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mymoshangthoughts · 5 months ago

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one thing i've been grappling with lately is the 'harem' aspects of shen yuan's story arc

like it's objectively my least favorite part. not if he actually had a harem, im all for multishipping and polyshipping, but the whole "every man fell in love with him" thing

which isn't really even that true to canon. yue qingyuan had a very turbulent relationship with shen jiu and his feelings toward shen yuan do appear to be a carryover from that relationship. and liu qingge's feelings toward shen yuan CAN be read as platonic, albeit with some stretches of the imagination given the whole succubus extra. tho i do think the more canon compliant interpretation is that liu qingge at least has a crush. zhuzhi-lang's feelings really don't read as romantic and neither does tianlang-jun's, and no other characters are really that obsessed with shen yuan. aside from his disciples but that is explicitly written as platonic. which basically just leaves luo binghe and liu qingge as the only members of his 'harem'

so while i dont think its not canon compliant to write all of those characters having a Thing for shen yuan, i actually think there was even some authorial intent in doing so, my issue is that i actually dislike that type of story-telling

like on a personal taste level, i dont enjoy the entire concept of "male lead and sub male lead". if you're gonna give your protag multiple love interests, just fucking commit to a poly ending istg. i'm just not really interested in love triangles at all

and beyond that, i really don't enjoy the trope of "everyone is obsessed with x character". it's a reeeeeaaalllyyy boring trope to me. i like contrast. i like complicated relationships. like my enjoyment of shen yuan's story would spike 3000% if yue qingyuan didn't like him. like walk with me, what if yue qingyuan, as the only person who both knew about shen jiu on a deeper level and cared for him deeply, was deeply uncomfortable with this pod person? what if he struggled with disliking shen yuan bc he still thinks its an amnesia situation but he kinda hates everything that makes him different from shen jiu. like im not even a yuejiu shipper (to the point that im not sure thats the ship name LOL) but i just think that would be WAY more compelling?

i dont really have notes on liu qingge's relationship with him because they did a good job establishing how they bonded over time and what they bonded over, so the relationship reads as realistic. i prefer to view liu qingge's feelings for him as (mostly) platonic solely because i detest the whole second-male-lead-trope, but the relationship makes sense and liu qingge's feelings make sense

but like... everyone else? im just confused. because look, i enjoy that shen yuan's disciples love him but............ because so much of his time with his disciples is off screen im left wondering why. like they have such a fierce unshakable loyalty toward him, but we almost always see shen yuan neglecting them in favor of spoiling luo binghe. like idk about you, but if my teacher neglected me constantly and played favorites, i wouldn't exactly be jumping to give him my life to defend him. and see, im sure that there was a lot of things that happened off screen to make them so attached. my problem is that it all happened off screen, ya know? im reading ning yingying ready to give up her life in battle to protect her shizun's honor and im just like "but why do you care?"

to some extent i also feel this way about liu qingge. they did more to establish the liuyuan relationship than most of the other relationships so i give it a pass, but tbh by the time liu qingge was fighting luo binghe every single day over a corpse i was a little bit "...why tho?". the extras did something to express their budding friendship and there is the whole 'he saved my life so i save his life' thing, so im not saying it was out of left field, but i was a bit taken aback by the development. it was one of those "huh... i mean i guess that makes sense?" moments for me

i also just feel like i'd be more compelled by shen yuan if he had more haters. cuz there's some really justifiable reasons for characters to dislike him. like what if mu qingfang resented him because he caused him to get kidnapped or his reckless neglect got disciples injured? i'm not saying that i want shen yuan to be demonized or widely hated, i'd just like if he got more push-back i guess. he does get pushback in canon, but it's all canon-fodder villains. sure, shen jiu's ex hates the ground he walks on, but her grudge is against shen jiu, not shen yuan, and she's a very two dimensional character who exists solely to cause problems and then die horribly.

tbh i think thats why i enjoy the cumplane friendship bc airplane doesnt seem to really get along that well with cucumber (and vice versa lol). they have the vibe of "we would literally never be friends if we werent literally forced together" which is a delightful vibe imo LOL. i like forcing characters together against their will until they get unwillingly attached. again, just a personal flavor that i enjoy, i think thats an aspect of liuyuan that i like too. so it's good to see someone on the main cast who isnt canon fodder be a little bit critical of shen yuan

tbh tho, my real issue isnt actually with the canon events of svsss. yes, i did read it and i had the reading comprehension to understand "the author is going for reverse harem vibes" and i chose to kinda ignore those vibes because, as stated above, i dont like them and since they're not 100% confirmed, i can come up with alternative explanations that remain canon compliant

my issue is that i keep running into the shen yuan harem fanon. which again, has PLENTY of kindling in canon. the people who read this book and said "shen yuan harem" were having good reading comprehension and picking up what the author was putting down. they're also just having a good time and i absolutely support that for them LOL. this is in no way a criticism of them or their likes or their fanon

my issue is with my own personal tastes

cuz normally even when i dont really like an aspect of a characters story, if i really like the character then i can just accept the canon of it. as an example, im squicked out by cannibalism but i really enjoy xue yang from mdzs (who has the whole weird 'i eat tongues in tea' thing). it's a squick of mine, but because i enjoy that character, i continue to characterize xue yang as having cannibalistic traits. even though theres a certain level of dubiousness to xue yang's tongue-tea thing (we dont actually see it, he just talks about it, and xue yang isnt exactly a reliable narrator). so if i wanted to get out of the cannibal xue yang thing, i could make justifications to avoid it. but because i like to be pretty dedicated to remaining as canon-compliant as possible with my characterizations, i chose to just endure my squick

and that's why im struggling right now. i know what my NORMAL reaction to finding a trope that i personally dislike in a character that i like is. my normal reaction is just the above. i want to enjoy the character for who they actually are within the text of the story rather than who i want them to be.

and within canon, shen yuan is a little bit of a "everyone somewhat irrationally loves and becomes obsessed with him" character.

normally i'd just accept it

but for some reason i really hate to accept it in this particular situation. i keep talking myself into circles over it. i keep trying to headcanon my way around the special treatment he receives. i keep getting annoyed when im reading a fic and suddenly in the background theres shen yuan with thirty suitors. and idk why i cant just accept it and move on

i maintain that for the majority of the characters, the harem vibes can definitely be explained away through canon compliant means that arent even a stretch, but i find myself trying to make that stretch for liuyuan. which i dont dislike liuyuan at all. and its not like bingyuan is my otp or anything. im very happy to just read a liuyuan fic or a bingliu fic or ship them both with other people. it's specifically the reverse harem aspect of it thats getting under my skin. its specifically the love triangle stuff. it's specifically the sub-male lead thing.

