#911ls discourse

[paperstorm]

Oh, I want to know your opinion on the sister thing!!

Asdfghjk ok please don't come for me, this is JUST me, I'm not mad at anyone for loving that he has sisters and if you love that please ignore me completely and keep on loving it. I, personally, feel like it doesn't work to announce 4 seasons in that he has siblings because of the way the show set up his entire backstory of being somewhat estranged from his family and being convinced that his parents wished he wasn't gay. He was wrong about that obviously, and I've loved the acknowledgement we've got this season of the hurt that was caused and the way they meant no harm but just didn't know how to react, that's meant so much to me. But dropping sisters on us at this point ... I feel like it sort of automatically implicates them in that. Like where were they during all that? During the decade Carlos spent thinking he wasn't good enough to make his family proud? Did they accept his sexuality right away? Did they support him? Did they push back against Gabriel? Did they also hug him and say they loved him and then never mentioned it again? Did they know about Iris? Do you see what I mean like ... we've never even met these people and I'm already lowkey mad at them for not supporting him. Setting up this whole complicated and painful backstory Carlos has with his family and then, 4 years later, randomly deciding to give him siblings, automatically implicates them in that and I don't like that. I have no problem with Grace and Marjan being randomly assigned sisters this season because they don't have that complicated backstory, but with Carlos ... it just feels like it wasn't thought through.

The other reason is probably gonna make even more people mad at me but what the heck I'm in a honest mood this morning, I don't like the sort of ... gender essentialism of fandoms seeming unable to let a man have positive characteristics without giving a woman credit for them. I don't love the implications of 'Carlos is sensitive and nurturing because he was raised by women'. In my mind, Carlos is sensitive because that's who he is, and men are allowed to be sensitive, and it feels sort of like going in the wrong direction to be so married to the idea that this is a feminine trait. Especially when the man in question is queer and especially since we know Carlos has struggled so much in his life because he's sensitive, and has been told by society that this makes him lesser and weak and not enough of a man. I, personally, feel uncomfortable with the idea that he could only be that way after being surrounded by women. It feels like biological determinism in a way that gives me an icky feeling.

[trkstrnd]

in my humble opinion there is no reason to continue to complain about a plot that has been resolved poorly. it takes so much energy to sit there and be negative and talk about why it bothers you about the thing you’re supposed to enjoy. that’s the thing with this show. as a fandom, we collectively understand that the writers aren’t always going to write what we like, and we can give or take anything to or from the show that we like or dislike, so why are we spending so much time on the dislike? it’s fiction, at the end of the day, no matter how much the actors or writers are adamant that it’s real to them. they’re taking what they get and playing it in stride, and we are watching it. we have the power, as a human being, to take what we need and leave the rest, and yet every time i log in i see people continuing to complain about things that we should simply move past, because no matter how much we hate it, it will not change. canon is canon.

i recently did a project for my film and television analysis class about audience reception, and we talked a bit about how, many times, fandoms can see or create things that aren’t there, or latch onto things that they think they can do better (which, let’s be honest, we can, but we don’t have a job in the writers room and even if we did we would be getting abused by higher ups (im so proud of the writers guild okay)). We talked about how it can almost become an obsession within and obsession. we watched a documentary in fandom and how some people incorporate it into their lives in a healthy way, and some people, not so much, and i think, especially in this fandom (which i am keeping vague so other fandoms can use this post to convey their feelings if they like), the line is incredibly blurred.

in this class, we also watched Paris Is Burning, which is representative of queer movements in the twentieth century, and we talked about backlash the film got, because the representation wasn’t quite positive with everyone exhibited in the doc. We had a lengthy discussion about how oftentimes, queer theory in media isn’t necessarily pretty, and when queer filmmakers came out of the gate, they showed these ugly, messy, real stories so they could exhibit the humanity and progress that these stories made.

