact that LQG likes SQQ and LBH has abandonment issues for days (for good reason tho I will say).

LQG on the other hand has acknowledged that LBH has won, and so he likely is also thinking along the same lines - I have more at stake here because if SQQ were forced to choose, no way would he choose me over the man he married. He really does have more incentive to get along with LBH. Not only that, a large part of his animosity also appeared to stem from worry about SQQ. Like he seemed to have fought LBH for SQQ's body back cause he thought LBH was doing some fucked up shit, being selfish etc. LQG doesn't seem the type to hold grudges. He dislikes LBH because it repeatedly and actively hurts to see him with SQQ - it's an anger and hatred that stems from softer emotions like the knowledge that he lost the man he loves, that he wasn't good enough (and here is where I cry btw). It's to protect himself from the emotional hurt. One that could potentially be alleviated by growing closer to both SQQ and LBH. Meanwhile at the beginning LBH is a kind of cold, smug dislike. So he really is the hold out. But again, the previous things I have said about how LBH doesn't only have the capacity to care about one person, coupled with his previous chill attitude towards sexual relations and polyamory and his rather obsessive need to please SQQ - I can very much see LBH agreeing to a threesome to make SQQ happy, and to taunt LQG, and then being slowly surprised at how much he doesn't actually?? Hate this??? SQQ doesn't love him any less or appear to have any thoughts of leaving him, and meanwhile he has this hot dude in his bed sounds like a win for everyone lmao

So anyways, that's kinda point one: I think it's very improbable, not impossible. It takes a very specific sequence of events. But it can happen.

Two:

I fully believe LQG and LBS are not soulmates or anything of the sort, since it does tend to be the general assumption within stories like this (xianxia and even wuxia), that there is the existence of soulmates, the red string of fate, a predetermination that these people will eventually care for each other, something more set in stone, or even of 缘分 (Yuán fen) where it's not fated in the sense that it's set in stone, but fated in that there is a high probability or an affinity for a relationship, or a meeting and event.

The point is that, certainty in a lot of stories, the concept of falling for each other no matter what, over and over, is a theme and viewed as romantic. And it absolutely is! I love stories where people end up together - in any capacity, doesn't have to be platonic - in every conceivable scenario. Hell, that's why I love reading AU's. And while it's not canonical that Binghe and Qingqiu are fated, while if anything their relationship is also a one in a million chance, people in the fandom still seem view BingQiu as soulmates. Or at least probable in the story. Valid. I mean it's hard to argue with the fact that they did indeed canonically fall in love against all odds - that is in character for them because this story is their love story.

But here's what drives me absolutely crazy in the best way about Liu Qingge and Luo Binghe's relationship: within the premises of canon (where LBH is damn possessive about SQQ and doesn't like LQG for that reason, and meanwhile LQG doesn't like LBH cause he thinks he's immoral and also cause he loves SQQ) they are the most unlikely, out of the left field, came out of absolutely nowhere to blindside you with the sheer depth of your emotions, type of love. They are the relationship that peak lords gossip about - "SQQ made sense, he was always fond of LBH, but LQG???? He was always the most vocal about his hatred. Well I never-" etc. Etc. They would be the relationship that shakes LQG and LBH's understanding of themselves and how the world around them functions to the core: because neither of them could've imagine in a million years that they had the capacity to view their greatest enemy with the tenderness of love. The sheer audacity of it, of suggesting these bitter romantic rivals could grow to love each other to match what they feel for SQQ - that's the good shit.

After all, while SQQ and LBH were also unlikely, they were only that because LBH was a fictional character up until Shen Yuan died. Even as a disciple LBH knew he liked SQQ, this man fully saw that one coming. And SQQ may be oblivious as fuck romantically, but even so he did acknowledge that he was already fond of LBH. They most certainly did go through hardships and obstacles to get where they are - but always with the acknowledgement that loving each other was never the hard part. It was always everything else.

