#( mcu timeline. )

[makkarisbelova]

EVERYBODY MOVED ON I, I STAYED THERE DUST COLLECTED ON MY PINNED-UP HAIR THEY EXPECTED ME TO FIND SOMEWHERE SOME PERSPECTIVE BUT I SAT AND STARED RIGHT WHERE YOU LEEEEEFT MEEEEE YOU LEFT ME NO, YOU LEFT ME NO, YOU LEFT ME NO CHOICE BUT TO STAY HERE FOREVER

[callmemoonlight123]

This Man. Bless his soul. 🙏 Grateful for him.

[textsfromthetva]

Loki + tumblr [157/?]

[wolfpup026]

Happy Loki Season 2 Day!!!

[mayhasopinions]

what in the lgbt even was this scene (see tags for discussion)

[jintsuki]

oh the last two episodes about to destroy me

[rowenas-megacoven]

Loki gets a time dilf, Wade gets a time dilf, you get a time dilf, I get a time dilf, EVERYONE gets a time dilf let’s goooooooo

[brainrotcharacters]

Paradox, baby. Can I call you Mr. Darcy? I'll call you Fitzgerald. Fitzy, are you sure you want Deadpool in the main timeline? Really? Has the mothers and fuckers of this honorable jury forgotten what happens to every other fish when you put a lionfish in their midst?

The lionfish eats them all.

[amarriageoftrueminds]

If The Howlies were real...

I've been thinking about Steve's time during the war, and wondering if anyone has any headcanons about, eg. where he was stationed, how exactly the Howling Commando mission planning went, etc?

In the comics, Steve isn't assigned to the 107 but to the 1st Battalion, 26th Infantry Regiment, 1st Infantry Division (aka the ‘Big Red One’.)

They were part of D-Day landings, on Omaha Beach.

In deleted scenes / clips from the Smithsonian, it’s implied that Steve was also a part of D-Day: 

(That’s General Eisenhower, the Supreme Commander.)

(These landing craft 👆 were only used at D-Day. Although it’s possible this is propaganda footage of a rehearsal.)

If the Howlies had the same set up as the 26th, then Steve and the guys would’ve been stationed in Swanage, Dorset:

(Members of ‘A’ Company 26th Infantry Regiment US Army, billeted at Craigside in the High Street opposite Purbeck House Hotel, Swanage, around 1943 – 44.)

That’s 114 miles south west of Camp Griffiss in Bushy Park, Teddington, where General Eisenhower had his SHAEF HQ, starting from January 1944

(before that his HQ was at No.20 Grosvenor Square, Mayfair, in London -- aka ‘Little America’ or ‘Eisenhower Platz’ -- a couple of miles northwest of Churchill’s War Rooms, which inspired the underground bunker HQ seen in CATFA.)

Thousands of American troops, including the 26th Infantry, started arriving in Dorset in November 1943 -- which is also when Steve arrived in England after rescuing the 107!

While in Dorset, the US troops were largely engaged in rehearsing for Operation Overlord, aka D-Day. 

One such rehearsal was the disastrous Operation Smash, on the 18th April, 1944, which was a live-ammunition practice for beach landings at Normandy. (Disastrous because six men accidentally drowned when their Valentine semi-submersible tank... sank.)

Operation Smash was staged in Studland Bay (that’s 4.5 miles north of Swanage). Present to observe were: Winston Churchill, King George VI, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery, and Acting Admiral Louis Mountbatten. They did so from ‘Fort Henry,’ a 90 foot long bunker (built and named by Canadian engineers in 1943 -- so it would’ve been there by the time Steve n’ Co got there -- and it’s still there today!) overlooking the bay. 

The US troops moved on from Swanage in late April 1944, and departed England entirely (from nearby places like Weymouth, Poole Quay, Portland Harbour, etc.) on 5th June 1944. D-Day was on the 6th.

In the deleted scene from Avengers, Steve is clearly shown crossing  the Ludendorff Bridge:

...But this is impossible!

Because that bridge (at Remagen) was only captured on the 7th of March 1945:

(9th Armored Division in Remagen, Germany, recorded 9th March, 1945).

...and Steve had already crashed the Valkyrie 6 days prior!