Sometimes people make mistakes; a lot of times, things and conversations happen offscreen, and if you’re going to latch on to one storyline and let it ruin your overall view of the season or piece of media as a whole (when you previously lived it), im not going to tell you what to do, but i will say to try looking at it through a less critical eye.

throughout the season, progress was made. it’s exhibited later in the season, which means there is still a lot we don’t see, to have such a shift like that.

that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. it means there’s a set amount of time in each episode and there are other storylines going on. we are privileged enough to get the ones we do get (even if they’re not great), so use your imagination! bridge the gap! understand that not everything is sunshine and roses all the time and when it is, it doesn’t necessarily make good prime time tv.

tl; dr: please stop using canon as ur only source of material because there is so much more that we didn’t see!!! tv embraces fandom creativity! and shitting on it all the time isn’t healthy! plus, it makes those of us who moved on and feel okay about it feel really fucking shitty <3

[guardian-angle22]

ok I don't love this plot but what I do absolutely love is Grace's explanation to Judd as to why she can't let this go. and I also love that it isn't just another 126 member going off on their own. I appreciate it's not just carlos playing detective when he isn't one - he takes grace to an actual detective he trusts and then helps her.

[alidravana]

Should we start taking bets on how Tim's going to split Tarlos up in season 5 or is it too soon?

[evanbuckleysarms]

...catching up on lone star finally and...they sure are doing something...arent they...

[matan4il]

I saw your post about Noah and it just but a bee in my bonnet about how people in all sorts of fandoms have been doing similar things to Jewish actors (but it’s not as well known cause they’re obviously not as high profile as stranger things). I follow you from the 911 fandom, and I also watch 911 Lone Star and both Ronen Rubinstein (who plays TK) and Lisa Edelstein (who guest starred so isn’t a regular anymore but is iconic in her own right) have gotten hate. Ronen removed his twitter after people started calling him a Zionist and harassing him. Lisa turned comments off on some of her ig posts and specifically said it was so she wouldn’t get attacked. The only things those two have said are in regards to getting the hostages home safe or in reaction to the immediate events of Oct 7. Yet they’re being called supporters of genocide. The antisemitism disguised as “antizionism” is so fucking obvious and it’s sad how it’s infiltrated even the smaller fandoms if actors involved dare to be Jewish and express concern for fellow Jews.

Hi Nonnie!

First of all, yes. Sadly, there is not a single fandom I have been active in, that has been a safe space for Jews in general, and they've all become worse since Oct 7. So I'll talk a bit about the 911 fandom, but let's be clear that this fandom isn't the issue, it really is a symptom of a much bigger problem, which is very prevalent in online spaces, not just online fandoms. What I'll talk about is obviously not true for every single person, but it IS true for enough people, and especially for some very vocal ones, who shape what the "allowed" discourse is.

I have not been following what the 911 fandom does and says about Ronen Rubinstein for at least 2 years, but I can't say I'm surprised by what you told me.

I've written more than once about the fact that Jews are not white, not even the white passing ones. Also, I'm hardly the only Jew raising their voice about this, and yet I've noticed that the 911 fandom, which raged when half-white Eddie Diaz was not recognized as a POC by one fan, the fandom which has accepted Christopher Diaz as a POC (even though he's canonically only 25% Mexican, and is played by an actor who actually IS white, which means there's no arguing over the fact that Chris looks white), is also the fandom which has repeatedly conceptualized Ronen as a white guy, same for his character TK (even though he's canonically only half white), and with that view in mind there's been hostility towards Ronen that I've come across not long after 911LS just started. Ronen's family is from an area where Jews had been repeatedly slaughtered, including during the Holocaust for NOT being white less than one hundred years ago. TK looks white (you know, exactly like Chris), so that's enough to ignore Jewish identity, history, being native to the Middle East, and anti-Jewish persecution. Ronen gets conceptualized as a white oppressor. And as such, he's a fair target, even an encouraged one.

Gavin, whose character Chris is recognized as a POC, even though he himself is completely white.