anyway i keep grappling with it bc a few reasons but one of them is that i realized some part of it legitimately makes me enjoy shen yuan less. like, when he's just some guy from a somewhat privileged background who got trapped in a porn novel he read, i like him just fine. but when he's The Most Eligible Bachelor Ever, then i start to roll my eyes and stop reading

and again, it's a canon compliant headcanon. just because i think that the yueyuan story arc would have been ten million times more compelling if yue qingyuan could tell he wasnt shen jiu and resented that, that isnt what happened. yue qingyuan either didn't notice that shen jiu had been possessed and seemingly enjoyed his changed personality. or he did notice shen jiu had been possessed and decided to do nothing about it and embraced the person who possessed him. i dont get my compelling arc of "you replaced the person most important to me and i dont know how to stop hating you for that and it hurts", i got what we got. and no shade to the yueyuan shippers who enjoyed what we got, but it wasnt compelling for me lol. it's why i dont really ship yue qingyuan with either shen jiu or shen yuan (even tho i adore his relationship with shen jiu and yue qingyuan as a character, i just choose to view yuejiu platonically cuz it wasnt my personal flavor for shipping)

anyway this is just me expressing a struggle ive been having lately LOL theres no real purpose to this other than this aspect of svsss just doesnt appeal to my personal tastes and for some reason, im struggling more than i normally would

i think i could like it more if there was more time spent on each of those relationships. or again, if they'd just committed to poly ending LOL. but tbh, as is, i just kinda wish those elements didnt exist within canon. because they distract a bit from the bingyuan instead of complimenting it (imo) and then theres no follow through on it other than the vague implication that shen yuan left a trail of broken hearts behind him. which again, just not a trope that appeals to me on a personal level

idk, i just realized recently that my personal distaste for it has caused me to just start avoiding shen yuan content and that kinda sucks cuz i do like shen yuan. and so ive been grappling with it

i might just try to make my own shen yuan content??? or maybe i'll just try to avoid him more thoroughly. cuz again, it's not like i think people are wrong for seeing what they see, i just dont like it.

i think an interesting solution might be to explore the actual world-building. like the world itself was built with harem-shenanigans in mind. since luo binghe is refusing his role as center of the harem, what if reality itself is attempting to bend the minds of those close to shen yuan to make him centerpiece. so its not actually that everyone loves him (somewhat) irrationally, it's that the world itself is acting as a love potion.

another alternative that we're just a bit limited by shen yuan's pov. like yue qingyuan IS struggling with those things but he's working really hard to hide it. liu qingge does not in fact view shen yuan that way, but the confusing words of the succubus combined with the aphrodisiac made him confused and scared. when he was calm enough to look at the situation later, he was embarrassed that he almost let himself get gaslit into a crush that he didnt even have. or something to that degree. the disciples all hold shen yuan in such high regard because there were countless off-screen moments that were very forgettable to shen yuan, and therefore not worth referencing or reflecting upon, but that fully explain the extent of their devotion to him.

or again, just go poly LOL. post canon is just an actual poly situation, but it's actually luo binghe slowly and accidentally falling in love with all the men who are pursuing his husband LOL and luo binghe reasoning that, look, if shizun is into it too, i can use shizun as bait to seduce them all..... or smth idk LOL. i do think that the worldbuilding of svsss is more primed for poly than most works lmfao considering that binghe is poly in pidw canon and clearly shen yuan was into that otherwise WHY WOULD HE READ A MILLION CHAPTERS OF POLY PORN. so with two poly husbands, feels like it would only make sense that the pair of them would date other people (both together and separate) once they've settled down and worked out all their insecurities. like at the end of the series, luo binghe is still Deeply insecure about so many things. but once he's had time to realize that his place in shizun's heart isn't going anywhere, why wouldn't he want to explore the fact that he is in fact poly?

my personal preference for poly fiction is that all parties like all parties (even tho thats not necessarily realistic to irl poly life LOL but they fly on swords so im not really looking for realism in my fiction) so i would def prefer fics where its like, bingyuan getting themselves a harem instead of shen yuan getting himself a harem. also my bingliu loving heart would be sad if it was just bingyuan and liuyuan LOL

all that to say, i want more liujiu content LOL loooookkkkk i love me a problematic hateship and those two are DELIGHTFUL. the amount i would kill for the bg pairing in a moshang fic to be liujiu instead of bingyuan or whatever else LOLOL i dont even want them happy together x'D i want them being toxic and terrible in the background. like shang qinghua is struggling with his mobei jun Situationship and he cant get any fucking sleep at night because liujiu are having a Roommates AU nextdoor and they keep trying to literally murder each other in the dead of night lmfao i want this so badly you have no idea. shang qinghua, somewhere near the end of his moshang drama, randomly sees them making out in the hallway and he's just like ".............i hate them both, if kissing could solve their stupid problems WHY DIDNT THEY DO IT SOONER I HOPE THEY BOTH DIE" and he goes to bed that night at least happy that he'll get some fucking sleep without wearing headphones BUT NOPE, NOW THEY'RE FUCKING AND SHANG QINGHUA WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL IF THEY WOULD EITHER A. DIE, B. INVITE HIM BC NOW HE'S HORNY AND LONELY, C. DIIEEEEE

i want this fic now lol. bingyuan can be there too pfff, just a weird established poly couple who at some point hit on shang qinghua and/or mobei jun bc "oh hot guy" and then have a very nice threesome with sha hualing and now she's living on their couch and "airplane you dont understand she's eating snacks while reading my books and staining the pages, im going insane and i wanna scream and kick her out but also lowkey i think me and my husband are falling a bit in love with her and she has this weird ace girlfriend who stays over who is GORGEOUS btw, at least i think bc she wont take off her mask, and airplane dont you dare fucking hang up on me--"

like oki yeah thats the flavor i want for my background bingyuan. established, happy, comfortable, exploring their poly options. also bingyuan x sha hualing is underrated and i will die on that hill LOL i just think it's notable that basically all of luo binghe's original harem grew to hate him, dislike him, or ship him with his husband and sha hualing is the only person who still liked him and actually was close enough to him (proximity wise) to know what his personality was actually like and STILL liked him. ning yingying knew him at his most vulnerable and by post canon she basically doesnt give a fuck about him. liu mingyan writes smut about him and his husband. xiao gongzhu seems to despise him. qin wanyue still likes him but tbh i dont think she knows him very well and ALSO qin wanyue pisses me the fuck off. the fact that she was still pining after luo binghe mere moments after her little sister was brutally murdered reeaaalllly makes me dislike her. i know that this is more of mxtx and her generally bad writing of female characters and less of a purposeful character trait that qin wanyue was assigned, but im a death of the author type of dude and authorial intent and failings set aside, it makes qin wanyue a deeply unpleasant character imo. which leaves sha hualing as the only one who likes him, knows him well, and i still find likeable LOL. (yes i know that sha hualing killed her father for binghe but a. we have no idea if she had a good or bad relationship with her dad. b. its canonically established that demons dont think much of familial bonds in stark contrast to qin wanyue who is human. c. i like that sha hualing is a bad person LOL. my issue with qin wanyue is that she's an otherwise tepid person, she's not an interesting villain who plotted the downfall of her sister, she's just someone who thinks getting her dick wet is more interesting than grieving the death of her younger sister who she seemed to think was immature but otherwise didn't have a lot of bad blood with her).