So there's point two of why I like the unlikeliness of BingLiuShen - because loving each other is the difficult path for LBH and LQG. With the bitterness of everything that had passed, falling is not the part that is easy. And it shakes the laws of this universe. It makes LBH and LQG question everything. It makes them wonder what they know about the world, the rigid lines of black and white they've lived in, and their stubborn ideas that love can only ever be a finite source that will run out if you spread too widely. And not only that, it may help with LBH's abandonment issues - to have two people willingly choose him against all odds - one who actually started off hating him. And in the process, his level of attachment to SQQ might become a little healthier. Like I get that it is a story so no judgement here, but it can't be good for LBH to place his entire value of the world all in one singular person. That's hard on both SQQ and LBH. In making LBH question his worldview and viewpoints on love and relationships, it may be the thing that kickstarts him letting other people in in a platonic capacity as well. And as for LQG's worldview, it would be nice to show him that there can incandescent happiness in this life, not merely just contentment with his usual rigid routine. To give him a happy ending, truly. This is just a fancy way of saying he makes my heart hurt so I want to give him two boyfriends the end.

The enemies to friends to lovers trope also ties into this and is so compelling because it also requires so much character growth to occur for it to work. Like not only is their worldview shaken, but both LQG and LBH need to change as people (for the better) for them to even consider making a relationship with all three of them work out in the long run. People don't hate each other for no reason, there is almost always some Bad Thing™ that occurs to make them dislike each other, be it rivalry (love rivalry in this case) an outside force (their respective groups are enemies) or because they hate some aspect of the other person. It involves acting on their worst instincts - pushing someone away from jealousy, hurting each other because they let anger take over. For that to become love, requires WORK. It requires each character to actively notice their own biases, choose of their own volition to correct themselves, to change and possibly become better as they get to come to understand their "enemy". They have to choose to lay down their arms, every single step of the way. That is so difficult to do. So unlikely. So improbable. As I said before, it's the harder path. And yet they walk it, and if they succeed, I think that's something so precious because it was so quietly and fiercely fought for.

Anyways this is getting long as fuck so while I have some more to say about BingLiuShen as a whole, I think I'll end this here. Thank you so much for reading!

[hiemaldesirae]

please. I'm begging you for more crumbs about VADD!Shen Jiu and also that Roxana AU you have from that art post you did of the two.

As a VADD AND SVSSS fan, especially as a fan of the original villains— please. I AM FROTHING AT THE MOUTH FOR MORE. I'm actually in the process of outlining a crossover with the original goods of both.

God, the Roxana one as well— please, PLEASE TELL ME SJ IS ROXIE HE'S SO ROXANA-CODED SOMEHOW. GIVE HIM BUTTERFLIES AND POISON AND— *gets knocked out*

by the way, LOVE your artstyle. scratches an itch i did not know existed in my brain. your chibis as well. they're so cute!!

oh you have no idea how long ive waited to talk about them. this mayyy get a bit long so ill leave it under the readmore.

disclaimer: i intend on finishing these fics so what im going to be talking about is inspirations and unfinished / abandoned ideas and other ideas i have for the works instead of anything relating to the plots themselves

for svadd, sj is a lot more complicated than he appears to be on the surface. im not so sure if what i have written currently is what i /want/ exactly because i know i want his character to go a certain way. the relationships between him and his modern-day friends is one meant to parallel the in-game "shen qingqiu" sj compares himself to and in much the same way, mirror the way that sy contrasts himself with sqq in canon: but instead of being condescending and viewing sqq as a one dimensional character, sj is able to appreciate his nuance while still being rightfully angry over his actions

to me, sj is supposed to be an unreliable narrator who constantly enforces his own thoughts. he tells himself over and over that he misses his home and that he wants to go back, that he absolutely needs to- but then, he turns the other way and finds himself being sucked even deeper into this different one.

