#''but trans men were lesbians'' ''many lesbians were bi'' ''sappho loved men''

[allow-me-to-ruin-that-for-you-2]

Infodump time part 2 ( I told you not to indulge me )

Time for lesbian flags history!!!

Ok SO idk if you know this but this

Is the labrys flag. It was created by a gay man in 1999, but the symbols in it were being used by lesbians for decades, sometimes centuries before. It has really cool meanings! The color purple is used by the saphic sommunity, as you may know, because of Sappho, who used to give purple flowers to her lovers. If I'm not wrong, in the 1950s lesbians and wlw in general were excluded from one of the first internacional feminist meetings, called the lavender menace, and accused of being a threat to the movement. In the labrys flag we also have the black triangle which is to represent the saphics and feminists who were murdered during the holocaust ( the triangles were their organization system, black for feminists and sapphics, pink for gay man, red for Jewish ppl, etc). The black and pink triangles were both widely used by the lgbt movement as resignified symbols. Nevertheless, they are no longer being used, and out of respect for Jewish sapphics there's now a version of the sapphic flag without the black triangle.

Then we get to the main symbol : the labrys ax itself!! It is said to have been a symbol of goodness Artemis, protecter of children and women. As a sapphic symbol it's very strong and one of my favorite things! ( I have labrys earrings )

Now, there's also the lipstick lesbian flag, which I hate and it's terrible! Created by a transphobe, racist, biphobic person and the concept of lipstick lesbian itself was not created by the community but by men who sexualized lesbians.

Nevertheless, from it came the sunset flag, which has really cool meanings, is super duper cute and awesome!!

There's also the sapphics community flag, but unfortunately I don't have much research done on that one. :(

There's so much more I know and I love to share!! And I LOVE lgbt history!!! If you have any fun facts or stories please share them! Sjjdndbs

I actually just learned about the lipstick flag and it’s creator unfortunately but it didn’t know about the history of the labrys flag or the symbolism of the sunset flag!

And you asked so here’s some random queer facts:

The bi flag was originally designed by Michael Page in 1998 with pink at the top representing women, royal blue on the bottom representing men, and lavender purple in the middle representing the combination of the attraction to the two (although many bisexuals date outside of that pool) and it’s intention was to a) bring more eyes to bisexuality and b) to start a Bisexual Visibility Day, which was made September 23 the following year.

In 2009, Rachel Crandell got on Facebook and started Trans Visibility Day on her own, and so now every year on March 31st trans and gender non-conforming people’s voices and we are able to further bring up issues that endanger our lives.

That’s all I have for now, but I did just wake up.

[hydrostorm]

(cw) i lied about no discourse..

theres just so much fallacy from what I've seen about "m/spec" l/esbian d/iscourse, first that nonbinary people "should be included" in lesbianism as if nb people haven't always been a part of lesbianism both historically as the term found its place in lgbt and up to now where nonbinary lesbians have basically always been a thing, and whenever it goes into the territory of whether men should be included in lesbianism i always just respond with a resounding Lesbianism Should Not Be About Or Involve Men In Any Way

tags important

[hms-chill]

Hii! I see you've read RWRB (which means you obviously have impeccable taste) and was wondering if you could recommend any more LGBTQ+ books? Thank you!!

OH MY GOD I HAVE SO MANY!! It really depends on what genre you’re interested in and what you like; I’ll sort of try to break it down that way (and not just rec every gay book I’ve ever read lmao)

General fiction:

 Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe by Benjamin Alire Saenz is about two Mexican boys growing up in El Paso in the late 1980s and the writing style is absolutely incredible. It was the first Gay Book(tm) I remember and I spent months of 2012-2013 trying to find a copy and it was 100% worth it.

Simon Vs. the Homo Sapien Agenda by Becky Albertalli. We know it, we love it, I wanted to include it anyway.

The Gentleman’s Guide to Vice and Virtue by Mackenzie Lee is a historical fiction (leaning on fantasy) romp about a boy in the 18th century going on his grand tour with the best friend he’s in love with; the sequel stars his aro/ace sister. Bi lead, Black gay love interest, and a sequel about the importance of girl friendships.

I’m on page four of Gail Wilhelm’s Torchlight to Valhalla but I love the writing style and the fact that it’s a lesbian book from 1938 that apparently ends happily almost made me cry so there’s that.

anything by Virginia Woolf, but especially Orlando, which is a love letter to her girlfriend.

Soft Place to Fall by Ba Tortuga is a fun gay cowboy romance; it’s dumb and sappy and predictable and fantastic.

