#AGoT Chapter 21

[stromuprisahat]

“You gave me help when I needed it,” Jon Snow said. “I gave you nothing,” Tyrion said. “Words.” “Then give your words to Bran too.” “You’re asking a lame man to teach a cripple how to dance,” Tyrion said. “However sincere the lesson, the result is likely to be grotesque. Still, I know what it is to love a brother, Lord Snow. I will give Bran whatever small help is in my power.” “Thank you, my lord of Lannister.” He pulled off his glove and offered his bare hand. “Friend.” Tyrion found himself oddly touched. “Most of my kin are bastards,” he said with a wry smile, “but you’re the first I’ve had to friend.” He pulled a glove off with his teeth and clasped Snow by the hand, flesh against flesh. The boy’s grip was firm and strong.

A Game of Thrones- Chapter 21 (George R. R. Martin)

[nedstarkfortnite]

Mikey reads ASOIAF: Daenerys I AGOT

Short summary: Daenerys is taken to Khal Drogo’s manse along with Illyrio and Viserys, who are planning to wed her to the khal. As the story progresses we get some glimpses of Targaryen history.

Viserys

Viserys can be hard for me to assess sometimes. I’m trying to avoid thinking of his show actor who definitely made him seem more goofy than the books did, but I do still think he’s one of those unintentionally comedic characters. It’s easy to laugh at him for being so naive and inflated, but it is also hard to look past the depressing aspects of his life we see through Daenerys’ recollections and observations. Throughout this entire chapter (and dare I say his entire life) he seems like a hurt child lashing out and simultaneously begging for approval. “The beggar king” is sadly just true. Let's settle on "hurt people hurt people". It's overall just tragic for the both of them, though Viserys is 21 and needs to grow up a little.

Frequently mentioned throughout this chapter is how inappropriate he is toward Dany: pinching her nipple, mentioning her breasts and wanting her to “show them off more”, you name it. There’s a bit of an obsession going on with her supposed “womanhood”, though I will not call her anything but a child and I literally do not care to hear anything else. “Medieval standards blah blah blah” even Viserys worries that she is too young!! Example cited below: 

“Are you sure that Khal Drogo likes his women this young?” - Viserys, to Illyrio

Even in this setting Daenerys is a questionable choice of a bride.

Viserys is said to be 8 years older than Daenerys, making them 21 and 13. I want to make note of this because Daenerys later on has a pattern of seeking out men that are frankly too old for her, even being flattered by Jorah’s inappropriate interest in her (Jorah as far as I can tell is 50 or older…). Not to be an armchair psychologist, but I do wonder if his sexually charged treatment of her has traumatized her in some ways, making her think this is normal and replicating a dynamic that feels “familiar”.

The show did kind of make Viserys less threatening, I suppose. If I recall correctly there will be more instances of him wanting to or outright sexually abusing her throughout her childhood and in the present. He’s a lot harder to feel pity for in the books because of this, at least for me. A very well written character though, and sadly not all too unrealistic. Men can be quite horrible when they feel humiliated.

Daenerys

Short version: Poor babygirl

Long version: This first look at Daenerys is heartbreaking to me. Beyond the abuse and objectification she endures you can just tell she has no fight in her, standing silently by Viserys trembling, frozen in fear. Even in her thoughts she can come off as timid, usually her thoughts are almost absent in some scenes. When they do appear she seems to be caught up in dread, attempting to dream herself away like Viserys does but failing to do so (not surprising all things considering). This is a shadow of a person and it is, albeit brilliantly written, awful to read.   

A crucial difference between her in Dance and AGOT is how unambitious she comes off in this first part of her journey. All she wants is to “go home to the red door in Braavos and the lemon tree” (we’re NOT opening the Lemongate can here), that’s it. It is as if her ambitions moving forward are null, completely absent. Even when Viserys insists on their supposedly shared dream of returning to Westeros she has to be reminded of the fact, and does not share his enthusiasm at all. I do hope this will be touched upon in future books. Maybe Daenerys grew to be some grand player in the game, but I suspect her true heart might still be in this early childhood memory. Would she be willing to lay down her claim in order to have it back? Or maybe this is a lost cause, one she will not return to as she embraces her nature as a Targaryen, “Fire and Blood”. 

Anyway, my thoughts on this chapter is that I want to hold and protect Daenerys. Not to be aggressive but I genuinely, truly despise the “fans” that romanticized her relationship with Khal Drogo or even made excuses for it (Mostly show fans because Jason Mamoa is hot or whatever). A blind person could see that she was never given any choice in this and that her “love” for Drogo is just a survival instinct commonly known as “Fawn”; in order to avoid a dangerous situation a victim will appease and placate the abuser, sometimes even convincing themselves that this reflects their own feelings. Even for this setting her marriage to him is seen as sketchy, and I don’t think the world of ASOIAF should stand immune to a contemporary critical analysis either. After all, is that not what GRRM wants to do? I doubt he considers this patriarchal system an endgame, we will most likely see some changes in it after the Long Night ends. The point with this series as I see it has been to highlight how dark and unpleasant the fantasy world is below the surface. 

I don’t know if it’s mostly limited to the show (which is still fucked up and insane btw), but just so you know I am the world’s biggest Dany x Drogo hater. It can burn in hell. It’s truly disgusting and not a single line of copium from Daenerys’ later chapters can change that fact. Yes she is deluded about her own feelings, and I will stand by it. Literally nothing will change my mind. His treatment of her is traumatizing.

Ugh. Not looking forward to her upcoming chapters. 

[redwolf17]

Would you be able to do a quick age recap of where everyone is at after the most recent Olyvar chapter? And how old do we think Margaery is? I never got a great read on it through the books or show, except that I think she’s supposed to be much older in the show. Also, did Theon age during his time as tree food? Or was he kind of in a stasis, as it seems like his muscles didn’t desiccate?

Love your work!

Happy to clarify! Here’s some ages as of February, 305 AC

Edythe: 48

Paul the Pious: Mid 40s

Bel: 42

Jaime and Cersei: 38

Theon: 27ish

Meria/Rhaenys: 25

Olyvar/Aegon: 23

Meera: 22

Robb: 21

Jon: 21

Margaery: 21

Sansa: 18

Arya: 15 (turning 16 in March)

Bran: 14

Rickon: 9

Margaery’s age is explicitly stated in text; she’s 14ish in AGOT and 16 in AFFC, so the same age as Robb.

[tartheanmaid]

Can I ask why you ship Jon and Sansa? (I'm assuming that's what the Jonsa means in your bio) Not attacking you or anything just curious. They are half siblings and while Jon was a bit separated due to him being the bastard they still were raised together and he's much older. Ik incest and weird relationships is normal in GOT but still

i’m not much involved in the show fandom anymore, but going by medieval and asoiaf/book lore, jonsa isn’t incest. i can direct you to much more lovely people who could explain this way better if you like, but they aren’t half-siblings. ned is not jon’s father, rhaegar is. jon is lyanna’s son (ned’s sister).

westeros is very culturally against incest in all forms, but their definition of it is quite different from the modern world’s. i’m the kind of person who, when i engage in a piece of media, i try to do it through the lens of someone who would actually live there. that is why i don’t consider jonsa incest, because in westeros cousin marriage is not only accepted but extremely common. lysa, sansa’s aunt, wished to marry sansa to her cousin/lysa’s son sweetrobin. additionally, ned, lyanna, brandon, and benjen’s parents (the starklings paternal grandparents), were first cousins.

the only kinds of incest westeros and essos condemn are sibling/sibling, aunt/nephew, mother/son, and father/daughter.

i believe george intentionally didn’t make them interact at all in the chapters where they’re both in the same location. i also believe it is sansa, not arya or jeyne poole or alys karstark who is the girl in grey.

why do i ship them in a general sense? 1. i believe they are compatible and would work well together as a couple based on their own internal wants and feelings about love and marriage.* 2. if sansa is to hold some sort of northern leadership, she must marry a man who is willing to give up all of his titles + name for her so that they may continue house stark. jon is the perfect fit for that in my opinion ( @istumpysk has a great meta on this titled “find sansa’s husband”).

* “Sansa, two years older, drew the crown prince, Joffrey Baratheon. He was twelve, younger than Jon or Robb, but taller than either, to Jon's vast dismay. Prince Joffrey had his sister's hair and his mother's deep green eyes. A thick tangle of blond curls dripped down past his golden choker and high velvet collar. Sansa looked radiant as she walked beside him, but Jon did not like Joffrey's pouty lips or the bored, disdainful way he looked at Winterfell's Great Hall.” - JON I, AGOT

as for the age gap, that part does make me sort of uneasy, but i do believe george feels the same way about that. which i think is why he tried so hard to make the 5 year gap work (if you’re not familiar, the 5 year gap was a scrapped time jump that was to happen in between ADWD and TWOW). if the 5 year gap had ended up working out, sansa would be around 17/18, and jon around 20/21. their age gap may seem like a lot because of how young they are, but when you age them up just a bit it starts to make a little more sense.

hope this helps! /gen

[shieldofrohan]

I say it again... if you keep giving the villains' side to the readers, they will be more interested with THEM and THEIR FEELINGS and THEIR STORIES (no one cares about Bran because he has like 20 povs in 5 books).

This is such a great point 👏 . From what I have seen in the fandom , people are just not invested in Bran's character . Once in a while you get to see an analysis on his character and that too in Tumblr whereas it's just not present in other forums . D&D are to be blamed for the way they took him out of a season and then later just wheeled him around before crowning king . But the thing is as you said even in the books , Grrm hasn't done enough work with him considering he is the fantasy protagonist and the endgame emperor .