(So unless that bridge was captured earlier, possibly because of Steve n’ Co., that footage can’t be right! 

CATFA does have a habit of putting the US Army in places they had no business being yet at that time of the war -- i.e. showing the US Army right up at the North of Italy, when in reality the Nazis still held it. 

(In fact, Mussolini’s Nazi puppet republic, the Republic of Salò, was nicknamed after a lake in Brescia... which is 200-ish miles further south than the US Army are shown in November ‘43.)

So I guess it’s possible that Steve & Co really were in Remagen, Germany, and crossing the Ludendorff Bridge before March ‘45! 

Or (perhaps more likely) we’re supposed to read is as some generic bridge in Western Europe, captured on D-Day.

.

Where exactly the Hydra factories were (and thus most Howlie missions) is not categorically stated. However, what Steve says / taking rough guesses from the map we see in Krausberg...

...it looks like the Howlies would’ve had missions in: Italy, France, (then) Czechoslovakia, Poland, and Greece. 

(The script also mentions Belgium and Russia, which are neither shown on the map nor mentioned. However, there is a shot of them creeping through snowy forests, which looks very much like the Ardennes. That might put them in Belgium as part of the Battle of the Bulge -- which in turn gives us a date that could be the ‘difficult winter’ mentioned in the Smithsonian footage.)

If the Howlies were an active team from say 14th November 1943 -- 1st March 1945 (when Steve went down in the Valkyrie) 

That’s 473 days / or 1 year, 3 months, 15 days / or 15 months, 15 days.

If they had 9 missions total during that time...

6 Hydra factories around Europe

+ 1 winter mission to save over a 1000 men (as mentioned in Smithsonian; could be Battle of the Bulge? 🤔)

+ 1 D-Day mission (possibly including amphibious landings &/or bridge captures)

+ 1 Zola-capture mission, probably somewhere in the Alps. 

+ 1 Valkyrie mission makes 10.

...That would give them 52.5 days (less than two months) to both plan, travel in and out, and execute each mission. That seems like a pretty tight turnaround, especially if each factory was different enough to warrant a new/fresh plan. 

(One difficulty never mentioned because their raids are relegated to a montage: the fact that Hydra factories appear to be staffed by slave labour. Means the Howlies can’t just bust in guns blazing! Or, at least, I don’t think Steve would stand for it. They’d have to free the workers first, and hopefully they’d be workers both physically capable and willing to join in the fight.)

In the film, they are never shown being back in the UK between these missions,  right up until the last Valkyrie mission in 1945, and dialogue seems to suggest there hasn’t been any personal contact between them and the HQ staff in between. (It does seem a bit nuts to be shipping them out and back every time, rather than just keeping them on the continent. Also nuts to be planning their most important Valkyrie mission only the day before. But anyway...) 

In order to take part in D-Day, they had to have been back to England at least once, to receive those highly classified orders and to rehearse (can’t be discussing details of D-Day over radio!) 

Also, they couldn’t have been allowed to go haring off attacking Hydra bases any old where, because it might have been inconvenient for D-Day (ie. if the Nazis increased defenses in certain places just because Captain America had been sighted there recently.)

TPTB could have used the Howlies as a diversion, sending them on dummy missions designed to make the Nazis think D-Day is going to happen somewhere else. I think Greece and Italy would be a great way to convince the Nazis that an invasion will be coming from the south, not the north! They could even have used doubles of the Howlies to throw the Nazis off the scent, as part of the Ghost Army (they did this IRL with Bernard Montgomery!) 

Maybe the SSR would be advised to keep the Howlies’ real missions as far away from Normandy as possible, earlier on, and then the reverse right before D-Day? (ie. damage Hydra’s factories that are nearest to Normandy, close to D-Day, so that they can’t supply weapons and don’t have enough time to rebuild).

Other possibilities: 

If they were not stationed in the UK between missions, and weren’t with the US Army of occupation (because it hadn’t invaded that part yet) Steve & Co. might have been living undercover in Nazi-occupied territory in the run up to missions against local Hydra bases (in, eg. France and Poland. Chance for Frenchy to get his Maquis on!) Very dangerous, very nerve-wracking, very Inglourious Basterds of them. Also potentially very dangerous for the locals, too, since there would surely be reprisals against them after any successful anti-Hydra attack. 