Ronen, whose character TK is not recognized as a POC, even though the actor is fully Jewish.

Natacha, whose character Marjan is recognized as a POC, even though the actress herself is half white. She's also half Lebanese, Marjan is fully so, and whatever Arabs are, Jews are the exact same, because both groups are native to South West Asia (similarly, both groups come in a variety of skin tones).

So I'm not surprised that Ronen is being mistreated. Jews are mis-conceptualized as white, and the Israeli-Arab conflict gets mis-conceptualized by applying to it a race-based model imported from the US, in which Israelis are white Jews (even though 21% of our population is Arab, a part of our leadership is Arab and has been since the first Knesset was elected, over 70 years ago, and even though many of the Israeli soldiers fighting to protect us are Arabs... when the conflict is explained, they're all erased, and Israelis are only understood as - and blamed as - white Jews), who are evil oppressors of brown Arabs (even though some Arabs are just as white looking, or even whiter than some Jews). Then, this conflict is used to vilify and justify harassing Jewish actors, whether Noah in Stranger Things, Timothee Chalamet, or Ronen and Lisa.

Here are some white looking Palestinians, who always get ignored by the people conceptualizing the conflict as white vs brown people:

Two pics of Israeli soldiers killed, each pic from just one day in this war in Gaza, and you can see the diversity of skin tones...

Like I said, I haven't been following Ronen, but I did happen across a post that claimed he needs to be canceled for the crime of blocking people who the poster said were pro-Palestine. But in my experience, even when you're a Jew who is not being hateful towards Palestinians, you're just pro both groups, because you recognize they're both humans, the fact that you have the "audacity" to stand up for Jewish people and Jewish rights, and against the mis-representation of Jews in Israel, is enough for antisemitic bullies to use that to come after you with antisemitic abuse under the guise of being pro-Palestinian (here's just one example. I wonder how many Palestinians have been liberated by harassing Jews online. Pretty sure the answer is zero. I also always love how this crowd never actually stands up for Palestinians when they're wronged by fellow Arabs, in Kuwait, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon or Syria. It's only the Jews who bother these "pro-Palestinians," not the actual well being of Palestinians). I'm sure that if we could see who Ronen was blocking, it would be the same kind of people who have been sending me these very caring, human rights-oriented messages:

^ This ask was specifically a response to my reply to an anon telling me I lost my claim to humanity when I became an Israeli (and me answering that that was at the age of 5 months, and that my parents' decision to bring me to Israel actually saved my life).

^ Just a small collection, nowhere near what I actually got, but I kept them 'coz I wanted to show people at some point what Jews who dare to not want Israel destroyed are subjected to. And Ronen probably got similar ones, he blocked them, and for saying he was blocking them, he got further hate... At what point are people going to wake up and see that this is how an antisemitic misinformation campaign works? Lots of Germans genuinely believed in the narrative that Jews backstabbed them during WWI. If you were to ask them in the 1930's whether they hate Jews simply for being Jews, they'd say no, that they hated Jews, because Jews deserved to be hated due to their actions. In the exact same way, now support of the existence of the Jewish state, not even of its specific policies, is being spun as justification to hate on Jews.

I'll say this again. This reply isn't about Ronen. It isn't about Noah. It isn't about Lisa. This isn't about a specific fandom. This is a call for people to wake up and smell the antisemitic coffee, the legitimization of Jews being harassed. Please don't be a part of it, and if you can, please speak up when you see others being a part of it. I KNOW that online, and def on Tumblr, the majority of posts you see justify the vilifaction of anyone who is pro Israel's existence, even while also being critical of its leadership. And it's easy, and it feels right, to go with what everyone else in your echo chamber says. But you can be that one guy in 1930's Germany who didn't do the heil Hitler. If you will be, it may not be easy, but I very much doubt you'd ever regret it.