One of my favourite character in the series is Jaime and in the fandom he is also someone people are invested in and it's interesting to see how much material we get to see of him after he is given POV status . As you said , giving more page time means that the readers will be invested in their character's arc regardless of whether they like them or hate them . Just in 2 books his chapters closely number to Bran's in five books .

Hello Anon,

Previous ask: XX

Other asks about this: XY , XZ

If Sansa and Bran weren't main characters then I would understand author's choice of giving fewer chapters to them but they are the MOST IMPORTANT ones according to his ending.

Like I said before Martin is (fortunately and unfortunately) too obsessed with gray characters. Because he can go both ways in extrem measure with them. They can do sth really fcked up but also can do sth really heroic. Believe me if Jon wasn't at Wall he wouldn't have these many chapters. Because Jon is not that grey like Tyrion, Jaime, Daenerys, Arya... He is lucky that he is the only POV from Wall.

In AGOT, we have Arya, Ned and Sansa in KL and do you know which Stark girl had the more chapters? SANSA. I know... shocking but also tells a lot (btw she has only ONE chapter more than Arya- Sansa: 6, Arya:5) because KL was Sansa's story not Arya's. Bran had even more (7) because he was truly a main character back then (Jon had 9 btw) with him seeing Jaime/Cersei, finding wolves, coma dreams etc

AGOT:

Jon: 9

Bran: 7

Sansa: 6

Arya: 5

In ACOK... things change a little..

Arya: 10

Jon and Sansa: 8

Bran: 7

Gonna pretend Arya's chapters were necessary (she didn't need more than 8 if you ask me...)

ASOS:

Arya: 13

Jon: 12

Sansa: 7

Bran: 4

(I understand people thought Bran was dead but come on... and 13 for Arya is just absurd and ASOS was Sansa's book for real... but then again hiding her POV was necessary for keeping Tyrion in the dark I guess... whatever)

AFFC:

Sansa: 3

Arya: 3

(why? Also lots of new povs)

ADWD:

Jon: 13

Bran: 3

Arya: 2

(why the fck she was in AFFC too then?)

AFFC and ADWD were supposed to be one book so:

Jon: 13

Arya: 5

Sansa: 3

Bran: 3

(lol even Arya suffered because of the new POVs)

Jon, Tyrion and Daenerys are the most popular trio for a reason as you can see. Even after the new POVs, they didn't suffer much...

ADWD:

Jon: 13

Tyrion: 12

Daenerys: 10

This is why people believe that these three are the ThreE HeadS Of thE gEcKo...

And Arya follows them behind because in total (minus TWOW):

Tyrion: 47

Jon: 42

Arya: 33

Daenerys: 31

OUR FUTURE KING AND QUEEN MEANWHILE:

Sansa: 24

Bran: 21

Tyrion is in the middle of every fcking thing and Martin loves writing his man-pain so he has the most chapters.

Jon has his own arc and he is the only pov of that storyline.

Daenerys also has her own story (I think Dany should have had more than Jon ngl).

Arya ??? IDK. Martin loves writing her. Her having more chapters than Dany is just stupid.

Sansa suffers in ACOK and ASOS because of Tyrion (oh the irony) and Bran suffers in ASOS because... idk- he is hiding etc.

I think the problem is that Bran has a very limited storyline. He has one purpose and very few people around him. And Grrm can't go too further with his visions because of spoilers. Still his story is more interesting than Arya's. It is funny that Arya is the real CaMeRa most of the time but whatever... we should keep pretending that her too many povs were necessary (there was no way for Grrm to cut things out you know... they were all necessary).

ANYWAY... Can Grrm mend this mess? Realistically: maybe?

ALIVE POVs:

ARYA

SANSA

JON

TYRION

BRAN

DAENERYS

JAIME

CERSEI

AERON

BARRISTAN

JONCON

ARIANNE

THEON

ASHA

MELISANDRE

DAVOS

SAMWELL

VICTARION

BRIENNE

AREO HOTAH

ESSOS:

Arya (Braavos)

Tyrion, Barristan, Victarion, Daenerys (Meereen, Dothraki Sea)

WESTEROS:

STORMLANDS: JonCon, Arianne

KING'S LANDING: Cersei

REACH: Samwell, Aeron

DORNE: Areo

RIVERLANDS: Jaime, Brienne

VALE: Sansa

NORTH: Davos, Theon, Asha

WALL: Jon, Melisandre

BEYOND WALL: Bran

THE MAP:

I made this map to see the last locations of POV characters (might be wrong so let me know). And according to this map, some POVs can be cut. For example:

Asha will tell Theon's story too -> fewer Theon POVs. And also we'll read about Stannis' North story via these two characters. And we'll hear about Ramsay too.

Brienne and Jaime are in the same place in Riverlands right now -> My guess: Brienne POV will be cut to keep Jaime in dark till meeting with Stoneheart.

Jon and Melisandre are at Wall and he is dead.. lol -> so Mel will cover for Wall story: Others, Watch, Wildlings

JonCon and Arianne are both in Stormlands and they are about to meet -> more Arianne POV is my guess. We'll see the foundation of Martell/Aegon alliance

Aeron and Sam are in Reach -> My guess: we'll read the aftermath of Euron's antics via Sam

Barristan is in Meereen, Tyrion is near Meereen, Victarion is on Meereen's Bay. -> I think we'll read the Battle of Fire from all of them. And after Daenerys returns from Dothraki Sea (Vaes Dothrak) with the ultimate Khalaasar her POVs will suffer because of Tyrion and others. And this will also help to author to keep Dany's established FireAndBlood persona in subtext.

Lonely POVS and my predictions (time to bullish*t folks):

Arya in Braavos -> No idea don't care... but my guess: I think we might read the Red Wedding 2.0 and Nymeria's pack's contribution via her (warging). She'll be in trouble with Faceless Men probably and she'll need to leave Braavos. I think she might come to Riverlands because her story is really intertwine with Stoneheart I feel like she should face the reality of pursuing revenge. After that she'll probably head North.

Areo in Dorne -> If I am not wrong he is after Darkstar with Obara and Ser Balon Swann. We might hear about Doran's plans via him but other than that I am not sure.

Cersei in King's Landing -> Kevan is dead, Jaime is not coming and there is no one to stop her. She is gonna blow up the sept, the death of Margaery, the alliance with Tyrells end... We might read about Aegon taking KL via her.

Sansa in Vale: Shadrich or sth else happens, she'll travel North with Brienne imo. She'll meet Jon at Wall and reunite with Jeyne Poole

Davos in White Harbor -> He will go Skagos to find Rickon. And after that he'll probably sail for Wall and after his arrival I feel like Mel, Selyse and Shireen will join Stannis because we know that he'll burn Shireen and we'll read these via Mel.

Bran: Some visions, warging, Bloodraven, sth sth sth, Hodor dies and they'll go back South.

TWOW and ADOS will have prologue and epilogue POVs.

We know that TWOW prologue will have Jeyne Westerling. So the book will start with Jeyne and others' journey to Crag (Westerlands). Nothing good will happen...

I really can't imagine the other prologue and epilogues. Sorry.

But there are some plots that is set to happen so make your own guesses for these:

Myrcella and Nymeria Sand and I think Trysten Martell will go KL and Cersei was planning an attack to kill Trysten on the way but she'll frame it like Tyrion did it (Doran knows this plan). It would be tragic if Myrcella dies during this..

Martin kind of said that we'll have a Casterly Rock POV. This could be a prologue/epilogue or maybe Tyrion/Cersei/Jaime in CR.

Red Wedding 2.0

ok... I am done.

So as you can see many POVs will be cut. Martin should use this to give more voice and build up to characters like Sansa and Bran.

WILL HE?? Fck me if I know. Hopefully.

HEY!! I love Jaime too even though he is a jerk, he just makes me laugh and I like his oaths dilemma. And yes look at how fans' approach to him changed when Martin made him a POV character. He is a villain and yet I care about his story because Martin is filling pages with him.

The more chapters he gives to a character more interesting they'll become to the readers. Simple math really.

Occasionally people become fans of very minor characters with sparse content BUT in those cases readers KNOW that these people won't end up as the heroes/protagonists.

So the author makes his statement with chapters numbers and so far Martin's: "Bran is the protagonist" statement doesn't match with his writing choices.

Let me repeat it again: I understand why he is not writing 30 sth Bran chapters. Because he can't reveal too much but while doing this he fails to make readers CARE about Bran. Martin should find a balance. In Sansa's case... he can remedy it more easily in TWOW and ADOS than Bran's case. We'll see. It is all about planning the story and shaping the reaction according to his statements.

Thanks for the ask, have a nice day.

[istumpysk]

Operation Stumpy Re-Read

AGOT: Tyrion III (Chapter 21)

"Oh, I think that Lord Tyrion is quite a large man," Maester Aemon said from the far end of the table. He spoke softly, yet the high officers of the Night's Watch all fell quiet, the better to hear what the ancient had to say. "I think he is a giant come among us, here at the end of the world."

The thing about Maester Aemon, is that he’s kind of an idiot.

Blind in more ways than one, you might say.

+.+

The Wall is a hundred leagues long. Think on that. Should an attack come, I have three men to defend each mile of wall."                 

"Three and a third," Tyrion said with a yawn.