Sci-Fi / Fantasy

THIS IS WHERE I THRIVE this is my wheelhouse so sorry if I get carried away lol

anything by Sarah Gailey. Their Upright Women Wanted is about queer librarian spies in a futuristic wild west. The American Hippo series (River of Teeth and Taste of Marrow) is about queer hippo wranglers in an alternate 19th century. Magic for Liars is a murder mystery set in a magic school, perfect if you’re trying to ditch She Who Must Not Be Named but still want your fun magic school itch scratched.

Nottingham by Anna Burke is a lesbian retelling of Robin Hood; I’m still working through it but I’m pretty sure all the merry men are queer women and I couldn’t be happier about it.

Cemetery Boys by Aiden Thomas is absolutely fantastic; it’s got an entirely Latinx cast with a trans lead and a ghost love interest; 15/10 almost made me cry.

Six of Crows by Leigh Bardugo has that casual queer rep that I absolutely adore. Like yeah sometimes you need a book about Being Queer but sometimes you also need a heist where the badass gunslinger casually goes “oh yeah not just girls” and steals a tank, you know?

This is very I’m A Child Of The Late 90s/ Early 2000s but Tamora Pierce was huge for me growing up. She clearly stuffed as many queer characters into her world as publishers would let her, and recently she’s confirmed fan theories about even more queerness (ace/aro characters, trans readings, etc) in her work.

Ursula K. Le Guin’s The Left Hand of Darkness was published in 1969 and treats gender as a fluid thing; I haven’t read it yet but it’s on my bedside table and I’m very excited to get to it.

Poetry

all of it straight people don’t get poems

Badger Clark was a gay cowboy poet; I love his stuff so much. “The Westerner” made me absolutely feral and “Others” gutted me.

Wilfred Owen is best known for his work about WWI, but “Maundy Thursday” and “How Do I Love Thee” are absolutely incredible.

Whitman wrote poems about being gay and was one of the more iconic queer voices of the 19th century, at least in literary circles.

Byron was an icon and also incredibly queer.

Sappho is the iconic one; Anne Carson’s translation of her work (If Not, Winter) is fantastic and the one I’d personally recommend.

Classics

If you’re down to read between the lines do I have some books for you

Stoker was gay (and wrote thirsty letters to Whitman), and no one can convince me that Dracula is a straight book. Arthur and Quincey were dating thank you for coming to my TEDx talk.

The Iliad is long and complex but also Achilles and Patroclus wanted their ashes mixed when they died (fellas...)

anything by Wilde but especially A Portrait of Dorian Gray.

Les Miserables has a character who “admired, loved, and venerated” another man, and who “took great care not to believe in anything” but said other man (fellas...). There’s also an entire page about how the lead has never felt any form of love other than familial (fellas... is it aro to spend a whole page talking about how you’ve never loved anyone).

I haven’t read Moby Dick but I know there’s like three pages about how much the narrator loves his crewmate (fellas...)

Nonfiction

A lot of people are scared of nonfic but I’m gonna let you in on a secret: you don’t have to read the whole book. Pick and choose chapters that interest you, put it down for a year, whatever. Nonfic’ll be there for you.

Portrait of a Marriage by Nigel Nicolson is a look into his parents’ open relationship and his mother’s relationship with Virginia Woolf; it’s a gorgeous exploration of the various ways that love and marriage can be flexible and it changed how I look at relationships.

A Queer History of the United States by Michael Bronski is a good intro to queer history.

We Are Everywhere by Matthew Riemer and Leighton Brown is a great look at the Stonewall Era and the time after especially, and it’s full of incredible pictures. They also run @/lgbt_history on insta and 10/10 for that.

Love and Resistance: Out of the Closet and Into the Stonewall Era by Jason Baumann is fantastic too; it’s got pictures and short descriptions of what’s happening in them. Maybe not a first place, but if you know the general scope of the queer rights movement it’s a fantastic thing (or if you don’t and you’re ready to google lmao).

My Dear Boy or anything else by Rictor Norton is incredible. My Dear Boy is a collection of gay love letters; he’s also got books on queer culture in 18th century London and queering the Gothic. You can find a lot of his stuff online here and My Dear Boy specifically here.

If you want more/ something more specific, don’t hesitate!! I work in a library and I’m always finding new gay stuff and I love it.

[cuntess-carmilla]

The thing about the toothpaste flag (that shitty recolor of the lesbian flag) that some mostly white gay men are claiming as their own, is white gay men act like they're the most creative and innovative people in the world and then pull shit like that, always on the backs of wlw, trans women, and gay moc.

(Almost?) all the actually innovative and amazing things coming from "gay culture" (quote marks because there’s no UNIVERSAL gay culture; race, ethnicity and location change things) either comes from gays of color, or actually comes from trans women (also often trans woc at that, especially Black ones), and tbh many times also Jewish gays and trans women regardless of their race.