(for all of my updates and ask replies regarding Israel, click here)

[tommykiinard]

L’s 9-1-1 s6 viewing rules and reminders for herself:

watch the show

don’t like something? take a break and come back to it (did this for 911LS - helped a lot)

want to say something? tag it with 911 spoilers

want to say something negative? draft it first and sit on it, if you’re just hating, delete it. if you really want to say it, see if you really need to tag it in the main tag. if it’s discourse, tag it. if it’s anti, tag it

don’t like something on my dash? filter/unfollow/block to curate, you’re probably too busy to get too mad about a TV show because of an opinion not your own

enjoy the show

let other people enjoy the show

gif the show at my phase even if it is a race

just have a good time

enjoy the fucking show

[911discord]

was there a reason the discord channels were cleaned out or was it just routine?

No channels have been “cleaned out” since late April, in which case it was only the discourse channels. Both 911-discourse and 911ls-discourse are remade every few months. No other channels except “suggestions” has ever been cleaned out that I can remember.

[braveclxrke]

This this is my issue with Owen.

You know your son has an important dinner planned with his boyfriends parents, this is a big thing for him and means a lot to them both...yet he decides that chasing down this arsonists is more important, he could literally do it the day after but no.

Owen continuously put his job before his son and we saw it again tonight, pls can Owen learn that he needs to focus on his child pls

[paperstorm]

I rmbr you saying a while back that you don't mind Carlos cracking wife jokes, because you don't think he'd do unless he was sure that TK doesn't mind. I thought the same. But after the latest ep, I'm not able to decide how I want to interpret TK's comments "why does this keep happening" and "you're the only one [without a wife] evidently". His annoyed tone & expression - was he being dramatic just for the sake of it or does he still have some unresolved feelings about the Iris thing?

Maybe he's lower case annoyed and not upper case Annoyed, if that makes sense? I obviously don't know exactly what the writers are thinking but you can be sort of eye-rolly about something without it being a big thing that really deeply bothers you. Because again, either TK is not really bothered which is why Carlos makes jokes, or TK is really bothered and Carlos makes jokes anyway because he doesn't care. Both can't be true, and if we go with the second one, then Carlos is an uncaring dick and I don't think that's the case. I feel like TK is more in the vein of "If I had a nickel for every time someone I love told me about a secret marriage I'd have two nickels which isn't a lot but it's still weird that it's happened twice".

[trkstrnd]

hi yall i have a concept to make a carlos reyes edit to good luck babe by chappell roan but i am also deathly aware of the sacredness of the sapphic sphere and my place in it. this is my question:

would me making a carlos reyes edit to an inherently sapphic song be sapphic erasure?

i have a couple ways of looking at it for context before you answer.

one: as a lesbian, i am aware of the lack of representation we have in most media, and why chappell’s recent success is really important to the sapphic community. sapphic stories need to be told, and they don’t need to end in tragedy. sapphic relationships have been on the far end of the ‘bury your gays’ trope for far too long, so us being loud and existing in pop culture spaces is important.

two: on the other hand, as a lesbian, as a direct result of the lack of sapphic representation, i have found comfort and identity who identifies as a man. his relationship with his queerness is a lot like mine. i had to come out on three separate occasions just to make sure my parents knew, because they didn’t speak about it, didn’t talk about it with me, didn’t do much at all to let me know that i was seen. I felt shamed, forgotten, like i wasn’t enough, and carlos’s story follows these same things, and grappling with the fact that you aren’t perfect, and you never will be. he married a woman out of comphet, just to win his parents approval. i’ve dated men for the same reasons. i relate to carlos so much, and i relate to the song so much, and it would be really therapeutic to express this part of my life through these means. i just don’t want to inadvertently hurt the community that i’m a part of.

two and a half: the song blew up on tiktok,,, straight men are using it for povs, and that feels icky to me but they’re not catching much flack for taking it completely out of context (you could fit “i hate to say it, but i told you so.” in any context, im finding).

if yall wanna talk about it, ask me in my ask box or dms or even comment on the post! thank you so much!

tl;dr: would i, a sapphic person be harming the sapphic community by making an edit to a sapphic song where the character highlighted is non-sapphic, but queer?

ty ily all !!