“Well actually,”

+.+

"Fool," the raven agreed. Tyrion glanced up. The bird peered down at him with those beady black eyes, ruffling its wings. "Fool," it called again.

Somehow a bird is smarter than the healer.

+.+

“Gared was near as old as I am and longer on the Wall," he went on, "yet it would seem he forswore himself and fled. I should never have believed it, not of him, but Lord Eddard sent me his head from Winterfell.

At least someone questioned it.

+.+

Mormont was deaf to the edge in his voice. "The fisherfolk near Eastwatch have glimpsed white walkers on the shore."         

This time Tyrion could not hold his tongue. "The fisherfolk of Lannisport often glimpse merlings."    

I love that the brilliant, well read Tyrion Lannister is shown repeatedly mocking what’s beyond the Wall.

+.+

“You could put all this in a letter, you know."    

"Rickon can't read yet. Bran …" He stopped suddenly. "I don't know what message to send to Bran. Help him, Tyrion."

"What help could I give him? I am no maester, to ease his pain. I have no spells to give him back his legs."                 

"You gave me help when I needed it," Jon Snow said.

"I gave you nothing," Tyrion said. "Words."                 

"Then give your words to Bran too."

Hey guys, did you hate reading this as much as I did?

+.+

Tyrion found himself oddly touched. "Most of my kin are bastards," he said with a wry smile

Yo, did he just say that? 💀

+.+

Far off to the north, a wolf began to howl. Another voice picked up the call, then another. Ghost cocked his head and listened. "If he doesn't come back," Jon Snow promised, "Ghost and I will go find him." He put his hand on the direwolf's head.                 

"I believe you," Tyrion said, but what he thought was, And who will go find you? He shivered.

Howl.

Final thoughts:

We have our first Tyrion chapter that could have been condensed to 4 paragraphs.

3 down, 46 to go. :(

-> return to menu <-

[jackoshadows]

@nymerias-heart suggested a while back that we do some TWoW speculation while waiting for the next book.

So I was wondering if ASoIaF readers on here could reblog the character list below with the chapter count they think each character would get in The Winds of Winter. Would be really interesting to see this. If we have enough data we could do some statistics.

ADwD was already a big book with 16 POVs and 73 chapters. Jon had the maximum with 13 and several characters had 1 or 2 chapters.  In TWoW, GRRM has to fit in 20 POV characters and cover a lot of ground and story. And we only have two books left to finish the story.

The list is below. Just enter the number of chapters next to character names. You can also enter 0, if you don’t think the character will have a POV chapter.

I’ll go first.

Aeron Greyjoy... 3

Areo Hotah ...2

Arianne Martell ... 3

Arya Stark ...8

Asha Greyjoy ...3

Barristan Selmy ...4

Bran Stark ...8

Brienne of Tarth ...3

Cersei Lannister ...6

Daenerys Targaryen ...7

Davos Seaworth ...4

Jaime Lannister ...3

Jon Snow ...3

Jon Connington ...3

Melisandre ...4

Samwell Tarly ..3

Sansa Stark ...4

Theon Greyjoy ...5

Tyrion Lannister ...7

Victarion Greyjoy ...3

POV chapter count: 86

Prologue: GRRM has mentioned that we will see Jeyne Westerling. Which means this will be in the Westerlands. We may see Edmure Tully and possibly the Blackfish through this prologue.

Epilogue: The Wall and the arrival of the Others.

Location wise split of above chapters:

Essos/Vaes Dothrak/Meereen/Yunkai/Dany landing in Westeros: 21

The North: 12

Braavos/Arya in Westeros: 8

Beyond the Wall: 8

The Wall: 7

Stormlands/Young Griff’s campaign to KL: 6

King’s Landing: 6

Riverlands: 6

Oldtown: 6

Vale: 4

Dorne:2

Total: 88 chapters up from the 73 chapters in ADwD. The chapters could be of shorter length though, if GRRM cuts down on descriptions of feasts and travelogues. This is where his editor could massively help and GRRM has mentioned going back and tweaking things. For example, that Arianne sample chapter from TWoW would have her get to Young Griff instead of spending two chapters just traveling.

If we look at word counts:

A Game of Thrones: 4082 words per chapter (298k in 73 chapters)

A Clash of Kings: 4657 (326k in 70 chapters)

A Storm of Swords: 5171 (424k in 82 chapters)

A Feast for Crows: 6522 (300k in 46 chapters)

A Dance with Dragons: 5781 words per chapter (422k in 73 chapters)

He needs to go back to AGoT chapter lengths and then perhaps the limitations of book binding would not be a problem.

Here is also a link to confirmed POV chapters in TWoW. But note that this may have changed since GRRM did state in a recent notablog post that he was going back and changing things - combining chapters, splitting them, rewriting them etc.

Arya: 4

Tyrion: 3

Barristan: 3

Arianne: 3

Melisandre: 2

Theon: 2

Aeron: 2

Areo Hotah: 2

Cersei: 2

Asha: 2

Jon Connington: 2

Sansa: 1

Victarion: 1

Bran: 1

Daenerys: 1

Davos: 1

Confirmed Chapters: 33

Below the cut I have put in some of my reasoning for my POV counts.

First, I think GRRM needs to refocus on his main story and characters and make his way to the ending. That means more focus on main characters and less time spend on secondary characters. He should be spending time getting Arya, Bran, Jon, Dany and Tyrion etc. to their endgames rather than spend more time world building and telling the stories of secondary characters.

For example, Bran had like 3 chapters in Feast and Dance while Brienne got 8! Who is the more important character here? There are two books left, Bran has to finish training, find out stuff about the Others, explore lands of always winter, return south of the wall, meet back up with Jon and Arya, play a big part in defeating the Others and become King.

GRRM has written material for an entire book with Arya in Braavos. Unfortunately ASoIaF is not about Arya’s FM adventures in Braavos and Arya needs to get back to Westeros. So George has chop, cut, edit and narrow down her story there to like maybe 5 chapters before she leaves.

So either George cuts out a lot of the fat, travelogues, world building and secondary characters or he needs 8/9 books to finish or he can change his endings to suit what he has written now or he can procrastinate and just not write.

Some of the things GRRM has said regarding TWoW.

GRRM teases about events in TWOW in this interview  

“I think we’re gonna start out with a big smash with the two enormous  battles,” Martin says. Presumably one of those battles refers to the  clash between Ramsay’s army and Stannis’s forces in the North (the  outcome of which was described in Ramsay’s letter in ADWD—perhaps  falsely?—but not actively shown), while the other takes place across the  narrow sea when Yunkai attacks Meereen in an attempt to overthrow  Daenerys. In addition, Martin says, “We have more deaths, and we have  more betrayals. We have more marriages.” Let the speculation begin. As  he’s noted before, Martin says the Dothraki are coming back into the  story (“in a big way”), and he says “a lot of stuff is happening at The  Wall.”

From his Notablog updates:

06/23/2020

Of late I have been visiting with Cersei, Asha, Tyrion, Ser Barristan,  and Areo Hotah.   I will be dropping back into Braavos next week.   Now you will have to excuse me.�� Arya is calling. I think she means to kill someone.

08/11/2020

Of late I have been spending a lot of time with the Lannisters.  Cersei  and Tyrion in particular.   I’ve also paid a visit to Dorne, and dropped  in to Oldtown a time or three.   In addition to turning out new  chapters, I’ve been revising some old ones (some very old)… including,  yes, some stuff I read at cons ages ago, or even posted online as  samples.   I tweak stuff constantly, and sometimes go beyond tweaking,  moving things around, combining chapters, breaking chapters in two,  reordering stuff.

08/15/2020

For the nonce, it is what it is.   My life is at home, on hold, and I am  spending the days in Westeros with my pals Mel and Sam and Vic and Ty. And that girl with no name, over there in Braavos.

Now, there are three things that GRRM just has to get done in TWoW, IMO.

Daenerys Targaryen has to resolve her Essos plot and get to Westeros by the end of TWoW.

Arya has to resolve her Braavos plot and get to Westeros

Bran has to advance a great deal in his plot/Bloodraven/Others etc. 

(Note: I suspect this is one of the reasons that TWoW is taking so long. By his own admission, Dany and Bran are the two characters GRRM finds hardest to write and my speculation is that there is a lot of these two characters in the next book.)

So I am going to assign Arya and Bran the most POV chapters - let’s say 8 each since they are the only POVs at their locations. The Essos plot is a complicated mess, but we have other POVs focused on there as well - Tyrion, Barristan and Victarion. And Tyrion will no doubt get a good chunk of chapters because GRRM likes to write for him and finds it easy to write for him.

For Oldtown I am assigning 6 chapters - 3 from Sam’s POV and 3 from Aeron giving us a look into what Euron is upto. Or it could be 4 for Sam and 2 for Aeron.

I suspect not much happening in Dorne until they align with Young Griff. Arianne and Jon Connington with a look into fAegon’s campaign advancing into KL. Some Vale stuff with Sansa and LF.

GRRM mentions spending a lot of time with Cersei and Tyrion. Cersei remains the only POV in KL and that’s an important location. Jaime and Brienne are together so GRRM can use either of them for Lady Stoneheart/the Brotherhood/Riverlands.

Lots happening at the wall. Big battles in the North and the resolution of the Northern plot - Theon/Asha with Stannis and Davos with Rickon/Northerners. I am not sure if Jon will get a POV - so I am giving him just 3 in case. I think the majority viewpoint will be Mel.