Then there's how much these white (and often gentile) gay men straight up steal the creative efforts of wlw or demand that the creative efforts by us include THEM, as if they ever did the same for us and as if we ever demanded the same from them. Such as the dudes who DEMAND angrily that things created by wlw MUST include them too. Like, these dudes demand from independent online wlw artists (such as my friend @orquidia) to draw mlm content when they're artists who've expressed, time and time again, that they make SAPPHIC art. Like, my friend Iv is bi, drawing m/f romance art is more personally relevant to them than content about only dudes lol.

But no, we must ALWAYS cater to them. When have they catered to us, though? Imagine if we went around behaving the same way.

The male entitlement is so bad that when wlw started making fucking moodboards for fun FOR OURSELVES dudes were ENRAGED that WE weren't making moodboards for THEM as if it was so fucking hard to just fucking copy our ideas themselves as they always do. But no, WE somehow were responsible that there weren’t fucking moodboards for them! Because they still see women as owing our labor to them! Incredible.

Same with shit like when the reclamation of "sapphic" became more popular and they were like QUICK, WE NEED OUR VERSION OF THAT and made up "achillean" which makes no fucking sense since it lacks the historical value of "sapphic" and Achilles wasn't even a real person. "Sapphic" was originally used to medicalize and brutalize wlw. WE didn't make up "sapphic", cishets made it up to insult and marginalize us and we reclaimed it centuries after it stopped being commonly used in that way. Not to mention, Sappho was an actual real fucking person. "Achillean" is literally QUICK, WE NEED A NEW SLUR THAT MIRRORS THE GIRLS'.

There's a reason most of the dudes using it are white. This obsession modern and usually younger AND WHITE gay and bi dudes have with being a perfect "male reflection" of lesbians and bi women is soooooo white gender binary.

You don't have to be! You can and SHOULD develop your own cultural elements independent from us, or if you’re gonna create things that have relation to us, it should be an organic result of you BEING IN COMMUNITY WITH US, like femme/butch was (which regarding its use in the ballroom scene, happened in Black and Latine LGBT communities, which isn’t surprising as LGBT poc tend to be less stupidly separatist).

But so many of you refuse to even consider us wlw as Actually Gay, even those of us who're lesbians (by the way, you shouldn't do it to bi women either), let alone to consider us as a valuable and important part of your communities. If you bitches thought of us as Actually Gay you wouldn’t constantly accuse wlw who so much as accidentally glance upon mlm media, of fetishizing you EVEN WHEN IT COMES TO LESBIANS LIKE COME ON, WE DON’T WANT YOU (let me repeat, still not ok and still stupid regarding bi women, they can and do relate to gay content in general because they’re a type of gay woman!).

You go so far to not consider us Actually Gay that you act like we face no violence, like corrective rape is "just" because we're women and has nothing to do with homophobia and thus it doesn't count as homophobic violence so wlw are still “privileged”, as if misogyny wasn't an INTENSIFIER of homophobia. Don’t get me started on how you all act regarding ~representation~, or, ykw? I will start.

You all act like there's more wlw representation in media than mlm representation when 1) that's verifyingly false, and ours mostly happens in fucking cartoons only, 2) the wlw rep in mainstream media is MOSTLY CREATED BY WLW OURSELVES after fighting for DECADES for our content to not be censored, both as creators and as fans. And you act like it's a privilege? We fought so hard to get scraps, and that’s a privilege to you. You disregard even our most defanged activism and believe we were gifted wlw rep because society loves us THAT MUCH in your eyes! We didn’t FIGHT for it, it was handed to us on a silver plate.

Did you see how much we campaigned for Harley Quinn (questionable a show as it is) to get a 3rd season just so we could actually see Harley and Ivy be an established couple, after the comics 100% erased their relationship, and you call that we got it PRIVILEGED? HQ is one of DC’s most successful pieces of media and according to the creators themselves it’s actually very fucking cheap to make, and it was still not certain that we were going to get a 3rd fucking season when, had it been a show just as profitable with a straight main couple you KNOW that would’ve been a given.

Even you boys' "analysis" of why we get to see wlw in cartoons is so stupid and exemplifies how much you refuse to understand our realities and struggles. It almost only happens in cartoons because love between women is never taken seriously and neither is animation, as it’s associated with kids.