back to the ot3 shenanigans and on the shen yuan side of things, i just think about all the times he was highkey ogling her when she showed up LOL like you cannot convince me this man is not bi and interested. he's also like "dont put your dick in crazy" (wise) and recognizes that sha hualing is off her rocker LOL but tbh i think thats part of the appeal of the ship. shen yuan is sitting here like "right, so she's literally the craziest person ive ever met, stop looking at her tits, omfg why did i think that now im not going to stop thinking that and oh god she's terrifying and horrible, i think i hate her but also ahhh i kinda cant stop thinking about her now?!?!". i love shen yuan struggling with falling in love with crazy (again LOL he already has luo binghe. now it would be TWO yanderes lmfao)

for the record, i do enjoy mingling quite a bit, my only reason i dont fixate on them more is that they're both very flat characters who dont interact much (again, mxtx does not write female characters well and it drives me a lot insane as someone who normally has all female blorbos. like its a testament to how much i love women that i put so much work into characterizing these cardboard cutouts that mxtx tried to sell us as women). i think theres a lot of potential for mingling to be a fantastic ship and their dynamic could be really great, but basically the most characterization we get for liu mingyan is she's an rpf loving fujoshi. her other traits are... she's composed? good fighter? doesnt take off her mask? very pretty? it's really barebones pickings if youre a liu mingyan fan and you basically have to fill in all the blanks for her personality from scratch. which is something im already doing for sha hualing, bc i love her LOL, so i just need to persuade myself to put in the effort for liu mingyan as well. my gl loving ass is doing all the fucking work here. my bare ass pickings for "these girls are in love" is "they were in the same room once" and No I'm Not Bitter (im VERY bitter). ngl i was very excited when i started reading svsss cuz i saw there was a lot of fandom for female characters so i thought "man maybe mxtx finally decided to pass the bechdel test" (a bullshit test by all accounts but man is it notable when your work CANT pass even that bullshit test). like i got even more excited as i started reading and the premise became apparent. this is the world of a harem novel??? holyshit!! the author is gonna have no choice but to write multiple interesting women!!! omgosh, i hope the protagonist befriends them or something! shit this is gonna be so cool, i am Ready. and then the most interesting woman i get is a yandere who is obsessed with the male protagonist. and nope i dont count su xiyan because she appears for one damn scene in an extra. i admit she seems really cool and interesting and i would love to get to know her more but ohwow she got fridged for the angst of a male character, ive never seen mxtx do that to a female character before 🙄. look, im definitely a fan of mxtx's works and i still adore their female characters even tho the writing on those characters is abysmal, i definitely dont go to mxtx's works looking for great female characters, im obviously in here for the boys love and technically speaking, well-written female characters are unnecessary for those purposes. its like going to a hamburger joint and complaining about their crappy tacos. like what did you expect bro, they serve burgers. all that to say, i still definitely criticize it and i think mxtx's works would only be better if there was more thought put into the female characters

like, if ning yingying was given an actual arc and we were able to SEE the scenes that made her so dedicated to her shizun. and by the point that she's getting into fights that are out of her league to defend her shizun, you've had a lot of time to love her and get to know her and love her relationship with shen yuan so you're just as anxious as shen yuan is about her safety. because she's an interesting and compelling character who was given screentime. and you explore her bond with luo binghe, how the love she had for him when they were younger morphed into disdain slowly and how they both felt about that. ning yingying struggling with "was the person i once knew ever real or was he always a bastard?" and luo binghe struggling with "did she ever actually care about me as an individual or was all of her kindness shallow lies?". im not saying introduce a bingying arc, im just saying that their friendship ought to have meant something to the both of them and i think that the work itself would have been better if it addressed what that friendship meant to them and made ning yingying a well-rounded character who had more personality than "she's oblivious and causes men to fight over her on accident" and "she's very loyal to her shizun"

that's just my preference tho. i prefer works that have well-written female characters (or at least characters who have more well rounded personalities LOL) but just because i prefer those works, it doesnt mean that i dont enjoy my time here. i still love ning yingying, sha hualing, and liu mingyan even tho i have to do all the work in rounding out their personalities LOL and i still clearly enjoy the work itself. that said, it does make it hard for my lesbian loving ass to get really into a yuri ship when the most interaction is "they got in a fight like twice" IM STILL HERE FOR IT, but my mind wanders to other ships where theres more food lolol. that said, i think ning yingying x sha hualing is underrated and more people should explore it LOL (look they were in the same room once and for all my complaints THAT IS ENOUGH FOR ME PFF)

anyway, rather than complaining about the food out there that isnt to my taste, i really should just make my own food LOL but i prolly wont. had a lot of writers block lately and besides that, its really Not That Deep. just me overthinking a minor issue where im like "ew shen yuan harem dnw" and wondering why the fuck i cant seem to get over it (also a very off topic rant abt mxtx writing women lol)

all of that to say, if anyone ever wrote a modern au moshang fic with chaotic neighbors roommate au liujiu and established poly bingyuan x sha huling, link it to me immediately bc now that ive mentioned this premise, i need to read it LOL maybe if i ever get money i'll commission a writer to make it (hmmm what if the moshang of it all is "help im in love with my shitty boss" on r/relationshipadvice LOL)

#very random personal opinions on svsss lol #the ramblings of an insane man who thinks too much

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dreamerstreamer · 4 years ago

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im so curious to hear your thoughts on george’s recent dethronement?

this is going to be a long one, so strap in, folks!

there are two central ideas that surround george’s dethronement: the nature of power and what it means to protect someone. i’ll be talking about them in order as stated, then providing my final take at the end.

1) the nature of power

so, power—what is it as seen on the dream smp? for the most part, power has been established largely by two things: 1) how much of a threat you are, and 2) how much influence you have. as of this moment, it’s clear that the two most powerful people on the server are dream and technoblade; both of them are immensely powerful and could easily take down an entire nation if they so pleased, while also being incredibly influential in their sphere of power. dream could say one word and an entire flock of people would switch sides just to agree with him. technoblade has mastery over his use of languages as presented through speeches, which have clearly left an impact on the server as a whole. just based on these two facts alone, we can determine that power in the dream smp is based on how threatening and influential you are.

looking at the position of king within the dream smp faction, it’s quite clear that despite holding such a grand title, the king in itself is not exactly a position that ensures its holder will have power. instead, it is more of a figurehead position. dream does most if not all of the negotiations regarding the country, managing its internal and external affairs entirely by himself, while the king does none of that. while eret was king, he was not particularly feared by others for his power—rather, he was hated because of his position and his association with the faction. the same can be said for george’s time spent as king. did he suddenly gain immense influence or become much more frightening? no, not at all. all he got was a new house and a fancy title. being king entails the castle, the name, and the entourage of people, nothing more and nothing less. the true position of power within the faction beings to dream, who has been labelled as god within the dream smp world. there’s really no beating him there.

to me and dream, dream’s dethronement of george means very little, as george is effectively losing nothing of value. the castle? he literally had a house before. the title? it’s a single word before his name. the entourage? it’s not like he doesn’t have friends. from an entirely political standpoint, george loses nothing from being dethroned. he never called the shots and didn’t have any more power or influence as king. so from one perspective, everything should be just fine, as the transfer of kingship does not entail a transfer of power.

however, it is very clear that to many within the dream smp that the title of king does actually hold some semblance of value. why? “well, you’re a king! isn’t that cool? you’re different. you’re above us.” because of these beliefs, there do exist people who are upset by george’s abdication, like sapnap and quackity. they think that dream’s dethronement of george means that he thinks that george does not deserve to be in a position of power. george himself believes that dream thinks this, and as a result is angry.

when asked about if he cares about being king, george responds with, “we need the throne.” george believes he needs the throne because he thinks that being king gives him power. what george fails to realize though, is that the title itself means nothing. technoblade is no king, and yet he is arguably the second most powerful person on the server. as such, dream’s transition of kingship from george to eret has formed two different sides.