[hergrim]

Estimates of troop strengths in the Wot5K - A Game of Thrones

Introduction

One of several projects I’m working on at the moment is an analysis of the War of the Five Kings from a purely medieval military history point of view, taking a somewhat more critical view of the various commanders and their actions than is usual. Part of the ongoing process has been estimating the troop strengths and, where possible, the composition of armies. Since these calculations would derail any essay, I’ve decided to edit my notes into something resembling coherent thought and post them here, so I can just refer to them when I publish the essays.

Originally the essay series I’m working on was focused entirely on Robb, but it has now expanded to encompass the war more generally. As such, this first post will just be about the troop counts and army compositions featured in A Game of Thrones. As I do more on Renly, Stannis and Balon, I’ll post some estimates for A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords.

Robb Stark and the Northern host

The numbers given for Robb’s army in the ASOIAF wiki are actually what started me on the process of providing my own estimates for the various armies, as I think it makes a few significant methodological errors in the process, which has a knock on effect for how Robb’s decisions need to be interpreted. Primarily, I disagree with the numbers given for Robb at Moat Cailin and the breakdown of infantry vs cavalry.

Robb's initial Northern force consists of 19,500 men (AGOT, Catelyn VII), with slightly more than 1/4 being heavy cavalry (AGOT, Bran VI gives the figures of 3,300-3,400 heavy cavalry out of an initial muster of 12,000). This would suggest ~14,500 infantry and ~5,000 heavy cavalry in his Northern host.

Starting with with Bran VI, I have a slightly different interpretation of Maester Luwin’s breakdown of the heavy cavalry. His explanation of the numbers to Bran is that there are “Three hundred, perhaps four [hundred]” knights “among three thousand armored lances who are not knights.” The original calculator has taken this to mean that there are 300-400 knights in addition to the other 3000 heavy cavalry, and this is a perfectly valid interpretation of the sentence. However, I believe that Luwin’s use of “among” signals that the knights should be taken as part of the 3000, not as an addition to them for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, GRRM uses “among” in an inclusive sense elsewhere in AGOT. When Tyrion thinks on the Field of Fire, for instance, King Mern is “among” the 4000 men burned, not the 4001st man to be burnt, and Ned Stark thinks on the fact that he’d never spoken to Gregor during Greyjoy’s Rebellion because he was just “one knight among thousands”. So, while Luwin’s phrasing can be interpreted as meaning that the knights are there in addition to the other heavy horse, I think GRRM’s general use of “among” as an inclusive term means that they are intended to be included among the 3000 heavy horse, not separated from them.

Secondly, while the proportion of heavy horse gathered at Winterfell would be quite large even with the knights as part of the 3000, the general trend of what individual contingents we see is of very low proportions of heavy horse; just 13% of the Karstark forces is heavy horse (300 out of 2300), Roose has 500 mounted men (14%) out of 3500 men just before the Red Wedding (ASOS, Catelyn VI) and, in spite of having the highest number of landed knights, the Manderlys only send 240 horse (16% of 1500 men) to join Robb at Moat Cailin (AGOT, Catelyn VII). This general trend of low numbers of cavalry suggests to me that, when the numbers of cavalry can be taken in two ways, the smallest option should be taken.

This leads to the second major disagreement I have with the wiki’s army size estimates: the assumption that the 1500 Manderly men in Catelyn VII are in addition to the 18 000 men that Robb already has, not the contingent that brings Robb’s forces up to 18 000. This is a number that I’m more confident of; Robb’s statement that his "whole army” is 18 000 men strong comes well after the Manderlys have arrived, and the use of ravens for communications likely means that Robb knew how large the Manderly force was going to be shortly after they left White Harbour.

The reduction of Robb’s army to 18 000 total men and the reassessment of typical contingents from slightly over 25% cavalry to 13-16% cavalry also requires a lowering of the total cavalry from ~5000 at Moat Cailin to a maximum of 4000 cavalry. The number of foot, however, doesn’t need to be significantly reduced.

There are some references to Robb having 20 000 men (AGOT, Catelyn IX; ACOK, Catelyn II), which would better fit the wiki’s figure of 19 500 men. The problem is that we also hear of there being six thousand men with Robb at the Whispering Woods (AGOT, Catelyn X), which is far too few if we go with the wiki’s number of 5000 Northern cavalry for Robb. Between the Freys, the Mallisters (see below) and the other scattered Riverland remnants who join Robb, he’d have near enough to 7000 cavalry by the time of the Whispering Woods, and he wouldn’t be outnumbered by Jaime by 3:1, but by 2:1 (AGOT, Catelyn X).

My way of resolving this conflict is to suggest that both instances of people saying Robb having 20 000 men were exaggerations, not accurate accountings of size. In the first instance, Catelyn is angry with Lord Frey and is threatening him with the size of Robb’s army. In this scenario, claiming that there are “twenty thousand men” outside of Lord Walder’s walls is easier to say than “eighteen thousand men”, being a rounder number, and is also more threatening because it increases the size of Robb’s army. In the second instance, Renly is summarizing reports he has received of Robb’s strength, and there is plenty of room for errors to creep into these reports and for Renly to be generous in his estimates of Robb’s strength, as it only emphasizes the disparity in strength between Robb and Renly if Robb has fewer troops than Renly allows for (which he does).

On the other hand, Robb’s statement that he has 18 000 men occurs long enough after the Manderlys have arrived for him to have factored their force into his calculations and Catelyn is present with Robb at the Whispering Woods and should have a good idea of his strength. This is supported by Galbart Glover’s estimate of Jaime’s 14-15 000 men outnumbering Robb’s force by three to one. If Lord Glover is assuming that Jaime has 15 000 men, and Robb 6000 men, then Jaime outnumbers Robb by 2.5:1 which, rounded up, would be three to one. Additionally, Catelyn may have been overstating Robb’s numbers in her mind for exaggeration and contrast between his bodyguard of 30 and his army of 6000, neither of which she is certain can protect him from harm. Robb may well have had 5500-5750 men rather than 6000, which pushes the degree to which his is outnumbered by closer to three to one.

I think this proposal reconciles the contradictions in the text and offers support for my “low count” of 18 000 men. After all, if Galbart Glover is rounding up to 3 for effect, then why can’t Catelyn or Renly do the same?

Tywin’s army at the Green Fork

The size of Tywin’s army at the battle on the Green Fork is one of the few armies that we have a mostly reliable estimate for. Chella estimates it at twenty thousand men, “by their fires” and, based on the area the camp occupies, Tyrion thinks that she can’t be far wrong (AGOT, Tyrion VII). This is further reinforced in the next of Tyrion’s chapters where, after having settled in, he calls it a ”vast host twenty thousand strong”.

The one minor caveat here is that we don’t know how many men were with Addam Marbrand scouting Robb’s approach. The Neck is something in the order of 370 miles away from the Ruby Ford and the crossroads, which is 15 days of hard riding and 21-22 days of fast, horse preserving, riding. Marbrand is definitely operating quite near the Neck, as a number of his outriders are killed immediately after Robb debouches into the Riverlands, so there was an expectation that he would be facing down Robb’s army at some point and that means a sizeable force for protection during the retreat downriver to Tywin. There’s also evidence of skirmishing between Marbrand and Walder Frey’s forces, which relates to another point: the scouting force needed to be large enough to give Walder reason to pause and not immediately attack if he saw an opportunity.

Given the speed of communications between Marbrand and Tywin and the distance between the two forces, it’s likely that at least one castle with a resident Maester had been taken by Marbrand near Frey lands in order to reduce the delay in communication. While we haven’t heard of a such a castle being taken, it’s the only way that the message for Marbrand to return to Tywin, burning and harassing the Northern army, so soon after it entered the Riverlands.

Medieval scouting parties could range between dozens of men all the way up to several hundred men, largely depending on how far they were operating from their own army and how much opposition they expected to face. One of the largest forces was William Felton’s scouting/deeds of derring-do party prior to the Battle of Nájera, which had somewhere between four and five hundred men, approximately 200 of whom were men-at-arms and the remainder were mounted archers. This is probably the minimum size of Marbrand’s scouting force, although it would be mostly cavalry as mounted archers barely exist in ASOIAF, and I suspect that six or seven hundred men would be more likely based on the need to capture a castle for communications and then skirmish during the retreat.

Combined with Tyrion’s force, Marbrand’s scouting party might well raise Tywin’s army to 21 000 men rather than 20 000, especially if Tyrion and Chella were being conservative in their estimates of the army size and it was more than 20 000 strong.

This caveat aside, the important thing about Tywin’s army is that, unlike most armies in ASOIAF, we can create a fairly accurate breakdown of the army’s composition thanks to the detail GRRM goes into in describing the Battle on the Green Fork. He lists a total of 6800 cavalry (4000 on the right wing, 300 in the center and 2500 in reserve) and 2500 infantry (in reserve). From these figures, the mention of what the other troop types are and the overall size of the army, we can reconstruct the rest of the army.

Starting with the conventional 20 000 number to be conservative, we can remove 9300 men straight away, leaving us with 10 700 men. Of these, perhaps a thousand form the “swarming mass” that makes up the vanguard, as it’s likely that the “thousand other voices” screaming back at Gregor excludes Tyrion’s clansmen - any fewer and it’s hard to describe it as a “swarming mass” of low quality cavalry. This leaves us with 9 700 men to account for.