You think we get it in animation because straight men get horny for us (which, by the way, they don’t when our love and lust are portrayed in a SERIOUS humane way, only when it’s a performance for men), when it happens in media that's mostly aimed at KIDS. Korrasami and HQ are the only examples I can think of that weren’t intended for a super young audience, but you fix your mouths saying it’s because we’re sexy to straight men. Do you REALLY think it happens in mostly children’s media because of our sexualization by men? Do you realize that would mean we’re being shown to children as a sexual product? Don’t be stupid. Other than Harlivy in HQ, none of them are shown doing more than kissing and holding hands.

If it were true that we get wlw in cartoons because of our fetishization by straight men, it would also mean that our fetishization IS A PRIVILEGE, because it'd be getting us humane and complex representation. Do you hear yourselves? Our fetishization gets us RAPED AND BATTERED. Gee, for people who got so passionate about being fetishized only after wlw talking about our own fetishization that also has way more dire material repercussions than annoying fujoshis started to get traction you sure do seem to think that when fetishization happens to YOU it’s a crime against humanity but when it happens to wlw it’s a fucking privilege.

Only reason we've gotten that representation is, again, because we've campaigned for DECADES to get ANYTHING, and some of us made the work of basically infiltrating the creative field and made + pushed for our content to be published/released with tooth and nail. It wasn't GIVEN to us, we FOUGHT for it.

Anyway, back to how white gay men (often the gentile ones) constantly take from us (gays of color, wlw, trans women, Jewish gays) but then turn around and think they’re the pinnacle of culture; I'd just fucking like it if you could at least treat us with basic respect and recognize our amazing creativity if you're gonna steal our creative labor constantly, OR if you refuse to do that, THEN MAKE YOUR OWN FFS.

Pick ONE struggle!

[dorkylittleweirdo]

crazy shit that happened during high school

freshman year:

my favorite teacher (pe coach) ended up being a pedophile. it’s kinda scary to think about bc like,, that was my favorite teacher and i trusted him and if he tried anything with me i don’t think i would’ve stopped him and just yikes. but yeah, it was a whole thing. once the school found out they got the police involved and he fled the state. they got him in the end but i mean,, i spent a lot of time in the secretary’s office crying about it bc i really trusted that dude and i was distraught over it. that might’ve been where my trust issues started??? fun stuff

my school shut down. like i mean,, bc it was a charter school and we had to get the charter renewed. but the board at my school wasn’t using their money the way they were supposed to. it was a whole thing, like the principal left that school year bc he knew what was happening, couldn’t stop them from doing it, and didn’t want to be part of it. so they had a lot of meetings that us kids were allowed to go to so we could see what was happening and all that. i only went to one and it was A Time bc the lady who was recording everything passed tf out and of course nobody was a doctor and my pipsqueak thirteen year old ass went “i know what to do” bc i Did so i had to help her which was a trip in and of itself. but anyways, the school’s charter got denied, and everyone had to transfer, but the district promised that we could go to any school we wanted, not just the one we would have to go to by zip code

sophomore year:

i ended up going to a private christian school. big fucking mistake. absolute disaster. nothing really happened that was crazy by their standards, but it was for me

so they have a house system. think of harry potter, it’s EXACTLY like that. we have points, we have competitions, we have all that extra stuff. it was such a time, like i don’t,, i don’t even know how to explain how fucking weird that shit was

i came out in the middle of class. the principal’s daughter was our sub and she goes “okay so everyone is gonna tell us something that nobody knows about them” so when it was my turn i go “so it’s not a secret and y’all should know this but clearly y’all don’t: i’m not straight”. silence. dead silence. we could hear the class next to us it was so quiet. some girl whispers “i knew it”. another girl leans over and whispers to my friend “i’m so sorry”. principal’s daughter gives me the most threatening, condescending smile i’ve ever seen and goes “thanks for sharing”. i had to come out to my mom that same day bc i told me friends and they panicked on my behalf bc when people found out that they were gay, the principal told their parents. and i was Not about to be outed by the principal. my mom has since told me that the principal never contacted her about it so i came out for nothing but i mean i really like being out so we’re good

so instead of prom, cult school has this thing called “the ball”. sophomores, juniors, and seniors are allowed to go bc there’s less than fifty people per grade so if sophomores don’t come, there’s not enough people. so i went bc my friends were all going and i was like “yeah why not might as well”. three dance lessons. three fucking dance lessons for this stupid ball that i didn’t dance once at. i literally had three panic attacks in the span of an hour at the second one, and then i had swim practice right after. fucking exhausted. felt like i ran five marathons by the time i got home. the last lesson i didn’t do any dancing, just vibed with my friend in the corner. so at the actual ball, same friend and i vibed at the tables the whole time. we went to the bathroom for like an hour and took mirror selfies and tried to make our asses look bigger bc we’re Like That