[guardian-angle22]

It’s great that the show pointed out the problems with Texas Rangers and their past and who they still are now. The fact that they had it stated by a cop, at one point being in uniform, made it lose any impact.

Absolutely.

Do I think maybe the writers had good intentions with that? and Rafael especially probably thought they were doing a great thing by highlighting that stuff in his argument with Gabriel? Yes, I do.

However, not only is Carlos’ entire point basically null and void by virtue of sheer hypocrisy as you stated… but they also set Carlos up in that scene to later be corrected by Andrea, who gets to have a lovely little speech about all the good the Texas rangers has done and still do. So they present this opinion given by Carlos for sheer reason of 1). making him, the patrol officer, appear to be a “good cop” but then also 2). making him see the “error of his thinking” and realize the rangers aren’t as bad as he claimed (also enforced by later in the episode saying Gabriel solved the big corruption issue already apparently? Did I get that right? I zoned out when everyone was screaming all at once).

Copganda 101

Plus, I bet you dollars to donuts that next season will have Carlos either 1). Becoming a ranger and taking up the family “legacy” or 2). Going on a more subdued version of a vigilante justice quest.

@ Tim/writers: I know you’re busy right now trying to get rich ceo assholes to pay you a fair wage and I respect it, support it, and am rooting for you. But! I have a suggestion for Carlos… this fiasco makes him see how corrupt all of law enforcement is… he goes to work at the call center. With Grace. The epic team up so many people seems to crave. Everyone wins! 🎉

I am willing to hear any and all suggestions for alternative career paths for that beautiful man who deserves a better job.

[alidravana]

There's something bugging me about this episode and I'm trying to figure out how to explain why...it was too much? The grief part at the beginning was excellent, I think focusing solely on that would have been more impactful than the drug issues that were basically forgotten all three seasons until now...and then TK saying the only thing that stopped him from using again was Owen interupting him and not the lessons that Gwyn left him with...

(Not saying I didn't want to see some of the flashbacks and that journey TK had with Gwyn, but this could been done spaced out along the way...along with some mentions to his past addiction other than I can't take pain medication after being whumped and traumatized, laying in a hospital bed).

Everyone acted their butts off...but this story deserved more time. I hope we come back to a lot of the issues brought up in this episode instead of dropping them like a hot potato.

[marjansmarwani]

We all know that Carlos came home to burnt pizza bc TK def forgot to take it out bc he’s a disaster (affectionate)

A reasonable assumption, Anon.

The real question is, where does this fall in pizza discourse? 🤔

[knee615]

Fandom is for everyone (except people who don’t respect unspoken fandom rules)

As someone who was on the internet at a stupidly young age and watched social media begin to form in the way we know it now (more specifically, fandoms on social media), and someone whose parents didn’t do a great job at making sure I was being safe on the internet (even now, as people who have had iPhones since 2012-ish, they don’t understand technology very much), I feel pretty qualified to talk about this topic.