The center of Twyin’s army is made up of “squares” of pikemen flanked on either side by “three long lines” of archers, with “rank on rank” of men-at-arms behind the archers and a reserve of 300 knights. This is where we fully enter the realms of speculation.

To begin with, we don’t know what exactly is meant by “squares” of pikemen. Medieval pike columns could contain as many as 6000 men, while early modern squares might have as few as 100, so any size estimate is going to involve a lot of guesswork. I’ve gone back and forward about how to interpret this phrase and have finally decided to treat the “squares” as distinct units for the purposes of command, but tactically in a similar manner to 15th century dismounted men-at-arms. As a result, I’m estimating their strength as 250 men - to be deployed 10 deep - and their total number to be 3000 men (12 pike squares). This allows for a reasonable width of line in the center (300 yards), but also adequate depth to resist cavalry charges.

Estimates for the archers and men-at-arms follow directly on from this. The archers need to be in thousands because, as Philippe de Commynes points out, they’re only useful when employed in such numbers. Given that fully half of Jaime’s infantry are archers, I’m inclined to assign 4000 archers and 2700 men-at-arms to Tywin so that his overall archer to footsoldier ratio is about 1:2. The archers, each occupying a space of three feet, would occupy 667 yards on either side of the pikes and the men-at-arms, each occupying four and a half foot, would have the same frontage, but double the depth (6 ranks).

In all, I believe a conservative estimate of Tywin’s numbers, not counting Tyrion’s Clansmen, to be 7800 cavalry, 3000 pikemen, 2700 men-at-arms, 4000 archers and 2500 other infantry of an indeterminate type.

The Mallister forces

The number of men Jason Mallister can field, in spite of his importance during Robb’s initial campaign and later at the Battle of the Fords, has yet to be mentioned. While I’ve seen a number of estimates, with numbers as low as 1500-2000 men, the best estimate I’ve seen to date has been @racefortheironthrone‘s estimate in his Chapter-by-Chapter analysis of A Game of Thrones. 

However, some interesting information in Fire and Blood has caused me to rethink the relative military power of House Mallister, and I believe I’ve also found a semi-reliable method of estimating their forces. The particular passage can be found in the chapter titled “Aftermath - The Hour of the Wolf” and runs thus:

House Tully was unique amongst the great houses of Westeros. Aegon the Conqueror had made them the Lords Paramount of the Trident, yet in many ways they continued to be overshadowed by many of their own bannermen. The Brackens, the Blackwoods, and the Vances all ruled wider domains and could field much larger armies, as could the upstart Freys of the Twins. The Mallisters of Seagard had a prouder lineage, the Mootons of Maidenpool were far wealthier, and Harrenhal, even cursed and blasted and in ruins, remained a more formidable castle than Riverrun, and ten times the size besides.

The main point of interest is that the four military powerhouses of the Riverlands are the Brackens, the Blackwoods, the Vances and the Freys, while the Mallisters are excluded from this list. Instead, they are singled out as having a better pedigree than the Tullys which, although not excluding them from having marginally larger armies than their overlords, does quite firmly give them fewer men than House Frey.

In re-examining the question of Mallister manpower, I was inspired by @racefortheironthrone‘s comment that Jason Mallister must have had substantial forces, as his men covered four fords by themselves. Since we know roughly how many infantry Edmure was working with (8000, ACOK Catelyn V) and the minimum number of fords (12, ACOK Catelyn VI), we can get a reasonable maximum number of Mallister strength by assuming that all fords had an equal number of defenders and that there were only twelve being defended. This provides a maximum number of 2664 infantry and, based on typical Riverland horse to foot ratios, about 890 horse, for a total of 3554 men.

These are, however, maximum numbers. While the ford nearest to Riverrun is very broad and at least 50 yards wide (ACOK, Catelyn VI), it’s likely that the other fords were much narrower and more easily defended. It’s also probable that there were more than a dozen fords, and that Tywin was simply trying to break through a broad stretch of the river rather than overwhelm every ford. 

Based on the number of men stationed at the Blanchetaque by the French during the Crecy campaign (3500) and probable English numbers by that point (12-13 000), I would say that medieval commanders expected that someone attacking a ford needed an advantage of at least four to one to succeed. As Tywin can’t have had above 16 000 men at this point in the campaign and, being a cautious man who preferred to significantly outnumber his enemies, likely aimed to have an advantage of 5:1 over the defenders, the minimum number of men for House Mallister can be calculated as 1070 infantry and 357 cavalry, or 1427 men total.

This means there’s a difference of 2100 men between the maximum and minimum estimates, but I think we can discard anything close to the minimum number. 

Firstly, the Mallisters are clearly a powerful house, even if they aren’t one of the four military powers of the Riverlands. There’s no reason to suspect that they are significantly less powerful than House Tully, which must be capable of raising at least a couple of thousand men, and they may still even exceed the Tullys in military might given House Tully’s typical weakness compared to their lords.

Secondly, the Mallisters saw off what, if not an attack by the main Ironborn fleet, was at least a major assault by the Ironborn during Greyjoy’s Rebellion and were placed in charge of what was probably one of the largest fords across the Red Fork. You don’t fend off even part of the Iron Fleet or get selected to defend a ford at least fifty yards across unless you can bring a lot of men to bear in the defense of these fords.

Ultimately, I don’t see the Mallisters having much fewer than 2000 foot and 668 heavy horse. As I like round numbers and don’t believe the Mallisters have as many men as the maximum calculation provides, I’m going to give them a total of 3000 men as an optimistic estimate, divided between 2250 foot and 750 heavy horse. This makes them quite a powerful house militarily, but keeps them sufficiently under the minimum army size for a Riverlands powerhouse (4000) that they noticeably fall short of this status. 

[she-wolf-of-highgarden]

Major POV’s # of Chapters

*Because this is part of why some people mention things more than others ** I’m excluding TWoW from the count 

Arya Stark: 33

Brandon Stark: 21 (Non-POV in AFf)

Brienne of Tarth: 8 (Only POV in AFfC)

Catelyn Stark: 25 (Non-POV post ASoS)

Cersei Lannister: 12 (Non-POV until AFfC)

Daenerys Targaryen: 31 (Non-POV in AFfC)

Davos Seaworth: 13 (Non-POV until ACoK, Non-POV in AFfC)

Eddard Stark: 15 (Non-POV post AGoT)

Jaime Lannister: 17 (Non-POV until ASoS)

Jon Snow:  42 (Non-POV in AFfC)

Sansa Stark: 24 (Non-POV in ADwD) 

Theon Greyjoy: 13 (POV in ACoK) 

Tyrion Lannister: 47 (Non-POV in AFfC) 

[stromuprisahat]

Ser Alliser Thorne was the only man at table who did not so much as crack a smile. “Lannister mocks us.” “Only you, Ser Alliser,” Tyrion said. This time the laughter round the table had a nervous, uncertain quality to it. Thorne’s black eyes fixed on Tyrion with loathing. “You have a bold tongue for someone who is less than half a man. Perhaps you and I should visit the yard together.” “Why?” asked Tyrion. “The crabs are here.” The remark brought more guffaws from the others. Ser Alliser stood up, his mouth a tight line. “Come and make your japes with steel in your hand.” Tyrion looked pointedly at his right hand. “Why, I have steel in my hand, Ser Alliser, although it appears to be a crab fork. Shall we duel?” He hopped up on his chair and began poking at Thorne’s chest with the tiny fork. Roars of laughter filled the tower room. Bits of crab flew from the Lord Commander’s mouth as he began to gasp and choke. Even his raven joined in, cawing loudly from above the window. “Duel! Duel! Duel!” Ser Alliser Thorne walked from the room so stiffly it looked as though he had a dagger up his butt. Mormont was still gasping for breath. Tyrion pounded him on the back. “To the victor goes the spoils,” he called out. “I claim Thorne’s share of the crabs.”

A Game of Thrones- Chapter 21 (George R. R. Martin)

[lions-and-dandelions]

Next up on my ACOK reread...

1. dany chapter number one!

2. feeling very sorry for her khalasar :( and the horses :(

3. love the bit where jorah tells dany about lynesse! i reckon so much of his feelings for dany come from the fact that she looks like lynesse.  

4. “Do you hate her?” “Almost as much as I love her.”

5. Why couldn’t jorah and dany’s relationship have stayed the way it was in AGOT though???

6. second (?) jon chapter. jon is still in many ways the same little castle-raised snob he was at the beginning of AGOT. “You’d call that a bed?”

7. Sam being a babe as always

8. people talk about the parallels between jon and dany’s storylines and it’s particularly evident in these two chapters- they’re both in deserted villages/cities in the middle of the wilderness, filled with bones, and with little to eat in the surrounding area.

9. arya’s next chapter (wow, she has a lot of chapters in ACOK. which isn’t a complaint! it makes sense as there’s a lot of content in her arc in this book.)

10. fuck you amory lorch.

11. arya screaming “winterfell!” whilst fighting...sweetling, you’re going to get found out.

12. also though, can we appreciate the perfection that is arya and hot pie killing a man together, arya screaming “winterfell!” and hot pie screaming “hot pie!”

13. arya being determined not to leave the little girl behind during the battle, she’s got such a big heart <3

14. catch me feeling more sorry for the horses and donkeys stuck in the burning barn than biter and rorge.

15. another tyrion chapter, and as always i love getting to read all his unspoken thoughts during his conversations with cersei!

16. can we appreciate how disgusting it is, these grown adults in positions of power sitting around discussing how to spread lies about a little girl’s parentage?! fuck them.