SO AFTER THE BALL, there was apparently a massive party and there was alcohol and stuff. so my friends and i were blissfully unaware bc nobody liked us bc who tf likes the school sinners. so we walked to get ice cream after in our fucking ballgowns and suits looking like All That. so the principal thought that it was one of us who hosted the party and we were like “??? what party?”. literally almost got in trouble bc the principal thought we were LYING. i told my mom and she takes No Shit, so when the principal called her demanding to know if i went to/hosted the party, she marched her ass down to the school and was like “i know y’all have something against mexicans and people who are different from y’all, but that’s no reason to blame my daughter for something that your so called “perfect” students did”. my mom got Heated, roasted the fuck out of the principal, then LEFT. principal never fucked with my mom after that

so there was a fire like across the street from the school. the fd told us to evacuate, but noooooo the school was like “god will protect us” i’m like “okay but i’m gay and apparently your god hates that so i think we’re gonna Perish”. the fucking POWER went out and they STILL wouldn’t let us go. my mom called to sign me out so i could go wherever the fuck i wanted in the school until my friend’s dad came to pick us up bc she couldn’t get there bc of the fire. so i vibed next door to my friends’ class and i was like “heeeeey god’s trying to kill the gays” and we laughed about that until my gay ass got saved lmaoooo

okay so this is the funniest memory i have. in chemistry once, our teacher took us outside and started digging a lil hole next to the school. and keep in mind, my chem teacher used to be a hardcore atheist druggie, like fucking meth and coke and shit. took a theology course and converted. so he’s really sweet and nice but he’s also Slightly mad scientist vibes. so anyways, he puts something in this little hole, lights it on fire. i forgot why he did it, but i was standing back with him and one of the exchange students and the three of us watch in Horror as the rest of the class makes a circle around the fire and start doing some weird dance and saying something. it wasn’t like a chant, idk what to call it, but they were like counting like “and one, and two, and three, and four” and then the dance would get more intense and they’d get louder. so eventually they were screaming and going apeshit and i looked at my teacher and he’s just,, watching them do this. i’m like “and i’m satan, huh?”. like these kids really trying to summon the devil but i’m the bad one bc i like girls

junior year:

so technically this was during the summer but i’m putting it here. they have like a house party after the school year ends. i made cookies. apparently they “looked weird” so nobody ate them, two of my soon to be teachers kept insulting them. i called my mom to pick me up, took my cookies with me, got back in the car in tears. had to have a whole conversation with the principal and those two teachers so they could apologize bc i wanted to leave the school after that. dw tho, i took my cookies to the guards at my summer camp and they appreciated the hell out of them bc they were Very Good Cookies

so my ap bio teacher was an enabler. i was his favorite bc i wasn’t a religious nut and it was very obvious that i believed in science and not whatever the hell this cult was doing with their creationist bs. also he was a parasitologist and i’m super into parasitology so he had fun talking about it to someone who both understood and was extremely interested in the topic. i rolled up to class one day like “hey so i’m gonna buy hissing cockroaches from amazon, if my parents find out and don’t let me keep them do you want them??” and he’s like “yeah”. i brought them to class a few times and everyone Hated it but my teacher was like ayyyyy. and everyone thought he was either and atheist or agnostic, so when some girl asked how he thought mary conceived jesus to see what he said, he looked at me like “y’all hear somethin/hel p” and i go “parthenogenesis” and he Went With It, talking about how it was theoretically possible in humans but we ignored the fact that the baby would’ve been a girl bc the class is dumb none of them have ever heard of parthenogenesis before jesus is the true trans icon we all need

my art teacher was my favorite and she knows that i’m gay. she’s the only teacher from my school that i’m still in contact with. so every big project we did, i made it gay. and i knew, and my friends knew, and she knew, but the rest of the class had no idea. i’m like presenting my project and the class would get sus and they’re like “so are those two really good friends” and i’m like “so she has a rainbow heart on her choker and she has a lesbian symbol on her shirt”. the class was still confused and my friend yells “they’re LESBIANS”. it was iconic

my brit lit teacher was bi. she never said it, but i know she was. always talked about how much she hated men, then was like “women are very very good”. no way this woman was straight. so we read dracula and it’s got that Subtext, so one time i leaned over to my friend bc he sat next to me and i go “the Homoerotic Subtext”. and i didn’t realize that the teacher was right in front of me until she tapped my desk and goes “it gets better”, told me a page number that i flipped to, and it was Even More Gay and i was like 😏. also she assigned me a gay poet for my poetry project and i talked about that for my whole presentation in front of the class and it was the biggest paragraph in my essay and i got 100% on it even tho i choked at the beginning. also i mentioned in passing that i liked sappho and she goes “ooh i love sappho” i’m like “ma’am please leave this cult and get you a gf”

senior year:

i left the cult finally. went to the one school i actually liked. i made friends who actually like me and they were patient and they were amazing and i love them all very much even if i’ll never tell them. my classmates were great, v friendly, i had a great time. however,

so many fires. school got cancelled like five times bc of how bad the fires were

the school shooting. i don’t think i need to go further into that, it’s pretty self explanatory

covid. again, don’t need to go further into that, v self explanatory

[butch-bakugo]

how do you respond to someone saying that sappho was bi and actually lesbian used to mean bi and lesbians didn't exist until the 70s when terfs did political lesbianism because twitter is hell