2) what it means to protect someone

from the other day’s stream, dream makes it explicitly clear that he cares about nothing on the server save for tommy’s discs, which expand his sphere of influence and thus make him more powerful. he shouts in four people’s faces and even curses about it, making his stance on the matter remarkably clear. however, we (later) learn that this is largely a ruse, as dream does care about his friends, taking clear interest in protecting them from harm. he explains that he wants to dethrone george to protect him from assassination attempts and attacks against his character. this obviously shows that dream lied about not caring about anything, as he does care about his friends’ well-beings.

however, sapnap and george are disgusted by his actions, as they dislike the fact that dream had told such a bold, profound lie in the first place. they insist that he should have been honest, should have done the moral thing and just stuck up for george and found a different way to negotiate. when sapnap even finds out about george being dethroned, he’s at his side in an instant, ready to support him and defend him all while being honest and true to his friend.

these two actions immediately present two cases on what it means to protect someone.

sapnap and george believe that protecting someone entails sticking by their side through thick and thin no matter what, even if it means taking the hard way out. the means justify the ends.

dream believes that so long as that person remains safe and sound, it doesn’t matter what he has to do to ensure their security, even if that means he has to manipulate them, lie to them, and make them hate him. the ends justify the means.

george’s, sapnap’s, and dream’s views on kingship paired with their beliefs on what it means to protect someone have obviously created a rift between them, dividing them into two and one, ultimately increasing tensions within the smp by tenfold as dream slowly begins to lose his sphere of influence.

3) my conclusions

so, who do i think is in the right?

honestly, no one.

while i do agree with dream that the title of king is in itself pointless and that he’s ultimately just doing his best to ensure his friend’s safety, i cannot fully commit to his ideology. at the same time, i think that george and sapnap have a point with the fact that dream is disrespecting them, but i think that their views on kingship are rather silly.

relationships—platonic, romantic, familial, and et cetera—are two way paths. both ends need to be doing their fair share of the work. friends listen to each other, take each other’s perspectives into consideration. by effectively allowing himself to be hated by the other parties, dream is no longer defending a friendship. he is simply fighting to protect their lives, but not their interests. he is no longer listening, only doing what he thinks is best, and i cannot agree with that. i will, however, continue to stand firm on the fact that being king within the dream smp world amounts to nothing in terms of power, so i’m still utterly baffled why people are so greatly disturbed by george’s dethronement. is it the symbolism? the connotations of the action? who knows!

otherwise, this was a really fascinating step forward within the story! dream’s character has been developed to an almost astonishing degree. i can’t wait to see what happens next.

#mcyt #dream #dream mcyt #dream team #dream smp #georgenotfound #sapnap #dreamwastaken #belle babbles #ask #anon #dream smp spoilers #dream smp analysis #mcyt analysis #technoblade

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wickedpact · 4 years ago

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Dear Wicked: ok Tumblr ate my ask so hope I didn't send this twice. didn't know today's Shakespeare's birthday! To commemorate Shakespeare , would you kindly share you thoughts on which sonnets might Joe (very grudgingly) find to have some smidgen of artistic merit? (or actually any sonnets that you want to discuss. I love your sonnet annotation). Do you think Nicky still likes any of his plays after so many yrs? BTW your Python programming is some inspired poetic coding. - FY Anon

on the sonnets i like: my favorite sonnet (#20) is actually one that i find kind of cringey to read but i like it bc (imo) i think its the one that most explicitly proves that shakespeare’s feelings for the FY werent platonic. (soooooo many shakespeare enthusiasts try to claim that the relationship btwn the FY and willy boi was a ‘father-son’ relationship simply bc shakespeare tried to encourage the FY to get married, & bc theres no evidence of any sexual acts happening between them. how . ,. ... heterocentric imo)

but anyways,

A woman’s face with nature’s own hand painted, Hast thou, the master-mistress of my passion; A woman’s gentle heart, but not acquainted With shifting change, as is false women’s fashion

here shakespeare pretty extensively compares the FY to a woman. (you have a woman’s face, though not painted/artifical like most women’s, you have a woman’s ‘gentle heart’ but not a woman’s fickleness/falseness). theres a lot of ways you can interpret ‘master-mistress of my passion’ but allow us to continue before you come to any conclusions about that

And for a woman wert thou first created; Till Nature, as she wrought thee, fell a-doting, And by addition me of thee defeated, By adding one thing to my purpose nothing. But since she prick’d thee out for women’s pleasure, Mine be thy love and thy love’s use their treasure.

(Mother Nature initially made you as a woman, though as she was creating you, she fell in love with you. so she added one thing to you (a dick) and by doing so ‘defeated’ me. but since Mother Nature ‘prick’d thee out for woman’s pleasure’ --YES pun intended-- your love is mine and your female lovers get your dick/body)

im going to skip over all of the obvious sexism, heterocentrism and cis-centrism

personally i try to avoid applying labels to dead people (as labels are about self-identity! a man could have sex with ten thousand other men, and if he identifies as straight then im not gonna call him anything but. and dead people are too dead to identify with anything) but i think this poem really gives you a glimpse of how.. ... confused shakespeare was. this entire argument of ‘I love you but youre a man and therefore can only have sex with women’ is obviously very flawed in a lot of ways and probably explains how odd the way shakespeare speaks of the FY is.

is the situation ‘you are feminine therefore i find you desirable’? or is it ‘you are desirable and therefore i am viewing you through a lens of femininity because thats what i associate with desire’? i mean he even talks about mother nature ‘changing’ the FY to a man because she desired him-- and shakespeare does the same, but doing the opposite and viewing the FY through a lens of femininity. he seems to have this strict idea that sexual/romantic trysts can only happen in m/f pairs, so he hops back and forth between these almost-sexual and mostly-platonic sentiments for the FY in the same way he hops back and forth between viewing the FY as a masculine presence and a feminine one. the phrase ‘master-mistress of my passion’ seems to really exemplify this mind state. rip william.

in terms of sonnets joe likes, imo i think he would be more for the ones that arent about like. . .. marriage or jealousy. or both at the same time

this one is more just complimentary towards the FY rather than snide or commanding or jealous or.... just weird. (#105)

Kind is my love to-day, to-morrow kind, Still constant in a wondrous excellence; Therefore my verse to constancy confined, One thing expressing, leaves out difference. Fair, kind, and true, is all my argument, Fair, kind, and true, varying to other words; And in this change is my invention spent, Three themes in one, which wondrous scope affords. Fair, kind, and true, have often lived alone, Which three till now, never kept seat in one.