For as long as I can remember, I have been a "fangirl." My first real concert was the Jonas Brothers when I was 6 and I showed up in a head-to-toe Jonas Brothers outfit. All of my school supplies had their faces on them, I owned like four of the same shirts because they came in different colors. My walls were covered in posters. This translated to Miley Cyrus/Hannah Montana, and later to Big Time Rush, Youtubers, and now, for the most part, TV shows and actors. I'm someone who gets hyper-fixated on things, so it's easy for me to let my life become engulfed in fandoms. But fandom spaces on the internet have transformed from something I loved to something I avoid at all costs. It's pretty obvious that at some point within the last few years, fandom has become less about community and more about weird hive-mind behavior, performance activism, and pseudo friendships with the people the fandom is for, especially when the fandom centers around real people. Now, I think that the rise of content creators as "celebrities" is the point that flipped the narrative. The close connection these CC's created with their community, typically beginning when they were small enough to be able to do that, created this weird sense of entitlement within fandom spaces. This is especially true in streamer spaces, as there is a lot of interaction between the fans and the creators. They lost the sense of community when self-entitled bullies took over. As someone who has been in fandoms for as long as I can remember (seriously, I had Dance Moms Instagram/Twitter fan pages. I’ve been here for too long), I obviously understand how it feels to be acknowledged by your favorite people, whether a singer, creator, actor, etc. It’s validating and it’s special. But it’s important to remember that they are real people and deserve respect as all people do. And it’s also important to remember that fandoms aren’t about validation, they’re about celebration and community. I met my best friend on Instagram through our Big Time Rush fan pages when I was 12. I’m 21 now. I still follow people on twitter that I met three fandoms ago. I bonded with my irl friends over fandoms. Does it feel great when my faves recognize me or acknowledge me? Yes, absolutely. But that’s not the reason I’m in fandoms. I don’t interact in fandom spaces much anymore; there’s too much negativity and I just don’t have the energy to sift through it anymore. What once was a space that celebrated everything and had intelligent discourse became a high school cafeteria, loaded with "popular" bullies who put down anyone who has a differing opinion than them. I remember when fan accounts first started to appear on social media. It was something we did our best to hide from the people it was about because we were terrified to accidentally make them uncomfortable. We did the work to find a healthy balance, and now all of that work is being ignored because people feel entitled to their faves attention… and that’s weird. Some basic rules I think people need to be reminded of: 1. Fandom is for everyone, whether or not you have the same opinions. Fandom is about respecting everyone and celebrating the beauty of perspectives 2. Privacy still exists. Even if something is “public knowledge.” If the person involved didn’t put it out there, its none of your fucking business 3. Stop tagging people in things they may be uncomfortable with. 4. People are allowed to have opinions, and as long as they’re keeping those opinions in their little fandom bubble, leave the alone. If you don’t like it, block them. You’re not going to get a cookie for defending your fave from something they probably don’t even have a problem with 5. It’s okay to call your fave out for problematic behavior, and it’s okay to allow your fave to learn and grow from their mistakes. They’re not perfect, stop putting them on a pedestal. 6. For some people, fandom is about escapism. Respect that. Stop forcing performance activism on people. More often than not, fandoms focused on real people are about grown ass adults. I promise you, they don’t need an army on the bird app defending their honor. If they have a problem, they have a voice and they can use it. You’re causing more problems and putting more attention on things by throwing a hissy fit. I don’t know what you expect them to do. This isn’t 2010 Wattpad fanfiction—they’re not going to see you defending them and fly to your house to marry you. There’s a difference between someone doing something extremely damaging (i.e., leaking personal information) and having a different opinion than you. The bottom line is that everyone is going to experience a fandom in a different way. People have different experiences and lives and views. All of those things will shape how a person sees others. And that’s a good thing. If everyone had the same fandom view, it wouldn’t be interesting. You would be able to follow one account and get all of the content you need. But that’s no fun. It’s so much more fun to have a well-rounded experience that is shaped and full of various views and ideas. Expecting everyone to have the same fandom experience as you and condemning them when they don’t is ruining the fandom experience for everyone. Treat people with kindness. Tailor your fandom experience by blocking/muting/unfollowing people you don’t want to see. And mind your fucking business. I promise you, you’ll have a better time in a fandom if you stop being so concerned about everyone else and just dive into your love and enjoyment of something. To conclude, stop ruining fandom spaces with your sense of entitlement and brown-nosing and just let people enjoy something while the world continues to implode on itself at an alarming rate.

TL/DR: mind your fucking business and leave people alone (as long as theyre being respectful and keeping discourse out of tags/mentions

[captainsassmanes]

I'm just disappointed we didn't get to see the first "I love you" and the house key exchange