Short answer: a hard block, cause twitter aint worth your time

Long answer: all we know about sappho was that she was wlw. She never wrote about men or having men in her life so she could be bi but most likely wasnt. I heard there were few documents that suggested sappho may have had a husband( wether it was a romantic endeavor or simpley another case of " ill say your my husband as long as you support me monetarily" which was common at the time, is unknown) but historians believe this may have been a joke due to the fact of the name he is suggested to have was outlandish and basically meant manly man p*nis. Its funny but very unlikely to be true that she ever had a husband.

Lesbian never used to mean bi? I dont know where they got that information but they are probably refering to the fact that the term bisexual did not exist/ was widely used until the 1950s( it was coined in 1892 but it was a medical term and obvs was used to mark them for " illness", they still probably didnt want to use that term even then but many did) whilst the term lesbian was coined at sometime during the 16th century. Lesbian, at that time( 1950-1980s), usually refered to any woman that loved women.

So, bi women were called lesbians when they were with women and straight when they were with men.

Its honestly completely unture that lesbianism, when it got its currently meaning( around mid 1980s), got it from the radical feminism movement ( not specfically trans-exclusionary aka not nessearily terfs). Radical feminism however did create the term asexual( it dosent mean the same thing it means today. See the spinster movement and the asexual manifesto) and anti-sexual.

Id give sources but honestly? All this stuff can be found with a simple google search. In the end, they are completely historically inaccurate and sound like they just want to twist history to make lesbians sound evil. They sound like a lesbophobe who probably wont hear you out even if you do hit them with these facts. Good luck to you however and hope y'all enjoyed this small lesbian history lesson regardless

[xeno-aligned]

copy & pasted under the read more in order to have a local copy.

A Brief His and Herstory of Butch And Femme

BY: JEM ZERO 16 DEC 2017

When America’s LGBTQ+ folk started coming out of the closet in the 1950s, the underground scene was dominated by working class people who had less to lose if they were outed. Butch/femme presentation arose as a way for lesbians to identify each other, also serving as a security measure when undercover cops tried to infiltrate the local scenes. Butch women exhibited dapper and dandy aesthetics, and came to be known for being aggressive because they took protective roles during raids and other examples of homophobic violence. The image of the butch lesbian became a negative stereotypes for lesbians as a whole, leaving out femme lesbians, who are (pretty insultingly) considered undetectable as lesbians due to their feminine presentation.

In modern times there’s less need for strict adherence to these roles; instead, they become heritage. A great deal of political rebellion is wrapped up in each individual aesthetic. Butch obviously involves rejecting classically feminine gender expectations, while femme fights against their derogatory connotations.

But while butch/femme has been a part of lesbian culture, these terms and identities are not exclusive to queer women. Many others in the LGBTQ community utilize these signifiers for themselves, including “butch queen” or “femme daddy.” Butch and femme have different meanings within queer subcultures, and it’s important to understand the reasons they were created and established.

The Etymology

The term “lesbian” derives from the island on which Sappho lived—if you didn’t already guess, she was a poet who wrote extensively about lady-lovin’. Before Lesbos lent its name to lesbians, the 1880s described attraction between women as Sapphism. In 1925, “lesbian” was officially recorded as the word for a female sodomite. (Ick.) Ten years before that, “bisexual” was defined as "attraction to both sexes."

In upcoming decades, Sapphic women would start tearing down the shrouds that obscured the lives of queer women for much of recorded history. Come the ‘40s and ‘50s, butch and femme were coined, putting names to the visual and behavioral expression that could be seen in pictures as early as 1903. So, yeah—Western Sapphic women popularized these terms, but the conversation doesn’t end there, nor did it start there.

Before femme emerged as its own entity, multiple etymological predecessors were used to describe gender nonconforming people. Femminiello was a non-derogatory Italian term that referred to a feminine person who was assigned male—this could be a trans woman, an effeminate gay man, or the general queering of binarist norms. En femme derives from French, and was used to describe cross-dressers.