(my love is constantly kind, therefore my writing is confined to this constant thing. all i write about is fairness (as in beauty) kindness and trueness (as in faithfulness). the variety i use to talk about these three things is all i use my creativity/’invention’ for. until the FY, those three traits have never existed in one person at the same time)

this one is sweet imo, & i bet joe would just have to be like

#i like to imagine nicky looks back on shakespeare with a combination of exasperated fondness and embarassment #and also he likes to bring him up given any opprtunity to tease joe #nicky: oh joe look a compilation of williams sonnets--#joe: *Slaps That Shit Right Out Of Nickys Hands*#shakespeare anon #Anonymous

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waynedunlaptheorgandonor · 5 years ago

Text

ok, if i don’t write this im gonna lose my mind -cue dmx ‘party up’-

here is a ridiculously detailed analysis of why i am bordering on near certainty of caryl endgame, and how everything that’s been set up from the start of s9 (yes, even c@rzekiel and d@nnie) has been leading up to this

spoilers and long-winded analysis under the cut

let’s take this step-by-step, okay? starting with:

The Titles:

i have said this about a million times now, but the very first indication of caryl came from the new opening credits, where mmb’s name was very strategically placed above the graphic of daryl’s crossbow, what’s meant to symbolize henry’s pike, and a bunch of cherokee roses. it was foreshadowing, not only of henry’s death, but also how her relationship with daryl was going to unfold, and, bear with me here, the downfall of c@rzekiel. speaking of which, let’s go there

C@rzekiel:

i have also rambled about this, too, but the way that kang designed this relationship between zeke and carol was so brilliant, because it was never supposed to be real, but you weren’t able to fully see how until the whole story was laid out before us. (which goes with my belief that kang tells stories over long, connected archs, and not just “you know what would be fun to toss in here rn for some drama?”

carol

1. denied zeke’s proposal

2. never once told him she loved him

3. explicitly told those saviors she could have done without her ring (a line that had absolutely no need to be in there)

4. continuously rejected the title of queen

5. regularly visited daryl in the woods

6. said herself that all it was, was a fairytale. something i’ll delve into more when i talk about carol’s ptsd

but let me touch on how daryl plays into this. we know she regularly went out into the woods to be with daryl, and she did it because he was her tether back to reality. she was living a fantasy life, and knew deep down that it wasn’t real, but had to do it, for henry’s sake, and for the sake of her mental health, because at the time of the relationship, she had not remotely begun to deal with any of her grief

the first scene we get with her and zeke is directly after daryl saves zeke’s life, which is telling. and the first time we hear her talk about her feelings about zeke’s proposal she turned down it’s with daryl, and let us not forget that the script notes stated that daryl was experiencing jealousy about it. he never asked her not to, though, because he thought she was happy, and that was more important to him than her being with him. he was willing to give her up if it meant she was happy, like what kind of angst trope suffering is that?? -chefs kiss-

and we can’t forget that zeke canonically views daryl as a threat to his marriage (i mean, rightfully so). he literally tells daryl to back off his wife so that he can fix their marriage, because he knows carol is starting to go back to him

next!

flowers:

flowers have been being used as symbolism between these two across the past two seasons a bunch. flowers are in mmb’s title card. the first scene of carol/daryl in the time jump shows them seeing flowers. daryl brings carol a flower on the dinner tray. one of the upcoming episodes is “look at the flowers”. obviously the cherokee rose scene is iconic between them, and flowers to carol represent this weird dichotomy. on the one hand, they represent daryl comforting her and giving her hope, and on the other hand, they represent her downfall mentally from the grove. interesting that one of the threads throughout this current season is carol grappling between trying to stay grounded with daryl, and her losing herself to her grief

speaking of grief!

Carol’s PTSD:

people have bitched that kang is just telling carol’s same storyline all over again, to which i’m like, tf show are you watching?? here’s what kang has done. gimple dealt with carol by literally just locking her away in a house to mull over how terrible she is a person, while never once actually dealing with her grief, and then handed that over to kang as a boiling slop of diarrhea, and somehow kang managed to take that, perform alchemy, and turn it into delicious loving carol juice.

she had henry killed off to parallel sophia, yes, that’s true, but the /reason/ she did that is because she’s righting the wrongs that were done to carol by essentially rewriting her storyline the way it should have gone. carol has lost So Much. more than most, i think, and kang is like, “that would fuck someone up pretty fucking bad, i think, so let’s see her actually have to grapple with that.” kang stays true to the carol gimple created, in that her instinct is to run away (think boat), but she’s using daryl as a means of forcing her to confront her demons. the two of them, at any given time, are running away from their struggles, but daryl is finally at a place of stability, and so he’s taking carol by the hand and saying, “no. i’m not letting you do this again. you have to stay,” and carol does, because she loves him, but consequently she’s having to actually feel it (something she explicitly stated she “can’t let herself do”), and is now experiencing the consequences of it, and poor daryl is stuck trying to handle it. his entire plotline this season has revolved around trying to help carol heal her wounds so that they can finally be together the way they should have been ten years ago.

they should be together, and daryl shouldn’t be with anyone else? glad you asked, because that brings us to:

D@nnie:

i actually think that kang never meant to make daryl/connie a ship, bc nothing in season 9 really indicated anything more than a mutual respect, and part of me truly believes that she saw the reaction to the two of them, and was like, “you know what? i can work with this.”

carol is pushing daryl towards connie because she wants to take alpha down and knows she might go down with her and she needs to know daryl won’t be alone. that’s it. period. end of sentence.

but okay, let’s extrapolate. she asks him if he’s interested in connie, and daryl very, very bluntly says no. you can’t tell me that his answer was meant to be evasive. he delivered that line like straight up “no.” no room for debate about his feelings. if they wanted to leave room for doubt they would have had norman redo his delivery, because it is too obvious. he is shutting it down completely. and carol is like, “why not?” and /that’s/ when daryl gets evasive. very “don’t worry about it, why are you worrying about it, i’m not in love with you, shut up.”

fucking kills me, guys.

now the current spoilers about carol telling daryl to get angry at her for (supposedly/probably) killing connie furthers this belief that she wants daryl to pull away from her. because he’s her tether, she loves him, and as long as he still wants her around she can’t leave. she wants him to hate her, and daryl refuses. he’s pissed as all get out about what she did, sure, but he doesn’t hate her. also, the idea that daryl going back to try and save connie and magna means he’s in love with connie is absolutely baffling. have you met daryl? his instinct is to save people at all costs. he wouldn’t leave his friends stuck in a fucking cave, are you serious? just because connie is a woman doesn’t mean daryl wants to fuck her. he’s allowed to care about his friends.

but anyway, the point here is that every “d@nnie” spoiler has been music to my ears, bc not once has it been actually shippy. that first episode with the asl book and them together? it was supposed to juxtapose zeke and carol, and how carol and daryl immediately forgot about connie and zeke in order to be with each other. every other thing with connie has either been very cute and platonic, or has been carol trying to push her on daryl. -chefs kiss- my dudes, you’re worrying about nothing

Misc bc I’m Late for Work:

here are just a handful of other indicators that caryl is on the horizon

-the dream where she dreams she’s MARRIED TO DARYL, and the scenes where she wakes up in bed and looks over and he’s not there. why set that up if the end result isn’t going to be them together in bed?