17. also who is this trade envoy from lys who made a joke comparing shireen to dragonstone’s gargoyles? because i need to fight him.

18. cersei and petyr flirting is the best!

19. pod is here! love my boy :)

20. dear god bronn don’t put ideas into tyrion’s head about joff and whores, please...

21. tyrion still thinks about tysha so much, god these two make me sad

22. chataya and alayaya are babes we stan <3

23. love varys and tyrion’s convos.

More coming soon! 

[asoiafdiscourseshitposts]

types of people by their favorite agot pov chapters

ned: stays up all night studying but then sleeps through their alarm; often relates to squidward; always being told to "lighten up"

catelyn: seems nice but silently judges all of you; subsists on caffeine and depression; remembers everyone's birthdays and makes them handmade cards

dany: loved the tiny sunglasses trend and tries to keep it relevant; gets into internet arguments a lot; either has a 10 step skincare routine or none at all

tyrion: records their own witty one-liners for future generations; quiet and unsuspecting but always knows the tea; resting bitch face

jon: always complains about "adulting"; often shows up 15 minutes late with starbucks; wears 3284085 layers because they can never decide if they're too hot or too cold

bran: gets nostalgic for the 90s even if they aren't actually a 90s kid; loves autumn weather, leaves changing colors, and dressing in layers; a dog person

sansa: read(s) teen magazines from the ages of 7 to 21; collects different flavors of lip balm; way too calm and collected when playing monopoly

arya: still gets up early on weekends to eat sugary cereal and watch cartoons; loves playing pranks; changes interests/uni or college major/career path with astounding regularity

[redwolf17]

I posted 951 times in 2022

That's 839 more posts than 2021!

70 posts created (7%)

881 posts reblogged (93%)

Blogs I reblogged the most:

@dianaprinceownsmyass

@istumpysk

@ladyshinga

@esther-dot

@nonbinary-bosmer

I tagged 184 of my posts in 2022

#the weirwood queen - 58 posts

#asoiaf - 57 posts

#asoiaf fic - 36 posts

#sansa stark - 27 posts

#asoiaf meta - 11 posts

#asoiaf art - 9 posts

#jon snow - 7 posts

#arya stark - 7 posts

#olyvar sand - 7 posts

#dracula daily - 6 posts

Longest Tag: 121 characters

#war crimes! against children! so many slaughtered villages?! henry kissinger is only alive because he’s too evil for hell

My Top Posts in 2022:

#5

Now for the Lannisters.

Fuck “pale flecks of gold”, Tywin gets green with hints of yellow. It is the green of dying grass, of bile, of envy.

Cersei and Jaime get a richer green; their vaunted beauty gets nothing from Tywin, but comes from Joanna.

Tyrion’s green eye has the same base yellow-green as Tywin, reflecting his place as Tywin’s true heir. His black eye was tricky, as I didn’t want the pupil and iris to blend together.

This batch of eyes really needs a second attempt when I have time, but I do like the overall colors.

See the full post

51 notes - Posted January 21, 2022

#4

Next up, the Martells. I need to do Doran and Ellaria later, as well as the sand snakes.

Elia has no canon eye color. I chose a rich brown, as bright as honey for her sweet disposition and as hard as amber for the strength hidden underneath. Hers are my favorite of all the eyes I drew.

Oberyn’s eyes are described as black “viper” eyes. I made them a very deep rich brown; solid and striking.

See the full post

54 notes - Posted January 21, 2022

#3

“It was the better part of an hour when the Count returned. "Aha!" he said; "still at your books? Good! But you must not work always. Come; I am informed that your supper is ready." He took my arm, and we went into the next room, where I found an excellent supper ready on the table.”

Hold up. I don’t remember if Dracula has any servants. Is he… cooking all Jonathan’s meals… himself?

I just. Dracula. In an apron? Spending an hour preparing an “excellent” supper?????

80 notes - Posted May 7, 2022

#2

My boyfriend and I are reading Dracula daily out loud to each other and discussing, and he has asked that I share these two theories because “tumblr loves that shit”

1) Theory the First

The three suitors, who are pals, deliberately agreed to all propose to Lucy on the same day, and whoever she accepted, wins

2) Theory the Second

Lucy’s three suitors track with the characters of Supernatural.

The neurotic mopey one who nearly sits on his hat, fiddles with a sharp object, and gets rejected: Sam

The cowboy gun nut whose response to rejection is to immediately try and get all of his buddies wasted: Dean

The one with no discernible personality (yet?) who apparently decided the best way to propose was to just fucking make out with a woman: Cas

104 notes - Posted May 25, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

ASoiaF Fic Writing Tools

Writing fanfic for A Song of Ice and Fire? Have I got some useful tools for you!

Fanmade timeline of book events; also includes distances and travel times

ASearchOfIceandFire allows you to search the full text of the books, by book and/or POV

Race For The Iron Throne has useful chapter recaps with historical analysis for AGOT through most of ASOS

Atlas of Ice and Fire has wonderful fanmade maps and population estimates

Happy writing!!! 💕

213 notes - Posted July 7, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

[closethedoorandcomehere]

Coming Attractions

After finishing up Tyrion's A Clash of Kings episodes with the Battle of the Blackwater, we're going to take a break from our "favorite” misogynistic imp and podcast a number of special episodes, including a deeper dive into some of our absolute favorite non-Jaime/Brienne chapters in A Song of Ice and Fire. (Please note release dates are one day earlier for our wonderful Patreons).

We are also booking guests for these episodes, so if you would like to be on the podcast, please let us know via Tumblr or email us.

2/19 - A Clash of Kings - Tyrion XI 2/26 - A Clash of Kings - Tyrion XII 3/5 - A Clash of Kings - Tyrion XIII 3/12 - A Clash of Kings - Tyrion XIV 3/19 - A Clash of Kings - Tyrion XV 3/26 - Special Episode: Jaime & Brienne in the Endgame 4/2 - Game of Thrones Season Preview #2 4/9 - Our Favorite Chapters: ADwD Jon II 4/16 - Our Favorite Chapters: ADwD Davos IV 4/23 - Our Favorite Chapters: ASoS Sansa VII 4/30 - Our Favorite Chapters: AGoT Bran III 5/7 - Our Favorite Chapters: AFfC Alayne II 5/14 - Our Favorite Chapters: TBD 5/21 - Special Episode: Ships of Ice and Fire

[istumpysk]

Favourite Jon x Sansa Endgame Foreshadowing

Another day of quarantine, and I’m back on my Jonsa bullshit.

Got bored and decided to gather and rank my favourite Jon x Sansa book foreshadowing. Decided to leave parallels, chapter orders, and when they think of each other out of it. Just the good old juicy foreshadowing. The hidden text within the text.

Important to note, I discovered... none of these. I’m just a regular consumer of much smarter people. If you’re bored and want to read more, I went ahead and linked some of my favourite metas to accompany most entries.

If you have an interesting meta or think piece to share regarding any of the text, feel free to link and I’ll add.

21. Dragonflies

Another dragonfly was moving across the water, or perhaps it was the same one. What shall it be, Dunk? he asked himself. Dragonflies or dragons? – The Hedge Knight

Jenny of Oldstones and the Prince of Dragonflies (@butterflies-dragons)

20. A Tale of Two Vals

Then Ghost emerged from between two trees, with Val beside him. They look as though they belong together. Val was clad all in white; white woolen breeches tucked into high boots of bleached white leather, white bearskin cloak pinned at the shoulder with a carved weirwood face, white tunic with bone fastenings. Her breath was white as well... but her eyes were blue, her long braid the color of dark honey, her cheeks flushed red from the cold. It had been a long while since Jon Snow had seen a sight so lovely. – ADWD, Jon XI

Beyond, the haunted forest waited, dark and silent. The light of the half-moon turned Val's honey-blond hair a pale silver and left her cheeks as white as snow. She took a deep breath. "The air tastes sweet." "My tongue is too numb to tell. All I can taste is cold." – ADWD, Jon VIII

"OH, SWEET SHE WAS, AND PURE, AND FAIR! THE MAID WITH HONEY IN HER HAIR!" "You will love Highgarden as I do, I know it." Margaery brushed back a loose strand of Sansa's hair. – ASOS, Sansa I

Ser Jorah spent most of his waking hours pacing the forecastle or leaning on the rail, gazing out to sea. Looking for his silver queen. Looking for Daenerys, willing the ship to sail faster. – ADWD, Tyrion VIII

Val: A Subversion of BATB in Jon’s arc? (@lostlittlesatellites)

19. Snow & Stone

A song so sweet and sad it will melt even your frozen heart. – ASOS, Sansa VII

Instead, he blamed Jon Snow and wondered when Jon's heart had turned to stone. – AFFC, Samwell III

18. Cloaked

What was the name of that bastard he fathered?" Catelyn took a step backward. "Brienne." "No, that wasn't it." Jaime Lannister upended the flagon. A trickle ran down onto his face, bright as blood. "Snow, that was the one. Such a white name... like the pretty cloaks they give us in the Kingsguard when we swear our pretty oaths."  – ACOK, Catelyn VII

Sandor Clegane unfastened his cloak and tossed it at her. Sansa clutched it against her chest, fists bunched hard in the white wool. – ACOK, Sansa II