i also really wanted to explore how sjs dynamic with a lot of the characters would be affected knowing that they were "based off" his real friends, but again im not very confident with how it came off lol

there was a lot of points in the story where i attempted to add in foreshadowing for the ending i want the story to take... in any case, it definitely wont go the same way as vadd, though i did toy with the idea of a "version" of sy being the main villain haha

(it might still happen for shits and giggles)

as for the roxanna au there are a lot of things ive wanted to do with this au and its good that i havent posted because it means i can keep revising til i come up with something good lol

its a liujiu au with some bingyuan / cumplane thrown into the mix (the cumplane is overwhelmingly toxic btw bingyuan is the healthy one out of the two here 😭) where yes sj is xana !!! he really just makes such a good manhwa villainess haha

i had been puzzling over what i wanted his motif to be-- after all, sj is typically associated with the simplicity and calming bamboo so the glittering butterflies wouldnt work with him- but after some deliberation i decided with using moths for him :3c still subject to change ofc but i think im happy with this as is

the story is somewhat similar to how roxanna goes but surprise sj isnt the transmigrator here! (and honestly, roxanna wouldve been sm better if xana hadnt been a transmigrator... or maybe i just think that because it was only used as a convenient plot point for her to know crucial info. sigh.)

my outline of how the roxanna au goes is basically this:

lqg fucks around and finds out

sj who has been seeing dreams of the "book" sy read knows what will happen to his family if lqg dies

etc

at the same time: sy, transmigrator, attempts to make sure his only surviving older brother lives to a long happy life and the only way he can secure this is by fucking up that hack author

also i killed off qi-ge and idk if i want him to come back. he'll be like the stereotypical dead anime mother for this au lmao

hmm and i think thats all i have to say for these aus... thanks for giving me a chance to ramble on haha ~ much appreciated !! and thank you for the compliment, im flattered!! 🥹🥹💕

[tiredbitchposts]

Do you mind if I ask your top 10 favorite characters (can be male or female) from all of the media that you loved (can be anime/manga, books, movies or tv series)? And why do you love them? Sorry if you've answered this question before.....Thanks...

Sure i'll try my best to answer this for you

10-) Gaara from Naruto

Reason: He's the first antagonist i've ever rooted for, not for his plans but for his mental health. When i first saw his backstory i just wanted to riot bc damn, people really treated this boy like a monster since day one and then got surprised when he started acting like it, i just wanted him happy and at the least i got that at the end of the anime (No, i refuse to watch Boruto on principle)

9-) Tsukiyomi Ikuto from Shugo Chara

Reason: We all have our problematic shoujo male leads that we love. In my defense i watched Shugo Chara when i was 12 years old and it wasn't until later when i realized the age difference but even then i still have a soft spot for him in my heart. He and his sister suffered so much and i just want them happy, healthy and taken care of (he's also the reason why i'm into catboys now that i think abt it)

8-)Naruto Uzumaki from Naruto

Reason: He's my baby boy (not in a carnal way), i watched this boy grow up rooting for him to achieve his dreams, he's the first male protagonist i was emotionally invested in and ngl to this day i still read fix-it fics for his childhood because in my heart of hearts he deserves it (Still refusing to watch Boruto tho)

7-) Haruka Nanase from free! Iwatobi swim club

Reason: The reason is not as deep as the others i'm afraid, i genuinely loved Free! When it first came out, i was obsessed with Haru's character and the way he was as a person, he's extremely attractive and i want to crack him open like an egg and study his insides (he's also very shipable and i like that in a fictional man)

6-) Kageyama Tobio from Haikyuu

Reason: He's my awkward lil guy. I loved the way he developed as a character, from a temperamental, lonely volleyball genius to the type of guy that still uses the signature his upperclassman came up for him in high school as a pro player. I also really liked how we only got the reason why he was acting like he did in middle school only at the end of the end of the manga and how it made everything make sense in retrospect