-the bracelet/the acorns and what they symbolize

-the use of “we” (”we don’t sleep” “it was like that for us before all of this” “since when have we never been enough?” etc)

-their parallels to alpha/beta (see my other long-winded text post on that one)

-ten years worth of history between them!!! that kang understands and references (carol’s claustrophobic, look at the flowers, etc)

so anyway, i don’t have time to tie this up with a nice bow bc i really have to get to work, but this is all to say that i am very very confident about the caryl endgame. i think it’s being drawn out bc kang needs to right the wrongs done by gimple first, but that caryl is where she’s eventually headed. every spoiler has been 100% caryl positive to me. i am zen af, and i think you should be too.

i’ll add to this if i think of anything i missed, but here you go. caryl is endgame and they gon fuck

the end,

-diz

#caryl #caryl spoilers #twd s10 spoilers #dunlap tp

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weeweewuxian · 6 years ago

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Thoughts on CQL drama

So I know that while everyone is glad CQL turned out better than expected (and some hate it), I feel like I should voice a few opinions of my own while I’m at this. I’m really glad at all the backstories given to each side character that we’ve all always wanted more development more, but as a wangxian fan for a long time now, I feel like this might either be a good or bad thing for my favourite duo and couple. I’m personally afraid this adaption is easy to ruin the original appeal of wangxian to me---turning them into the typical BL couple.

While we do get cute wangxian scenes, what made me love them wasn’t only because they’re a good couple, but also because of their individual traits and characteristics, of having similar ideals and cored that drew them to each other. I fear that these ‘cute wangxian scenes’ would turn LWJ into a typical ML who’s entire focus was on WWX, but that is not the case—we all should also pay attention to LWJ when he’s struggling to come to terms with his uncle and brother, and how he defies them NOT because of WWX, but because he thinks it’s the right thing to do and he’s simply saving a friend when he saw the possibility. Remember that it doesn’t have to be WWX. It could’ve been anyone and LWJ would have done the save regardless. WWX just happens to be the one unfortunate soul.

Despite LWJ’s focus on WWX was more openly obvious in the show. We do see that despite hurting his foot, he stood up to MianMian. Despite having gotten the goddess, LWJ was the first to realize that WQ was lying, and he could not have known if he doesn’t pay attention to her. He saved Su She on his own accord while defying LQR, which is an event that isn’t related to WWX at all. In the scene where he left WWX sleeping on the roof in the Unclean Realm, he left because his sect and family was in danger. WWX, JC, and NHS are basically safe with NMJ around, so in a way LWJ knows and weighed the importance before he left them. LWJ is still is own human being. He knew that his family needed him more that timie so he left. He even chastised WWX when WWX was being insufferable about how he got involved in demonic cultivation and forced him to sit down and tell him everything and made him swear up and down that he would allow him to help him. That’s what true friends should do.

I’m super glad that LWJ gets so much more development that was obvious to the eye. For me, those traits are long in his character. They simply didn’t get flesh out well enough for enough reader to pick it up from the novels or donghua. What I love about CQL!LWJ is that he learns to speak for himself. He is more vocal about his thoughts. He fights for his own right as a person and not his sect’s or someone else’s puppet that is convenient for manipulation. He supports WWX because WWX is right. There is no justice and ‘peace’ within the cultivation world is meaningless if JGS carries on acting like he is the replacement of the Wen Sect. These are all things that weren’t shown novel or donghua obviously. So I appreciate it. As long as you don’t invest 100% of your focus on only wangxian moments it’s not difficult to see at all.

The content is there. It’s just whether people care to acknowledge it.

As for WWX, I know people are mad that WWX seems to have a crush at first sight on LWJ. To me, WWX might have an immediate liking for LWJ at first, but WWX still is not blinded by love. WWX left JC, JYL, and JFM simply because he knew LWJ was alone in the quest of the Yin Metal. WWX did not leave them because of LWJ. WWX left them because it was the Yin Metal & LWJ wasn’t simply going on any usual quest. WWX swore an oath to LQR and LXC that he wouldn’t tell anyone, and he kept his promise. He went after LWJ because he was the only one who knew about the Yin Metal and how dangerous it is, and he felt responsible for knowing that LWJ, a 15-17 year old boy, is alone on such a dangerous quest. As they say, not knowing is not a crime, but it’s a crime if you knew and ignored it. That’s why WWX went after him. When the fall of Lotus Pier occurred, during their escape, WWX constantly mentions that he wants to bring them to Lanling so they can reunite with LWJ there. It’s obvious he wants to see LWJ as soon as possible (yes you cant deny he’s biased) but you also couldn’t deny that WWX later puts off his own trip to Lanling because he wants to remain behind and give him core with JC. This shows that despite WWX’s obvious desires, he is willing to set LWJ aside first and places JC, his family, as his priority. For the very obvious and similar reason why LWJ left him before: his family needed him at that time more then LWJ did. That’s why WWX remained behind and set JYL ahead to Lanling. When WQ asked WWX for help, WWX did not even hesitate to go full out for her. WWX might have a crush for LWJ at first, but currently it’s been set aside for now so he could save lives. He isn’t even completely sure if LWJ sees him the same way he did with him, so naturally WWX prioritizes lives of people who helped him before in the past and puts his love life and interest aside. He still retains friendship and hospitality to LWJ, as he wasn’t hostile to him and was still willing to speak and reason with LWJ. It shows that WWX is kind of like a “You’re a good person, and I really like you. But right now there is something more important I need to do. The right thing, but I don’t want to drag you with me into something Im not sure if I can fix.” Mood. He asked LWJ whether what he does is right—but doesn’t force LWJ to come with him, because WWX knows that the path he chose might be a path with no chance of returning.

Ultimately, whether those actions are ‘gay’ or not is entirely up to the fans to interpret. It can be heavily platonic, or it can be not. The show did not explicitly advertise them as a couple (we know it’s because of censorship) but that’s also the truth. At some point whatever headcanons or views you have of CQL’s LWJ and WWX are mostly because of your own interpretation of them.

While I do like them as a couple and partners, I feel like it’s important to acknowledge their quality as also individual characters. LWJ and WWX both weights their priorities. While they are obviously attracted and fond of each other and did not like being apart, they know when other things mean more than themselves and acts accordingly. They’re both very fierce and stalwart. And I think that alone is beautiful.

#lan wangji #chen qing ling #the untamed #wei wuxian

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bladekindeyewear · 6 years ago

Text

Boots reads Homestuck Epilogue(s) Part 5 - Meat Page 7

==>

Okay, time for Rose and Dirk to talk delicious politics or something.

Heh, customary show-end riots.

Rose, stop causing all of us undue alarm.

Ascending? Is she going to fade out into a concept or something???