When she crawled out of bed, long moments later, she was alone. She found his cloak on the floor, twisted up tight, the white wool stained by blood and fire. The sky outside was darker by then, with only a few pale green ghosts dancing against the stars. A chill wind was blowing, banging the shutters. Sansa was cold. She shook out the torn cloak and huddled beneath it on the floor, shivering. – ACOK, Sansa VII

17. Bastards, Heirs & Two Sisters

His sisters Arya and Sansa would marry the heirs of other great houses and go south as mistress of castles of their own. But what place could a bastard hope to earn? – AGOT, Jon I

Jon / Sansa Reread - Jon I, AGOT (@tacitwhisky)

16. A Hero

Frog-faced Lord Slynt sat at the end of the council table wearing a black velvet doublet and a shiny cloth-of-gold cape, nodding with approval every time the king pronounced a sentence. Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head. But a voice inside her whispered, There are no heroes, and she remembered what Lord Petyr had said to her, here in this very hall. – AGOT, Sansa VI

The smile that Lord Janos Slynt smiled then had all the sweetness of rancid butter. Until Jon said, "Edd, fetch me a block," and unsheathed Longclaw. – ADWD, Jon II

They were inside a long gallery. Along the walls stood empty suits of armor, dark and dusty, their helms crested with rows of scales that continued down their backs. As they hurried past, the taper’s light made the shadows of each scale stretch and twist. The hollow knights are turning into dragons, she thought. – ASOS, Sansa V

Sansa’s Hero (@theusurpersdog)

15. A Ghost Wolf

All around was empty air and sky, the ground falling away sharply to either side. There was ice underfoot, and broken stones just waiting to turn an ankle, and the wind was howling fiercely. It sounds like a wolf, thought Sansa. A ghost wolf, big as mountains. – AFFC, Alayne II

Off in the distance, a wolf howled. The sound made her feel sad and lonely, but no less hungry. – ADWD, Daenerys X

Of Ghostly Silences, Bats, Brimstone and a Ghost Wolf, Big as Mountains. (@stormcloudrising)

14. Ser Waymar 

Ser Waymar Royce was the youngest son of an ancient house with too many heirs. He was a handsome youth of eighteen, grey-eyed and graceful and slender as a knife. – AGOT, Prologue

Jon's eyes were a grey so dark they seemed almost black, but there was little they did not see. He was of an age with Robb, but they did not look alike. Jon was slender where Robb was muscular, dark where Robb was fair, graceful and quick where his half brother was strong and fast. – AGOT, Bran I

She had fallen wildly in love with Ser Waymar, she remembered dimly, but that was a lifetime ago, when she was a stupid little girl. – AFFC, Alayne I

About Sansa’s first crush and her taste in men (@butterflies-dragons)

Jon and Waymar Royce (@theusurpersdog)

(🎨 Waymar Royce by Andantonius / Jon Snow by Michael Komarck)

13. You Know Nothing

Lately, though, he was noticing some other things. When she grinned, the crooked teeth didn't seem to matter. And maybe her eyes were too far apart, but they were a pretty blue-grey color, and lively as any eyes he knew. Sometimes she sang in a low husky voice that stirred him. And sometimes by the cookfire when she sat hugging her knees with the flames waking echoes in her red hair, and looked at him, just smiling... well, that stirred some things as well. – ASOS, Jon II

Ygritte punched his arm. "You know nothing, Jon Snow. I'm half a fish, I'll have you know." – ASOS, Jon V

Of Sansa, brushing out Lady's coat and singing to herself. You know nothing, Jon Snow. – ADWD, Jon XIII

When Jon and Sansa think about each other (@fortunatelylori)

The Thing About Redheads (@theusurpersdogs)

Of Sansa, brushing out Lady’s coat and signing to herself. (@jonsasource)

12. The Blood of Winterfell

He was the blood of Winterfell, a man of the Night's Watch. – ASOS, Jon VI

I am not your daughter, she thought. I am Sansa Stark, Lord Eddard's daughter and Lady Catelyn's, the blood of Winterfell. – AFFC, Sansa I

The Blood of Winterfell (@nattyslove22)

Restoring Winterfell (@sxpiosexualx)

So long as those remained, Winterfell remained. (@butterflies-dragons)

11. Glory to your Betrothed

"Glory to your betrothed," Ser Arys answered at once. "See how it flames across the sky today on His Grace's name day, as if the gods themselves had raised a banner in his honor. The smallfolk have named it King Joffrey's Comet."

Doubtless that was what they told Joffrey; Sansa was not so sure. "I've heard servants calling it the Dragon's Tail."

"King Joffrey sits where Aegon the Dragon once sat, in the castle built by his son," Ser Arys said. "He is the dragon's heir—and crimson is the color of House Lannister, another sign. This comet is sent to herald Joffrey's ascent to the throne, I have no doubt. It means that he will triumph over his enemies." – ACOK, Sansa I

Sansa Stark: A Wolf with Dragon Wings (@butterflies-dragons)

10. Treason for Love

"Three?" She did not understand.

...three heads has the dragon...the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air....mother of dragons...child of storm...The whispers became a swirling song....three fires must you light...one for life and one for death and one to love...Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt...three mounts must you ride...one to bed and one to dread and one to love...The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath....three treasons will you know...once for blood and once for gold and once for love... – ACOK, Daenerys IV

The three treasons: all by one person? (@rose-of-red-lake)

9. Winterfell’s Winter Rose

"The Stark in Winterfell wanted Bael's head, but never could take him, and the taste o' failure galled him. One day in his bitterness he called Bael a craven who preyed only on the weak. When word o' that got back, Bael vowed to teach the lord a lesson. So he scaled the Wall, skipped down the kingsroad, and walked into Winterfell one winter's night with harp in hand, naming himself Sygerrik of Skagos. Sygerrik means 'deceiver' in the Old Tongue, that the First Men spoke, and the giants still speak.

"North or south, singers always find a ready welcome, so Bael ate at Lord Stark's own table, and played for the lord in his high seat until half the night was gone. The old songs he played, and new ones he'd made himself, and he played and sang so well that when he was done, the lord offered to let him name his own reward. 'All I ask is a flower,' Bael answered, 'the fairest flower that blooms in the gardens o' Winterfell.'"

"Now as it happened the winter roses had only then come into bloom, and no flower is so rare nor precious. So the Stark sent to his glass gardens and commanded that the most beautiful o' the winter roses be plucked for the singer's payment. And so it was done. But when morning come, the singer had vanished... and so had Lord Brandon's maiden daughter. Her bed they found empty, but for the pale blue rose that Bael had left on the pillow where her head had lain." ...

"No. They had been in Winterfell all the time, hiding with the dead beneath the castle. The maid loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son, the song says... though if truth be told, all the maids love Bael in them songs he wrote. Be that as it may, what's certain is that Bael left the child in payment for the rose he'd plucked unasked, and that the boy grew to be the next Lord Stark. So there it is—you have Bael's blood in you, same as me." – ACOK, Jon VI

To the other maidens he had given white roses, but the one he plucked for her was red. – AGOT, Sansa II

"I will not have the rose and the direwolf in bed together," declared Lord Tywin. – ASOS, Tyrion III 👀

"I am composing a new song, you should know. A song so sweet and sad it will melt even your frozen heart. 'The Roadside Rose,' I mean to call it. About a baseborn girl so beautiful she bewitched every man who laid eyes upon her." – ASOS, Sansa VII

Sansa Stark: A Winter Rose? (@lostlittlesatellites)

8. Prince Aemon

"Sweet one," her father said gently, "listen to me. When you're old enough, I will make you a match with a high lord who's worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong. This match with Joffrey was a terrible mistake. That boy is no Prince Aemon, you must believe me." – AGOT, Sansa III

They were not little boys when they fought, but knights and mighty heroes. "I'm Prince Aemon the Dragonknight," Jon would call out, and Robb would shout back, "Well, I'm Florian the Fool." – ASOS, Jon XII

Jon Snow is Aemon Targaryen (@thelawyerthatwaspromised)

7. The Stark Girl

Dany pulled the lion pelt tighter about her shoulders. "Viserys said once that it was my fault, for being born too late." She had denied it hotly, she remembered, going so far as to tell Viserys that it was his fault for not being born a girl. He beat her cruelly for that insolence. "If I had been born more timely, he said, Rhaegar would have married me instead of Elia, and it would all have come out different. If Rhaegar had been happy in his wife, he would not have needed the Stark girl." – ASOS, Daenerys IV 👀

Red over silver. (@butterflies-dragons)

(🎨 Gif from @athimbleful​)

6. Bed Your Sister

"It wasn't Longspear, then?" Jon was relieved. He liked Longspear, with his homely face and friendly ways.

She punched him. "That's vile. Would you bed your sister?"

"Longspear's not your brother." – ASOS, Jon III

Sweet sister or little sister? (@sherlokiness​)

Is Jon even a brother? (@rose-of-red-lake)

(🎨 Gif from @c-sand​)

5. Marry Your Cousin

"I... I am married, my lady."

"Yes, but soon a widow. Be glad the Imp preferred his whores. It would not be fitting for my son to take that dwarf's leavings, but as he never touched you... How would you like to marry your cousin, the Lord Robert?"