Butch, first used in 1902 to mean "tough youth," has less recorded history. Considering how “fem” derivatives were popularized for assigned male folks, one might attribute this inequality to the holes in history where gender-defying assigned female folks ought to be.

The first time these concepts were used to specifically indicate women was the emergence of Sapphic visibility in twentieth century. This is the ground upon which Lesbian Exclusivism builds its tower, and the historical and scientific erasure of bisexual women is where it crumbles. Seriously, did we forget that was a thing?

The assumption that any woman who defies gender norms is automatically a lesbian relies on the perpetuation of misogynist, patriarchal stereotypes against bisexual women. A bisexual woman is just as likely to suffer in a marriage with a man, or else be mocked as an unlovable spinster. A woman who might potentially enjoy a man is not precluded from nonconformist gender expression. Many famous gender nonconforming women were bisexual—La Maupin (Julie d'Aubigny), for example.

Most records describing sexual and romantic attraction between women were written by men, and uphold male biases. What happens, then, when a woman is not as openly lascivious as the ones too undeniably bisexual to silence? Historically, if text or art depicts something the dominant culture at the time disagrees with, the evidence is destroyed. Without voices of the Sapphists themselves, it’s impossible to definitively draw a line between lesbians and bisexuals within Sapphic history.

Beyond White Identities

Another massive hole in the Lesbian Exclusivist’s defenses lies in the creeping plague that is the Mainstream White Gay; it lurks insidiously, hauling along the mangled tatters of culture that was stolen from Queer and Trans People of Colour (QTPOC). In many documents, examples provided of Sapphic intimacy are almost always offered from the perspective of white cis women, leaving huge gaps where women of color, whether trans or cis, and nonbinary people were concerned. This is the case despite the fact that some of the themes we still celebrate as integral to queer culture were developed by Black and Latinx LGBTQ+ folk during the Harlem Renaissance, which spanned approximately from 1920 to 1935.

A question I can’t help but ask is: Where do queer Black, Indigenous, and other People of Color fit into the primarily white butch/femme narrative? Does it mean anything that the crackdown on Black queer folk seemed to coincide with the time period when mainstream lesbianism adopted butch and femme as identifiers?

Similar concepts to butch/femme exist throughout the modern Sapphic scene. Black women often identify as WLW (Women-Loving-Women), and use terms like “stud” and “aggressive femme.” Some Asian queer women use “tomboy” instead of butch. Derivatives and subcategories abound, sometimes intersecting with asexual and trans identities. “Stone butch” for dominant lesbians who don’t want to receive sexual stimulation; “hard femme” as a gender-inclusive, fat-positive, QTPOC-dominated political aesthetic; “futch” for the in-betweenies who embody both butch and femme vibes. These all center women and nonbinary Sapphics, but there’s still more.

Paris is Burning, a documentary filmed about New York City ball culture in the 1980s, describes butch queens among the colourful range of identities prevalent in that haven of QTPOC queerness. Despite having a traditionally masculine physique, the gay male butch queen did not stick to gender expectations from straight society or gay culture. Instead, he expertly twisted up his manly features with women’s clothing and accessories, creating a persona that was neither explicitly masculine nor feminine.

Butch Queens Up in Pumps, a book by Marlon M. Bailey, expounds upon their presence within inner city Detroit’s Ballroom scene, its cover featuring a muscular gay man in a business casual shirt paired with high heels. Despite this nuance, butch remains statically defined as a masculine queer woman, leaving men of color out of the conversation.

For many QTPOC, especially those who transcend binary gender roles, embracing the spirit of butch and femme is inextricable with their racial identity. Many dark-skinned people are negatively portrayed as aggressive and hypermasculine, which makes it critical to celebrate the radical softness that can accompany femme expressions. Similarly, the intrinsic queerness of butch allows some nonbinary people to embrace the values and aesthetics that make them feel empowered without identifying themselves as men.

Butch, Femme, and Gender

It’s pretty clear to me that the voices leading the Lesbian Exclusive argument consistently fail to account for where butch and femme have always, in some form, represented diverse gender expression for all identities.

‘Butch’ and ‘femme’ began to die out in the 1970s when Second Wave Feminism and Lesbian Separatism came together to form a beautiful baby, whom they named “Gender Is Dead.” White, middle class cis women wrestled working class QTWOC out of the limelight, claiming that masculine gender expression was a perversion of lesbian identity. The assassination attempt was largely unsuccessful, however: use of these identifiers surged back to life in the ‘80s and ‘90s, now popularized outside of class and race barriers.