Oh shit, Dirk’s doing something similar. Some sort of inevitability once God-Tier is reached or some such.

Dirk has a solution to the problem in the works. That’s... well, Rose already cautioned that that could be ominous. I hope it doesn’t involve decapitation. Or robot bodies, or turning her into an omniscient cueball or something.

==>

Okay, stage play time. I can see a weird-seeming text color choice for Caliborn down below, hm. Time to read down to there...

Ah, the classic finale-callback thumbs down. Nice.

...yeah, reinforcing the point he was trying to make a little less explicitly with his earlier finale of Homestuck that Lord English had really just, sort of, trapped them in this narrative that their ultimate reward would be to escape, realizing it never really mattered too much compared to their own long lives and happiness or something.

==>

Epilogue TWO?????? D:

Okay now it’s, like, Andrew commenting isn’t it.

Oh shit, it DOES suck them up and trap them? Huh. That explains how Jade was dealt with, I’d forgotten. Also because it was one of the huge goddamn unanswered fucking hugepoints that made it seem like a slap in the face when we were told it didn’t matter and-- yeah okay let me just keep reading.

Huh, broken glasses.

And, phew; the ages it takes is from an OUTSIDE perspective. Let’s see what it is from an inside perspective...

==>

Jaaaane!!! :D

Okay let’s read about Janey.

Mhmm, that’s not that surprising... Dirk knew that Karkat was going to run against Jane, but Jane didn’t, even though Dirk was ostensibly “working” for her. There’s definitely a plan here. Maybe it involves Jane and Karkat smooching publicly at the end. ...No, that’s just my wishful imagination talking, isn’t it.

Oh my god she’s screaming into a pillow at hearing she has competition. That’s adorable.

YES, JANE. UNDERESTIMATE KARKAT. YOU WILL FALL IN LOVE WITH HIM LIKE EVERYONE ELSE (though probably platonically). It does upset me that they’ve taken this long to really get acquainted, though; I’ve argued for years that their personalities are naturally compatible as the straight men for all their friends’ bullshit.

In fact, Jane is pretty sure that Karkat Vantas would probably literally burst into flame if too many people happened to look at him at the same time, like a vampire walking out into the sun.

Yes, but he’d get over it. And be a flaming president or something.

In fact, Jane cannot remember a single conversation she’s ever had with him that wasn’t about the economy. She thinks back to one time at John’s eighteenth birthday when Dave engaged her in a rigorous and rather one-sided debate about deregulation and the failure of “neoliberal austerity measures” until Karkat had to come over and put his hands over his roommate’s mouth to make him stop talking.

Oh my FUCKING god, it’s true. Dave’s appropriately liberal in the modern, Krugman-esque, statistically grounded way. Karkat has my vote already.

She’d be happy to accept a graceful, temporary defeat and let Karkat play president for a couple of years. After all, unlike her, he was not immortal.

Hey fuck you. Also, why the FUCK haven’t they used one of the myriad likely ways to extend Karkat’s lifespan basically indefinitely yet??? Heck, JANE could probably do it with Life powers if she crawled back out of her own butt! We already know the Condesce could extend other trolls’ lifespans with weird troll powers so Life powers are almost certainly enough to suffice. >:(

Ohhh, so maybe Jane is just, like... slightly traumatized by trolls? And thus a little tiny bit predisposed against trusting them cause of the Condesce? :(

Interesting how she views her past reliance on / pursuance of Jake as something that made her “weak” specifically.

Okay, I’m getting a slightly uncomfortable vibe that Jane is willing to almost play at seduction with Jake falsely to get his endorsement on--

And she’s willing to do more than that, too.

Okay FUCK, JANE. GET YOURSELF UNDER CONTROL. I’m starting to believe the shittalking the others have given about you! You’d better shape up by the end of this epilogue or what have you.

==>

Okay, trapped John can hear the other three through the walls of their prison or something.

Conversation and musings, conversation and musings.....

Wait, Jade LIVES with Dave and Karkat in that SAME HOUSE and they didn’t even mention it??!?? What is even up with their thing.

Heh, John’s thinking he really could have used a nice kismesis riling him up to better himself. That’s what they’re for, really.

There there, John.

==>

Oh my fucking GOD, Jane rolls with supply side economics??? TAKE. HER. DOWN.

And Jade is just... here? Huh.

Yeah they DEFS weren’t listening.

JADE: especially when JADE: there are much better things we could all be doing with our mouths.....

HOLY SHIT. HOLY SHIT. JADE IS SO INTO EITHER OF THEM THAT THEY CAN’T TAKE IT, CAN THEY. THAT’S FUCKING AMAZING OH MY GOD

Her tail swishes from side to side

SINCE WHEN DOES SHE HAVE A FUCKING TAIL HOW IS THAT SUDDENLY CANON

I’M NOT MAD IM JUST SURPRISED

Wasn’t that something that the ask-responses from Andrew said she canonically DIDN’T have or what the fuck

Since I guess it wasn’t confirmed IN CANON he just decided he liked it enough to offer it here or???? I DON’T KNOW????

Wow why am I all worked up by this all of a sudden. It’s just transferring from her earlier line isn’t it.

three of her bras

Okay no nevermind Andrew’s just fucking with us.

...Even though this can probably still be considered canon. Which only makes how he’s fucking with us work even better, really. I mean, why WOULDN’T he lob this at us on the ten year anniversary and watch us squirm, really. There’s no incentive not to.

--oh wait wait never mind reading further these are just bras from different days she threw over the couch. PHEW. I thought for a second that we were dealing with dog anatomy stuff that would REQUIRE multiple bras on her. Jesus. I wonder if Andrew intentionally phrased things so some people would think that for a minute.

JADE: also you know trolls dont actually have two dicks dave thats an offensive stereotype

Pffffff

Wait, is it that Dave and Karkat’s relationship isn’t quite full-hearts sexual and Jade is incessantly shipping them?? :O

because that’d be hilarious too?? --*reads*

YESSSS JADE BEING SUPER STAT WHIZ WITH HER SUPER PARTOMNIDOG SPACE BRAIN YES

The thing about Jade Harley is that she’s not as good at personal things as she is at other things. Like science, or mastering fraymotifs, or kissing, the last of which she has definitely put a lot of levels into over the past few years because, well, what else are you supposed to do with immortal godhood once you hit the age where the dog hormones start kicking into overdrive?

f uck

dog hormones

i’m wheezing

Alright, Jade’s springing a thorough relationship talk on them. That’s cool. Also she’s throwing statistics in there and I LOVE that now that Jade is older we’re reinforcing just how scary science smart she is, I can’t wait to see other people roleplaying her properly because of it too.

...Yeah Jade would definitely date a chess couple

Jade sighs and crawls closer. She takes one of Karkat’s hands in hers.

JADE: i think wed all work good together

AAAAAAAA :D :D :D

JADE: and i think weve been dancing around that for years now JADE: i wanna try dating for real KARKAT: HAVE YOU EVER CONSIDERED KARKAT: SORRY IF WHAT I’M ABOUT TO SAY TOTALLY BLOWS YOUR MIND KARKAT: DATING A SINGLE PERSON, FOR MORE THAN HALF A SWEEP, FOR REASONS OTHER THAN INITIATING THE CONCUPISCENT EXCHANGE OF FLUIDS?