The thought made Sansa weary. All she knew of Robert Arryn was that he was a little boy, and sickly. It is not me she wants her son to marry, it is my claim. No one will ever marry me for love. – ASOS, Sansa VI

Why Sansa is Still Likely to Marry Jon Snow (@lupinusalbus)

(🎨 Gif from @c-sand​)

4. Lover’s Kisses

Drifting snowflakes brushed her face as light as lover's kisses, and melted on her cheeks. At the center of the garden, beside the statue of the weeping woman that lay broken and half-buried on the ground, she turned her face up to the sky and closed her eyes. She could feel the snow on her lashes, taste it on her lips. It was the taste of Winterfell. The taste of innocence. The taste of dreams. – ASOS, Sansa VII

"And you are Ned Stark's bastard, the Snow of Winterfell." - ASOS, Jon I

Snow: Lover’s Kisses (@lostlittlesatellites)

(🎨 Gif from @divinespairings​)

3. Maiden & Warrior

The Maiden lay athwart the Warrior, her arms widespread as if to embrace him. The Mother seemed almost to shudder as the flames came licking up her face. A longsword had been thrust through her heart, and its leather grip was alive with flame. The Father was on the bottom, the first to fall. Davos watched the hand of the Stranger writhe and curl as the fingers blackened and fell away one by one, reduced to so much glowing charcoal. ... The head fell off the Smith with a puff of ash and embers. – ACOK, Davos I

The Maiden and the Warrior  (@branwendaughterofllyr)

(🎨 Lady Stoneheart by Inna Vjuzhanina)

2. Ashford Champions

Lord Ashford was staging this tourney to celebrate his daughter's thirteenth nameday. The fair maid would sit by her father's side as the reigning Queen of Love and Beauty. Five champions wearing her favors would defend her. All others must perforce be challengers, but any man who could defeat one of the champions would take his place and stand as a champion himself, until such time as another challenger unseated him. – The Hedge Knight

One point (plus some extra ones) on the Ashford theory and Jonsa (@occupy-venus)

1. Jonnel Stark + Sansa Stark 👀

Stark Family Lineage (@occupyvenus)

Nah, I’m still not over this family tree, and I never will be. It’s raw predictive energy is too powerful for any foe to overcome. Forever grateful to Jonnel and Sansa, and the whole community.

[jackoshadows]

I would like to address some posts I saw that talk about misogynistic double standards when it comes to Jon and Sansa regarding bullying - that Sansa gets criticized and taken to task for bullying Arya but Jon gets a pass for bullying fellow recruits at the Night’s Watch.

First of all, who is giving Jon a pass for bullying Grenn and the others? Are there like 5 page essays out there writing about POV traps and how Grenn was unfairly jealous of Jon and hence deserving of being bullied, how it’s just new recruits being new recruits and Jon did nothing wrong etc.?

Jon’s my favorite character, and I will outright state it - Jon bullied the other recruits at the NW because he was a privileged brat. He was wrong to do it. The text pretty much calls him a bully and unlike some stans, no one is twisting those words to argue otherwise.

And I have never seen anyone defend Jon’s actions there. In fact I have seen these same Sansa stans use Jon’s actions at the Wall to justify Catelyn’s emotional abuse of a child. That even though Jon is a bastard, he was better off than other NW recruits and hence should shut up and stop whining about Catelyn. That his treatment by Catelyn was okay because he had it better than most others in Westeros.

Jon’s actions at the wall are just not mentioned often because it’s accepted that he did wrong. The reason why Sansa’s bullying is often brought up is because Sansa stans write essays about how Sansa never bullied or mocked Arya, how it was just sibling being siblings, how it was because Arya was jealous and hated Sansa, how Arya’s wrong and biased POV is meant to trick readers into hating Sansa when Sansa never actually did anything wrong etc. So it’s book readers responding to this whitewashing of Sansa - because one can read the very real effects this bullying had on Arya’s self esteem and self worth.

In fact the only time Jon’s actions are brought up are when Sansa stans bring it up as whataboutism, to point fingers and accuse others of misogyny - even though no one is actually defending Jon Snow.

And you know what? Yeah, Jon was a bully. But he acknowledges that he did wrong, learned and grew from his mistakes. And I love that about Jon.

“No. They hate you because you act like you’re better than they are. They look at you and see a castle-bred bastard who thinks he’s a lordling.” The armorer leaned close. “You’re no lordling. Remember that. You’re a Snow, not a Stark. You’re a bastard and a bully.”

Donal Noye leaned forward, into Jon’s face. “Now think on this, boy. None of these others have ever had a master-at-arms until Ser Alliser. Their fathers were farmers and wagonmen and poachers, smiths and miners and oars on a trading galley. What they know of fighting they learned between decks, in the alleys of Oldtown and Lannisport, in wayside brothels and taverns on the kingsroad. They may have clacked a few sticks together before they came here, but I promise you, not one in twenty was ever rich enough to own a real sword.” His look was grim. “So how do you like the taste of your victories now, Lord Snow?”

“Don’t call me that!” Jon said sharply, but the force had gone out of his anger. Suddenly he felt ashamed and guilty. “I never... I didn’t think...” - Jon, AGoT

Jon noticed Grenn a few feet away. A thick woolen bandage was wrapped around one hand. He looked anxious and uncomfortable, not menacing at al . Jon went to him. Grenn edged backward and put up his hands. “Stay away from me now, you bastard.” Jon smiled at him. “I’m sorry about your wrist. Robb used the same move on me once, only with a wooden blade. It hurt like seven hells, but yours must be worse. Look, if you want, I can show you how to defend that.” - Jon, AGoT

Dareon gave him a look. “The stewards are fine for the likes of you and me, Sam, but not for Lord Snow.”

I never asked for this,” he said stubbornly.

“None of us are here for asking,” Sam reminded him.

And suddenly Jon Snow was ashamed.

Craven or not, Samwell Tarly had found the courage to accept his fate like a man. On the Wall, a man gets only what he earns, Benjen Stark had said the last night Jon had seen him alive. You’re no ranger, Jon, only a green boy with the smell of summer still on you. He’d heard it said that bastards grow up faster than other children; on the Wall, you grew up or you died. Jon let out a deep sigh. “You have the right of it. I was acting the boy... - Jon, AGoT

Jon Snow being hurt by words calling his mother a whore and later making Satin Flowers,a  prostitute, his steward despite opposition.

“Words won’t make your mother a whore. She was what she was, and nothing Toad says can change that. You know, we have men on the Wall whose mothers were whores.” Not my mother, Jon thought stubbornly. He knew nothing of his mother; Eddard Stark would not talk of her. Yet he dreamed of her at times, so often that he could almost see her face. In his dreams, she was beautiful, and highborn, and her eyes were kind. - Jon, AGoT

Jon is constantly getting his worldviews and his privilege challenged at the wall. He is confronted by some ugly truths about himself and he then takes that advice and changes for the better. It’s the same when he goes among the Wildlings and recognizes that they too are human beings deserving of being on the other side of the wall. We get this gem from him:

“We look up at the same stars and see such different things.”- Jon, ASoS

That’s the difference between how Jon and Sansa are treated in book one. When Jon acts bratty and selfish, other characters call him out on his actions, he acknowledges this, apologizes and makes up for it.

With Sansa, on the other hand, we don’t really see anyone taking her to task over her behavior. Quite the opposite. Catelyn and the Septa only encourage it. Ned ‘both sides’ the issue, often talking to Arya about how she should get along with Sansa and behave like sisters. We never see him giving those same talks to Sansa.

Which is weird because most parents would talk to their elder kids to bring about peace in sibling disputes. But in this case, Ned keeps reasoning with his younger daughter instead of his elder one. Probably because everyone thinks that Sansa is the good girl and Arya is the problematic, unruly one.

And because she is never reprimanded over her behavior, Sansa continues to be a spoiled and selfish brat right till Ned is executed at the end of the first book.

Sansa does become more empathetic in the later books after she becomes sadistic Joffrey’s political prisoner and she tries to help where she can. But while GRRM said this about her:

Sansa was the least sympathetic of the Starks in the first book; she has become more sympathetic, partly because she comes to accept responsibility for her part in her father's death.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html?tag=westeros-21&ie=UTF8&docId=49161

I don’t think I have actually read Sansa showing true remorse or regret for tattling Ned’s plans to Cersei. Or even feeling bad about how she treated Arya. As late as ASoS she thinks of her dead sister as being unsatisfactory compared to beautiful, graceful Margaery Tyrell. In the Vale, she pretends to be a bastard and yet never once recalls the bastard brother she looked down on.

There is a lot of self pity in Sansa’s POV chapters and she reprimands herself for being naive and stupid. But she never acknowledges the way she treated Arya, the Trident incident and Mycah, betraying her family etc. She does reflect at one point on how she wrongly trusted the Lannisters and she would never do that again.

Other than that there is very little introspection in Sansa’s POV chapters. Jon feels guilt, Arya feels guilt, Dany feels guilt, even Catelyn feels a twinge of regret and guilt about her treatment of Jon after meeting Mya Stone. But this is something I find lacking in Sansa’s POV chapters.

But when readers point this out, we are labelled misogynistic haters who just hate Sansa and want her to suffer, and how Sansa has nothing to apologize for, she did nothing wrong, she’s flawless and blameless of everything.

I am hoping we get acknowledgement, regret and apologies from Sansa when the older, wiser sisters meet again and resolve their issues. There is nothing wrong in apologizing for bad behavior. Everyone does it. It does not make one a super villain. It would go a long way towards humanizing Sansa and making her more likeable, in my opinion.

So anyways this turned into an essay, but yes, Jon Snow was a bully in AGoT when he went to the wall and beat up some new recruits. There is no defense of that behavior and I am glad that Donal Noye gave him a good talking to and set him straight about his privilege.