5-) Hinamori Amu from Shugo Chara

Reason: Shugo Chara was my first magical girls anime and i still have a really soft spot for Amu in my heart. I know she's not the most well written deep characters around but i really like how she was an escape for me when i was younger. She was a pretty, popular, preteen girl who was an awkward mess and while i could only relate to the awkward mess, the fact that she got publicaly rejected by her crush and her taste in fashion i still watched her go because it felt good to see her do so

4-) Jason Todd from the Batman franchise

Reason: He's my babygirl (not always in a carnal way), this boy suffered so much in life, was happy for a few years, got brutally murdered, then brought back to suffer more. He's one of Dc's favorite punching bags and my dream is to see him happy, healthy and in therapy. Really hate how his own father won't avenge his death or let him do it himself, just fuck that clown already since you like him so much

3-) Wei Wuxian from Mdzs

Reason: I really do have a thing for red wearing, died but got better, on his second life but sluttier than ever characters. This boy deserves the world, he did do many morally reprehensible things in his time but it's all justified because i said so, he deserved his happy ending and my only complaint is that it didn't come sooner

2-) Shen Qingqiu from Scum Villain's self-saving system

Reason: This man is a whole ass clown, a walking contradiction, he's the reason why some people describe Scum Villain as a greek tragedy with clown music playing in the background. I've never seen someone so in-tune but detached from reality, bro doesn't even know his own emotions, on the inside he's a chronically online millenial on the outside he's the milfiest shizun in the Cang Qiong mountain sect and everyone knows it

1-) Kagome Higurashi from Inuyasha

Reason: This is my girl and i'll not take any criticism for it. She's a 15 years old middle schooler having to go back in time to fix a magical jewel to save japan and she's being so brave about it. She's an extremely kind person, does her best to see the good in everyone, even in people that attempted om her life before, she's a bit immature at times and has a temper but again, she's 15. She deserved better in general and because of that, and many more other reasons, that i fucking refuse to ever watch Yashahime, i just think it sucks she didn't even get to raise her daughter

[tododeku-or-bust]

Time for yet another Scum Villain take post; today, let's briefly deconstruct some of the "problematic" arguments. Long post ahead:

1. "Shen Qingqiu is Luo Binghe's teacher, it's inappropriate"

Y'all not gone like it when I say this, but uh: student Luo Binghe's romantic feelings have fuck all to do with Shen Yuan. It is actually integral to the plot that Shen Yuan is 1) unaware that Binghe is not the toxically macho straight character he expects, 2) knows absolutely NOTHING about his feelings and 3) DOES NOT RETURN THEM.

For literally half the book, he thinks this way and returns zero feelings. In fact, he doesn't find out until he dies, comes back to life years later, meets a 24-25 year old Luo Binghe unintentionally, and realizes that 1) he's literally tearing his mental state apart, 2) he's gay, and 3) he's gay for him.

He proceeds to fight himself via directly internalized homophobia for the rest of the book, until the end when he lets himself love Binghe bc Binghe needs to be loved.

2. "But but but Maigu Ridge- 🥺"

Now, forgive me if I'm remembering poorly, but I'm pretty sure that neither of them wanted that scenario to occur.

Luo Binghe is, at that point, being pushed by the narrative (which, say it with me now, choir, 👋🏾 Overarching Theme!!! 👋🏾) and seeing as I'll never get the phrase "intestinal fluid" out of my head, it wasn't written to be romantic either. It was actually a great deconstruction of that sort of romantic "fix it" scene (which no, i won't stop writing, but i recognize that I'm writing FICTION)

I just personally feel like if we're not gonna call Wei Wuxian getting Lan Wangji drunk and sleeping with him problematic (which, i don't, bc idc and again, it's fiction) then we need to stop acting like this was somehow just a "failed love scene". It sucks, and it's supposed to.