PFFFFFFFFFFFFF OH MY FUCKING GOD THIS IS PERFECT

Jade being

literally the thirstiest person in this ENTIRE CAST OF CHARACTERS

to the point that everyone’s calling her out on it

in something that’s virtually goddamn canon

holy fucking shit I love everything. I love life. Living in a universe where this hilarious shit happens is fun.

....pFFFF JADE DIDN’T KNOW OBAMA WAS REAL THIS IS AMAZING

Ooh, dueling god-tier powers for petty reasons.

OH NO DICK DRAWINGS ARE LIKELY IMMINENT

THAT OR A CHART

OR BOTH

...yeah her hair would get everywhere, wouldn’t it.

yes make fun of ship names some more

What Jade leaves in her wake is not quite the emotional scorched-earth situation that she was going for, but a few of her needles have definitely gotten under some skin. Dave and Karkat both stare after her, silently caught in their own private rationalization spirals.

So this whole time Jade’s been all “JUST KISS ALREADY” and they’ve been all “what no” and now she’s just laid it all out in the open and left them to it. Yeah that sounds about like what would’ve happened.

Aaaand of course, since this is Dave and Karkat, they just choose to stall some more and play video games. Jade really DOES complete this relationship with her pushing them to accept reality and stop downplaying their own feelings and self-esteem and all. But that’s what I thought would happen BEFORE I even read any epilogue stuff so I’m biased.

==>

Pff, Vriska time.

You’ve now got two bitches of either gender at your side

Vriska, shame! Don’t use that kind of language!!

Yep, this version of her didn’t learn her lesson and is still pretty much completely delusional.

Alright, Real Terezi™ is still flying out in the abyss trying to scoop Vriska out of this jam, cool, cool.

Flailing and spinning, screaming, not being able to see the final event or whatever-- someone save her already we know it’s gonna happen!

JOHN: Emerge from the juju.

Oh. Well, that’s uncomfortably in line with earlier presumably-discredited theories. About John saving Vriska from the black hole the Green Sun left in its wake and all. :|

Yawns too wide and snaps in half? The moment he was dreaming about?

==>

Oh hai Jake. This really IS the perfect time to get to see some attempted-exploitative discomfort between Jane and you. I mean that! The narrative timing is pretty hilarious.

The sunset has turned the head offices of Crockercorp into a shimmering glass monolith—a beacon, if you will, of the future, visible for miles in every direction.

Jane probably likes to think about it that way at least.

Wow, Jane REALLY sounds like she needs to be knocked down a peg or seven.

The whole place is candlelit, and Jane is reclining on her desk, sprawled out like a lounge singer on a grand piano.

OH MY FUCKING GOD JANE STOP BEING A SLIMEBAG!!!! D: D: D:

Thank you, Jake, for coming through and tanking this.

This is not really the kind of conversation you initiate if you’re looking to extract a sexual deal out of someone. It is, however, the kind of conversation that you might have with a childhood friend who has become somewhat emotionally estranged from you.

THANK FUCKING GOD. Jane has been saved from herself for the moment.

Okay I see a whole bunch of paragraphs of black text down below just as these two are likely coming together for a kiss. Uh oh.

...Yep, kiss there. And, uh...

Okay whew, most of it is Jake privately soliloquy-ing to the narrative about the circumstances leading up to this. I can deal with that.

...Oh my god he keeps thinking of Dirk while getting in close to Jane. This is gonna blow up in his face isn’t it.

Reading on....

--Ah, yeah, he just realizes he’s more into Dirk I guess. Ouch. Ouch, Jane.

DIRK: Were you nice to him? JANE: Well, I... DIRK: I told you, you can’t be nice to Jake. JANE: ...

PPFffffffffff

DIRK: Why don’t you leave Jake to me?

Now ain’t that telling?

Ooh, getting down to plot business with Rose.

==>

Back to John. I see a bit that says “Listen” there, is he going to hear Vriska screaming? Or is Terezi going to pick her up? Since, like, I mean she has the jetpack and has been searching for her longer and stuff.

Yep, big ol’ LE tantrum. Though alt!Calliope seems at least as much at fault for the end of the universe as him, if not moreso.

Ah, right, Andrew wanted us to THINK he’d hear Vriska screaming just so he could troll us like that. Makes more sense, anyway.

Huh, the Juju just pops away.

OW. Down a spare Rose, just like that, huh? Probably part of why main Rose knew what the plan was supposed to be for all this.

Ah right, can’t use your Green Sun powers here, Jade.

OW. Another quasi-doomed side-character death.

Yep, you have to make a tough, leaderly decision and let go. :C --Oh crap, you saved her body. Are you gonna put the ring there or what, I’m not sure where that’s going plotways.

Pff, the whole fight going south just due to John losing his glasses... that’s pretty funny from a perspective.

Oh huh, real ghost Tavros gets nuked.

Oh shit, Meenah’s going in! Don’t die, I actually care about this version of you!!

--Ah, thrown out and fate unclear, that’s a bit better than clear death.

Hm, Davepeta vs English round two? I wonder what the purpose of all of this really is, anyway, beyond just a sense that some only implied-wrapped-up things are being actually wrapped up? This whole Meat arc? Is Candy going to be ultimately more important to everyone, as was part of the point, or? Huhhm.

Final Round!!

Hammer buffet!

Slight obligatory feelings allusion via hammer!

Oh no! VORE!!! D:

DAVEPETASPRITE^2: B33 < wrow you almost got vored to death

Phew, avoided

Ow, another decapitation. There’s a killing blow and being trapped forever in a black hole for LE to look forward to, though. Weren’t there theories about him being trapped forever at the center of that black hole or whatever? Huh. I mean there WAS the garbage disposal that his metaphorical Jigsaw-head gets stuck in early in the comic after all.

Alright, Davepeta sticks him in there? Cool.

Yeah, you just had to remind us that he’s going to be plunging into his dead sister’s gaping hole, didn’t you? >:|

Davepeta. How they were so unfettered and brave. How they sacrificed themselves by flying right into the black hole like...

Like a fucking piece of garbage, you can almost hear Dave saying. May God rest his soul.

Yup. Closing another callback. Why is it silent, though? Did the black hole stop sucking now that it’s gotten almost everything but John, or is it just his blackout? I mean, is the end of everything just a thing that “happens” (which is still pretty fine, Paradox Space had a pretty good run), or did it just stop, or is it yet to be resolved or re-John-creates-Paradox-Space’s-beginning-because-hes-the-only-thing-left-constituted if he inexplicably doesn’t die from his heroic wounds or? And Terezi definitely didn’t go flying around Paradox Space’s dying remains just to get sucked in too, right? I definitely haven’t seen the whole picture yet I guess.

==>

Alright, back to Rose... actually this post’s getting long so I’ll cut here and keep going in another post.

#Homestuck #Homestuck Epilogue #upd8 #Homestuck Liveblog #bladekindeyewear #BlastYoBoots

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