IRL There was a concentration camp called Terezin in Czechoslovakia, near-ish where that one Hydra base is shown. (It’s the one that the Nazis famously filmed a propaganda movie in, after cleaning it up and deporting a bunch of people to Auschwitz to seemingly reduce overcrowded living conditions, to fool the visiting Red Cross.) So Steve and the Howlies might have gone off-mission to go and liberate that; could be that was a source of slave labour for the nearby Hydra factory. (From a character POV, Terezin was known for having a big artistic culture among the inmates, and surely Steve would feel empathy for those used in propaganda, having been made to do that himself.)

Logically speaking, I would’ve expected that last Hydra base to be in Holland or Denmark -- not Greece -- to complete the ring of bases formed around Germany. 🤔 Maybe even more likely to be Denmark, since the Tesseract (which kicked off the whole Hydra supremacy thing) was discovered in Tønsberg, SE Norway.

[kstarlitchaotics]

I know Gambit said they never had a Wolverine but you'd think that Wolverine would recognize(know?) Gambit

[abitofboth]

no HANG ON the fact that original timeline loki sacrificed everything to save the universe against thanos. and this timeline’s loki saw himself die saving his brother, his universe, in that time theatre, and he did it again. he sacrificed everything again to save the multiverse.

in both timelines, he went from having nothing, to having everything- a love for thor, for asgard, the universe, and a love for mobius, for the tva, for the multiverse- and his love for for everything was the very reason he sacrificed himself and went straight back to nothing again.

Loki could never be a villain again. his heart is too big for that

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

I read GRRM’s interview regarding book vs show canon and I thought the way he was approaching an adaptation of his own story, and fiction as a whole, was very interesting. I do wonder though - does the concept of having a separate show canon kind of become like a cop-out? Because in that case, any TV/film adaptation can just decide to change the plot as they see fit and go “oh, well, that’s our canon, the book is a different canon.” Doesn’t it cease to be an adaptation after a point, or at least become a loose one? In the HotD context, a lot of the changes being made I actually quite like because I can see them fitting in the canon, because there’s nothing suggesting otherwise.

But say, Sansa marrying Ramsay (or, alternatively, the moment that show was dead to me) we can say with absolute certainty did not take place and will almost definitely never take place. D&D knew that too but they went ahead with it anyway; it’s not quite like the Scarlett example where it makes no difference to the story because this change does. I feel like the whole point of adapting written words into something visual loses some of its sanctity if we just accept TV changes a whole separate canon, as opposed to simply a change made by the writers (good change or bad change is up to personal opinion).

I have followed your blog for almost a decade so I’m really curious to hear your thoughts on the subject.

GRRM's "Scarlett example" -- his question of "how many children did Scarlett O'Hara have?", because in the book Gone With the Wind she had three, one with each of her three husbands, whereas in the movie she only had one -- has been his go-to when asked about the difference between book and show canon since at least 2012. Or to quote him from 2015,

How many children did Scarlett O’Hara have? Three, in the novel. One, in the movie. None, in real life: she was a fictional character, she never existed. The show is the show, the books are the books; two different tellings of the same story.

This is IMO one of the most sensible ways for an author to look at adaptations of their work (even if I have gotten rather tired of GRRM using the Scarlett example specifically, pick something different George, we've seen it before lol). There is book canon and there is show canon. They are different parallel universes. They're separate canons because they contain changes made by the writers, and also because the very process of moving from the written word to visual media must involve some kind of change.

And this applies to all adaptations. That's why I brought up X-Men comics vs the Fox X-Men movies vs the X-Men cartoon (original 90s and 2024's '97). For example, there's 4 different versions of the Dark Phoenix Saga between those canons, at the very least. Wait, sorry lol, I forgot the Ultimate canon version. And the various in-comics alternate universe versions. And god knows when they finally bring the X-Men into the MCU they'll probably do yet another DPS there too. And that's only one of many storylines that are radically different between the various canons.

Or look at the various Interviews with the Vampire. Is the new tv show "not an adaptation" because its Claudia is a teenager rather than 5 years old as in the book or portrayed by an 11 year old as in the movie, thus resulting in extremely different relationships and a reshaped plot? (Among many other changes?) No. IWTV has book canon, movie canon, and show canon.