Looking at all this put together, I have to say that it’s a mystery to me why so many lesbians, primarily white, believe that their history should take precedence over… everyone else that makes up the spectrum of LGBTQ+ experiences, even bi/pan Sapphics in same-gender relationships. If someone truly believes that owning butch/femme is more important than uniting and protecting all members of the Sapphic community from the horrors of homophobic and gendered oppression, maybe they’re the one who shouldn’t be invited to the party.

As a nonbinary lesbian, I have experienced my share of time on the flogging-block. I empathize strongly with the queer folks being told that these cherished identities are not theirs to claim. Faced with this brutal, unnecessary battle, I value unity above all else. There’s no reason for poor trans women, nonbinary Black femmes, bisexual Asian toms, gay Latino drag queens, or any other marginalized and hurting person to be left out of the dialogue that is butch and femme, with all its wonderful deconstructions of mainstream heteronormative culture.

It is my Christmas wish that the Lesbian Exclusivist Tower is torn down before we open the new chapter in history that is 2018. Out of everything the LGBTQ+ community has to worry about already, petty infighting shouldn’t be entertained—especially when its historical foundation is so flimsy. Queering gender norms has always been the heart of butch/femme expression, and that belongs to all of us.

[satansfemme]

tbh one thing I hate about the Hellenic community is that you legit aren’t. allowed to vocally disagree with people’s interpretations.

you very much have to go by all interpretations are possible as the Theoi are multifaceted in ways we cannot comprehend.

and this is true in many ways! there are many ways you may interact with the same deities I do and get different results.

but like...... the Theoi still have general concepts that you can’t just ignore, not just bc you may not have experienced it but bc it can erase histories of oppressed groups.

I would say the common ones are Artemis and Athene as lesbians. Now, I’m gonna focus mainly on Artemis here bc I personally feel there’s slightly more evidence on her side.

Artemis has always been portrayed as a goddess of girls and young women with a specific distaste for men. This is a portrayal that goes back a long, long way. Is it universal? well no nothing in the Theoi’s portrayals is universal. In Arcadia, Artemis was neither Apollon’s sister nor the goddess of the hunt, she was the goddess of nymphs.

Based on this, I think it’s fair to say Artemis was seen as disliking men. It’s also important to take in the context of virgin at the time- women weren’t seen as being capable of choosing sex or even enjoying it. On top of that, it’s weird to me that people use Artemis being considered a chaste goddess to argue that she’s ace, when like. We have goddesses that refused all forms of romantic intimacy- Hestia, for example, would make more sense as an aroace goddess.

But Artemis? Didn’t just say no to marriage and romance, she actively rejected men. It was forbidden for men to see her naked... but not women. And sure, there’s all sorts of things you can argue here but the point of it is: in the most common myths, Artemis rejected men and killed those who tried to get her anyway, and spent her time with a group of wild women and nymphs who had all chosen to give up their lives, marriages, and families for freedom in the woods.

Which is why a lot of lesbians relate to her and say ‘yeah, that sounds gay.’

Did the ancient Greeks specifically say she was interested in women? No of fucking course not. That wasn’t a concept they had, the idea of two women being in love was such a ridiculous concept to them that it allowed Sappho to get away with what she did because everyone assumed it wasn’t about her.

But things like rejecting men, being surrounded by other women who have done the same, and doing things that aren’t traditionally feminine all would make most people be read as a lesbian.

Athene is similar in that she was seen as often taking on masculine positions and hanging out with men more, despite rejecting marriage to one. This could be read in similar ways, but I’m not familiar enough with her to feel comfortable elaborating on it.

There’s also things such as Hekate being a goddess of trans women, Aphrodite being seen as a trans woman in certain areas, and Dionysos being read as trans. None of these are flat out clear things stated bc while trans people existed, they weren’t called that. But there were priestxs of Hekate who were often described as men taking on women’s roles, Dionysos was considered ‘male’ but often shown in very androgynous fashion alongside his childhood.

These things happened constantly. There are absolutely deities that were considered gay or trans or bi but it was never written down because those words didn’t exist and those people were already being oppressed in certain ways. It’s one thing to just not personally work with a concept or facet of a deity- there’s parts of all the Theoi that we just aren’t meant to see and that’s how this religion is!

But it’s another to actively say ‘actually I feel Artemis is aroace bc I just want to’. Like yes, hellenismos is a very flexible religion in many ways. But you also can’t just.... take away divine representation of oppressed people bc you like another idea better

also this is specifically about deities where there’s mythological or historical info leading people to these conclusions. like I see Aphrodite as a lesbian or at least bi and while I think it’s pointless to see her as straight, it’s not like it’s actively taking away a long history bc Aphrodite as a goddess commonly worshipped by lesbians is very recent/was restricted to Lesbos, unlike Artemis being worshipped by lesbians and gnc women or Aphrodite’s representations as trans.