Nothing, NOTHING in this book is touching the level of cringe as that Sword Hilt-Incense Burner-R*pe Kink MDZS extra. Idc, I'll die on that hill 🤣

Like is Binghe still kinda crazy? Yes. 100%. Choices were made. Shen Yuan? I would also say mildly batshit. But Scum Villain is not by far so "problematic" as to not be read and appreciated for what it is (i keep seeing the take 'its her first book' but frankly, i just think it's unique from the other two) anyway, Y'all just think you're too good for it 🤣

[best-yandere-tournament]

Beefleaf: SQX is targeted by a demon who prays on fear and suffering as a child, which is intending to drive him to suicide and suffering. Having no other choice, SQX's brother SWD uses a ancient technique to switch SQX's fate with another person with the same name and birthdate. <-That's He Xuan. Using HX's fate, SQX(unknowing)'s life gets better and better, and eventually ascends to godhood with SWD. On the other hand, HX, with SQX's fate, is now the target of the demon and his life gets worse and worse. His family dies one by one gruesomely, and HX finally snaps, killing everybody who wronged him before dying from exhaustion. As he lays dying, he sees SWD standing over his body. Filled with resentment, he returns to life as a ghost, intent on finding out the reason for his suffering. He devours the demon who tormented him, and rises to become one of the four most powerful ghosts, earning the moniker "Black Water Sinking Ships".After realising what SWD did, he swears vengeance. He kidnaps and takes the place of another newly ascended god, Ming Yi. HX, now MY, befriends SQX in the heavens to get close to him and his brother, awaiting the day he could take his revenge. During this centuries-long time, SQX and MY become best friends, nigh on inseparable. Finally, the day of reckoning arrived. HX takes on the form of the demon to reveal the truth to SQX, before kidnapping SQX. When SWD arrives to rescue him, HX gives him and ultimatum: either SQX must kill SWD, or SWD must swap SQX's fate with that of a madman's, leaving him to suffer. SWD creates a third path, angering HX until HX rips SWD's head off in front of SQX. SWD dies with the knowledge that he won, that no matter what happened now, he and his brother had gotten all those years together, while HX could never get his family back again. His last words are " My fate is up to me and not the heavens!" In the aftermath, HX strips SQX of his godly power, leaving him to live as a crippled beggar for the rest of his days.

Bingqui: theyre soooooo <3 - shen qingqiu gets so mad over a shitty book that he dies and transmigrates into it as the antagonist. he decides to be nice to the protagonist (luo binghe) so that he doesnt get his arms and legs chopped off and his body stuffed into a jar. as a result luo binghe falls in love with him. - shen qingqiu literally Does Not See any of the characters as people, he sees them as characters in the book. Including binghe. Hes always like "aghhhhh my favourite little white lotus <3 the protagonist <3 my blorbo <3" like binghe is straight up Not a person to him - an evil computer controlling shen qingqiu's actions forces him to push luo binghe off a cliff into the abyss to experience Horrible Trauma. at no point does binghe learn that shen qingqiu was forced to do this, he simply chooses to Get Over It. - shen qingqiu is luo binghe's teacher, so you would think that that's the core of the unequal power dynamic, right ? WRONG. - luo binghe is a super OP demon lord with unimaginble power. He has the protagonist halo and literally cannot lose. also he gives shen qingqiu a blood parasite std so he can literally control him and shit. you would think that THAT's the core of the unequal power dynamic then, right ? ALSO WRONG - luo binghe is so so obsessed with shen qingqui if sqq told him to leave and never come back or smth he would straight up kill himself - literally no one is winning. its an unequal power dynamic no matter how you look at it but NO ONE IS WINNING - shen qingqui dies and luo binghe literally sleeps with his dead body for like five years. - theyre sooooo codependent like their whole relationship is binghe being horribly soppy over shen qingqiu and just generally stalker level obsessed while shen qingqiu pretends to hate it but secretly loves it and absolutely is obsessed with binghe being obsessed with him. - they deserve each other sososo much they make each other worse and they love that <3

[veilchenjaeger]

Shen Qingqiu really went from dying in front of his computer because he ate expired food to dying in the wreckage of an apocalypse-in-progress to save his beloved from being entirely consumed by the evil demonic energy that had slowly been corroding his mind. Poetic cinema.