And I can't speak that well about Transformers since it's not a major fandom of mine, but go take a look at their various continuities if you want some more perspective about just how very far the meaning of "adaptation" can stretch.

Or hell, look at Stephen King, where among his many many many adaptations, some of which just barely resemble the original text, the only one he sued to have his name removed from was The Lawnmower Man, because they literally used an entirely different story and just slapped his title on it.

And then there's the movie Adaptation, which is a wildly meta-adaptation of the non-fiction book The Orchard Thief (it's a story about the process of adapting that book and involves a fictional version of the writer, the screenplay writer, and an entirely invented screenplay writer's twin brother)... and it was nominated for Best Adapted Screenplay for multiple film awards (and won a few times), and the original writer even said it kept to the book's themes.

Suffice it to say, HOTD has a long, long, long way to go before it could ever "cease to be an adaptation after a point". Changing the timeline to make Alicent and Rhaenyra the same age, or doing Blood & Cheese differently, do not even compare to what some book-to-visual media "loose adaptations" have done. Even GOT, as wildly terrible as their non-book storylines could be, both their changes to the text and after they had no actual text to work with, never became a "loose adaptation". Certainly it became a less than faithful adaptation -- and let's be real, it always was unfaithful for both themes and the essential elements of so many characters -- but it also always was a remarkably accurate adaptation of the whole span of Westeros (in geography and breadth of characters) and the general (not specific) book plot. (Consider previous attempts at adaptation that GRRM rejected, such as a single 2 hour movie, or eliminating Jon and Dany for being "irrelevant", or only making a Jon movie with none of the other storylines, etc.) Which is why, when GOT was different (and awful) it was such a betrayal, like a zombie or evil alien wearing the skin of your best friend or beloved child, and worse, that this twisted lookalike was the only version millions and millions of viewers ever saw and believed to be true.

But again, this just underlines what GRRM has said. "The show is the show, the books are the books." There is book canon and there is show canon. They are separate things. Parallel universes -- very close parallels, often touching in many places, but sometimes they're quite different. Sometimes the differences in adaptation enhance the themes of the original canon; sometimes the author may even consider certain adapted characters (Shae, King Viserys, Helaena) to be better than his original canon; sometimes you know there's only those tricky NDAs (and payments of lots of money) that prevent him from expressing his disappointment in more ways than dropping the Sansa TWOW preview chapter only days before the release of GOT S5. But perhaps if we're lucky, maybe one day we'll have yet another parallel canon to compare to the others.

[musclesandhammering]

There’s zero chance Loki and Hela having so many similarities is just a coincidence. And even though we’re most definitely never getting a full explanation for it, I’m so curious as to what you guys believe the reason is. Do you think:

a.) Loki’s a shapeshifter who can see people’s memories when he touches them. So when Odin picked him up as a baby, he saw Hela in Odin’s mind and shifted himself to resemble her.

b.) Loki and Hela have the same biological mother.

c.) Hela is Loki’s biological mother.

d.) Odin changed Loki to look like Hela when he first held him, because he missed her.

e.) Hela’s biological mother is jotun, and she and Loki both have black hair/pale skin/green aesthetic/etc because that’s just what frost giants look like when they take an asgardian form.

f.) Hela and Loki are both adopted, both children of Laufey. Odin took Hela centuries earlier, then when he realised Laufey’d had another child, he took Loki too.

**I’ve listed these in order from the ones I find most likely to least likely, if you’re curious. Tell me which headcanon you prefer, I wanna see.

[mannyblacque]

via Hugh Jackman

[diamonddolljeanette]

I don't get is why the Marvel fandom struggles with the multiverse and willingness to validate that Sylvie is her entity not just a version of Loki.

Other fandoms accept it just fine, Star Trek for example. There is normal Spock, Kelvin Spock and Mirror Spock. They are all accepted as separate entities with their own feelings, thoughts and ideals.

They are not seen all just as Spock.

So if the Trekkies can do this, why can't you all accept that Sylvie is her own person and shipping her with Loki isn't perverse.

[mlady-magnolia]

Echoes of the past